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Unclebuck
12-18-2004, 10:08 AM
I don't like this, I don't like this one bit. Shaq and Mourning together

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1103350277235940.xml

Heat's on for Mourning
Traded Nets center appears to be headed for Miami
Saturday, December 18, 2004
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff
MEMPHIS, Tenn. -- As it turns out, Alonzo Mourning may be getting exactly what he wants -- a chance to play for a ring, in a comfortable environment.

Though it wasn't confirmed by any of the principals, an Eastern Conference general manager said last night that the former Nets center -- traded to Toronto in the Vince Carter deal yesterday -- is going to be redirected to the Miami Heat, the team he put on the map through the first 12 years of his career.


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It was unclear if Mourning would receive a buyout from Toronto and then join Miami as a free agent, or if he would be moved in a follow-up trade for a Heat player who earns something in the neighborhood of Mourning's $5.4 million salary.

The first trade, both the Nets and Raptors said, was even made on the condition that Mourning's physical would be waived.

"We did this trade understanding that his medical condition may mean he never plays for us," Toronto GM Rob Babcock said. "We would do this trade regardless of whether he was in it or not. He was in it to try and balance the trade out and he's a great player, and it's our feeling that if he doesn't play for us it still is a great trade. If he does play for us, then it's a huge bonus."

But nobody expects that to happen. Not even the guy who traded Mourning.

"That was one of the things talked about during the negotiations," Rod Thorn said of waiving the physical requirement. "There's a chance he might not want to go there. But this trade is not contingent on whether he wants to go there."

Mourning, who had sought a buyout from the Nets during the preseason so that he could pursue another job with a contender, probably will negotiate his release from Toronto shortly. Otherwise, Lawrence Frank's remarks about their conversation are nonsensical.

"Alonzo was very appreciative," the coach said, more than once, without elaboration -- probably because Mourning had a deal in place to join forces with Shaquille O'Neal.

And while Frank appreciated the center's extraordinary commitment to the game, management was happy to be rid of him. One front office member was blunt: "He's Toronto's headache now," he said.

And Thorn, who gave Mourning a $22.6 million contract prior to the 2003-04 season -- only to have him play just 30 games in two seasons -- sounded relieved.

"With Alonzo, it just didn't work out," the team president said. "He wanted to be elsewhere. He had some good moments for us this year ... but he just wasn't happy here, and he obviously wanted to be someplace else. And now he gets that opportunity. I want to wish him well."

The Nets were actually more upset, however, with the loss of Eric Williams, who became indispensable as their starting forward this season. And Williams, who had signed a three-year deal to play in his native state, was crushed when informed of the deal in mid-afternoon, because he'll be separated from his 9-year-old son.

"I'm the one guy who loves New Jersey -- I had waited my whole career for this," said Williams, who watched the Nets' game against the Grizzlies as a spectator last night because he didn't want to sit around the team's hotel.

"It was the same time last year, going from Boston to Cleveland. And now I'm leaving the country. I really thought I had stability, you know? At least for three years, anyway. But that's the business, I guess. I'm not bigger than the game."

Ragnar
12-18-2004, 10:25 AM
crap

MSA2CF
12-18-2004, 10:29 AM
I don't give a darn.

We shall overcome.

sweabs
12-18-2004, 10:40 AM
"He's Toronto's headache now," he said.

And Vince Carter is now yours.

Eindar
12-18-2004, 10:50 AM
Even without Mourning in this deal, the Raps SCREWED the Nets. Even if those draft picks are near the end of the first round (more likely to be mid-1st), it's a hefty price for an aging, injury-prone player who's stats are on the decline, doesn't make his teammates better, and has had issues meshing with other players for almost his entire career. The only way this works out for the Nets is if they know Vince has been sandbagging to try to get the hell out of Canada. Meanwhile, the Raps have set themselves up nicely to compete in the playoffs in 2-4 years, as long as they have good drafts and don't do anything stupid.

EDIT: On-topic, however, it makes the Heat quite a bit better if they get Mourning for free, but in reality, this hurts a competitor like the Pistons more than it does us. The Pistons don't really have a lot of depth at Center, so Mourning will chew up Campbell and Coleman, especially when you factor in the foul trouble Shaq usually causes. However, we can throw O'Neal, Pollard, or even Harrison up against him and feel like we're not losing any ground.

