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Coopdog23
02-10-2013, 03:16 PM
I say Burke, but a lot of people are saying Oladipo.

cdash
02-10-2013, 03:21 PM
Fun little hypothetical. I will go ahead and get it out of the way: We won't be in a position to draft either one, but just argument's sake, I'll play.

I would take Oladipo, because I think he's a better two way player than Burke.

Thread prediction: This thread will quickly morph into IU fans being called homers.

Steagles
02-10-2013, 03:26 PM
I'd take Oladipo just because he's got an NBA style game already and will become the better pro. Given that, he'll be gone in the lottery. So unless we deal Danny for a higher first (which I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to if it got us Oladipo and let us resign everyone) we won't get him.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

Eddie Gill
02-10-2013, 03:27 PM
What, no Terone Johnson love?

OlBlu
02-10-2013, 03:32 PM
Fun little hypothetical. I will go ahead and get it out of the way: We won't be in a position to draft either one, but just argument's sake, I'll play.

I would take Oladipo, because I think he's a better two way player than Burke.

Thread prediction: This thread will quickly morph into IU fans being called homers.

There is a good reason for that......:cool: ... Hey, maybe we should try to get Gordon.....

Derek2k3
02-10-2013, 03:36 PM
Fun little hypothetical. I will go ahead and get it out of the way: We won't be in a position to draft either one, but just argument's sake, I'll play.

I would take Oladipo, because I think he's a better two way player than Burke.

Thread prediction: This thread will quickly morph into IU fans being called homers.

I HATE IU, and I'd take Victor. Burke, while good, is too reliant on an inconsistent jumper/having the ball in his hands. Victor can play off the ball much better, has better energy, and seems to be much smarter with the ball. Burke gets in his head that he needs to take a ton of big shots/gets caught up in the one on one mentality.

I think Oladipo could be an all-defensive team type of player as well. Tons of upside.

Heisenberg
02-10-2013, 03:38 PM
What, no Terone Johnson love?

I wouldn't be all that upset if he decided to go pro. As long as the Pacers don't draft him anyway.

PacersHomer
02-10-2013, 03:40 PM
Burke because there's a 1% chance he'll still be left when we pick, unlike Oladipo where there is 0%.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 03:43 PM
Fun little hypothetical. I will go ahead and get it out of the way: We won't be in a position to draft either one, but just argument's sake, I'll play.

I would take Oladipo, because I think he's a better two way player than Burke.

Thread prediction: This thread will quickly morph into IU fans being called homers.
To be fair, whenever there is a player from the State of Indiana, every(and by every I mean a lot of before you freak out) Pacers fan from Indiana is infatuated with them.

See Eric Gordon, Mike Conely, Eric Gordon, Gordan Hayword, Greg Oded, Eric Gordon, and pretty much every other player from Indiana in history.

cdash
02-10-2013, 03:47 PM
To be fair, whenever there is a player from the State of Indiana, every(and by every I mean a lot of before you freak out) Pacers fan from Indiana is infatuated with them.

See Eric Gordon, Mike Conely, Eric Gordon, Gordan Hayword, Greg Oded, Eric Gordon, and pretty much every other player from Indiana in history.


Victor Oladipo is from the DC area.

OlBlu
02-10-2013, 03:52 PM
Victor Oladipo is from the DC area.

But he plays for IU so every IU fan will want the Pacers to sign him. I know Burke will be drafted higher but than won't matter to IU fans. They still want Alford....:cool: ...

dal9
02-10-2013, 03:54 PM
Slightly less explosive Fred Jones

shags
02-10-2013, 03:59 PM
Shut, I'll go further than that on Oladipo. I don't think he'll be there when the Pistons pick. If Oladipo shoots well in pre-draft workouts, I think he'll go in the top 5 and be the first IU player off the board. As p4e stated in another thread, it's a similar rise to Russell Westbrook (not that I'm comparing the two).

As for Burke, nothing that he does on the court changes this fact: He's 6 foot tall. He doesn't have elite speed (ala Ty Lawson) and he's not Chris Paul, which limits his ceiling as far as draft stock goes. He'll probably still be gone by the time the Pacers pick though.

boombaby1987
02-10-2013, 04:03 PM
I would never draft any thug from IU ever.......:cool: ...

You bring up race discussions in the Attendance thread....and then you call Oladipo a thug.

:buttkick:

Dgreenwell3
02-10-2013, 04:18 PM
I would never draft any thug from IU ever.......:cool: ...

The man who calls people racist for saying low bball IQ just called a black man a thug. Hypocritical much? And of course, admins do nothing...shocker

BlueCollarColts
02-10-2013, 04:24 PM
I would never draft any thug from IU ever.......:cool: ...
ok, now this is just poor and sad, calling someone you don't even know a thug? Everything Ive heard is that he is a good guy

Slick Pinkham
02-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Slightly less explosive Fred Jones

Fred Jones could jump like VO, I'll give you that. . Other than that... well, Fred couldn't guard anyone, couldn't shoot anything he couldn't dunk, and had poor handles. Vic needs to tighten up his handles too.

The kid works hard, is intelligent, plays smart, is wicked athletic, has 2-guard size, and is ready to defend NBA players right now.

shags
02-10-2013, 04:39 PM
Fred Jones could jump like VO, I'll give you that. . Other than that... well, Fred couldn't guard anyone, couldn't shoot anything he couldn't dunk, and had poor handles. Vic needs to tighten up his handles too.

The kid works hard, is intelligent, plays smart, is wicked athletic, has 2-guard size, and is ready to defend NBA players right now.

Good post. I was thinking Tony Allen who can score.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 04:49 PM
Victor Oladipo is from the DC area.

...and where does he play college basketball?

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 04:56 PM
Based on nbadraft.net and their current mock draft, players I would take that fall after the Pacers pick over Burke and Oladipo are:

Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
CJ Leslie
Lorenzo Brown
Patric Young

I like Gorgui Dieng, but we don't really need a Center. Lucas Nogueira interests me as well, I don't know much about him - however we could just develop him in the NBDL for a few years or keep him overseas. Seems very athletic for a big guy, if we give him a good coach, could turn out to be a steal.

cdash
02-10-2013, 05:00 PM
...and where does he play college basketball?

You said "from Indiana" and then listed a bunch of players that are from Indiana. I just corrected you.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:01 PM
Based on nbadraft.net and their current mock draft, players I would take that fall after the Pacers pick over Burke and Oladipo are:

Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
CJ Leslie
Lorenzo Brown
Patric Young

I like Gorgui Dieng, but we don't really need a Center. Lucas Nogueira interests me as well, I don't know much about him - however we could just develop him in the NBDL for a few years or keep him overseas. Seems very athletic for a big guy, if we give him a good coach, could turn out to be a steal.
Are you saying that you would take all five of these players over Victor and Trey?

cdash
02-10-2013, 05:01 PM
Based on nbadraft.net and their current mock draft, players I would take that fall after the Pacers pick over Burke and Oladipo are:

Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
CJ Leslie
Lorenzo Brown
Patric Young

I like Gorgui Dieng, but we don't really need a Center. Lucas Nogueira interests me as well, I don't know much about him - however we could just develop him in the NBDL for a few years or keep him overseas. Seems very athletic for a big guy, if we give him a good coach, could turn out to be a steal.

Wait, are you telling me that you would pick all of those players ahead of Burke and Oladipo? Wow. I guess when Carolina sucks you don't watch much college basketball.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:04 PM
I'm thinking that only one guy out of that group can defend at an NBA level. Can you pick him out?

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:04 PM
You said "from Indiana" and then listed a bunch of players that are from Indiana. I just corrected you.

I meant, they have been in Indiana at some point before going to the NBA - playing at IU counts in my book as being from Indiana. I see what your saying, but you knew what I meant.

Hoop
02-10-2013, 05:04 PM
For what it's worth, DraftExpress has us taking Victor Oladipo.

Shade
02-10-2013, 05:07 PM
Oladipo, and not just because I'm an IU fan. Burke is a terrible defender.

cdash
02-10-2013, 05:08 PM
I meant, they have been in Indiana at some point before going to the NBA - playing at IU counts in my book as being from Indiana. I see what your saying, but you knew what I meant.

Yes, I understood your point. I understood it before you ever made it, which is why I predicted this thread would take the turn that it has--people arguing that this board overvalues players that went to IU.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:14 PM
For what it's worth, DraftExpress has us taking Victor Oladipo.

Victor won't be there when we pick. He is going to be in the top 5. I'm not sure but he might get picked before Ben Mclemore the way Kansas has been tearing it up.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:16 PM
Wait, are you telling me that you would pick all of those players ahead of Burke and Oladipo? Wow. I guess when Carolina sucks you don't watch much college basketball.

Burke kinda interests me actually.

Oladipo does not. I don't think he is skilled enough offensively to really make an impact. He is a hard worker and good defender, two things I admire - but still undersized. Well, he is listed at 6'4 some places and 6'5 others - usually(not always) its the shorter one. If he is 6'4, I wouldn't want him because even though he can defend SGs, if his main attribute is a defender, then its still a disadvantage.

Most players at the end of the first round don't have a long career in the NBA, the best thing to do is find someone who can specialize in something. CJ Leslie kinda reminds me of a shorter Josh Howard. He is a solid all around player and pretty clutch. I love Lorenzo Brown's size, he has a lot of potential, but not where he should be skill wise. Tim Hardaway Jr is clutch and can really shoot the ball - could be a nice utility player in certain situations. Doug McDermott has just been amazing in college - he is a smart player and does just about everything. I've already said why I like Patric Young.

EDIT: I am aware that Oladipo has improved on offense - however, he is on a team with a lot of weapons. I'm not sure how well that will translate to the NBA outside of his slashing ability.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:16 PM
Yes, I understood your point. I understood it before you ever made it, which is why I predicted this thread would take the turn that it has--people arguing that this board overvalues players that went to IU.
Are you saying that it isn't true?

cdash
02-10-2013, 05:20 PM
Are you saying that it isn't true?

Not nearly to the extent that many people think.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:20 PM
Burke kinda interests me actually.

Oladipo does not. I don't think he is skilled enough offensively to really make an impact. He is a hard worker and good defender, two things I admire - but still undersized. Well, he is listed at 6'4 some places and 6'5 others - usually(not always) its the shorter one. If he is 6'4, I wouldn't want him because even though he can defend SGs, if his main attribute is a defender, then its still a disadvantage.

Most players at the end of the first round don't have a long career in the NBA, the best thing to do is find someone who can specialize in something. CJ Leslie kinda reminds me of a shorter Josh Howard. He is a solid all around player and pretty clutch. I love Lorenzo Brown's size, he has a lot of potential, but not where he should be skill wise. Tim Hardaway Jr is clutch and can really shoot the ball - could be a nice utility player in certain situations. Doug McDermott has just been amazing in college - he is a smart player and does just about everything. I've already said why I like Patric Young.
Ah, maybe you check out the box score of today's IU game before you say Victor can't score the ball. LMAO.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:22 PM
Ah, maybe you out to check out the box score of today's IU game before you say Victor can't score the ball. LMAO.

I edited my post to say I think a lot of it is attributed to the fact that he is on a stacked team. I'm not sure how well he would do against NBA defenders.

Laugh your *** off all you'd like...when he doesn't go "top 5" like you claimed, we will see who was closer to being right.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:25 PM
I edited my post to say I think a lot of it is attributed to the fact that he is on a stacked team. I'm not sure how well he would do against NBA defenders.

Laugh your *** off all you'd like...when he doesn't go "top 5" like you claimed, we will see who was closer to being right.
Hope I'm wrong. I really do. If he is there at 21 that would be outstanding.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:26 PM
I will say, I know a lot of you have seen a lot more of Oladipo than I have and maybe I should watch him play some more.

I'm curious though, do ya'll see him being able to consistently score on NBA defenses? Granted, the Pacers are a top defense, but I just don't see him being able score on us. Even the Bobcats, one on one with Gerald Henderson(who I hate)...I just don't see him being able to create for himself. Again, maybe I just need to watch him more. He is smart, I'll give him that, but in terms of creating his own offense I don't see it.

cdash
02-10-2013, 05:27 PM
I edited my post to say I think a lot of it is attributed to the fact that he is on a stacked team. I'm not sure how well he would do against NBA defenders.

