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View Full Version : Pacers/Raptors Postgame Thread 1/8/13



Trophy
02-08-2013, 10:48 PM
It ends at 15. :(

http://i45.tinypic.com/24bosxx.png
(Courtesy of NBA.com)

D-BONE
02-08-2013, 10:49 PM
Second night of a CHOKE back to back with IU.

Kid Minneapolis
02-08-2013, 10:50 PM
IU loses last night after having the game in control and now the Pacers lose by 2 points after having the game in control.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Trophy
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Any given night, anyone can beat anyone.

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Second night of a CHOKE back to back with IU.


Wtf, choke?

Your definition of choke is different from mine

Raptors played well. Pacers looked exhausted in the 4th quartet.

rel
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
David killed us with his carelessness there. Completely out of character...

FrenchConnection
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
People are about to overreact because of IU's loss yesterday. But when you looked at the schedule and saw 5 games in 7 nights, you had to assume that there was a loss in there somewhere. Sorry that it had to be like this, especially given the mental state of many of the state's basketball fans.

Shade
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Pacers and Hoosiers, you're killing me.

BornReady
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
so uh. we should have won at the end of regulation.

The Future
02-08-2013, 10:51 PM
Knicks might lose tonight, Brooklyn already lost, and this team fails to gain anything in the standings.

This is ridiculous, look how close the standings are 3rd vs 8th seed.

Also, our team is gassed now, so many minutes for our starters, we really need Granger back.

PacersHomer
02-08-2013, 10:52 PM
I hate overtime. Just glad it's over.

D-BONE
02-08-2013, 10:52 PM
Despite the 5 blocks, Hibbert with just 3 boards. Are you serious? As the Raps just cleaned the offensive glass.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 10:52 PM
Disappointing loss to a bad team in front of a packed crowd

Dr. Hibbert
02-08-2013, 10:52 PM
Wtf, choke?

Your definition of choke is different from mine

Raptors played well. Pacers looked exhausted in the 4th quartet.

If you can't call that a choke, you are an even bigger homer than I thought.

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 10:52 PM
Why are we discussing IU

Mr_Smith
02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
In bound the ball properly in the 4th and this is a win. Heartbreaking losses on back to back night with IU and the pacers...damn

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
This game makes me particularly angry at Roy Hibbert. They got to the basket way to easy. And Roy never should have been given the max if he can't play more than 32 minutes in an overtime game.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
Absolute heartbreaker...

Shade
02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
People are about to overreact because of IU's loss yesterday. But when you looked at the schedule and saw 5 games in 7 nights, you had to assume that there was a loss in there somewhere. Sorry that it had to be like this, especially given the mental state of many of the state's basketball fans.

It's not that both teams lost, it's that both teams gave their respective games away at the end.

Hoop
02-08-2013, 10:53 PM
Mental tiredness beat us. Good effort though.

rock747
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Wtf, choke?

Your definition of choke is different from mine

Raptors played well. Pacers looked exhausted in the 4th quartet.

David Wests inbounds pass is the definition of choke.

Dr. Hibbert
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
This game makes me particularly angry at Roy Hibbert. They got to the basket way to easy. And Roy never should have been given the max if he can't play more than 32 minutes in an overtime game.

Hibbert's conditioning (or lack thereof) is absolutely terrifying. I mean, I understand these guys are exhausted, but this just seemed like an extension of season-long problem for Hibbert.

BornReady
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Guys just remember, regardless of how this game went (and yes, I'm not too happy about it) we still had a very successful and difficult week and we're on very tired legs right now. Yes, losses are a downer, but don't let that take away from the fact that we beat very difficult opponents this week in many games!

This is when its important not to get too high or low after a loss.

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
If you can't call that a choke, you are an even bigger homer than I thought.


You can just stop there with that.

Imo choke is when the pressure of the moment causes a player or players to not make the right play. I didn't see that tonight

Basketball Fan
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
I was upset at first but after a few minutes I should've realized it was going to happen at some point..

We played 3 games in a row and had only yesterday off then this game which went into OT they were gassed.

Fortunately they don't play till Monday so they can use the rest.

righteouscool
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
While the loss is disappointing, is anyone really surprised? They just ran out of gas in the 4th. Sure, they threw the game away, but what do you honestly expect when they've played 3 straight games 2 days ago. that is brutal mentally and physically.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Yeah the missed FT, careless pass by West, turnover by Hill with the game tied...sounds choke-ish to me

rock747
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
David killed us with his carelessness there. Completely out of character...

If you watch the replay it was a very careless pass.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
Gaaaaaaaaaaaaah :cry:

Really bad loss. We could win this. We should close it our in regulation. That David West turnover shouldn't happen.

Oh well, **** happens. I just hope that the guys don't get too down on themselves. They were really exhausted.

Win the next game against the Nets. It's absolutely crucial.

The Future
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
Hibbert is a disease to this team. I'm still laughing at half the board who thought he deserved this contract.

I'd rather prefer the lineup of:
PG Hill SG Stephenson SF George PF Granger C West

in crunch time.

Magic P
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
Up four with 13 seconds left is a choke job. They got to the basket way too easy when we were up two possessions.

Wage
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
In 49 other states it's a routine inbounds play, but this is Indiana!

granger4mvp
02-08-2013, 10:55 PM
Tough loss,rest up start another streak hopefully #33 is back next week

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-08-2013, 10:56 PM
People who are wondering why people are upset. People aren't upset because we lost. People are upset because we lost at the end. We had this game. And we gave it away at the end.

D-BONE
02-08-2013, 10:56 PM
Wtf, choke?

Your definition of choke is different from mine

Raptors played well. Pacers looked exhausted in the 4th quartet.

Raps did play well, but two key multiple bad TOs - one at the end of regulation and the two possessions down the stretch when they could have put it away. They choked - 4 point lead 10 seconds in regulation and lose?

rel
02-08-2013, 10:56 PM
Paul needs to be a bigger part of the offense that late into the game

anyways...BLAH. Rest up, P's. You guys deserve/need it.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
It's not about tiredness or not, David west calls a timeout to inbound the ball instead of risking it, we win. The play that most frustrated me was when DJ Augustin let Amir Johnson drive right past him at the end of regulation. A center driving past a point guard with ease? Someone should tell DJ to start defending.

rock747
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
You can just stop there with that.

Imo choke is when the pressure of the moment causes a player or players to not make the right play. I didn't see that tonight

What type of play did David West make? All he had to do was inbound the ball and we win.

The Future
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Guys just remember, regardless of how this game went (and yes, I'm not too happy about it) we still had a very successful and difficult week and we're on very tired legs right now. Yes, losses are a downer, but don't let that take away from the fact that we beat very difficult opponents this week in many games!

This is when its important not to get too high or low after a loss.

Um, we had this game won tonight, we would prefer to get the 2 seed atleast for the playoffs...

