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Peck
02-07-2013, 12:43 AM
How do I know that this was a great win? Because my complaint of the night is that Frank didn’t get the starters out of the game at about the 3 min. mark and let the deep bench guys end this. I was worried about some dumb bad luck injury happening when the game was already well in hand.

But guess what if that’s my problem, I don’t have a real problem.

Look folks there are times to criticize, question, demand, admonish, suggest, be frustrated, whine, *****, moan, cry & throw tantrums.

This isn’t one of those times.

This will probably be the most useless post I’ve ever written because this is going to have nothing but praise and adulation for our beloved Indiana Pacers. Hell in fact I would lead us all in a chorus of the old Duke Tomato song “boom baby” if we were all together.

I have been a Pacers fan all of my life and frankly I have been fortunate enough to see a lot of big games with a lot of great teams that we have put together and I’m telling you that this win tonight, for me anyway, makes me as proud of our guys as almost any of the other games I’ve seen.

3 games in 3 nights and on the 3rd night we come out and stomp a mud hole into a team that prior to this had won 4 of its last 5 who had been resting at home since Monday and has a relatively easy schedule as far as travel goes since this is their 6th home game in a row.

Look I don’t want to hear about Thad Young, he would not have changed the outcome of this game. He might have made the loss something less but they still would have lost. I don’t want to hear about Andrew Bynum that is their fault for taking a risk on a player who has both a legitimate injury and a previously questioned work ethic. They traded away a really good player who along with Young might have helped them but at some point in time & as far as I’m concerned that time is now we have to stop apologizing for beating teams who are missing injured or sick players. You play the teams that get on the floor with you and that’s all you can do, you don’t control their players.

Okay I do have one other complaint but it is not against the Pacers. Unless the Wells Fargo Center sits 25,000 people there was no way in hell that there were 15,299 people at that game. If they had 12,000 people present I would be stunned. This is simply a matter of scalpers/brokers buying tickets or corp. sponsors buying up large chunks of tickets, that or everybody was in the bathroom all at once every time I saw the crowd.

Look the team has to maintain its composure, they have to take it one game at a time and not get to up or down or any other cliché that you can come up with. But we as fans don’t have to.

Tonight’s game is not one to be taken lightly. This was a huge win. Huge in the fact that had they lost only the bitterest of the bitter would have been on here complaining about a loss. The amount of time these guys have put on the court over the past few weeks is astounding.

So why was this game so great you may ask, other than the fact that they won it?

Because they went a different route tonight than they have the past few games and were not only able to prevail but in the end they totally dominated and frankly humiliated the 76ers (much like the Raptors did to us early in the season I will remind you).

We have been winning the past few games playing good defense but really for us stellar offense. Well tonight I’m sure due to tired legs the field goal % was just not that good and frankly early on as Quinn stated we were settling for jumpers.

So what did we do? We turned the volume on our defense up to 11 and completely shut these guys down. Do you think Evan Turner shot 10% from the field because he just had an off night? Sure there may be some of that but I think the fact that he never had good shots or he only got to take the shots we let him take had more to do with it than anything. BTW, you think Philly would like to have a do over on that draft? I do.

Only Wright & Moultrie hit 50% or better from the floor and again I’m saying because Roy Hibbert was an interior beast and altered a lot of shots and every other player out there was cutting the lanes and slapping at the ball and not letting their man get open shots.

In other words our defense was outstanding again and my God is it so nice to know that when our offense doesn’t click that these guys not only have the ability to turn it up a notch, they can turn it up 3 or 4, and can win a game based almost on defense alone.

I’m just going to go ahead and give grades tonight but I’m going to do it in a very unusual way for me.

Everybody and I mean everybody who played tonight gets an A+ even if their individual performance didn’t meet that criteria. To me the team played at an A+ level so therefore everybody gets it.

But as we all know whenever you have a team play at that level you have to look to the bench and I know that I am almost a fan boy when it comes to him but I can’t tell you enough what a great coach Frank the Tank is.

Did you hear Roy Hibbert in the post game interview? Yes he was funny, yes he went a long way in smoothing over some ruffled feathers people have had with him lately but if you paid close enough attention behind all of the comedy behind all of the affirmation that he is a good hard worker and great person was the meat of the subject about Frank Vogel.
What was Roy fired up about with the 3 games in 3 night’s issue? He was fired up because he said Coach told us that the NBA could have scheduled the game for March but that would have made the Bulls play 4 games in 5 nights and that the coach had us fired up about this.

Why do I love this? Because who knows how much truth there was here. Oh I’m sure that everything is true but who knows if that was even an option. Frank may very well have looked at a calendar and decided that this could have happened. But I have a feeling that it was implied to the team that the NBA was screwing with them over the Bulls.

It MIGHT have been true, it may not have been but either way Frank seized it set fire to it and formed it as any master glass blower would when creating an ornate decoration.

Also not to be stopped there later in the interview Stacy asks what he has done to come out of his offensive slump and he immediately tells us about Frank and him sitting down for a conversation and after that he got more confidence.

Frank Vogel it the best overall coach the Pacers have ever had in the NBA. I said it, I stand by it and I’m not ashamed one bit to admit it. I love Larry Browns teachings but the man was at best a difficult human being to deal with and ultimately he really was a coaching prima donna. Rick Carlisle was a master tactician but as Gnome & Hicks can tell you he had a very poor interpersonal relationship with staff and players both here and in Detroit. Larry Bird was Larry Bird and that meant winning but at the end of the day Larry wasn’t drawing up plays on a napkin and frankly I think he worked very well with that veteran team that he didn’t have to plead with them to do their jobs.

No Frank is the right person at the right place and at the right time.

Speaking of which poor Doug Collins tonight looked like he has aged 30 years since the start of the season. I wonder how much longer he will be in Philly. BTW, he’s a good coach who really has learned a lot of humility over the years and it’s too bad this is happening to him. Well to bad other than tonight that is.

Quietly without anybody really taking much notice Tyler Hansbrough has turned into an actual defender on the court. I was talking to Seth last night at the game about this and we all know how he feels about Tyler but even he was surprised to see how actually effective he was on the defensive end. In fact Uncle Buck should love this comparison but Tyler really is becoming almost Jeff Foster like in his ability to defend and rotate laterally without fouling. He is not and will never be a real rim defender but you look at the disruption he does on the perimeter and it’s really kind of amazing for a guy that big and strong to be deflecting the ball as often as he does.

If you go over our 5 game winning streak, isn’t that sweet to say, you really have to say that our Power Forward position has had zero let down in a game. In fact if David West weren’t playing like a Greek God right now Tyler would probably be getting far more min. on the floor but how hard is it to get time when David West is just an absolute rock on the floor.

Equally as quiet is George Hill in his play. He is almost becoming a silent assassin because you watch him all game and he scores here and there and you really don’t think much of it but then at the end of the game he’s got 15 or so points and you think, really? Tonight he had 1 turn over to go along with his 5 boards and 5 assists. He does though come through when we need it most usually with a big three to either end a skid or put the hammer down.

Also while I normally like to trash on him even I have been happy with Augustine these past couple of games. He has been driving to the rim and getting to the foul line, not to mention being the groin enforcer for us, as well as hitting his three’s. Him finding some offense on the bench has been a blessing to say the least.

What about Orlando Johnson’s play over this period? Am I the only one who doesn’t even give it a second thought when he pulls up for a three? That shot is pure, that is all there is to say about it. Draft value to the extreme for the Pacers at the two guard spot this year, both players picked in the second round.

Was there something to complain about? Oh I’m sure if we try hard enough we could find something but what is the point.

There is nothing and I mean NOTHING more any of us as fans could expect from this team over these past 3 games, let alone 5 overall. They have been entertaining, competitive and even fundamental for some of you old folks (I’m saying I’m young at heart tonight).

Actually now that I think about it that could be one hell of a slogan for the Pacers to use.

Come see your Indiana Pacers with something for everyone. Want some excitement here watch this Paul George reverse alley oop dunk in traffic. Need some speed watch as Lance “the freight Train” Stephenson barrels the length of the court for a circus shot. Or are you really ready to see some old school fundamental basketball then here watch this David West step back jumper over and over and over while no one can stop it.

Look I know I’m off the rails here and once again I will apologize because I am violating the first rule of being the leading cynic of the Digest, but tonight there is just no hiding my inner sunshine.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TDch761krEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mattie
02-07-2013, 12:52 AM
Orlando's shot is so pure we all knew his fade away contested three was going in. Dudes going to be a real strong player. JJ Reddick like I think..

Pacerfan
02-07-2013, 01:11 AM
Really great game. I am so proud of these guys.

I've really enjoyed watching this team grow the past few years. It's making their success now even sweeter.

Watching PG and Lance grow this season has been amazing. Sometimes I find myself just watching those two play instead of watching the game. Boy are they something else!

David West...just wow. He's just fundamental in every sense of the word. He's this team's rock.

I'd love for this team to win the title this year and I believe they can do it. But I just want to say it's been a joy to watch them play and grow this season, and no matter how far they get in the playoffs, as long as they keep playing as hard as they have been, I'll be proud of them no matter what.

Another thing, all's went quiet on the Danny front since that last update a few days ago. I feel that they're going to bring him out any of these next 2-3 games. Can't wait to see him back and him bring another edge to the team. He will most definitely help this team.

The bench has really started to pick up. I could trust Tyler, Ian, DJ, and OJ playing during the playoffs... and maybe Sam Young if he doesn't try to do too much offensively.

