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TheSauceMaster
12-14-2004, 04:49 AM
http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/202080-5906-036.html

IN THE BEGINNING: School coaches, teachers, young players describe a man of determination and heart

By Sekou Smith
sekou.smith@indystar.com
December 14, 2004

NEW YORK -- Take two steps inside the cramped office of LaSalle Academy basketball coach Bill Aberer and he's already fussing.

Aberer's Cardinals are just minutes removed from a 74-55 win over Cardinal Spellman in Buckley Gymnasium, the historic cracker box on Manhattan's Lower East Side where Indiana Pacers All-Star forward Ron Artest starred in high school.

Aside from teaching all day and coaching his team to victory on a wickedly cold and rainy Friday afternoon, Aberer has been besieged with questions from around the country about his former pupil. He said his phone hasn't stopped ringing since the Nov. 19 brawl between Artest and his Pacers teammates and Detroit fans at the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Aberer's answer to all questions is the same: The caricature of Ron Artest seen nightly on TV is not the same Ron Artest he knows.

"I don't know what you are looking for, but if you're here looking for somebody to tear him down, you've come to the wrong place." Aberer says. "The press, the public doesn't know Ron Artest the way we do around here. The way they play it on TV, there's Jack the Ripper, Charles Manson and then Ronnie Artest. It's ridiculous, and I can't stand it.

"It's just wrong. Anyway you want to do it, that's wrong to treat somebody that way. Now, nobody here condones what he did, going into the stands like that. But this kid is nothing like what they are making him out to be, and it's a travesty that no one is telling the truth about him."

The truth?

The truth is quite a few people feel that Artest's season-long suspension, doled out by NBA commissioner David Stern, was justified.

The truth -- Artest has said it himself, countless times -- is Artest alone is to blame for the extensive history of dustups and suspensions that have plagued an otherwise brilliant rise to NBA stardom.

The truth is Ron Artest is the benevolent LaSalle Academy alumnus who returns home to shepherd Cardinals players to the Five Star basketball camp in Pennsylvania every summer, helping pay their way and working tirelessly with them to ensure that they enjoy the same experience he did.

The truth is the same Ron Artest who struck fear into the hearts of fans everywhere when he sprinted into the crowd that night in Detroit is the same Ron Artest that ran down a hill and bought sandwiches and sodas for 30 campers the last night of Five Star.

"This is a guy that could eat anywhere he wants, a millionaire, and he's down at Turkey Hill getting food for all the kids," Aberer said. "This guy's a millionaire, and he sleeps in the same bunks as coaches, eats with kids, is up at 6:30 to work out with our kids and put them through drills. They love that. And at night he's up until 1:30 or 2 in the morning working on his own game. He's phenomenal.

"Despite what they are trying to make him out to be, he is not a monster."

Queensbridge connection

The truth is, at age 25, Ron Artest is all those things, good and bad.

And the origin of that truth lies three subway stops from LaSalle Academy, at Queensbridge Houses, the nation's largest federal housing project.

A brief walk around "QB," as it's known to its 5,000 families, and it's easy to see why the place is so intimidating. The sheer enormousness, the silence and stillness surrounding the seemingly endless arrangement of brick towers pierce any sense of confidence. The structure doesn't scream despair, but it's clear that despair lives here, thrives here.

Artest grew up here. He watched drug deals and shootouts, witnessed firsthand the poverty and tragedy that live alongside the artistic and entrepreneurial genius a life of hardship often inspires.

A select few -- including Artest, rapper Nas and rap duo Mobb Deep -- have made it from Queensbridge to fame. Two former Pacers grew up there, too, Sean Green and Vern Fleming. The road for them, they have said, was no easier.

"This place is no joke," said Artie Cox, another of Artest's former coaches and still one of his close friends. "That's why when people talk bad about Ron-Ron (as Artest is known to many around his old haunt), you know they've never been to where he's from. Because nobody around here will tolerate that. I wish somebody would bad mouth him around me."

Ray Polanco is a former New York City police officer who knows Queensbridge well.

He also taught Artest economics and Spanish at LaSalle and coached him on the freshman team.

Polanco sat Artest for 10 games that season to discipline him, mostly to help smooth out the fiery 14-year-old's rough edges.

"I'm from the Lower East Side, and I think everybody from New York likes to think they are from a tough part of the city," Polanco said. "But I've been to Ronnie's neighborhood, and you better learn how to survive in that neighborhood or you're going to be in trouble.

"That's where Ronnie gets his toughness from. He's not going to back down from anybody. He's always been that way. He is from an area where it's bred in him not to back down from anybody."

Artest didn't go after Pistons center Ben Wallace after Wallace shoved him that night at the Palace. For that, some have questioned Artest's toughness. Not those who have known him for years.

"I heard a TV commentator call him a coward for not fighting Ben Wallace," Aberer said. "A coward? A coward? He was trying to do the right thing. This is a guy that went after Shaq O'Neal -- I don't think a coward would do that. I thought the restraint he showed was admirable.

"But that's just more of the stupid crap people that know nothing about him are spreading."

Lives for challenge

LaSalle officials dispute the notion that Artest always has been troubled.