You cant just lose these type of games late, the Bulls never lose these type of games, they always seem to win them which is why they are so close to us in the standings.

dohman
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
David west lost us this game tonight. Plain and simple, to many unforced errors prove that he is actually human. Not stuff I expect to see again from him.


Hibbert didn't help. Hard to hustle though when your physically not there. Rebounding is effort and Tonight hibbert didn't have it.

It's nights like these everyone will appreciate Danny granger once he is back.

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Up four with 13 seconds left is a choke job. They got to the basket way too easy when we were up two possessions.

yeah but that is not a choke

FrenchConnection
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
You don't have to tell me. I couldn't sleep last night because of that IU game. But one NBA game with an exhausted team is not that big of a deal. But that IU game was a season blowing loss to a terrible team. No matter how bad the Raptors have been, they are still an NBA team with a couple of very good players.

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Chokes are apparently running rampant in Indiana right now. Can't lose at home to a 17-32 team.

Shade
02-08-2013, 10:58 PM
Why are we discussing IU

Both teams lost by two points to bad teams after seemingly having the game won. On back-to-back nights, no less.

Johanvil
02-08-2013, 10:58 PM
West's mistake was the most important. Call it a brainfart, call it just an error of judgement, whatever, it was really bad. We had a timeout. Then we go overtime and we keep turning the ball over in crucial parts of the game and again Hill missing free throws. All those missed free throws in the games were bound to cost you a game. Add to that the mental and physical tiredness of the team and voila. Still sucks though to lose the game from the freaking Raptors. Such a shame cause Brooklyn lost and NY is in danger of losing their game too.

rock747
02-08-2013, 10:58 PM
Dissapointing loss because brooklyn lost, knicks could lose, and bulls have a game they could lose. We had one we should have won and would have won if we just inbounds the ball.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 10:58 PM
George Hill had a terrible game as well. 2 missed free throws out of four late in the game. This is a game we should have won man that stings...

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-08-2013, 10:59 PM
You don't have to tell me. I couldn't sleep last night because of that IU game. But one NBA game with an exhausted team is not that big of a deal. But that IU game was a season blowing loss to a terrible team. No matter how bad the Raptors have been, they are still an NBA team with a couple of very good players.

The same amount of effort though by either team would have gotten them the win. Give two more minutes of effort and get the win for gods sake.

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 10:59 PM
What type of play did David West make? All he had to do was inbound the ball and we win.

yes but that was a tired play maybe, but not a choke not what I consider a choke

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:00 PM
Refs sux again, officiating was terrible.
Hibbert was worthless again.
West just screwed up.
Hill was fouled from a punch to Hills elbow.
Lance wasted acouple possessions.
And, the refs sux big whistles.

TOP
02-08-2013, 11:01 PM
Despite the 5 blocks, Hibbert with just 3 boards. Are you serious? As the Raps just cleaned the offensive glass.

I don't care about the missed free throws and bad passes... this is Roy Hibbert's fault.

47min 14rebs Paul George
36min 14rebs Amir Johnson
26min 13rebs Jonas Valanciunas
41min 8rebs David West
12min 5rebs Tyler Hansbrough
44min 5rebs Rudy Gay
14min 5rebs Aaaron Gray
14min 4rebs Orlando Johnson
38min 3rebs George Hill
41min 3rebs DeMarr DeRozan
38min 3rebs Roy Hibbert

7'2... max contract... how is is possible to be out rebounded by 8 guys? That should never happen. I didn't even see him tip many out to other tonight either. He was constantly boxed out and never in position for rebounds. That's why two Raptors, one being a rookie combined for 27 rebounds.

Just being 7'2 and near the rim should net you more than 3 rebounds, especially playing 38 minutes. And you don't even have to be good... but max contract? I'm sorry but that's sickening.

Wouldn't be in overtime if he earned his contract and grabbed more than 3 rebounds. He proceeded to do nothing in overtime other than block one shot. That was it... for max money, you should actually contribute during crunch time and be a closer.

:3deadhors

Unclebuck
02-08-2013, 11:01 PM
This thread is bugging me, I better check out

rock747
02-08-2013, 11:02 PM
West is being interviewed right now

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 11:02 PM
yes but that was a tired play maybe, but not a choke not what I consider a choke

Then what the heck do you consider a choke lol

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:02 PM
Lance stephenson has improved so much, but for every good play he makes, he makes a couple dumb ones. Can't wait for Granger's return.

righteouscool
02-08-2013, 11:03 PM
This thread is bugging me, I better check out

Same. Physical fatigue causes people to make mental mistakes they usually don't because the body is lacking in rest. people should be applauding this team for even keeping this game close. most teams would of been blown out in a 4 game stretch like this.

rock747
02-08-2013, 11:03 PM
West is being interviewed right now

and he looks really pissed.

D-BONE
02-08-2013, 11:04 PM
Tire, worn down, blah, blah, blah. I say wtf that? Yeah the make up game placement sucked. Sure they were tired, but we're going to let that be an excuse for blowing a 4 point lead in 10 seconds? That screams choke. The pressure situation had nothing to do with the mental error of throwing a horrible in - bounds pass, missing crucial FTs late, commiting two other unforced TOs on offense?

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:04 PM
There were lots of foolish and out of character plays down the stretch in regulation and in OT.

But honestly, the OT should have been a moot point.

Watching the Pacers broadcast, the ball was clearly still touching Amir Johnson with the backboard lit up.

That's now the 2nd WIN stolen from us, and the 3rd time a call has either LOST the game for us, or denied us a chance at a tie/win.

I just can't stand this crap anymore. We won the game, despite all the dumb plays. Period.

Shade
02-08-2013, 11:05 PM
David West ain't happy.

Sookie
02-08-2013, 11:06 PM
You know, I was hoping the Lakers, Houston, Washington, and the Pacers would get a win tonight.

And it's the Pacers that let me down. Really...

PG needs to be more involved in the offense. And as the point guard (Hill) and the vet (West) they need to make sure PG is involved more, even if PG isn't demanding it. That's what vets and point guards do.

CableKC
02-08-2013, 11:06 PM
Yeah the missed FT, careless pass by West, turnover by Hill with the game tied...sounds choke-ish to me
Given the # of games and minutes that they have played over the last 5 days, it sounds like mental and physical fatigue to me.

But realistically, the Pacers lost the game at the beginning of the 4th QTR......7+ minutes while going scoreless?

This was one of those cases where I think that Vogel should have relied more on the bench to give the Starters some semblance of rest.

LG33
02-08-2013, 11:07 PM
David West's turnover was bad, but my let's look at the bigger picture. The man scored 30 points on 11/20 shooting, secured what should have been the game-winning rebound, and hit two clutch free throws. George Hill missed the free throw, and then he and Lance allowed Rudy Gay a free lane to dunk the ball. Everybody was bad.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:08 PM
Same. Physical fatigue causes people to make mental mistakes they usually don't because the body is lacking in rest. people should be applauding this team for even keeping this game close. most teams would of been blown out in a 4 game stretch like this.

