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View Full Version : Never thought I would be so excited about beating the Hawks



Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 11:40 PM
That 4th quarter was a lot of fun.

Pacers don't win this game tonight without Michael Curry. He brought defense, toughness, leadership and he even made a few shots. He's a nice addition, not sure why so many Piston fans hate him so much, I like defensive minded small forwards.

There were times tonight when I got disgusted watcghing this game, tyhere was a lot of bad basketball, and three horrible calls late in regulation. Foster's 6th foul, Fred's charge on Al and then the last second shot by Fred, all bad calls. Anyone else wonder what Jeff was thinking about when he was sitting on the bench late in the OT, he did not lok too happy. Hope his hip is not giving him too much trouble. He is good for about 20 minutes per game right now,

Foster game sure guard Walker though, not sure if he scored on jeff the whole night, but Walker got off when JJ was on him.

Tinsley played a great game and I have no problems with anything he did tonight, yes he forced things, but with the lineup we have right now, forcing a few shots is to be expected.

I wish Fred was more aggressive throughout the whole game, he seems to pick his spots, but we need him to take over these games and he seems to wait until the 4th quarters.

Key of the game was the defense was much better in the second half especially in the 4th and I think Curry had a lot to do whith that.

Great win tonight, proud opf the guys for gutting this win out after trailing by 12 early in the 4th.

What did you think of Al tonight, he was not much of a factor if you ask me

Deadshot
12-14-2004, 11:44 PM
I agree with pretty much everything you said there - except I don't think Fred was fouled at the last second. I saw several views of the play, and it looked to me as if the defenders got all ball.

Just wondering - where were Gill and Cro tonight? I figure Cro is just resting his multiple injuries (I didn't read about it before the game, but I know it was good for him), but I'm assuming that Carlisle is basically set on playing AJ over Gill now?

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM
I admit I did not see a good replay of the last second shot by Fred, and I understyand they generally won't call any borderline fouls in that situation, Fred needed to sell that a little but better.

pb777
12-14-2004, 11:50 PM
poor ball movement tonight

it got frustrating watching aj run the point, make one pass to fred and fred shoots. What about reggie, david and jj? This happened a lot in the 2nd half. Granted - we won, but our ball movement needs to improve imo.

tins was fantastic tonight.

jj can shoot, really really well. his teammates need to find him open on the perimeter more often.

hulk - just amazing that 28 teams passed on this guy. in 2 years he will be an allstar. u heard it here first...

fred pulled us back in the game but selfishly. i hope rick gets in his ear about the need to pass the ball.

#31 looked tired early tonight but hit some big shots, especially the one late in the 4th. u gotta love this guy.

ummmm - where were the fans? how does atl keep this team, they must be losing money?

Kegboy
12-14-2004, 11:55 PM
ummmm - where were the fans? how does atl keep this team, they must be losing money?
Al said the weather was really bad down there, the coldest it had been in years (which I find hard to believe, but whatever.) Anyway, he blamed that on the non-existant crowd.

Ragnar
12-14-2004, 11:56 PM
I agree that Curry was important mainly because Cro was out. When Curry is in game shape I think he will be better than he is now which is not all that bad. I defiantly hope they dump Edwards instead of Curry when or if we get Ron back.

Tins did force some things tonight but he did way way more good than bad and we got a nice win. Clearly we need him in a very bad way right now. I hope he can stay healthy for the rest of the season because we are going no where without him.

Cro also showed how important he was by not being there tonight. With him we win this without overtime even with the really bad calls. The reffs gave the Hawks all the home court calls tonight. That offensive foul on Fred was ridiculous.

I was happy to see Freddie get more into this game, I felt like he had kind of gone away in the last few. I would like it to have been more consistent but I will take the production. We really need to run more plays for J.J. coming off screens or something because he can really shoot.

Ragnar
12-14-2004, 11:58 PM
Al said the weather was really bad down there, the coldest it had been in years (which I find hard to believe, but whatever.) Anyway, he blamed that on the non-existant crowd.
They never have good crowds. It makes me want to move there because at least a couple times a year I could get great seats to a Pacer game. :devil:

Unclebuck
12-15-2004, 12:00 AM
Current temp in Atlanta is 28 drgrees, that is cold for Atltanta

Outlaw
12-15-2004, 12:07 AM
[QUOTE=pb777]
fred pulled us back in the game but selfishly. i hope rick gets in his ear about the need to pass the ball.


