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View Full Version : Pacers/Hawks Postgame Thread 2/5/13



Trophy
02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
Another W and 15 straight at home! :boombaby:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2hmegk2.png
(Courtesy of NBA.com)

Heisenberg
02-05-2013, 10:41 PM
Ian was like OOPS!

rock747
02-05-2013, 10:41 PM
The "D-League Ref" chant should be revisited at later dates when appropriate.

Anthem
02-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Undefeated in February, baby.

vnzla81
02-05-2013, 10:44 PM
Green can't even play in garbage time, 3 years left and counting.

festar35
02-05-2013, 10:45 PM
West may have not played great offensively, but check out those defensive numbers. Man I want to see these Pacers in person!!!

aamcguy
02-05-2013, 10:45 PM
I wonder what the deal with Gerald Green is

rock747
02-05-2013, 10:45 PM
Green can't even play in garbage time, 3 years left and counting.

Yikes

Heisenberg
02-05-2013, 10:45 PM
I wonder what the deal with Gerald Green is

maybe he has the "flu"

vnzla81
02-05-2013, 10:46 PM
I wonder what the deal with Gerald Green is

His ankle, they are waiting for him to get healthy(green)

PacersHomer
02-05-2013, 10:46 PM
Is Green even on the active roster?

daschysta
02-05-2013, 10:46 PM
8 free throws last night, 9 free throws tonight. This is the next step in Paul George's development as an offensive player. He gets to the line 5 or 6 times a night he could score 25 a night at some point.

TMJ31
02-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Man it feels good to beat the Hawks.

(I've been saying this about a lot of teams lately)

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-05-2013, 10:48 PM
Great offense tonight, hopefully our defense has been lackluster to save energy for this three night stretch

BobbyMac
02-05-2013, 10:49 PM
Good win tonite, Now lets win tomorrow!!!

Anthem
02-05-2013, 10:50 PM
Green can't even play in garbage time, 3 years left and counting.
I'd go the other way with it. If Green's not even getting PT in garbage time, then something else is going on.

cdash
02-05-2013, 10:51 PM
I wonder what the deal with Gerald Green is

I think it's a combination of him playing like ****, him losing some confidence, Vogel trying to send a message (much like he did with Augustin earlier this season), Orlando Johnson's improved play, and Sam Young's defense. He's going to have to work his way back into the rotation.

LetsTalkPacers84
02-05-2013, 10:52 PM
:happydanc
Id really like to be the only team to win back to back to back games this season.

rock747
02-05-2013, 10:53 PM
:happydanc
Id really like to be the only team to win back to back to back games this season.

It would be pretty impressive. A big screw you to the NBA for doing that to them.

cdash
02-05-2013, 10:54 PM
It would be pretty impressive. A big screw you to the NBA for doing that to them.

To be fair, they didn't have much of a choice. The snowed out game forced the Bulls game to be rescheduled, and I'm sure fitting that game into the schedule was difficult enough to do.

cgg
02-05-2013, 10:55 PM
http://f.cl.ly/items/1Y1N2V2P2I030x1d3V2L/Screen%20Shot%202013-02-05%20at%209.58.36%20PM.png

aamcguy
02-05-2013, 10:56 PM
To be fair, they didn't have much of a choice. The snowed out game forced the Bulls game to be rescheduled, and I'm sure fitting that game into the schedule was difficult enough to do.

I felt the same way, but I checked and there were multiple dates that worked out for both teams AND the Fieldhouse's schedule without forcing a b2b2b for one of the teams.

TMJ31
02-05-2013, 10:57 PM
http://f.cl.ly/items/1Y1N2V2P2I030x1d3V2L/Screen%20Shot%202013-02-05%20at%209.58.36%20PM.png

Goodness. I didn't realize it was THAT bad.

Wow.

cdash
02-05-2013, 10:59 PM
I felt the same way, but I checked and there were multiple dates that worked out for both teams AND the Fieldhouse's schedule without forcing a b2b2b for one of the teams.

Were they games when both teams were in the midwest with an easy flight to Indy? I highly doubt the NBA was trying to screw over the Pacers in any way, as much as we would like to think so.

Slick Pinkham
02-05-2013, 11:03 PM
28 assists on 36 made field goals!

aamcguy
02-05-2013, 11:05 PM
Were they games when both teams were in the midwest with an easy flight to Indy? I highly doubt the NBA was trying to screw over the Pacers in any way, as much as we would like to think so.

I can't say for sure the midwest because it's been a while, but the travel was reasonable or I didn't count it. There were a couple that caused a b2b for both teams, a couple that gave the pacers a b2b and single game for the bulls, and I think one that gave the bulls a b2b with a single game for the pacers.

I don't think they were trying to screw the pacers, I think they were just trying to add in a marketable opportunity for a low key team early in the schedule and wanted to make sure it came before they start showing more national tv games after the all star break.

picasso
02-05-2013, 11:05 PM
Paul started 1-7 finished 7-11 ohhh yeah..

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-05-2013, 11:08 PM
Only 3 games out of First. Were still in this, if we can get the #1 seed we are gonna be a crazy tough out

ColeTheMole
02-05-2013, 11:11 PM
I love this team.

able
02-05-2013, 11:11 PM
Paul started 1-7 finished 7-11 ohhh yeah..

I sincerely suggest you check your math, seeing as you're saying he went 6 - 4 after that

Mr.Hinds
02-05-2013, 11:11 PM
Hopefully if PG starts getting a few of his takes inside called he starts becoming even more comfortable doing it. I think a lot more of his takes will start finishing his rims, and he tends to start heating up from outside if he gets a few lay-ins/dunks.

aamcguy
02-05-2013, 11:12 PM
Only 3 games out of First. Were still in this, if we can get the #1 seed we are gonna be a crazy tough out

That's deceptive, though. Because we have 1 less win and 5 more losses than do the Heat. So we have some ground to make up. Would be amazing if we did though!

boombaby1987
02-05-2013, 11:14 PM
I sincerely suggest you check your math, seeing as you're saying he went 6 - 4 after that

Um....What does going 6-4 mean?

IUfan4life
02-05-2013, 11:15 PM
I sincerely suggest you check your math, seeing as you're saying he went 6 - 4 after that

Meaning he finished 8-18.

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-05-2013, 11:16 PM
True, but in the plus that means our schedule is somewhat less compact than theirs. Not much but it could be helpful. Either way, if Granger can come in and we get back our mojo on the road I think we can still catch them.

Mr.Hinds
02-05-2013, 11:19 PM
I sincerely suggest you check your math, seeing as you're saying he went 6 - 4 after that

It looks like [1-7] = (6), and [7-11] = (4). Or I could just being making weird random connections.

EDIT: Though obviously I realise he meant Paul's shot attempt splits in each half.

gummy
02-05-2013, 11:19 PM
I wonder what the deal with Gerald Green is

What I hope is happening is that the coaches are working with him intensively to get his shooting stroke online while trying to minimize his bad habits (like settling for too many 3's) and they aren't going re-insert him into the lineup until he seems to have turned a corner.

:pray:

TheDon
02-05-2013, 11:20 PM
in the last 3 games we have stomped all over the heat, bulls, and the hawks....talk about a statement...and exorcising some demons in the process with the hawks.