That's just a cop out man. We make one more FT, or not turn the ball over, then we win. We didnt make the easy plays to win. WE CHOKED. It's okay it happens, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be pissed about it. No way in hell should we lose to such a bad team, when we are up 4 with 13 secs left.

Also, why isn't anyone talking bout PG? Rudy Gay went off there a bit at the end.

Goyle
02-08-2013, 11:08 PM
yes but that was a tired play maybe, but not a choke not what I consider a choke

Failing to execute simple plays is what I consider a choke. That's what happened. David gets the ball in, we win.

Magic P
02-08-2013, 11:08 PM
Given the # of games and minutes that they have played over the last 5 days, it sounds like mental and physical fatigue to me.

But realistically, the Pacers lost the game at the beginning of the 4th QTR......7+ minutes while going scoreless?

This was one of those cases where I think that Vogel should have relied more on the bench to give the Starters some semblance of rest.

It was the bench who started the fourth and allowed the raps to get back into a game.

Johanvil
02-08-2013, 11:09 PM
But realistically, the Pacers lost the game at the beginning of the 4th QTR......7+ minutes while going scoreless?



2 points to be precise but I certainly get your point.

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:10 PM
I'm going to look at this as a growing pain, learning experience.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:10 PM
There were lots of foolish and out of character plays down the stretch in regulation and in OT.

But honestly, the OT should have been a moot point.

Watching the Pacers broadcast, the ball was clearly still touching Amir Johnson with the backboard lit up.

That's now the 2nd WIN stolen from us, and the 3rd time a call has either LOST the game for us, or denied us a chance at a tie/win.

I just can't stand this crap anymore. We won the game, despite all the dumb plays. Period.

?? The ball was out of his hands. WE lost the game, not the refs

2minutes twoa
02-08-2013, 11:10 PM
Late free throws and turnovers. Not much else needs to be said. Always sucks to give one away like that.

LG33
02-08-2013, 11:10 PM
Also, why isn't anyone talking bout PG? Rudy Gay went off there a bit at the end.

I have no problems with PG's defense. Rudy Gay made some tough shots at the end (except for that dunk that Lance and Hill gave him). He was 9-25 in total.

BornReady
02-08-2013, 11:13 PM
This might be just me, and people might not want to discuss this right now, but I really think DJ Augustin should take more shots

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:13 PM
?? The ball was out of his hands. WE lost the game, not the refs

Well, they froze the video with the red lights on the backboard illuminated and the ball still coming off Johnson's palm...

sooooo...

Johanvil
02-08-2013, 11:13 PM
Really tough loss to take. Damn it!

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:14 PM
An observation and a question. First, during the first ~5 minutes of the fourth quarter, it seemed like every Pacers offensive play came down to the last second. Why does our point guard spend so much time dribbling at the top of the key, and either chuck up a shot or shove it to West with only 4 or 5 seconds to go? Why not initiate the offense quicker? Is it fatigue or something? Hill does this a lot, but today it was Stephenson hogging the ball too long and wasting time on the clock.

As for my question, why did we go away from Paul George late in the game? IIRC PG didn't even have a shot during our drought at the start of the fourth and the overtime. For those of you who paid more attention than me, was it because Gay denied PG the ball, or was it because our guards just didn't pass it to him?

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:15 PM
I have no problems with PG's defense. Rudy Gay made some tough shots at the end (except for that dunk that Lance and Hill gave him). He was 9-25 in total.

He was getting into the lane a bit more than I'd like. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I certainly feel that George's defense was off a bit, by his standards. Maybe it was fatigue.

Gold
02-08-2013, 11:15 PM
That's just a cop out man. We make one more FT, or not turn the ball over, then we win. We didnt make the easy plays to win. WE CHOKED. It's okay it happens, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be pissed about it. No way in hell should we lose to such a bad team, when we are up 4 with 13 secs left.

Also, why isn't anyone talking bout PG? Rudy Gay went off there a bit at the end.

Why in the world would we talk about the player who played the best defense all game? Rudy Gay just made big difficult shots, that's what he does. Overall Rudy Gay was very inefficient and that's because of Paul George. So let's not talk about PG. lol.

CableKC
02-08-2013, 11:15 PM
It was the bench who started the fourth and allowed the raps to get back into a game.
I recall that there was a good stretch of that where the Starters were playing and not scoring.

But I should have made my post more clear....I meant to say that I think that Vogel should have played the bench more minutes throughout the entire course of the game so that the Starters aren't forced to play so many minutes.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:16 PM
There were lots of foolish and out of character plays down the stretch in regulation and in OT.

But honestly, the OT should have been a moot point.

Watching the Pacers broadcast, the ball was clearly still touching Amir Johnson with the backboard lit up.

That's now the 2nd WIN stolen from us, and the 3rd time a call has either LOST the game for us, or denied us a chance at a tie/win.

I just can't stand this crap anymore. We won the game, despite all the dumb plays. Period.

No, TMJ. Please. Don't become on of those guys that blame the refs at every close loss. That's what the trolls (vnzla and his gang want). You are much more better than that.

Please :(

righteouscool
02-08-2013, 11:17 PM
Also, why isn't anyone talking bout PG? Rudy Gay went off there a bit at the end.

What do you want PG to do? On that last play he played textbook defense. Swiped at the ball when Gay brought it down, tried to pick off his dribble, stayed in front and contested with his hands. Rudy just made some really great shots at the end.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:17 PM
This might be just me, and people might not want to discuss this right now, but I really think DJ Augustin should take more shots

This is what I think too and I do think we're the minority. DJ has been shooting really well lately. I was kind of hoping DJ could be our Korver. Sort of.

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:19 PM
?? The ball was out of his hands. WE lost the game, not the refs

Actually the ball was clearly on his right finger tips with the red lights on. Game should've been over!

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
He was getting into the lane a bit more than I'd like. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I certainly feel that George's defense was off a bit, by his standards. Maybe it was fatigue.

It was fatigue. The guy has not gotten a break all week. 44 minutes in Monday, 39 in Tuesday, 40 in Wednesday, dodgeball in Thursday and 47 in Friday.

That's just too much.

However, it's true that Gay was able to take it on him in the 4th and OT.

PacerPenguins
02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
blame Dwest and Ghill if u want, but both of them along with Paul George are the reason where we are now. Lance has helped too, but Hibbert and our bench playing like **** and we are still 31-20 without Danny..... just one loss.... 4th game in 5 nights.... tough opponent.... just wasnt meant to be

LG33
02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
This might be just me, and people might not want to discuss this right now, but I really think DJ Augustin should take more shots


This is what I think too and I do think we're the minority. DJ has been shooting really well lately. I was kind of hoping DJ could be our Korver. Sort of.

I'm okay with him taking more of the open threes and even mid-range shots our ball movement provides, especially if that means he won't drive hopelessly to the hoop.

