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View Full Version : It's amazing how ignorant our city is



boombaby1987
02-10-2013, 10:44 PM
Sorry for another thread like this, but I just thought some of this was so repulsive that it deserved its own thread.

Credit to Sandman21 for pointing this out to me.

https://www.facebook.com/WTHR13/posts/10151333988541144

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 10:55 PM
Some of that is repulsive. Some of it makes a point.

All of those posts are pretty negative and explain very well why BLF isn't packed.

rock747
02-10-2013, 10:55 PM
Wow, a lot of ignorant people there. Those people truly don't know what they're talking about.

cgg
02-10-2013, 10:55 PM
Wow people think downtown Indy is a ghetto? Are they crazy?

PacersHomer
02-10-2013, 10:56 PM
Dumbasses.

Brian
02-10-2013, 10:58 PM
I wouldn't go as far too say "ignorant", Just from talking with others I think many people are of the thought that if the pacers keep this up going into next year more people will support the team.

At this moment everyone I talk to are still leery of this team, not thinking they are "thugs" or anything, but wondering if they have a legitimate shot at the ECF, or the NBA finals.

To many people it took one game to destroy the team, and it will take a couple of great seasons to earn back many of the fans.


Edit- Plus I never go to the facebook comment section for legitimate reasoning.

littlerichard54
02-10-2013, 10:59 PM
Yeah, I get tired of hearing the same ole B.S. excuses from people. In general, Indy is a fair weather sports city. Unfortunately for the Pacers, the Colts were peaking why the Pacers were down. In recent years, Butler, IU, and PU have all made great strides which create competition for $$$.

I personally love the Pacers. I am a basketball fan in general. I unfortunately had to give up my season tix due to my travel schedule with work (regional sales rep. on the road weekly). I still go to 8-10 games per year, watch on TV when in a city that broadcast, and do follow every game on ESPN Gamecast.

That being said, I feel the NBA product is lacking compared to college basketball. I would much rather attend a college game than NBA game. I go to college games and NBA games in the cities I travel to. I will go to local H.S. games in Indy on the weekends on occasion. However, I am a Pacer loyalist....always have been and always will be.

I don't think it is the Pacers that have necessarily soured people on the NBA. I tend to sour on anything that ESPN fawns over.....which makes me despise Boston, LA, the Knicks, and Miami.

Bad timing for the Pacers to hit a rut........Indy is now a football city.

littlerichard54
02-10-2013, 11:00 PM
And downtown is not dangerous. Heck, park in the garage and you don't even have to go outside. The $$$ thing is a complete excuse. I find attending Pacer games to be very reasonable in comparison.

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 11:01 PM
I think many bandwagon fans are simply going to be very difficult to re-attract after the brawl. The team is good but Paul George is not your household name...yet. I think we need to go deeper in the playoffs to make a real impact with attendance. But once that happens, I do believe things will finally change.

cgg
02-10-2013, 11:02 PM
Dave Pritchard (https://www.facebook.com/pritent) It would increase the ticket sales if they televised their away games locally. People would be more aware of when the home games are. And how the team is performing. I'm not going to go to a game when I can't even see one on TV


wtf?

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 11:04 PM
And downtown is not dangerous. Heck, park in the garage and you don't even have to go outside. The $$$ thing is a complete excuse. I find attending Pacer games to be very reasonable in comparison.

I work downtown. Crime has gotten worse. 10 years ago we didn't have the bums on the corner. Now they are all over the place. I was walking down Senate across from the state house the other day...and was approached...not even on the corner. I realize that's not a criminal act but it's an indication of where things are going...and it's not good. Reminds me more of the time I used to work in Detroit.

boombaby1987
02-10-2013, 11:05 PM
I work downtown. Crime has gotten worse. 10 years ago we didn't have the bums on the corner. Now they are all over the place. I was walking down Senate across from the state house the other day...and was approached...not even on the corner. I realize that's not a criminal act but it's an indication of where things are going...and it's not good. Reminds me more of the time I used to work in Detroit.

I am downtown constantly and I disagree.

Is people asking for change a crime?

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 11:06 PM
I am downtown constantly and I disagree.

Is people asking for change a crime?

Actually, when they approach you it is a crime.

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 11:08 PM
I am downtown constantly and I disagree.

Is people asking for change a crime?

You are 18. You don't remember 10 years ago downtown. I am 47 and have worked downtown for a couple decades. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's not as safe downtown at the 90's and we never had bums on the corners like the last 5-7 years.

gummy
02-10-2013, 11:08 PM
Kim Roscoe Sarabyn (https://www.facebook.com/kim.sarabyn) As a teacher, I don't get paid enough to cover the cost of a night to watch overpaid men running up and down a court. Plus many, but not all, are not the role models I was in our lives. Not going to pay for their drugs and attorneys!


:(

An awful lot of thug/gangster talk - more than I expected.

BlueNGold
02-10-2013, 11:11 PM
There are some harsh statements out there. But with SJax, Tinsley, Artest, Rawle Marshall, Shawne Williams, Brandon "head" Rush, David Harrison, etc....you know we earned that rep. The question is what it will take to shake it.

Ace E.Anderson
02-10-2013, 11:12 PM
Even even the team was good in the 90's our attendance was middling. (I forget where I read that, but I do believe it was a post by unclebuck, though I could be wrong)

Indiana is definitely a fair weather state. We were so bad for so long, I just feel it's going to take some time to get the city and the state to come out to a game against the Pelicans on a Tuesday.

I was at the raptors game on Friday, which was reasonably packed. When we lost, I overheard quite a few ppl saying they weren't going to come see this team play again. All because they lost to the raptors lol. I wanted to tell at them and say "WE'VE ONLY LOST HERE 4 TIMES ALL YEAR!!" But it definitely opened my eyes. We HAVE to continue to be dominant at home if we want to improve our attendance more.

Our attendance is up a bit from last year, so hey it's a start.

boombaby1987
02-10-2013, 11:16 PM
You are 18. You don't remember 10 years ago downtown. I am 47 and have worked downtown for a couple decades. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's not as safe downtown at the 90's and we never had bums on the corners like the last 5-7 years.

What exactly about homeless people on corners makes it unsafe?

Pacer Fan
02-10-2013, 11:18 PM
Dave Pritchard (https://www.facebook.com/pritent) It would increase the ticket sales if they televised their away games locally. People would be more aware of when the home games are. And how the team is performing. I'm not going to go to a game when I can't even see one on TV


wtf?
He has a great point. If he can't watch away game on local tv, then what's the point of going to games.

Not sure why you "wtf?" his comment.

Sollozzo
02-10-2013, 11:21 PM
You are 18. You don't remember 10 years ago downtown. I am 47 and have worked downtown for a couple decades. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it's not as safe downtown at the 90's and we never had bums on the corners like the last 5-7 years.

I spend most of my existence downtown. I walk around downtown all the time and never feel unsafe. Most of the people who want money are harmless and will leave you alone if you ignore them. I do have a personal rule that I will never give any of them a cent. A few months ago, this guy on the Circle was pitching this story about how he was stranded and needed money to get back to X city. He was bold and asked for five dollars. I tried not to laugh in his face at the absurd request. I saw him a few weeks later pushing the same story to someone else. Con artist.

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:21 PM
Seriously, these responses are very irritating.


As a teacher, I don't get paid enough to cover the cost of a night to watch overpaid men running up and down a court. Plus many, but not all, are not the role models I was in our lives. Not going to pay for their drugs and attorneys!


The former thugs ruined it for them!


The last time I went to a game there were a bunch of thugs on the team and it was not a pleasant experience, so I have not followed them ever since.]


Who cares about watching spoiled rich ball players.....I would rather spend my time outdoors for real quality time spent.....its time our pacers find a new home.....


Because they lost their good name with the ppl of Indiana..I've talked to a few ppl who lost interest in them after their over-the-top behavior a few years ago.. I think ppl just don't want 2 go c a team that they view as not having integrity. I'm thankful that the Colts raised the standard the way they did..


Because the NBA is full of thugs.


I lost interest when they were in the news all the time for players being arrested or involved in some incident. Poor role models do not deserve fans.


They lost respect from people with the brawl and club shootings


Stupid horrible music and antics. College games don't have all the rap music constantly.


You couldn't GIVE me tickets to go to a Pacer game!


NBA= thugs = yawn.


because i am paying for where they play why shoukd i do more for a bunch of rich thugs


Think the Pacers have worn out their welcome

Very disheartening

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:23 PM
He has a great point. If he can't watch away game on local tv, then what's the point of going to games.

Not sure why you "wtf?" his comment.

Because the games are broadcast locally in Indy... However, the people in Northern Indiana don't even realize Indiana has an NBA team!

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-10-2013, 11:25 PM
I wonder if the attendance is a result of it being harder to follow the Pacers. I mean they use to be on Channel 4 where I lived. But then it went to Fox Sports Midwest. And for 2 years when I was in college I couldn't watch games.

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:26 PM
Do these people not realize that NFL players and NBA players come from the same demographics!!

Anthem
02-10-2013, 11:30 PM
Do these people not realize that NFL players and NBA players come from the same demographics!!
The fundamental difference between the NFL and the NBA: an NFL uniform covers more skin.

littlerichard54
02-10-2013, 11:30 PM
I am not sure how it is now, but when I was at Purdue I couldn't watch most of the games. My first three years we only got Fox Sport Chicago. However, I think it changed towards the end of my run because I was watching the game when the Brawl happened.

Pacer Fan
02-10-2013, 11:31 PM
True story here, kinda related.
This guy in our city looks like he doesn't have much. He will approach about anyone that doesn't know him for change. Change for whatever reason. The guy is a millionaire. No kidding. A co-worker, friend knows him personally for years and knows for a fact he is a millionaire. He says he does it for the fun.

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-10-2013, 11:31 PM
Do these people not realize that NFL players and NBA players come from the same demographics!!

Except for QBs, which are the guys most likely to be idolized by a fanbase. Andrew Luck, Peyton and Eli Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Flacco, Big Ben. Although I do agree the point is stupid.

PacersHomer
02-10-2013, 11:32 PM
Seriously, these responses are very irritating.



Very disheartening

The positive is that racists are not in any demographic for the NBA.

Pacer Fan
02-10-2013, 11:33 PM
The fundamental difference between the NFL and the NBA: an NFL uniform covers more skin.