I don't think Fred was selfish at all. He is one guy I am comfortable with when the game is on the line. He is a triple threat with the dish,drive, or shooting the jumper. And let's not forget he is a fantastic FT shooter also. He tends to make good decisions with the ball from what I see.:)

Some one can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Fred also 2nd or 3rd on the team in assists right now?

pb777
12-15-2004, 12:11 AM
well it just seemed like he was passing up open guys to get a lot of his shots off. Some went in but some didnt. I agree with you, i dont think his game is selfish at all, he just seemed that way a little tonight. and maybe that was needed for us to get back in the game. You have to admit though that tonight our ball movement was not good.

Outlaw
12-15-2004, 12:20 AM
Yeah it seems as though guys just stand around waiting for something to develop.When that happens it is good to have someone like Fred who can create his own shot with the shot clock winding down.:cool:

pb777
12-15-2004, 12:22 AM
Agreed. Maybe those were clear-out plays so that fred would have room to drive. dunno, but guys were not moving much without the ball tonight.

3Ball
12-15-2004, 12:32 AM
hulk - just amazing that 28 teams passed on this guy. in 2 years he will be an allstar. u heard it here first...

I agree that the Hulkster COULD be an allstar soon, but he probably won't be with the Pacers. If Rick has a choice and he can play the guy that's been a veteran 5 minutes longer, that's who he'll play. And on a contending team, you can hardly blaim him. It's going to take a lot of injuries for Harrison to see much playing time after the cavalry arrives. But wow, what a draft. It blows my mind how we can keep picking up these guys drafting 27th+ year after year.

PacerMan
12-15-2004, 12:35 AM
The first thing I thought too is that we don't win this game without Michael Curry.

I though Al looked like the player I remembered. And the player I'm glad we got rid of.

Other than that, I'm proud of the effort once again. And glad that effort finally resulted in a win.

Yeh, 21 points 10 rebounds 4 assists. Damn, he SUCKS!!

pb777
12-15-2004, 12:40 AM
I agree that the Hulkster COULD be an allstar soon, but he probably won't be with the Pacers. If Rick has a choice and he can play the guy that's been a veteran 5 minutes longer, that's who he'll play. And on a contending team, you can hardly blaim him. It's going to take a lot of injuries for Harrison to see much playing time after the cavalry arrives. But wow, what a draft. It blows my mind how we can keep picking up these guys drafting 27th+ year after year.you're right. if he would continue to get the pt he's getting now, in 2 or 3 yrs he could potentially become an allstar. but on this team with a full roster i agree that it's doubtful. however, imagine a middle of hulk, jo, and ron/? in 2 years. wow.

SoupIsGood
12-15-2004, 12:42 AM
I agree that the Hulkster COULD be an allstar soon, but he probably won't be with the Pacers. If Rick has a choice and he can play the guy that's been a veteran 5 minutes longer, that's who he'll play. And on a contending team, you can hardly blaim him. It's going to take a lot of injuries for Harrison to see much playing time after the cavalry arrives. But wow, what a draft. It blows my mind how we can keep picking up these guys drafting 27th+ year after year.

Rick would play the better player, unless you are talking about this season. Harrison could be an allstar with us, after Shaq in the east there's only like... Z maybe.

I will be disappointed if David doesn't snatch the starting job sometimes next year.

Peck
12-15-2004, 04:41 AM
That 4th quarter was a lot of fun.

Pacers don't win this game tonight without Michael Curry. He brought defense, toughness, leadership and he even made a few shots. He's a nice addition, not sure why so many Piston fans hate him so much, I like defensive minded small forwards.