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:21 PM
No, TMJ. Please. Don't become on of those guys that blame the refs at every close loss. That's what the trolls (vnzla and his gang want). You are much more better than that.

Please :(

Believe me, I blame US for this loss. We made some really boneheaded plays.

All I am saying is that the game should have ended in regulation. They showed 3 angles on the FSIndiana feed.

One angle (from the opposite baseline) was very difficult to tell... So from THAT angle, yes it was "good"

The other two angles clearly showed the red lights on the backboard illuminated and the ball was still in contact with Johnson's palm (I say palm instead of fingers because he sort of "shot put" it to try to get it away quickly)

I know we screwed the pooch tonight in the overtime. It's on US. But the fact that it WENT into overtime isn't.

If that means I am trolling now every close game, fine. I don't care. The correct call was to disallow that shot.

And I will just point out, for the record, that the last time I complained about the officiating to end a close game we should have won and got called out for it... The NBA released a statement 2 days later saying they missed calls.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:21 PM
Actually the ball was clearly on his right finger tips with the red lights on. Game should've been over!

I was at the game and it looked like he got the shot off. I have the game dvr'd so I'll check when I get home.

vnzla81
02-08-2013, 11:22 PM
He was getting into the lane a bit more than I'd like. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I certainly feel that George's defense was off a bit, by his standards. Maybe it was fatigue.

George was playing great D and Rudy made some difficult shots, he is also long and can easily score over anybody.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:23 PM
It was fatigue. The guy has not gotten a break all week. 44 minutes in Monday, 39 in Tuesday, 40 in Wednesday, dodgeball in Thursday and 47 in Friday.

That's just too much.

However, it's true that Gay was able to take it on him in the 4th and OT.

Yeah I agree it was probably fatigue. By the 4th Rudy was getting to his spots and elevating over PG, which isn't common.

We defensively could have used Danny during this game, no doubt

vnzla81
02-08-2013, 11:25 PM
Believe me, I blame US for this loss. We made some really boneheaded plays.

All I am saying is that the game should have ended in regulation. They showed 3 angles on the FSIndiana feed.

One angle (from the opposite baseline) was very difficult to tell... So from THAT angle, yes it was "good"

The other two angles clearly showed the red lights on the backboard illuminated and the ball was still in contact with Johnson's palm (I say palm instead of fingers because he sort of "shot put" it to try to get it away quickly)

I know we screwed the pooch tonight in the overtime. It's on US. But the fact that it WENT into overtime isn't.

If that means I am trolling now every close game, fine. I don't care. The correct call was to disallow that shot.

Yes you are trolling the referees made the right call.

BillS
02-08-2013, 11:25 PM
I was at the game and it looked like be got the shot off. I have the game dvr'd so I'll check when I get home.

I agree with this. They showed multiple angles and to me all of them showed the shot was before the buzzer.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:26 PM
Yes you are trolling the referees made the right call.

They made the wrong call on the floor, and they decided to use the ONE inconclusive replay angle to justify their call, despite the TWO angles showing the red lights on and the ball on Johnson's palm.

But yes, please, go ahead and antagonize.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:27 PM
George was playing great D and Rudy made some difficult shots, he is also long and can easily score over anybody.

First 3 qrts yes, 4th and OT...Rudy was getting to his spots. No biggie guess it happens.

Much like you would've made the same comment had it happened to Danny (and got jumped all over lol) I made the comment about Paul.

All in all, I'm willing to say it was fatigue. Plus Rudy getting hot on Paul wasnt the reason we lost anyways, just a part of it.

vnzla81
02-08-2013, 11:27 PM
They made the wrong call on the floor, and they decided to use the ONE inconclusive replay angle to justify their call, despite the TWO angles showing the red lights on and the ball on Johnson's palm.

But yes, please, go ahead and antagonize.

Not sure if serious...

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:27 PM
I think the Pacers will benefit greatly if DJ played better. He's capable of playing at a much higher level, as he's shown in Charlotte. It's pretty frustrating for me seeing DJ taking 2, 3 shots a game with 1 or 2 assists. Hopefully with Granger back DJ can hit him for some open 3's. If Lance can tone down the bonehead plays, and DJ doesn't improve, I'd be interested to try letting Lance initiate offense for the 2nd unit and let DJ play the role Brandon Rush had, just camp at the corner and wait for 3's.

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:28 PM
No, TMJ. Please. Don't become on of those guys that blame the refs at every close loss. That's what the trolls (vnzla and his gang want). You are much more better than that.

Please :(

So, Refs allowing all the pushes and holds on Hibbert to clear him from rebounds, over and over again.
No foul called on Lowery for punching Hills arm on the drive to the basket.
No foul called on Raps for pushing West multiple times.
No foul called on West win 3 different Raps fouled him in one play.
And making the wrong end game call.

We're suppose to accept that and what, blame our guys instead for not being perfect. Blame them for bad plays. Makes no sense to me not to blame refs as well.

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:31 PM
Not sure if serious...

I am absolutely serious.

From the opposite baseline angle (the furthest away) - it was incredibly difficult to tell from that angle.

So since the call on the floor was "good" - you have to stay with that based on that angle.

But when they then proceeded to show two other angles in which you clearly see the backboard red lights illuminated and the ball still touching Johnson's palm and he is trying to quickly release it... You overturn the call!

Sorry man, I call them like I see them.

I apologize if I am not just complaining about the things we didn't do right instead.

vnzla81
02-08-2013, 11:32 PM
First 3 qrts yes, 4th and OT...Rudy was getting to his spots. No biggie guess it happens.

Much like you would've made the same comment had it happened to Danny (and got jumped all over lol) I made the comment about Paul.

All in all, I'm willing to say it was fatigue. Plus Rudy getting hot on Paul wasnt the reason we lost anyways, just a part of it.

I have seen Rudy make that same shot a thousand times over anybody that is his shot, he had a game winner not long ago by shooting that same shot over KD, there is nothing you can do there.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:33 PM
Despite this heartbreaker, I thought the Raptors played really good defense at the start of the fourth quarter. I was also impressed with Valacunas's (spelling?) play. So active. But then I wonder if that's because of Hibbert's inability to move his feet. I think with Gay, the raptors are much improved.

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 11:36 PM
I have seen Rudy make that same shot a thousand times over anybody that is his shot, he had a game winner not long ago by shooting that same shot over KD, there is nothing you can do there.

Touche. Though normally the thing Paul does a great job with is not letting a guy get to his "spot" and then not allowing the guy to elevate. Yes Rudy made tough shorsc but he also had at least 3 layups there late as well.

Being at the game it was easy to see the tired legs on Paul-Star.

I'm nitpicking lol. It's easier than to focus on misses FT's and stupid turnovers...ya know the things that lost us the game lol

LG33
02-08-2013, 11:36 PM
Beat Brooklyn and this game is but a distant memory.