That's sad.

Pacer Fan
02-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Because the games are broadcast locally in Indy... However, the people in Northern Indiana don't even realize Indiana has an NBA team!

What channel are they shown on?

Goyle
02-10-2013, 11:36 PM
Attendance will pick up as PG grows in popularity. They might not shed the "thug" stigma for a few more years, though.

Here in LA the perception of the Clippers has been changing since Blake arrived, but they're still not taken as serious as they should be.

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:36 PM
The fundamental difference between the NFL and the NBA: an NFL uniform covers more skin.

I just didn't want to say it.

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:37 PM
I am not sure how it is now, but when I was at Purdue I couldn't watch most of the games. My first three years we only got Fox Sport Chicago. However, I think it changed towards the end of my run because I was watching the game when the Brawl happened.

That game was on ESPN. That's how a lot of Indiana is and people wonder why there are so many Bulls fans.

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:38 PM
What channel are they shown on?

FSI... but they're not broadcast through regular television. Are any teams broadcast through regular television anymore?

Pacerfan
02-10-2013, 11:39 PM
These people should really give the team a chance and find out out a little more about the players before labeling them to be "thugs".

This team is not just made up of some of the best basketball players in the world, but also some of the best people. If they took two minutes to find this out they may realize this.

I think these people are just ignorant. You just can't do anything with ignorant people. They will remain ignorant till it is too hard to ignore the Pacers. If the team makes the finals, these are the same people that will be in the stands cheering them on.

But they will have missed the best part of it all: the journey there. Watching the team grow these past few years has been some of the best basketball I have watched. I was too young to watch the 99-00 team grow into the finals team they became (but do remember watching the finals team), but this team is right up there with that finals team with how much I enjoy watching them play.

Pretty sure they will know who the Pacers are after this postseason.

Goyle
02-10-2013, 11:40 PM
FSI... but they're not broadcast through regular television. Are any teams broadcast through regular television anymore?

The Lakers were up until they signed a huge contract with Time Warner Cable this year.

Basketball Fan
02-10-2013, 11:40 PM
Because the games are broadcast locally in Indy... However, the people in Northern Indiana don't even realize Indiana has an NBA team!


That's not true I grew up in Northern Indiana and I knew about the Pacers I rooted for them over the closer and popular Chicago Bulls during the Jordan era... It sucked growing up as a Pacers fan...

Other people knew about the Pacers too.. but like how people in Indy don't care for Notre Dame people up there don't care that much about Indiana/Purdue or any Indy related team except the Colts.

But as far as coverage? Yeah you don't get much up there they focus on the Bulls and their games are either on WGN or CSN Chicago(Comcast)

rock747
02-10-2013, 11:43 PM
That's not true I grew up in Northern Indiana and I knew about the Pacers I rooted for them over the closer and popular Chicago Bulls during the Jordan era... It sucked growing up as a Pacers fan...

Other people knew about the Pacers too.. but like how people in Indy don't care for Notre Dame people up there don't care that much about Indiana/Purdue or any Indy related team except the Colts.

But as far as coverage? Yeah you don't get much up there they focus on the Bulls and their games are either on WGN or CSN Chicago(Comcast)

Sports fans know that the Pacers exists. Besides that? Nope. I grew up in Northern Indiana too. I bought league pass. If I didn't, there would be no way for me to watch a game.

Basketball Fan
02-10-2013, 11:44 PM
I'd go to more games if:

1) I could afford it
2) The games I'd like to go to end up being on days I can't go.

I do catch them on TV whenever possible though

Pacer Fan
02-10-2013, 11:54 PM
FSI... but they're not broadcast through regular television. Are any teams broadcast through regular television anymore?

Well that was the point of the original post that guy left about away games not being on local channel so what's the point of going to the games. Can't keep up with them. Away games used to be on WB4 which was local. FSI is not a local channel. It is a cable channel that one has to pay money for. I know many people that has basic cable and it doesn't include a paid channel like FSI. Therefore, games can't be watched. My father had Directv and he couldn't watch the NBATV game the other night, cause he has like fox sports Midwest and he doesn't have NBATV. Any other game that is FSI, the Midwest one will show it. He lives 30 miles north of Indy.

graphic-er
02-10-2013, 11:59 PM
I think many bandwagon fans are simply going to be very difficult to re-attract after the brawl. The team is good but Paul George is not your household name...yet. I think we need to go deeper in the playoffs to make a real impact with attendance. But once that happens, I do believe things will finally change.

Come on, it wasn't the brawl. Most Pacer fans really supported the team that remainder of the season. It was it was subsequent years with Pacer players getting into gun altercations. We have to stop this mythology that the Brawl of the singular event that brought the team to its knees. Heck infact the brawl just showed how good a team we really had that year.

Sollozzo
02-11-2013, 12:00 AM
Come on, it wasn't the brawl. Most Pacer fans really supported the team that remainder of the season. It was it was subsequent years with Pacer players getting into gun altercations. We have to stop this mythology that the Brawl of the singular event that brought the team to its knees. Heck infact the brawl just showed how good a team we really had that year.

Fans supported the team for the remainder of the brawl season because it was Reggie's final year and people wanted to get one last look at him in person.

BlueNGold
02-11-2013, 12:00 AM
I spend most of my existence downtown. I walk around downtown all the time and never feel unsafe. Most of the people who want money are harmless and will leave you alone if you ignore them. I do have a personal rule that I will never give any of them a cent. A few months ago, this guy on the Circle was pitching this story about how he was stranded and needed money to get back to X city. He was bold and asked for five dollars. I tried not to laugh in his face at the absurd request. I saw him a few weeks later pushing the same story to someone else. Con artist.

The issue with bums is that it's a symptom of a declining society...similar to graffiti or boarded up windows. They go hand in hand with rising crime which is a statistical fact in Indy.

PGisthefuture
02-11-2013, 12:04 AM
There are a lot of stupid people in this state.

Also... I think the fact that they are not broadcast on local TV is a big reason actually. Then again, I don't know how many NBA teams are these days. When the team was on WB4 my grandma would watch every game and now I don't think she could name anybody besides Danny Granger.

Major Cold
02-11-2013, 12:06 AM
Maybe we need to petition the NbA to use helmets or masks or anything that won't show the color of their skin. I usually do not pull the race card, but if the Colts played with no helmet would they be so loyal.

Pacer Fan
02-11-2013, 12:09 AM
There are a lot of stupid people in the US, just look who gets voted in offices and it tells all that needs to be known about people.

Sollozzo
02-11-2013, 12:11 AM
The issue with bums is that it's a symptom of a declining society...similar to graffiti or boarded up windows. They go hand in hand with rising crime which is a statistical fact in Indy.


Was there really a day where downtown Indy didn't have a lot of panhandlers? I always remember seeing them.

graphic-er
02-11-2013, 12:13 AM
The issue with bums is that it's a symptom of a declining society...similar to graffiti or boarded up windows. They go hand in hand with rising crime which is a statistical fact in Indy.

Okay I don't ever recall in the past decade ever hearing some news story about somebody getting mugged, shot, raped, or killed on their way to and from a Pacer game. Except that one guy in Area 55 who got hit by a drunk driver. I think if it happened, the media would have been all over it during the dark ages.

graphic-er
02-11-2013, 12:15 AM
Fans supported the team for the remainder of the brawl season because it was Reggie's final year and people wanted to get one last look at him in person.

Are you saying that's the main reason the fans still showed up the rest of the season? Reggie Miller? Come on, we still have great attendance that following year and then Ron Ron asked for a trade, and Jax and Tinsley were shooting up the clubs.

beast23
02-11-2013, 12:17 AM
I spend most of my existence downtown. I walk around downtown all the time and never feel unsafe. Most of the people who want money are harmless and will leave you alone if you ignore them. I do have a personal rule that I will never give any of them a cent. A few months ago, this guy on the Circle was pitching this story about how he was stranded and needed money to get back to X city. He was bold and asked for five dollars. I tried not to laugh in his face at the absurd request. I saw him a few weeks later pushing the same story to someone else. Con artist.
Thanks. I responded to one of the earlier posts but deleted it. By the way, under most circumstances in daylight hours it is in no way illegal to be approached as you are walking down a sidewalk, as long as you are not touched, threatened or impeded in any way.

I have never given a monetary donation to a panhandler. However, I have been known to buy an extra Subway sandwich or burger and give it to the first person that asked me for it on the way back to my office. Years ago, after I saw Steak'n'Shake employees rousting some homeless folks who were trying to stay warm in front of their restaurant, that's when I decided to take a stand. I started taking a couple of homeless guys in for lunch whenever I ran into them in front of the store.

Don't give them money, because some, if not many, have problems that aren't going to be helped by cash. But the problems of those that are truly in need will be helped by food or even a cup of hot coffee. The next time you walk down a street where you expect to see a few homeless, carry some extra food, even if it's a sack of White Castles. I assure you that you will accomplish three things. You'll help someone, you will make a friend for life and someone will be saying a prayer for you that evening.

Steagles
02-11-2013, 12:18 AM
I just left a really long response. Hopefully someone will read it.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

Heisenberg
02-11-2013, 12:20 AM
The FSI coverage does hurt more than most probably realize. My uncle has Dish and doesn't get it and he's on a fixed income and can't afford to upgrade to the next sports tier or whatever he'd have to do. He's still a big fan, follows them in the paper, talks to me about them a ton, all that stuff. Just isn't able to watch often.

idioteque
02-11-2013, 12:20 AM
The brawl was how ****ing long ago? People in this state are really stuck in their ways, perceptions change at a glacial pace for Hoosiers.

Pacer Fan
02-11-2013, 12:22 AM
Was there really a day where downtown Indy didn't have a lot of panhandlers? I always remember seeing them.
I think it was about 1981-82. Reagan had only been in office for maybe a year or 2. I went downtown and there was atleast a hundred homeless in the little park in between the 2 roads on a main drag (possibly Meridian)and another hundred walking around. It tripped me out as a youngster. I have never seen Indy like that since.

beast23
02-11-2013, 12:29 AM
The issue with bums is that it's a symptom of a declining society...similar to graffiti or boarded up windows. They go hand in hand with rising crime which is a statistical fact in Indy.
Come on BnG. Panhandlers are of two breeds. Those that are trying to con you and those that are truly in need. Those in need, which according to both our local police an Indy Star investigations, are a not a sign of a declining society, they are a sign of a poor economy and the inability to find or hold a job. The point is, the reason for the increase through the years is primarily economic.

