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Trophy
11-28-2012, 01:12 AM
Well worth staying up for.

My adrenaline is pumping. Not sure I'll be able to fall asleep tonight.

Romsey31
11-28-2012, 01:13 AM
Wowwwwwwww

rock747
11-28-2012, 01:14 AM
Man, if we could of only heald on against SA, we'd really be rolling right now.

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:15 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

Derek2k3
11-28-2012, 01:15 AM
Whats this? Hibbert being active despite foul trouble? George Hill being clutch?


We're seeing more and more of the team we all expected to see after last season. Things are certainly coming around.

joeyd
11-28-2012, 01:15 AM
Great win. There is now a good possibility that the team can come back with a winning record.

TMJ31
11-28-2012, 01:15 AM
YES!!!!!!!

This LA based Pacers die-hard will sleep happily tonight, and be swelling with pride around all my jackass Laker friends for weeks!

:gopacers:

Derek2k3
11-28-2012, 01:16 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

If that same call happened against Indiana, I'd be livid. Duhon certainly reached up into him, but me oh my was that a touchy call.

Bird Fan
11-28-2012, 01:16 AM
Can I get a .gif of Danny's strut/dance after Hill's buzzer beater?

xIndyFan
11-28-2012, 01:16 AM
nice game by Ian. Is it just me or does Dwight Howard look more like Clark Kent than Superman. So far there is a big step down from Orlando Howard to LAL Howard. He looks kind of like Amare after his first knee surgery. A real good player but that super athleticism just is gone.

Derek2k3
11-28-2012, 01:16 AM
YES!!!!!!!

This LA based Pacers die-hard will sleep happily tonight, and be swelling with pride around all my jackass Laker friends for weeks!

:gopacers:

3 years running...

Will Galen
11-28-2012, 01:17 AM
West was 2 assists away from a triple double. Kobe got one. He had 40 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 turnovers.

graphic-er
11-28-2012, 01:18 AM
Amazing Game, Hill is such a Gamer. Its like he just elevates for the biggest of moments. Chauncy Billups anyone?

I really thought with Kobe making that 3 at the end to tie it up and no Hibbert on the inside, the Lakers were bound to come back and take this from us.

I'm really surprised to see that they did not try to force feed Hibbert there in the 4th with Howard having 5 fouls.

We missed 10 FTs.....4 late in the 4th. Gotta clean that up.

rexnom
11-28-2012, 01:18 AM
West was 2 assists away from a triple double. Kobe got one. He had 40 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 turnovers.
In his defense, he literally had to do all the ball handling by the end. Everyone else looked scared to shoot.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 01:19 AM
:happydanc

rexnom
11-28-2012, 01:19 AM
By the way, it hasn't been a Jermaine O'Neal from Portland to SA growth but George Hill has really grown as a player here. Could you have imagined that he was this good when we traded for him? My lord.

rock747
11-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Whats this? Hibbert being active despite foul trouble? George Hill being clutch?


We're seeing more and more of the team we all expected to see after last season. Things are certainly coming around.

Now if we only had a bench...

rel
11-28-2012, 01:20 AM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=638&d=1354083515

just noticed KDot behind Pringles at the end lol. No worries dude, you still got AOTY :P

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:20 AM
This game was ****ing ugly. Best looking thing was Danny moving nicely to celebrate the final shot.

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:21 AM
638 just noticed KDot behind Pringles at the end lol. No worries dude, you still got AOTY :P

We killed his vibe.

BornReady
11-28-2012, 01:21 AM
I know we aren't supposed to get too high or low after a win or loss but...

WE WIN WE WIN HAHAHAHHA

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:21 AM
I don't think that was Sherane who was with Kendrick though.

Mr_Smith
11-28-2012, 01:21 AM
On an unrelated note, just saw on espn that this is the 20th anniversary of reggies 57 point game.

MvPlumlee
11-28-2012, 01:21 AM
A win is a win but boy, D'Antoni needs a training camp badly.

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:22 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

Haha I just noticed the tall goofy dude in a brown polo saying it's a charge in a funny way as well.

Trophy
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
That's Blue Collar-Gold Swagger...

http://i50.tinypic.com/zjgh3q.png

Sorry ESPN, one of your favorite teams in sports couldn't win!

:gopacers:

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
nice game by Ian. Is it just me or does Dwight Howard look more like Clark Kent than Superman. So far there is a big step down from Orlando Howard to LAL Howard. He looks kind of like Amare after his first knee surgery. A real good player but that super athleticism just is gone.

Yeah Howard is not looking good, he doesn't fit well on that team either Orlando had it right.

LoneGranger33
11-28-2012, 01:23 AM
Well worth staying up for.