PacersRule
02-08-2013, 11:36 PM
Question, the game-tying shot that Johnson made, if the refs called good at the end of regulation, but found the time has actually expired after looking at the replay, can they change their decision? and is that the case for every situation?

cinotimz
02-08-2013, 11:37 PM
Chokes are apparently running rampant in Indiana right now. Can't lose at home to a 17-32 team.

lost 4 home games...2 of them to that 17-32 team

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:38 PM
Believe me, I blame US for this loss. We made some really boneheaded plays.

All I am saying is that the game should have ended in regulation. They showed 3 angles on the FSIndiana feed.

One angle (from the opposite baseline) was very difficult to tell... So from THAT angle, yes it was "good"

The other two angles clearly showed the red lights on the backboard illuminated and the ball was still in contact with Johnson's palm (I say palm instead of fingers because he sort of "shot put" it to try to get it away quickly)

I know we screwed the pooch tonight in the overtime. It's on US. But the fact that it WENT into overtime isn't.

If that means I am trolling now every close game, fine. I don't care. The correct call was to disallow that shot.

And I will just point out, for the record, that the last time I complained about the officiating to end a close game we should have won and got called out for it... The NBA released a statement 2 days later saying they missed calls.

You were absolutely right in the Denver game. I was with you as well.

I was watching the Toronto feed and they only showed one angle. It looked good in that angle.

But even if it was a bad call, the Raptors made a basketball play and were rewarded for it. I have no problem with that. That's why I was so angry after the Denver game. Because the Nuggets didn't make a damn basketball play. That's what infuriated me.

I'm not saying that you're trolling. I'm just saying that the real trolls want to make you look like that. They want you to be a homer in order for them to have a reason to spew their BS. But you're not blind, my mate. You respect the opposing teams and give credit where credit is due. They cannot take that someone can be positive but still objective.

That's what I mean, TMJ. I said it earlier. You're too good of a poster for that :)

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:39 PM
Beat Brooklyn and this game is but a distant memory.

Exactly :)

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:41 PM
Question, the game-tying shot that Johnson made, if the refs called good at the end of regulation, but found the time has actually expired after looking at the replay, can they change their decision? and is that the case for every situation?


Do you mean DURING the play of the game?

Yes they reviewed the shot, and could (and in my opinion SHOULD) have called it "NO GOOD" and the game would have been over, the Pacers win by 2.

But they didn't.

But I am not sure if you are asking if they can review the footage AFTER the game has concluded? Almost certainly no. The most they could do is the same thing they did in the Denver game, where they send out a release saying they "missed a call" or whatever, but it does not take away the loss.

Hence my frustration.

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:44 PM
I was at the game and it looked like he got the shot off. I have the game dvr'd so I'll check when I get home.

I have it dvr and the wife and I determined game over, but I said to her if I was a Raptor fan, I wouldn't want it not to count and settle it in overtime. So, going into overtime, I was ok with. However, I wasn't ok with all the non calls of pushing, holding, grabbing that was going on. It was inexcusable in the name of basketball.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:44 PM
So, Refs allowing all the pushes and holds on Hibbert to clear him from rebounds, over and over again.
No foul called on Lowery for punching Hills arm on the drive to the basket.
No foul called on Raps for pushing West multiple times.
No foul called on West win 3 different Raps fouled him in one play.
And making the wrong end game call.

We're suppose to accept that and what, blame our guys instead for not being perfect. Blame them for bad plays. Makes no sense to me not to blame refs as well.

If you go over to a Raptors boards they are complaining for a lot of calls as well.

They are complaining for Tyler pushing Valanciunas on the floor and possibly spraining his arm again (Vogel pulled him out immediatedly after that).

They are complaining for several no-calls on their drives.

They are complaining for the George Hill call on that drive.

They are complaining for a David West travel when he was tied up with a Raptor guard (I'm not sure who).

When both sides complain then the refs were probably bad but they didn't actually favor one team or the other.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:46 PM
Is vnzla seriously posting in this thread?

Wasn't this "game over" for him? :rolleyes:

Pacer Fan
02-08-2013, 11:54 PM
If you go over to a Raptors boards they are complaining for a lot of calls as well.

They are complaining for Tyler pushing Valanciunas on the floor and possibly spraining his arm again (Vogel pulled him out immediatedly after that).

They are complaining for several no-calls on their drives.

They are complaining for the George Hill call on that drive.

They are complaining for a David West travel when he was tied up with a Raptor guard (I'm not sure who).

When both sides complain then the refs were probably bad but they didn't actually favor one team or the other.

Watch the game again.

TMJ31
02-08-2013, 11:55 PM
I have it dvr and the wife and I determined game over, but I said to her if I was a Raptor fan, I wouldn't want it not to count and settle it in overtime. So, going into overtime, I was ok with. However, I wasn't ok with all the non calls of pushing, holding, grabbing that was going on. It was inexcusable in the name of basketball.


That's all I am saying.

If I was a Raptors fan, of course I would want the benefit of the doubt there too. But I came to the same conclusion that you and your wife did, that the game was OVER at the end of regulation. Now, as a Pacers fan, I don't want the team having to play overtime because... Well you saw why. It was a game that (if that call had been made differently) we won, albeit despite some poor second half play. Instead, we have to run the risk of 5 minutes in which a player can get hurt, or you can lose a game that should have been a victory.

Luckily no one got hurt, but we lost a game that should have been won. And I don't mean "should have" in the sense of "we should have played better and not made mistakes and won easily" I mean it in the sense of "We should have won by 2 in regulation because the ball was on his palm"

Oh well, it's over now... Frustrating to have this happen to us on numerous occasions this year.

rock747
02-09-2013, 12:04 AM
Apparently the raptors broadcasters didn't take to well to hansbrough/Valanciunas spill
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xg6epjY0Icc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

graphic-er
02-09-2013, 12:09 AM
I'mma tell you what, you now Rudy was taking that final shot, you knew, everyone on the floor knew and every in the fieldhouse knew. Why then did we not double him!?? Thats all I ask Coach Vogel, why not double the guy, force somebody else to beat us.

The mental errors are hard to accept, but I get it. When your body gets gassed, your brain starts doing things differently. Hence West's 2 costly turnovers. I just wish Vogel would step in and call the timeout from the sideline, he should have been on top of that. West was already a bit careless with the ball up to that point.

The refs were pretty bad in the last sequences. Rudy gets a foul call for dribbling off his teammate's *** and losing the ball. Hill gets his elbow slapped from behind thus losing his handle. DJ Augustine gets called for essentially a hip check on Valincus (sp) when the reality is that MFer jumped over his back and landed on him. Thus forcing that motion by DJ's hips.
This kind of officiating makes it pretty hard to win close games.

Paul had a good look at the end, just rimmed out. Feel good about that atleast, because in past games he completely lost the ball in that situation and we didn't even get a shot off.

They better show up with a bit more focus on Monday, or Brooklyn will run us out the building.

tadscout
02-09-2013, 12:11 AM
This game makes me particularly angry at Roy Hibbert. They got to the basket way to easy. And Roy never should have been given the max if he can't play more than 32 minutes in an overtime game.