By the way, i find the use of the term "bums" to describe our homeless that are truly in need as a very derogatory word in describing them. Can't we do better than that?

Peck
02-11-2013, 12:46 AM
Dumbasses.

You know as a moderator here I probably should ask you to delete this, however as a fellow Pacers fan all I can do when I read those comments is echo your sentiment. Thus why I thanked your post.

What I love is that the people on there that are making those comments are most likely people who have never been Pacers fans and never will be.

Look I hate playing the race card and I don't believe that everyone on there should be painted with a broad brush but man there are just a lot of ignorant racist code words being slung freely on there. I hated those people when I was a kid and they all came to M.S.A. 2 or 3 times a year wearing their Kelly Green & I hate them now.

Peck
02-11-2013, 12:48 AM
Okay guys I understand that even I went probably to far in the political sphere of things here but let's end the discussion about the homeless, panhandlers or whatever you want to call them on this thread.

Feel free to go to Market Square & open a discussion up and I will be happy to keep it going for you as long as we keep it civil.

Thank you for your co-operation.

PGisthefuture
02-11-2013, 12:49 AM
I guess this is what we'll have to do to get people to support the Pacers again...

First of all send the Hansbrough bros, Miles Plumlee, and Paul George all on a tour to every single little city around the state of Indiana. Make sure they are all wearing a suit and tie though because we don't want them looking like thugs... especially Paul... We'll also put up a billboard in all of these cities for the advertisement that everybody wants.

Then we'll put every game on all of the local channels. We'll also give out free tickets to everyone in the state, or heck, maybe just pay people to come watch these guys play.

We'll give out free meals at the front door of the Fieldhouse.

Maybe Andrew Luck and Tyler Zeller can be the halftime show for every game because people surely have no problem getting behind IU and the Colts.

Then maybe we will finally have done what it takes to get people to support the Pacers again... :rolleyes:

Sandman21
02-11-2013, 12:53 AM
Fans supported the team for the remainder of the brawl season because it was Reggie's final year and people wanted to get one last look at him in person.

Even before it was announced it was Reggie's last ride, fans were still supporting the team because we felt by and largely that it was us versus the world.

Sandman21
02-11-2013, 12:55 AM
As a teacher, I don't get paid enough to cover the cost of a night to watch overpaid men running up and down a court. Plus many, but not all, are not the role models I was in our lives. Not going to pay for their drugs and attorneys!
Thank god I don't have kids, because I wouldn't want someone so ignorant teaching them....

TheDon
02-11-2013, 01:09 AM
gonna sum up 80% of the posts from that link:


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23571498.jpg

Pacersalltheway10
02-11-2013, 01:25 AM
For what its worth, Butler hasnt done a great job at filling the house either even after those fantastic runs.

Pacersalltheway10
02-11-2013, 01:29 AM
Some people were saying that they like college basketball better. The Pacers are like an advanced college team in the way that they are built amd their defense. They are the perfect underdog team to get behind. I thought people in Indiana liked that?

Heisenberg
02-11-2013, 01:39 AM
Some people were saying that they like college basketball better. The Pacers are like an advanced college team in the way that they are built amd their defense. They are the perfect underdog team to get behind. I thought people in Indiana liked that?

Which I've never understood. If it's an aesthetics thing, the student sections and bands, old "cozy" (read: outdated and cramped) arenas, whatever, that's one thing. I least I could understand liking a more organic environment compared to the corporate vibe the NBA has going on.

But the people that prefer the actual basketball? That's just weird. But the people that say stuff like that usually immediately follow it up with "the NBA's all one on one and they don't play defense," because y'know, they've never actually watched the NBA.

NapTonius Monk
02-11-2013, 01:41 AM
Plus I never go to the facebook comment section for legitimate reasoning.
:iagree:

mitchbr
02-11-2013, 02:54 AM
Guys of course we have thugs! Do you ever see the look David West has when he's upset? I'd rather have Stephen Jackson than him! :rolleyes:

Really though, Monday will be my 7th game to date this season. Given I've never been a season ticket holder, that's a lot for me. Surely it'd be several years away, but I wouldn't hate the Pacers if they left. I'd be ashamed to call Indianapolis a basketball city and Indiana a basketball state.

Nuntius
02-11-2013, 04:21 AM
The issue with bums is that it's a symptom of a declining society...similar to graffiti or boarded up windows. They go hand in hand with rising crime which is a statistical fact in Indy.

Graffiti is a symptom of a declining society? :hmm:

PS: 'Aight, I just saw the Peck post asking us to take this discussion elsewhere. Feel free to ignore this post in this thread :)

imawhat
02-11-2013, 04:30 AM
All the team can do is keep winning and keep getting positive exposure in the media. It takes longer to reach the casual person, but it can be done.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2013, 07:28 AM
What exactly about homeless people on corners makes it unsafe?


The 1st thing that comes into people's mind when approached is their safety. We live in a different world now. There is more crime now with more population. As a kid, we didn't lock our doors at night or during the day when not home. In today's society, my doors are locked 24/7. I live in a very nice neighborhood, and last year I had a number of people coming to my door looking for handouts. One was stopped by police after being called by neighbors only to find out they had drug para on them. Their sob story was a scam. And yes I gave them money. Not anymore, I just donate monthly to food banks for the needy. That way I know what I give is used by those that need it.

I never had a problem calling on customers downtown, the Meadows, or the eastside. Then I always was companied by my "hammerless friend", so I never really worried. I've watched drug deals go down, prostitutes working, and gangs roaming. Today isn't the society your grandparents grew up in. If I could return to the days after WWII of the 50's and 60's, I would in a heartbeat. So fast it would make your head swim as it was a totally different time. I'll say this in closing and have many many times, I'd hate to be young growing up in todays society. It's bad enough as an adult at times living in this society let alone a child.

Downtown Bang!
02-11-2013, 07:45 AM
Some of you guys obviously havn't lived in other NBA cities. Indy doesn't have a monopoly on ignorance and intolerance or having that ignorance and intolerance show-up in highly questionable comments and attitudes about NBA Basketball & NBA Players.

idioteque
02-11-2013, 08:23 AM
The 1st thing that comes into people's mind when approached is their safety. We live in a different world now. There is more crime now with more population. As a kid, we didn't lock our doors at night or during the day when not home. In today's society, my doors are locked 24/7. I live in a very nice neighborhood, and last year I had a number of people coming to my door looking for handouts. One was stopped by police after being called by neighbors only to find out they had drug para on them. Their sob story was a scam. And yes I gave them money. Not anymore, I just donate monthly to food banks for the needy. That way I know what I give is used by those that need it.

I never had a problem calling on customers downtown, the Meadows, or the eastside. Then I always was companied by my "hammerless friend", so I never really worried. I've watched drug deals go down, prostitutes working, and gangs roaming. Today isn't the society your grandparents grew up in. If I could return to the days after WWII of the 50's and 60's, I would in a heartbeat. So fast it would make your head swim as it was a totally different time. I'll say this in closing and have many many times, I'd hate to be young growing up in todays society. It's bad enough as an adult at times living in this society let alone a child.

And why is that? Because the economy started going to hell in the mid-70's and we've never really recovered! We've replaced jobs that provide a good middle class lifestyle with boatloads of imported consumer goods that people buy on credit cards they can't pay back. Another conversation for another day though.

CreekShow
02-11-2013, 08:57 AM
Kim Roscoe Sarabyn (https://www.facebook.com/kim.sarabyn) As a teacher, I don't get paid enough to cover the cost of a night to watch overpaid men running up and down a court. Plus many, but not all, are not the role models I was in our lives. Not going to pay for their drugs and attorneys!


:(

An awful lot of thug/gangster talk - more than I expected.






And to think this lady is molding young minds SMH

OlBlu
02-11-2013, 09:36 AM
Thank god I don't have kids, because I wouldn't want someone so ignorant teaching them....

Well, if you stop and think about it the teacher is right. Many are not role models and we had our share of those in Indy. I don't feel that way but I wouldn't call someone ignorant for thinking that way....:cool: ...

CreekShow
02-11-2013, 09:48 AM
Well, if you stop and think about it the teacher is right. Many are not role models and we had our share of those in Indy. I don't feel that way but I wouldn't call someone ignorant for thinking that way....:cool: ...

Its her last sentence, dont act like you don't know what hes talking about. And TBH after seeing some of your comments on here, its not shocking to think you might feel the same way

OlBlu
02-11-2013, 10:00 AM
Its her last sentence, dont act like you don't know what hes talking about. And TBH after seeing some of your comments on here, its not shocking to think you might feel the same way

I do not feel the same way but with sports personalities in constant trouble all over the USA, I do understand it. :cool: ...

owl
02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Maybe we need to petition the NbA to use helmets or masks or anything that won't show the color of their skin. I usually do not pull the race card, but if the Colts played with no helmet would they be so loyal.


There are always going to be people who cannot see past skin color,sad but true, but if that is the main reason why the Pacers are not succeeding then explain the college game. Huge popularity and last I checked most were not caucasian. I believe the biggest issues are population numbers and the number of professional and college sports available in Indy. It is going to be much harder to support the NBA, NFL and Triple AAA beseball along with all the HS and College sports with a population around a million. That is the biggest problem. Fairweather? Baloney. It plays a part but we have a numbers problem. Race, game location, promotion, NBA game,cost, etc. are all secondary issues. Go ahead and look at some of the other NBA cities. Can some of those secondary issues be delt with to draw more people? Absolutely. The Pacers players are doing a fantastic job professionally and personally to promote the game. Kudos to them.

BillS
02-11-2013, 10:28 AM
Are you saying that's the main reason the fans still showed up the rest of the season? Reggie Miller? Come on, we still have great attendance that following year and then Ron Ron asked for a trade, and Jax and Tinsley were shooting up the clubs.

Well, the attendance numbers for the rest of that season were heavily based both on already-purchased season tickets AND the fact that most people felt Stern gave the Pacers the shaft in a way the NBA would not have done for a bigger market team.