School President Brother Michael Farrell said Artest was an honor student, and "we never had a problem" while Artest attended the school. Coaches said that during breaks in practice, while other players were relaxing or shooting around, Artest would be in a corner finishing his homework.

Hard work paid off in basketball, too. Artest was a star on a Cardinals team that went 27-0 and won the city title during his senior season, 1996-97. A McDonald's All-American, he had his pick of colleges and chose to stay near home, at St. John's.

Former St. John's coach Fran Fraschilla, who recruited Artest and coached him during his freshman season (Artest went pro after his sophomore season), said he saw qualities in Artest that he hadn't seen in 23 years of coaching, a career that saw him coach 18 players who went on to the NBA.

"Ronnie's got this competitiveness that is totally off the charts," said Fraschilla, now an ESPN analyst living in Dallas. "The thing we always needed at St. John's was a jump-starter, a guy that refused to lose. Ronnie single-handedly jump-started St. John's."

Fraschilla said Artest did that by using what Queensbridge had ingrained in him: fervent pride and a fear of failure that borders on maniacal. Both showed in Artest's tireless work ethic and at-times peculiar behavior. His old coach suspects it's all fueled by a need in Artest to prove to any nonbelievers that he's the real deal -- "QB's finest," as one of his tattoos reads.

Fraschilla had a counterpunch for Artest's over-the-top behavior.

"I'd tweak him. I'd throw him out of practice," said the coach, who lived by the credo that he had to be "crazier than your craziest player."

Artest also would be forced to play with the second and third team whenever Fraschilla needed to crank up the intensity at practice. Artest loved it. "The greater the challenge, the greater the response," Fraschilla said.

Fraschilla maintains that during Artest's two years at the school there were no problems off the court. He said Artest was always respectful of authority. The only outbursts were on the court, his coach said. Those would last about 10 minutes, and then Artest would go right back to being the gentle, giving person his family and close friends talk about.

"I'm sad that people don't get to know that low-key, innocent side of him," Fraschilla said. "I would coach him again. I'd love to, because he lived to show you that he could do whatever somebody thought he couldn't."

Life goes on

So can Artest overcome his latest incident, called by some the worst moment in U.S. sports history? He'll spend a lifetime dealing with the fallout, Polanco said with regret.

Aberer said he doesn't care if people ever change their minds about Artest because he won't.

Pat Thomas, a senior at LaSalle Academy whose picture with Artest from the Five Star camp last summer is the centerpiece in a photo collage outside the gymnasium, claims all of New York, Artest's New York, supports its native son.

"Life goes on around here whether you want it to or not," said Thomas, who scored a game-high 26 points Friday afternoon. "What happened has already happened. Everybody has to move on and let Ron-Ron move on, too."

Artest himself isn't talking about the matter, on the advice of legal counsel. Thursday, he and his suspended teammates spent six hours with an arbitrator in a Midtown Manhattan law office -- only a dozen or so miles from Queensbridge, but a whole world apart -- trying to regain some of the games and money they've lost while serving their suspensions.

That's about all that may be salvageable from the entire affair of Nov. 19.

But like Pat Thomas said, life goes on.

Call Star reporter Sekou Smith at (317) 444-6053

able
12-14-2004, 08:12 AM
Sekou Would have been such a nice article if Sekou hadnt' f'd up badly with this little intermezzo (opinionated nonsense? see :montieth:q&a) :

"The truth?

The truth is quite a few people feel that Artest's season-long suspension, doled out by NBA commissioner David Stern, was justified."

Why? because it has nothing to do with the content of the article, if anything it brings an otherwise well informative article to the level of gutter journalism.

After I cut that sentence it was actually a very nice article and it shows once more, there is more then twixth heaven and earth.

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 08:48 AM
That was great to read.

For those of you who are anti-Artest, I would be interested in your thoughts, feelings and emotions when reading this article.

sixthman
12-14-2004, 10:52 AM
I'm not anti-Artest the human being. I've readily acknowledged that he's a fantastic person off the court and out of the locker room. I just want to win a championship, and know that we can never do that as long as Ron Artest the basketball player is still on this team.

For this season, I'd say the opposite. We can't win a championship in 2004-05 unless Ron IS on the team.

I knew Ron was a better student than most suspect, but an honors student was new info. I guess the reports that Ron was a math major at St. Johns are accurate.

I also didn't remember that Ron was a McDonald's All American.

My judgement is that Ron has more good qualities and good character than most Americans. I think it is in the Pacers best interest to stick with Ron, whether he is able to come back this season or not.

He's not a piece of junk as some would have it. He's worth the effort.

sixthman
12-14-2004, 11:11 AM
Your comment has a disconnect in logic, btown. And, it is probably, untrue. I don't know enough about Ron's AAU and high school career to know the facts. But I'd imagine at least the AAU teams won plenty of championships. :wink:

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 11:37 AM
I just want to highight this portion of the article, for what reason, Oh I don't know

Ray Polanco is a former New York City police officer who knows Queensbridge well.

He also taught Artest economics and Spanish at LaSalle and coached him on the freshman team.