He had 5 blocks and deterred many other shots... They got close to the basket because the wing players (namely Lance who couldn't find DeRozen at times) got past them or left wide open and Roy had to run out to them.

The Raptors took many jump shots when Roy was in the game b/c he was clogging up drives, and when rebounds bounce out to FT area range your Center isn't going to get many of those.... hmm gee wonder why PG had 14 rebounds then.

Lance is the one that frustrated me, he would run down on D and match up with someone else's guy and DeRozen was left open many times (especially in the 1st)...

xIndyFan
02-09-2013, 12:17 AM
Well, they froze the video with the red lights on the backboard illuminated and the ball still coming off Johnson's palm...

sooooo...


Actually the ball was clearly on his right finger tips with the red lights on. Game should've been over!


They showed the replay at the game on the jumbo tron. you could clearly see the ball had left his hand. It was a good call.

billbradley
02-09-2013, 12:20 AM
Four games in five nights. We finally lost a home game. It happens.

Pacer Fan
02-09-2013, 12:21 AM
They showed the replay at the game on the jumbo tron. you could clearly see the ball had left his hand. It was a good call.

And I have a very nice tv that clearly showed it wasn't out of his hand. I will be happy to show you if you'd like to come over. It was a bad call. Period.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 12:22 AM
They showed the replay at the game on the jumbo tron. you could clearly see the ball had left his hand. It was a good call.

Well. I just don't know what else to say at this point. I looked at it, watched it over and over like everyone else, and I simply disagree. But apparently I am wrong, since only a couple other people seem to agree.

Doesn't change the fact that I still feel I'm right.

Also, it's not like I was watching on an old low definition tv. I was standing inches away from a 1080p plasma. I saw what I saw. But it's done now. I vented.

CableKC
02-09-2013, 12:23 AM
It was fatigue. The guy has not gotten a break all week. 44 minutes in Monday, 39 in Tuesday, 40 in Wednesday, dodgeball in Thursday and 47 in Friday.

That's just too much.

However, it's true that Gay was able to take it on him in the 4th and OT.
I blame the dodgeball for this loss then.

billbradley
02-09-2013, 12:24 AM
Well. I just don't know what else to say at this point. I looked at it, watched it over and over like everyone else, and I simply disagree. But apparently I am wrong, since only a couple other people seem to agree.

Doesn't change the fact that I still feel I'm right.

It was without question good.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 12:28 AM
It was without question good.

I respectfully dispute the 'without question', but again, at this point I'm just letting it go because I am furious about it.

Nuntius
02-09-2013, 12:28 AM
I blame the dodgeball for this loss then.

I think that PG, Hill and Hibbert would prefer to have that rest then when the game was in OT :-p

Pacerized
02-09-2013, 12:28 AM
If Granger stands a chance of returning before the break, this would have been the game to bring him back. He'd have the entire weekend to recover and see if he was ready for Monday. I'm starting to wonder if he'll be back before the break.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 12:30 AM
If Granger stands a chance of returning before the break, this would have been the game to bring him back. He'd have the entire weekend to recover and see if he was ready for Monday. I'm starting to wonder if he'll be back before the break.

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully he is close.

billbradley
02-09-2013, 12:33 AM
I respectfully dispute the 'without question', but again, at this point I'm just letting it go because I am furious about it.

Hey, I paid good money to sit 5th row. I understand being upset. But the shot was good.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 12:35 AM
Hey, I paid good money to sit 5th row. I understand being upset. But the shot was good.

I agree, they missed the call and the shot was called good ;-)

But seriously, it was very close, it sucks we got the short end of the stick, and we just didn't make the plays we needed to.

xIndyFan
02-09-2013, 12:36 AM
I think it is safe to say Toronto won the Rudy Gay/Ed Davis trade. Rudy had like what, 6 pts, at the start of the 4th and just carried the Raps the rest of the way. Really nice game.

Also, thought DeRozen was a tough match up for Lance. Not sure why, but Lance just couldn't stay with him. Didn't look like he was doing anything wrong, just unable to stay with him.

Probably not the first time it's happened, but two of the officials were ex-players. and one was an :censored:

Pacer Fan
02-09-2013, 12:43 AM
Seriously, did they show the zoom in where they kept going back and forth, where light was off then on then off then on? Like they did this several times and the ball was not out of his right hand with the light off or on. Im not making this up guys. I see what they provided to see. It is what it is, the incorrect call was made.

Again, I wasn't and still not upset with the call they made as I thought it was fair to go to overtime. But, fair isn't in the refs rule book. I'm old school and look at it in aspect of in game call, not replay, zoom in x10 to see the non-human call.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 12:46 AM
Seriously, did they show the zoom in where they kept going back and forth, where light was off then on then off then on? Like they did this several times and the ball was not out of his right hand with the light off or on. Im not making this up guys. I see what they provided to see. It is what it is, the incorrect call was made.


This is the one I've been talking about. They did the back and forth thing from a couple angles. Clearly not off his hand. VERY CLOSE, but not off his hand.

tadscout
02-09-2013, 12:46 AM
I think it is safe to say Toronto won the Rudy Gay/Ed Davis trade. Rudy had like what, 6 pts, at the start of the 4th and just carried the Raps the rest of the way. Really nice game.

Also, thought DeRozen was a tough match up for Lance. Not sure why, but Lance just couldn't stay with him. Didn't look like he was doing anything wrong, just unable to stay with him.

Probably not the first time it's happened, but two of the officials were ex-players. and one was an :censored:

At times it seemed like DeRozen was invisible to Lance, like he had no clue where he was (he would even go match up with a guy that already had PG or Hill on them even), and it left DeRozen wide open for a couple of easy baskets in the 1st (and a couple more sprinkled throughout the game).

Lance George
02-09-2013, 12:48 AM
A tough loss, but I don't get too upset but single losses, and especially not this loss given the circumstances.

On the plus side, Paul George is giving LeBron a run for his money for the title of best rebounding small forward in the league. George was at 7.6 rpg coming into tonight's game, in which he pulled down a beastly 15 boards. LeBron's currently at 8.2 this season, and 7.2 for his career.

CableKC
02-09-2013, 12:49 AM
I'mma tell you what, you now Rudy was taking that final shot, you knew, everyone on the floor knew and every in the fieldhouse knew. Why then did we not double him!?? Thats all I ask Coach Vogel, why not double the guy, force somebody else to beat us.
My first thought is that we were in the same exact situation when the Pacers played the Grizzlies where Gay was going to take the last game winning shot. PG guarded him by himself and won that matchup....this game...he didn't. I'm okay with the call to not double-team him. I think it was Denari or Buckner that said that Vogel ( and honestly...many of us ) has enough confidence in PGs defense that he didn't decide to double-team Gay.