I believe that without the brawl (and without Reggie retiring), the other incidents don't have the impact they ended up having on the reputation of the Pacers. A fanbase can only take so much adversity, and those years just kept piling on.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 10:38 AM
If you feel unsafe in downtown Indy then I cringe to think how some of you would react in just about any other city. Indy is for the most part, incredibly well lit, boasts a good police presence, and now has plenty going on at all times of night to keep really dangerous people away. The Fieldhouse in particular is in an exceptionally safe area IMO.

duke dynamite
02-11-2013, 10:45 AM
If you feel unsafe in downtown Indy then I cringe to think how some of you would react in just about any other city. Indy is for the most part, incredibly well lit, boasts a good police presence, and now has plenty going on at all times of night to keep really dangerous people away. The Fieldhouse in particular is in an exceptionally safe area IMO.

I've never felt unsafe downtown. It's the suburbs you should be concerned about.

BillS
02-11-2013, 10:46 AM
If you feel unsafe in downtown Indy then I cringe to think how some of you would react in just about any other city. Indy is for the most part, incredibly well lit, boasts a good police presence, and now has plenty going on at all times of night to keep really dangerous people away. The Fieldhouse in particular is in an exceptionally safe area IMO.

I thanked this, but it really has to do with a lack of knowledge about the city from people who live places where they still don't lock their doors. I think it also has to do with the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality of the media, such that no one thinks about the millions of people who go downtown safely, only about the shootings on the East side. And, that said, Indy DOES have a rather disproportionate share of violence for a city its size - it just isn't where these folks think it is.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 10:50 AM
I thanked this, but it really has to do with a lack of knowledge about the city from people who live places where they still don't lock their doors. I think it also has to do with the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality of the media, such that no one thinks about the millions of people who go downtown safely, only about the shootings on the East side. And, that said, Indy DOES have a rather disproportionate share of violence for a city its size - it just isn't where these folks think it is.

I just don't consider that downtown.

BillS
02-11-2013, 10:54 AM
I just don't consider that downtown.

Well, yeah, that was my point.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 10:56 AM
Well, yeah, that was my point.

Right, I'm just reinforcing the general idea was trying to point out. Actual downtown Indianapolis feels very safe.

vapacersfan
02-11-2013, 10:56 AM
Perhaps I am just mis-informed, but I am shocked at how much people are shocked at the attendance in Indiana.

The team was bad, it takes a LONG time to win fans back.

I compared it to losing weight a few years ago in a post about attendance. It is easy to put on 100 lbs eating pizza, chipotle, potbellys, and drinking 4 Lokos in a 30 day span, but it takes months, if not years, to lose that weight.

The Pacers got the first step down, new players, new identitiy, and now they are winning. The fans seem to be coming back, albeit slowly

I guess I am just used to seeing MCI Center look like a HS crows on 90% of game nights.

Ransom
02-11-2013, 11:00 AM
If you feel unsafe in downtown Indy then I cringe to think how some of you would react in just about any other city. Indy is for the most part, incredibly well lit, boasts a good police presence, and now has plenty going on at all times of night to keep really dangerous people away. The Fieldhouse in particular is in an exceptionally safe area IMO.

Like Bills said, there's a lot of people who rarely walk through much of any city at all except through certain areas. It's a matter of perspective. I grew up in front of a corn field. Walking up and down Indianapolis at night and having a guy ask for money is a pretty wild shock for some folks who never saw that.

dohman
02-11-2013, 11:08 AM
I keep seeing excuses. The poor attendance is going to cause us to lose one of our stars because the income simply is not there. Its a little easier to go into the LT when people spend money to watch your games.

The pacers are a top team this year. They were a top team last year, they made it to the 2nd round in the playoffs last year. The year before that they had a hard fought battle with the bulls in the playoffs. They have not been BAD in quite some time. Indiana is just not simply the basketball states that is claims to be anymore.

Heres a quick fact. The Texas Rangers were HORRIBLE for a very very long time. The season they turned it around the stands INSTANTLY filled back up. It shouldnt take years for a team to get attendance. With social networking and TV everyone in Indiana should be buzzing and fighting to get in the doors if tickets are really only .50 cents.

If I was Mr. Simon I would be very worried about my product and ask myself if having a top team is worth it cost wise since the fans will not show up anyways.

Pacergeek
02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
Fans don't go because Indianapolis is a fair weather pro sports town. Fans want a championship. Because of the corruption of the NBA, we have a slim to none chance of winning a title. The average bandwagon fan isn't going to commit emotionally and financially to a team with no chance to win it all. NBA only cares about the following teams: Lakers, Clippers, Thunder, Heat, Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Bulls. One of these teams will win the championship this year. Without the support of the NBA, how can we expect our own city to support the Pacers?

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 11:43 AM
Paul needs to have a great showing in Houston. Normally I don't care how our players do at these sort of events, but him putting up 20 or so in that fast paced high flying style would go a long way towards the Pacers seeing a big attendance boost. We need a star Paul, we need a big, bright shining star.

BPump33
02-11-2013, 11:55 AM
I work/park by Victory Field and walk to and from every game. It's about a 12-15 minute walk each way and I've never once felt unsafe. I suppose that could be because I'm downtown all the time, but it's never even crossed my mind.

vapacersfan
02-11-2013, 12:00 PM
I keep seeing excuses. The poor attendance is going to cause us to lose one of our stars because the income simply is not there. Its a little easier to go into the LT when people spend money to watch your games.

The pacers are a top team this year. They were a top team last year, they made it to the 2nd round in the playoffs last year. The year before that they had a hard fought battle with the bulls in the playoffs. They have not been BAD in quite some time. Indiana is just not simply the basketball states that is claims to be anymore.

Heres a quick fact. The Texas Rangers were HORRIBLE for a very very long time. The season they turned it around the stands INSTANTLY filled back up. It shouldnt take years for a team to get attendance. With social networking and TV everyone in Indiana should be buzzing and fighting to get in the doors if tickets are really only .50 cents.

If I was Mr. Simon I would be very worried about my product and ask myself if having a top team is worth it cost wise since the fans will not show up anyways.

Same for the Redskins. They can suck, like really bad, and still sell out season tickets and fill the house for the big games.

I would argue that has more to do with basketball being big in Indiana and the Pacers are not the only form on entertainment.

Just my .02, I could be wrong.

RWB
02-11-2013, 12:10 PM
I think the one thing we're forgetting when discussing feeling safe (what's the problem?) we're looking at it through a man's perspective. I know Mrs. RWB feels safe when we're walking to a game, but I can guarantee if for some reason we have tickets and I have to miss it she's not going to ask a female friend to go instead. Back in the MSA days she would and did.

Part of the reason is the pan-handling and folks being approached for money. Last year I had to tell a guy to back off who was trying to take advantage of someone who didn't know better.

Here's the story.... I brought a group of Brazilian students to a game and before hand we stop off and eat in the South PTO lot Arbys. Now understand they're all adults in their early 20s so it is not like I have to hold their hand. However this guy approaches one of the tables and I watch one of our students get up and follow this guy toward the front of the store. Of course I immediately get up and shake my head no and tell Eduardo its ok just go back to your table and I'll take care of this. So this scam artist proceeds to tell me it aint right these Arabs come over here for free and what does it hurt for them to give me some money when they don't need it. Needless to say my conversation didn't end there but I won't get into that. Bottom line.... there is a legit concern with this going on outside of BLF.

Side note: This shouldn't make any difference to the story but in case someone was wondering this @sshole was white.

billbradley
02-11-2013, 12:26 PM
Nobody is saying Indy is crime or homeless free, but how much better can a downtown of a fast growing metro/12th largest city be? There are a lot of arenas and stadiums around the nation that wouldn't be getting any business if BLF is considered unsafe...

immortality
02-11-2013, 12:32 PM
Any modern, urban, and big city will have homeless and crime, you can say that about any sister cities of Indianapolis. Pacers tickets are ridiculously cheap in the upper levels, if you just want to have a good time and watch a game live, it's a great way to enjoy time. Some of the comments are a bad reflection of city and shows the conservativeness of Indiana in general. Also reading the comments about college players playing harder in their games than in NBA, all I could do was laugh out loud and sigh. College basketball will always be amateur compared to NBA.

Mac_Daddy
02-11-2013, 12:43 PM
Most of the negative comments just show that these people aren't fans of the NBA at all, let alone the Pacers. You'll always hear more negative feedback than positive. Always.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 12:45 PM
Do people feel safe walking down the Monon in Carmel at night? Because I feel a lot less safe walking down the monon in Carmel at night than I do walking out of a Pacers game, man or woman. But yet you won't hear anyone discuss that.

circlecitysportsfan
02-11-2013, 12:54 PM
Reading that last night made me so angry. I went onto subhub and found 4 tickets for under 15 dollars, tax and fees.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 12:56 PM
Honestly, Indy has some of the most friendly unassuming homeless I've ever come across

RWB
02-11-2013, 01:03 PM
Honestly, Indy has some of the most friendly unassuming homeless I've ever come across

And damn good saxaphone players too. ;)

Kid Minneapolis
02-11-2013, 01:18 PM
Addressing numerous comments:

1) "Too expensive, can't afford it." They how does Lucas Oil fill up to the brim when their average ticket is $100+? I spent $200 for a Colts ticket in December to see the friggin Titans. I paid $5 for a seat right next to Area 55 last week --- 4 hours before the game. There's a lot of hypocritical people out there... and illogical ones, at that. I know these same people are forking out big money for Colts games and then turning around and saying "too expensive" in regards to Pacers games. It's absolutely not true and just makes these people look stupid.
2) "Thugs". Yeah, this is correct ---- 8 years ago. It's amazing how image can stick around, goes to show you absolutely CANNOT ignore character when bringing in a player or management, and I tried saying this back then on this site and on IndyStar and I got shoved out en masse by people who said talent > character. I personally believe it's the single largest factor as to why attendance is struggling to pick back up... people tuned out and are just refusing to tune back in.
3) Indy is not bad downtown, at all.
4) It's 50X easier to get in and out of a Pacer game than it is a Colts game. I had zero wait whatsoever getting in and out last week. Zero. For a Colts game, you can expect to spend 15 minutes just getting back to your car, and then another 30-45 minutes sitting in traffic.

naptownmenace
02-11-2013, 01:20 PM
I just left a really long response. Hopefully someone will read it.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

I encourage everyone that can to do that as well. Complaining about it here won't help change ignorant people's perceptions any.