Ace E.Anderson
02-05-2013, 11:21 PM
Though I don't see us having the number one seed (the heat DON'T want to have to play here with us having home court), I certainly think the number 2 seed is easily within reach. But don't forget, we were just the 5 seed a few days ago. Seeds 2-6 are up for grabs at this point. We need all the W's we can get

TheDon
02-05-2013, 11:26 PM
I'd like the number 1 seed but I wouldn't beat myself up over the 2 seed, although I really don't like the thought of doing some of the heavy lifting for the heat. I'd like to see us get the #1 seed and then let the heat and the knicks face each other in the round before the Eastern Conference Finals.

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-05-2013, 11:26 PM
Though I don't see us having the number one seed (the heat DON'T want to have to play here with us having home court), I certainly think the number 2 seed is easily within reach. But don't forget, we were just the 5 seed a few days ago. Seeds 2-6 are up for grabs at this point. We need all the W's we can get

I agree, #2 seed is more likely. But we have the ability to go on a run and snag that #1.

xIndyFan
02-05-2013, 11:28 PM
What was the technical on DJA for? I got the F1 on Horford, but didn't see what DJA did.

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-05-2013, 11:28 PM
I'd like the number 1 seed but I wouldn't beat myself up over the 2 seed, although I really don't like the thought of doing some of the heavy lifting for the heat. I'd like to see us get the #1 seed and then let the heat and the knicks face each other in the round before the Eastern Conference Finals.

Well the Bulls could very well get the 4th. And they could be just as hard if not harder than the Knicks

Magic P
02-05-2013, 11:30 PM
@Hoya2aPacer: Just played a game with food poisoning. Got sum bad food from a restaurant last night. Y'all wanna guess who?

TheDon
02-05-2013, 11:30 PM
Well the Bulls could very well get the 4th. And they could be just as hard if not harder than the Knicks

very true, especially with rose coming back at some point.

Pacer Fan
02-05-2013, 11:32 PM
What was the technical on DJA for? I got the F1 on Horford, but didn't see what DJA did.

He elbowed Al in the private.

xIndyFan
02-05-2013, 11:33 PM
He elbowed Al in the private.

Thanx, that would be a foul.

MiaDragon
02-05-2013, 11:51 PM
@Hoya2aPacer: Just played a game with food poisoning. Got sum bad food from a restaurant last night. Y'all wanna guess who?

Id rather take guesses as to where his offensive game went to be honest.

Gold
02-05-2013, 11:54 PM
Id rather take guesses as to where his offensive game went to be honest.

He was good this game though.

BlueCollarColts
02-05-2013, 11:57 PM
Id rather take guesses as to where his offensive game went to be honest.
6-8 12 points, he had a good game tonight

BornReady
02-05-2013, 11:59 PM
I'm thinking we should keep our starting unit in tact. Its really producing!

Anthem
02-06-2013, 12:12 AM
@Hoya2aPacer: Just played a game with food poisoning. Got sum bad food from a restaurant last night. Y'all wanna guess who?
He should get food poisoning more often!

xIndyFan
02-06-2013, 12:16 AM
Every game like this when Roy shoots well, I keep hoping this is the one that turns it all around.

graphic-er
02-06-2013, 12:24 AM
Great win, but we gotta get overall Defense back up to a high level. Giving up way to many points lately. Several games now in the past 2 weeks giving up around 100. Gotta keep it below 90.

DGPR
02-06-2013, 12:36 AM
This was a great win tonight to beat the Hawks who have been haunting us for years now. It sure would be nice to win out on the back-to-back-to-back, but I can totally see us coming out flat and dragging *** tomorrow night.

boombaby1987
02-06-2013, 12:48 AM
We just got a 2 minute segment on Sportscenter. Am I dreaming?

daschysta
02-06-2013, 12:51 AM
I'm getting greedy, I think we can beat Philly tomorrow, they really aren't very great. Mostly though I see how big tomorrow could be. If we win tomorrow some of the lower class East teams could do us some huge favors. If the Improved Wizards can catch the Knicks sleeping we're only 1.5 games out of 2nd in the East, and Brooklyn, who has come back to earth could give us a 2.5 game cushion by losing in the Palace.

If we win tomorrow I think we could turn it in to a 8 game winning streak with very winnable games vs. Toronto, and Charlotte plus Brooklyn coming at home leading up to a tough game vs. New York who matches up well with us.

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2013, 12:55 AM
I'd go the other way with it. If Green's not even getting PT in garbage time, then something else is going on.
When someone who might know slips in a word like "punishment", I really worry.

I also was uptight about the "flying him back to Indy with flu" during the Portland trip.


Ian for the 2nd night played some pretty rough defense, and on the whole the Pacers ended up in a drastically different game than they are used to. 90 points with 10.5 to go last night, 90 with 8 to go tonight, but they are also failing to hold teams to the 38% and 75-85 points too.


Guys were tired. Lance started to not get back up court at all once late in the game till he probably realized that wouldn't be acceptable. But that's a long night flying into Philly.



Paul shot the 3 and made some damn fine AS type plays, and yet David West might have had the bigger impact. He was a defensive destroyer out there.


Lance has dialed it in. This isn't Lance from NOV even, this is a whole new thing that's not based on shooting or breaking guys down, but a lot of smart, attacking plays with confidence. Yes he's still got the And 1 going, but he's applying it much better and has at times stopped himself from some more foolish plays. Plus that rundown block he made was just PG24 Jr-esque. His only real problem right now is a tendency to get way too aggressive on defense and chase plays that get him in bad spots.


I can't wait till Granger returns and eases the minutes on the other 5 "core" (ie, the current starters). Sam is a little out of synch and might take a few weeks to get back in the groove with the team. But the key is that West and Lance have both kicked their slump from 3-4 weeks ago which now seems like forever. You've got 4 guys really dialed into the offense, and Roy sputtering to life with consistent 8-12 point contributions.

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2013, 01:00 AM
I'm getting greedy, I think we can beat Philly tomorrow, they really aren't very great. Mostly though I see how big tomorrow could be. If we win tomorrow some of the lower class East teams could do us some huge favors. If the Improved Wizards can catch the Knicks sleeping we're only 1.5 games out of 2nd in the East, and Brooklyn, who has come back to earth could give us a 2.5 game cushion by losing in the Palace.

If we win tomorrow I think we could turn it in to a 8 game winning streak with very winnable games vs. Toronto, and Charlotte plus Brooklyn coming at home leading up to a tough game vs. New York who matches up well with us.
I've been saying the whole time that while 3 in 3 or 4 in 5 is a tough stretch, it happens to lay out well for them with all 3 teams missing key players. We just faced CHI without Rose/Noah and ATL without L Williams/D Harris/Zaza, and tomorrow you have T Young out for Philly and still no Bynum. That's 3 teams that don't have their centers and are missing a key scorer. Zaza put 14 boards on the Pacers in the first 2 games and Lou lit them up last time. Stuff like that goes a long way to easing this stretch.

And as I've been saying for awhile now, this month is just a bounty of home games for a team in the midst of a massive home winning streak - the perfect storm for a big run in the standings. I've been thinking of this week as a fairly likely 4-0 week despite the adverse timing of the schedule.

