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View Full Version : Odd thoughts from the moral victory....



Peck
12-12-2004, 01:51 AM
Ok, honestly a show of hands, how many of you really thought the Pacers would compete going into the game with the Kings? I had this one marked an L already in my mind before we went in.

The title of this odd thought is kind of misleading because really at this point there are no more moral victorys. But if anything would qualify I guess this would be it. A Reggie three or an Austin Three or anybody else helping with the offense in the OT (did anybody score in Ot besides Cro?, I'm not really sure right now) & it's possible that we walk away with a W. But sadly the reality is we are now officially a .500% ball club.

Before I go any further who was the new P.A. man tonight? I didn't recognize him at all. Did anybody else catch him saying Henry Bibby instead of Mike?

This game had it's rollercoaster moments for sure. I pretty much gauge home games anymore by the way JOneal7's dispostion is during the game. Early on he looked suicidal, I thought if he could get a rope he'd hang himself. Then as the game progressed the hat not only got a sideways crook it got the tilt which I've come to beleive that it means he is intensly into the game & then at the end he got cocky to early & pulled the cap backwards. Then we blow overtime & he looks suicidal again. :D

The fans. Kind of stale tonight. Decent size, but they certainly didn't pull the team through like they had in the past. They got involved in the end but most of the night they set on their hands. I'll give them a C.

I don't know that I understand Carlisle's thinking on his starting lineup. I don't know that we can have just Reggie Miller on the floor as the only reliable offense to start the game. Either Fred or Austin (IMO) needs to be in there to make the team have more balance. I don't know that you want your leading scorers being from the bench.

Harrison sure likes to block shots. I think I should just cut & past the same thing about him for every game. I just can't get to upset with the guy for almost anything because the expectations were so low for him. I just wish he'd improve his rebounding. But he is still a rookie. He is developing a face up jumper that he has been hitting with some consistancy. I thought he did a very good job of frustrating Brad early in the game with his size.

As a side note this is the worst game Brad has ever had against the Pacers. Isn't that sad. The worst game is still a double/double & the game winning freethrows. But I thought he didn't play all that well against anybody. Harrison, Foster & Croshere all bothered him on defense last night.

Foster. I don't want to nit pick but he should have only had 17 rebounds. I have no idea why but a board that clearly Austin pulled down off of a missed freethrow was given to Foster for no reason. But isn't that something he should have only had 17 rebounds instead of 18? That's pretty d@mn good going against Brad & Webber. He gets his boards like Camby but they are boards none the less. I thought he did an outstanding job on Webber defensivly in the fourth. I didn't see where people thought he was out of it at the end because I thought he had a lot of energy on defense but was being kept off of the boards by Brad down towards the end.

Reggie. He tried. Christie is a very good defender & doesn't fall for a lot of Reggie's tricks. But you live by the sword you die by the sword. 9 three point attempts to me is a little much. I would like to have seen him drive a little. But I thought he tried to do all of the other things that win ballgames. We just didn't get it done.

A.J. Solid & unspectacular. Like I've said before as a backup he's damn good. He just isn't a starter & at the end of the 4th you could tell our team had no idea of what to do on offense. But he still had double figure points & 6 assist. However I thought Bibby was just killing him, which there is no shame in cause Mike is pretty dang good himself.

James Jones. He's starting to move towards the basket & that is a good thing. But you can tell he is not really used to playing inside our offensive structure. He just doesn't seem to know where to be on the floor at certain times. But again this is really the first year he has had min. so how can you fault the guy?

Fred. This was like a box of chocolates last night. His driving ability had them on their heels a few times. However there was a point at the end of regulation that I honest to God thought Travis Best was back out there. He dribbled it in then out then back in & then dished to A.J. who was covered who then threw it to poor Cro who had to chuck it up with like .4 sec. left on the shot clock. I like his ability to drive & he sure gets his share of blocks for a short player but that damn near killed us when he did that.

Cro. I don't even know what to say. Carlisle said the other day that the nice thing about this team is that some of his players are willing to do whatever is best for the team. Poor Cro is going to be screwed by his own goodness. This is a guy who I think is leading our team in scoring & rebounding (I think) since all of this crap happened & in about two months he will be getting about 15-20 min. a game tops. Already last night he was relagated to 7th man. I don't care what you wanna think about Foster or whoever, it's just not right for this guy to bust his @ss like he has & then to be dumped when J.O. & Jax come back. I know they won't but I would hope that when everybody gets back that they move Austin to a team that will start him if that's what he wants. I know in the past he has asked to be moved. Which brings me to a question. Why is it some players ask for movement & get it while others they won't move. Dale, Al, Tony all ask for a trade bang their gone. Austin has been here for four years after asking for his. Oh well, I thought he did splendid again. led the team in scoring got solid boards & was the only Pacer (I think) to score in O.T.

Not that I really care, but why isn't Bender required to attend the home games? I notice Jamaal & Pollard there & both were very active supporters on the bench. Yet Bender is a no show. I'm just curious, not that it would make a differance.