Cousy47
02-11-2013, 01:20 PM
You have to love the people who don't go to Pacer games, don't watch them on FSN, didn't watch them in college, but will comment in a minute about their behavior, their commitment and any other part of their life because in their opinion it costs too much to go to the games. Please don't come, you are determined not to like it, you won't. One on one iso's? My advice to these folks has always been: Go to a game, watch one player, not the ball. Let me know how lazy and disinterested he was.

naptownmenace
02-11-2013, 01:32 PM
Fans don't go because Indianapolis is a fair weather pro sports town. Fans want a championship. Because of the corruption of the NBA, we have a slim to none chance of winning a title. The average bandwagon fan isn't going to commit emotionally and financially to a team with no chance to win it all. NBA only cares about the following teams: Lakers, Clippers, Thunder, Heat, Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Bulls. One of these teams will win the championship this year. Without the support of the NBA, how can we expect our own city to support the Pacers?

I guess that's why the Mavs won the Championship 2 seasons ago?

I get your overall point but seriously, haven't you noticed something different about the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, Thunder, and Bulls? They all have at least one superstar (or multiple) and except for OKC play in the biggest markets in the US. The teams with the most fans and the best superstars get the most attention.

It's another reason why Reggie Miller was such an incredible player. He wasn't the atypical Superstar during the regular season but come playoffs time, he would turn into the Love-him or Hate-him type of player that got the Pacers noticed.

It's not some bias that comes from the league office. More than anything, it's a media driven thing based on Market (demographics and population). That's how it is now but none of that means that the Pacers aren't worth watching or supporting. There's no guarantee that any of the teams you mentioned will win the championship. An injury could change everything - look at the Bulls last year.

I agree wholeheartedly with your first statement! Indianapolis has always been a fair weather what-have-you-done-for-me-lately type of sports town. Casual fans never cared about Butler before the Final Four appearances. Even interest in IU basketball was down prior to the past couple of seasons. They'll get behind a winner but that winning has to happen more than one year during the playoffs.

kielbeze
02-11-2013, 01:34 PM
No the games are not brodcast locally. This is one thing that ticks me off and is a major reason causal fans have no clue. FSI is not locally. Locally is any channel you can get on an antenna without paying. If our games were on WTHR like the colts I think a lot more people would see us play. I know we cant have every game during prime time on a local network. But we should at least be able to get a few games here and there on Channel 4 or something.

TinManJoshua
02-11-2013, 01:52 PM
I've lived in three major metropolitan areas. Chicago, Cleveland, and Columbus,OH. When I lived in Indiana I lived in Bloomington, and spent a whole lot of time in Indy.

Indy is the most white-bread, clean, safe of all of them(I felt safer in Cleveland than the others too, shocker I know) The homeless traffic is mild, too. These excuses to me are the epitome of sheltered middle class bull hockey. "It's a city so it must be dangerous!"

Kid Minneapolis
02-11-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't really agree that Indy is fairweather any moreso than any other city. I get the feeling that they would have the crowds had the franchise not gone through what they did in 2004-2006 with the incidents on and off court. Attendance before that was very high for years. I think a lot of people tuned out the Pacers then and have since replaced them with something else in their lives. I know a lot of people who just don't know a damn thing about he Pacers anymore, and when I bring them up, the first thing they say is, "I don't support those thugs." Yes --- people are still saying that... a LOT of people. The image issue has stuck unfortunately... the Pacers biggest challenge is projecting this new image to the entire state and showing that image is long behind them.

I do think the numbers will go up and attendance will return... it's just not going to be fast like in other markets that haven't suffered what Indy suffered. Mark my words... what the Pacer fans of 2004-2006 endured is unlike what any other fanbase has had to endure, so we don't fit the typical criteria. Saying the Rangers or whoever had instant increases in numbers doesn't mean anything --- they didn't have the stigma that Indy had to fight against. In a 2-3 year period, we went from being Championship hopefuls..... to watching Artest charge the stands, JO throw a home run cut at a fan, Tinsley waving poles around, Jackson and Tinsley involved in off court incidents, court hearings... Reggie's final days and the pain of him not winning a championship and then retiring..... I mean, think about that. That's a ton of **** to throw at a fan base. Once Reggie left, there was no desire for anyone to even pay attention to them anymore, they had been hurt and embarrassed and finally sad to see their hero go with no replacement in sight.

It's going to be a slow healing process... and it already has been a healing process. The numbers are slowly going up. The locker room has slowly been changed over. The post-season success is slowly coming back. They are doing the right things, but they're going to have to be patient, give this another year or two.

Indy has very loyal fans... they are loyal to the Colts (now that they are established, they weren't loyal at all for the first 15 years)... they are loyal to IU... the rest of the colleges. It's only the Pacers that are going through this. I don't really consider Pacer fans fairweather... I consider them snake-bitten. And Indiana people tend to be hard in their ways, even against logic.

RWB
02-11-2013, 02:06 PM
I've lived in three major metropolitan areas. Chicago, Cleveland, and Columbus,OH. When I lived in Indiana I lived in Bloomington, and spent a whole lot of time in Indy.

Indy is the most white-bread, clean, safe of all of them(I felt safer in Cleveland than the others too, shocker I know) The homeless traffic is mild, too. These excuses to me are the epitome of sheltered middle class bull hockey. "It's a city so it must be dangerous!"

Unless somebody changed their name to protect the innocent the person listed their name as Candy Partin. Why wouldn't a female(s) feel nervous? Also can't forget that when the games start in November it gets dark earlier. It is a little different walking down the street in the dark than when it is light out.

HC
02-11-2013, 02:17 PM
Even though I was once hustled as a youngster, it was my own fault. I have never felt unsafe in downtown, nor do I feel safe taking my own family downtown now. I am, however, a little short on the funds to do so very often. I still love this team, watch every game, and follow them closely. I'm just not in attendance very often, and believe me I wish I was.

Bball
02-11-2013, 02:26 PM
The fundamental difference between the NFL and the NBA: an NFL uniform covers more skin.

A starter on your basketball team gets in legal trouble and it's 1/5th of your starting lineup. A starter on your football team gets in legal trouble and it's 1/11th of your starting lineup... and that's assuming we break it down to offense and defense... otherwise it's 1/22nd of your starting lineup overall. Let alone if you do the percentage of the team overall.

Now factor in a lineup of Tins, Sjax, Artest, Harrison, Williams... et al and do the percentages...

And would everyone quit using the brawl as the point fans turned up their noses. The fans hung tough with the team after the brawl. It was the team's followup season to the brawl when the wheels came off. No Reggie. Artest and JO still unable to co-exist... Tinsley's sinuboozepoutinitis... Sjax... JO's divastic 'domination'... Artest's trade demand... incidents... Reggie's jersey retirement game where the team were burned by the Suns... whining... pouting... arguing...

And then the hits kept coming... Guns, weed, incidents... losses... molasses slow front office.... hanging with murderers... strip clubs... mysterious illnesses... "conduct detrimental to the team"... distractions.... Bender bust... drug suspensions... a trade that cash strapped the team and didn't really fix the losing or allow for a light at the end of the tunnel... Jim O'Brien who talked like the 2nd coming of Bob Knight and coached like George from Hoosiers ("Can't score if you don't shoot")... stretch 4 matador...

THAT is how things declined. The brawl itself was a blip... ultimately it was a symptom of the cancer that was growing inside the team...

BillS
02-11-2013, 02:36 PM
The brawl itself was a blip

While I mostly agree with the direction you are going with it, this is a gross and unfair understatement. The brawl continued to be one of those things that the national media used to reinforce the notion that the Pacers were a team of *insert non-racist word meaning people who choose violence as their primary response*.

It is MUCH more than a blip in the history of the team. Just because it wasn't the sole cause of the problems with how people perceived the team doesn't somehow minimize its impact as an event.

Trophy
02-11-2013, 03:36 PM
Makes me feel like puking. Seriously.

It makes me very ill reading some of this stupidity. They need to realize it's a finger to themselves. The Pacers grab media attention and the empty seats is an embarrassment to all of the city.

Look at the Portland Trail Blazers. Their fans were directly insulted. Bonzi Wells pretty much said at time, the team could care less about the fans. They're attendance fell after that. Now they draw much better.

Not that the Colts have any bad guys, but the NFL is infested with thuggery and arrests. In the NBA, you very rarely hear about a player being arrested nowadays.

I don't think that's the reason. I think some people are really trolling because the playoffs were standing room only crowds.

Back to the Colts, 60,000+ will attend those games. Over 100% capacity to spend over $100 for one game, then parking, food, etc.

Regardless, too many people in life out way the good with the bad.

I know some people prefer college over professional sports, but it's still basketball and the Pacers are honestly one of the last teams you would think would be so low in attendance. The Pacers are what you want out of professional athletes.

Indiana is a great sports state. Indy is a great sports city. Attendance will go up, but again, WHEN?

gummy
02-11-2013, 03:44 PM
I think the one thing we're forgetting when discussing feeling safe (what's the problem?) we're looking at it through a man's perspective. I know Mrs. RWB feels safe when we're walking to a game, but I can guarantee if for some reason we have tickets and I have to miss it she's not going to ask a female friend to go instead. Back in the MSA days she would and did.

Part of the reason is the pan-handling and folks being approached for money. Last year I had to tell a guy to back off who was trying to take advantage of someone who didn't know better.

Here's the story.... I brought a group of Brazilian students to a game and before hand we stop off and eat in the South PTO lot Arbys. Now understand they're all adults in their early 20s so it is not like I have to hold their hand. However this guy approaches one of the tables and I watch one of our students get up and follow this guy toward the front of the store. Of course I immediately get up and shake my head no and tell Eduardo its ok just go back to your table and I'll take care of this. So this scam artist proceeds to tell me it aint right these Arabs come over here for free and what does it hurt for them to give me some money when they don't need it. Needless to say my conversation didn't end there but I won't get into that. Bottom line.... there is a legit concern with this going on outside of BLF.

Side note: This shouldn't make any difference to the story but in case someone was wondering this @sshole was white.

Re: bolded part. Are you sure? By which I mean...I know there is a widespread assumption that posters are male unless otherwise noted. But there are active women (more than a couple) on this board. They don't usually stand up and say so, but they are around!

