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View Full Version : Down 1 with 10 seconds, whose hands would you like the ball in?



McKeyFan
02-13-2013, 03:44 PM
.

Mackey_Rose
02-13-2013, 03:47 PM
Pick and roll with Paul George and David West.

No iso's.

yoadknux
02-13-2013, 03:49 PM
Generally West, if we can't get him the ball and we need someone to score off the dribble then Hill or George, if it's after a timeout with a play that involves screens and a spot up shot then Danny

rock747
02-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Where's Pendergraph option?

Goyle
02-13-2013, 03:51 PM
Hill/West pick and pop.

Mr_Smith
02-13-2013, 04:09 PM
Pick and roll with David West and George Hill

able
02-13-2013, 04:10 PM
Danny Granger

Unclebuck
02-13-2013, 04:11 PM
Can I cop out and say it depends on the matchups, depends on who is hot?

OK, I like pick and rolls with George Hill and West or Paul George and West.

I am not against an iso with Paul George, although I don't like an iso where he hold the ball to start. I would rather do a little misdirection first and get Paul the ball on the move and let him go to work against a defense that isn't set.

Also fine with getting the ball to West at either elbow and letting him go to work - but again I would rather a little misdirection first so the defense can't lock in as easily.

Roy isn't a primary option at this point - unless he csn get the ball deep in the lane, but even then he tends to miss very makable shots. If he is in the game in those situations he is there to maybe get a putback.

Lance? I wouldn't have him a primary option right now either. Not yet

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 04:14 PM
Pick and roll with Paul George and David West.

No iso's.

Agreed. I like a lot of what we have been doing offensively but I don't like Vogel's theory that Paul and West don't create mis matches. They are your two best offensive players they should always create mismatches.

CableKC
02-13-2013, 04:19 PM
Can I cop out and say it depends on the matchups, depends on who is hot?

OK, I like pick and rolls with George Hill and West or Paul George and West.

I am not against an iso with Paul George, although I don't like an iso where he hold the ball to start. I would rather do a little misdirection first and get Paul the ball on the move and let him go to work against a defense that isn't set.

Also fine with getting the ball to West at either elbow and letting him go to work - but again I would rather a little misdirection first so the defense can't lock in as easily.

Roy isn't a primary option at this point - unless he csn get the ball deep in the lane, but even then he tends to miss very makable shots. If he is in the game in those situations he is there to maybe get a putback.

Lance? I wouldn't have him a primary option right now either. Not yet
Isn't it refreshing to have up to 4 decent to solid "last minute scoring" options to choose from?

I like that we don't have to rely on Granger being the only scoring option at the end of a game. Assuming all things are equal.....I'd easily put GH and West ahead of Granger when it comes to getting a crunch time score when down by 1.

Since86
02-13-2013, 04:19 PM
I voted for West, but really I think the PnR with PG/West is the option, with the first option getting the ball to David.


Agreed. I like a lot of what we have been doing offensively but I don't like Vogel's theory that Paul and West don't create mis matches. They are your two best offensive players they should always create mismatches.

Uh yeah. The Lakers were running PnR's with Kobe handling the ball and getting screened by Nash.

There are very few teams that start 4s, or would have 4s in that situation, that wouldn't be a good option to run against a PG/West PnR.

imawhat
02-13-2013, 04:22 PM
Right now in this order:

West
Hill
Granger
Lance

ChicagoJ
02-13-2013, 04:23 PM
the ball in his hands? Hill.

And after the pick and roll or pop, most likely he'll pass the ball to West.

Unless of course the defense parts like the red sea, the George Hill can take it to the rim or use the floater.

But he's the guy I want handling the ball and making the decision about who on the court to distribute it to.

Dr. Awesome
02-13-2013, 04:24 PM
I voted Lance, he can beat his man off the dribble and pass better than anyone else on the team. I'd love to see him force the defense to collapse then kick it to West for a short jumper.

BillS
02-13-2013, 04:30 PM
I want a West iso so vnzla81 can have an apoplectic fit. :zip:

Unclebuck
02-13-2013, 04:39 PM
If I had to pick one player to take the last second shot - assuming the shot selection is equal. Meaning sure I would rather Roy get a dunk than West get a closely guarded 20 ft shot. I want West to take the last shot Except when he plays only seeing out of one eye.

