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Eindar
12-17-2004, 11:35 AM
So, the Reggie Miller Denture Preservation Society came out of the woodwork when Reggie got hot to start, but where are you guys now? Apparently he's shot 12% from the arc in the last few games. Same old Reggie, right? Look, his percentages have been great, even last year, but face it, he's too old to carry the team, even for more than 2 games. Reggie is like Barkley towards the end of his career. He's going to have to pick his spots. He can be dominant in spurts, but not for multiple games, and less likely for 1 entire game. Let him find a quarter he likes, put 12 in that quarter, then sit him or something. I'm sure we're going to go back and forth on this all year, but Reggie just isn't consistent anymore.

Mushmouth
12-17-2004, 11:43 AM
Not sure what you're saying

Do you honestly think Reggie should play less right now? With all the offense we have missing? I think he's doing fine and needs to look for his shots until we get JO and Jax back, no question.

If you watched the Hawks game, you would have seen how often they extended two people out to the perimeter when we ran Reg off screens to deny him the ball leading to drives by Tinz and Freddie. He's absolutely key for us right now and needs to be out ther at least 25-30 minutes a game.

Coach
12-17-2004, 11:45 AM
I would be surprised if I said Reggie can carry the team. I do believe Reggie is good enough to help this team as the starting 2 guard. Who do you suggest we start? Fred hasn't carried us in a while. He had a "spurt" in the fourth quarter maybe he should pick his spots. It's funny how when things go bad how we (the fans) want to find someone to blame. (Not an attack at you Eindar just an observation).

beast23
12-17-2004, 01:33 PM
I don't recall ANYONE saying that he could or would carry the team.

However, even with a 1-for-9 performance behind the arc, he's still shooting .343, which would produce more points than a 50% average from two-point range. His overall percentage is .473 and his rebounding is also up.

I saw an interview on the news where Reggie said he is probably looking for too many of his shots behind the arc. Assuming that he takes more shots inside the arc, I think both shooting percentages will remain strong.

Overall, an important stat for Reggie has always been points per field goal attempt. Even with a couple of subpar games, Reggie is at 1.41, comparable to his league record of 1.45 for guards. That indicates to me that Reggie produces just as efficiently and consistently as he ever did. It's just a matter of varying the number of shots that he takes to affect the number of total points he produces, if that is the statistic you go by.

You will hear no one state that he should continue to play 36 minutes a game for the rest of the year. But I believe he is doing everything possible to "keep the wheels on the wagon" until JO and Jax return.

I still hold firm that Reggie as a #2 scorer on this team at 28-30 minutes per game will produce 18 ppg, as a #3 scorer 3 15-16 ppg.

TheSauceMaster
12-17-2004, 01:43 PM
Same Reggie , 2 great games ..falls flat and the cycle repeats.

Kegboy
12-17-2004, 02:06 PM
Okay, let me get this straight. Reggie is averaging 20.8 points on 47% shooting, and you people want to complain that he's only shooting 34% from 3?!

:crazy:

That said, anybody else looking forward to Reggie vs. Jalen tonight?

Arcadian
12-17-2004, 02:08 PM
I am not going to blame any player for trying to do to much right now. It is hard for me to get down on anyone who suits up right now because of the circumstances.

I don't look for Reggie to be a number 1 option. If he stays aggressive and is the 25 min range when JO & Jack come back he will be a solid contibuter.

Deadshot
12-17-2004, 04:07 PM
For one thing, Fred is battling the flu on and off. Anyway, I think Reggie should stay out there. He might not be shooting great all the time, but he still draws his fair share of fouls.

Manuel
12-17-2004, 05:28 PM
At the moment, we need Reggie. And we need him to shoot.

BrooklynJosh
12-17-2004, 08:25 PM
jesus christ.

he's averaging 20 points/game

he's still shooting good %'s despite some slumpage.

he hit the biggest shots of the night when they beat atlanta.

obviously he's not going to be reggie of 1994. no one is saying that. but he's clearly still got some gas left in the tank too - and it's a beautiful thing.

BrooklynJosh
12-17-2004, 08:29 PM
Okay, let me get this straight. Reggie is averaging 20.8 points on 47% shooting, and you people want to complain that he's only shooting 34% from 3?!

:crazy:

truly. it's insane. it's just absolutely insane.

i'm always shocked by how short sighted people are here. it's like you guys always look at the last 2 or 3 games as if that's everything.

and ANYWAYS - reggie hit the go ahead 3 at the end of regulation and the big first shot starting the overtime the other night - no reggie and it's 8 straight losses.

this team is VERY decimated by injury and mostly suspension right now - they are one of the worst teams in the nba by talent level right now. there is no reason to be blaming anyone. reggie is doing all he can and i'm personally thrilled with what he's done so far at his age - it's truly a great thing. don't be blind.

BrooklynJosh
12-17-2004, 10:46 PM
ho-hum - another game winner for reggie.

would be 9 straight losses without mr. miller i say.

still saying he should be put out to pasture right-o?