Obviously people feel the way they feel. We all have different backgrounds and experiences and that is going to have an impact. I've almost always felt safe in downtown Indy, day or night. Then again, I've lived in SoCal for over a decade now and having been in LA a lot...I think being in any really big city re-sets expectations.

Crazy story about the pandhandler. Arabs? Really? There is a lot of diversity in terms of the way Brazilians look but that still seems weird to me.

mrpeters
02-11-2013, 03:46 PM
What exactly about homeless people on corners makes it unsafe?

A woman got beat up just last week (maybe 2 weeks ago?) by a homeless guy outside one of the hotels...

boombaby1987
02-11-2013, 03:51 PM
A woman got beat up just last week (maybe 2 weeks ago?) by a homeless guy outside one of the hotels...

One random isolated incident. Can you find me the article?

Unclebuck
02-11-2013, 03:51 PM
No the games are not brodcast locally. This is one thing that ticks me off and is a major reason causal fans have no clue. FSI is not locally. Locally is any channel you can get on an antenna without paying. If our games were on WTHR like the colts I think a lot more people would see us play. I know we cant have every game during prime time on a local network. But we should at least be able to get a few games here and there on Channel 4 or something.


Yes but even IU and Purdue are no longer on that channel. Times have changed and they aren't going back to the way they were

RWB
02-11-2013, 04:11 PM
Re: bolded part. Are you sure? By which I mean...I know there is a widespread assumption that posters are male unless otherwise noted. But there are active women (more than a couple) on this board. They don't usually stand up and say so, but they are around!

Obviously people feel the way they feel. We all have different backgrounds and experiences and that is going to have an impact. I've almost always felt safe in downtown Indy, day or night. Then again, I've lived in SoCal for over a decade now and having been in LA a lot...I think being in any really big city re-sets expectations.

Crazy story about the pandhandler. Arabs? Really? There is a lot of diversity in terms of the way Brazilians look but that still seems weird to me.

Gummy I am not implying at all there are only male posters on PD. I was referring to the link/post on the first page (WTHR 13) that started this discussion. Someone alluded to the idea basically Indy is very safe so why would anyone make that type of remark. My response was that a lady in that facebook discussion brought up that point she didn't feel safe. I just thought members would have to see the situation through her eyes to understand why she said that.

As to panhandlers, Arabs, really? You don't have to believe the story and all I can say is every word is true. I've been in the business of protecting people a long time and have no need to make things up.

gummy
02-11-2013, 05:25 PM
Gummy I am not implying at all there are only male posters on PD. I was referring to the link/post on the first page (WTHR 13) that started this discussion. Someone alluded to the idea basically Indy is very safe so why would anyone make that type of remark. My response was that a lady in that facebook discussion brought up that point she didn't feel safe. I just thought members would have to see the situation through her eyes to understand why she said that.

As to panhandlers, Arabs, really? You don't have to believe the story and all I can say is every word is true. I've been in the business of protecting people a long time and have no need to make things up.

Huh?

You seem to have misunderstood my last comment, which I suppose I could have made clearer! I was not at all suggesting that you made up the story. I was amazed that the guy could be so ignorant as to identify Brazilians as Arabs. Most Brazilians look nothing like Arabs, so it seemed crazy to me. But I guess a lot of people have no idea what Brazilians look like in general.

BRushWithDeath
02-11-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm not reading through this thread and forgive me if this has already been mentioned but I'm much more concerned about the collective intelligence of my fair city if we're basing it on Facebook comments than anything said within them.

DangerGranger3pointranger
02-11-2013, 05:47 PM
Even even the team was good in the 90's our attendance was middling. (I forget where I read that, but I do believe it was a post by unclebuck, though I could be wrong)

Indiana is definitely a fair weather state. We were so bad for so long, I just feel it's going to take some time to get the city and the state to come out to a game against the Pelicans on a Tuesday.

I was at the raptors game on Friday, which was reasonably packed. When we lost, I overheard quite a few ppl saying they weren't going to come see this team play again. All because they lost to the raptors lol. I wanted to tell at them and say "WE'VE ONLY LOST HERE 4 TIMES ALL YEAR!!" But it definitely opened my eyes. We HAVE to continue to be dominant at home if we want to improve our attendance more.

Our attendance is up a bit from last year, so hey it's a start.

I thanked your post because you made a valid point, but I admire the fact you wrote Pelicans

DangerGranger3pointranger
02-11-2013, 05:52 PM
This was one post on their facebook page

Doron Pinchas "I can't believe the STUPIDITY of most of these Indiana locals.... About 3 years ago, I spent 3 days in Indianapolis and went to a Pacers game. I walked all over downtown Indianapolis before the game and did not see ANY bums or crime or anything "ghetto"- downtown Indy is CLEAN and family friendly... and I spent $14 for my ticket which is a bargain. People do NOT have to eat the stadium food... after all the point of going to a game is to watch PACERS BASKETBALL not eat the food... if I lived in Indianapolis I would be at the fieldhouse EVERY game, but if the locals won't support them, I'd be glad to have the Pacers move here to NYC"

Amen!! :bowdown:

Kid Minneapolis
02-11-2013, 06:06 PM
I'm not reading through this thread and forgive me if this has already been mentioned but I'm much more concerned about the collective intelligence of my fair city if we're basing it on Facebook comments than anything said within them.

Get tired of people discrediting comments. They are a good way to get the pulse of a community.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Trophy
02-11-2013, 06:35 PM
I can't imagine the few idiots who bring up thuggery into the discussion of why they don't go, ever mattered.

I doubt they ever went to any games in the past, so they don't need to be catered to. Plenty of people have come out, like the playoffs. They just don't come out nearly enough.

Trophy
02-11-2013, 06:40 PM
This was one post on their facebook page

Doron Pinchas "I can't believe the STUPIDITY of most of these Indiana locals.... About 3 years ago, I spent 3 days in Indianapolis and went to a Pacers game. I walked all over downtown Indianapolis before the game and did not see ANY bums or crime or anything "ghetto"- downtown Indy is CLEAN and family friendly... and I spent $14 for my ticket which is a bargain. People do NOT have to eat the stadium food... after all the point of going to a game is to watch PACERS BASKETBALL not eat the food... if I lived in Indianapolis I would be at the fieldhouse EVERY game, but if the locals won't support them, I'd be glad to have the Pacers move here to NYC"

Amen!! :bowdown:

They aren't going anywhere and I'm pretty sure NYC has more than enough teams. A good statement by that person, nonetheless.

I feel the same way. If I lived in Indy, I'd be at BLF for every home game I can attend.

immortality
02-11-2013, 06:42 PM
This was one post on their facebook page Doron Pinchas "I can't believe the STUPIDITY of most of these Indiana locals.... About 3 years ago, I spent 3 days in Indianapolis and went to a Pacers game. I walked all over downtown Indianapolis before the game and did not see ANY bums or crime or anything "ghetto"- downtown Indy is CLEAN and family friendly... and I spent $14 for my ticket which is a bargain. People do NOT have to eat the stadium food... after all the point of going to a game is to watch PACERS BASKETBALL not eat the food... if I lived in Indianapolis I would be at the fieldhouse EVERY game, but if the locals won't support them, I'd be glad to have the Pacers move here to NYC" Amen!! :bowdown: QFT. Reading comments just makes me sad, I would love if the Bulls were tickets as cheap as Pacers. I live ten minutes from United center and I would go to every game (with the exception of -25 degree weather, jeez too cold) if tickets were that cheap. And Chicago is way worse when it comes homeless and random crime. On campus last year, someone got kidnapped in the middle of the afternoon. The hell?

Slick Pinkham
02-11-2013, 07:05 PM
Let's put it this way, my first trip to BLF (then Conseco) was a decade or so ago, and I lived in Boston. My dad (RIP) was turning 80 and I thought it would be great to take him to a game. Being from Boston, I was used to paying $40 to park downtown and paying marked-up ticket prices for really good seats on the secondary market (such as stubhub). Plus my dad walked with a cane- how would I ever park close enough?

So I bought tickets and they were dirt cheap, by NBA standards, to sit in the lower level at about the free throw line. Plus I called the Pacers public relations and they told me where the drop off spot was, a disabled entrance and exactly how to get there. I arrived and there was somebody there to even look after my Dad while I parked the car a half block away for... 5 bucks! I remember thinking.... 5 bucks an hour?... 5 bucks a half hour?.... wait.... Just 5 bucks TOTAL???

I parked, found my Dad, still in the company of a a helpful guest relations person, who then told me the location of the elevators, wished my Dad a Happy 80th birthday, and made sure we were happy to be there.

I don't think any arena in any city hosting any sport would have done half what Pacer Sports and Entertainment did then. I had just made a phone call asking for a little advice.

Maybe my experience was out of the ordinary, but it left an impression. I live 1,100 miles away, Mom and Dad have passed, and I don't visit Indiana much. But if I do and it's basketball season, I will make every effort to go. And if I lived there? Wow.

PaulGeorge
02-11-2013, 07:09 PM
That's what you get when you ask facebookers what they think about anything outside of facebook and instagram.

BlueNGold
02-11-2013, 07:14 PM
Was there really a day where downtown Indy didn't have a lot of panhandlers? I always remember seeing them.

I certainly do remember them not being down there...specifically around the mall. It was not like this 10 years ago.

Sollozzo
02-11-2013, 07:25 PM
Let's put it this way, my first trip to BLF (then Conseco) was a decade or so ago, and I lived in Boston. My dad (RIP) was turning 80 and I thought it would be great to take him to a game. Being from Boston, I was used to paying $40 to park downtown and paying marked-up ticket prices for really good seats on the secondary market (such as stubhub). Plus my dad walked with a cane- how would I ever park close enough?

So I bought tickets and they were dirt cheap, by NBA standards, to sit in the lower level at about the free throw line. Plus I called the Pacers public relations and they told me where the drop off spot was, a disabled entrance and exactly how to get there. I arrived and there was somebody there to even look after my Dad while I parked the car a half block away for... 5 bucks! I remember thinking.... 5 bucks an hour?... 5 bucks a half hour?.... wait.... Just 5 bucks TOTAL???

I parked, found my Dad, still in the company of a a helpful guest relations person, who then told me the location of the elevators, wished my Dad a Happy 80th birthday, and made sure we were happy to be there.

