View Full Version : Turnovers

12-18-2004, 10:28 AM
Not trying to rap anyone because I think we all agree that Tinsley is a great play maker. Explain to me then - why are we making so many turnover?

12-18-2004, 10:32 AM
Harrison cant catch half the passes is part of the problem. Jermaine, Ron and Jack (who would otherwise be getting the majority of the passes) are out is also part.

Plus Tinsley is very creative, chances are he will know someone is open before they know it. I remember reading an article about John Stockton and they said that they simply got used to knowing that if they managed to get open even for a second to put your hands out because the ball was about to be there. Our guys will get used to that at some point too.

Also I think Tinsley is pretty much having to carry the load right now so he is pushing things a bit.

12-18-2004, 10:35 AM
I'm not so sure I like Tinsley giving up his body so much with his frequent visits to the Land of the Giants. He needs to be in the line-up and he seems to be getting banged up a lot.

12-18-2004, 10:39 AM
Indeed Ragnar, Tins' passes are very fast and timely, for rookies like Hulk and in a certain JJ and all the new players we added and dropped over the time, it is a matter of not being used to move in to free space and have the ball there at the same time you arrive and finally at a speed that is somewhat higher then the average pass :)

Tins is not only (finally) getting recognition on this board, he is also getting it in the press, a Canadian newspaper stated that "Reggie played the Hero, Tinsley was the absolute star of the game"

12-18-2004, 10:41 AM
Yeah I worry about that too ABA. He plays with reckless abandon and that could bite us.

I was thinking last night what is worse, my favorite player who gets himself injured frequently or UB's who gets tossed frequently? I dont know

12-18-2004, 10:48 AM
I don't have a real problem with Tinsley's turnovers especially right now. Besides the dropped passes and players just not used to Tinsley, the Pacers offense is pretty much give the ball to Tinsley, run a series of pick and roles and get the best shot possible. (I know I am over simplifying things, but Tinsley is being asked to do so much that he is going to have turnovers) Without J.O and Ron who creeated most of the offense last season, Tinsley has to do almost all of it now.

The best point guards in the history of the NBA always had a lot of turnovers. A better stat is assist to turnovers ratio. Because if you get the team 10 easy shots per game but commit 3 turnovers. Isn't that better than if you create 3 easy shots per game and commit 1 turnover.

12-18-2004, 10:53 AM
I agree with that to a point but didnt :shudder: Travis Best :shudder: always have a high assist to turnover ratio? I guess there are exceptions to evey rule.

12-18-2004, 10:58 AM
I am also not to worried about Tinsley's TOs right now. For one it seems that he is playing with a different line up every night. This is going to cause there to be some miscommunication and sloppy play on the court. It takes more than just a few games to establish some on the court trust and chemistry. Plus Tinsley himself has been playing hurt and logging a lot more minutes per game than usual. I have also noticed that Tinsley seems to be commiting most of his TOs early in the game. I don't know if he is just forcing things early and then tends to settle down or if it's just getting into the rythm of the game. But he does seem to get it under control when it counts. Take the last two games for example, Tins had 5 TOs in the first half against the Hawks, but committed only two (i believe) the rest of the way. Last night he had three TOs in the first quarter, but ended up with a total of 5.

And if he keeps putting the the numbers he has been in other areas, I will live with a few of these TOs.

12-18-2004, 11:05 AM
I agree with that to a point but didnt :shudder: Travis Best :shudder: always have a high assist to turnover ratio? I guess there are exceptions to evey rule.

Yes he did because he rarely turned the ball over, and I was a huge Best fan, but he rarely created easy offense for anyone like Tinsley now can. There are different type of assists IMO. Some just come because of the offense, but others are created by create point guard play. Creating something out of nothing.

Tinsley must be able to play like this in the playoffs. What I mean is he won't have to create or score as much, but he has to be able to when the game dictates. The best point guards in the history of the NBA know they can score or create a good shot for a teammmate whenever they want, but only do it when the offense breaks down, and that is what happens in the playoffs.

12-18-2004, 11:08 AM
My only concern with Tinsley in the playoffs is that he be healthy.

12-18-2004, 11:33 AM
I wasn't attributing the turnovers to Tinsley. We just seem to be averaging way too many.

12-18-2004, 01:11 PM
Yeah we are but I am not too concerned about that right now. We have a very young and more importantly inexperienced team on the floor right now. James Jones was a 2nd round pick and is basically a rookie this year, Harrison is a rookie, Foster has never been an offensive threat. Combine all that and you are going to increase your turnovers.

What amazes me is that as long as out starting pg plays the whole game we win far more than we lose. I am the biggest Tinsley fan on the planet but I would not have thought the team would work this well without Jermaine. I knew we could do a lot of damage without Reggie or Ron because we have in the past. Yes we have gone without Jermaine here and there in the past but not for this long.

Clearly those two being injured last year against Detroit killed us. Those two healthy and we win a title last year. I guess thats they way the cookie crumbles. The great thing is that once everyone is back we are a better team than we were last year.