FiestyFosterFanatic
12-18-2004, 10:58 AM
I hope Mourning and Shaq go down around the same time. Then who plays center?

Outlaw
12-18-2004, 11:16 AM
The way Mourning's health situation has been the last few years, he may not be the factor everyone believes he will.I doubt he can play every game. He already this year had to take some time off to rest.:cool:

Sollozzo
12-18-2004, 11:18 AM
Do you all realize that if Zo goes to Miami, they would have the 1, 2, and 3 picks of the 1992 NBA draft?

Shaq, Mourning, and Lattener

Just to add....in their history, Miami has had Shaq, Zo, Lattener, Jimmy Jackson, Laphonso Ellis, Walt Williams, and Clarence Weatherspoon..........all top 10 picks in the 1992 NBA draft.

JOneal7
12-18-2004, 11:21 AM
lol..that's crazy^^^^^^^^^^
who cares...I'm not afraid of zo...Or Shaq...No worries here.

canyoufeelit
12-18-2004, 11:51 AM
Mourning is just about all done, I wouldnt worry too much about him

Shade
12-18-2004, 11:51 AM
I may have to join Peck on the "Fear Miami" bandwagon if this happens. :uhoh:

Everytime the Pacers seem on the verge of finally winning a championship, something like this (and Sheed, and the suspensions, etc.) seems to happen... :mad:

Shade
12-18-2004, 11:52 AM
Mourning is just about all done, I wouldnt worry too much about him
When healthy, the man can still play. I should know. He's on my fantasy team. ;)

unstandable
12-18-2004, 11:52 AM
EDIT: On-topic, however, it makes the Heat quite a bit better if they get Mourning for free, but in reality, this hurts a competitor like the Pistons more than it does us. The Pistons don't really have a lot of depth at Center, so Mourning will chew up Campbell and Coleman, especially when you factor in the foul trouble Shaq usually causes. However, we can throw O'Neal, Pollard, or even Harrison up against him and feel like we're not losing any ground.

The Pistons have as much big-man depth as anyone in the league - Ben, Rasheed, McDyess, Campbell, Darko and Coleman. And they don't get into foul trouble against Shaq, assuming they continue using the strategy they did against him when he was in LA last year, which is to let him get his baskets and not double-team or foul him. I don't understand why you think the Pacers are in a better position with O'Neal, Foster, Croshere, Pollard and Harrison.

Unclebuck
12-18-2004, 11:53 AM
What if the Heat also get Marshall and Rose. I don't like this one bit

canyoufeelit
12-18-2004, 11:54 AM
When healthy, the man can still play. I should know. He's on my fantasy team. ;)

And I live in the Northeast and watch the crappy Nets on YES. He is very close to being done.

able
12-18-2004, 11:56 AM
So they are buying themselves a contender, they still have to go through a few other teams to get there and the Pacers happen to be one of them, let's just hope we get Ron back together with JO and Jax, with our emerging talent in the Jones' and Hulk, the re-birth of Cro and Polly we will have a luxury problem come playoff time on who to leaved off :D

Kegboy
12-18-2004, 12:24 PM
What if the Heat also get Marshall and Rose. I don't like this one bit
UB, think about it, that's $25M in salary right there ($20M if you assume Zo is bought out and not traded.) Eddie Jones makes $13M. Where do they get the extra money? Miami would have to throw in 3-5 overpaid stiffs like Doleac to get such a deal done, which Toronto won't go for.

Jones + filler can be traded straight up for Rose. Jalen doesn't scare me, even playing next to Shaq. Fred just proved he can guard him, not just on the last possession, but in holding him to 8 points over the last 32 minutes of the game.

Zo ain't Zo anymore. He's not even Zo-lite. He just can't bring it anymore. Even just backing up Shaq for a few minutes is asking a lot. Sure, he's still better than Doleac, but Doleac was never gonna beat you.

Marshall would be a bit disturbing, I grant you. But as I mentioned, looking at Miami's salary structure, I don't see how it could happen. And even he's not as good as he was a couple years ago.