CableKC
02-09-2013, 12:56 AM
At times it seemed like DeRozen was invisible to Lance, like he had no clue where he was (he would even go match up with a guy that already had PG or Hill on them even), and it left DeRozen wide open for a couple of easy baskets in the 1st (and a couple more sprinkled throughout the game).
I just think that Lance has difficulty getting around screens and keeping up with Players that are off-the-ball. I notice this over the last couple of games where he's the Player that ends up leaving Player open for open shots.

I suspect ( and hope ) that he's going to get better at getting around screens and keeping up with Players as he gains more experience.

CableKC
02-09-2013, 12:57 AM
A tough loss, but I don't get too upset but single losses, and especially not this loss given the circumstances.

On the plus side, Paul George is giving LeBron a run for his money for the title of best rebounding small forward in the league. George was at 7.6 rpg coming into tonight's game, in which he pulled down a beastly 15 boards. LeBron's currently at 8.2 this season, and 7.2 for his career.
How does PG rank among SGs?

boombaby1987
02-09-2013, 01:03 AM
Are we really arguing that he didn't get the shot off? It was close, but the ball was out of his hand.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 01:15 AM
Are we really arguing that he didn't get the shot off? It was close, but the ball was out of his hand.

The discussion is over. I disagree with the call, a lot of posters I greatly respect think it was in time. Such is life. I can only go off of what I saw with my own eyes, on a high definition tv, from 12 inches away, from multiple angles.

Pace Maker
02-09-2013, 01:26 AM
Didn't watch the game, just from hearing about the meltdown we had I think I'm glad I didn't.

Some Raptors fans are pissed about Hansbrough throwing Jonas V down, and to be honest I can't blame them. That stuff has no right being on a basketball court.

PGisthefuture
02-09-2013, 01:32 AM
Didn't watch the game, just from hearing about the meltdown we had I think I'm glad I didn't.

Some Raptors fans are pissed about Hansbrough throwing Jonas V down, and to be honest I can't blame them. That stuff has no right being on a basketball court.

I don't remember that happening.

cinotimz
02-09-2013, 01:48 AM
Is vnzla seriously posting in this thread?

Wasn't this "game over" for him? :rolleyes:

Now whos trolling...

Hicks
02-09-2013, 01:51 AM
Well. I just don't know what else to say at this point. I looked at it, watched it over and over like everyone else, and I simply disagree. But apparently I am wrong, since only a couple other people seem to agree.

Doesn't change the fact that I still feel I'm right.

Also, it's not like I was watching on an old low definition tv. I was standing inches away from a 1080p plasma. I saw what I saw. But it's done now. I vented.

To echo what he said, I was also at the game, and one of the replays on the Jumbotron showed that he just barely got it away. I have to think that if he didn't get it away there would be no angle to show that he did. It's by like a 10th of a second, though.

boombaby1987
02-09-2013, 02:00 AM
I agree, they missed the call and the shot was called good ;-)

But seriously, it was very close, it sucks we got the short end of the stick, and we just didn't make the plays we needed to.

We didn't get the damn short end of the stick. You and the other guy who was complaining about calls we didn't get are the only ones saying it wasn't good. Think whatever you want, but that should tell you something.

CableKC
02-09-2013, 02:02 AM
If Granger stands a chance of returning before the break, this would have been the game to bring him back. He'd have the entire weekend to recover and see if he was ready for Monday. I'm starting to wonder if he'll be back before the break.
I'm hoping that Granger can return on Monday against the Nets....just to return against a high-profile opponent.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 02:05 AM
We didn't get the damn short end of the stick. You and the other guy who was complaining about calls we didn't get are the only ones saying it wasn't good. Think whatever you want, but that should tell you something.

Why are you taking it so personally that myself and Pacer Fan SAW something that we felt was incorrect and defend our position? That is what I don't understand.

boombaby1987
02-09-2013, 02:10 AM
Why are you taking it so personally that myself and Pacer Fan SAW something that we felt was incorrect and defend our position? That is what I don't understand.

I would take your opinion more seriously if you gave me video evidence.

vnzla81
02-09-2013, 02:12 AM
It was expected that this team was going to lose some day, no big deal, yes West screwed up (twice) and Hill was not able to hit the free throws, s*** happens, now if they keep screwing up at the end of games like that and turning the ball over in the next games then we have to worry.

Not saying that it doesn't hurt but at least is not a playoffs game or something like that :)

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 02:33 AM
I would take your opinion more seriously if you gave me video evidence.

Well I will do my best to get screen shots of my view then.

AesopRockOn
02-09-2013, 04:10 AM
Apparently the raptors broadcasters didn't take to well to hansbrough/Valanciunas spill

The Raptors broadcasters didn't take well to anything. They *****ed and moaned on EVERY play. Very unpleasant to watch. Usually the bad teams' announcers can have some fun with the game, but these guys sounded like they had just been grounded by their moms. Easily the worst Pacers experience I've had this year.

cgg
02-09-2013, 04:25 AM
The Raptors announcers are hilariously bad. They think any contact, regardless of going straight up, or who initiates it, etc, is a defensive foul. And they couldn't understand why Bargnani got called for an offensive foul when he shoved his defender in the chest.

TMJ31
02-09-2013, 05:28 AM
I would take your opinion more seriously if you gave me video evidence.


http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?80695-FINAL-SCORE-Pacers-90-Raptors-88-Screenshot-Analysis-Inside

Will Galen
02-09-2013, 07:07 AM
If you can't call that a choke, you are an even bigger homer than I thought.

Really! You think David West got so nervous he just choked the ball up?


David Wests inbounds pass is the definition of choke.

choke (ch˝k) v. choked, chok·ing, chokes. --tr. 4. Sports. To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension:

David West is to much of a veteran to choke in a regular season game like that. Hoop is right!


Mental tiredness beat us. Good effort though.

hoopsforlife
02-09-2013, 08:54 AM
First game I have attended in 5 years. Thanks for the tickets friend of Pizza Guy.
My observations of the game are thus:
1. Some ref calls were questionable but not the reason we lost.
2. David West screwed up. (more than once)
3. Paul George really needs to take ball handling classes
4. Free throws are really important.
5. Lance Stevenson should handle play making more. positives outweigh the negatives.
6. Rudy Gay played very well.
7. The shot was good. But see number 2.

owl
02-09-2013, 09:05 AM
The Pacers need to go under the screens about 50% of the time because they cannot get over the screen
and stop penetration into the lane. And additionally the Pacers need to start having moving screens like everyone
else gets away with.

McKeyFan
02-09-2013, 09:28 AM
Are we really arguing that he didn't get the shot off? It was close, but the ball was out of his hand.
Are we really arguing otherwise? It was close, but his fingers were on the ball.

(I know I am, but what about you?)
(Nanny nannny boo boo)
(Yo mama!)

Ace E.Anderson
02-09-2013, 09:36 AM
This could be said about any loss obviously, but these 2 home losses to the Raptors could be the difference between the 2nd seed and the 5th seed.