Frank has been amazing. For as horrible as JOB was, he sure left us with a gem. He made sure Frank would be next in line for the coaching job if he was fired (which was very likely to happen). So thanks for that JOB.

And Larry. Thanks for this team. You really should come back. This group of guys is really turning into something special. They really personify you. No fear, never give up.

JEM
02-07-2013, 01:50 AM
I agree that Tyler has turned into a solid basketball player this year. I have always liked him but this year he has played solidly on both sides of the floor. He aint an offensive machine or a guy that flies high and swats shots .. He just makes plays and considering he gets 12-15 minutes a night behind D West what more could you ask your backup PF to do? He still needs a left hand though lol. Maybe one day.

AesopRockOn
02-07-2013, 01:53 AM
Roy's postgame comments struck me as interesting as well. He usually doesn't come off as a "**** the world, don't ask me for ****" dude. Much more a "everything you get, you gotta work hard for it" fella. He exuded a very grounded pride and had a sense of transparency with his comments. His coaches and teammates have created a sense in him that he can accomplish what this team needs as long as they push him along. It really is mental with him. As much as we talk about Lance making it because of Bird, Vogel, Kellogg supervision, the same can be said of Roy, perhaps to an even larger extent.

gummy
02-07-2013, 02:13 AM
Orlando's shot is so pure we all knew his fade away contested three was going in. Dudes going to be a real strong player. JJ Reddick like I think..

I live near Santa Barbara and had the pleasure of seeing Orlando in over a dozen games over the years. I was completely flummoxed by how he looked in the Summer League (and in his brief NBA minutes before his trip to the D-League) - he was taking some pretty bad shots and even the good shots weren't going in. And while I know UCSB isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse (and it's college besides), Orlando holds just about every scoring record there is over there while shooting a good percentage - and as has been mentioned, that shot is pure. I knew he was going to turn it around eventually (I remember seeing pacers4ever beating that drum a lot early on - I think he's the only other person around here who saw Orlando play in college). In another season or two Orlando could be what we hoped Green would be, but with better defensive awareness and general basketball IQ.

Happy for the kid.

PGisthefuture
02-07-2013, 03:07 AM
I'm sold on Orlando, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. I know he hasn't shown anything spectacular yet, but I like his game, he can shoot and defend pretty well. I kinda see him being a Brandon Rush type without the off-court issues.

MvPlumlee
02-07-2013, 03:16 AM
Typical Frank to use the "NBA prefers to screw a small market team over a big market team" to motivate the team.
I have 2 remarks about that:

1. Great that the team managed to win all 3 of them against quality teams.

2. It will be difficult to use that type of calimero motivation when you have home court advantage against a good team in the playoffs and the majority of basketball followers think you are the favorite, not the underdog. Let's see how Vogel does in the playoffs before we call him one of the best Pacers coaches ever.
Maybe Reggie can convince a couple of his TNT friends to give the Pacers no chance at all to win even with home court advantage and Frank will happily jump on it.

Alabama-Redneck
02-07-2013, 03:19 AM
Peck, I know I shouldn't "rain on your parade" but Stacy left 2-3 years ago and Brooke took her place...just saying. See how carefully I read and hang on your every word. :D ;)

:cool:

Peck
02-07-2013, 03:28 AM
Well shoot.....:kickcan:

Peck
02-07-2013, 03:42 AM
Okay I knew it was absolute hose crap that there were that many fans in attendance. Check this out.

http://deadspin.com/5982328/sixers-fan-buys-18-tickets-to-tonights-game-for-less-than-a-dollar

Sixers Fan Buys 18 Tickets To Tonight’s Game For Less Than A Dollar
Sean Newell
The Sixers are five games under .500 and hosting the Indiana Pacers isn't doing the Wells Fargo Center any favors, either. Things are so desperate in Philly that one fan was able to scoop up 18 tickets on stub-hub for $.04. He bought the entire row and told Ryan Petzar he did so because it "seemed like a funny idea, and the extra space to stretch out was a plus."


The only bummer in this story is that he got nickeled and dimed on those bogus "delivery" and "service" fees. They really ought to make it proportional to the value purchased.

Alabama-Redneck
02-07-2013, 03:48 AM
Well shoot.....:kickcan:

It is a really good post, by the way, and I agree with 99.99% of everything you said. I just wish I was closer so as to be able to attend some games but I'm not and I'm glad I'm here because your weather sucks. I was in Indy 2 weeks ago...4 degrees and -17 wind chill. I got back to Alabama as soon as possible. FYI, I had the boat out and was fishing Wednesday afternoon. 65 degrees !!! Have a good day.

:cool:

Peck
02-07-2013, 03:54 AM
:tongue:

Will Galen
02-07-2013, 04:37 AM
. . . I just want to say it's been a joy to watch them play and grow this season, and no matter how far they get in the playoffs, as long as they keep playing as hard as they have been, I'll be proud of them no matter what.

THIS!

Nowadays most people just want a title and they don't care how their team gets one. However it's the journey that matters!

I like this team way better than the 61 win team. I like all the players, and I like watching them grow as you said. This is a very good team that's just going to get better, and it's fun to watch. What more can you really ask for?

What if at the all star game George gets with Chris Paul and Howard and convinces them to sign with the Pacers next year via sign and trade? (Pretend it could happen) Some would be ecstatic, but not me. I don't like stars getting together to win! We have the kind of team I like! Meaning no punks with attitude, etc. etc. Just a team of good guys working hard to win as a team! My kind of team! (gush, gush, gush!)

McKeyFan
02-07-2013, 08:09 AM
I agree that Tyler has turned into a solid basketball player this year. I have always liked him but this year he has played solidly on both sides of the floor. He aint an offensive machine or a guy that flies high and swats shots .. He just makes plays and considering he gets 12-15 minutes a night behind D West what more could you ask your backup PF to do? He still needs a left hand though lol. Maybe one day.
His inability to go left is really hampering him. I thought I saw it once or twice early in the season. He's a one trick pony at present (or one-half even). But, yes, his performance of late has been quite good for his standards. I love his passion.

owl
02-07-2013, 09:16 AM
His inability to go left is really hampering him. I thought I saw it once or twice early in the season. He's a one trick pony at present (or one-half even). But, yes, his performance of late has been quite good for his standards. I love his passion.

Will Tyler be back next year? Many on here do not think so. His Jeff Foster like effect will surely be missed.

Drewtone
02-07-2013, 09:17 AM
I live near Santa Barbara and had the pleasure of seeing Orlando in over a dozen games over the years. I was completely flummoxed by how he looked in the Summer League (and in his brief NBA minutes before his trip to the D-League) - he was taking some pretty bad shots and even the good shots weren't going in. And while I know UCSB isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse (and it's college besides), Orlando holds just about every scoring record there is over there while shooting a good percentage - and as has been mentioned, that shot is pure. I knew he was going to turn it around eventually (I remember seeing pacers4ever beating that drum a lot early on - I think he's the only other person around here who saw Orlando play in college). In another season or two Orlando could be what we hoped Green would be, but with better defensive awareness and general basketball IQ.

Happy for the kid.

So could he be sort of like James Jones if we'd kept him?

Unclebuck
02-07-2013, 09:20 AM
I did a little research on whether there were any dates in March they could have made the Pacers vs Bulls game up. My goal was to look for a better scenerio than what the pacers had to go through - 3 in 3. But I am sure the NBA looked at the number of ho,me games this month and decided it was better to do it now and if I were running the NBA, I probably would have done the same thing

Bulls play at the pacers on Sunday March 3rd. Certainly they could have played the following night in Indy. But that would have given the Bulls three games in a row, plus I don't ever remember teams playing back to back against eachother both at the same location.

both teams are off the 11th and 12th, but the Bulls are between playing in LA and Sac-town - so that is out.

The next date is 3/20, but that would have been even worse for the pacers. back to back to back, plus 5 games in 6 days. So that is out


Those are the only 3 possibilities in March


April - there is nothing at all. Unless you want either 3 or 4 straight days of games for one or the other

Botton-line. Don't cancel games in the NBA unles you have to and IMO they didn't need to cancel the game on the 26th.

Anthem
02-07-2013, 09:49 AM
I did a little research on whether there were any dates in March they could have made the Pacers vs Bulls game up. My goal was to look for a better scenerio than what the pacers had to go through - 3 in 3. But I am sure the NBA looked at the number of ho,me games this month and decided it was better to do it now and if I were running the NBA, I probably would have done the same thing

Bulls play at the pacers on Sunday March 3rd. Certainly they could have played the following night in Indy. But that would have given the Bulls three games in a row, plus I don't ever remember teams playing back to back against eachother both at the same location.

both teams are off the 11th and 12th, but the Bulls are between playing in LA and Sac-town - so that is out.

The next date is 3/20, but that would have been even worse for the pacers. back to back to back, plus 5 games in 6 days. So that is out


Those are the only 3 possibilities in March


April - there is nothing at all. Unless you want either 3 or 4 straight days of games for one or the other

Botton-line. Don't cancel games in the NBA unles you have to and IMO they didn't need to cancel the game on the 26th.
Don't ruin our motivation with your facts!

Since86
02-07-2013, 10:31 AM
Good to see PG go right down to the block when Nick Young got matched up on him again. Can't wait to see more of it.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 10:52 AM
Pacers are getting some love from Steven A Smith, he even mentioned Lance.