The main thing now is for the guys to keep their heads up & keep pushing on. We're not that far away from being a decent team. Not a title contender certainly but with the talent we have right now we should be able to compete. Let's get a few practices under our belts with the whole team & just go at it again.

I was proud of the team, but I do realize that pride will only go so far. I still enjoy going to the games & I still enjoy Pacers basketball.

JOneal7
12-12-2004, 02:18 AM
hahahahha...That's funny..lol
that new announcer also said "2 For Jackson!" And I had a flashback..OMG It WAS A DREAM! Then woke up and realized he meant johnson :(...I gotta Get my JO authentic fixed (Stupid idiot marked it with black sharpie)..That is why we are losing! We always win if I wear it. Bender was there...I saw him drive out as I was leaving..he gave me a peace sign cause I was like "WASUP JB!" I think he might have been on the practice court.

DID ANYONE SEE THAT RAINBOW SHOT BY BIBBY? HE JUST THREW IT UP IT SEEMED LIKE. ALL BOTTOM! I WAS LIKE AHHH THIS ISN'T OUR NIGHT :(

Hoop
12-12-2004, 03:09 AM
Good post as always, Peck.

The P.A. guy was none other than Jerry Baker, you know the guy that did Pacer games before Al Albert came along. Baker would always get the player's names wrong, the bad thing is Albert's maybe worse. At least Baker always seemed to really care about the Pacers, Albert's is just plain annoying.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2004, 04:42 AM
I like David Harrison more and more, each game, even when he struggles, he is learning. The kid is going to be good.

Over the summer I joked about not missing Brad anymore, because we have David. Well now it's really true, for me. I love watching this guy play.

JOneal7
12-12-2004, 05:01 AM
I agree...David hit some shots I didn't think he would. I think he needs to work on conditioning and his ball handling skills. Also realize he's a rookie and will get NO CALLS so stop complaining and play ball.

Unclebuck
12-12-2004, 09:22 AM
Jerry Baker was horrible on the Tv broadcast and he is even worse as a PA guy.

Peck, I have re-read the part of your post on Cro and Foster, and I guess I see some kind words for Jeff in there, reading between the llines.

Cro is not the 7th man right now, that is just crazy. If he were 100% healthy he would ikely play more athan anyone. But as Rick said after the game he thought Cro broke his leg tonight. Cro should not be playing, he has a cracked rib, sprained ankle now, cracked bone in his hand, some other injury I forget. Clearly Cro is ahead of Harrison in the rotation, look at the minutes Cro played last night and if he were healthy he would have played a lot more.

Pacers did not trade Cro because the pacers could not get a good deal for him. If someone wants to trade the Pacers the 5th pck in the draft or a rising star like Kwame Brown (similar to J.O ) for Cro, the Pacers would have trade Cro.

Peck
12-12-2004, 09:37 AM
Jerry Baker was horrible on the Tv broadcast and he is even worse as a PA guy.

Peck, I have re-read the part of your post on Cro and Foster, and I guess I see some kind words for Jeff in there, reading between the llines.

Cro is not the 7th man right now, that is just crazy. If he were 100% healthy he would ikely play more athan anyone. But as Rick said after the game he thought Cro broke his leg tonight. Cro should not be playing, he has a cracked rib, sprained ankle now, cracked bone in his hand, some other injury I forget. Clearly Cro is ahead of Harrison in the rotation, look at the minutes Cro played last night and if he were healthy he would have played a lot more.

Pacers did not trade Cro because the pacers could not get a good deal for him. If someone wants to trade the Pacers the 5th pck in the draft or a rising star like Kwame Brown (similar to J.O ) for Cro, the Pacers would have trade Cro.

Starting five.

Foster
Harrison
J.Jones
Miller
Johnson

First man, thus the sixth man, off of the bench was Fred Jones. Seventh man was Austin. So by technical definition I am correct.

However I hope you are correct but I am doubting it more & more every game. I'm just afraid that once everybody gets back Cro will go back to being a seldom used bench player.

BTW, you think that they were holding out for the 5th pick in the draft or a Kwame Brown, or S. Jackson? Wow, even I don't think Cro would have brought you that in the past & I'm not even sure he would bring that now.

As to Foster, I really liked his defense in the fourth quarter on Webber. He did a very good job. I don't think he lost his effectiveness at all. He only got two rebounds past the third quarter & I don't think it was a let down as much as it was the Kings specifically zoning him out of the boards. I would take that as a compliment if I were you. But on the down side, just like Dale did with Camby, Brad was able to do with Jeff. He put an active body on him at all times & it paid off. But that did alter the Kings game & if either Reggie or Austin hit their three's then it would have bit them in the butt.

Now let's talk about Austin & his injury's. Again, not naming any names here :cool: , would every player on our team play through this pain & injury? I'm guessing there is one player who would already have gone on the I.R.L. long ago. No names though. ;)

Austin has all of these problems & he still leads us in scoring & gets a good # of boards. I just don't see how you can not like the guy.