Lol I HATE losing to teams we should beat

BlueNGold
02-09-2013, 09:53 AM
This is a typical NBA game where the better team lost the game. This is also one reason why the NFL is the more popular league. You generally know the Colts are going to go out with maximum effort.

This is not to say the Pacers weren't trying. It's simply difficult to get up for 82 games a year. The Raptors, being in last place, simply do not get guys as motivated as LeBron and Wade. Human nature...so we lost.

McKeyFan
02-09-2013, 10:01 AM
This is a typical NBA game where the better team lost the game. This is also one reason why the NFL is the more popular league. You generally know the Colts are going to go out with maximum effort.

This is not to say the Pacers weren't trying. It's simply difficult to get up for 82 games a year. The Raptors, being in last place, simply do not get guys as motivated as LeBron and Wade. Human nature...so we lost.
Kind of a perfect storm. DWest and Hill make stupid mistakes down the stretch--very unlike either of them. PG's defense doesn't work at the end of the game, also unusual. Lance tired after 4 in 5 days and settling for jumpers.

A last tenth of a second call that could have gone either way, called for the opponent. Just not our day.

Since86
02-09-2013, 10:03 AM
Good to see Paul back in the post the very moment Toronto tried guarding him with a SG. This the fourth straight game where PG has done it.

The Pacers really need another dependable scorer. Too many multi minute droughts this year. Danny goes along way to remedy that.

Since86
02-09-2013, 10:09 AM
Idk if the shot was good or not, it goes either direction, but I know Amir just shoved David right out from underneath the basket. Quinn made a comment about it, but it was clear in real time. Johnson drives straight into West and shoots that floater, West turns and then ends up outside of the lane while Johnson tips it back in.

Maybe this is how other teams feel, but it really felt like Toronto was just trying to be more physical than the Pacers down low, which is pretty hard to do. Shoves were good box outs last night.

dohman
02-09-2013, 10:44 AM
Really! You think David West got so nervous he just choked the ball up?



choke (ch˝k) v. choked, chok·ing, chokes. --tr. 4. Sports. To fail to perform effectively because of nervous agitation or tension:

David West is to much of a veteran to choke in a regular season game like that. Hoop is right!


I am a David West homer and even I agree that the man choked down the stretch. He was a beast all game but twice we had unforced judgment turnovers with the ball in his hands. Does he have a history of choking, no. But last night was a example the man is human and mistakes are made.

solid
02-09-2013, 10:47 AM
I'm a big Roy fan and am cool with paying a guy who doesn't score alot. BUT when guards are out boarding the biggest guy on the floor then he's just freaking weak! He was for that game anyway. Three rebounds with zero offensive boards in about 40 minutes is just atrocious. Roy was nearly invisable and I had no trouble at all finding Toronto's centers!
The (not generally impressive) Toronto bigs just killed us tonight.
:gopacers:

BillS
02-09-2013, 11:01 AM
Not trying because they just weren't as up for this game emotionally? What game were you watching? If they aren't playing this game hard there is NO way they lay themselves out like that on a 5th game in 7 nights. They coast or stop trying to push the ball, which was not the case.

I get really tired of losses being attributed to a team just not caring, whether it is the Pacers being accused of not giving a damn about continuing a 15 game home winning streak or if it is every Miami loss neing that they are just goofing off until the playoffs. Yes, teams can lose focus, but every loss to a team that targets you isn't because you didn't care about the game.

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immortality
02-09-2013, 11:25 AM
It was a heartbreaker, I kind of wish David West would stop throwing those football passes, they work maybe 1/5 times. Why didn't he just keep the ball.

BillS
02-09-2013, 12:02 PM
It was a heartbreaker, I kind of wish David West would stop throwing those football passes, they work maybe 1/5 times. Why didn't he just keep the ball.

Because he was inbounding it?

BlueNGold
02-09-2013, 12:07 PM
Not trying because they just weren't as up for this game emotionally? What game were you watching? If they aren't playing this game hard there is NO way they lay themselves out like that on a 5th game in 7 nights. They coast or stop trying to push the ball, which was not the case.

I get really tired of losses being attributed to a team just not caring, whether it is the Pacers being accused of not giving a damn about continuing a 15 game home winning streak or if it is every Miami loss neing that they are just goofing off until the playoffs. Yes, teams can lose focus, but every loss to a team that targets you isn't because you didn't care about the game.

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Like I said, they were trying..... But don't kid yourself. Everyone who has competed in sports knows that certain teams will bring out a better performance. This is not a knock on the Pacers at all. It's just human nature.

BillS
02-09-2013, 12:15 PM
Like I said, they were trying..... But don't kid yourself. Everyone who has competed in sports knows that certain teams will bring out a better performance. This is not a knock on the Pacers at all. It's just human nature.

Don't confuse "performance" with "effort". I have seen teams play against their rival and perform horribly BECAUSE they were so up for the game that they were trying too hard.

I know that in an 82 game season you don't play every game flat out balls to the wall, but i can say from my seat it looked like everyone was leaving it on the court - not successfully for a lot of reasons, mostly both mental and physical fatigue, but certainly not treating the game any different from the previous 3.

xIndyFan
02-09-2013, 12:29 PM
JMO, but it seems too much is being put into this loss. Yes, they lost. Stuff happens in the NBA. Pacers have been playing well. Tonight they didn't. Tomorrow they will. In a 82 game season, sometimes the basketball gods don't smile on you.

99 times out of 100 that last shot would still be in Johnson's [?] hand when the buzzer went off. Tonight it wasn't. Most of the time, the pacers wouldn't miss, what, 11 shots in a row. Most of the time, Gay's last second shot wouldn't go in. Raptors played well, got lucky and won. Stuff happens. Not anything to worry about as a fan unless it starts happening over and over.

PR07
02-09-2013, 12:56 PM
David West made some uncharacteristically bad plays for his standards late in the game, but I think the team as a whole kind of let up for those closing seconds. It was a tough loss to swallow given that the game should've been won. However, West has also won us a lot of game with his late minutes heroics. Hopefully, they come back next game with a bit more urgency.

Jose31917
02-09-2013, 01:37 PM
How I felt in the last seconds of OT. (NSFW Language)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WK7lIjFsGvg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hicks
02-09-2013, 01:42 PM
I am a David West homer and even I agree that the man choked down the stretch. He was a beast all game but twice we had unforced judgment turnovers with the ball in his hands. Does he have a history of choking, no. But last night was a example the man is human and mistakes are made.

Will just displayed what the definition of choking is, and how that does not fit David West.

If you really want to say he got nervous and limpwristed, okay I guess, but I don't buy it. He just screwed up. Just because he screwed up late didn't mean he choked any more than missing a FG late automatically means you choked. He failed, but he did not choke. There's a difference. You can choke and fail, you can not choke and fail. Not all failures are chokes.

McKeyFan
02-09-2013, 11:03 PM
He didn't choke. He stupided.