Laugh your *** off all you'd like...when he doesn't go "top 5" like you claimed, we will see who was closer to being right.

Name your wager--I don't think he will go top 5 but I can guarantee you that none of those turkeys you listed will be drafted ahead of Oladipo.

xIndyFan
02-10-2013, 05:30 PM
Draft Express has Burke at #18 and Oladipo @ #21, which is the Pacer's slot in their mock. So I will say Burke. But I really have no clue. Personally I would like another big.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:31 PM
Dr. Awesome,
He is more than a slasher. That was his game last year. This year he has developed a really good mid-range pull up. Chime in if I'm wrong, but the kid has worked on his game and deserves some credit.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:34 PM
Name your wager--I don't think he will go top 5 but I can guarantee you that none of those turkeys you listed will be drafted ahead of Oladipo.

I didn't say they would go before him, I said from what I know - I'd prefer them.

Granted, I have watched the people I listed play a lot more than I have of Oladipo, so again, I'm saying I could be wrong.

Even if he is available when we pick - we don't need him. Nor any of the wings I listed. We need a PG or PF.

clownskull
02-10-2013, 05:39 PM
vic looks a solid 6-5 and he has GREAT wingspan that allows him to play bigger than his 6-5 height. he is just fine as an sg in the pros.

OlBlu
02-10-2013, 05:53 PM
Victor won't be there when we pick. He is going to be in the top 5. I'm not sure but he might get picked before Ben Mclemore the way Kansas has been tearing it up.

Not only will he not be in the top five, he will not be in the top ten. He might creep into 15 but most mock drafts have him at 20 or just a big higher..... It wouldn't take much to move up to get him. Burke will be taken just ahead of him by four or five picks according to what I have read.....:cool: ...

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:53 PM
I didn't say they would go before him, I said from what I know - I'd prefer them.

Granted, I have watched the people I listed play a lot more than I have of Oladipo, so again, I'm saying I could be wrong.

Even if he is available when we pick - we don't need him. Nor any of the wings I listed. We need a PG or PF.
We should draft the BPA.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 05:55 PM
Not only will he not be in the top five, he will not be in the top ten. He might creep into 15 but most mock drafts have him at 20 or just a big higher..... It wouldn't take much to move up to get him. Burke will be taken just ahead of him by four or five picks according to what I have read.....:cool: ...
What you read today won't be what happens at draft time.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 05:59 PM
We should draft the BPA.

Thats fine when you don't have needs. Oladipo isn't going to play above Granger, George, or Stephenson though.

We need a backup 4, Patric Young could be a nice player to have off the bench. We also need a backup PG.

Downtown Bang!
02-10-2013, 06:01 PM
Victor won't go top five but likely in the late lottery. Even with this years significant improvement he will be too limited offensively to go that high.

To play along with the thread I say Victor and then I'll up the ante and say pick Aaron Craft with (assuming we own it) the 2nd round pick in 2014. That back court rotation with PG, GH, Lance etc. would be BA on defensive end of the court.

OlBlu
02-10-2013, 06:02 PM
What you read today won't be what happens at draft time.

It won't change enough to get your man in the top five.....:cool: ... He has a teammate who should be picked ahead of him...

shags
02-10-2013, 06:05 PM
The key with Oladipo will be two things. His measurements at the combine, specifically his wingspan, and his pre-draft workouts. If he measures out with a wingspan of 6'10" to 7'0", and can prove in workouts that he can hit the NBA 3, he'll skyrocket on draft boards. He's shooting 1.7 3's a game this season and hitting at a 52.6% clip. He's already proven he can be an elite NBA defender. That's why I think he'll end up being a top 5 pick.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:07 PM
The key with Oladipo will be two things. His measurements at the combine, specifically his wingspan, and his pre-draft workouts. If he measures out with a wingspan of 6'10" to 7'0", and can prove in workouts that he can hit the NBA 3, he'll skyrocket on draft boards. He's shooting 1.7 3's a game this season and hitting at a 52.6% clip. He's already proven he can be an elite NBA defender. That's why I think he'll end up being a top 5 pick.
Hey shags, I think we might have to save this post for future reference.

Heisenberg
02-10-2013, 06:09 PM
He's already proven he can be an elite NBA defender.

He has?

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 06:11 PM
He has?

He's from Indiana. Of course.

;-) cdash.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:12 PM
He has?

Good point. But do you have an opinion on who is a better defender, right now, in college basketball at his position?

Heisenberg
02-10-2013, 06:13 PM
Good point. But do you have an opinion on who is a better defender, right now, in college basketball at his position?

I'm not knocking him, he's a great defender, probably the best in the country. But he hasn't proven he can do anything in the NBA, certainly not an elite level. That's all I'm saying.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:15 PM
I'm not knocking him, he's a great defender, probably the best in the country. But he hasn't proven he can do anything in the NBA, certainly not an elite level. That's all I'm saying.
He can dunk. That should translate easy. LOL.

shags
02-10-2013, 06:17 PM
He has?

Here's one example:

https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/297939527652216832

And my guess on the 4 players: Trey Burke (averaging 18.2 ppg), Tim Hardaway, Jr. (16.0 ppg), Nik Stauskas (12.1 ppg), and Glenn Robinson III (11.3 ppg).

Maybe I should have said has the "potential to be" an elite NBA defender, ala Tony Allen.

Heisenberg
02-10-2013, 06:19 PM
Here's one example:

https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/297939527652216832

And my guess on the 4 players: Trey Burke (averaging 18.2 ppg), Tim Hardaway, Jr. (16.0 ppg), Nik Stauskas (12.1 ppg), and Glenn Robinson III (11.3 ppg).defending college players well isn't strong evidence of defending NBA players at an elite level

Justin Tyme
02-10-2013, 06:20 PM
We should draft the BPA.


Ok, so which did Bird do when he drafted Chumlee, BPA or did he draft for position?

shags
02-10-2013, 06:20 PM
defending college players well isn't strong evidence of defending NBA players at an elite level

I'll give you that, especially this season, where college basketball is very mediocre.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Here's one example:

https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/297939527652216832

And my guess on the 4 players: Trey Burke (averaging 18.2 ppg), Tim Hardaway, Jr. (16.0 ppg), Nik Stauskas (12.1 ppg), and Glenn Robinson III (11.3 ppg).
Come on shags. He has got be BE IN the NBA to guard NBA players. We aren't gonna win this argument with Heisy.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:23 PM
Ok, so which did Bird do when he drafted Chumlee, BPA or did he draft for position?

You would have to ask the Birdman.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:29 PM
defending college players well isn't strong evidence of defending NBA players at an elite level
I'm thinking about this comment, and I do believe that the ability to create deflections on defense is a good measuring stick to compare a current college player to a player from the past. I know Victor has compared to D Wade on that measure, using the same coach. Of course it wasn't guarding the same players, but it does show his skillset on that measure. Do you agree Heisy?

dal9
02-10-2013, 06:31 PM
Ok, so which did Bird do when he drafted Chumlee, BPA or did he draft for position?

BPA.

And by that I mean Best Plumlee Available.

Justin Tyme
02-10-2013, 06:36 PM
You would have to ask the Birdman.


If I asked the Birdman, I'd be asking Chris Anderson, and I doubt he knows.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-10-2013, 06:41 PM
If I asked the Birdman, I'd be asking Chris Anderson, and I doubt he knows.

I would say he was drafting for position. How do you think he will work out for us?

Justin Tyme
02-10-2013, 06:47 PM
BPA.

And by that I mean Best Plumlee Available.


LOL!

So I'm guessing you are saying Bird drafted Chumlee by positional need. A b/u 5, since Mahinmi wasn't gotten until later by Walsh.

I believe p4e feels there were numerous better BPA than Chumlee still available.

From what I saw of Arnet Moultrie play in the Philly game, he looked like a nice late 1st rd pick. I know one game is little to make a decision on, but Moultrie plays so little for Philly I've not noticed him in a previous 76ers game. He may not be any better than Chumlee, but he took advantage of his PT against the Pacers.

Trader Joe
02-10-2013, 07:02 PM
Slightly less explosive Fred Jones

lol Fred Jones was barely 6'2"

Trader Joe
02-10-2013, 07:03 PM
Based on nbadraft.net and their current mock draft, players I would take that fall after the Pacers pick over Burke and Oladipo are:

Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
CJ Leslie
Lorenzo Brown
Patric Young

I like Gorgui Dieng, but we don't really need a Center. Lucas Nogueira interests me as well, I don't know much about him - however we could just develop him in the NBDL for a few years or keep him overseas. Seems very athletic for a big guy, if we give him a good coach, could turn out to be a steal.

You would take Tim Hardaway Jr. over Burke AND Oladipo? That's hilarious.

Mr.Hinds
02-10-2013, 07:05 PM
If Oladipo's shot continues to go in like it has this season, then I would guess he will atleast be a good corner three shooter in the NBA. I think he will be able to contribute offensively in the NBA if he comes off the bench and is only the second or third option then.

The biggest thing Oladipo has going for him coming into the draft will be his love of defense and general improvement through college. Unless he scores 18+ for the rest of the season and also gets B1G DPoY then I don't see him going in the top 5 or top 10. It would also help if IU makes atleast the final four.

The last thing that will have a big impact on his draft status is his combine measurements for sure. I think he'll come out slightly taller than 6'4 with a wingspan of about 6'8 or 6'10

Trader Joe
02-10-2013, 07:05 PM
He's from Indiana. Of course.

;-) cdash.

Shags is a Pistons fan

Trader Joe
02-10-2013, 07:09 PM
I would take Victor mainly for his D. Burke's D looked really suspect against both IU and OSU.

Oladipo showed today against OSU why he is an NBA player. He put the ball in from everywhere on the court. Hit 3s around screens, pull up jumpers, slashing to the hole, calling his offensive game limited anymore simply isn't true. In fact, it shows that your probably haven't watched much of him this season. Oladipo is shooting 65% from the floor, now either everyone else on IU is just that good and he is getting that many easy looks or there is certainly something he is doing right offensively. Compares his %'s to guys like Hardaway, Burke, Russ Smith and other "elite" guards. Heck, Vic even wipes the floor with McLemore's %'s.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 07:23 PM
Based on nbadraft.net and their current mock draft, players I would take that fall after the Pacers pick over Burke and Oladipo are:

Doug McDermott
Tim Hardaway Jr
CJ Leslie
Lorenzo Brown
Patric Young

I like Gorgui Dieng, but we don't really need a Center. Lucas Nogueira interests me as well, I don't know much about him - however we could just develop him in the NBDL for a few years or keep him overseas. Seems very athletic for a big guy, if we give him a good coach, could turn out to be a steal.

You are nuts if you would take any of those guys over Vic. Doug McDermott is so flawed anyone suggesting taking him over Vic needs to reassess the situation.


I agree with Shags and I said as much last week when it's all said and done Victor will likely be a fringe 5 top guy. I know I like him a hell of a lot more than Dion Waiters and other guys who have quick risen the last few years.


But coming from the guy who was obsessed with Kendall Marshall as a NBA player not so surprising.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 07:43 PM
But coming from the guy who was obsessed with Kendall Marshall as a NBA player not so surprising.

Well, to start - I openly admitted that I haven't seen Vic play as much as I have the guys listed, and that I could be wrong. But troll away...

Secondly, I said he would be a solid backup. I hardly see that as being obsessed. I love Kendall Marshall, still think he is one of the best passers in the NBA.

He has actually gotten time with the new coach - over the last 4 games(where he has gotten at least 19 minutes) he has shot 7-16, 4-9 from 3 point land, 12 assists, and 4 turnovers. Obviously not great, but for a guy getting his first meaningful minutes in his NBA career, those numbers aren't bad.

I'd say he is a lot closer to being a good backup PG than Will Barton is to averaging 20 ppg...

cdash
02-10-2013, 07:56 PM
Well, to start - I openly admitted that I haven't seen Vic play as much as I have the guys listed, and that I could be wrong. But troll away...

Secondly, I said he would be a solid backup. I hardly see that as being obsessed. I love Kendall Marshall, still think he is one of the best passers in the NBA.