I don't think any arena in any city hosting any sport would have done half what Pacer Sports and Entertainment did then. I had just made a phone call asking for a little advice.

Maybe my experience was out of the ordinary, but it left an impression. I live 1,100 miles away, Mom and Dad have passed, and I don't visit Indiana much. But if I do and it's basketball season, I will make every effort to go. And if I lived there? Wow.


That was a great story. I think that people who live around Indy really do take the Fieldhouse for granted. We have a facility that looks like it opened yesterday, despite being 14 years old. It seems like every out-of-towner like yourself gushes over the place. When someone moves away from Indiana, I think they realize just how lucky we are to have a place like the Fieldhouse in our backyard.

Pacersalltheway10
02-11-2013, 07:26 PM
http://www.wthr.com/story/21109320/plenty-of-seats-available-for-pacers-games


By Rich Nye - bio | email



INDIANAPOLIS -
In a season where the Pacers have sold out just four games at Bankers Life Fieldhouse, Monday is one of the toughest nights to draw a crowd for the Indiana Pacers. Plenty of seats are available all over the arena as the Pacers host the Brooklyn Nets tonight at 7:00 p.m. That's despite a matchup of two winning teams battling for playoff position in the Eastern Conference. The Pacers (31-20) lead the Central Division and have won 15 of their last 16 home games.

"It is a little frustrating at times to see a lot of empty seats," said Pacers coach Frank Vogel at shoot around Monday morning, "because we've got a really good team, a fun team, a likeable team. But I understand weeknights. I have young children, so it's tougher for families in particular to come to games. But certainly we want to get to the point where it doesn't matter if it's a weeknight, weekend, big opponent, not big opponent – we see packed houses every night."

The Pacers rank 5th worst in NBA attendance, 26th out of the 30 teams, with an average attendance of 14,662.

WTHR asked on Facebook why more people are not coming to Pacers games. The question received hundreds of responses. Many people still appear to have a bad perception of the team based on incidents several seasons ago involving players that are no longer with the team. The Pacers organization has worked hard to put a winning team on the court fans can be proud of off the court as well. But a significant portion of people seem unwilling or slow to forgive.

Diane Stothard posted: "I know the current team has really cleaned up their act, but I just can't get past the idea of supporting a bunch of over-paid criminals."

Michael Wyrick added: "Social stigma from the "thug years" a few years back. Takes time to prove to people the atmosphere and attitude has changed. Success isn't all that sells tickets. It takes class too!"

Bradford Moulton responded: "Because of all the years we hired a bunch of Thugs!"

Comments like those were frequent. Many others complained about tickets prices and the affordability of a night out.

Larry Silver posted: "I watch it on TV. That way I don't have to pay the ticket service fees to the city!"

Tracy Puckett Newman added: "Ticket cost and the price of food or snacks makes it very unfriendly for families...not an affordable evening."

But a quick internet search found tickets on Stub Hub going for $5.00 or less in the balcony for tonight's game. The Colts sold out every home game at much higher prices, though far fewer games per season.

Pacers center Roy Hibbert has been proactive in trying to win fan support. This is the third season for Area 55. Fifty-five fans chosen by Hibbert through auditions are provided Pacers season tickets. George Hill and Paul George sponsor a similar section at the Fieldhouse.

"We want to give back and give away free tickets and have a welcoming family atmosphere," said Hibbert. "Whether it takes two years, five years, ten years to get it packed again, we're patient and we're just going to keep winning."

Pacers attendance is the topic of the JAM Session tonight on Eyewitness News at 5:30 p.m.

The Pacers are also home Wednesday against Charlotte at 7:00 p.m. You guessed it. Plenty of good seats available.

comments still look the same .....

Since86
02-11-2013, 07:32 PM
If WTHR wants to pump attendance for PS&E, then they need to stop referencing Stubhub. Talk about all the great deals that the Pacers offer.

Sollozzo
02-11-2013, 07:32 PM
I certainly do remember them not being down there...specifically around the mall. It was not like this 10 years ago.

I'll take your word for it. I was still relatively young ten years ago and I have spent far more time downtown in recent years than I did then.

The panhandlers usually don't bother me too much. Most of the time they back off when you tell them no. Only a few times have I been genuinely annoyed. A few weeks ago I randomly ran into someone I knew at the corner of a downtown intersection. We were talking and catching up when this guy invaded our space and asked if we had cigarettes. We don't smoke, but the fool wouldn't believe us and just kept pestering and pestering. We were unable to continue our conversation there and had to walk away because this clown wouldn't go away and was making us feel uncomfortable. Very irritating.

rock747
02-11-2013, 07:37 PM
If WTHR wants to pump attendance for PS&E, then they need to stop referencing Stubhub. Talk about all the great deals that the Pacers offer.

I don't know. Getting them in there in the first place is better than them not showing up. You have to build interest initially. They will still probably buy food and beverages.

pacer4ever
02-11-2013, 07:47 PM
If WTHR wants to pump attendance for PS&E, then they need to stop referencing Stubhub. Talk about all the great deals that the Pacers offer.

You do know most teams have big deals with stubhub? At least in MLB that is how it works. They get money out of stubub it's no different than ticketmaster really. They may receive a slightly smaller chunk but they still benefit just like when they sell though Ticketmaster at the box office or on Pacers.com.

EDIT: The NBA could be different I'm not sure but i would have to guess the Pacers get money from people buying on stubhub since they are official Pacer tickets and you can download them and what not.

Since86
02-11-2013, 07:49 PM
Understood. A chunk of $5 is a rounding error for the type of money we're talking about.

I get the benefits of stubhub, I just don't care about them. The best thing for the Pacers is for people to buy the deals they offer.

SMosley21
02-11-2013, 08:02 PM
The fundamental difference between the NFL and the NBA: an NFL uniform covers more skin.
BINGO!

Unclebuck
02-12-2013, 03:42 PM
Let's put it this way, my first trip to BLF (then Conseco) was a decade or so ago, and I lived in Boston. My dad (RIP) was turning 80 and I thought it would be great to take him to a game. Being from Boston, I was used to paying $40 to park downtown and paying marked-up ticket prices for really good seats on the secondary market (such as stubhub). Plus my dad walked with a cane- how would I ever park close enough?

So I bought tickets and they were dirt cheap, by NBA standards, to sit in the lower level at about the free throw line. Plus I called the Pacers public relations and they told me where the drop off spot was, a disabled entrance and exactly how to get there. I arrived and there was somebody there to even look after my Dad while I parked the car a half block away for... 5 bucks! I remember thinking.... 5 bucks an hour?... 5 bucks a half hour?.... wait.... Just 5 bucks TOTAL???

I parked, found my Dad, still in the company of a a helpful guest relations person, who then told me the location of the elevators, wished my Dad a Happy 80th birthday, and made sure we were happy to be there.

I don't think any arena in any city hosting any sport would have done half what Pacer Sports and Entertainment did then. I had just made a phone call asking for a little advice.

Maybe my experience was out of the ordinary, but it left an impression. I live 1,100 miles away, Mom and Dad have passed, and I don't visit Indiana much. But if I do and it's basketball season, I will make every effort to go. And if I lived there? Wow.


I had the opportunity to take my mom (she was a huge fan) to several games when she became handicapped and had to go in a wheelchair. I had very similar experiences that you did. They were great, really accomadating, they went above and beyond in just helping me to get my mom inside the place and make sure we had good seats.

changing topics - I remember the first time I walked into Conseco filedhouse, it was the very first Pacers game there in November 1999 when the Pacer splayed the Celtics. Just walking into the entry pavilion took my breath away, and I got a little choked up thinking back to all the struggles the frnachise had been through up to that point. I walked pretty much the whole building, went to the very top row of the balcony, looked outside the windows and was like a kid at Christmas. still love the place

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 03:43 PM
This thread is a joke. We are far from ignorant. We have really good sport franchises, really college programs all over the state. We're spoiled, not ignorant

grace
02-12-2013, 06:46 PM
Look, if people don't want to spend the money on going to a game, they don't want to spend the money. You may think it's worth walking a few blocks to pay less to park, but some people can't or won't walk that far. People used to give Kegboy and me grief for complaining about the traffic downtown duing the holiday season. I don't care if the traffic in Boston is worse, I live in Indy and there are times I don't think dealing with the traffic is worth going somewhere. You don't think crime is that bad in Indy? That may be true, but if you're the one who got robbed, or worse yet stabbed, crime is a big deal.

I assume eventually as long as the Pacers keep doing what they're doing attendence with pick up. But then again the economy is in the toilet and if you don't have the money for gas let alone a ticket things won't change.

:soapbox:

vapacersfan
02-12-2013, 06:53 PM
Holy @#$%

Its a Grace sighting.

Next thing Kegboy and Tim will show up

grace
02-12-2013, 06:55 PM
Holy @#$%

Its a Grace sighting.

Next thing Kegboy and Tim will show up

I talk to Kegboy every day. I sure do miss Tim though. :cry:

owl
02-12-2013, 07:25 PM
I had the opportunity to take my mom (she was a huge fan) to several games when she became handicapped and had to go in a wheelchair. I had very similar experiences that you did. They were great, really accomadating, they went above and beyond in just helping me to get my mom inside the place and make sure we had good seats.

changing topics - I remember the first time I walked into Conseco filedhouse, it was the very first Pacers game there in November 1999 when the Pacer splayed the Celtics. Just walking into the entry pavilion took my breath away, and I got a little choked up thinking back to all the struggles the frnachise had been through up to that point. I walked pretty much the whole building, went to the very top row of the balcony, looked outside the windows and was like a kid at Christmas. still love the place

Fourteen years later and the place is still a gem.

Sollozzo
02-12-2013, 07:31 PM
Fourteen years later and the place is still a gem.

It really is. PS&E should be commended for how spotless the place looks. It looks like it opened yesterday and that it's barely been used. There are hardly any signs of wear on the place. The new scoreboard and LED band have kept us up with the Jones's so to speak. The place is just beautiful. Every time I go in it, I can't help but marvel how special it is.

Lucas Oil, while maybe not quite as unique as Conseco, is an absolute gem too. We are lucky to have two premier venues in Indy.