Lord Helmet
12-17-2004, 10:58 PM
Go Reggie!!!!That shot was awesome he still has gas in the tank!!He is doing all he can and even though he does pass more most of the time it opens up a Foster flush :) I love Reggie and I hope he never retires :devil: Go Pacers and Colts!!!!!

ABADays
12-17-2004, 11:14 PM
If you want to take issue with Reggie do it with some freaking dignity. I have grown weary of the "comic" remarks.

You are talking about an icon here. Has done it year in and year for the PACERS. Could have left, but didn't.

Show some freaking respect.

Eindar
12-18-2004, 06:16 AM
ho-hum - another game winner for reggie.

would be 9 straight losses without mr. miller i say.

still saying he should be put out to pasture right-o?

Just to be interesting, lets answer these in reverse order:

Not out to pasture, but he's certainly not Reggie from even '01, and never will be. Face it. On this team, at full strength, he's the 5th best player...maybe 6th if you include Fred Jones.

That would be 1 straight loss, we beat Atlanta in our last game. Good to see you know your statistics :D

Yep, and Reggie has always been known for hitting big shots. But one shot doesn't make him 25 again. However, one thing that is encouraging his him taking more jumpers. The 3 pointer has always been a large part of his game, but it used to be only one aspect of it. He used to drive and shoot jumpers, and over the last few years, that has disappeared. It's good to see that he's trying it again.

Eindar
12-18-2004, 06:23 AM
If you want to take issue with Reggie do it with some freaking dignity. I have grown weary of the "comic" remarks.

You are talking about an icon here. Has done it year in and year for the PACERS. Could have left, but didn't.

Show some freaking respect.

Heh. I'm as big a Pacer fan as anyone on these boards. However, don't confuse me for a Reggie Miller fan. I loved this team before he came, and I'll love them after he leaves. He is the face of the franchise, and Conseco Fieldhouse is also the stadium that Reggie built. But you've got serious problems if you can't see that Reggie Miller is no longer a night-in, night-out threat. As far as freaking respect, did you hold candlelight vigils for Michael Jordan when he was playing for the Wizards? He's the best player of the modern era, but I didn't see any shrines to his greatness when he was stinking it up in Washington those last 2 years. The FACT is that memories don't put trophies in the trophy case. Reggie Miller can still contribute, but it will be much more sporadic than in the past, and nobody is going to say that we couldn't have done it w/o Reggie. Your obsession really disturbs me.

Get a freaking grip.

ABADays
12-18-2004, 10:06 AM
I don't have an obsession with Reggie. I have respect for Reggie. Anyone who has done for the franchise what he has deserves at least that much. My objections was the 'denture preservation society' remark. If you want to make an argument - make one. I have no problem with that. It's the backhanded attempt at being witty that annoys me.

And if you look at what the others have writen in this thread - seems pretty damn effective to me.

As for Jordan, I only care about Pacer players - period.

MistyRo76
12-18-2004, 11:08 AM
Reggie may not be a threat to score 20 points every night. But he is a legitmate threat to hit the big shot on any given night. Reggie the type of player that can be 0-10 in a game and then step up a hit the game winning three pointer. He seems to thrive when the game is on the line. And I don't think that anyone can argue that he will do whatever it takes to help this Pacer team win. He was begging to be activated from the IR days after the suspensions were handed down and the Pacers only had 6-7 available players. When he was unable to play, he was a coach/motivater/cheerleader on the sidelines. Maybe he isn't the Reggie from years ago, but he is still a valuable asset to this team....esp given their current situation. His leadership and experience are invaluable to this team.

Eindar
12-18-2004, 12:10 PM
I don't have an obsession with Reggie. I have respect for Reggie. Anyone who has done for the franchise what he has deserves at least that much. My objections was the 'denture preservation society' remark. If you want to make an argument - make one. I have no problem with that. It's the backhanded attempt at being witty that annoys me.

And if you look at what the others have writen in this thread - seems pretty damn effective to me.

As for Jordan, I only care about Pacer players - period.

Let's assume that you're not just being overly grumpy for no apparent reason. How is my comment any different from Walsh apologists being referred to as "The Sunshine Brigade"? I would say that Walsh has had an even bigger hand in the success of this franchise than Reggie Miller, because without Walsh, there would be no Reggie Miller as an Indiana Pacer. Yet I don't see you jumping down their throats. Also, if you want a backhanded attempt at witticism, I will give you one:

Who appointed you as Fuhrer of the humor nazis? Are you mean, or just old? I've not seen this vehemence in your other posts, did something happen IRL you want to talk about?

ABADays
12-18-2004, 03:00 PM
Old = mean :confused:

BrooklynJosh
12-18-2004, 06:16 PM
That would be 1 straight loss, we beat Atlanta in our last game. Good to see you know your statistics :D




not a bright man are you? as stated previously - we would have lost the game to atlanta as well - 9 straight total.

reggie hit the shot that put us ahead before harrington hit those 2 FT to tie it - without reggie's 3 with 2 minutes left vs atlanta - hawks win that game in regulation. not to mention the fact that reggie hit the jumper to open OT which got momentum going indy's way.