Kstat
12-18-2004, 03:37 PM
The Pistons have as much big-man depth as anyone in the league - Ben, Rasheed, McDyess, Campbell, Darko and Coleman. And they don't get into foul trouble against Shaq, assuming they continue using the strategy they did against him when he was in LA last year, which is to let him get his baskets and not double-team or foul him. I don't understand why you think the Pacers are in a better position with O'Neal, Foster, Croshere, Pollard and Harrison.

Yeah, I dont know where he gets off saying the Pistons have no big man depth :lol:

Especially with Darko coming along VERY well on the defensive end. He's a very big kid, you cant back him down very easily, and he's beginning to block shots in the post.

The Pistons are a power team. They're taylor-made to play Miami, who is only going to get bigger and slower. frankly I'd rather play Miami in round 2 than Indiana. Miami plays right into our hands.

Unclebuck
12-18-2004, 03:40 PM
The question is not whether Zo is anywhere near the player he used to be, nor is the question how good is Zo now, the question is Zo better than Doleac.

Kstat
12-18-2004, 03:44 PM
The question is not whether Zo is anywhere near the player he used to be, nor is the question how good is Zo now, the question is Zo better than Doleac.


Here's my question: can Zo even PLAY PF in the NBA?

He's been the ONLY real big man, everywhere he's gone.

Now he's supposed to float around 15 feet from the basket, and space the floor for Shaq.

Thats not exactly Zo's style.

canyoufeelit
12-18-2004, 03:51 PM
Here's my question: can Zo even PLAY PF in the NBA?

He's been the ONLY real big man, everywhere he's gone.

Now he's supposed to float around 15 feet from the basket, and space the floor for Shaq.

Thats not exactly Zo's style.

Uh, yeah it is. Have you ever watched Mourning play? He goes inside but he scores most of his points on 10-18 footers

Kstat
12-18-2004, 03:54 PM
Uh, yeah it is. Have you ever watched Mourning play? He goes inside but he scores most of his points on 10-18 footers

Uh, if you've ever seen Zo play, he only goes outside HALF the time, and this year he was going inside more and more.


Alonzo isnt going to be comfortable as nothing more than a spot-up shooter.

Also I question his ability to stay with PFs

recap
12-18-2004, 04:36 PM
I remember he used to talk about wanting to play pf sometime in his career. Looks like he will get his wish.

shags
12-18-2004, 05:05 PM
The rumor on the Insider article had Rose and Marshall going to Miami for Eddie Jones, Malik Allen, Wesley Person, and Dorell Wright. The Raptors would probably buy out Mourning and cut either Person or Pape Sow if that happened.

That'd make Miami really tough, with the exception that Wade would have to guard the top flight wing men most nights.

Arcadian
12-18-2004, 05:11 PM
I think Zo will be fine against quicker PFs. If they blow by him Shaq is there. In fact playing PF next to Shaq might be the easiest position to play in the NBA.

Shaq will make Zo better and Zo can take some minutes away from Shaq. Who is Miami's center when Shaq sits down or is in foul trouble? Whoever it is I would much rather it be that person than Zo. Getting Zo now means a fresh Shaq in the playoffs.

stipo
12-18-2004, 05:32 PM
I don't think Zo can play 4 either. Plus, there isn't much left in the tank, and what is left will be used much more quickly running after 4's. :cool:

BrooklynJosh
12-18-2004, 05:32 PM
Do you all realize that if Zo goes to Miami, they would have the 1, 2, and 3 picks of the 1992 NBA draft?

Shaq, Mourning, and Lattener

Just to add....in their history, Miami has had Shaq, Zo, Lattener, Jimmy Jackson, Laphonso Ellis, Walt Williams, and Clarence Weatherspoon..........all top 10 picks in the 1992 NBA draft.

that's pretty insane.

Mourning
12-19-2004, 09:24 AM
Best of luck to Alonzo.

JO_pace
12-19-2004, 10:20 AM
Zo just wants the ring...

and if miami throw in udonis haslim for the raps, then the deal of dealing rose or marshall or whoever may work out...~