Sollozzo
02-07-2013, 11:14 AM
Pacers are getting some love from Steven A Smith, he even mentioned Lance.

You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

You can tell that Bayless hasn't.

Trader Joe
02-07-2013, 11:16 AM
You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

You can tell that Bayless hasn't.

Does Bayless even watch sports

xIndyFan
02-07-2013, 11:17 AM
Good to see PG go right down to the block when Nick Young got matched up on him again. Can't wait to see more of it.

:amen:

I keep waiting and waiting for Paul to start using his length. Every time he does this I hope he has crossed the line and can do this on a regular basis. With his skill level, he should be basically unstoppable in the post.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 11:26 AM
You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

You can tell that Bayless hasn't.

It looks like he saw the Pacers against the Spurs I think.

Hicks
02-07-2013, 11:56 AM
I did a little research on whether there were any dates in March they could have made the Pacers vs Bulls game up. My goal was to look for a better scenerio than what the pacers had to go through - 3 in 3. But I am sure the NBA looked at the number of ho,me games this month and decided it was better to do it now and if I were running the NBA, I probably would have done the same thing

Bulls play at the pacers on Sunday March 3rd. Certainly they could have played the following night in Indy. But that would have given the Bulls three games in a row, plus I don't ever remember teams playing back to back against eachother both at the same location.

There you go. They could have made life hard on the Bulls, but instead they made it hard on us. This must be what Frank was using as his ammunition.


Don't ruin our motivation with your facts!

He didn't.

Sparhawk
02-07-2013, 12:43 PM
I've been fortunate to be able to watch the Pacers for a few games on the tv and one live when the Pacers came to ATL. Even though they lost to the Hawks, you can see this team has something special about them.

It's easy to see the faults in the team, as is with everything else, but there are so many positives that they simply crush any detractors. From West just straight up playing some of the best basketball of his career to the huge growth of PG and Lance. OJ is going to be a huge asset off the bench, I'll still think of him as the Pacers 1st rounder. hahaha

It's a good time to be a Pacer fan. It makes me sad that the city doesn't embrace this team through thick and thin. I'd have season tickets if I still lived in Indy. Hopefully more people are watching and seeing that this is a great team that they'll start going to games more and supporting this team any way they can.

These guys are really clicking now. I'm sure adversity will come at some point, but you just have to think these guys are going to weather any storm and come out stronger.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 01:10 PM
It looks like nobody wants to talk about it so I have to be that guy, anybody else was bothered by Hibbert rebounds stealing? not only that but he was yelling at his teammates for stealing rebounds from him? wtf was that about?

BPump33
02-07-2013, 01:26 PM
It looks like nobody wants to talk about it so I have to be that guy, anybody else was bothered by Hibbert rebounds stealing? not only that but he was yelling at his teammates for stealing rebounds from him? wtf was that about?

OJ got two rebounds in a row right in front of Roy. Most guards would step out of the way and let the big man collect those. I'm sure Roy let him know that. Please don't act like that doesn't happen all the time with guards giving way to a big guy for rebounds. I really don't think it was a big deal.

ilive4sports
02-07-2013, 01:39 PM
What a surprise...

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:00 PM
OJ got two rebounds in a row right in front of Roy. Most guards would step out of the way and let the big man collect those. I'm sure Roy let him know that.

There is not reason for Roy to get all mad at him.


Please don't act like that doesn't happen all the time with guards giving way to a big guy for rebounds. I really don't think it was a big deal.

Maybe this happens(I'm not sure) but this is the 1st time I see somebody yelling at another player for stealing his rebounds, not even Troy Murphy would do that.



Note that I'm just trying to see if somebody else feels the same way, so please don't come up with overreactions, thanks.

Anthem
02-07-2013, 02:06 PM
Good to see PG go right down to the block when Nick Young got matched up on him again. Can't wait to see more of it.
Absolutely. Imagine a situation where 4 out of our 5 starters were proficient on the block, and could take it to the weakest link on the opposing team. Most teams aren't like the Pacers, who are full of good defenders. Everybody else has somebody they're trying to hide.

Pacer Fan
02-07-2013, 02:08 PM
Bravo...
Just read with the sunshine beating through my windshield and the temperature rising.
This...gave me a moment.
Thanks Peck

Hicks
02-07-2013, 02:09 PM
Yep. You have to be that guy.

CableKC
02-07-2013, 02:15 PM
Yep. You have to be that guy.
Assuming that Hibbert did get upset...then what vnzla81 brought up is a valid point as it could be a point of contention among Players in the Locker room.

But honestly, I never understood why anyone would get upset at a Teammate stealing a rebound...I guess cuz Players are concerned about padding his stats?

Drewtone
02-07-2013, 02:17 PM
There is not reason for Roy to get all mad at him.



Maybe this happens(I'm not sure) but this is the 1st time I see somebody yelling at another player for stealing his rebounds, not even Troy Murphy would do that.



Note that I'm just trying to see if somebody else feels the same way, so please don't come up with overreactions, thanks.

Didn't see the game, so I cannot state for sure, but I would imagine there's a big difference between a small letting the big get the higher percentage (safer) rebound down in his area and the rookie hearing about it and Troy out on the wing yanking rebounds from Dante/Dunleavy/etc's hands.

BillS
02-07-2013, 02:19 PM
What exactly did Hibbert say, or this just all speculation because he was yelling something after the rebound? Was there a mic on him?

I mean, could it have been, "Aww, ******, I HAD that one, man!" instead of being actually yelling AT a teammate? Or is that not in keeping with desperately trying to find something to make this game some kind of negative for Roy?

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:24 PM
What exactly did Hibbert say, or this just all speculation because he was yelling something after the rebound? Was there a mic on him?

I mean, could it have been, "Aww, ******, I HAD that one, man!" instead of being actually yelling AT a teammate? Or is that not in keeping with desperately trying to find something to make this game some kind of negative for Roy?

Nobody is making anything up calm down...................... yes you could hear him yelling at OJ for "stealing" two of his rebounds, he was shaking his head and swinging his arms, Roy was mad at OJ for doing that.

xIndyFan
02-07-2013, 02:26 PM
Absolutely. Imagine a situation where 4 out of our 5 starters were proficient on the block, and could take it to the weakest link on the opposing team. Most teams aren't like the Pacers, who are full of good defenders. Everybody else has somebody they're trying to hide.

That's been the basic plan for the Pacers from the beginning. Pacers are a Power-Post team that has the ability to take all their guys into the post. Adding Danny to that mix only makes it stronger. The only way a team with out a superstar can survive and thrive is to not have a weakness offensively, that the other team can cheat off of, and not have a weakness defensively, that the other team can exploit. If the other team has a weak link, they do not want to face Roy, David, Danny, Paul and Hill. Because that weak link is going to get a chance to play every time down the court.

billbradley
02-07-2013, 02:26 PM
Nobody is making anything up calm down...................... yes you could hear him yelling at OJ for "stealing" two of his rebounds, he was shaking his head and swinging his arms, Roy was mad at OJ for doing that.

You're quoting Hibbert, so you heard this? Were you at the game?

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2013, 02:27 PM
It is a really good post, by the way, and I agree with 99.99% of everything you said. I just wish I was closer so as to be able to attend some games but I'm not and I'm glad I'm here because your weather sucks. I was in Indy 2 weeks ago...4 degrees and -17 wind chill. I got back to Alabama as soon as possible. FYI, I had the boat out and was fishing Wednesday afternoon. 65 degrees !!! Have a good day.

:cool:

Yeah I got the hell out of there and watched the game yesterday from Orlando. I refuse to come back till someone turns up the thermostat. Or Monday, whichever comes first. ;)





For the 15-30 year old fans, let me say that when you here the 45-60 year old crowd talking about this being one of the finest Pacers rosters ever there is something to that. I know Peck feels this way and Boyle tweeted something along those lines the other day. If you wished you'd been able to see the 94 team or the 98 team, this is what they were like. A likeable group of players, each doing his "thing" in a complimentary way to the rest of the roster. Roy isn't Smits but he is Smits in terms of game impact. More to the point, West + Roy gives you a very similar total package to Dale + Rik. Massive scoring threat from your bigs, huge rim defense. West isn't quite Rik either, he defends better I think. Neither quite rebounds like Dale. But the 2 man package is similar, as are the attitudes.

Hill isn't Jax, not the same at all, but he's a better defender by a mile and a better scorer. PG is better than Reggie and that's the truth. Reggie was clutch and one of the purest shooters ever but his career had less defensive impact than one year of PG.

Danny can come back and easily fill a Rose level and with even more team spirit I think (Rose needed more coaching IMO). And with Lance coming on and working so well with the group, it feels like they might be a little stronger at the 6-8 spots. Young might not be McKey, but length might be the only reason why. Ian is not Antonio, but he could get close, and we have Tyler to supplement that anyway.



It's not the same team but it's the same ideal and a very similar level of talent if you add Danny to it. Like those other teams we've been able to see this one grow after being built in a proper, fundamental way. Piece by piece, no specific homerun moment like a top 5 pick or a $17m FA. Walsh used to spend to keep teams intact and this team shows you why that's a good idea. They look to be getting better everyday. If it's possible top keep this core in place for 3 more years after this one I think it would be a great idea.


The Pacers window opened officially last year. This is what a team that can make a Finals run looks like. There's no point in waiting for something else to happen. It's happening right now. These games are the memories you will talk about at PD parties 10-15 years from now. I know because they look like the ones I remember from 15-20 years ago.