He has actually gotten time with the new coach - over the last 4 games(where he has gotten at least 19 minutes) he has shot 7-16, 4-9 from 3 point land, 12 assists, and 4 turnovers. Obviously not great, but for a guy getting his first meaningful minutes in his NBA career, those numbers aren't bad.

I'd say he is a lot closer to being a good backup PG than Will Barton is to averaging 20 ppg...

:laugh:

Yeah, I still haven't jumped off the Kendall Marshall bandwagon. I liked him too and still think he can be a decent pro.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 07:56 PM
But coming from the guy who was obsessed with Kendall Marshall as a NBA player not so surprising.
I will say, comments like that are beneath you. At least I thought so.

Whatever though, I really used to love this board. Lately it has become like every other sports forum though where you can't have a regular debate without someone trying to make you feel like a jackass.

EDIT: To be clear, I can be guilty of it too when someone refuses to have a logical discussion about something. I've been openly saying that I probably just need to watch him more.

dal9
02-10-2013, 07:57 PM
If Oladipo's shot continues to go in like it has this season, then I would guess he will atleast be a good corner three shooter in the NBA. I think he will be able to contribute offensively in the NBA if he comes off the bench and is only the second or third option then.


Well, yes, but there has been literally (and I mean literally) one player in the history of the NBA who has shot the 3 at a clip that Oladipo is shooting it at, for an entire season. So odds are against it.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 07:59 PM
:laugh:

Yeah, I still haven't jumped off the Kendall Marshall bandwagon. I liked him too and still think he can be a decent pro.
Its funny man, going back to RealGM I have probably known you longer than anyone else here. I feel like we used to agree on just about everything on RealGM, then we both came here, and Ty Lawson happened haha. Now we see differently on a lot of things(thats not a bad thing). Even when we disagree though, you have always been one of my favorite posters here.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 08:04 PM
Well, to start - I openly admitted that I haven't seen Vic play as much as I have the guys listed, and that I could be wrong. But troll away...

Secondly, I said he would be a solid backup. I hardly see that as being obsessed. I love Kendall Marshall, still think he is one of the best passers in the NBA.

He has actually gotten time with the new coach - over the last 4 games(where he has gotten at least 19 minutes) he has shot 7-16, 4-9 from 3 point land, 12 assists, and 4 turnovers. Obviously not great, but for a guy getting his first meaningful minutes in his NBA career, those numbers aren't bad.

I'd say he is a lot closer to being a good backup PG than Will Barton is to averaging 20 ppg...

Will Barton was a project I said that then wait a few years we will see who is the better value Barton or Marshall. I feel bad for Will dude has to play a lot because his teams bench sucks and he isnt ready. Ya I watched Marhall play the other night he played 20 minutes and had 3 assists 2 TOs I dont believe he scored I wanna say it was vs GS. Was playing just like he did at UNC stays at halfcourt basically in the halfcourt offense just not my type of guy/ Never see guys cherry pick like him kind of weird. He never got below the free throw line the whole game.


Tim Hardaway and CJ are the only two guys on that list I like. I really like Tim but would need to learn to control him I wouldnt take him over Vic though Vic is gonna be a special guy at the next level IMO.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 08:07 PM
Did you really just use one night as an example?

How about the game before where he scored 11 with 4 assists against Memphis? Again, these have been the first real/non garbage time games in his NBA career and your making it sound like he is a finished project.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 08:13 PM
Did you really just use one night as an example?

How about the game before where he scored 11 with 4 assists against Memphis? Again, these have been the first real/non garbage time games in his NBA career and your making it sound like he is a finished project.


It was more about the play style than points or assists the whole game on offense he never got beyond the free throw line. I agree it will take him time and he will get it. I could cite examples from his Dleaguee game that were not good lol. I have to wonder if Gentry was fired for not playing the lottery pick? While he may not be a finished product I dont see an area in his game that can be really improved that will allow him to make a jump to a starting caliber guard. I think he can become a solid backup but he is just to limited to become a good staring PG IMO. Obviously the Suns disagree with me and I hope they are right.

Mr.Hinds
02-10-2013, 08:15 PM
Well, yes, but there has been literally (and I mean literally) one player in the history of the NBA who has shot the 3 at a clip that Oladipo is shooting it at, for an entire season. So odds are against it.

If you think I meant he'd continue to shoot over 50% from 3 range when he plays in the association then you need to take a step back and realize I am still living in this reality. He's only taken like 37 threes this year. Clearly this is a large enough sample size to know his shot has improved but I bet it levels off closer to 40%.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 08:16 PM
It was more about the play style than points or assists the whole game on offense he never got beyond the free throw line. I agree it will take him time and he will get it. I could cite examples from his Dleaguee game that were not good lol. I have to wonder if Gentry was fired for not playing the lottery pick? While he may not be a finished product I dont see an area in his game that can be really improved that will allow him to make a jump to a starting caliber guard. I think he can become a solid backup but he is just to limited to become a good staring PG IMO. Obviously the Suns disagree with me and I hope they are right.

My argument was never that he would be a starting caliber PG.

I thought he could be in the right situation - still do, but that isn't going to be ideal for most teams. A lot of people were saying he didn't have a place in the league, and I said he would be a solid rotational PG.

cdash
02-10-2013, 08:18 PM
Its funny man, going back to RealGM I have probably known you longer than anyone else here. I feel like we used to agree on just about everything on RealGM, then we both came here, and Ty Lawson happened haha. Now we see differently on a lot of things(thats not a bad thing). Even when we disagree though, you have always been one of my favorite posters here.

Which is why I don't mind busting your balls :laugh:

Usually we bicker about your UNC guys--it's fun to be on the other side of the argument for a change.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 08:20 PM
My argument was never that he would be a starting caliber PG.

I thought he could be in the right situation - still do, but that isn't going to be ideal for most teams. A lot of people were saying he didn't have a place in the league, and I said he would be a solid rotational PG.

yet you wanted us to trade up for him but didn't think he was starting caliber :confused:

Not sure I believe that you don't trade up into the lottery for a player you don't think is starting material. He is still gonna hurt his team too much for my liking I still dont get why he came out early he should of stayed 4 years at UNC.

cdash
02-10-2013, 08:23 PM
Regarding Oladipo:

I think he will struggle as a rookie, especially offensively. Those concerns raised by others are not unfounded. It will take him time (like all rookies) to adjust to the size and speed of the pro game. He is not a guy who forces offense or takes ill-advised shots--you aren't in the top 5 of eFG% in college by taking bad shots or being a bad shooter. His shot has improved with confidence in college, and I suspect it will be similar when he gets to the NBA. He is a hard worker and studies game film religiously. Hard work and determination can take you a long way. Exhibit A for this is Roy Hibbert.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 08:26 PM
Which is why I don't mind busting your balls :laugh:

Usually we bicker about your UNC guys--it's fun to be on the other side of the argument for a change.

Haha, was I wrong about anyone from that draft class?

Tyler Hansbrough - Said he would be solid backup.
Ty Lawson - Said he would be a very good starter.
Danny Green - Said he would be a great role player/glue guy.
Wayne Ellington - Said he would be a garbage time guy/flush out of the league.

I guess I was a little off on Hansbrough and Ellington. Thought Hansbrough would be a great backup, which isn't true - though I still like him. Ellington has proven to stick around/make more of an impact than I thought he would though.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 08:28 PM
yet you wanted us to trade up for him but didn't think he was starting caliber :confused:

Not sure I believe that you don't trade up into the lottery for a player you don't think is starting material. He is still gonna hurt his team too much for my liking I still dont get why he came out early he should of stayed 4 years at UNC.

I don't think I was actively saying lets trade for him? I probably said I wouldn't have minded in a few trade scenarios, but I don't think I was pushing for one. Even then, I think Kendall Marshall would be a good backup PG on this team. We need people who can distribute the ball, he can do that better than anyone we have.

cdash
02-10-2013, 08:28 PM
Regarding Burke:

I'm not sure about his height--I have heard others whisper concerns about it but frankly it doesn't really bother me. I think he's got good speed with the ball and decent vision, but no elite NBA skill. His defense is average at best, and I think he needs to add a little strength, but again, not a major concern. He has taken to a lot of isos and a more scoring mentality as the season has progressed. I think he will be a decent backup in the NBA, but his lack of elite court vision, passing, shooting, defense, athleticism etc. concerns me.

cdash
02-10-2013, 08:30 PM
Haha, was I wrong about anyone from that draft class?

Tyler Hansbrough - Said he would be solid backup.
Ty Lawson - Said he would be a very good starter.
Danny Green - Said he would be a great role player/glue guy.
Wayne Ellington - Said he would be a garbage time guy/flush out of the league.

I guess I was a little off on Hansbrough and Ellington. Thought Hansbrough would be a great backup, which isn't true - though I still like him. Ellington has proven to stick around/make more of an impact than I thought he would though.

I was with you on Green, as I recall. I was pretty surprised when he looked terrible his first couple years in Cleveland. Pop saved his career, really.

Obviously Lawson was the big one we disagreed on, and obviously I was wrong there :laugh:

Trader Joe
02-10-2013, 08:32 PM
A lot of people were wrong on Lawson. His speed ended up being much better than I thought it was in college, it's always hard to gauge speed in college becuase it's not often two PGs with NBA level speed match up head to head in the NCAA.

Which is one of my concerns with Burke, his shooting %'s have plummeted whenever he's been up against quick guards who can stay in front of him.

Mr.Hinds
02-10-2013, 08:48 PM
What really makes me think Oladipo could fall down the draft is the depth of the shooting guard position in this draft. There isn't a star 2 guard out there but there are a lot of potential guys.

Muhammad, UCLA.
McLamore, Kansas.
Goodwin, Kentucky.
Smart, OklSt
Paul, Illinois

Now I think Vic is better in some areas than most of those guys, defense particularly. But almost all those guys have shown the ability to score longer than Oladipo has.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 09:02 PM
What really makes me think Oladipo could fall down the draft is the depth of the shooting guard position in this draft. There isn't a star 2 guard out there but there are a lot of potential guys.

Muhammad, UCLA.
McLamore, Kansas.
Goodwin, Kentucky.
Smart, OklSt
Paul, Illinois

Now I think Vic is better in some areas than most of those guys, defense particularly. But almost all those guys have shown the ability to score longer than Oladipo has.

Smart is a pg anyone playing him at the 2 is wasting his talent.

Trey Burke reminds me a lot of Jameer Nelson really good shooter and PnR player.

I would currently put McLemore #1 Victor #2 and Bazz #3. Bazz is a really good scorer but he doesn't have the complete game of Ben and Victor IMO. To be fair to him he has only been in game shape a few games. However his holes are glaring and pretty big in terms of his play. The more I see him the less I like him so left hand dominate and not a good passer at all.

alo the other night when he cried after Larry Drew the 3rd made the game winner wasnt cool. I want win first guys and that was so me first it was sad to see.


How about Larry Drew proving Dr. Awesome wrong dude has become a great college pg for UCLA.

cdash
02-10-2013, 09:04 PM
How about Larry Drew proving Dr. Awesome wrong dude has become a great college pg for UCLA.

You are really stretching the definition of the word "great" aren't you?

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 09:09 PM
You are really stretching the definition of the word "great" aren't you?
lol
Ya little hyperbole He has been decent to good this year especially considering how in flux his team is. I agreed with Dr. Awesome though he wasn't very good for UNC and needed to go. Especially considering how bad his skill set is he has become pretty good for a guy who can't shoot a lick.

Great is more of where he came from he wasnt very good just kind of surprising how improved he is.

MagicRat
02-10-2013, 09:24 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013130203010

Paul George on Victor Oladipo: 'That kid's got game

by: Curt Cavin

It didn’t take a dunker to know what a spectacular effort Indiana University’s Victor Oladipo gave in his near-miss of a jam Saturday night on a ball thrown behind him.

But Paul George, a standout in last year’s NBA’s Slam Dunk contest, said today following an Indiana Pacers' practice at Bankers Life Fieldhouse that Oladipo nearly delivered an all-time keeper.

“It would have been crazy if he would have got that down,” said George, who watched the 81-73 victory over No. 1 Michigan from the third row. “It would have been a top play (on television) for a while.”