Unclebuck
12-12-2004, 09:48 AM
I like Croshere, he has been great through all of this.

Peck, when everyone cames back, by that I mean, J.O and Jax, and maybe Pollard. (if Bender or God willing, Artest comes back that is another story) Croshere will get regular minutes each and every game. Probably around 20 minutes per game at least, likely more in certain games. DH will get very few minutes, Pollard will get few minutes, but mark my words Cro will get a lot of minutes, in certain games he'll get more than Jeff.

Peck, Jeff could barely run amidway through the 4th quarter on he was gased, I thought he had re-injured his hip or something.


Pedck, I brought up the 5th pick in the draft and Kwame Brown because that is basicvally what DD and AD were traded for, the other two players who asked to be traded, I forgot to mention AL who was traded for Jax. I am certain the pacers would have traded CRo for anyone near that cailber of player. But when Rick came aboard, I think Cro wanted to stay and we know Rick likes Cro and we also know Cro fits very well into Rick's system.

Peck
12-12-2004, 09:59 AM
I guess I just didn't see Jeff hobling. As you know I hate my new seats so I'll take your word for it.

I still thought he was effective in the 4th & the O.T.

One thing though, neither Austin or Jeff are good shot blockers & thus both really leave us vulnerable to penatration.

Unclebuck
12-12-2004, 10:03 AM
Peck, there is no doubt that Jeff and Cro are much more effective with J.O on the floor. Although I thought they made a nice combo last night.

Ragnar
12-12-2004, 10:04 AM
I agree that Cro should be starting right now but how do you argue with 17 rebounds! Of course I think Foster and Cro should be starting right now because they play well together.

I dont think Cro is going to drop too low in minutes. I see him getting Al Harrington type of minutes off the bench. He will play both backup pf and c rather than pf and sf. I think Harrison will spend less time on the floor rather than Cro. The reason Harrison is not getting more rebounds is that his arms are very short. It is almost painfully to watch him go up for a rebound and see a shorter player simply out reach him.

Rick likes to keep players in their normal rotation and I think we are seeing Harrison start in Jermaine's slot until Jermaine returns (which I think the Pacers think will be sooner rather than latter the NBA has already said they would be open to reducing his suspension). On top of that they said that Rick was bringing him off the bench to limit his minutes because they need him so bad right now. He is injured and they are worried that he will get worse. Can you imagine doing what this guy is doing with broken ribs. I think Cro deserves the Warrior tag, he may not be the intimidating beast that Dale was but he is out there in pain playing better than most of the healthy people in the league.

I thought Gill played pretty well last night and we put on a nice run when he was in. I will give Johnson credit he played a fairly sold game last night. There were stretches where he played the way I always expect him to play but there were other times he played above my (VERY VERY LOW) expectations.

I do like the idea of starting J.J. he has a good shot is taller than F.J. and is a good rebounder. He got several Cro/Foster sort of rebounds last night and that is very good for the team. I just wish we could run some more plays for him since he can shoot the ball very well. Freddie is the better player right now but with him as the starting sf we are a short team.

SoupIsGood
12-12-2004, 11:40 AM
DH will get very few minutes.

:(

Arcadian
12-12-2004, 12:30 PM
Going into the season I thought we were thin up front and there would be mins for Cro. Even David's play has not changed my mind about that. Cro did not get traded because he was signed to one of the worst contracts in the NBA. That's not his fault. It ismaybe Donnie's but Cro should be too mad about that either.

Ragnar
12-12-2004, 12:34 PM
Can you really say that Cro has a terrible contract after watching him this last couple of weeks? Every game where he scores 20 points and grabs 10 rebounds I want to suffocate Isiah with a 44 jersey.

He could not be traded because of the perception that he was overpaid. He clearly is a very capable player who in the open market would easily command that salary had he not sat on the bench and played out of position for 3 years.

Arcadian
12-12-2004, 12:47 PM
Perception or not his contract made him hard to trade. I am happy that Cro is playing well.

Alabama-Redneck
12-12-2004, 01:52 PM
I agree Cro is playing better than he has been but remember, he is putting up those numbers on a losing team. When players with better athletic ability return, his minutes and numbers will slide.


Cro is a very good backup player but not a starter. IMO, if he starts and plays large minutes, the team will not win many games.

:cool:

Unclebuck
12-12-2004, 01:57 PM
I agree Cro is playing better than he has been but remember, he is putting up those numbers on a losing team. When players with better athletic ability return, his minutes and numbers will slide.


Cro is a very good backup player but not a starter. IMO, if he starts and plays large minutes, the team will not win many games.

:cool:


I agree.

Cro needs to be a role player, right now the pacers are simply needing him to do too much. In fact that is the case with all the players that are playing right now, none are capable of doing what needs to be done, but then that is why the pacers have players like, J.O. Ron, Jax and Tinsley. If just one of those guys had played the past 3 games the pacers win at least 2 and maybe 3