There were times tonight when I got disgusted watcghing this game, tyhere was a lot of bad basketball, and three horrible calls late in regulation. Foster's 6th foul, Fred's charge on Al and then the last second shot by Fred, all bad calls. Anyone else wonder what Jeff was thinking about when he was sitting on the bench late in the OT, he did not lok too happy. Hope his hip is not giving him too much trouble. He is good for about 20 minutes per game right now,

Foster game sure guard Walker though, not sure if he scored on jeff the whole night, but Walker got off when JJ was on him.

Tinsley played a great game and I have no problems with anything he did tonight, yes he forced things, but with the lineup we have right now, forcing a few shots is to be expected.

I wish Fred was more aggressive throughout the whole game, he seems to pick his spots, but we need him to take over these games and he seems to wait until the 4th quarters.

Key of the game was the defense was much better in the second half especially in the 4th and I think Curry had a lot to do whith that.

Great win tonight, proud opf the guys for gutting this win out after trailing by 12 early in the 4th.

What did you think of Al tonight, he was not much of a factor if you ask me

Curry was fantastic. I was ready to cut Edwards right on the spot, oh wait I've been ready to do that since the season began. ;)

I don't have a lot to add to what has already been added but I agree with PB on this & I think it's been a major factor in at least 5 of those 7 losses. Lack of ball movement is a problem, but during the latter part of the 4th & the OT the movement was good.

Everybody laugh with me now, the Atlanta Hawks passed on David Harrison. Of course so did every other team in the NBA other than us but this team has been so poor in the middle for so long.

I thought the Hulk was a major factor in this game & he is already right now establishing himself as an inside presence on the defensive end. He is already making teams & players adjust their shots.

Foster had a good first half, he wasn't as effective in the second half. I still see the defensive effort there with him so I just don't see where you guys think he runs out of gas. However I know he was not able to do any cardio work outs so it does make sense that he loses it as the game goes on.

Fred Jones defers to much. What I mean by that is that is that there are just to many times during the game he just tries to let Reggie, Austin, etc. make the plays. Fred can make plays. I don't want him jacking it up everytime he gets it but I just hope he starts to understand that his time is now, not when Reggie is gone.

I thought James Jones also had a solid game. Defensively I thought he really befuddled Al a few times.

Man it feels good to get a win again. It's no coincidence that Jamaal is back & we get a win.

Let's kick some Raptor @ss Friday.

JOneal7
12-15-2004, 06:14 AM
JT was just awesome tonight! and if you notice our ball movement is never good! And why does JJ stand behind the 3 half the time? he needs to move more. Man david harrison is a player! what a steal at 29!
GO PACERS

Unclebuck
12-15-2004, 08:43 AM
I am shocked that David Harrison is as good of a block blocker as he is.

MagicRat
12-15-2004, 08:49 AM
I am shocked that David Harrison is as good of a block blocker as he is.
I'm impressed with his use of his left hand to block shots........

ABADays
12-15-2004, 09:53 AM
More than anything tonight I felt a sense of relief. We needed a win badly.

Tonight Freddie did something that's been missing for a few games. He got aggresive and asserted himself again. We need that all the time while players are out.

I don't care who we beat. Every win is a big win right now. Let's take the Raps on Friday.

ChicagoJ
12-15-2004, 11:18 AM
I believe we're going to have to have big contibutions from Harrison to make a deep playoff run.

I know a lot of you, looking at Rick's track record, believe he's going back to the bench when JO and Pollard return and when Foster is physically capable of playing effectively for more than 20 mpg (although I don't think he's ever been effective at more than 20 mpg but that's a different discussion?).

I disagree.

Rick has shown the ability to learn from his mistakes.

And David Harrison has shown that he has earned a permanent spot in the rotation. Personally, I'd start him, but as long as he's getting regular minutes all season long he'll be reliable in the playoffs.

He's already establishing that he is a physical presence in the paint, defensively. You can't measure that by any stats except perhaps opponents FG%. His offense and rebounding will continue to come around, those are byproducts of post position and footwork. Even if you think he's not doing anything [as measured by statistics] during a game (such as the Sacremento game the other night), just look at how many layups the opponents get as soon as he sits down.

DisplacedKnick
12-15-2004, 11:49 AM
Harrison will go to the bench but he'll also be getting 15-20 mpg.