CableKC
02-07-2013, 02:29 PM
Nobody is making anything up calm down...................... yes you could hear him yelling at OJ for "stealing" two of his rebounds, he was shaking his head and swinging his arms, Roy was mad at OJ for doing that.
Do you recall when in the game this happened?

Someone could probably rewatch the game on DVR to see what happened.

I'm guessing that it could be just a matter of interpretation based off of what someone sees....but Hibbert getting mad at someone for grabbing a rebound seems out of character. The main reason that I bring this up is that it's not like OJ is the only guard that can pull down rebounds.....if anything, there are many instance where PG, Lance and even GH would pull down a rebound over Hibbert.....this wouldn't be the first time that something like this has happened.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:32 PM
Do you recall when in the game this happened?

Someone could probably rewatch the game on DVR to see what happened.

I'm guessing that it could be just a matter of interpretation based off of what someone sees....but Hibbert getting mad at someone for grabbing a rebound seems out of character. The main reason that I bring this up is that it's not like OJ is the only guard that can pull down rebounds.....if anything, there are many instance where PG, Lance and even GH would pull down a rebound over Hibbert.....this wouldn't be the first time that something like this has happened.

I don't think is that hard to find it, OJ didn't play that long to begging with, it was in the 1st half for sure, if you go back and read the comments on the game thread more than one person saw it so is not like I'm making some s*** up or I want Hibbert to look bad and I hate him.(not directed at you)

tadscout
02-07-2013, 02:34 PM
Nobody is making anything up calm down...................... yes you could hear him yelling at OJ for "stealing" two of his rebounds, he was shaking his head and swinging his arms, Roy was mad at OJ for doing that.

To me if I was in Roy's shoes I would have been mad too, not for getting a rebound 'stolen' away, but for a smaller teammate needlessly cutting under me... Cutting under a larger teammate like that is just asking for an accidental injury to happen. Orlando could have bumped Roy's knee, or Roy could have accidently caught OJ's head with an elbow.

Roy easily had those rebounds, so there was no need to take a chance like that for OJ... although I love that OJ was going at 100% and trying his best, just saying I imagine that's way Roy was frustrated... but really we as fans have no clue, and we all are just speculating, so there's no need to be reading to deep into this.

Mac_Daddy
02-07-2013, 02:35 PM
All this talk of stealing rebounds makes me think back to when I would always redirect the ball out to the wings when I wouldn't be able to get a solid grasp on the ball just to clear it out and get some space. Does that could as stealing? I'd pretty much just slap it out to a teammate near the 3-point line if I had bad positioning to grab it.

Naptown_Seth
02-07-2013, 02:36 PM
OJ got two rebounds in a row right in front of Roy. Most guards would step out of the way and let the big man collect those. I'm sure Roy let him know that. Please don't act like that doesn't happen all the time with guards giving way to a big guy for rebounds. I really don't think it was a big deal.
Exactly. And their are ASSIGNMENTS, roles guys need to follow to get into transition offense quickly. Typically I'd bet they'd like Roy and West to block out when PG24's man shoots and the long rebound goes toward Lance simply because this starts a 2 on 1 the other way given Lance's ability to dribble up court in a hurry. But a rebound at the baseline where you are better off having one of the bigs make a long outlet where a scorer like OJ gets down to the other end in a hurry? If that's the plan then Roy should be reminding OJ of his role.

None of that's the same as "stat fighting". I strongly doubt Roy has worried about stats in that manner ever. He worries about them in a "I should be doing better" way, but not in a "look at me" way. He knows where he is struggling.


Vets will get testy with young players specifically because their mistakes can be frustrating in the middle of a game. Just like Vogel getting on guys, but also later letting them see the love and hear the positive spin on improving their game. To me this team exudes the sense of support from every member. I can't imagine negative stuff is allowed to exists for very long.


Keep in mind this is the same team that featured a shouting match with Lance in the Houston locker room. They got the F over that issue and that had to be their low point in the Vogel era. Nothing else will have near that impact.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:38 PM
Here are game thread comments so people stop thinking that I'm making some s*** up:



Orlando taking rebounds from Roy is pissing him off.



Roy is mad lol. Feel bad for Orlando, Come on Roy, Can't do that to the rook.

kid is playing hard for some PT.



OJ stole 2 from him in a row. He seemed frustrated. But I won't read anything more into it.



Roy yelled at OJ for stealing two rebounds from him.




Roy better tread carefully right now around here with that kind of thing. Telling OJ to worry about stealing rebounds is a terrible message to send. Go get the ball young man



That is not good, dick move if you ask me.

CableKC
02-07-2013, 02:42 PM
The Pacers window opened officially last year. This is what a team that can make a Finals run looks like. There's no point in waiting for something else to happen. It's happening right now. These games are the memories you will talk about at PD parties 10-15 years from now. I know because they look like the ones I remember from 15-20 years ago.
I know that you have mentioned before the Pacers should simply go all in with the Starting Lineup and figure out the best way to keep the Core 7 Players while filling out the rest of the roster with rookie contracts and role Players.....but my guess is that the Pacers will choose between Granger or West and then stay with Lance ( as many have speculated for the long term ) in the offseason.

Given the likely roster moves that will happen in the offseason ( as in what will happen with West, whether Granger will be moved or not to keep West and Lance for the long term ), am I the only one that thinks that this year's roster is the best chance that the Pacers have to win a Championship?

Hicks
02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
Assuming that Hibbert did get upset...then what vnzla81 brought up is a valid point as it could be a point of contention among Players in the Locker room.

But honestly, I never understood why anyone would get upset at a Teammate stealing a rebound...I guess cuz Players are concerned about padding his stats?

The point is: Leave it to someone like him to ***** about something after a win and a stretch of wins like this. It's gross.

CableKC
02-07-2013, 02:48 PM
The point is: Leave it to someone like him to ***** about something after a win and a stretch of wins like this. It's gross.
Don't mis-read what vnzla81 brought up as "hate" for the Pacers when it just looks like he brought up as something that he observed.

Maybe the wording of the initial post wasn't the greatest...but I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to bring up like this as a point of discussion, even in this great stretch of games.

Since86
02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
I would be more worried if the Pacers didn't have little noticeable spats between each other. Small ones always happen during games, I don't care how good of a team you have.

Hicks
02-07-2013, 02:52 PM
As for Roy, this would be my best guess: He was clearly fired up last night, and anyone who knows Roy at all from watching him before knows that when he's fired up he says/does things that get over-the-top or silly. I think he was just barking out of being too amped up at the moment. Maybe or maybe not was it inappropriate (I don't know), but in any case I would not for one second read into it any lingering locker room issue. I think that's very unlikely.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:53 PM
The point is: Leave it to someone like him to ***** about something after a win and a stretch of wins like this. It's gross.

I feel that you have a personal problem with me, I don't know why but it looks like it, calm down nobody is b******* about anything.

Trader Joe
02-07-2013, 02:55 PM
You guys are jumping Vnzla's **** pretty hard for something a lot of people didn't really care for. If Roy wants to ask OJ to give up a board when they both grab it he should do that after the game. The message of this team is to always go after that ball, Roy understands it, he's the leader of that mentality when he hits the deck. He made a mistake by yelling at OJ about it IMO, nothing to crucify him about and nothing to get all upset about when someone points it out.

Hicks
02-07-2013, 02:57 PM
Don't mis-read what vnzla81 brought up as "hate" for the Pacers when it just looks like he brought up as something that he observed.

Maybe the wording of the initial post wasn't the greatest...but I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to bring up like this as a point of discussion, even in this great stretch of games.

Let me put it this way. It's not my point that he happened to notice it. Hell, I noticed it, too. But you didn't see my saying anything about it. I'm sure others saw it as well and didn't feel compelled to 'be that guy', either. It's an emotional downer to have someone be essentially anhedonic on the heals of a damned good stretch of basketball. It ruins the mood.

CableKC
02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
As for Roy, this would be my best guess: He was clearly fired up last night, and anyone who knows Roy at all from watching him before knows that when he's fired up he says/does things that get over-the-top or silly. I think he was just barking out of being too amped up at the moment. Maybe or maybe not was it inappropriate (I don't know), but in any case I would not for one second read into it any lingering locker room issue. I think that's very unlikely.
I think that Seth's answer makes more sense. I agree...if Roy did it cuz he was p*ssed at OJ grabbing his rebound cuz he was "stealing his rebound"....that is really out of character. But Roy yelling at OJ to get back on script and head up the court for a transition score instead of rebounding the ball makes more sense for a veteran Player to tell a rookie Player.

Goyle
02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
I saw the Roy thing, too. I noticed Lance took one from him early on, and Orlando stole two later and that's when Roy swung his arms and yelled. Dick move by Orlando, Roy shouldn't have reacted that way, I'm sure they've completely forgotten about it by now.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
Let me put it this way. It's not my point that he happened to notice it. Hell, I noticed it, too. But you didn't see my saying anything about it. I'm sure others saw it as well and didn't feel compelled to 'be that guy', either. It's an emotional downer to have someone be essentially anhedonic on the heals of a damned good stretch of basketball. It ruins the mood.

So I can't talk about that because "it ruins the mood" come on man!!

Mac_Daddy
02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
It could be so much worse than *****ing about a rebound or two... Look what Kobe and Dwight are forming over in LaLa Land.