Polanco sat Artest for 10 games that season to discipline him, mostly to help smooth out the fiery 14-year-old's rough edges.

"I'm from the Lower East Side, and I think everybody from New York likes to think they are from a tough part of the city," Polanco said. "But I've been to Ronnie's neighborhood, and you better learn how to survive in that neighborhood or you're going to be in trouble.

"That's where Ronnie gets his toughness from. He's not going to back down from anybody. He's always been that way. He is from an area where it's bred in him not to back down from anybody."

Artest didn't go after Pistons center Ben Wallace after Wallace shoved him that night at the Palace. For that, some have questioned Artest's toughness. Not those who have known him for years.

"I heard a TV commentator call him a coward for not fighting Ben Wallace," Aberer said. "A coward? A coward? He was trying to do the right thing. This is a guy that went after Shaq O'Neal -- I don't think a coward would do that. I thought the restraint he showed was admirable.

"But that's just more of the stupid crap people that know nothing about him are spreading."

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2004, 11:43 AM
How nice a person Ron Artest is off the court (and we've all seen articles saying that's how he is) has zero impact on his worth as a basketball player. The two are entirely different things.

I will go back to my Behavioral Studies courses. The best indicator of a person's future behavior is his or her past behavior.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2004, 11:56 AM
That was great to read.

For those of you who are anti-Artest, I would be interested in your thoughts, feelings and emotions when reading this article.For every single nice thing, there's also a long, long list of disrputive things he's done.

The cynic in me thinks that most of the good things he does are just damage control, dreamed up by his agent, so that his cult-like following has a few threads to grasp onto. But that's probably too strong of a statement. By all accounts, he's generous and charitable to a fault, and he cares deeply about helping out the people in QB.

This is one of the reasons why people can understand why there are so many rumors that he's bipolar. I'm not diagnosing him, so don't jump on my @$$ for bringing it up. I'm just saying that there's a reason those rumors don't go away and that is because when he's good, he's very, very good. And when he's bad, he's very, very bad. But he never seems to find the equilibrium point and his condition can swing quite rapidly from moment to moment.

And the polarizing of the community of Pacers fans can be traced to these rapid swings of his condition - some of you see glimpses of good and clutch onto them, others of us see that it always comes back to something bad, usually worse than the previous episode, and are tired of the cycle.

Its not that I don't understand why you guys see the good in him, he's a helluva player, and when he's not a total disruption, he's pretty much an angel. I just don't think I can take another cycle and I don't think any of you, with perhaps one exception, are bold enough to say that the cycle will never repeat itself again, regardless of how much effort the Pacers would invest in Ron. Its coming again, and you all know it.

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 12:11 PM
Jay, you mention when he is bad, he is very, very , very bad. Well I guess that is relative. Maybe very bad but not really bad.

As many of you ave pointd out all this means nothing or very little to his on te court and in the locker room effect he has on the team. To a certain degree I can agree with you, but isn't it a good idea to get to the know the person as they may shead some light on why he is still a pacer

Doug
12-14-2004, 12:17 PM
So can Artest overcome his latest incident, called by some the worst moment in U.S. sports history?

What idiot has called this the worst moment in U.S. sports history?

Sheesh.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2004, 12:28 PM
Jay, you mention when he is bad, he is very, very , very bad. Well I guess that is relative. Maybe very bad but not really bad.

As many of you ave pointd out all this means nothing or very little to his on te court and in the locker room effect he has on the team. To a certain degree I can agree with you, but isn't it a good idea to get to the know the person as they may shead some light on why he is still a pacer
You're talking about a guy who refused to get on the team plane during last season's playoffs, was going to sit out a game during the next series, then flew charter to join his teammates, and then had a mini-meltdown on the court.

I'm sure they are trying as hard as they can to get to know him; he doesn't make it easy.

As for why he's still a Pacer, we know the answer: the asking price this summer was too high for Milwaukee, Memphis, Sacremento, and who knows how many other teams. Orlando got a better offer. Sounds like the Pacers tried to have an auction with a floor price that was too high for any real bidders.

If anything, one should be blaming DW and Bird for overvaluing him even while they were trying to dump him.

dannyboy
12-14-2004, 12:31 PM
I imagine this has been brought up at some point already (so please forgive me), but after the most recent incident, would those of you that are fed up with Ron consider changing your stance if he ever accepted diagnosis/medication?

sweabs
12-14-2004, 12:37 PM
I can just picture this in my head:


And at night he's up until 1:30 or 2 in the morning working on his own game. He's phenomenal.

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 12:41 PM
Jay, I don't see anything wrong with pointing out the good side of Artest, we have all seen a good portion of the bad side.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2004, 01:09 PM
There's nothing wrong with it.

We all acknowledge its true, as well. Largely irrelevant, but true.

You asked what we thought...

A well balanced discussion leads to the following conclusion: with Ron, its fifteen steps up and 18 steps back. Sure, there are some (not naming names) that are focused on the fact that Ron keeps improving - the fifteen steps up. And there are others that are focused on the fact that Ron keeps regressing, and I admit to getting caught up in that because its so easy to see how much damage Ron does to the team - the 18 steps back.