Foster may need to go back on the IL to get the grit off his tongue it was dragging so much the 2nd half. Every time play stopped he was leaning against the scorer's table or the basket support.

Kegboy
12-15-2004, 11:56 AM
I'm with you all on DH, but I think the love needs to be dampered a bit, for two reasons.

One, he doesn't board nearly enough. Sure, part of that is he's a rookie, but it's obvious watching him he doesn't have the nose for it. More than a couple of the rebounds he got tonight just happened to fall to him. His short arms don't help matters, either.

Two, I hate to bring this up, but guys, that wall is coming. You know it, I know it, the American people know it. While the Pacers raved about his conditioning work over the summer, we can all see there's more work to be done there, and it's gonna catch up to him in the next couple months.

I don't believe Rick starts veterans just for veterans sake (he started DH over Austin when Jeff came back.) But if Pollard comes back playing the way he was, David's minutes are gonna go way down after JO comes back. He's not gonna be Peanut Butter, just getting extreme mop-up minutes, but I can see him not being in the regular rotation, if only cause I forsee him hurting mightily come February or so.

I still believe he'll be starting next season, however.

ChicagoJ
12-15-2004, 12:04 PM
I agree his conditioning is a long way away from where it needs to be. Its taken Tinsley four years and Bender 345,208 years to figure it out just what 'being in NBA shape' means. So yeah, he's gonna hit the wall, but the only way he's starting next season is if he figures out how to fight through that wall.

That means he's still got to play 14-20 mpg, even if it means a week or two of putting up two points on 1-5 shooting with 3 rebounds for him to figure out how to do it. If not, we'll be in the same position with him next year.

The rookie wall is a reasonable explanation for poor play, but it should not be used as an excuse to bench a guy/ cut his minutes if he's going to be a long-term player for the team.

I'm not worried about his rebounding; that will improve over time. And even if he's not getting great rebounding numbers, his physical presence makes it easier for the Pacers, as a team, to control the defensive glass. Again, you can't measure that by DH's individual rebounds.

Kegboy
12-15-2004, 12:15 PM
I see where you're coming from Jay, but if Pollard is playing well, I'd rather give him those minutes. Every game is going to be crucial the rest of the year, and we don't have the time to be handholding a rookie.

Of course, if Pollard returns to poor form, then I'm all for playing David over Austin at the 5.

ChicagoJ
12-15-2004, 12:41 PM
I don't see how we would miss the playoffs, even assuming the suspsensions are upheld - provided that none of our big five - JO, Tinsley, Harrison, Sjax, and Uncle are injured the rest of the way.

Our seed is not going to represent the "danger" we present to a higher-seeded team in the playoffs. So I view this regular season as the perfect time for Rick to stick with young(er) guys like DH, Fred, JJ, and even Tinsley so that they are ready to contribute at a high level, when called upon, in a deep playoff run. We aren't going to be battling anybody for home court advantage, unless we've still got a shot at the #4 seed, but that's only for HCA in the first round, which isn't a big deal. So losing an extra game or two in February in order to help David figure out how to contribute even while exhausted is fine by me.

tseramid
12-15-2004, 01:45 PM
I look at it like this... By the time Harrison hits the wall, we will have JO and Jackson back along with Pollard and Croshere getting healthy, so Harrison will not be as crucial as he is now. He will go back to playing 15 minutes a game or less and develop his game progressively along the way. He is getting a ton of experience right now and I guarantee you that he will know exactly what he needs to do in the offseason already. For now, he has to work with what he has to help the team. I don't think there is a need to force playing time his way once everyone is healthy.

Deadshot
12-15-2004, 04:52 PM
I see where you're coming from Jay, but if Pollard is playing well, I'd rather give him those minutes. Every game is going to be crucial the rest of the year, and we don't have the time to be handholding a rookie.

Of course, if Pollard returns to poor form, then I'm all for playing David over Austin at the 5.

Even though Pollard has improved his play from last year, I honestly don't think it will be as good as DH's by the time Scot returns. Either way, it will be nice to have Pollard for when David gets in foul trouble.

SoupIsGood
12-15-2004, 06:41 PM
David will hit said wall, and crumble it to pieces.