Naptown_Seth
02-06-2013, 01:04 AM
I'm thinking we should keep our starting unit in tact. Its really producing!
I'm just the opposite, I can't wait to get Lance off the bench where he won't have to spend the first 5 minutes deferring to the starters and waiting for things to shake out. Off the bench he'll have 1-2 other starters still with him most of the time so it won't be much different, but he'll spend the entire time being one of the focal points for creating offense. That should also help give Hill some more breathers.

daschysta
02-06-2013, 01:11 AM
I've been saying the whole time that while 3 in 3 or 4 in 5 is a tough stretch, it happens to lay out well for them with all 3 teams missing key players. We just faced CHI without Rose/Noah and ATL without L Williams/D Harris/Zaza, and tomorrow you have T Young out for Philly and still no Bynum. That's 3 teams that don't have their centers and are missing a key scorer. Zaza put 14 boards on the Pacers in the first 2 games and Lou lit them up last time. Stuff like that goes a long way to easing this stretch.

And as I've been saying for awhile now, this month is just a bounty of home games for a team in the midst of a massive home winning streak - the perfect storm for a big run in the standings. I've been thinking of this week as a fairly likely 4-0 week despite the adverse timing of the schedule.

Yeah, it's fortunate for us, but I don't feel bad whatsoever since we haven't had Granger for a single minute all year long.

I agree with you about Lance, he needs to be the focal point when he's on the floor, but you can't justify that with George, West and soon Granger in the starting lineup. I think he'll thrive being able to do whatever he wants as the primary playmaker and scoring threat (along with Tyler) off of the bench. He'll come on to the floor and immediately be option 1 or 2a instead of option 4a or 4 b along with Hibbert behind George, West, and Hill.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 01:16 AM
Pacers just got some love on ESPN, they said that "some are comparing Paul George to Tmac but with better D".

pizza guy
02-06-2013, 01:32 AM
Thought this game would be tougher. Not that Atlanta didn't give us any trouble, but all things considered, we won this pretty easily. I really thought everyone played well. All five starters were solid, Hans was a very important piece tonight, DJ, Ian, and Sam were all productive. Great team win.

We got one more tomorrow to test our conditioning.

Also, Paul George is the man. Funny that we've asked for years who could be Robin to Danny's Batman, and now with DWest and PG24, we're forced to ask ourselves if Danny is anything more than Alfred. Can't wait to get him on the court and find out.

The M.V.P.! chant for Paul was awesome.

aamcguy
02-06-2013, 01:35 AM
Thought this game would be tougher. Not that Atlanta didn't give us any trouble, but all things considered, we won this pretty easily. I really thought everyone played well. All five starters were solid, Hans was a very important piece tonight, DJ, Ian, and Sam were all productive. Great team win.

We got one more tomorrow to test our conditioning.

Also, Paul George is the man. Funny that we've asked for years who could be Robin to Danny's Batman, and now with DWest and PG24, we're forced to ask ourselves if Danny is anything more than Alfred. Can't wait to get him on the court and find out.

The M.V.P.! chant for Paul was awesome.

MVPG?

ilive4sports
02-06-2013, 01:43 AM
I'm just the opposite, I can't wait to get Lance off the bench where he won't have to spend the first 5 minutes deferring to the starters and waiting for things to shake out. Off the bench he'll have 1-2 other starters still with him most of the time so it won't be much different, but he'll spend the entire time being one of the focal points for creating offense. That should also help give Hill some more breathers.
I completely agree. Lance is best when he has the ball. Whether is be for his own scoring or creating for others. Its exactly what the bench needs. Danny is much more effective than Lance without the ball. A big part of that is that he's a much better shooter. With the way this team is built, having such a good scorer who doesn't need the ball in his hands to be very effective in Danny will be great for the starters imo. Danny will feed off of West and Hibbert in the post as well as a driving PG. I see Danny coming off a lot of screens now. I think we will use him much like Reggie was used.

ilive4sports
02-06-2013, 01:43 AM
Pacers just got some love on ESPN, they said that "some are comparing Paul George to Tmac but with better D".
I saw Chris Mannix say that on twitter the other night. I've been saying it since he was a rookie. He has that silkiness to his game.

Day-V
02-06-2013, 01:51 AM
I saw Chris Mannix say that on twitter the other night. I've been saying it since he was a rookie. He has that silkiness to his game.

Chris Mannix talks Pacers on the Grady & Big Joe Show, Wednesday Morning at 11:05a ET. http://bit.ly/fanlisten ;)

ilive4sports
02-06-2013, 01:57 AM
Chris Mannix talks Pacers on the Grady & Big Joe Show, Wednesday Morning at 11:05a ET. http://bit.ly/fanlisten ;)
well i'll be working, will they put it up on the site after? i'd love to listen. Mannix knows his stuff, he's my favorite fill in on the Dan Patrick show. He's also been giving the Pacers props longer than anyone.

Bball
02-06-2013, 01:59 AM
Quote Originally Posted by picasso View Post
Paul started 1-7 finished 7-11 ohhh yeah..

I believe picasso is saying Paul George started the game only 1 of 7. But AFTER that point he went a sizzling 7 of 11 to finish the game. Making him 8-18 for the entire game. So the math is fine. Able just read it wrong.

Day-V
02-06-2013, 02:00 AM
well i'll be working, will they put it up on the site after? i'd love to listen. Mannix knows his stuff, he's my favorite fill in on the Dan Patrick show. He's also been giving the Pacers props longer than anyone.


Yeah, I try to put the podcast up by 2:00 PM each day. Mannix is one of our favorite guests.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 02:01 AM
@Paul_George24: Yeaaaa the TMac comparisons is coo but it's too early for that.. Lemme be ME! The best way I can!

Well said, even though I would like for him to be as good as Tmac :)

imawhat
02-06-2013, 02:06 AM
I'd argue he's already better than T-Mac and his hollow stats ever were.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 02:08 AM
Great win, but we gotta get overall Defense back up to a high level. Giving up way to many points lately. Several games now in the past 2 weeks giving up around 100. Gotta keep it below 90.

I agree, though this is part of the typical ebb and flow of every season.

Teams start figuring out their own offenses and shake off all the bad habits picked up during the offseason by January.

Day-V
02-06-2013, 02:12 AM
I think the defense will pick back up after the All-Star Break. Guys are just tired right now. Between that Western Road Trip and this Back-to back-to back, I don't blame them for being tired.

Lord Helmet
02-06-2013, 02:13 AM
I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're gonna make the Playoffs, we're gonna take round 1 of the playoffs, then we're gonna take round 2 and 3, then win the Finals and TAKE BACK THE O'BRIEN TROPHY......BWYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

RLeWorm
02-06-2013, 02:13 AM
I'd argue he's already better than T-Mac and his hollow stats ever were.

His D is way better than T-Mac but T-Mac was elite and he would straight kill teams. Its crazy to see how far Paul George has come though. 1st all-star game came earlier than i thought

Day-V
02-06-2013, 02:16 AM
I LOVE THIS TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're gonna make the Playoffs, we're gonna take round 1 of the playoffs, then we're gonna take round 2 and 3, then win the Finals and TAKE BACK THE O'BRIEN TROPHY......BWYAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md5jnbwmc91qbxmf5.gif

Lord Helmet
02-06-2013, 02:17 AM
I'm so happy you got my joke. :laugh:

I was thinking of the Chappelle version, too :)

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 02:23 AM
Green can't even play in garbage time, 3 years left and counting.

I guarantee you that pretty much every phone call inquiring about Danny is being met with the same question, will you take Green on as well

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 02:28 AM
If we beat Philly tomorrow it's going to be very hard for me to keep my expectations in check.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 02:30 AM
DJ's Mortal Kombat finishing move?