But the key is, net-net, every cycle leaves the Pacers in worse condition than when they started. Perhaps it would be more obvious to some of you if it were two steps up and five steps back - that would put us in the same net-net position without the illusion (delusion) of great but fleeting improvement.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2004, 01:11 PM
I imagine this has been brought up at some point already (so please forgive me), but after the most recent incident, would those of you that are fed up with Ron consider changing your stance if he ever accepted diagnosis/medication?
You want an honest answer?

A couple of years ago, maybe. I'm too bitter now - he'd have to not cause any disruptions of any type for several consecutive seasons now before I would even try to warm up to him again.

dannyboy
12-14-2004, 01:26 PM
You want an honest answer?

A couple of years ago, maybe. I'm too bitter now - he'd have to not cause any disruptions of any type for several consecutive seasons now before I would even try to warm up to him again.

That is fair, at this point.

stipo
12-14-2004, 01:26 PM
:meditate:

;)

Los Angeles
12-14-2004, 01:42 PM
I think the most important thing to remember when we talk about Artest, is to keep it all in the past tense. Ron WAS a distraction. Ron WAS a great defender. Ron USED TO be a problem.

He's not in uniform and he's no longer even on the Pacers' payroll. Ron is dead to us until training camp 05.

Remember this: if we win the championship this year (one can dream) and the suspensions hold, Ron would not be fitted for a ring. He knows it, his teammates know it, and we know it too.

Ron WAS a nice guy ... Ron WAS a pacer ...

bballboy1
12-14-2004, 02:02 PM
RON WILL PLAY AGAIN THIS SEASON.

TheSauceMaster
12-14-2004, 02:02 PM
thinks of this pharase " Don't Judge a man til you have walked in his shoes" or something like that ;)

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 02:42 PM
I think the most important thing to remember when we talk about Artest, is to keep it all in the past tense. Ron WAS a distraction. Ron WAS a great defender. Ron USED TO be a problem.

He's not in uniform and he's no longer even on the Pacers' payroll. Ron is dead to us until training camp 05.

Remember this: if we win the championship this year (one can dream) and the suspensions hold, Ron would not be fitted for a ring. He knows it, his teammates know it, and we know it too.

Ron WAS a nice guy ... Ron WAS a pacer ...

Are you trying to push me over the edge

Los Angeles
12-14-2004, 03:23 PM
Are you trying to push me over the edgeHaHaHa

No, I'm just trying to face "reality". I support Ron and think his suspension was severe. But he's out for the rest of the season, and we have no reason to think otherwise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only the 12 on the playoff roster get rings.

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 03:34 PM
My understanding is that the team can decide to give rings to whoever they want. Coaches, and asistant coaches get them, traded players and newly acquired players cn get them.

Los Angeles
12-14-2004, 03:41 PM
Hmmm ... now I'm not so sure. I omitted the coaching staff, my fault for not being clear - I was talking about the players only. As far as the players are concerned, I wonder if there's any way of finding out? Are there any examples of players who were not on a team's playoff roster, but got a ring anyway?

pb777
12-14-2004, 04:29 PM
OK, I'm gonna say this once and dont ask who I am or how I know unless you already know me.
Ron is 99.999% of the time a very nice, polite, kind-hearted person. He would go out of his way to help a complete stranger in duress. He has little to no ego. I would even say that of all the Pacers and players in the NBA Ron is the absolute most humble. He does community service like this camp because he likes doing it, not becasue he has to. He likes the feeling of helping others, mainly b/c while growing up people helped him. I'm telling you, on a personal level he is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. Ron has helped me out on several different occaisions, even risking himself to help. Cant elaborate, but just so you know.

It is so unfortunate that he is labeled and stereotyped the way he is. Given, Nov 19 was bad, really bad, but also so out of character of Ron. Some of you have pointed out something reguarding the brawl - that Ron wasnt hitting that first fan. I'll confirm it, he wasnt. He grabbed him, shoved him down and got in his face saying "were you the one that threw it, did u throw the cup??"

I know that we are all sick of talking about him. There are no excuses for his actions and he will serve his sentence. But before you judge him as a person - just know that Ron is the kind of person anyone would feel comfortable around. He needs help managing his emotions on the court, true. Off the court he is just like me and you.

pb777
12-14-2004, 04:37 PM
Bull. I can't drop what I'm doing and have a money fight like Scrooge the Duck anytime I want.

:lol:
huh? believe what you want, doesnt make me a bit of difference

pb777
12-14-2004, 04:44 PM
Oh, never saw that comic:confused: No harm done:D

obnoxiousmodesty
12-14-2004, 04:54 PM
Did you just reference DuckTales? Wow, what a blast from the past.

Many accounts characterize Ronnie as a good man. I don't know him on a personal level so I cannot make any determination on my own. He's made a lot of mistakes on the basketball court; most, of course, have been small, but this one was huge. It's simply hard to reconcile on-the-court transgressions with the off-the-court benevolence.

Unclebuck
12-14-2004, 04:57 PM
Thanks pb777, I appreciate you saying that.