Hicks
02-13-2013, 04:47 PM
Pick and roll is the real answer, but I voted assuming an isolation play, so I chose David West. He can shoot and he can put the ball on the floor to get closer to the hoop.

vnzla81
02-13-2013, 04:49 PM
Paul George is the man he should have the ball at the end of the game with 10 seconds left, a West Iso is not a good play with 10 seconds left he needs more time for that.

So with 10 second left my order goes like this:

Paul George (the new face of the Pacers), Hill and West.

vnzla81
02-13-2013, 04:49 PM
I want a West iso so vnzla81 can have an apoplectic fit. :zip:

:angry:

righteouscool
02-13-2013, 04:54 PM
If you want Paul to be an elite player you need to give him these shots. He's been fairly clutch lately, but mostly off of designed plays. But I think that West should receive the ball for now. PG should do the last second shots at the end of the first half to get a feel for them and start taking them next year.

Slick Pinkham
02-13-2013, 05:10 PM
I like it that since the very first reply, and almost constantly after, people on here have focused on what sort of play we'd want to see run, as opposed to what sort of hero-ball isolation situation we'd prefer to be stuck with.

The infatuation with the idea of someone needing to be "the man" who will demand the ball and stick the shot, defense be damned, is one that has disturbed me for a long time. Maybe I'm getting old, but hero-ball did not seem to be a prominent game-ending strategy before Jordan. Don't get me wrong, while I hated Jordan as a thorn in our sides, I fully appreciated his status and ability and saw him be a willing passer when the situation called for it (e.g. Paxton). But an unfortunate by-product of his greatness and actually making some hero-ball-like shots was that media and even other fans have drilled it into us that greatness is personified by the hero-ball game-ending play. That play is supposed to be executed by players who really can't pull it off, while we also recognize that even for great semi-Jordan players like Kobe, the hero-ball option is really a low percentage play, if you actually review all of the stats.

Having said that, if it even makes sense, I cast my write-in ballot to pull Reggie out from behind the microphone, have him come off two picks set by Davises, where someone is ready to deliver the pass chest high for the catch-and-shoot.

:)

Midcoasted
02-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Can I pick none of the above? It seems like every player on our team has choked in the clutch this year. Granger was the only somewhat consistent clutch player IMO. George and Lance can still get better, but I think if you just throw the ball to Hill or West down 1 and they are going to take the last shot they are going to lose you the game twice for every one time they will win it for you. Reggie was the opposite of that. Until we find or develop that player we will lose to certain teams in close games more than not because they have better clutch players.

Ace E.Anderson
02-13-2013, 05:31 PM
Danny Granger
George Hill
Paul George.

I had D.West 3rd, but his boneheaded plays late in the 4th of the last two games has left a sour taste in my mouth lol.

BRushWithDeath
02-13-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why Lance is even an option.

Ace E.Anderson
02-13-2013, 05:36 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why Lance is even an option.

He's our favorite new toy!!

In all seriousness, he probably has the best ability to get off a good look be it in the lane or a jump-shot.....

But he also is the least likely to hit the shot, and the most likely to do something silly and/or turn the ball over

Midcoasted
02-13-2013, 05:37 PM
I like it that since the very first reply, and almost constantly after, people on here have focused on what sort of play we'd want to see run, as opposed to what sort of hero-ball isolation situation we'd prefer to be stuck with.

The infatuation with the idea of someone needing to be "the man" who will demand the ball and stick the shot, defense be damned, is one that has disturbed me for a long time. Maybe I'm getting old, but hero-ball did not seem to be a prominent game-ending strategy before Jordan. Don't get me wrong, while I hated Jordan as a thorn in our sides, I fully appreciated his status and ability and saw him be a willing passer when the situation called for it (e.g. Paxton). But an unfortunate by-product of his greatness and actually making some hero-ball-like shots was that media and even other fans have drilled it into us that greatness is personified by the hero-ball game-ending play. That play is supposed to be executed by players who really can't pull it off, while we also recognize that even for great semi-Jordan players like Kobe, the hero-ball option is really a low percentage play, if you actually review all of the stats.

Having said that, if it even makes sense, I cast my write-in ballot to pull Reggie out from behind the microphone, have him come off two picks set by Davises, where someone is ready to deliver the pass chest high for the catch-and-shoot.

:)

But I feel what gets lost in your argument is that Reggie was the best coming off that screen I have ever seen. Rip Hamilton emulated it for years, but he was never as good at it as the chosen one. It was a strategy of his. He wore his defender down all game then at the end he could almost always get an open shot from it.