Eindar
12-18-2004, 08:08 PM
not a bright man are you? as stated previously - we would have lost the game to atlanta as well - 9 straight total.

reggie hit the shot that put us ahead before harrington hit those 2 FT to tie it - without reggie's 3 with 2 minutes left vs atlanta - hawks win that game in regulation. not to mention the fact that reggie hit the jumper to open OT which got momentum going indy's way.

No, I'm borderline gifted if you must know, Nostradamus. Who's to say Fred or James Jones wouldn't have hit that shot? You can't guarantee we lose that game if Reggie doesn't play. If you wanna go that route, I'm going to use your bit of conjecture to say that if Reggie wasn't on the team, we use the 6 million we're paying him on a SG like Jason Richardson or another Stephen Jackson-esque player who is capable of scoring 18 every night, while also playing good defense and rebounding better than Uncle Reg. So, really, we win that game in regulation, not win it in overtime. See how much fun we can have when we guess or make assumptions without considering the ramifications of those assumptions. When you remove Reggie from the lineup for whatever reason, he doesn't just disappear, he gets replaced by someone else, who, while probably not as efficient, will put up similar numbers on offense, and better numbers on defense.

However, unlike you, I decided to stay grounded in what DID happen, not what MIGHT HAVE or COULD HAVE happened. We won. So, 1 game winning streak, whether it's Reggie helping while making 6 million, or Brent Barry.

Eindar
12-19-2004, 11:33 AM
Reggie is now 28.6% from behind the arc for the season, after going 0 for 5 from beyond the arc and 2 for 13 overall. He's still averaging 17 points per game, but scoring has never been Reggie's strong suit, he's been all about efficiency, and right now, that's not happening. Hey, he's the best option we have right now, and he's gonna have nights where he plays well, but clearly he's not what he was, and never will be again. I think the trick now, once we get everyone healthy, and get S.Jax back, is to start him and see if he's hitting. If he is, give him some minutes. If not, shut it down and try again another night.

I'd usually let this drop, but after the caustic statements made against me, I've decided to rub some noses in it.

ABADays
12-19-2004, 11:41 AM
And it hurt so much.

dryley
12-19-2004, 12:48 PM
Too many minutes for Unca Reg the last two nights...I'd have liked someone else (JJ?) to get several of those minutes against Toronto...

Kegboy
12-19-2004, 01:56 PM
So, what do you want Eindar? Freddie and JJ were just as bad from the field last night. Or, are you just saying you want Jack to take Reggie's minutes? Okay, if you want to replace Reggie with a career 30% 3-pointer to spread the floor, that's your perogative, I guess. :shrug:

If Reggie's always been about efficiency, I guess you sleep through Reggie's occasional shooting slumps, like, for example, the '99 ECF. But then, weren't you the one who was saying Reggie used to score 50 points all the time? Maybe you were just in a coma during the 90's.

Hicks
12-19-2004, 02:08 PM
Tinsley is a career 31% 3-pointer too. Let's all twist stats to fit our beliefs. Tinsley should never shoot from 3! :sarcasm:

ABADays
12-19-2004, 02:57 PM
But Tins is also about a 32% shooter from everywhere.

Eindar
12-19-2004, 11:46 PM
But Tins is also about a 32% shooter from everywhere.

This is also Tinsley's 4th year, and he is improving nightly. Reggie is in his 18th or 19th season I believe, and is on the decline. It's an obvious statement, but it's apples and oranges.

dryley
12-20-2004, 04:12 AM
Just re-read my post. What I meant to say was.... I'd have liked someone else to get some of those minutes in the Chicago game... I get mixed up any more with Jalen in Toronto and Antonio in Chicago!

Coach
12-20-2004, 09:46 AM
Since you have this all figured out Eindar I suggest you call Larry and Donnie and they will fire Rick today and turn the keys to Conseco over to you. I think you should put in your application for the Coaching job now. Of course Rick has no idea how bad Reggie is (Larry or Donnie either). I think you could reassign Reggie to be one of the guys that helps people find their seats before the game. :rolleyes:

Eindar
12-20-2004, 02:41 PM
Since you have this all figured out Eindar I suggest you call Larry and Donnie and they will fire Rick today and turn the keys to Conseco over to you. I think you should put in your application for the Coaching job now. Of course Rick has no idea how bad Reggie is (Larry or Donnie either). I think you could reassign Reggie to be one of the guys that helps people find their seats before the game. :rolleyes:


Let's get something straight. I'm not saying I know more than Pacers management. I'm saying I know more than you :D

ChicagoJ
12-20-2004, 02:50 PM
I'm running a little late to this discussion, but I think I've got something important to add that hasn't been said yet:

:lurk:









That's all.

Eindar
12-20-2004, 08:22 PM
I'm running a little late to this discussion, but I think I've got something important to add that hasn't been said yet:

:lurk:









That's all.

Lol, that's hilarious. I have a firm policy of never attacking anyone personally until they've attacked me first.