George said he marveled at the Assembly Hall atmosphere, easily the loudest environment he’s experienced as a spectator. But while his ears were filled with noise, his eyes were fixed on Oladipo.
“That kid’s got game,” the NBA All-Star said. “I like his game.”

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
How about Larry Drew proving Dr. Awesome wrong dude has become a great college pg for UCLA.

Now it really just seems like your searching for things...not sure what I ever did to you, but whatever.

Regarding Drew, I have no clue what you are talking about. I don't remember ever saying anything about him outside of the fact that Kendall Marshall was a lot better? I have no idea what you are referring to, but whatever. If I did say anything, I don't remember it and not sure why you would.

Please, tell me how I'm wrong some more with fake facts.

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 09:34 PM
Now it really just seems like your searching for things...not sure what I ever did to you, but whatever.

Regarding Drew, I have no clue what you are talking about. I don't remember ever saying anything about him outside of the fact that Kendall Marshall was a lot better? I have no idea what you are referring to, but whatever.

Please, tell me how I'm wrong some more with fake facts.
I got no problem with you like reading your stuff and talking college hoops maybe should of been clearer.

It was a joke everyone though he sucked because he did. I figured you didn't like him I know my Carolina friend hated the guys game. Maybe I should of put it in green but I figured you remembered how bad he was so you would get the joke. Didnt he shoot like 30% I couldn't stand watching him at UNC.



Also regarding Marshall it always seemed like you wanted to trade up for the guy. You would post in threads we need a guy like Marshall. I could dig them up but that takes a lot of time. It's no big deal just a misunderstanding if I knew you only though he was be a solid backup I wouldn't of ripped your take on him so much. I still don't think he will be a good backup but that isn't unrealistic at all if he improves a little. Now becoming a good starting I though was insane and I always though you believed that is what he would become.


EDIT: and how about one of my favorite backup prospects vs one of yours in Reggie Jackson vs Kendall Marshall is on right now. I look forward to watching that matchup all night/

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 09:47 PM
I get that you thought I didn't like him, but you said this:


How about Larry Drew proving Dr. Awesome wrong dude has become a great college pg for UCLA.

When in reality, I've never said anything about the guy. So your just putting words in my mouth in an attempt to "prove" I'm wrong.

In fact, I said this last year:
You can go back to last year with Larry Drew(who by college standards is a decent PG) and still see the difference. It is night and day.

Hardly see me talking trash about him there, but whatever.

Since you seem interested in bashing me though, I'll own up to what I did say:


5 Overrated:
Tyler Zeller - He has a place in the NBA, I just don't think he will be as good as everyone seems to think.
John Henson - I see him as a poor mans Ed Davis. He'll block shots, but until he adds some weight he will get bullied.
Austin Rivers - I just don't see him being great at anything at the next level. At most I think he's a solid backup who can put points on the board.
Jeremy Lamb - I don't think its anything he has done wrong, I just don't see it. I don't know why.
Dion Waiters - I think he will end up being a hollow stats guy. He's going to score, but will his play make his team better? I don't know.

5 Underrated:
Kendall Marshall - Bet no one saw that coming haha. The guy makes EVERYONE on his team better. He makes offensively inept people turn into weapons.
Meyers Leonard - I love the guy. I think he's a project, but will ultimately be a lot better than Tyler Zeller.
Terrence Ross - I can't figure out why this guy isn't a top 7 pick. I love his game.
Moe Harkless - I think over the course of his career he will be a lot better than many of the people picked before him.
Jared Sullinger - This years DeJuan Blair. However, Sullinger is leagues above Blair in talent. It all comes down to health, but I'd take the chance on him.

Jury is still out on some of them - though I don't think anyone has really proven me wrong yet.

Dr. Awesome
02-10-2013, 09:49 PM
I got no problem with you like reading your stuff and talking college hoops maybe should of been clearer.

It was a joke everyone though he sucked because he did. I figured you didn't like him I know my Carolina friend hated the guys game. Maybe I should of put it in green but I figured you remembered how bad he was so you would get the joke. Didnt he shoot like 30% I couldn't stand watching him at UNC.



Also regarding Marshall it always seemed like you wanted to trade up for the guy. You would post in threads we need a guy like Marshall. I could dig them up but that takes a lot of time. It's no big deal just a misunderstanding if I knew you only though he was be a solid backup I wouldn't of ripped your take on him so much. I still don't think he will be a good backup but that isn't unrealistic at all if he improves a little. Now becoming a good starting I though was insane and I always though you believed that is what he would become.


EDIT: and how about one of my favorite backup prospects vs one of yours in Reggie Jackson vs Kendall Marshall is on right now. I look forward to watching that matchup all night/
I understand, I just don't get why you are putting words in my mouth in the process.

As for the matchup, I watched on and off up to this point, but now The Walking Dead is coming on, so I will miss the rest. :-\

pacer4ever
02-10-2013, 10:05 PM
I understand, I just don't get why you are putting words in my mouth in the process.

As for the matchup, I watched on and off up to this point, but now The Walking Dead is coming on, so I will miss the rest. :-\

Kendall played pretty good. Westbrook vs anyone isn't fair so that wasn't his fault when Westbrook came back in. I love how OKC move the ball in the 2nd unit though pretty too watch. The Suns are a mess though I hope they figure it out in the coming weeks it's better for them if they don't though. Bazz would fit in well there Dragic and Marshall would get him the ball where he needs it.


His plus minus is gonna be super good they were down 20 when he came in they closed it to 5. Then OKC went on a 16-2 run to end the half Dragic's plus minus is gonna be terrible tonight.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
02-10-2013, 10:37 PM
To be fair, whenever there is a player from the State of Indiana, every(and by every I mean a lot of before you freak out) Pacers fan from Indiana is infatuated with them.

See Eric Gordon, Mike Conely, Eric Gordon, Gordan Hayword, Greg Oded, Eric Gordon, and pretty much every other player from Indiana in history.


And who could forget the continuing message board obsession with Brick McRoberts?

And, lest we forget, it wasn't that long ago that so many grief stricken message boarders moved from Indiana to Sacramento when Brad Miller left the Pacers.

brownjake43
02-10-2013, 10:38 PM
I am going to get torn apart here, but this does not seem like a good question to me. Trey Burke's game is more for the NBA than Oladipos and it really is not that close. Burke will go top 10. Oladipo will go around 15-20 range. With that being said I would like Oladipo off of our bench.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
02-10-2013, 10:39 PM
Back to the subject.

As it stands now, the Pacers have almost zero chance of drafting either player. So I won't venture a speculation.

cdash
02-10-2013, 10:42 PM
Back to the subject.

As it stands now, the Pacers have almost zero chance of drafting either player. So I won't venture a speculation.

How exactly is that really on subject?

You must have missed my missive way back on post #2: On behalf of the board, I took care of the token, "we won't be in position to draft either one of them" speech. Just fun to discuss.

Justin Tyme
02-11-2013, 08:43 AM
I would say he was drafting for position. How do you think he will work out for us?


I'd say you are correct. Let's just say I feel OJ, as a 2nd round pick, is the better of the 2 picks, and will be more of a contributor for the Pacers than Chumlee.

Eleazar
02-11-2013, 09:16 AM
Why can't we enjoy some harmless speculation without half the people chiming in that we won't be in position for either one?

flampoo
02-11-2013, 09:27 AM
With the 30th pick in the 2013 NBA draft, the Indiana Pacers select...

Victor Oladipo.

CreekShow
02-11-2013, 09:27 AM
Why can't we enjoy some harmless speculation without half the people chiming in that we won't be in position for either one?

We could speculate that the sky might not actually be blue, but some of us are realists.

OlBlu
02-11-2013, 09:32 AM
And who could forget the continuing message board obsession with Brick McRoberts?

And, lest we forget, it wasn't that long ago that so many grief stricken message boarders moved from Indiana to Sacramento when Brad Miller left the Pacers.

Someone just said the other day that we could send Hans to Orlando and finally see who is better, he or McBrick..... Like that wasn't decided long ago. People here thought he would be a starter in LA and probably make an all star team. He is the same three minutes a game nobody he always was except to the fans in Indy. He can make big dunks, that is all they need to see.....:cool: ...

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 12:32 PM
This should put it to rest. Here is an unbiased view on Oladipo against Ohio State Sudnay but really it sums up his season

Good god, was there ever Victor Oladipo. He's known as one of the country's best defenders, but it's almost a crime when the accolades stop there. Because yes, he's a defensive genius, so much so that he should win Big Ten defensive player of the year over Craft, who, let's face it, does get away with a lot of body contact because he's Aaron Craft. But defense alone doesn't begin to tell the Oladipo story. Did you know he has the 24th-highest (http://kenpom.com/player.php?p=10717) offensive rating in the country? Or the sixth-highest effective field goal percentage? Or that he's an excellent offensive rebounder, can get to the line almost at will, and has turned his former weakness, 3-point shooting, into a 52.6 percent strength?
But even the stats don't go far enough. He's become so fluid, so skilled, so smooth, that in conjunction with his athleticism, it almost makes sense that Dick Vitale compared him to Michael Jordan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r2A00ePuwsk). I know, I KNOW, but when he puts the juke on a defender, gets to the lane, and starts to rise for one of his soul-reviving jams, it really ****ing looks like Michael Jordan. Maybe it's because he's so skinny, with the same long flailing limbs and the twitchy quickness. It gives you a reluctant déjà vu, and yes, you want to shy from the comparison because it feels inherently absurd. But it's there, man. It's there.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50408/the-big-ten-road-trip-indiana-levels-ohio-state

Mackey_Rose
02-11-2013, 01:07 PM
This thread (like basically any thread in which OlBlu comments on) is downright awful, the other Oladipo thread was much better.

I like Burke, but that said, it's Oladipo and it isn't even close.

Kid Minneapolis
02-11-2013, 01:28 PM
Yeah, I've been thinking Michael Jordan, too, in his college years. It's absurd to think about, but like the guy says... "it's there". The real question is would Oladipo continue the meteoric rise that Jordan did in the NBA? Probly not... but I still think he'll be pretty good.

Dr. Awesome
02-11-2013, 03:27 PM
C'mon cdash......c'mon.

cdash
02-11-2013, 03:52 PM
C'mon cdash......c'mon.

What did I do this time? :laugh:

dal9
02-11-2013, 04:11 PM
well, if the "unbiased" guy thinks he is Michael Jordan, I'd be real interested to see what a biased analysis look like

Dr. Awesome
02-11-2013, 04:12 PM
What did I do this time? :laugh:

Haha, nothing.

I will say after watching him more, I am very impressed with him though. The Jordan comparisons are down right silly though.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:14 PM
well, if the "unbiased" guy thinks he is Michael Jordan, I'd be real interested to see what a biased analysis look like

He called Indiana a fake team before the Michigan gamr and predicted we would lose to Michigan by double digits...so yeah I would say he is unbiased.


I've been tough on Indiana all season because I think they're soft, and I'll go ahead and admit that this is essentially my last stand. If I'm wrong and Indiana wins, I'll repent and confess the error of my ways. The evidence will have mounted against me, and I'll sag to the ground in defeat. But for now, optimism prevails. I'm not just expecting a Wolverines win; I'm expecting the Michigan perimeter to dominate. And I'm expecting Burke to carve up Yogi Ferrell or Christian Watford, or, God forbid, Jordan Hulls. And I'm expecting Beilein, an excellent game coach, to take Tom Crean to school. Here I am, readers, putting myself on the line without disclaimers or reservations: Michigan rolls by double digits.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/49538/the-hardcourt-shuffle-this-weekends-top-10-college-basketball-games

dal9
02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
He called Indiana a fake team before the Michigan gamr and predicted we would lose to Michigan by double digits...so yeah I would say he is unbiased.



http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/49538/the-hardcourt-shuffle-this-weekends-top-10-college-basketball-games

well, that settles it then. Make him the first pick and give him a number #23.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:21 PM
well, that settles it then. Make him the first pick and give him a number #23.

I'm not saying Victor is Michael Jordan. I'm just saying you can't say that guy is an Indiana fan. He is an unbiased writer and clearly he thinks quite a bit about Oladipo. Burke is fantastic but he has not had a performance that was as deadly efficient as Vic was on Sunday in that sort of setting. He just hasn't.