Maybe people don't want Jordan hero ball as much as they want a guy that can consistently find and make clutch baskets due to solid play over the course of a game. Reggie Miller was that good at what he did. Anyone could have set those screens for him and they would have worked. Not just anyone can consistently get open and make shots in the clutch from that screen like he did. He had one of the highest basketball IQs ever and I think that is a major reason he is in the hall of fame, well aside from being "the best pure shooter of all time."

Pacer Fan
02-13-2013, 05:44 PM
With 10 seconds left, it better be in Hills hands cause all options are available. West shouldn't have the ball with 10 seconds left. And Lance, well...

Midcoasted
02-13-2013, 05:52 PM
Danny Granger
George Hill
Paul George.

I had D.West 3rd, but his boneheaded plays late in the 4th of the last two games has left a sour taste in my mouth lol.

Maybe I'm wrong because my mind forgets many games since I watch them all, but it's like with West if he is going to win you the game it is because he has been abusing his man all game and the Pacers have a decent cushion in the last two minutes. But until he proves otherwise, I can rarely recall him putting the team on his back down 4 and winning us the game.

Pace Maker
02-13-2013, 06:12 PM
Hill has been for the most part, absolute money in the clutch as a Pacer, he has a good jumpshot, able passer, good ballhandling, and most importantly for this scenario, he is a really good improviser and can has the ability to make awkward shots.

OlBlu
02-13-2013, 06:21 PM
.

Kobe Bryant :cool: ...

xIndyFan
02-13-2013, 06:22 PM
Hill/West pick and pop.


Pick and roll with David West and George Hill

This is some form or the other. At least until Danny gets back.

McKeyFan
02-13-2013, 06:33 PM
With 10 seconds left, it better be in Hills hands cause all options are available. West shouldn't have the ball with 10 seconds left. And Lance, well...

I had to decide whether to say with 10 seconds left, 5 seconds, 3 seconds, etc. If I had said 5 or 3 I would want it in West's hands in the post. With ten I lean more toward Hill.

I voted for Lance, just because I am a fanboy. He would certainly not be as good the first few times, but it is my belief he would be better than the rest of them in short order. He sees the floor far better than Hill and his handles are far better than PG. He just needs a little more experience.

And he should be listed as an option. It's not beyond the pale. Vogel has gone to him specifically a few times at the end of games.

vnzla81
02-13-2013, 06:40 PM
Danny Granger

I thought we all knew how that experiment ended.

AesopRockOn
02-13-2013, 06:40 PM
If we're trying to win, we should shoot earlier in the clock and try to pound the boards.

If the outcome is irrelevant, the answer is always Javale McGee.

Pacer Fan
02-13-2013, 06:56 PM
I had to decide whether to say with 10 seconds left, 5 seconds, 3 seconds, etc. If I had said 5 or 3 I would want it in West's hands in the post. With ten I lean more toward Hill.

I voted for Lance, just because I am a fanboy. He would certainly not be as good the first few times, but it is my belief he would be better than the rest of them in short order. He sees the floor far better than Hill and his handles are far better than PG. He just needs a little more experience.

And he should be listed as an option. It's not beyond the pale. Vogel has gone to him specifically a few times at the end of games.

If it's side out with 3 seconds left, I'd have to go with Paul cause primarily his height and more probability of a good look.
If side out with 5 seconds left, I'd have to go with Paul and shoot quick enough for a put back by Hibbert / West.

As for Lance, I don't think he should have that pressure quite yet and I don't know that he is ready. I think there are better options, but I wouldn't hate it if he ended up with the ball cause of him being open. Just wouldn't want to draw the play up for him in time out. He will get there tho. The dude is impressive.

Lance George
02-13-2013, 07:12 PM
Whoa... Mackey_Rose and BRushWithDeath voted differently in the poll. Is this a Pacers Digest first?

SMosley21
02-13-2013, 07:32 PM
I picked Lance. Not the popular option obviously but I think he's the best playmaker on the team (by a landslide). With 10 seconds left and you're only down 1, you're really looking for someone to make a play, not take a contested jumper. I want to see Lance get more of these opportunities in the future. Other than Lance, I think the obvious choice is Hill. I don't like PG trying to iso someone, and I don't really like a PG/West p-n-r.

Sookie
02-13-2013, 07:44 PM
George Hill. And I want him to be looking to set up himself, George, or West.

cgg
02-13-2013, 07:45 PM
why can't I see who voted for what in public polls?