In-the-Air-Flying-Elbow-to-the-Groin

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 02:30 AM
I guarantee you that pretty much every phone call inquiring about Danny is being met with the same question, will you take Green on as well

I'm pretty sure they are doing the same thing with anybody, even for Plumlee.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 02:31 AM
Green can't even play in garbage time, 3 years left and counting.
Am I the only one that thinks that he has an unreported injury that he's simply recovering from?

Eddie Gill
02-06-2013, 02:33 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that he has an unreported injury that he's simply recovering from?

I heard he's in the witness protection program.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 02:34 AM
I felt the same way, but I checked and there were multiple dates that worked out for both teams AND the Fieldhouse's schedule without forcing a b2b2b for one of the teams.
I know that it's hard to play a b2b2b set of games.....but am I the only one that is stoked that I get to watch a Pacer game 3 nights in a row and 4 games in 5 nights?

Sure, they will be tired as hell....but watching that many Pacer games in so many nights is great for fans like me.

Lord Helmet
02-06-2013, 02:37 AM
DJ's Mortal Kombat finishing move?

In-the-Air-Flying-Elbow-to-the-Groin
FATALITY and FREE THROWS

CableKC
02-06-2013, 02:48 AM
Lance has dialed it in. This isn't Lance from NOV even, this is a whole new thing that's not based on shooting or breaking guys down, but a lot of smart, attacking plays with confidence. Yes he's still got the And 1 going, but he's applying it much better and has at times stopped himself from some more foolish plays. Plus that rundown block he made was just PG24 Jr-esque. His only real problem right now is a tendency to get way too aggressive on defense and chase plays that get him in bad spots.
Someone is going to have to tell me.....is Lance not good at getting around screens?

or

Is the opposing Team just setting really good screens that is simply hard to get around?

The reason I ask is this is the 2nd game where Lance just had problems getting around screens and the guy he's guarding.....Bellineli yesterday and Marquis/Pargo tonight...is able to get open and score.

ilive4sports
02-06-2013, 02:52 AM
Someone is going to have to tell me.....is Lance not good at getting around screens?

or

Is the opposing Team just setting really good screens that is simply hard to get around?

The reason I ask is this is the 2nd game where Lance just had problems getting around screens and the guy he's guarding.....Bellineli yesterday and Marquis/Pargo tonight...is able to get open and score.
a bit of both most likely. Chicago was setting double screens for Bellineli yesterday, was really difficult for Lance to keep up. Would have liked to seen him get more help last night honestly.

And it seems since the shooting gods blessed Bellineli yesterday they denied Korver tonight.

presto123
02-06-2013, 02:53 AM
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to come out of the East this year but to beat the West champ will be downright difficult.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 03:07 AM
With this win....the Pacers have the best winning record at home in the East.

TheDon
02-06-2013, 03:12 AM
Sure would be nice to get back to the finals I don't care what weird random situation has to come about to make it happen or even if it comes at the expense of some freak occurence, to win it all though would make every heartbreaking moment suffered by pacers fans through the years all worth it for me and I can think of quite a few right off the top of my head and it would be something I'd love to see at least once in my lifetime.

TheDon
02-06-2013, 03:38 AM
What was the technical on DJA for? I got the F1 on Horford, but didn't see what DJA did.

it was a loose ball foul :rimshot:

mattie
02-06-2013, 03:56 AM
We need Danny as soon as possible so we can create some space. I hate how ridiculously close the race for the 3rd seed is.

McKeyFan
02-06-2013, 08:23 AM
I know that it's hard to play a b2b2b set of games.....but am I the only one that is stoked that I get to watch a Pacer game 3 nights in a row and 4 games in 5 nights?

Sure, they will be tired as hell....but watching that many Pacer games in so many nights is great for fans like me.

I thought last year's lock out season was also fun. Games every other night if not every night.

McKeyFan
02-06-2013, 08:25 AM
When someone who might know slips in a word like "punishment", I really worry.

The first time I heard anything about that was one of your posts. Did you get it from someone else?

owl
02-06-2013, 09:10 AM
@Paul_George24: Yeaaaa the TMac comparisons is coo but it's too early for that.. Lemme be ME! The best way I can!

Well said, even though I would like for him to be as good as Tmac :)

That is great that you want him to be as good as Tmac but I want him to be Paul
George and something unique to the league and frankly to be better than Tmac.
I want him to be so good that players in the future are compared to him in order to be great.
I think he is a unique combination of offense and defense.

dohman
02-06-2013, 09:19 AM
Lances ego is growing game by game. I am not sure if Danny will be the better player by the start of next season. I hate to say that but Lance is looking really good and its not just because he is the flavor of the month. His shooting is up, his three ball looks great, he takes it to the hole with authority, the passes he makes are freakin amazing, he gives his all on defense, and he will stand and yell a inch from you face when he dunks on you! The kid is looking good. extend him on the cheap while you can.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 09:26 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that he has an unreported injury that he's simply recovering from?
Me too.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 09:29 AM
Guys were tired. Lance started to not get back up court at all once late in the game till he probably realized that wouldn't be acceptable. But that's a long night flying into Philly.
The good news is that guys were able to get light minutes tonight. Roy and Stephenson with 30, Hill and West with 35, PG with 39. Yeah, 39 is a lot, but he's played plenty of games in the 40s. Hopefully the starters won't have to play too many minutes tonight, and we'll make it through.


Lance has dialed it in. This isn't Lance from NOV even, this is a whole new thing that's not based on shooting or breaking guys down, but a lot of smart, attacking plays with confidence. Yes he's still got the And 1 going, but he's applying it much better and has at times stopped himself from some more foolish plays. Plus that rundown block he made was just PG24 Jr-esque. His only real problem right now is a tendency to get way too aggressive on defense and chase plays that get him in bad spots.
But even that is classic youthful energy. You saw PG do that sometimes last year. He'll figure it out with more playing time. I'm extremely optimistic.


You've got 4 guys really dialed into the offense, and Roy sputtering to life with consistent 8-12 point contributions.
Yeah, but even "sputtering to life" isn't really right. I'll take this kind of game out of Roy every night with no complaints. Only 12 points, but the big man went 6-for-8 and had 4 assists. He was a major force out there, and impacted of his offensive game isn't really felt by the stats.

In other news, I like the decision to "stagger" the PT of West and Roy. Make sure one of them is out there at all times, and it lets Roy get some time as the focal point.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 09:48 AM
Someone is going to have to tell me.....is Lance not good at getting around screens?

or

Is the opposing Team just setting really good screens that is simply hard to get around?

The reason I ask is this is the 2nd game where Lance just had problems getting around screens and the guy he's guarding.....Bellineli yesterday and Marquis/Pargo tonight...is able to get open and score.
Some of both.

Remember last year, when PG had turned the corner as a defender and was really taking it to guys? He still had a lot of trouble on screens. That seems to be one of the last things players really learn defensively. Lance seems to be going through the same trajectory.

In addition, both teams did a great job of setting picks, and the shooters did a great job of hitting shots at an above-average rate. Bellineli's gotten those looks before, but if he hit them every night he'd be an All-Star.

Sollozzo
02-06-2013, 09:53 AM
Was it Mark Boyle who a couple years ago said that Lance was absolutely incredible in practice? I remember a quote somewhere along those lines from someone high up. This was long before Lance started seeing playing time. It's easy to see why Bird was willing to take a chance him. As I said last weekend, the Legend is getting the last laugh on a lot of things right now. I hope he's been watching in Florida or wherever he is. I'll bet he is.