Honestly, the only bias that exists on this board is the bias that some folks have against IU. I see way more bias on that end than I do from IU fans overhyping our players.

Ace E.Anderson
02-11-2013, 04:21 PM
I haven't read this thread in its entirety, so i'm sure this has been touched on...

There's no way that either of these guys are even close to being on the board by the time the Pacers draft.

However, if we are talking in hypotheticals..I would draft Burke and not look back.

Oladipo has a higher ceiling IMO because of his athleticism and the improvement he's shown in college (very similar to what we saw in D-Wade at Marquette imo) but this league is definitely moving towards a PG dominant league. I LOVE George Hill, but when you have the chance to draft a guy that can be a star at the PG position>>>YOU DO IT!

cdash
02-11-2013, 04:22 PM
well, that settles it then. Make him the first pick and give him a number #23.

Your bitterness makes me so happy. If you read the article, the guy just says Oladipo looks/moves like Jordan. He fully admits that any comparison is ridiculous. But you see what you want to see, I suppose.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:23 PM
I haven't read this thread in its entirety, so i'm sure this has been touched on...

There's no way that either of these guys are even close to being on the board by the time the Pacers draft.

However, if we are talking in hypotheticals..I would draft Burke and not look back.

Oladipo has a higher ceiling IMO because of his athleticism and the improvement he's shown in college (very similar to what we saw in D-Wade at Marquette imo) but this league is definitely moving towards a PG dominant league. I LOVE George Hill, but when you have the chance to draft a guy that can be a star at the PG position>>>YOU DO IT!

Point guard is probably the most overrated position in the league at the moment. How are the Celtics doing since Rondo went out? The answer is fantastic. You can absolutely win big in hte NBA without a star PG, you can't win in the NBA without talent on the wings.

Wage
02-11-2013, 04:23 PM
well, that settles it then. Make him the first pick and give him a number #23.

To be fair, Jordan was very comparable to Jordan, and he didn't go first.

Mackey_Rose
02-11-2013, 04:25 PM
I think a better question is, who should the worst teams in the league pick first, Oladipo or Zeller?

BRushWithDeath
02-11-2013, 04:27 PM
I think a better question is, who should the worst teams in the league pick first, Oladipo or Zeller?

If I were rooting for a team who picked Cody Zeller in the top 8, I'd throw things.

dal9
02-11-2013, 04:27 PM
To be fair, Jordan was very comparable to Jordan, and he didn't go first.

Well, but then the Blazers didn't know Jordan was going to "be Jordan"...but now WE KNOW! An unbiased guy said!!!

Dr. Awesome
02-11-2013, 04:27 PM
Honestly, the only bias that exists on this board is the bias that some folks have against IU. I see way more bias on that end than I do from IU fans overhyping our players.

:hmm:

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:29 PM
If I were rooting for a team who picked Cody Zeller in the top 8, I'd throw things.

I agree Oladipo is clearly the better pro prospect. Cody is a good starter I think in the right situation but never a star and he will probably always have some deficiencies.

Out of Zeller, Oladipo and Burke though the most likely to drop IMO is Burke. He is not going to measure out that well at the combine IMO and if there is a tread at the 1 in the NBA, it's bigger, stronger, more athletic, and Burke is not really any of those things and the only guy who is getting by really well in the NBA without being bigger and stronger is Chris Paul and Burke is not Chris Paul.

BRushWithDeath
02-11-2013, 04:29 PM
The very idea that the main reason people like a player like Eric Gordon, Mike Conley, Victor Oladipo, etc. is because of their Indiana ties is pretty insulting.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:30 PM
:hmm:

Look we can't even talk about good IU players on this board without someone saying the only reason they are being talked about is because they go to IU and in Oladipo's case it is flat out ridiculous. It's not like topics are being started that say "Remy Abell top 5 pick or steal at number 15?"

EDIT: Also what Brush just said.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:32 PM
Well, but then the Blazers didn't know Jordan was going to "be Jordan"...but now WE KNOW! An unbiased guy said!!!

Look the guy is unbiased I don't know what to tell you. You all act like only IU fans like Oladipo so I don't know what else you want.

I should have known Mackey was always an IU fan in disguise.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:37 PM
Also, for anyone that wants to have some fun compare Oladipo's stats in the B1G this year to Burke's stats in the B1G this year. Burke has shot under 40% 6 times in conference play, over 40% 5 times. Oladipo has shot over 60% 5 times, between 50 and 60% 3 times, and between 40 and 50% 2 times. He has not shot less than 42% in conference play

dal9
02-11-2013, 04:39 PM
Also, for anyone that wants to have some fun compare Oladipo's stats in the B1G this year to Burke's stats in the B1G this year.

wasn't as much fun as I expected. I want a refund.

Mackey_Rose
02-11-2013, 04:44 PM
Look the guy is unbiased I don't know what to tell you. You all act like only IU fans like Oladipo so I don't know what else you want.

I should have known Mackey was always an IU fan in disguise.

It's an elaborate ruse.

Dr. Awesome
02-11-2013, 04:48 PM
Look we can't even talk about good IU players on this board without someone saying the only reason they are being talked about is because they go to IU and in Oladipo's case it is flat out ridiculous. It's not like topics are being started that say "Remy Abell top 5 pick or steal at number 15?"

EDIT: Also what Brush just said.

So, your trying to tell me the ONLY biased opinions on this board regarding IU players are from people that dislike IU?

Pacer Fan
02-11-2013, 04:56 PM
I voted for Victor. I know some will disagree but Burke reminds me so much of our very own DJ Augustin when he was in Texas, excpet DJ was better, I think.

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:58 PM
wasn't as much fun as I expected. I want a refund.

Player A in Big Ten play
15.3 PPG 6 RPG 2.7 APG 2.3 TOPG 2.1 SPG .65 BPG Shooting 60.8% from the field

Player B in Big Ten play
18.6 PPG 3.4 RPG 6.7 APG 1.8 TOPG 1.6 SPG .5 BPG Shooting 42.6% from the field

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 04:59 PM
So, your trying to tell me the ONLY biased opinions on this board regarding IU players are from people that dislike IU?

Nah, there are surely IU fans who let it influence their feelings, I'm just saying there are just as many if not more people on here who rag on IU players just because they went to IU.

cdash
02-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Nah, there are surely IU fans who let it influence their feelings, I'm just saying there are just as many if not more people on here who rag on IU players just because they went to IU.

Yes, we are all still recovering from the "Miller-over-Alford" debacle that set the Pacers back decades.

Coopdog23
02-11-2013, 05:24 PM
I voted for Victor. I know some will disagree but Burke reminds me so much of our very own DJ Augustin when he was in Texas, excpet DJ was better, I think.

Burke is 10x better than Augustin was at Texas

Trader Joe
02-11-2013, 05:27 PM
Burke is 10x better than Augustin was at Texas

If this were true Burke would be the clear number 1 overall right now on everyone's big board because there were a ton of "experts" who loved Augustin coming out of Texas. Burke is better than Augustin, I like the Jameer Nelson comparison by P4E I think that is pretty accurate.

Coopdog23
02-11-2013, 05:30 PM
If this were true Burke would be the clear number 1 overall right now on everyone's big board because there were a ton of "experts" who loved Augustin coming out of Texas. Burke is better than Augustin, I like the Jameer Nelson comparison by P4E I think that is pretty accurate.

Did you watch the Michigan-IU game?

BRushWithDeath
02-11-2013, 05:31 PM
Did you watch the Michigan-IU game?

The one in which Oladipo was far and away the best player on the floor?

Coopdog23
02-11-2013, 05:36 PM
The one in which Oladipo was far and away the best player on the floor?

You mean the game where Trey Burke dominated the first half?

Ace E.Anderson
02-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Point guard is probably the most overrated position in the league at the moment. How are the Celtics doing since Rondo went out? The answer is fantastic. You can absolutely win big in hte NBA without a star PG, you can't win in the NBA without talent on the wings.

IMO we're pretty stacked at the Wing position right now, and pretty devoid of dynamic PG play

Mr.Hinds
02-11-2013, 05:40 PM
Yeah in the IU-MU game Yogi had a pretty good night on him defensively, early foul trouble notwithstanding.

That being said, I could see Burke coming in and posting Lillard numbers, if he utilizes the PnR as effectively. He's got the jump shot and speed. He will just need a good PF to match up with.

And I've got to say, Burke might have the nastiest step back J I've seen in a while. Against IU he did it three or four times all over the court. That will help him shoot over bigger guards with ease at the next level.

BRushWithDeath
02-11-2013, 05:47 PM
You mean the game where Trey Burke dominated the first half?

He was 5/10 for 14 points to go with 3 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 turnovers. His team was losing 36-32. Dominant all right.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this.

Ace E.Anderson
02-11-2013, 05:50 PM
I agree Oladipo is clearly the better pro prospect. Cody is a good starter I think in the right situation but never a star and he will probably always have some deficiencies.

Out of Zeller, Oladipo and Burke though the most likely to drop IMO is Burke. He is not going to measure out that well at the combine IMO and if there is a tread at the 1 in the NBA, it's bigger, stronger, more athletic, and Burke is not really any of those things and the only guy who is getting by really well in the NBA without being bigger and stronger is Chris Paul and Burke is not Chris Paul.

Though some of these guys have up an 1/2 an inch to an inch 1/2 height advantage; Damian Lillard, Steph Curry, Tony Parker, Ty Lawson, Mike Conley, Rondo, aren't in that Westbrook/Irving type of mold (as I assume you're meaning) Most of those guys are between 6'1-6'3 range, and aren't overly freakish athletic

Pacer Fan
02-11-2013, 05:51 PM
Burke is 10x better than Augustin was at Texas

I disagree, DJ was a better ball handler and had a much better shot. DJ has one of the best shooting motions in the game. If there is a flaw, it's alittle to much back spin and that really isn't a complaint. Also he was taken 9th in one of the best NBA drafts. So the scouts seen what I seen in him.

Ace E.Anderson
02-11-2013, 05:54 PM
I disagree, DJ was a better ball handler and had a much better shot. DJ has one of the best shooting motions in the game. If there is a flaw, it's alittle to much back spin and that really isn't a complaint. Also he was taken 9th in one of the best NBA drafts. So the scouts seen what I seen in him.

And they were obviously wrong lol.

Augustin's problems are his lack of speed/quickness, and his lack of athleticism to finish in the lane; which Burke has an abundance of.

When you're that size, you've not only gotta be quick but you need to have the ability to finish in the lane against bigger/longer opponents also.

Pacer Fan
02-11-2013, 06:10 PM
And they were obviously wrong lol.

Augustin's problems are his lack of speed/quickness, and his lack of athleticism to finish in the lane; which Burke has an abundance of.

When you're that size, you've not only gotta be quick but you need to have the ability to finish in the lane against bigger/longer opponents also.

True, but any 6'0" and under is going to struggle in the NBA to get to the rim. DJ had a better chance at the NBA level cause of his ball skills, shooting and assists, pass first mentality. DJ is exceptionally better then Burke in these areas. But it is just my opinion, no big deal.

SouthernIndianaFan
02-11-2013, 06:11 PM
Victor Olidipo has moved up to number 9 on draftexpress. Some other sites have him moving into the lottery also. Hmmm. Comments?

Dr. Awesome
02-11-2013, 06:22 PM
I hated Augustin coming out of college. Pretty much right where I thought he would be in terms of his career.

pacergod2
02-11-2013, 09:37 PM
F*** IU. Trey Burke is the better player. He also suits our needs more.

Oladipo is a guy I would definitely consider drafting if I'm an NBA GM, however.

pacergod2
02-11-2013, 09:42 PM
Trey Burke is more CPIII than Augustin. Burke is the best ball handler in the country. He's a mature difference maker who will grow as a player. He's a great passer. Great shooter. Oladipo is a fantastic defender and a good athlete. I think they will both translate to the NBA well, but I see Oladipo as a career rotational reserve, while I see Burke being a solid starting PG in the better half of starting PGs in the league.

Trader Joe
02-12-2013, 09:49 AM
You mean the game where Trey Burke dominated the first half?

Dominated?

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 11:30 AM
He was 5/10 for 14 points to go with 3 rebounds, 2 assists, and 2 turnovers. His team was losing 36-32. Dominant all right.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this.