Trader Joe
02-07-2013, 03:00 PM
Let me put it this way. It's not my point that he happened to notice it. Hell, I noticed it, too. But you didn't see my saying anything about it. I'm sure others saw it as well and didn't feel compelled to 'be that guy', either. It's an emotional downer to have someone be essentially anhedonic on the heals of a damned good stretch of basketball. It ruins the mood.

Man, don't let that ruin your mood. It's just an observation. Pacers are still kicking ***, and Roy may be turning a corner. I think they aren't worrying about it, I'm sure Roy and OJ talked about it. It doesn't have to be negative.

Hicks
02-07-2013, 03:00 PM
You guys are jumping Vnzla's **** pretty hard for something a lot of people didn't really care for. If Roy wants to ask OJ to give up a board when they both grab it he should do that after the game. The message of this team is to always go after that ball, Roy understands it, he's the leader of that mentality when he hits the deck. He made a mistake by yelling at OJ about it IMO, nothing to crucify him about and nothing to get all upset about when someone points it out.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it has essentially nothing to do with the specifics of what Roy did. It's just the Nth example of being the fly in the ointment. I don't even really give a **** anymore if he's doing it on purpose or not.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 03:02 PM
I think that Seth's answer makes more sense. I agree...if Roy did it cuz he was p*ssed at OJ grabbing his rebound cuz he was "stealing his rebound"....that is really out of character. But Roy yelling at OJ to get back on script and head up the court for a transition score instead of rebounding the ball makes more sense for a veteran Player to tell a rookie Player.


My point of bringing this up was to see if it was just Roy out of character, I also wanted to see if other people saw the same thing, I also want to know if it was probably some kind of bet between him and somebody else? I know Vogel talked to him before the game, could it be possible that Vogel wanted him to get 20 rebounds and he was using this as motivation? I don't know.


Note that Roy is known for having bets with his teammates could that be why he was mad at OJ?

BillS
02-07-2013, 03:05 PM
None of that has answered my (I thought, completely legitimate and not overreacting) question - what did Roy actually SAY? All of the notes are based on people's interpretation of Roy swinging his arms and saying something no one seems to have heard well enough to quote.

I'm not saying it might not be true, but I'd like a little more information. People watching games have come up with all kinds of "explanations" for things they caught a glimpse of on the court, many of them oriented negative simply because it is a lot more fun to say now that Roy is a selfish b*****d who in the middle of what was turning out to be a good game acted completely unsportsmanlike and yelled at his teammates for getting in the way of his stats. Which hasn't been seen before from him, so I need a little more than "Roy waved his arms, he must be p**sed at guys stealing rebounds".

For one thing, given the number of media people wanting to jump on anything negative about the Pacers, I'd have expected a tweet from Wells saying "Roy is acting like an a$$" or a column from Kravitz talking about how clearly the myth of Roy as a character guy has run its course and the Pacers are on their way to another downward spiral because they can't get good community people like the Colts can.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 03:07 PM
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it has essentially nothing to do with the specifics of what Roy did. It's just the Nth example of being the fly in the ointment. I don't even really give a **** anymore if he's doing it on purpose or not.

So your overreaction is pretty much because whatever I say is supposed to be negative to you, got it......

And yes you give a s*** or you wouldn't be overreacting(once again) to my observation.

gummy
02-07-2013, 03:10 PM
So could he be sort of like James Jones if we'd kept him?

Hmmm. Not sure about that comparison. Orlando can definitely stroke the three, and I think he'll get better at that in the NBA over the next couple of years. But he has more slashing ability than I ever remember Jones showing and while Orlando is three inches shorter than Jones, he still weighs a bit more, and has the potential to be a much more physical defender.

I always thought Jones should have been better overall than he was at 6'8. He's an OK defender, but with the wingspan he has I expected more. James was also a really bad rebounder for his size while Orlando is pretty good for his.

With Orlando we will get every drop of what he has to give and he's a tough guy (if you know anything about his story you know that he has had to be to get where he is today). To me, Jones is a specialty player (shoot the three) and if he's not doing what he does best he isn't a lot of use to you. Orlando will never do anything at an elite level (not consistently, anyway - there will be games where he gets hot and shoots lights out though, if given enough time), but he'll be average to above average in pretty much every area.

So what I'm saying is that I think Orlando will have a better career than James Jones. A good player to have off the bench, though I never imagined I'd see him on our Pacers! Too bad he'll probably get squeezed out when Granger returns, but there's only so many wing minutes to go around...

Sollozzo
02-07-2013, 03:13 PM
PG is better than Reggie and that's the truth. Reggie was clutch and one of the purest shooters ever but his career had less defensive impact than one year of PG.




PG is obviously a better defender than Reggie ever was, but he's not better than Reggie yet. Reggie had the ability to kick his game up a notch and single-handedly take over a playoff series. What finally pushed us into the Finals in 2000? It was a 17 point fourth quarter explosion from Reggie in game 6 at the Garden (34 for the game). I hope PG is able to do something like that someday.

Defense is obviously important, particularly from a team perspective, but in the playoffs you need that special player who can take over on offense and will you to wins. History has shown time and time again that this is what wins in the playoffs. We had that in Reggie.

McKeyFan
02-07-2013, 03:19 PM
The Roy yelling seems pretty simple. A big grabbing the board and making a quick outlet pass gets the ball up the floor much faster than a 2 guard grabbing it and dribbling. If either guy can get it, the big man should be deferred to. He is the one with the task and the experience of making a crisp outlet pass.

Now, if that's the case, why does Lance not get the same tongue chewing? Perhaps because when Lance grabs the board, the ball DOES get up the court just as fast as a nice outlet pass.

McKeyFan
02-07-2013, 03:21 PM
So your overreaction is pretty much because whatever I say is supposed to be negative to you, got it......

And yes you give a s*** or you wouldn't be overreacting(once again) to my observation.

I don't necessarily agree with Hicks on this. But I do think it's worth pointing out that when he ran the board, he apparently disagreed with you just as much, but wasn't as vocal about it, for reasons of propriety I'm guessing. And he never abused his power. That's pretty impressive in my book.

gummy
02-07-2013, 03:22 PM
To me if I was in Roy's shoes I would have been mad too, not for getting a rebound 'stolen' away, but for a smaller teammate needlessly cutting under me... Cutting under a larger teammate like that is just asking for an accidental injury to happen. Orlando could have bumped Roy's knee, or Roy could have accidently caught OJ's head with an elbow.

Roy easily had those rebounds, so there was no need to take a chance like that for OJ... although I love that OJ was going at 100% and trying his best, just saying I imagine that's way Roy was frustrated... but really we as fans have no clue, and we all are just speculating, so there's no need to be reading to deep into this.

This. On one of those (the one where Roy was clearly visibly upset about the play), Orlando ducked right under him and into his body to get the rebound. I think he was probably just watching the ball and wasn't aware of where Roy was, but I understood Roy's reaction.

There was no rebound "stealing ala Troy Murphy going on.

Also, this:

Naptown Seth:
...And their are ASSIGNMENTS, roles guys need to follow to get into transition offense quickly. Typically I'd bet they'd like Roy and West to block out when PG24's man shoots and the long rebound goes toward Lance simply because this starts a 2 on 1 the other way given Lance's ability to dribble up court in a hurry. But a rebound at the baseline where you are better off having one of the bigs make a long outlet where a scorer like OJ gets down to the other end in a hurry? If that's the plan then Roy should be reminding OJ of his role.


Yes, Roy was upset. And I don't have any problem with that.

Since86
02-07-2013, 03:27 PM
I bet whatever Roy said was enough to rectify the situation. He was out to prove a personal point last night, and probably would have pushed over his own mother last night to prove it.

If we're going to bring up these little non-issues though, then Lance getting frustrated and clapping for the ball on outlets is a much bigger pattern.

Hicks
02-07-2013, 03:37 PM
Man, don't let that ruin your mood. It's just an observation. Pacers are still kicking ***, and Roy may be turning a corner. I think they aren't worrying about it, I'm sure Roy and OJ talked about it. It doesn't have to be negative.

I'd almost bet money they're not worried about it. I know I'm not, either.

It's not really specifically what he's saying this time, it's just the bigger picture of his style and attitude. It amounts to a kind of social pollution to me; take a given topic, add his normal brand of commentary, watch the topic go sour or (more) negative in some way and to some (further) extent. Quite possibly to the point where no one or close to no one is even talking about anything else. And he posts so much it also becomes a type of spam to me as well. Ignoring the account doesn't stop the effect. I don't even really care anymore if it's intentional or unintentional; it is what it is. Personally I got sick of it a long time ago. If I could read through threads minus that stuff, I'd do it. But I can't.

I guess today I just felt more like complaining about it than usual. I'll stop.

Ace E.Anderson
02-07-2013, 03:59 PM
Lol I leave a thread for an hour and all hell breaks loose!!

http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

McKeyFan
02-07-2013, 04:16 PM
I tried to PM you but it says that your mailbox is full ;)

Thanks. I think I just fixed it.

gummy
02-07-2013, 04:21 PM
I'd almost bet money they're not worried about it. I know I'm not, either.

It's not really specifically what he's saying this time, it's just the bigger picture of his style and attitude. It amounts to a kind of social pollution to me; take a given topic, add his normal brand of commentary, watch the topic go sour or (more) negative in some way and to some (further) extent. Quite possibly to the point where no one or close to no one is even talking about anything else. And he posts so much it also becomes a type of spam to me as well. Ignoring the account doesn't stop the effect. I don't even really care anymore if it's intentional or unintentional; it is what it is. Personally I got sick of it a long time ago. If I could read through threads minus that stuff, I'd do it. But I can't.