Hicks
12-14-2004, 05:24 PM
OK, I'm gonna say this once and dont ask who I am or how I know unless you already know me.
Ron is 99.999% of the time a very nice, polite, kind-hearted person. He would go out of his way to help a complete stranger in duress. He has little to no ego. I would even say that of all the Pacers and players in the NBA Ron is the absolute most humble. He does community service like this camp because he likes doing it, not becasue he has to. He likes the feeling of helping others, mainly b/c while growing up people helped him. I'm telling you, on a personal level he is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. Ron has helped me out on several different occaisions, even risking himself to help. Cant elaborate, but just so you know.

It is so unfortunate that he is labeled and stereotyped the way he is. Given, Nov 19 was bad, really bad, but also so out of character of Ron. Some of you have pointed out something reguarding the brawl - that Ron wasnt hitting that first fan. I'll confirm it, he wasnt. He grabbed him, shoved him down and got in his face saying "were you the one that threw it, did u throw the cup??"

I know that we are all sick of talking about him. There are no excuses for his actions and he will serve his sentence. But before you judge him as a person - just know that Ron is the kind of person anyone would feel comfortable around. He needs help managing his emotions on the court, true. Off the court he is just like me and you. To those that get mad at me or others who say it, THIS, aside from it being said from Chicago media before, and me hearing it anyway from trusted people, THIS is why I say "Ron had mental health issues."

Why? Because I believe every word he^ just said. I honestly do. That tells me that something is wrong with this man's mental health to cause him to have all these incidents/distractions/insert-pet-word-heres. I've heard from many many people the kinds of things pb is saying now, and I believe it. To me, that SCREAMS a mental health problem. Someone with an attitude and character like Ron Artest genuinely seems to have (a really good person), just doesn't go around doing the plethora of things Ronnie has done. They just don't. I don't say it to insult him, to put him down, mock him, etc. I say it because I'm trying to explain to myself (et al) what the problem is. I think this is it.

In fact, if I knew he would be willing to participate in whatever therapy and medications the Pacers' doctors prescribed to him, and he stuck with it and it worked, I'd want him on this team 100%.

Arcadian
12-14-2004, 05:42 PM
I have heard not but great things about Ron's giving nature. That comforted me two seasons ago. The personal stories have begun to mean less to me, now. As long continues to have a pattern of screwing up on court it doesn't matter. He is still hurting the Pacers.

I like him. I think he is a great guy. But that is begining to factor less and less in my desire (or lack there of) to see him in a Pacer uniform.

By the way does anyone know if this recent episode has made a difference in his attitude in seeking help. Is he recieving anger managment or any other avenue for help?

pb777
12-14-2004, 05:57 PM
Hicks - the more i think about it, the more your post makes sense. There is a problem with the theory though. Say he does go on meds. I've been on meds before and they change you, the way you think, the way in which you respond, they alter your mind and some make you feel sedated. If he were to go on meds I would almost bet that his reaction time would be a slower. His entire game would change. dunno, maybe they have meds out there that dont affect reaction time and on-court speed. any ideas??

DisplacedKnick
12-14-2004, 06:17 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever that Ron's a nice guy. In fact, from what everyone's said about him, I'm absolutely certain of it.

However his on-court behavior is CONSISTENTLY at odds with what everyone says he's like off the court.

IMO he needs to find another vocation. I'm not a psychiatrist and don't even play one on TV but I just think when Ron gets going and the adrenaline's flowing that he responds entirely differently (and irrationally) from how he would otherwise. It's almost as if he gets drunk on his hormones and loses his inhibitions.

We can talk about meds but would a medicated Ron be the same Ron who's such a great player? Besides, there was a lot of talk (don't know if it's true or not) when he was first traded from the Bulls that one of the reasons they got rid of him was he wouldn't take prescriptions ordered by his doctor - anyone else remember that?

pb777
12-14-2004, 06:20 PM
I do remember hearing that. I think Ron even said it himself in an interview that he never took them. But if the meds mess with his game and speed can u blame him? I can see and understand both sides of this fence.

ChicagoJ
12-14-2004, 06:26 PM
I have no doubts whatsoever that Ron's a nice guy. In fact, from what everyone's said about him, I'm absolutely certain of it.

However his on-court behavior is CONSISTENTLY at odds with what everyone says he's like off the court.

IMO he needs to find another vocation. I'm not a psychiatrist and don't even play one on TV but I just think when Ron gets going and the adrenaline's flowing that he responds entirely differently (and irrationally) from how he would otherwise. It's almost as if he gets drunk on his hormones and loses his inhibitions.

We can talk about meds but would a medicated Ron be the same Ron who's such a great player? Besides, there was a lot of talk (don't know if it's true or not) when he was first traded from the Bulls that one of the reasons they got rid of him was he wouldn't take prescriptions ordered by his doctor - anyone else remember that?Have you not read that in any of the 353,200,052 times I've posted it? :devil:

TheSauceMaster
12-14-2004, 08:19 PM
PB, that is a great post. Like Jay said that is what gets me. He is able to go from a gentle kind guy to a monster right back to a regular guy. It just blows my mind.......