More than Oladipo in that half. You know he's better, you just say Oladipo is better because he's from IU

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 11:31 AM
Dominated?

Yep. D-O-M-I-N-A-T-E-D, dominated, to rule over, from the dictionary. :)

BRushWithDeath
02-12-2013, 11:32 AM
More than Oladipo in that half. You know he's better, you just say Oladipo is better because he's from IU
Guilty.

Trader Joe
02-12-2013, 11:40 AM
BWD and Mackey Rose the secret IU illuminati of Pacers Digest.

Slick Pinkham
02-12-2013, 11:47 AM
Burke did have one of the most dominant 9-for-24 shooting games I have ever seen, in that game vs. IU. /green

I get it, he's a good player. Just don't try to oversell it, OK?

Either would be a good addition, really, so I don't know why we need to denigrate either guy.

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 03:38 PM
Burke did have one of the most dominant 9-for-24 shooting games I have ever seen, in that game vs. IU. /green

I get it, he's a good player. Just don't try to oversell it, OK?

Either would be a good addition, really, so I don't know why we need to denigrate either guy.

You guys are overselling Oladipo way too much. I've seen mutliple IU games this year and yes he can score and he can jump, and play [B]DECENT[B] defense. The Pacers need a point guard because I highly doubt Hansbrough and/or Augustin will be around next year

cdash
02-12-2013, 04:16 PM
You guys are overselling Oladipo way too much. I've seen mutliple IU games this year and yes he can score and he can jump, and play [B]DECENT[B] defense. The Pacers need a point guard because I highly doubt Hansbrough and/or Augustin will be around next year

It's not just us "overselling" him. It's the national media, it's DraftExpress, it's ESPN, it's...well, everyone that doesn't hate him just because he goes to IU.

Dr. Awesome
02-12-2013, 04:38 PM
It's not just us "overselling" him. It's the national media, it's DraftExpress, it's ESPN, it's...well, everyone that doesn't hate him just because he goes to IU.

No one hates him just because he goes to IU. I for one have come around on him after watching him more - however, people who have gone to college or HS in Indiana get blown up by people on this board. See the many Gordan Hayward > Paul George threads, or the 1,000 Eric Gordon threads. Warranted or not, people who have no connection to Indiana get annoyed by the countless threads to players from Indiana. I have nothing against IU, but I nearly hate Eric Gordon solely because of the homerism on this board for him. Has nothing to do with him as a player, it simply gets old.

cdash
02-12-2013, 04:44 PM
No one hates him just because he goes to IU. I for one have come around on him after watching him more - however, people who have gone to college or HS in Indiana get blown up by people on this board. See the many Gordan Hayward > Paul George threads, or the 1,000 Eric Gordon threads. Warranted or not, people who have no connection to Indiana get annoyed by the countless threads to players from Indiana. I have nothing against IU, but I nearly hate Eric Gordon solely because of the homerism on this board for him. Has nothing to do with him as a player, it simply gets old.

Clearly you are not familiar with Coopdog's work.

I didn't bother reading the rest, because, no offense, we have seen it a thousand times over the years on here and I'm tired of reading it.

Heisenberg
02-12-2013, 04:45 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

cdash
02-12-2013, 04:50 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

Yeah, I remember the Hayward narrative was basically just one guy's crusade, with maybe a few more fringe supporters.

Wage
02-12-2013, 05:10 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

The overall view on Hayward was to stay the hell away. Most on the forum were actively against any draft scenario where he would be taken.

As far as Oden and Conley are concerned, there was never much buzz about them during the draft as there was really no way we were going to get them. I think most of the EJ stuff has come from the fact he might be the only guy in the history of the NBA with superstar potential that has come forth and directly stated he would love to play for the Pacers.

Trader Joe
02-12-2013, 05:11 PM
Not to mention there was a very real fact that Gordon could have dropped to the P's in that draft.

Mackey_Rose
02-12-2013, 05:14 PM
No one hates him just because he goes to IU. I for one have come around on him after watching him more - however, people who have gone to college or HS in Indiana get blown up by people on this board. See the many Gordan Hayward > Paul George threads, or the 1,000 Eric Gordon threads. Warranted or not, people who have no connection to Indiana get annoyed by the countless threads to players from Indiana. I have nothing against IU, but I nearly hate Eric Gordon solely because of the homerism on this board for him. Has nothing to do with him as a player, it simply gets old.

You act like that is in some way unique to this board, IU, and Indiana in general. Go to a Bulls message board and I'm sure they do the same thing with Illni players. Go to a Bobcats board and I'm sure its the same way with Duke/UNC.

It seems, you know, entirely natural. You're fighting a losing battle.

BRushWithDeath
02-12-2013, 05:20 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

I liked Gordon Hayward in that draft. Certainly more than Paul George. Because I, as I assume 95% of people on this board, had never even heard of Paul George before the draft process and had never once seen him play.

And Hayward has turned out to be a very good player. He's definitely underrated here though obviously not at George's level.

cdash
02-12-2013, 05:22 PM
I liked Hayward in that draft. Certainly more than Paul George. Because I, as I assume 95% of people on this board, had never even heard of Paul George before the draft process and had never once seen him play.

I'm an equal opportunity hater--I didn't like either one of them. I was a huge proponent of trading the pick.

Ace E.Anderson
02-12-2013, 05:22 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

Thank god for the Utah Jazz and their stupidity.

But I agree, Hayward is already way better than I ever thought he could be.

BRushWithDeath
02-12-2013, 05:24 PM
Thank god for the Utah Jazz and their stupidity.
But I agree, Hayward is already way better than I ever thought he could be.

This sort of stuff, which is said all of the time by many posters, is completely asinine. The Utah Jazz are not stupid for taking Gordon Hayward. They got a very good player. The fact that a player taken later turned out better does not make them stupid.

TinManJoshua
02-12-2013, 05:27 PM
The mood here is pretty thin. As a complete outsider(MAC fan!) who likes the college game, I'll weigh in.

Oladipo, to me, is the better NBA prospect. "Decent" defense? Really? He could be the best on-ball defender in the country right now. He's brought his shooting up, has the ability to get into the lane, and rebounds well for his size. His athleticism translates, too.

That's not to take anything away from Burke, he's a great(volume) scorer. His defense isn't as good or bad as people want to make it out to be, imho. In any case, I think there's a more realistic chance he's still on the board vs. Oladipo when the Pacers draft. But that's a slight chance as well, because I don't think either is available.

TinManJoshua
02-12-2013, 05:29 PM
I liked Gordon Hayward in that draft. Certainly more than Paul George. Because I, as I assume 95% of people on this board, had never even heard of Paul George before the draft process and had never once seen him play.

I had never heard of Paul George, and I didn't know how to feel about the pick at the time. Thank you patient observation.

Trader Joe
02-12-2013, 05:32 PM
Who's Paul George?

BRushWithDeath
02-12-2013, 05:36 PM
I'm an equal opportunity hater--I didn't like either one of them. I was a huge proponent of trading the pick.

I could easily be misremembering, but I think I was in the same boat. I think I was pretty much of the opinion that after John Wall, Evan Turner, Derrick Favors, and DeMarcus Cousins there wasn't anybody worth a top 10 pick.

Mackey_Rose
02-12-2013, 05:38 PM
Thank god for the Utah Jazz and their stupidity.

But I agree, Hayward is already way better than I ever thought he could be.

I can't even imagine being a fan of a team stupid enough to pick a really, really good young player 1 spot ahead of a better player. Thank you Jeebus!!

Pacer Fan
02-12-2013, 05:41 PM
I wanted Hayward and still do, I'd love a trade of some sorts to get him. George Hill, Gordon Hayward and Paul George would be awesome. I'd buy season tickets for that line up and I would have to give all the tickets away.

Slick Pinkham
02-12-2013, 06:09 PM
I am a Pacers fan and an IU fan, but there's no way I wanted the Pacers to have anything to do with some past IU players drafted, like Haston, Jeffries, Bracy Wright, DJ White, etc.

My homerism really only goes so far. As an old-timer, I certainly wasn't calling for picking Alford over Reggie.

Some people actually can be objective about the NBA prospects of college players they also follow.

Lance George
02-12-2013, 07:00 PM
Here's Paul George's Draft Express mock history, for those curious:

http://i47.tinypic.com/28aswzm.jpg (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Paul-George-5688/mock-draft-history/)

So, he first jumped on their radar about a month-and-a-half into his sophomore -- and final -- season at Fresno State, and he stayed there up until the final three weeks leading up to the draft, where his combine performance catapulted him into the later portion of the lottery.

pacer4ever
02-12-2013, 07:04 PM
I may have to go back and check Paul George's draft stock in the year leading up to the draft. I'm almost certain he still being listed as a second-round pick midway through his final season at Fresno State.

He was just how Lillard was viewed as a early 2nd rd guy last year. Most draft sites are afraid to jump guys so much. It isn't until DraftExpress hears from NBA people telling them where they would draft a guy(which is normally the end of the year after march).

This year for example will have some really heavy risers IMO still a lot of ball left to play. But February into March is when stuff starts to really shake up.

pacergod2
02-12-2013, 07:49 PM
The trend with a lot of these kids that seemingly come out of nowhere is that most were late bloomers. These kids might not have gotten minuts until late in high school and aren't on scouts' radar in 8th grade. George and Lillard are both guys that came along a bit late and ended up going somewhere other than Kansas, UNC, Duke, Cuse, etc. I think these are typically kids that adapt well as they get older. Its the kids with middle school beards that are broken down two years into the league.

Really?
02-12-2013, 07:50 PM
What, no Terone Johnson love?

only a junior, lol

cdash
02-12-2013, 07:51 PM
Its the kids with middle school beards that are broken down two years into the league.

I don't know why, but I lost it when I read this. Well played :laugh:

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 10:26 PM
Wasn't the Hayward>George stuff pretty much just graphic-er?

I feel like I remember the majority not being all that interested in Hayward, I think he's become a better NBA player than most of us thought he would.

George or Hayward?

Coopdog23
02-12-2013, 10:27 PM
Clearly you are not familiar with Coopdog's work.

I didn't bother reading the rest, because, no offense, we have seen it a thousand times over the years on here and I'm tired of reading it.

you just don't understand that not every player that plays at IU is an NBA quality player. Zeller will not be a good NBA player and neither will Oladipo

Mr.Hinds
02-12-2013, 10:44 PM
you just don't understand that not every player that plays at IU is an NBA quality player. Zeller will not be a good NBA player and neither will Oladipo

Well, I might be going out on a limb here, but that sounds like a whole lot of your own opinion. Just blew me away with your analysis though.

I agree to some extent however. Zeller will be a solid rotation player in the nba. Probably never sniff an allstar bid. His ideal spot would be to move to a more power forward slot. He's not big enough to bang down low with NBA centers, and I don't think he can but much more mass on. He's got a pretty outside shot which will be more suited towards the association. I'm thinking a poormans Pau Gasol. He can pass, shoot and has a good variety of post moves. But he runs much better than Pau.

Oladipo... I don't know what to make of him. I think he's big enough to be a two guard in the NBA, especially with a lot of coaches playing small ball. His defense should translate alright once he gets accustomed to the speed. He's got a motor and the mentality, which are the toughest things to find in a prospect I think. He can finish at the rim which is always nice, so he'll be a good fast break option. His shot is still questionable. He just doesn't have the body of work to have me completely convinced. However, he seems to have good depiction making, if nothing else. You don't accidentally shoot 65% from the field as a guard. That is just remarkable. The biggest worry is his handles. That will need serious work if he expects to be more than a cutter, finisher and spot up shooter at the next level.

OlBlu
02-12-2013, 10:53 PM
you just don't understand that not every player that plays at IU is an NBA quality player. Zeller will not be a good NBA player and neither will Oladipo

I agree with you about Zeller, he is going to be someone's wasted draft pick. I am open minded about Oladipo but you are right, he is much more likely to be a bust than a star but so is just about every players drafted into the NBA.....:cool: ...

Ace E.Anderson
02-13-2013, 12:08 AM
I can't even imagine being a fan of a team stupid enough to pick a really, really good young player 1 spot ahead of a better player. Thank you Jeebus!!