I guess today I just felt more like complaining about it than usual. I'll stop.

I wholeheartedly agree. Maybe once a month I'll say something about it directly, if that. It's just a fact of life on the board now that doesn't seem likely to change since it's been going on so long.

It all follows a very similar script too:

Vnzla makes a negative comment and/or a hyperbolic comment.

A bunch of people jump in to disagree.

Vnzla vehemently responds, usually peppered with passive aggressive "Well I guess I shouldn't have said anything/you can just delete this thread if it's not appropriate/I guess I'm just a hater/I guess I should have expected this" type comments.

During the course of the exchanges Vnzla often responds to people as if they said something different than they actually did or as if something one or two people said is something dozens of people have said (usually by greatly oversimplifying what other people said or ignoring the basketball argument to focus on the personal - "I guess you can't say anything bad about X" or "Many people were saying I was wrong/making it up," or "You just don't like me anyway."). He will express surprise that people are reacting strongly to his exaggerated arguments and makes it about feelings as much as whatever basketball tidbit was at issue ("Why are you overreacting," "Well there's no reason to get so mad about it."). Not infrequently he will slide from one argument to the next without ever conceding that he's saying something different now.

Some people get really upset by all this and usually a quite few people say something. This just reinforces Vnzla's tendency to play the martyr and he doubles down on whatever it was he was saying. Sometimes in this atmosphere people go too far and get too personal in replying to him. A few other people jump in to defend Vnzla. The whole thread becomes about the conflict for pages and pages where it all just snowballs. Some people try to calm things down. Some people pour oil on the water. Eventually it peters out because people get tired of it (I've never seen it end because Vnzla stepped back from it - though sometimes he will go back and delete some of his comments, which makes it harder to piece together what happened). Some people I am sure just sigh and move on to another thread where they hope not to find the same.

Rinse, repeat. I guess some people enjoy this, but I do not and I wonder what the silent majority thinks. To me, it's not so much discussion as it is discursive bickering. It's fine when it happens sometimes, it's a message board and people are people. It's going to happen. But when it happens all the time and one particular person almost always plays a key role in getting it going and/or escalating it? The relentless negative snark, shifting positions, poor me attitude and what appears to be argument for arguments sake gets old, old, old.

Every once in awhile Vnzla has moments where he expresses a negative or contrary opinion in a way that isn't uber confrontational or passive aggressive. Times when he more or less deals with the things that have been said rather than reacting to the feeling that people are out to get him. Sometimes he even has decent arguments that people miss the point of - probably because they are caught up in the cumulative emotions of so many vitrolic interactions in the past. Sometimes the way people react to Vnzla is just as much of a problem as the style and substance of his communications.

I've calmly called Vnzla out for the pattern above a few times before (though never in this kind of length and detail - this will be the first and last time). I'll admit that I've sometimes allowed myself to be reduced to snarky comments that aren't useful at all out of sheer frustration. I've also had a several pretty good exchanges with him. Sometimes he is more funny than grating. I have even defended him once or twice over the years. I fervently wish we got what I consider the "good" version of him even 50% of the time.

But I'll stop too, because what's the point? I didn't want to just be the silent liker this time. I love this board. But somehow one personality has come to dominate a good portion of the content and I don't think that's a good thing. Hell, it's not necessarily a good thing for a community even when the person in question is as reasonable as can be.

vnzla81
02-07-2013, 04:39 PM
Thanks. I think I just fixed it.

Still won't let me PM you because your message thing is full.

PaceBalls
02-07-2013, 05:01 PM
Why does every thread end up being about vnzla81? So what if the Jim O'brien era so damaged his mind that he is nothing but a cringing cynical malcontent? We should have pity on his poor soul! ;)

Loved the odd thoughts. I always agree with everything Peck writes.

BobbyMac
02-07-2013, 05:12 PM
That was a great game and a great series of 5 games! Go Pacers.....

Anthem
02-07-2013, 05:39 PM
I'd like to hear more people's thoughts on Hibbert. Not the rebound stuff, but Hibby's play in general. What was it that he did tonight that he hasn't been doing? Heck, it's not really like he even hit a great percentage against Philly; he was far more effective against Atlanta. But when he gets that look in his eye, there are very few teams that are capable of stopping him without doubling.

I still don't understand why he's been so off this season. He's clearly been working plenty hard. Is it really as simple as "Me and Coach had a talk?" Is he pumped about Danny coming back? Just tired of playing awful? What's the deal?

ilive4sports
02-07-2013, 05:50 PM
I still wonder about his hand/wrist injury. I do think a lot of the struggles have been mental though.

I think the hand really impacted the slow start. And he got down on himself. And he heard the talk about max contract player failing. and it just piled on. Roy is never has been the most mentally tough player. Maybe the talk with Frank just really set things straight, let him just go and play for a couple games. He's looked 20 times better in the last two compared to the Chicago game.

xIndyFan
02-07-2013, 06:20 PM
I'd like to hear more people's thoughts on Hibbert. Not the rebound stuff, but Hibby's play in general. What was it that he did tonight that he hasn't been doing? Heck, it's not really like he even hit a great percentage against Philly; he was far more effective against Atlanta. But when he gets that look in his eye, there are very few teams that are capable of stopping him without doubling.

I still don't understand why he's been so off this season. He's clearly been working plenty hard. Is it really as simple as "Me and Coach had a talk?" Is he pumped about Danny coming back? Just tired of playing awful? What's the deal?

The guys he's had success with were guys that were both too small to bother his length and not strong enough to move him off his base. Guys that can do either of the things listed are the guys he has trouble with in the post. Hopefully he has fixed whatever issues he has, but that is the thing i've noticed about the last couple of games.

Anthem
02-07-2013, 08:49 PM
The guys he's had success with were guys that were both too small to bother his length and not strong enough to move him off his base. Guys that can do either of the things listed are the guys he has trouble with in the post. Hopefully he has fixed whatever issues he has, but that is the thing i've noticed about the last couple of games.
Oh, certainly, Philly is a team Roy should go to town against, although Horford quite a bit tougher. But he's played against weak frontcourts already this year, and hasn't dominated them. Something's (hopefully) clicking for the big man.

beast23
02-07-2013, 09:38 PM
I saw the Roy thing, too. I noticed Lance took one from him early on, and Orlando stole two later and that's when Roy swung his arms and yelled. Dick move by Orlando, Roy shouldn't have reacted that way, I'm sure they've completely forgotten about it by now.
I also saw Roy get upset two times. Once by Lance, once by OJ. Both rebounds I saw were in traffic, so neither would be classified by me as a "dick" move. In each situation, you want any of your guys to be the first man to the ball to get the rebound.

Roy obviously said something to both players, did flail his arms in contempt and seemed agitated in behavior and expression. I wasn't real pleased with what I saw from Roy. Quite frankly, after a defensive rebound, I want the ball in the hands of my guards as soon as possible. If they are able to rebound the ball, that happens that much sooner.

Screw personal statistics! I find Roy's behavior unacceptable and counterproductive to team chemistry. It sends the message that HE is more important than the team. However, it should be a small thing and easily remedied.

BillS
02-08-2013, 07:46 AM
Quite frankly, after a defensive rebound, I want the ball in the hands of my guards as soon as possible. If they are able to rebound the ball, that happens that much sooner.

Not sure I understand this part - how is it helpful for the guard to have the ball in his hands under the opponent's basket unless somehow the alternative play is for the big man to be dribbling up the court (which would be awful)?

It has been mentioned before that having your guards head toward the half court and your big man pass to them is a much faster way to get the ball up. There's a reason that in bounding is often from a guard to a big man and then passed back to the guard rather than the other way around (which would, one assumes, get the ball in the guard's hands faster).

Bottom line though is that we really have no idea after observing things from 100 feet away whether what he did was about what we think it was or whether it p*ssed of or even just slightly bemused his teammates. Heck, maybe what Vogel told him was to get more aggressive out there and his teammates not only agree they think it is GREAT to have him so interested in taking things himself.

Anthem
02-08-2013, 07:54 AM
Bottom line though is that we really have no idea after observing things from 100 feet away whether what he did was about what we think it was or whether it p*ssed of or even just slightly bemused his teammates. Heck, maybe what Vogel told him was to get more aggressive out there and his teammates not only agree they think it is GREAT to have him so interested in taking things himself.
Yep. We don't have enough data.

What we DO have data about is that Roy has, for a long time, had a reputation as a soft-spoken guy and a good teammate. The idea that he's suddenly become a stat whore is... unlikely without some real data.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:00 AM
There is not reason for Roy to get all mad at him.



Maybe this happens(I'm not sure) but this is the 1st time I see somebody yelling at another player for stealing his rebounds, not even Troy Murphy would do that.



Note that I'm just trying to see if somebody else feels the same way, so please don't come up with overreactions, thanks.

Our guards are extremely rebound happy. PG, Hill and even Lance with OJ like to crash the defensive boards. West is also a very good defensive rebounder.

The result of this is that Roy doesn't grab a lot of defensive boards. When Roy attempts to block a shot or boxes out his man, I don't think that he has any trouble with our guards getting the board. I'm sure he appreciates it. But when the guard jump in front of him to get the rebound while no one else is around, I'm sure that he'd find it annoying. It makes tons of sense.