Let me Step in here and no I am not a Doctor but I had a Intresting Session with My Therapist today and he knows I love the Pacers and I like Ron Artest. I told him I believe that Ron suffers from a Mental Illness and he Agreed , some of you may have heard me mention before I have "Bi Polar Disorder"

I said to him I believe Ron Has a Form of BI Polar Disorder , there are 2 Diffrent types of Bi Polar Disorder and I have the more serious one , He agreed with me that Ron is probably Bi Polar and no I am not a Doctor but I think I can speak well on the Subject and I do Speak at meetings to others who have it.


If you don't know about Bi Polar Disorder or have experinced someone who has had it I can see where comment's like VA * not picking on you just using what was said as a prime example of how people don't understand a disorder than can be life crippling. The is no cure for Bi Polar Disorder you have it for life , yes you can overcome it with meds and proper therapy but it ain't as easy as saying okay I am gonna do this.

I will say this there are some combo's of meds that will make you like a zombie I have been on a few myself , it took me 1 real good doctor and 3 years of trying diffrent cocktail's as they refer to them to get a combo of meds that didn't make me feel terriable. The problem is most people don't have the patience to go through this and frustration sets in at a point and most of them just give up , I know I did several times.

I was just like Ron 6 years ago I almost lost my family , wife , kids , friends and so much more because I scared everyone with the described behaviour above. One min I was happy as a lark and the next min I would be in a uncontrolable ranting rage , then 5-10 mins later I was fine. I see alot of things in Ron's behaviour that remind me of myself when I was really stuggling.

I think if you spoke to my friends and family they would say the same about me as your hearing about Ron , very kind hearted guy. I could stop taking my meds today and I could make it for alittle while without them but all it would take is one small little bit of stress and I would implode like a nuclear meltdown , trust me I have done it before and it ain't fun. I am not proud or trying to make excuses for myself or anyone it's just a personal experince and trust me I did some crazy ***** I would never do in a million years and I am not proud of those things.

Not only do I have bi polar disorder but I have adhd also which is common that they go hand in hand with each other there are alot of people that have both like myself which even makes it 10 times harder for me. It's taken me 3 years to turn my life around and it's something I wish I would have done years ago when I first found out some 10 years ago. I guess you would say I was in denial just like a alcoholic or a drug addict I didn't want to accept that I had something that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

I guess if anything this is why I still support Ron and if the Pacers trade him I will defintely follow Ron where he goes , I hope he really really sees he needs help and I wish there was a way I could send him a letter or let him know someone still believes in him. I was at a point where I gave up cause people didn't understand or believe in me anymore .

I dunno I was hoping this would bring alittle positiveness to Ron but it seems like everyone would rather look at the neagative than anything positive he's done.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depressive illness, is a brain disorder that causes unusual shifts in a person's mood, energy, and ability to function. Different from the normal ups and downs that everyone goes through, the symptoms of bipolar disorder are severe. They can result in damaged relationships, poor job or school performance, and even suicide.

"Manic-depression distorts moods and thoughts, incites dreadful behaviors, destroys the basis of rational thought, and too often erodes the desire and will to live. It is an illness that is biological in its origins, yet one that feels psychological in the experience of it; an illness that is unique in conferring advantage and pleasure, yet one that brings in its wake almost unendurable suffering and, not infrequently, suicide."

What Are the Symptoms of Bipolar Disorder?

Bipolar disorder causes dramatic mood swings—from overly "high" and/or irritable to sad and hopeless, and then back again, often with periods of normal mood in between. Severe changes in energy and behavior go along with these changes in mood. The periods of highs and lows are called episodes of mania and depression.
Signs and symptoms of mania (or a manic episode) include:

* Increased energy, activity, and restlessness
* Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood
* Extreme irritability
* Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another
* Distractibility, can't concentrate well
* Little sleep needed
* Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers
* Poor judgment
* Spending sprees
* A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual
* Increased sexual drive
* Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications
* Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
* Denial that anything is wrong


If you would like to learn more about Bi Polar Disorder please go here
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

TheSauceMaster
12-14-2004, 08:22 PM
Famous People and Bipolar Disorder

(Manic Depression)

Buzz Aldrin, Astronaut

Shecky Greene, Comedian, Actor

Brian Wilson, Musician, Composer (Beach Boys)

Gordon Sumner (Sting), Musician, Composer

Ned Beatty, Actor

Linda Hamilton, Actor

Art Buchwald, Writer, Humorist

Kristin Hersh, Musician

Sol Wachtler, Judge, Writer

Margot Kidder, Actress

Tim Burton, artist, movie director

Daniel Johnston, musician

Robert Campeau, financier

Bill Lichtenstein, producer (TV & radio)