Yea because 13 PPG on 42% shooting for a 6th man on a middling team SCREAMS 10th pick in the draft.

Yes he's a young decent prospect, but imo (and plenty others) hes already better than i ever thought he could be; so for you to be a smart *** bc I'm glad they stupidly (my opinion) chose him in the draft is unnecessary

Dr. Awesome
02-13-2013, 12:26 AM
You act like that is in some way unique to this board, IU, and Indiana in general. Go to a Bulls message board and I'm sure they do the same thing with Illni players. Go to a Bobcats board and I'm sure its the same way with Duke/UNC.

It seems, you know, entirely natural. You're fighting a losing battle.

No, I understand that. I know it is that way.

My only point was, just because we get tired of hearing it, doesn't mean that we hate IU. Thats silly.

cdash
02-13-2013, 12:38 AM
you just don't understand that not every player that plays at IU is an NBA quality player. Zeller will not be a good NBA player and neither will Oladipo

In my posting history on this board, I think I have championed two, maybe three IU players for their NBA impact: Eric Gordon and Oladipo, with me going back and forth on Zeller. I call it like I see it.

My current stance on Zeller is as follows: I wouldn't spend a top 10 pick on him. He seems like he will be a nice bench player, but I don't think he will be a star in the NBA. Maybe if he puts some more weight on his frame and really develops a mean streak, but I sort of doubt that will be the case. To me, is he low risk, low reward. You know what you are going to get from him--most likely a rotational big who could start on a decent team if he is the third or fourth scoring option at best. He will play winning basketball, he will hustle, and he will be a great addition to the locker room. He probably won't be representing your team in any all-star games though.

Pacer Fan
02-13-2013, 01:02 AM
Burke got pwned by Appling. Yea, Burke was so quick and so athletic he drove the lane and got nowhere but eating the rock as Appling stuck it to him. Appling out played, out witted Burke.

pacer4ever
02-13-2013, 01:30 AM
the worst part about Burke tonight was Michigan trying to hide his defense in that ugly zone.He really needs to stop settling for bad shots he is to good to shoot half the shots he has settled for latley.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 09:31 AM
I agree with you about Zeller, he is going to be someone's wasted draft pick. I am open minded about Oladipo but you are right, he is much more likely to be a bust than a star but so is just about every players drafted into the NBA.....:cool: ...

These IU fans think they're going to be the first two picks just because they go to IU

TinManJoshua
02-13-2013, 09:47 AM
These IU fans think they're going to be the first two picks just because they go to IU

I see a lot of "I wouldn't waste an early first round pick on Zeller" from the IU fans. Heck, if Tyler Zeller gets selected in the first round Cody will be too. Cody's better than Tyler Z.

If you think that the IU fans on this board are championing Victor as pick 1 then I don't think you can read very well.

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 09:52 AM
These IU fans think they're going to be the first two picks just because they go to IU

No one has said that. Shouldn't you be predicting a double digit Purdue victory over IU right now anyway like you were before the meeting in West Laffy?

Mackey_Rose
02-13-2013, 10:42 AM
Yea because 13 PPG on 42% shooting for a 6th man on a middling team SCREAMS 10th pick in the draft.

Yes he's a young decent prospect, but imo (and plenty others) hes already better than i ever thought he could be; so for you to be a smart *** bc I'm glad they stupidly (my opinion) chose him in the draft is unnecessary

Hayward was the 9th pick. George was the 10th pick. Your opinion is wrong. It was not stupid of them to pick him.

Look at the recent history of the players picked either 9th or 10th in the NBA Draft. Haywards contribution's (which go far beyond his PPG average) are much closer to being at the top of the list, than they are to the bottom of the list. By any objective measure, he was a good 9th overall draft pick. Paul George may have been an absolute steal with the 10th overall pick, but that doesn't mean that every pick in front of him was stupid. That kind of logic that you are using, is what is really stupid.

Since 2000, the 9th overall picks have been: Joel Pryzbilla, Rodney White, Amare Stoudamire, Mike Sweetney, Andre Iguodala, Ike Diogu, Patrick O'Bryant, Joakim Noah, DJ Augustin, Demar Derozan, Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker, and Andre Drummond.

There are a couple of good players on that list. Pryzbilla had a decent career. Stoudamire was a very good player before all the injuries. Iguodala and Noah are very good players. Derozan is ok. Walker has shown some things this year, and Drummond has a chance to be fantastic. So counting Hayward, 7 of the last 13 players picked with the 9th pick have shown to be worthy of, or have at least shown enough promise to warrant their draft pick. That's actually unusual when you compare it similar draft slots. Look at the recent 8th overall picks for instance, or the 10th overall picks. Getting a Gordon Hayward with the 9th pick, is something that should be celebrated as a draft success. Picking in the late lottery is mostly a 50/50 proposition. If you want to argue that Hayward belongs with the White, Sweetney, Diogu, O'Bryant, Augustin crowd, you can, but you'd be wrong again.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/8th-overall/80509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/9th-overall/90509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/10th-overall/100509/

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 11:26 AM
No one has said that. Shouldn't you be predicting a double digit Purdue victory over IU right now anyway like you were before the meeting in West Laffy?

Shouldn't you be devising a defense that can defend a layup like the Illinois game?

Ace E.Anderson
02-13-2013, 11:26 AM
Hayward was the 9th pick. George was the 10th pick. Your opinion is wrong. It was not stupid of them to pick him.

Look at the recent history of the players picked either 9th or 10th in the NBA Draft. Haywards contribution's (which go far beyond his PPG average) are much closer to being at the top of the list, than they are to the bottom of the list. By any objective measure, he was a good 9th overall draft pick. Paul George may have been an absolute steal with the 10th overall pick, but that doesn't mean that every pick in front of him was stupid. That kind of logic that you are using, is what is really stupid.

Since 2000, the 9th overall picks have been: Joel Pryzbilla, Rodney White, Amare Stoudamire, Mike Sweetney, Andre Iguodala, Ike Diogu, Patrick O'Bryant, Joakim Noah, DJ Augustin, Demar Derozan, Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker, and Andre Drummond.

There are a couple of good players on that list. Pryzbilla had a decent career. Stoudamire was a very good player before all the injuries. Iguodala and Noah are very good players. Derozan is ok. Walker has shown some things this year, and Drummond has a chance to be fantastic. So counting Hayward, 7 of the last 13 players picked with the 9th pick have shown to be worthy of, or have at least shown enough promise to warrant their draft pick. That's actually unusual when you compare it similar draft slots. Look at the recent 8th overall picks for instance, or the 10th overall picks. Getting a Gordon Hayward with the 9th pick, is something that should be celebrated as a draft success. Picking in the late lottery is mostly a 50/50 proposition. If you want to argue that Hayward belongs with the White, Sweetney, Diogu, O'Bryant, Augustin crowd, you can, but you'd be wrong again.

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/8th-overall/80509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/9th-overall/90509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/10th-overall/100509/

1. Didn't know an opinion could be wrong.
2. I didn't say he was a scrub in the light of White, Sweeney, Diogu, O'Bryant, or Augustin I just said he wasn't as good as the player picked after him.
3. All in all, you're reading into the "thank goodness that Utah was dumb enough to choose Hayward" thing. Maybe it'd make you happy had I said "thank goodness Minnesota was dumb enough to choose Wesley Johnson" or "thank goodness the clippers were dumb enough to choose Al-Farooq Aminu"--but I chose to say what I said, and I stand by what I said. If you disagree, then you can disagree.

So what do we have here? You saying my opinion is stupid because it doesn't match your opinion that he was a good 9th overall pick. Yes I have an opinion that teams were stupid for passing on Paul, just like I have an opinion that teams were stupid for passing on Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd and others that fell in the draft.

Obviously GM's cant tell the future, and the draft is a crapshoot. But it hardly makes my opinion stupid, it just makes you an *** for trying to make it into a big enough deal to argue about lol. This board is probably 80% opinion and all the analysis and stats in the world don't necessarily make a person's opinion "wrong".

Moving on now..thanks anyways though.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 11:26 AM
I see a lot of "I wouldn't waste an early first round pick on Zeller" from the IU fans. Heck, if Tyler Zeller gets selected in the first round Cody will be too. Cody's better than Tyler Z.

If you think that the IU fans on this board are championing Victor as pick 1 then I don't think you can read very well.

You need to read the other pages

Slick Pinkham
02-13-2013, 11:29 AM
Zeller will not be a good NBA player and neither will Oladipo

I would certainly like a wager on that thought. Of course 5 years from now you would no doubt weasel about what you meant by being "a good NBA player" and say something like "See, he has not made any all-star teams after being picked 13th!" while ignoring the fact that nobody says either of these two players being discussed is likely ever going to be an NBA all-star. Most GOOD drafts have about 3-5 players with all-star potential, and few envision this as a good draft year.

To me a pick in the 11-20 range is a very good one if he becomes a rotation player and earns a second NBA contract with teh rteam that drafted him. A pick in the 5-10 range comes with some more expectations, but if he becomes a starter and earns a second NBA contract with the team that drafted him, I'd think that it means he was a good pick too.

I'd put Zeller in the 5-10 range and Oladipo in the 11-20 range. Based on what NBA draftniks are saying, such evaluations are not tainted in the least by any IU homerism.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 11:31 AM
I would certainly like a wager on that thought. Of course 5 years from now you would no doubt weasel about what you meant by being "a good NBA player" and say something like "See, he has not made any all-star teams after being picked 13th!" while ignoring the fact that nobody says either of these two players being discussed is likely ever going to be an NBA all-star. Most GOOD drafts have about 3-5 players with all-star potential, and few envision this as a good draft year.

To me a pick in the 11-20 range is a very good one if he becomes a rotation player and earns a second NBA contract with teh rteam that drafted him. A pick in the 5-10 range comes with some more expectations, but if he becomes a starter and earns a second NBA contract with the team that drafted him, I'd think that it means he was a good pick too.

I'd put Zeller in the 5-10 range and Victor in the 11-20 range. Based on what NBA draftniks are saying, such evaluations are not tainted in the least by any IU homerism.

They both do not have All star potential

Slick Pinkham
02-13-2013, 11:54 AM
They both do not have All star potential

That's an entirely different statement than saying, as you did, that neither will be a good NBA player.

I don't see ANYBODY AT ALL saying that they will be all-stars. Thus you seem to be involved in a heated argument with precisely nobody, and yet you cannot even come to grips with that thought!

The Pacers will picking in the 20s, and you argue that not picking one of the 2-3 players with all-star potential would mean it would be a wasted pick. Does that not strike you as insanely illogical?

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 12:06 PM
Shouldn't you be devising a defense that can defend a layup like the Illinois game?

Just out of curiosity...how old are you?

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 12:08 PM
Oladipo will be picked before Zeller IMO.

Though Zeller may have someone reach on him now with Noel's injury appearing pretty serious. Though I would not do that. (Coopdog23 will interpret this post like this "Zeller will be picked number 1, Oladipo will be picked number 2. They will both revolutionize and define their positions, nay, the game of basketball itself for the next 15 years on their way to 15 straight NBA Finals appearances against each other that will be so epic, they will just rename the NBA the Zelladipo Basketball Association")

TinManJoshua
02-13-2013, 12:09 PM
You need to read the other pages

I did. :confused:

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 12:23 PM
I did. :confused:
But did you read them with your coopdog23 decoder ring?

BPump33
02-13-2013, 01:44 PM
These IU fans think they're going to be the first two picks just because they go to IU

Dude, what the hell? No one said this.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:19 PM
Dude, what the hell? No one said this.

yes they do

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:19 PM
But did you read them with your coopdog23 decoder ring?

its okay zeller will blow in the nba along with oladipo. you dont have to cry about it

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:20 PM
Just out of curiosity...how old are you?

doesnt matter because my basketball knowledge is years in advance compared to yours

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:21 PM
That's an entirely different statement than saying, as you did, that neither will be a good NBA player.

I don't see ANYBODY AT ALL saying that they will be all-stars. Thus you seem to be involved in a heated argument with precisely nobody, and yet you cannot even come to grips with that thought!

The Pacers will picking in the 20s, and you argue that not picking one of the 2-3 players with all-star potential would mean it would be a wasted pick. Does that not strike you as insanely illogical?