I'm quite sure that West has yelled to Lance for this very reason once or twice.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:07 AM
But honestly, I never understood why anyone would get upset at a Teammate stealing a rebound...I guess cuz Players are concerned about padding his stats?

It matters for a big. Bigs that are paid a lot of bucks, play big minutes and are not 16+ PPG scorers get a lot of **** if they don't average double-digit boards. Or at least 9.

Roy knows that he is not producing well offensively and is aware of all the criticism. Don't you think that if he upped his rebound numbers at 10 per game, he would get a lot less ****?

Frankly, it must be annoying for a big to work his *** off defensively, alter tons of shots and box out his opponent only to have a guard take a rebound away from him while no opponent is in the vicinity.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:22 AM
I know Vogel talked to him before the game, could it be possible that Vogel wanted him to get 20 rebounds and he was using this as motivation? I don't know.


Hmm, that could be pretty interesting.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:27 AM
Now, if that's the case, why does Lance not get the same tongue chewing? Perhaps because when Lance grabs the board, the ball DOES get up the court just as fast as a nice outlet pass.

I think that I've seen Lance getting this by West once or twice. But Lance certainly does an excellent job on getting the ball up court as fast as possible.

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 10:30 AM
Roy had perhaps his best half of the season in the first half against Toronto. He had 14 pts and 6 boards at half. If he can do another big game tonight, we might be in a good spot with him mentally.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:35 AM
A bunch of people jump in to disagree.


I've been guilty of that every single time.

cgg
02-08-2013, 10:46 AM
Roy had perhaps his best half of the season in the first half against Toronto. He had 14 pts and 6 boards at half. If he can do another big game tonight, we might be in a good spot with him mentally.

He'll have to match up against the mighty Aaron Gray this time...

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 10:50 AM
I don't get why this Roy thing is such a big deal. We have NEVER seen anything of the sort out of Roy before, and he's never been one to worry about padding his stats, etc. I honestly believe Roy was probably yelling at OJ telling him to get his a$$ up the court and into transition.

Kind of like "Hey rook, me and D.West got it locked down here, get out in transition damnit"

I've seen West be just as demonstrative for other things, and nobody questions it. Honestly, had West done the same thing, I doubt anybody would make a stink about it.

I think until it becomes something that is an obvious problem, we should give Roy the same benefit of the doubt.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 10:52 AM
I'd like to hear more people's thoughts on Hibbert. Not the rebound stuff, but Hibby's play in general. What was it that he did tonight that he hasn't been doing? Heck, it's not really like he even hit a great percentage against Philly; he was far more effective against Atlanta. But when he gets that look in his eye, there are very few teams that are capable of stopping him without doubling.

I still don't understand why he's been so off this season. He's clearly been working plenty hard. Is it really as simple as "Me and Coach had a talk?" Is he pumped about Danny coming back? Just tired of playing awful? What's the deal?

Frankly, I think that Kwame Brown was a big reason for that. Remember this story? -> http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?70010-Just-an-intersting-little-tidbit

Here's the Head2Head between Roy and Kwame -> http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hibbero01&p2=brownkw01

I also recall Sanders calling him out this season (I cannot find any links, though). What did Roy do on the next game against the Bucks? He puts up 20 and 15.

Roy plays better when he's angry or when he is out to prove something. We have to keep him motivated. Let's hope that several opposing players are going to say something negative about him so he gets fired up :laugh:

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:01 AM
He'll have to match up against the mighty Aaron Gray this time...

Gray is playing better as of late. Excluding the last game againt Boston, he had a 4 game stretch in which he averaged 10.7 PPG and 11.2 RPG while shooting 59.3% from the field (19-32). He had a 22/10 game against the Warriors and a 7/12/4 game against the Clippers.

Gray has the size and strength to defend Roy. We will see that happen. I expect Val to get more playing time :)

imawhat
02-08-2013, 11:09 AM
Yep. We don't have enough data.

What we DO have data about is that Roy has, for a long time, had a reputation as a soft-spoken guy and a good teammate. The idea that he's suddenly become a stat whore is... unlikely without some real data.

Is there a way to do a twitter search on Hibbert's twitter? He's made comments in the past like "come on man...big dawg needs his rebounds".

*edit* found it-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/263905541938638848

I've seen him reference his stats before, but it's weird that he got so mad because he's generally so unselfish. Maybe it was the combo of fatigue, Frank's talk about the league screwing us over, and the Major League clip :).

As far as his better play, I've expected it to happen once he got into better shape. Frankly I expected it to happen in mid December, but he still looks out of shape to me. I'm probably wrong, but he just looked like he was in better shape last season (and the season before).

imawhat
02-08-2013, 11:13 AM
Not sure I understand this part - how is it helpful for the guard to have the ball in his hands under the opponent's basket unless somehow the alternative play is for the big man to be dribbling up the court (which would be awful)?

It has been mentioned before that having your guards head toward the half court and your big man pass to them is a much faster way to get the ball up. There's a reason that in bounding is often from a guard to a big man and then passed back to the guard rather than the other way around (which would, one assumes, get the ball in the guard's hands faster).

Bottom line though is that we really have no idea after observing things from 100 feet away whether what he did was about what we think it was or whether it p*ssed of or even just slightly bemused his teammates. Heck, maybe what Vogel told him was to get more aggressive out there and his teammates not only agree they think it is GREAT to have him so interested in taking things himself.

I agree with this in principle but we normally advance the ball faster when the guards rebound. We usually slow up on the outlet but push if the guard dribbles from the basket. It's weird.

Hicks
02-08-2013, 11:14 AM
I think taking Roy too seriously about this would be a mistake. Strikes me as half-serious at best.

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 11:17 AM
Every player in every sport knows their stats. Once you play a sport long enough you can keep track of it without even trying. You think when someone gets a rebound added after a game or an assist or a block that the stat guy was reviewing all that without prompting? Hell no.

It's not a problem that Roy wanted the boards, and it's not a problem that he knows his stats, it's just that in this one instance, some of us myself included along with Vnzla, would have like to have seen Roy handle it a little differently. That's all. It's not really criticism because he doesn't, as of now, make a habit out of it. The big thing for me is that I just don't want a rookie like OJ to be thinking about if he is "stealing" a rebound from someone when he has a chance to gain possession for us. I have faith that if there was an issue of this here that Roy probably addressed it after the game and that it won't be a big deal moving forward.

Indra
02-08-2013, 11:18 AM
I wholeheartedly agree. Maybe once a month I'll say something about it directly, if that. It's just a fact of life on the board now that doesn't seem likely to change since it's been going on so long.

It all follows a very similar script too:

Vnzla makes a negative comment and/or a hyperbolic comment.

A bunch of people jump in to disagree.

Vnzla vehemently responds, usually peppered with passive aggressive "Well I guess I shouldn't have said anything/you can just delete this thread if it's not appropriate/I guess I'm just a hater/I guess I should have expected this" type comments.

During the course of the exchanges Vnzla often responds to people as if they said something different than they actually did or as if something one or two people said is something dozens of people have said (usually by greatly oversimplifying what other people said or ignoring the basketball argument to focus on the personal - "I guess you can't say anything bad about X" or "Many people were saying I was wrong/making it up," or "You just don't like me anyway."). He will express surprise that people are reacting strongly to his exaggerated arguments and makes it about feelings as much as whatever basketball tidbit was at issue ("Why are you overreacting," "Well there's no reason to get so mad about it."). Not infrequently he will slide from one argument to the next without ever conceding that he's saying something different now.

Some people get really upset by all this and usually a quite few people say something. This just reinforces Vnzla's tendency to play the martyr and he doubles down on whatever it was he was saying. Sometimes in this atmosphere people go too far and get too personal in replying to him. A few other people jump in to defend Vnzla. The whole thread becomes about the conflict for pages and pages where it all just snowballs. Some people try to calm things down. Some people pour oil on the water. Eventually it peters out because people get tired of it (I've never seen it end because Vnzla stepped back from it - though sometimes he will go back and delete some of his comments, which makes it harder to piece together what happened). Some people I am sure just sigh and move on to another thread where they hope not to find the same.

Rinse, repeat. I guess some people enjoy this, but I do not and I wonder what the silent majority thinks. To me, it's not so much discussion as it is discursive bickering. It's fine when it happens sometimes, it's a message board and people are people. It's going to happen. But when it happens all the time and one particular person almost always plays a key role in getting it going and/or escalating it? The relentless negative snark, shifting positions, poor me attitude and what appears to be argument for arguments sake gets old, old, old.

Every once in awhile Vnzla has moments where he expresses a negative or contrary opinion in a way that isn't uber confrontational or passive aggressive. Times when he more or less deals with the things that have been said rather than reacting to the feeling that people are out to get him. Sometimes he even has decent arguments that people miss the point of - probably because they are caught up in the cumulative emotions of so many vitrolic interactions in the past. Sometimes the way people react to Vnzla is just as much of a problem as the style and substance of his communications.

I've calmly called Vnzla out for the pattern above a few times before (though never in this kind of length and detail - this will be the first and last time). I'll admit that I've sometimes allowed myself to be reduced to snarky comments that aren't useful at all out of sheer frustration. I've also had a several pretty good exchanges with him. Sometimes he is more funny than grating. I have even defended him once or twice over the years. I fervently wish we got what I consider the "good" version of him even 50% of the time.