Dick Cavett, writer, media personality

Kevin McDonald, comedian, actor

Rosemary Clooney, singer

Kristy McNichol, actor

Francis Ford Coppola, director

Jay Marvin, radio personality, writer

Patricia Cornwell, writer

Kate Millett, writer, artist

Ray Davies, musician

Spike Milligan, comic actor, writer

Patty Duke (Anna Duke Pearce), actor, writer

Dimitri Mihalas, scientist

Robert Evans, film producer

Jonathan Winters, comedian, actor, writer

Carrie Fisher, writer, actor

Lili Taylor, actor

Larry Flynt, magazine publisher

Dimitri Mihalas, scientist

Connie Francis, actor, musician

John Mulheren, financier

Kaye Gibbons, writer

Ilie Nastase, athlete (tennis), politician

Nicola Pagett, actor

Jimmie Piersall, athlete (baseball), announcer

Charley Pride, musician

Jeannie C. Riley, musician

Axl Rose, musician

Francesco Scavullo, artist, photographer

Margo Orum, writer

Lori Schiller, writer, educator

Murray Pezim, financier

Frances Sherwood, writer

Alys Robi, vocalist

Muffin Spencer-Devlin, athlete (pro golf)

Mark Vonnegut, doctor, writer

Sol Wachtler, judge, writer

Robin Williams - Actor


Famous People and
Attention Deficit Disorder

Ansel Adams (1902-1984) — Photographer

Ann Bancroft — (1931-present) — Actress

Alexander Graham Bell — (1862-1939) — Telephone Inventor

Harry Andersen — (1952-present) — Actor

Hans Christian Anderson — (1805-1875) — Author

Beethoven — (1770-1827) — Composer

Harry Belafonte — (1927-present) — Actor, Vocalist

Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington — (1912-1988)
WWII Flying Ace (Black Sheep Squadron Leader)

Terry Bradshaw — (1948-Present) — Football Quarterback

George Burns — (1896-1996) — Actor

Sir Richard Francis Burton — (1821-1890)
Explorer, Linguist, Scholar, Writer

Admiral Richard Byrd — (1888-1957) — Aviator
(Was retired from the navy as, "Unfit for service")

Thomas Carlyle — (1795-1881)
Scottish historian, critic, and sociological writer

Andrew Carnegie - (1835-1919) Industialist

Jim Carrey — (1962-present) — Comedian

Lewis Carroll — (1832-1898) — Author (Alice in Wonderland)

Prince Charles — (1948-present) — Future King of England

Cher (1946-present)— Actress/Singer

Agatha Christie — (1890-1976) — Author

Winston Churchill — (1874-1965) — Statesman (Failed the sixth grade)

Bill Cosby — (1937-present) — Actor

Tom Cruise — (1962-present) — Actor

Harvey Cushing M.D. — (1869-1939)
Greatest Neurosurgeon of the 20th Century

Salvador Dali — (1904-1989) —Artist

Leonardo da Vinci — (1452-1519) — Inventor, Artist

John Denver — (1943-1997) — Musician

Walt Disney — (1901-1971)
(A newspaper editor fired him because he had "No good ideas".)

Kirk Douglas — (1916-present) — Actor

Thomas Edison — (1847-1931) — Inventor
(His teachers told him he was too stupid to learn anything)

Albert Einstein — (1879-1955) — Physicist
(Famous Tongue Sticking Out Picture)
(Einstein was four years old before he could speak,
and seven before he could read)

Dwight D. Eisenhower — (1890-1969) — U. S. President, Military General

Michael Faraday — (1791-1867) — British Physicist, Chemist

F. Scott Fitzgerald — (1896-1940) — Author

Malcolm Forbes — (1919-1990) — Forbes Magazine Founder & Publisher

Henry Ford — (1863-1947) — Automobile Innovator

Benjamin Franklin — (1706 - 1790) — Politician, Elder Statesman

Galileo (Galilei) — (1564-1642) — Mathematician, Astronomer

Danny Glover — (1947-present) — Actor

Tracey Gold — (1969-present) — Actress

Whoopi Goldberg — (1955-present) — Actress

Georg Frideric Handel — (1685-1759) — Composer

Valerie Hardin — Gothic Poet, Artist, Children's Author

Mariette Hartley — (1940-present)
Actress (Tells of her and daughter's ADD)

William Randolph Hearst — (1863-1951) — Newspaper Magnate

Ernest Hemingway — (1899-1961) — Author

Mariel Hemingway — (1961) — Actress

Milton Hershey — "The Chocolate King" — (1857-1945)

Dustin Hoffman — (1937-present) — Actor

Bruce Jenner — (1949-present) — Athlete

Luci Baines Johnson (1947-present) — LBJ's Daughter

"Magic" Johnson — (1959-present) — Basketball Player

Samuel Johnson — Author

Michael Jordan — (1963-present) — Basketball Player

John F. Kennedy — (1917-1963) — U. S. President

Robert F. Kennedy — (1925-1968) — U.S. Attorney General

Jason Kidd — (1973-present) — Professional Basketball Player

John Lennon — (1940-1980) — Musician

Frederick Carlton (Carl) Lewis — (1961-present)
Olympic Gold Metalist, American track-and-field athlete.