It's really incredible. A year ago Lance could barely get any clock. Now he is a huge part of our recent success. It's scary to think how good this guy could be in his mid 20's. It makes me giddy to think that him and PG are the exact same age. I hope we have both of them for a long long time. Both of them have perfect NBA bodies and are super physical.

Coopdog23
02-06-2013, 09:56 AM
Loved both teams' uniforms last night.

Kemo
02-06-2013, 09:58 AM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s480x480/557822_10151428735212996_1480129811_n.jpg

VideoVandal
02-06-2013, 10:32 AM
How bout Paul George's D on Korver last night too, he has always been amazing at on ball D but has struggled in past of guarding guys like Korver that are scoring off the ball and coming off screens, but tonight he hardly ever gave Korver an open look all of Korver's open looks happened when the 2nd unit was in during a first half stretch other than that we were all over him. Damn feels good to keep that guy in check sick and tired of all the nightmares I've had to watch him give us in the past.

Unclebuck
02-06-2013, 10:36 AM
Was it Mark Boyle who a couple years ago said that Lance was absolutely incredible in practice? I remember a quote somewhere along those lines from someone high up. This was long before Lance started seeing playing time. It's easy to see why Bird was willing to take a chance him. As I said last weekend, the Legend is getting the last laugh on a lot of things right now. I hope he's been watching in Florida or wherever he is. I'll bet he is.

It's really incredible. A year ago Lance could barely get any clock. Now he is a huge part of our recent success. It's scary to think how good this guy could be in his mid 20's. It makes me giddy to think that him and PG are the exact same age. I hope we have both of them for a long long time. Both of them have perfect NBA bodies and are super physical.

Mark said something like Lance is the best player on the team

RWB
02-06-2013, 10:50 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that he has an unreported injury that he's simply recovering from?

Or maybe the Pacers want to make sure Green doesn't get an injury before the trade deadline.

McKeyFan
02-06-2013, 10:55 AM
Was it Mark Boyle who a couple years ago said that Lance was absolutely incredible in practice? I remember a quote somewhere along those lines from someone high up. This was long before Lance started seeing playing time. It's easy to see why Bird was willing to take a chance him. As I said last weekend, the Legend is getting the last laugh on a lot of things right now. I hope he's been watching in Florida or wherever he is. I'll bet he is.

It's really incredible. A year ago Lance could barely get any clock. Now he is a huge part of our recent success. It's scary to think how good this guy could be in his mid 20's. It makes me giddy to think that him and PG are the exact same age. I hope we have both of them for a long long time. Both of them have perfect NBA bodies and are super physical.
Arguably the worst wing tandem in the league.






:zip:

Hicks
02-06-2013, 11:51 AM
We just got a 2 minute segment on Sportscenter. Am I dreaming?

Maybe you have food poisoning?

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 11:53 AM
Honestly, I found it really bizarre that Roy even brought up the food poisoning after he had one of his best games of the year arguably in terms of efficiency. Especially after Vogel played him the whole 1st quarter.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 11:59 AM
Anyone know what Lance's PER is over the last 5 games? He's averaging 15, 6, and 4 in 35 MPG while shooting 57% and having a A/TO of 2.625/1. I would imagine his PER has to be really good.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:02 PM
I'm just the opposite, I can't wait to get Lance off the bench where he won't have to spend the first 5 minutes deferring to the starters and waiting for things to shake out.....

I'm the opposite and I'm nervous about him coming off the bench. There are some players that play much, much better as starters. Lance played well out of the gate as a starter, even in the one game he started last season. But as a bench player he's been inconsistent.

I hope he continues his play, but I'm not sure he will.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:05 PM
Honestly, I found it really bizarre that Roy even brought up the food poisoning after he had one of his best games of the year arguably in terms of efficiency.

For a guy who's looked out of shape all season, he shouldn't imply that he's been eating fast food.

Since86
02-06-2013, 12:08 PM
But as a bench player he's been inconsistent.

Based off of the first 6 games of the season? Yeah, you're technically right, but it's not like the switch was turned when he entered the starting lineup.

We haven't seen this Lance come off of the bench. There's nothing I've seen that makes me think Lance can't come off the bench. He stands around and watches while other Pacers get going, and then he asserts himself. I think that translates easily to a bench type player.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:09 PM
For a guy who's looked out of shape all season, he shouldn't imply that he's been eating fast food.

I know where Roy usually enjoys his post-game meal. It's not fast food, but I'm also surprised that he would call them out like that seeing as he has an appetizer named after him on their menu. Of course perhaps he changed it up after the Bulls game, I don't know I wasn't at his usual post game haunt after the game on that evening.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:11 PM
Based off of the first 6 games of the season? Yeah, you're technically right, but it's not like the switch was turned when he entered the starting lineup.

We haven't seen this Lance come off of the bench.

Right. Off the bench Lance would have the green light for probably 20 minutes a game to be ball dominant and create for himself and others in half court sets. And if one of Paul or Danny and West or Hibbert is always out there with him he should have plenty to work with. Vogel will definitely have to tighten the belt on the rotation even more than he already has. Especially on the wing. I would give all 96 minutes on the wing to Paul, Danny, and Lance once Danny can handle his share of that load. No offense to OJ, I think he has developed nicely, but if Danny comes back ready to score 15 PPG the ceiling for this team is about to get sky high.

billbradley
02-06-2013, 12:11 PM
Didn't no where to put this.

But Mannix is on 1070. Says Pacers believe Roy's struggles are coming from Danny's absence because he spaces the floor and also makes it difficult to bog down on Hibby defensibly.

Also think Danny will need to be dealt next year, but for this year he really diversifies the Pacers. Danny playing the 4 with West at the 5 sometimes is a whole new squad, that other teams haven't seen.

RLeWorm
02-06-2013, 12:11 PM
Honestly, i still think its weird how fast PG and Lance have grown. We always talked about PG becoming our star and that stuff, never thought his first all-star appearance would come this early! And Lance, damn couldn't even get any playing time and now he is one of the biggest producers on this team. I always thought Lance could be this good though.

BRushWithDeath
02-06-2013, 12:14 PM
Didn't no where to put this.

But Mannix is on 1070. Says Pacers believe Roy's struggles are coming from Danny's absence because he spaces the floor and also makes it difficult to bog down on Hibby defensibly.

Also think Danny will need to be dealt next year, but for this year he really diversifies the Pacers. Danny playing the 4 with West at the 5 sometimes is a whole new squad, that other teams haven't seen.

God I hope the Pacers don't really believe that.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:15 PM
Didn't no where to put this.

But Mannix is on 1070. Says Pacers believe Roy's struggles are coming from Danny's absence because he spaces the floor and also makes it difficult to bog down on Hibby defensibly.

Also think Danny will need to be dealt next year, but for this year he really diversifies the Pacers. Danny playing the 4 with West at the 5 sometimes is a whole new squad, that other teams haven't seen.

Having Danny will help, but he's mainly missing hooks and bunnies; shots he hit last season. We've done a better job with entry passes this season and he's still getting good looks.

billbradley
02-06-2013, 12:17 PM
Having Danny will help, but he's mainly missing hooks and bunnies; shots he hit last season. We've done a better job with entry passes this season and he's still getting good looks.

I get what you're saying. But it's easier to hit hooks and bunnies when there isn't as much pressure on/around your body.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:20 PM
I know where Roy usually enjoys his post-game meal. It's not fast food, but I'm also surprised that he would call them out like that seeing as he has an appetizer named after him on their menu.

Hah, I immediately thought of Fridays, Applebees and the Cheesecake Factory when I read this.