It's pretty much the same thing

Mr.Hinds
02-13-2013, 03:23 PM
At this point you're just trolling. Grow up.

cdash
02-13-2013, 03:24 PM
OlBlu better jump back in here--Coopdog is trolling this thread harder than he ever did.

Dr. Awesome
02-13-2013, 03:26 PM
doesnt matter because my basketball knowledge is years in advance compared to yours

I won't say it.

However, I am curious to hear your scouting report involving players that don't go to IU.

Heisenberg
02-13-2013, 03:35 PM
doesnt matter because my basketball knowledge is years in advance compared to yours

so 13

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 03:36 PM
doesnt matter because my basketball knowledge is years in advance compared to yours

Ok thanks for the answer.

Make sure you have fun in high school.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:37 PM
At this point you're just trolling. Grow up.

why don't you while you're at it

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:37 PM
Ok thanks for the answer.

Make sure you have fun in high school.

thanks working on that diploma

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:37 PM
so 13

12 for you?

iogyhufi
02-13-2013, 03:37 PM
:inbeforethelock:

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 03:54 PM
It's too bad this thread is being destroyed because someone has decided that any topic that even involves IU must be relentlessly ruined. Lots of good insight on both Oladipo and Burke in here.

But won't matter because Oladipo is just going to just skip the draft and start his own league that will beat out the NBA by next spring.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 03:58 PM
It's too bad this thread is being destroyed because someone has decided that any topic that even involves IU must be relentlessly ruined. Lots of good insight on both Oladipo and Burke in here.

But won't matter because Oladipo is just going to just skip the draft and start his own league that will beat out the NBA by next spring.

Kind of the whole point I started this thread. You ignorant IU fans need to understand that Oladipo is not as good as you all proclaim him to be

Heisenberg
02-13-2013, 03:59 PM
dude, go back to GBI

Sandman21
02-13-2013, 04:00 PM
I think someone is need of a timeout.

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 04:03 PM
Kind of the whole point I started this thread. You ignorant IU fans need to understand that Oladipo is not as good as you all proclaim him to be

Well if that was your intent for starting the thread I would say the poll has caused your intent to fail miserably. If anything if Oladipo gets a high school boiler fan this riled up, now I am wondering just how good he actually may be...

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 04:03 PM
I think someone is need of a timeout.

can i not voice my opinion? this is a forum

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 04:04 PM
can i not voice my opinion? this is a forum

Your opinion is that every IU fan is saying Zeller and Oladipo with be the 1 and 2 picks yet no one has said anything remotely close to this. In fact no one has even really said that either one will go in the top 5.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 04:05 PM
Well if that was your intent for starting the thread I would say the poll has caused your intent to fail miserably. If anything if Oladipo gets a high school boiler fan this riled up, now I am wondering just how good he actually may be...

well you guys are the reason he and that team are so cocky. They think they're the best team in history and Oladipo thinks he's POY. The whole reason of this was to see how many people voted for Burke and to give my point about how Burke will be a 200000x better player than Oladipo in the NBA. But you IU fans had to ruin the whole thread

Slick Pinkham
02-13-2013, 04:08 PM
It's pretty much the same thing

OK, to be a good NBA player is to be an all star, or else they suck. Meaning Dale Davis was a good player for one year. Lance Stephenson must suck. David West just reeks this year. Derek Harper, Byron Scott, Rod Strickland, Ron Harper, Cedric Maxwell, Purvis Short, Phil Ford, Orlando Woolridge, Sam Perkins, Toni Kukoc, Marcus Camby, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Lamar Odom, Chuck Person, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson. Universal career-long suckage. Almost Purdue-like suckage. OK, well not that far, but maybe close.

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 04:09 PM
OK, to be a good NBA player is to be an all star, or else they suck. Meaning Dale Davis was a good player for one year. Lance Stephenson must suck. Davis West just reeks this year. Derek Harper, Byron Scott, Rod Strickland, Ron Harper, Cedric Maxwell, Purvis Short, Phil Ford, Orlando Woolridge, Sam Perkins, Toni Kukoc, Marcus Camby, Andre Miller, Mike Bibby, Lamar Odom, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson. Universal suckage. Almost Purdue-like suckage. OK, well not that far, but maybe close.

Dale Davis was solid many years. He wasn't a scorer but for what he was good at, rebounding, low post defending, etc, he was a very solid player

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 04:11 PM
well you guys are the reason he and that team are so cocky. They think they're the best team in history and Oladipo thinks he's POY. The whole reason of this was to see how many people voted for Burke and to give my point about how Burke will be a 200000x better player than Oladipo in the NBA. But you IU fans had to ruin the whole thread

Oladipo thinks he is going to be the POY? The guy won't even admit that he's probably the DPOY of the year in the Big Ten.

Sandman21
02-13-2013, 04:16 PM
can i not voice my opinion? this is a forum

There's a difference in voicing your opinion and acting a fool, which is where you are treading right now.

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 04:18 PM
The guard I like in the Big Ten from a pro perspective other than Oladipo is actually Harris. G is a fantastic defender and already an incredible shooter. He needs to become a little more confident in his dribble drive, but it will come. I don't think he will come out this year, but I wouldn't mind looking at him late in the first round if he did.

EDIT: Yes, I know the damn kid is from Indiana (Harris), but can we leave that out of it for just a second. It's not our fault the state has so many good players.

Anyway Big Ten guys I like

Oladipo
Harris
Dawson
Burke
I kind of dig Williams Jr. of Minny on his athleticism, don't really know where most have him slotted and he's more of a 3/4.
Think Hardaway JR. has a spot in the NBA, jsut don't think it is on the Pacers. Would take a flyer on Hammons in the second round if he declares and drops.
Payne intrigues the hell out of me too.

BillS
02-13-2013, 04:18 PM
Everybody needs to take a breath and get this thread to reasonable discussion, or it will be closed. There has been some good comparison points made, so that would be a shame.

The responsible parties have been contacted, no seat-of-the-pants admin needed.

cdash
02-13-2013, 07:35 PM
The guard I like in the Big Ten from a pro perspective other than Oladipo is actually Harris. G is a fantastic defender and already an incredible shooter. He needs to become a little more confident in his dribble drive, but it will come. I don't think he will come out this year, but I wouldn't mind looking at him late in the first round if he did.

EDIT: Yes, I know the damn kid is from Indiana (Harris), but can we leave that out of it for just a second. It's not our fault the state has so many good players.

Anyway Big Ten guys I like

Oladipo
Harris
Dawson
Burke
I kind of dig Williams Jr. of Minny on his athleticism, don't really know where most have him slotted and he's more of a 3/4.
Think Hardaway JR. has a spot in the NBA, jsut don't think it is on the Pacers. Would take a flyer on Hammons in the second round if he declares and drops.
Payne intrigues the hell out of me too.

Harris might very well end up the best of the bunch. That kid is really special.

Heisenberg
02-13-2013, 07:44 PM
I don't know about Dawson. Clearly he's a really talented college player, but what position's he play in the pros?

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 10:01 PM
Okay lets look at it this way. I don't think that the Pacers will keep Augustin or Hansbrough next year unless Augustin really shows up in the second half of the season. We will then need a point guard. Burke is averaging 18.2 PPG and 7 AST per game with players like Hardaway and GR3 scoring double digits as well is very impressive. Oladipo is talented and his upside is trememdous. But you can only go so far with athleticism and he needs to get the work ethic that PG has and he may be special. I believe Burke will be special in the NBA. He reminds me of Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook

Coopdog23
02-13-2013, 10:02 PM
I don't know about Dawson. Clearly he's a really talented college player, but what position's he play in the pros?

SF

Mr.Hinds
02-13-2013, 10:15 PM
Okay lets look at it this way. I don't think that the Pacers will keep Augustin or Hansbrough next year unless Augustin really shows up in the second half of the season. We will then need a point guard. Burke is averaging 18.2 PPG and 7 AST per game with players like Hardaway and GR3 scoring double digits as well is very impressive. Oladipo is talented and his upside is trememdous. But you can only go so far with athleticism and he needs to get the work ethic that PG has and he may be special. I believe Burke will be special in the NBA. He reminds me of Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook

He is not as freakishly athletic as either of them. Now he could develop into a Damien Lillard style. Good jump shot, finishes well through traffic and has great court vision.

Rose and Westbrook are few and far between, just from an athletic standpoint.

shags
02-13-2013, 10:19 PM
Okay lets look at it this way. I don't think that the Pacers will keep Augustin or Hansbrough next year unless Augustin really shows up in the second half of the season. We will then need a point guard. Burke is averaging 18.2 PPG and 7 AST per game with players like Hardaway and GR3 scoring double digits as well is very impressive. Oladipo is talented and his upside is trememdous. But you can only go so far with athleticism and he needs to get the work ethic that PG has and he may be special. I believe Burke will be special in the NBA. He reminds me of Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook

:jawdrop:

I mean, I'm a Michigan fan and everything, but if Trey Burke is Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, than Victor Oladipo is Kobe Bryant. Phew.

pacer4ever
02-13-2013, 10:35 PM
LOL Burke plays nothing like Rose and Westbrook are you sure we are getting the same Michigan tape??


Burke is good prospect but please dont put him on this type of pedsteal dont want you to get your hopes up and then you think he is a bust. When he ends up having a solid career as a pretty good pg in the NBA.

pacer4ever
02-13-2013, 10:47 PM
He is not as freakishly athletic as either of them. Now he could develop into a Damien Lillard style. Good jump shot, finishes well through traffic and has great court vision.

Rose and Westbrook are few and far between, just from an athletic standpoint.

Totally disagree Lillard has a Burst Burke could only wish to have. Bigger difference is size finishing ablilty and just hardly ever making a mistake. Lillard was a machine in college never seen a prospect as polished and smart out there. But I have Lillard a grade of a franchise player so it isnt that big of a knock. Burke and Lillard play completely different. Lillard plays like Tony Parker and Burke is more Jameer Nelson IMO. But I like Burkes upside he should be a solid starter one day.

Trader Joe
02-13-2013, 11:01 PM
Okay lets look at it this way. I don't think that the Pacers will keep Augustin or Hansbrough next year unless Augustin really shows up in the second half of the season. We will then need a point guard. Burke is averaging 18.2 PPG and 7 AST per game with players like Hardaway and GR3 scoring double digits as well is very impressive. Oladipo is talented and his upside is trememdous. But you can only go so far with athleticism and he needs to get the work ethic that PG has and he may be special. I believe Burke will be special in the NBA. He reminds me of Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook

Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook....pretty much the last two point guards I would compare him to

cdash
02-14-2013, 01:08 AM
This brings up a good point though--who are their NBA doppelgangers? I have to admit, Burke's tendency towards volume shooting and isos has me a bit concerned. He doesn't strike me as a pass first point guard. My first inclination was to call him a rich man's Darren Collison.

Coop
02-14-2013, 03:07 AM
This thread makes me want to change my handle. Wow.

I'm going to agree with P4E in that Burke reminds me a little bit of Jameer Nelson in college. He isn't overly explosive and his size will force him to adjust a bit in the NBA. He has already struggled a bit against quicker defenders this year so it will definitely be an adjustment for him.

I honestly don't know who to compare Oladipo to at this point because his game is evolving so fast. I do think his first year will be tough for him. As good as he is on defense, there are still some things fundamentally he will have to get sorted out at the pro level. Right now, it doesn't matter because he works harder and is so much quicker than everyone else on the court. Offensively, he still can't go left. But once again it doesn't matter in college because no one is quick enough to keep up with him, even when they know he's going right.

shags
02-14-2013, 07:38 AM
This brings up a good point though--who are their NBA doppelgangers? I have to admit, Burke's tendency towards volume shooting and isos has me a bit concerned. He doesn't strike me as a pass first point guard. My first inclination was to call him a rich man's Darren Collison.

Burke = Jameer Nelson (kudos to p4e)
Oladipo = better scoring Tony Allen

Coopdog23
02-14-2013, 10:03 AM
Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook....pretty much the last two point guards I would compare him to

Which ones do you compare him to then?

Trader Joe
02-14-2013, 10:06 AM
Which ones do you compare him to then?

P4E nailed it. Jameer Nelson.