Meriwether Lewis (Lewis & Clark) — (1774 -1809) — Explorer

Abraham Lincoln — (1809-1865) — U.S. President
(Entered The Black Hawk War as a Captain and came out a Private)

Greg Louganis — (1960-present) — Olympic Gold Medalist (Diving)

James Clerk Maxwell — (1831-1879) — British Physicist

Steve McQueen — (1930-1980) — Actor

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart — (1756-1791) — Composer

Napoleon Bonaparte — (1769-1873) — Emperor

Nasser (Gamal Abdel-nasser) — (1918-1970) — Egyptian Leader

Sir Issac Newton —(1642-1727) — Scientist, Mathematician
(Did poorly in grade school)

Nostradamus — (1503-1566) — Physician, Prophet

Ozzy Osbourne — (1948-present) — said he was ADHD on TV

Louis Pasteur — (1822-1895) — Scientist
(Rated as mediocre in chemistry when he attended the Royal College)

General George Patton — (1885-1945) — Military

Pablo Picasso — (1882-1973) — Artist

Edgar Allan Poe — (1809-1849) — Author, Poet

Rachmaninov — (1873-1943) — Composer

Eddie Rickenbacker — (1890-1973) — WWI Flying Ace

John D. Rockefeller — (1839-1937)
Founder, Standard Oil Company

Nelson Rockefeller — (1908-1979) — U.S. Vice President

August Rodin — (1840-1917) — Artist, Sculptor

Anna Eleanor Roosevelt — (1844-1962) — First Lady

Pete Rose — (1941-present) — Baseball Player

Babe Ruth — (1895-1948) — Baseball Legend

Nolan Ryan — (1947-present) — Baseball Player

Muhammad Anwar al-Sadat — (1918-1981) — Egyptian President
Nobel Peace Prize Winner in 1976

George C. Scott — (1927-present) — Actor

George Bernard Shaw — (1856-1950)—Author

Will Smith — Actor, Rapper, Entertainer

Tom Smothers — (1937-present) — Actor, Singer, Entertainer

Socrates — (469-399 B.C.) — Philosopher

Suzanne Somers — (1946-present) — Actress

Steven Spielberg — (1946-present) — Filmmaker

Sylvester Stallone — (1946-present) — Actor

Jackie Stewart — (1939-present) — Grand Prix Hall of Famer

James Stewart — (1908-1997) — Actor

Henry David Thoreau — (1817-1862) — Author

(Lev Nikolayevich) Leo Tolstoy — (1828-1910) — Russian Author
(Flunked out of college)

Alberto Tomba — (1966-present) — Italian Alpine Ski Champion

Vincent van Gogh — (1853-1890) — Artist

Russell Varian — (1899-1959) — Inventor

Jules Verne — (1828-1905) — Author

Werner von Braun — (1912-1977) — Rocket Scientist
Flunked 9th grade algebra.

Lindsay Wagner — (1949-present) — Actress (Bionic Woman)

Gen. William C. Westmoreland — (1914-present) — Military (Vietnam Era)

Robin Williams — (1952-present) — Comedian

Woodrow Wilson — (1856-1924) — U. S. President

Henry Winkler — (1945-present) — Actor (Fonzie)

Stevie Wonder — (1950-present ) — Musician

F. W. Woolworth — (1852-1919) — Department Store Innovator
(While working in a dry goods store at 21, his employers wouldn't let him
wait on a customer because he "Didn't have enough sense.")

Frank Lloyd Wright — (1867-1959) — Architect

Orville Wright — (1871-1948) — Airplane Developer

Wilber Wright — (1867-1912) — Airplane Developer

William Wrigley, Jr. — (1933-1999) — Chewing Gum Maker

William Butler Yeats — (1865-1939) Irish Author

TheSauceMaster
12-14-2004, 10:35 PM
vapacersfan , thanks for sharing ;)

I am not a doctor ethier but I know what I went through and I was in deep denial , infact I didn't really wake up til oneday my wife video taped me and showed me. I didn't realize how outta control was and to be honest I didn't remember and when I seen that it made me wake up.

Everyday is a diffrent day for me I never know how the day is gonna go and someday's I can't even stand people in general , it's very hard for me because everyday I dread sometimes because it's sometimes just too much.

I guess more than anything I was trying to give alittle information and try to explain a few things on how it's possiable.

Peck
12-15-2004, 04:18 AM
What does any of this have to do with the fact that if the ball goes through Jermaine O'Neal to much he rebels even if the team is winning?

What does any of this have to do with the fact that if he is bored with the offense that Carlisle designs he decides to go on his own?

What does any of this have to do with the fact that he sometimes feels that if he hasn't fouled enough in a game he is entitled to get a good hard foul in? BTW, those are his words not mine.

What does any of this have to do with the fact that if a defender is scorching him all night long he feels the need to physically hurt them?

You see, I'm rare on here. I have problems with the off-court stuff & from what we have been told there is a ton of problems with Ron & Jermaine & I've heard that from more than one person. But I have huge huge problems with the stuff the guy does on the court as well.

I don't care if I'm talking about Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant or Ron Artest. I do not like players who think that they are bigger than the team & yes IMO there are times that Ron thinks he is bigger than the team.

Again, these are just my opinions I know nothing more than any of you.

But btw, I know of one person here who has stated that he has seen the other side of Mr. Artest. The not so nice off-court persona that isn't talked about here. I will not elaborate on this because it is up to him if he wants to talk about it because he has done this in the day to day workings of his job so if he wants to say what it is then I'll let him. But I've known him for about 9 years & I know he is not a liar.