Hicks
02-06-2013, 12:22 PM
Just wanted to take the occasion of one of his better nights to add that it's a damn shame some people think David West is a bad defensive player. He's really quite good. Talks on defense, good hands, smart/knows where to be within the team D schemes/rotations, strong on the block, long, and sometimes gets some blocks, too. But because he's low to the ground and doesn't swat shots like JO did from the help/weak side, and because he can struggle with his lateral movement, he often gets really under-sold IMO.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:23 PM
Hah, I immediately thought of Fridays, Applebees and the Cheesecake Factory when I read this.

Eatin' good in the neighborhood.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:23 PM
David West is markedly improved this season on defense. He was very good last night; even disruptive!

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 12:25 PM
God I hope the Pacers don't really believe that.

Yeah I don't get that either, he is acting like Lance is an scrub on offense or something.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:26 PM
I think the Pacers are just trying to give Roy's offense as many excuses as possible at this point.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:27 PM
David West is markedly improved this season on defense. He was very good last night; even disruptive!

He was like this in New Orleans too if you really go back and watch. Everyone needs to remember that the dude was recovering from an ACL tear last year.

imawhat
02-06-2013, 12:32 PM
Yeah I don't get that either, he is acting like Lance is an scrub on offense or something.

Lance isn't a scrub, but there's a huge difference between being a good shooter and being a threat. Opposing teams left Troy Murphy open all the time, but rarely did you see a team not chase Reggie Miller all over the court.

Danny is a much bigger shooting threat than Lance, and there's no doubt it will open up the floor and improve our offense. Roy will still need to hit the bunnies he'll get, but that's all on him IMO.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 12:36 PM
I don't know but it looks to me like Lance "stretch the floor" just fine, I guess I don't buy what Mannix is selling, Roy's struggles has nothing to do with floor spacing or anything like that, I mean, freaking Carlos Boozer was guarding him two days ago and he couldn't do s***.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't know but it looks to me like Lance "stretch the floor" just fine, I guess I don't buy what Mannix is selling, Roy's struggles has nothing to do with floor spacing or anything like that, I mean, freaking Carlos Boozer was guarding him two days ago and he couldn't do s***.

I disagree with what Mannix is saying too, but Danny's shooting definitely gets more respect than Lance's for the time being. Now that is not saying Lance is a bad shooter, it's just saying that Danny's history is much more proven.

That being said, I don't think Danny's return is going to magically make Roy shoot 50% from the field. If Roy hit all the open layups he's missed this year, he'd probably be at least 48% and Danny isn't going to shoot those layups for him.

Eleazar
02-06-2013, 12:41 PM
Just wanted to take the occasion of one of his better nights to add that it's a damn shame some people think David West is a bad defensive player. He's really quite good. Talks on defense, good hands, smart/knows where to be within the team D schemes/rotations, strong on the block, long, and sometimes gets some blocks, too. But because he's low to the ground and doesn't swat shots like JO did from the help/weak side, and because he can struggle with his lateral movement, he often gets really under-sold IMO.

Last year, and at the beginning of this year he wasn't a good defender. Once Paul emerged, and he started to have a bad offensive streak he really stepped up his defense a lot.


Also with Roy, he is improving. He isn't shooting the .500 we want yet, but if he current trend continues he should be consistently shooting around 50% by March. His shooting % form month to month are .378, .407, and .463. So there is a good trend. His season average is still extremely low, but his season average doesn't accurately reflect how he is playing right now.

PacersPride
02-06-2013, 12:46 PM
God I hope the Pacers don't really believe that.

agreed. Granger not being available has nothing to do with Roy basically throwing up garbage and hoping it goes in. I dont know why Hibbert does not learn to POWER DRIBBLE. he ever gets that down and gains his balance maybe he can then advance to POWER DUNKING.

This wrist or Danny excuse is just not accpetable imo. Roy has a long ways to go in terms of Baskeball IQ. Last night he did play well. However, the game vs the Bulls with no Noah reallly set me off.

LG33
02-06-2013, 12:46 PM
Honestly, I found it really bizarre that Roy even brought up the food poisoning after he had one of his best games of the year arguably in terms of efficiency. Especially after Vogel played him the whole 1st quarter.

Probably wanted to explain away why he was - as far as I could tell - asking to be taken out halfway through the first.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 12:49 PM
Honestly, I guess I can buy the Granger excuse in the sense that Roy may just be so wrapped up in his own head that just seeing Danny out there may change his ability whether it actually has any impact on Roy's shot quality or not.

Roy is not getting bad looks, he is just not hitting.

Roy could also benefit from Wooden's old saying of "Be quick, but don't hurry". Roy hurries all the time on offense.

Cousy47
02-06-2013, 12:53 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that he has an unreported injury that he's simply recovering from?
It's very possible that he has a serious ankle injury and the Pacers aren't telling. The reporters that "cover" our team will probably be the last writers on Earth to find out. It's taken the local press over 7 years to find out Granger had knee problems in his career. Reggie played with bone spurs for how many years before it was reported? It's a Hoosier thing, we don't talk about bad news.

Since86
02-06-2013, 01:06 PM
agreed. Granger not being available has nothing to do with Roy basically throwing up garbage and hoping it goes in. I dont know why Hibbert does not learn to POWER DRIBBLE. he ever gets that down and gains his balance maybe he can then advance to POWER DUNKING.

This wrist or Danny excuse is just not accpetable imo. Roy has a long ways to go in terms of Baskeball IQ. Last night he did play well. However, the game vs the Bulls with no Noah reallly set me off.

Big men are taught not to dribble. Dribbling, even a power dribble, allows guards to dig the ball out much easier. Keep the ball high.

IHMO, Roy needs to seek out contact. Not to get a foul call, but inititating contact allows players to stay balanced easier. Roy just needs to get stronger with the ball.

Cousy47
02-06-2013, 01:12 PM
Honestly, I found it really bizarre that Roy even brought up the food poisoning after he had one of his best games of the year arguably in terms of efficiency. Especially after Vogel played him the whole 1st quarter.
Maybe Frank should give him food poisoning before every game? His best outing overall of the season.

Cousy47
02-06-2013, 01:22 PM
Didn't no where to put this.

But Mannix is on 1070. Says Pacers believe Roy's struggles are coming from Danny's absence because he spaces the floor and also makes it difficult to bog down on Hibby defensibly.

Also think Danny will need to be dealt next year, but for this year he really diversifies the Pacers. Danny playing the 4 with West at the 5 sometimes is a whole new squad, that other teams haven't seen.
Well that proves to me that this Mannix cat is really smart. I've been saying for weeks that Danny should become our 6th man and ply both 3 and 4 when he comes back. Great minds and all that. The biggest difference between us is I think DG, PG and IM are the set the rest of the league have not seen as well as DW having to play the 5.

PaceBalls
02-06-2013, 01:29 PM
Just wanted to take the occasion of one of his better nights to add that it's a damn shame some people think David West is a bad defensive player. He's really quite good. Talks on defense, good hands, smart/knows where to be within the team D schemes/rotations, strong on the block, long, and sometimes gets some blocks, too. But because he's low to the ground and doesn't swat shots like JO did from the help/weak side, and because he can struggle with his lateral movement, he often gets really under-sold IMO.

The last remnants of the myth that David West is a bad defensive player are disappearing fast. There are few hold outs on the board who still like to go on preconceptions instead of the on the court reality, but he is near the top of the league in defensive win share right now. One could say that is because of everyone else he plays with, but I doubt Troy Murphy would be near the top with the same lineup...