Roaming Gnome
02-12-2013, 09:18 PM
Rome wasn't "re"built in a day. Winning and time will cure what ails the franchise. I spread the good word and will of the franchise when I get a chance, but if they don't want to jump on the bandwagon... That is their loss, not mine.

OlBlu
02-12-2013, 09:40 PM
Rome wasn't "re"built in a day. Winning and time will cure what ails the franchise. I spread the good word and will of the franchise when I get a chance, but if they don't want to jump on the bandwagon... That is their loss, not mine.

Yes, but it is enevitable that the players will age and we will have to rebuild and lose the fans all over again. This is vicious cycle for a small market team that can't make trades for star players....:cool: ...

rm1369
02-12-2013, 10:16 PM
I'm probably a big part of the problem. I've been a Pacer fan for as long as I can remember, yet I've not been to a single game this year. I haven't even watched them much on TV. I don't believe the team is filled with thugs. I don't think ticket prices are too high. I've just realized I don't care much for the NBA anymore. There are many things I don't like, but the main issue I have with the NBA is what it doesnt provide me - hope. Regardless of regular season record, I don't believe this team can win a title. I'm not just talking this year. I'm talking about the next 4-5 years or until it undergoes massive changes. Superstars win in the NBA - Pacers don't have one. It's that simple. It's not that I enjoy a front runner or am disinterested unless my team is great. (I looked forward to this past Colts season more than any that I can remember and I only expected about 5-6 wins) I either want to feel like my team is a true contender or that they are building towards it. I guess the best way i can explain it is that, IMO, the Colts will win another title before the Pacers win their first. I don't say that as a comment on management or ownership of either team. I say that purely as a comment on the two leagues. The worst team in the NFL last year will win a title before a Pacers team that made it into the second round (one that is rising, not declining). And I'd say it even without Luck in place as the Colts QB.

rabid
02-12-2013, 10:42 PM
This thread is a joke. We are far from ignorant. We have really good sport franchises, really college programs all over the state. We're spoiled, not ignorant



ig·no·rant <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf" width="17" height="15" id="speaker" align="texttop" quality="high" loop="false" menu="false" salign="t" allowscriptaccess="sameDomain" wmode="transparent" flashvars="soundUrl=http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/audio/luna/I00/I0029800.mp3"> uhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngnt] Show IPA[/FONT]
adjective1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: [I]an ignorant man.

2.lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quantum+physics).

3.uninformed; unaware.

4.


due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.


If by "we" you mean the people on PD, or other hardcore Indy sports fans, I'd agree. But if by "we" you mean the folks posting facebook comments etc. on the articles mentioned in this thread (which if I'm not mistaken is why this thread is here) - presumably "average" Indy folk - then there is a frightening amount of ignorance here.

Comments such as "ticket prices are too high" - when club level seats are freaking twelve dollars - are ignorant. As are comments like "the NBA is full of thugs," "too much of my tax money already is going to that billionaire Simon" etc.

Strong belief in incorrect facts = ignorance

Peck
02-12-2013, 11:01 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aGGIQQKKD0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Evan_The_Dude
02-13-2013, 12:49 PM
Indianapolis wants to grow into a bigger city and do big city things (i.e. hosting the Superbowl), and unfortunately one thing the city needs to look at is with big city actions comes big city problems. Rising crime comes with rising popularity. I can't tell you how many people I've met that didn't live here even five years ago. So yes, the crime is rising but using that as an excuse to not attend a Pacers game is absurd. The police presence is very strong downtown before and after games. Some of those people act like Lucas Oil isn't downtown or something.

OlBlu
02-13-2013, 06:31 PM
The new CBA was supposed to work for small market teams. I think it does just the opposite. Teams like the Thunder had to jetison Harden and Memphis had to move Gay because of the fierce penalty for going over the salary cap. The big market teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Boston and Miami don't care if they go over the cap and pay a huge penalty if they have a chance to win. They can afford it...:cool: ...

BillS
02-13-2013, 06:40 PM
The new CBA was supposed to work for small market teams. I think it does just the opposite. Teams like the Thunder had to jetison Harden and Memphis had to move Gay because of the fierce penalty for going over the salary cap. The big market teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Boston and Miami don't care if they go over the cap and pay a huge penalty if they have a chance to win. They can afford it...:cool: ...

But at least if they do so it will mean the smaller teams have some way to stay in business.

Look, there was simply no way other than a hard cap to keep a team like the Lakers with a TV deal that matches the revenue of the entire rest of the league put together from buying championships, and the players would never accept a hard cap. All you can do is make sure that the ones who CAN'T do that have a chance of surviving and at least putting a competitive team on the floor.

OlBlu
02-13-2013, 07:22 PM
But at least if they do so it will mean the smaller teams have some way to stay in business.

Look, there was simply no way other than a hard cap to keep a team like the Lakers with a TV deal that matches the revenue of the entire rest of the league put together from buying championships, and the players would never accept a hard cap. All you can do is make sure that the ones who CAN'T do that have a chance of surviving and at least putting a competitive team on the floor.

I think that is right...... but it means that the small markets will compete for a championship about once every 25 to 30 years......:cool: ...

rm1369
02-13-2013, 07:35 PM
But at least if they do so it will mean the smaller teams have some way to stay in business.

Look, there was simply no way other than a hard cap to keep a team like the Lakers with a TV deal that matches the revenue of the entire rest of the league put together from buying championships, and the players would never accept a hard cap. All you can do is make sure that the ones who CAN'T do that have a chance of surviving and at least putting a competitive team on the floor.

It would have likely cost a season, but the players would have eventually accepted a hard cap and no max contracts, IMO. To many players live check to check. That would have been the best way to true competitive balance. The league just didn't have the stomach to do what it would take. I don't believe Stern gives a damn about balance anyway.

Trophy
02-13-2013, 11:03 PM
"We want to give back and give away free tickets and have a welcoming family atmosphere," said Hibbert. "Whether it takes two years, five years, ten years to get it packed again, we're patient and we're just going to keep winning."

BLF will be filled up nightly very soon. The level the Pacers are playing at, led by Paul George, is something too irresistible to not attend and be apart of for many years.

BlueNGold
02-13-2013, 11:06 PM
BLF will be filled up nightly very soon. The level the Pacers are playing at, led by Paul George, is something too irresistible to not attend and be apart of for many years.

I wish it worked that way. What the Pacers really need is a real rivalry in the playoffs. Not first round exits or second round exits where the competition is toying with them. We have to have a real shot at winning it all. Only then will you see it really packed to the gills.

Trophy
02-14-2013, 01:24 AM
I wish it worked that way. What the Pacers really need is a real rivalry in the playoffs. Not first round exits or second round exits where the competition is toying with them. We have to have a real shot at winning it all. Only then will you see it really packed to the gills.

I'm pretty sure that's the case now and for the future...

This team is absolutely for real and they have and are what you just stated they "need".

Being the best defensive team and then a lot more, says a lot. The Pacers have a lot going for them now and for the future, including a good shot at winning it all.

OlBlu
02-14-2013, 10:31 AM
I'm pretty sure that's the case now and for the future...

This team is absolutely for real and they have and are what you just stated they "need".

Being the best defensive team and then a lot more, says a lot. The Pacers have a lot going for them now and for the future, including a good shot at winning it all.

I like the team as it is and it is about as good of a job as small market management could do. I don't see them being anywhere close to winning it all and a first round playoff series win may be there limit. The reason is the same as it has always been. They don't have a superstar to go to in the last two minutes to will them to a win like Miami, the Knicks and even Boston have.... That will be the difference and that is why they don't really have a "shot" at winning it all except in the minds of their most hard core fans who love them.....:cool: ...

Sollozzo
02-14-2013, 11:00 AM
I like the team as it is and it is about as good of a job as small market management could do. I don't see them being anywhere close to winning it all and a first round playoff series win may be there limit. The reason is the same as it has always been. They don't have a superstar to go to in the last two minutes to will them to a win like Miami, the Knicks and even Boston have.... That will be the difference and that is why they don't really have a "shot" at winning it all except in the minds of their most hard core fans who love them.....:cool: ...


I generally agree with this.

The main reason the Pacers went on so many deep playoff runs from 1994-2000 was because they had a player in Reggie who could elevate his offensive game to an elite level in the playoffs and single-handedly win games. With the exception of the unique 2004 Pistons, history has shown time and time again that having an elite offensive player is what wins in the playoffs (and even that Pistons team had Billups and Rip who could turn it on): Lebron, Dirk, Mamba, Truth, Duncan, 45, Shaq, Hakeem, etc etc. Defense is important and defense helps win games, but most teams can play good defense if they have a good scheme and give maximum effort, though obviously some will be much better than others. But only a select few are capable of elevating their offensive game to an elite level. In the playoffs, you need that one guy who can will you to a victory in the fourth quarter. That's what we had in Reggie, and that's why we went on so many deep runs.

Right now, we don't have anyone like Reggie. We have multiple players who are decent at scoring, but there's no one on the roster who can go out and win you a game like Reggie did. I'm not saying that we have to have a player that will get you 25 fourth quarter points, but it would be nice to have someone who you could count on to dump 30 in a crucial playoff game. That was Reggie.

I don't think that a soon-to-be 30 Danny Granger coming off of knee trouble is going to ever be that player. Our best hope is that Paul George turns into that guy. He is only 22 and has drastically improved his offensive game in every season he's played. The sky is the limit for him.

Bball
02-14-2013, 03:44 PM
You need a player who gives you the power to dream.

This is a player who shines in the biggest moments. A player that everyone on the court and in the arena knows is getting the ball and yet nobody on either side doubts his ability to make something good happen even in that situation.

BlueNGold
02-14-2013, 11:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that's the case now and for the future...

This team is absolutely for real and they have and are what you just stated they "need".

Being the best defensive team and then a lot more, says a lot. The Pacers have a lot going for them now and for the future, including a good shot at winning it all.

I somewhat agree with OlBlu, but I think your post has some merit too. I think the Pacers, if things go just right, have a small chance. But Paul has to turn into a Paul Pierce type. Granger needs to return to form and mesh. Roy needs to at least return to form on offense if not actually take a step forward. DWest and Hill just need to be very, very solid and make clutch shots. If 80% of that happens, I think we actually do have a shot.

But back to attendance, most casual fans do not see that as a possibility...and some hard core people disagree with that too....and they might be right.