View Full Version : Something interesting about games missed

12-17-2004, 01:07 PM
http://www.indystar.com/articles/9/202770-6109-036.html at the end

How the Pacers have fared in games missed by one of their four key players over the past three seasons:

Player '04-05' 03-04' 02-03 Total
Jermaine O'Neal 5-8 4-0 4-1 13-9
Reggie Miller 10-6 2-0 10-2 22-8
Ron Artest 5-9 7-2 5-8 17-19
Jamaal Tinsley 0-5 3-2* 5-4 8-11

Notice which records are worse. We seem to not do as well when either Ron or Jamaal are gone.

(Sorry they are meshed...go to the link to see it properly.)

12-17-2004, 01:59 PM
It certainly shows that Ron is very valuable when he is playing. I think most peoples problem with Ron is that we never know when he is going to have a "migraine" or get kicked out for a number of games.

12-17-2004, 03:02 PM
The one regarding Jamaal is very telling.

Los Angeles
12-17-2004, 03:23 PM
It's weird how some statistics betray each other.

For instance: looking at this alone, it's easy to think that Reggie should just pack it in because we can win without him. But looking at the plus minus from last year, it's like he was indispensable. One thing that doesn't work for me: the data is obviously skewed by the brawl.

Reggie missed games while our top players were playing, and has since been playing games with barely a skeleton crew around him. That's not a good pool of data to get any objective conclusions from.

Now look at Ron's total. Does a nearly 50-50 record while a guy is out mean that we can ditch him? Everyone would agree that drawing a conclusion like that from this data alone is a stretch.

Further, Tinsley's 0-5 stat from this year came mostly (entirely?) post-brawl. One look at our early record from last year when anderson was starting, and you could say that when our big guns are healthy, it doesn't matter much who is playing point as long as they keep the turnovers down.

Is Tinsley an x-factor? Yes, when 6 of our top guys are out, he sure is. But then, that just says that he was the only sturdy leg on the stool.

I guess my overall point is that this data is weak and doesn't really consider much bigger factors (like the suspensions) the way it should.

12-17-2004, 08:28 PM
Mel Mel' stats this year are indeed post brawl (the 0 - 5) but remember that with him they are 4 - 3 POST brawl, including the games without Polly, Foster, Reg, Hulk.

up and untill the brawl : 7 - 2

Total with Tins in the line-up = 11 - 5

As for last year; WITH Mel Mel starting they went 34 - 9 which means that they went 27-12 with someone else starting, no matter how you explain that, it is a significant difference.

Last year it was at least home-court.

12-17-2004, 09:13 PM
I'd be much more interested in the stats of how the team does when ONLY JO is out, or ONLY Ron, or ONLY Tins, etc.

It doesn't hold weight with me when it's more than 1.

12-17-2004, 09:36 PM
Look at last year then.

12-18-2004, 10:53 AM
Tinsley becomes 10X more important when J.O and Artest are already out, and then you add in Jax being out and Tinsley invaluable. But overall J.O is the mosty valuable player on the Pacers team.

12-18-2004, 10:59 AM
Speaking of those 5 loses with Tinsley in the lineup.

1. Philly (bull**** we won that game)

2. Clippers (no one played well)

Post brawl

3. Seattle No shame in losing to the team with the best record in the NBA on their home court.

4. Sactown They are good at home during the regular season but I would like to have gotten this one.

5. Golden State. Tinsley goes down tipping in the go ahead basket he goes out and we go on to lose without him.

When you look at the situations the win loss number is even more staggering.