Lance George
02-13-2013, 07:55 PM
why can't I see who voted for what in public polls?

http://i46.tinypic.com/20usf0w.png

J7F
02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
Maybe I'm wrong because my mind forgets many games since I watch them all, but it's like with West if he is going to win you the game it is because he has been abusing his man all game and the Pacers have a decent cushion in the last two minutes. But until he proves otherwise, I can rarely recall him putting the team on his back down 4 and winning us the game.

There was a game towards the beginning of the season where he single handedly brought us back from a deficit in the 4th which may have included a game winner? It was maybe one of the first 3-4 games? Can someone help me out with facts?

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 10:03 PM
I think West and PG tie for me

1984
02-13-2013, 10:58 PM
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/David+West+Toronto+Raptors+v+Indiana+Pacers+r8gE5y VrWgDl.jpg

BlueNGold
02-13-2013, 10:59 PM
Nice picture. But didn't that guy choke the last two losses prior to getting benched?

I am of course just kidding. West would be my second option. Hill would be the first. George Hill doesn't have ice water in his veins. it's pure ice.

Frostwolf
02-13-2013, 11:06 PM
I thought we all knew how that experiment ended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVZUUtdE28Q

also


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_IbmX_iKSM

BornReady
02-13-2013, 11:10 PM
Reggie Millerrrrrr

vnzla81
02-13-2013, 11:14 PM
also




<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0vL552vlIpk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Anybody can make a point with a video.

Ace E.Anderson
02-14-2013, 03:45 AM
There was a game towards the beginning of the season where he single handedly brought us back from a deficit in the 4th which may have included a game winner? It was maybe one of the first 3-4 games? Can someone help me out with facts?

It was the Toronto game where he feasted on Bargnani in the 4th, and G.Hill won it with a last second fg

15th parallel
02-14-2013, 04:58 AM
It really is variable at this point as almost anybody can score given the range. Of course for me the ball must first be handled by our point guard (in which case is Hill). Then from then on it's all about how the play will be executed to give the best look at the basket. Granger can spot up for a shot, Hill can drive and make a floater, West can space himself with his strength and make a midrange J, and George can hit from anywhere. Even Hibbert can be left open and just lay it in uncontested (this season I don't trust it that much but he has done it in LA I think twice in his career). I appreciate greatly executed plays at the end of the game rather than hero-ball style ala Kobe (which disgusts me btw regardless of success rate). And before somebody says Reggie plays hero ball, his attempts are results of great execution and rotation freeing himself with his defender rather than him demanding the ball, drain the clock because he's isolated and heave some contested, ugly shot from afar.

Coopdog23
02-14-2013, 10:18 AM
Don't know why PG isn't getting more love. He can hit the shots in the clutch. But he will be guarded closer by the defense because he is the best player on the Pacers.

owl
02-14-2013, 10:22 AM
I am not against an iso with Paul George, although I don't like an iso where he hold the ball to start. I would rather do a little misdirection first and get Paul the ball on the move and let him go to work against a defense that isn't set.



This I believe is the way to go. Of all the players listed in the poll PG is the only one who has the size and athletic ability to at least get a shot off. The other players are too slow or too short.

Kid Minneapolis
02-14-2013, 10:58 AM
George Hill. Screening off West. And that gives us three options --- Hill attacks the rim (he's very good at), he pulls up in the lane for that deadly floater... or he passes back to an open West for the mid-range dagger. I actually prefer the last shot to be George Hill, though. He's our best clutch scorer. If it's a helter skelter play that's broken and someone has to jack up a crazy 3-pointer, I'd rather it be PG, he seems suited for that, but he's not yet at a place where he can be relied upon to ISO and beat his man at the buzzer reliably. Sometimes he does, most often he doesn't. West is a great workhorse go-to guy at ISO plays down the stretch to carry a team, but I don't think I'd place him above GHill for a "last second shot". If all of that breaks down and Hill has to shoot a 3, I still like our chances. Hill has ice in his veins and I think has proven to be the most reliable scorer and/or facilitator in that situation.

McKeyFan
02-14-2013, 11:41 AM
I didn't think the results would be so evenly distributed. Kind of interesting.

KingGeorge
02-14-2013, 12:33 PM
Right now it would be West. I would prefer that it be George, but every time he has the opportunity he doesn't look comfortable and does something stupid. It will just come with time and experience.