David does have a few bad plays sometimes, but the majority of his time on the court he is playing stellar defense.

edit: some stats

Defensive Rating:
<tbody>
1.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
93.4


2.
Larry Sanders (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sandela01.html)-MIL
96.2


3.
Andre Drummond (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drumman01.html)-DET
96.5


4.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
96.5


5.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
96.6


6.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
97.2


7.
Emeka Okafor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoem01.html)-WAS
97.7


8.
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)-SAS
98.2


9.
Lamar Odom (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/odomla01.html)-LAC
98.4


10.
Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)-CHI
98.5


11.
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)-SAS
98.6


12.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
98.6


13.
Tony Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html)-MEM
98.8


14.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
98.9

</tbody>



Defensive Win Shares:

<tbody>
1.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
3.7


2.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
3.6


3.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
3.2


4.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
3.0


5.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
3.0


6.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
2.9


7.
Kevin Durant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html)-OKC
2.9


8.
Blake Griffin (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/griffbl01.html)-LAC
2.8


9.
Zach Randolph (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01.html)-MEM
2.8


10.
Josh Smith (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html)-ATL
2.7

</tbody>

CableKC
02-06-2013, 01:32 PM
I'm the opposite and I'm nervous about him coming off the bench. There are some players that play much, much better as starters. Lance played well out of the gate as a starter, even in the one game he started last season. But as a bench player he's been inconsistent.

I hope he continues his play, but I'm not sure he will.
As Seth mentioned and many have noted here...it won't matter.

Vogel finally figured out that it's best to have at least 3 of the core Players on the floor at all times.

That means that Lance will likely be on the floor with 2 of the other Core Players. At most, I'd assume that he'd be on the floor with 2 of the 3 Bench Players ( some 2 Player combination of Hansbrough, DJ or Mahinmi ) while playing with 2 of the remaining primary Core Players ( some 2 Player combination of GH, PG, Granger, West or Hibbert ).

billbradley
02-06-2013, 01:35 PM
If Roy kept the ball high and fell down only one or two times a game he'd be an all star again.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 01:38 PM
Also think Danny will need to be dealt next year, but for this year he really diversifies the Pacers. Danny playing the 4 with West at the 5 sometimes is a whole new squad, that other teams haven't seen.
I think that a Small Ball lineup of Granger at the 4 and West at the 5 is a mistake.

I have ZERO problem with Granger playing some backup PF minutes. In fact, that would be the only way to have Granger play a full 33 mpg...him playing a small amount of backup PF minutes. But when Vogel does employ that lineup...it would only make sense to pair him up with Hibbert or Mahinmi in the Frontcourt...not West.

West isn't a deterrent at the hoop like Hibbert is. Heck, Mahinmi is a better deterrent than West is.

billbradley
02-06-2013, 01:46 PM
I think that a Small Ball lineup of Granger at the 4 and West at the 5 is a mistake.

I have ZERO problem with Granger playing some backup PF minutes. In fact, that would be the only way to have Granger play a full 33 mpg...him playing a small amount of backup PF minutes. But when Vogel does employ that lineup...it would only make sense to pair him up with Hibbert or Mahinmi in the Frontcourt...not West.

West isn't a deterrent at the hoop like Hibbert is. Heck, Mahinmi is a better deterrent than West is.

I think Mannix was going for a faster, high offense look when needed.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 01:48 PM
The last remnants of the myth that David West is a bad defensive player are disappearing fast. There are few hold outs on the board who still like to go on preconceptions instead of the on the court reality, but he is near the top of the league in defensive win share right now. One could say that is because of everyone else he plays with, but I doubt Troy Murphy would be near the top with the same lineup...

David does have a few bad plays sometimes, but the majority of his time on the court he is playing stellar defense.

edit: some stats

Defensive Rating:
<tbody>
1.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
93.4


2.
Larry Sanders (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sandela01.html)-MIL
96.2


3.
Andre Drummond (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drumman01.html)-DET
96.5


4.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
96.5


5.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
96.6


6.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
97.2


7.
Emeka Okafor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoem01.html)-WAS
97.7


8.
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)-SAS
98.2


9.
Lamar Odom (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/odomla01.html)-LAC
98.4


10.
Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)-CHI
98.5


11.
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)-SAS
98.6


12.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
98.6


13.
Tony Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html)-MEM
98.8


14.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
98.9

</tbody>



Defensive Win Shares:

<tbody>
1.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
3.7


2.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
3.6


3.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
3.2


4.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
3.0


5.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
3.0


6.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
2.9


7.
Kevin Durant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html)-OKC
2.9


8.
Blake Griffin (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/griffbl01.html)-LAC
2.8


9.
Zach Randolph (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01.html)-MEM
2.8


10.
Josh Smith (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html)-ATL
2.7

</tbody>

You know those tables you are posting don't mean much when you have guys like Boozer, Blake, Odom and Tiago Spliter on the list.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 01:56 PM
Just wanted to take the occasion of one of his better nights to add that it's a damn shame some people think David West is a bad defensive player. He's really quite good. Talks on defense, good hands, smart/knows where to be within the team D schemes/rotations, strong on the block, long, and sometimes gets some blocks, too. But because he's low to the ground and doesn't swat shots like JO did from the help/weak side, and because he can struggle with his lateral movement, he often gets really under-sold IMO.
His spacing as absolutely stellar. He's not a high flyer, but he's in the right space on the court. I'm really really impressed with his defensive play recently... moreso even than his offensive play.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 01:57 PM
You know those tables you are posting don't mean much when you have guys like Boozer, Blake, Odom and Tiago Spliter on the list.
I get that we should take the list with a very small hint of salt....but does that mean that we should ignore the rest of the skilled defensive Players on the list?

Anthem
02-06-2013, 01:57 PM
Based off of the first 6 games of the season? Yeah, you're technically right, but it's not like the switch was turned when he entered the starting lineup.

We haven't seen this Lance come off of the bench. There's nothing I've seen that makes me think Lance can't come off the bench. He stands around and watches while other Pacers get going, and then he asserts himself. I think that translates easily to a bench type player.
Weird. You quoted me, but I didn't actually say that.

PaceBalls
02-06-2013, 01:58 PM
You know those tables you are posting don't mean much when you have guys like Boozer, Blake, Odom and Tiago Spliter on the list.

Ahh, you must be one of those last hold outs on the board that go with preconceived notions about David West instead of the reality on the court! ;)

Since86
02-06-2013, 01:59 PM
Sorry. I had the checkmark clicked, because I was gonna thank your post and make a comment about you shortening Seth's name each time time you quoted him. For some reason, it made me laugh.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 02:16 PM
Ahh, you must be one of those last hold outs on the board that go with preconceived notions about David West instead of the reality on the court! ;)

I think he is better on D this year, I was ready to recognize him for it and then the 3 games on the West happened, is he better than last year? yes, is he the 2nd or 3rd best defender on the team as some are suggesting? I don't think so.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Just because West might only be 4th or 5th best defender on the team doesn't mean he is a bad defender though. Just means we have a lot of good defenders.

vnzla81
02-06-2013, 02:30 PM
Just because West might only be 4th or 5th best defender on the team doesn't mean he is a bad defender though. Just means we have a lot of good defenders.

I think he was a bad defender(now he is decent) he is in a system that covers for a lot of his mistakes(like Boozer), of course that having a group of guys that can play great D around him also helps, I'm giving him and A for trying though, he didn't try this hard in NO, there are even some interviews of him talking about it.