But I'll stop too, because what's the point? I didn't want to just be the silent liker this time. I love this board. But somehow one personality has come to dominate a good portion of the content and I don't think that's a good thing. Hell, it's not necessarily a good thing for a community even when the person in question is as reasonable as can be.

You said you wonder what "the silent majority" thinks, well I'm about as silent on here as it comes. I read just about every thread but rarely post, and I find vnzla81 to be so frustrating to read that I'll typically stop reading any thread he has multiple posts in. It's so tiresome and brings down my enjoyment of this board greatly. It's like you said, bickering for the sake of bickering. He trolls the board with controversial or hyperbolic statements and acts flabbergasted and hurt when people respond strongly. He's actually the finest troll I've ever seen on the internet. He pushes the envelope just far enough to upset everyone, but never breaks the rules. Mods can't (or won't) do anything about it even though it's obvious trolling and upsets a large portion of this community.

Just my thoughts. I find his personality on this forum to be unbearable.

Nuntius
02-08-2013, 11:46 AM
You said you wonder what "the silent majority" thinks, well I'm about as silent on here as it comes.

You should post more often. Indra is an amazing name.

Anthem
02-08-2013, 11:51 AM
Is there a way to do a twitter search on Hibbert's twitter? He's made comments in the past like "come on man...big dawg needs his rebounds".

*edit* found it-
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hoya2aPacer/status/263905541938638848
Man, that's pretty innocuous.

Anthem
02-08-2013, 11:52 AM
You said you wonder what "the silent majority" thinks, well I'm about as silent on here as it comes.
Post more often! Help drown him out with quality basketball analysis.

Indra
02-08-2013, 11:59 AM
You should post more often. Indra is an amazing name.


Post more often! Help drown him out with quality basketball analysis.

Thank you guys, I appreciate the kind words. I don't get to see many games, so I mostly come here to read everyone else's analysis, but I do like the community here and find myself posting from time to time. I'll do my best to 1.) watch more games, and 2.) post more! :)

Hicks
02-08-2013, 12:22 PM
Thank you guys, I appreciate the kind words. I don't get to see many games, so I mostly come here to read everyone else's analysis, but I do like the community here and find myself posting from time to time. I'll do my best to 1.) watch more games, and 2.) post more! :)

Are you in Indiana?

Indra
02-08-2013, 12:34 PM
Are you in Indiana?

San Francisco. Cost of living is so absurd here that I can't afford league pass, but I watch all the live updates on my phone.

Hicks
02-08-2013, 12:40 PM
At this time of year, the smart phone version of league pass is down to $28:

http://www.nba.com/leaguepass/mobile/

Indra
02-08-2013, 12:55 PM
At this time of year, the smart phone version of league pass is down to $28:

http://www.nba.com/leaguepass/mobile/

Oh neat. Was actually marked down to $19.99. Even better. Thanks for the info, MAStamper!

beast23
02-08-2013, 01:26 PM
You said you wonder what "the silent majority" thinks, well I'm about as silent on here as it comes. I read just about every thread but rarely post, and I find vnzla81 to be so frustrating to read that I'll typically stop reading any thread he has multiple posts in. It's so tiresome and brings down my enjoyment of this board greatly. It's like you said, bickering for the sake of bickering. He trolls the board with controversial or hyperbolic statements and acts flabbergasted and hurt when people respond strongly. He's actually the finest troll I've ever seen on the internet. He pushes the envelope just far enough to upset everyone, but never breaks the rules. Mods can't (or won't) do anything about it even though it's obvious trolling and upsets a large portion of this community.

Just my thoughts. I find his personality on this forum to be unbearable.
You might not post much, but you are spot on.

One suggestion that I have is what I observed on a political forum a couple of years ago. Limit posts to five posts per day to threads that you haven't initiated. You could post as much as you wanted in threads that you did initiate. That resulted in folks ignoring threads started by a troublemaker and the troublemaker eventually "moderated his demeanor", bringing his posting back closer to an acceptable norm. Admins could promote members to higher levels, I.e. "ranks", which triggered an additional number of posts per day. Bad behavior reduced rank, therefore reducing the allowable number of posts, or resulted in suspensions.

I don't know if such capabilities are built into the software we use, but almost daily the thought has occurred to me that it sure would be nice.

vnzla81
02-08-2013, 02:05 PM
I love how people are tired of talking about me but all they do is talk about me, even if I don't post they are talking about me, one guy even has my name on his signature :rolleyes:


I have an advice for all of the people that are a** hurt because of me, stop overreacting and posting about me and probably you won't have more threads about me, it's just that simple, you can also use the ignore button nobody is stoping you for using it. :twocents:

Ace E.Anderson
02-08-2013, 02:32 PM
I'm just curious..are people annoyed by Vnzla because he disagrees with the common ideas that the majority agrees with; or is it because he's "snarky"?

Yes he is more pessimistic than most (all cept maybe OlBlu :cool:) but his ideas aren't THAT far fetched for it to be considered trolling imo.

I've disagreed with the guy on PLENTY of topics, and we've gone back and forth disputing one another's points, but I've never felt disrespected in the way that he presents his ideas to me--no matter how wrong I may think they are. Maybe I'm more thick skinned than others, or maybe I appreciate "the devil's advocate" feel that he brings. I'm not sure. But I don't think it's fair to jump on him simply because he's an a$$ who likes to argue

jk:-p

Lol no seriously though.

Yes his hyperbole and "snarkiness" could be seen as offensive; but when do posters realize that's simply his personality and the things he says, and the way he says them, are not meant to be taken personally. His personality trait is no different than Trader Joe's sarcasm, Since86's bluntness, Nuntius' optimism, or Mattie's drunken ranting lol (to name a few). They're personality traits, and your personality tends to come out with the more conversation/interaction you have with someone.

We are different individuals with different personalities. That's why this board is so good, because it's not all positive, nor all negative, it's simply a bunch of ppl with varying personalities who have nothing better to do than argue about the Pacers and the rest of the NBA. Let's not lose sight of that, and derail so many threads attacking a poster.

Just an outsider looking in.

beast23
02-08-2013, 02:34 PM
I love how people are tired of talking about me but all they do is talk about me, even if I don't post they are talking about me, one guy even has my name on his signature :rolleyes:


I have an advice for all of the people that are a** hurt because of me, stop overreacting and posting about me and probably you won't have more threads about me, it's just that simple, you can also use the ignore button nobody is stoping you for using it. :twocents:
Has it occurred to you that ignoring you is impossible because you dominate the board? I've tried, but it is not possible due to the number of people that quote you. I would almost welcome a removal of the quote feature; it might lead to some confusion but would certainly benefit the vast number of people that would like to put you on ignore but haven't.

I've often wondered how it might be possible for you to earn a living. You post significantly and at all hours of the day. At the very least, I would question your diligence in your employment.

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 02:36 PM
One day I hope my sarcasm can be a personality trait on the level of Mattie's drunken ranting. He's in the big leagues and we're all just trying to claw up the ladder.

Anyway, to the topic at hand, I've had more than my fair share of clashes with Vnzla, but to be completely honest I think the dude has been pretty damn positive. Hell, he was still holding on hope in November that Paul George would one day be a superstar and that's looking pretty good right now. In fact I even disagreed and said that while I was happy with where Paul was I thought that was probably all he was going to be....shows what I know.



HINT: It's EVERYTHING

Edit: Lol now we have people questioning his dedication to his employment, is that really any of your business? How long before we take him down to the river and see if he floats?

Sookie
02-08-2013, 02:38 PM
I think the annoyance comes from the constant negativity. And perhaps the debating style.

I also think the ability to hijack a thread has also become the most annoying part. But, I don't think that can be blamed completely on vnzla81.

Just, IMO. I don't have a problem here, other than I don't like entire threads dedicated to a certain point. I just disagree with vnzla81 a lot. (although I find I agree with him plenty too.) But I'd also say I'm more of optimistic anyway, so it's natural I'd disagree.

Trader Joe
02-08-2013, 02:41 PM
I think the annoyance comes from the constant negativity. And perhaps the debating style.

I also think the ability to hijack a thread has also become the most annoying part. But, I don't think that can be blamed completely on vnzla81.

Just, IMO. I don't have a problem here, other than I don't like entire threads dedicated to a certain point. I just disagree with vnzla81 a lot. But I'd also say I'm more of optimistic anyway, so it's natural I'd disagree.

We went through all of page 4 without a single post by Vnzla about Roy, his rebounding convo with OJ or anything at all, and yet people were still talking about him. So I don't really know what he's supposed to do in that case. He's certainly not the one that turned this thread into something about him or derailed it.

Since86
02-08-2013, 02:46 PM
We went through all of page 4 without a single post by Vnzla about Roy, his rebounding convo with OJ or anything at all, and yet people were still talking about him. So I don't really know what he's supposed to do in that case. He's certainly not the one that turned this thread into something about him or derailed it.

I think Vnzla knows exactly what kind of reactions his comments get, and that's what he's looking for. The person who started the blaze is responsible for it, even when they walk away.

I think people are so fed up it's hard to keep the reactions in check. I've gotten past this point, and now it's comical to watch him bring negativity to pretty much every thread he participates in.



Reminds me a lot of Sassan.

imawhat
02-08-2013, 02:49 PM
Man, that's pretty innocuous.

As a quote about rebound credit is wont to do*.


*unless you're Troy Murphy