CableKC
02-06-2013, 02:32 PM
The last remnants of the myth that David West is a bad defensive player are disappearing fast. There are few hold outs on the board who still like to go on preconceptions instead of the on the court reality, but he is near the top of the league in defensive win share right now. One could say that is because of everyone else he plays with, but I doubt Troy Murphy would be near the top with the same lineup...

David does have a few bad plays sometimes, but the majority of his time on the court he is playing stellar defense.

edit: some stats

Defensive Rating:
<tbody>
1.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
93.4


2.
Larry Sanders (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sandela01.html)-MIL
96.2


3.
Andre Drummond (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/drumman01.html)-DET
96.5


4.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
96.5


5.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
96.6


6.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
97.2


7.
Emeka Okafor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/okafoem01.html)-WAS
97.7


8.
Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html)-SAS
98.2


9.
Lamar Odom (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/odomla01.html)-LAC
98.4


10.
Carlos Boozer (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boozeca01.html)-CHI
98.5


11.
Tiago Splitter (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/splitti01.html)-SAS
98.6


12.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
98.6


13.
Tony Allen (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html)-MEM
98.8


14.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
98.9

</tbody>



Defensive Win Shares:

<tbody>
1.
Paul George (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/georgpa01.html)-IND
3.7


2.
Joakim Noah (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01.html)-CHI
3.6


3.
Tim Duncan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)-SAS
3.2


4.
David West (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westda01.html)-IND
3.0


5.
Marc Gasol (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html)-MEM
3.0


6.
Roy Hibbert (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html)-IND
2.9


7.
Kevin Durant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html)-OKC
2.9


8.
Blake Griffin (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/griffbl01.html)-LAC
2.8


9.
Zach Randolph (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01.html)-MEM
2.8


10.
Josh Smith (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html)-ATL
2.7

</tbody>
I assume that it would be helpful to get some context as to what the list shows. Can someone explain to me what it means?

I assume that it's similar to the +/- stat....but maybe related more to how much a Player contributes when it comes to the Team defense?

McKeyFan
02-06-2013, 02:55 PM
I disagree with what Mannix is saying too, but Danny's shooting definitely gets more respect than Lance's for the time being. Now that is not saying Lance is a bad shooter, it's just saying that Danny's history is much more proven.
I like how you worded this. Spot on.

Interestingly though, Lance doesn't get tons of space to shoot threes. I'm not sure Danny's presence will open it up much more than already is the case.

Trader Joe
02-06-2013, 03:02 PM
I like how you worded this. Spot on.

Interestingly though, Lance doesn't get tons of space to shoot threes. I'm not sure Danny's presence will open it up much more than already is the case.

Lance also shoots a lot more 3s off the dribble than Danny does so he is kind of starting with a defender on him. They are in different situations, but yeah I don't see Danny causing Roy to suddenly shoot much better. Unless, like I said, it really is all mental with Roy.

PaceBalls
02-06-2013, 03:03 PM
I assume that it would be helpful to get some context as to what the list shows. Can someone explain to me what it means?

I assume that it's similar to the +/- stat....but maybe related more to how much a Player contributes when it comes to the Team defense?

Sorry, I should probably have linked the info. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_leaders.html

Here is a bit of background on what the stats mean, scroll down to part IV. http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Crediting Defensive Win Shares to players is based on Dean Oliver's Defensive Rating. Defensive Rating is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions (please see Oliver's book for further details). Here is a description of the process (once again using LeBron James (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html) in 2008-09 as an example):


Calculate the Defensive Rating for each player. James's Defensive Rating in 2008-09 was 99.1.
Calculate marginal defense for each player. Marginal defense is equal to (player minutes played / team minutes played) * (team defensive possessions) * (1.08 * (league points per possession) - ((Defensive Rating) / 100)). For James this is (3054 / 19780) * 7341 * ((1.08 * 1.083) - (99.1 / 100)) = 202.5. Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)). For the 2008-09 Cavaliers this is 0.32 * 100.0 * (88.7 / 91.7) = 30.95.
Credit Defensive Win Shares to the players. Defensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal defense) / (marginal points per win). James gets credit for 202.5 / 30.95 = 6.54 Defensive Win Shares.

Justin Tyme
02-06-2013, 03:24 PM
I think the Pacers are just trying to give Roy's offense as many excuses as possible at this point.


A MAX contract worth of excuses.

I said this b4 that the reason Portland gave him a Max offer sheet was b/c of the Allstar year he had. Unfortunately for whatever reason or excuses, Hibbert isn't living up to the contract he's being paid. That's the problem. If he was being paid 9-10 mil with the game he's presently producing, he wouldn't be taking the flack or having to deal with the "he's overpaid comments."

Who would you rather have, Dwest at his salary or Hibbert at his? Give me DWest at his production and a lesser center over Hibbert and a lesser PF. IOW, DWest and Mahinmi verses Hibbert and Hansbro. Is there really any question as to which is the better combo, especially for the money? JMOAA

mildlysane
02-06-2013, 03:30 PM
Lance also shoots a lot more 3s off the dribble than Danny does so he is kind of starting with a defender on him. They are in different situations, but yeah I don't see Danny causing Roy to suddenly shoot much better. Unless, like I said, it really is all mental with Roy.

Maybe Danny is Roy's mental crutch. Having him on the floor might relax Roy a little bit and help his shooting in that manner instead of actually spreading the floor.

Justin Tyme
02-06-2013, 03:36 PM
If Roy kept the ball high and fell down only one or two times a game he'd be an all star again.

LOL! Best laugh of the day for me.

Unfortunately, it will take more than that for Hibbert to ever be an Allstar again.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 03:38 PM
Sorry. I had the checkmark clicked, because I was gonna thank your post and make a comment about you shortening Seth's name each time time you quoted him. For some reason, it made me laugh.
:laugh: Glad somebody laughed. I've had a bunch of little jokes recently that nobody's noticed but me. That's ok, I don't mind posting for my own enjoyment.

Anthem
02-06-2013, 03:39 PM
Unless, like I said, it really is all mental with Roy.
But it *IS* all mental with Roy.

Now whether Danny specifically is a mental crutch for Roy, I have no idea. But clearly, the difference between "Good Roy" and "Bad Roy" is 90% above the neck.

Justin Tyme
02-06-2013, 03:49 PM
But it *IS* all mental with Roy.

Now whether Danny specifically is a mental crutch for Roy, I have no idea. But clearly, the difference between "Good Roy" and "Bad Roy" is 90% above the neck.


Absolutely, you hit the mark, spot on, hammer hits nail, etc!!!!!

Kid Minneapolis
02-06-2013, 04:15 PM
Sorry I'm late to the party. Anyway, you all can thank me for the win. :) I got a call from a bud last night an hour before tip-off offering free tickets to the game, and the first thought I had was "Oh, with my mojo, we might just pull out a win against the Hawks finally, who seem to be our kryptonite." So I agreed, and we went... and sat right next to Area 55, boy are they a rowdy bunch, lol. I don't get to go often to Indy sports games because I live out of town... but every game I've ever been to --- my team has won. I'm not even joking. It's going back at least 9 years. I get to go to maybe 1 Colts game a year and 1-2 Pacer games, and we've always won. I helped the Colts beat the Pats in 2006 AFC championship game, the only game I went to that year. The Pacers won last night against the Hawks, finally. So... you are welcome. :)