100% disagree. I'm glad we won, but if I was given just one chance to go back in time, just one, I would use it to go back three hours and tell my past self to go to sleep - and I'd never regret that decision. Definitely one of the worst games I've ever felt the need to endure. It was a marathon of sloppy play and ****** calls. David West almost exploded. Like literally, the guy almost burst apart in an elusive televised display of spontaneous, rapid human combustion. Frank Vogel will undoubtedly wake up bald tomorrow. Every Pacer fan lost at least a year of his or her life, which, if this game is any indication of what's to come, might be a welcome respite from the torture that is this team. See you guys Friday.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 01:24 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

Cant stop watching this and grinning ear to ear.

joeyd
11-28-2012, 01:24 AM
Haha I just noticed the tall goofy dude in a brown polo saying it's a charge in a funny way as well.

Funny!

TheDon
11-28-2012, 01:24 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

lmao @ Kobe's reaction

rexnom
11-28-2012, 01:25 AM
Yeah Howard is not looking good, he doesn't fit well on that team either Orlando had it right.
What a weird trade that was. Hasn't really worked well for any of the teams involved.

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:25 AM
That's Blue Collar-Gold Swagger...

http://i50.tinypic.com/zjgh3q.png

Sorry ESPN, one of your favorite teams in sports couldn't win!

:gopacers:

Indiana basketball dominating the front page of ESPN.com

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:25 AM
West was just gassed at the end. He was easily on his way to a triple double with assists, but just kept taking really tough shots as his legs wore down. We stopped passing the ball altogether. This was a case of which players would make the necessary plays rather than the teams doing so. Hill came through big on those last two shots, though he had an open three a possession before that could have made it a little easier.

Everyone missed badly all game.

Fortunately, the Lakers other than MWP and Kobe could not give a mother**** about playing basketball. Gasol looks like he needs all the Valium and Dwight looks like he's posing for pictures instead of fighting inside. Sixty wins? Haha.

TMJ31
11-28-2012, 01:26 AM
Here's the stuff I deal with on a daily basis as a Pacers fan in LA:

https://twitter.com/TMJonsson/status/273670514608840704
Go ahead Twitter. Let "Kobe with 40" trend above George Hill, who just beat the Lakers with a buzzer beater. Lol. <s style="text-decoration: initial; color: rgb(221, 126, 129);">#</s>GoPacers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoPacers&src=hash)

And these replies start rolling in...

https://twitter.com/HoesDownGzUp/status/273672883530788864
<s style="text-decoration: initial; color: rgb(225, 174, 133);">@</s>TMJonsson (https://twitter.com/TMJonsson) foh dickhead he better than the whole pacers team , you ****ing white kobe hater,


Lol...

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 01:26 AM
lmao @ Kobe's reaction

it looks like crawford looks back at kobe like "i can over react too"

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:27 AM
I hated staying up for 44 minutes of that game but at the end we saw the Joey Crawford cripwalk, a game-winner from George Hill, and Kendrick Lamar. I'm pretty happy about that.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
11-28-2012, 01:27 AM
Great win! George Hill has ice water in his veins!

Pacers are slowly getting it together, this was a statement win.

On a side note, man this was a late game. It even kept me up past my bedtime here in AZ. Kudos to you diehards back in Indiana who stayed up to watch it!

Naptown_Seth
11-28-2012, 01:27 AM
I told Peck to stop sweating Ian's progress and early season woes. He's been starting to click and find some confidence in his role on the team. Once he gets his dribble protection up on his drives he'll be great.

Green looks good to me, just in a shooting slump. He cleared into nice mid range open space with ease off dribbles and just missed the shots.

Young made a couple of aggression errors on defense, and he's getting shy on offense due to misses, but otherwise he was very helpful on defense all night and badly needed due to fouls.



Roy was....a non factor. Half his points at least we created by Paul and David.


West's defensive effort was outstanding all night, and the dude just missed going trip dub and not a cheap one either. B A M F all night, dude loves contact before the shot.

Hill hasn't had the 3 going, but he was able to drive to the lane with ease, something Lance has been struggling to do.

Paul had a tough task and continues to be in and out of rhythm, but not that bad.

Lance needs to keep the 3pt shot because he's becoming less helpful on offense.

Tyler was painful to watch most of the night. Yes, a couple of hustle down rebounds but totally intimidated at the rim due to hops/height.


Did DJ play? Sheesh, I can't get over what a non-factor he continues to be.

TheDon
11-28-2012, 01:28 AM
Reporter: Tough night Kobe how do you feel?

Kobe: I scored 40 I feel fine

Reporter: Not to be negative but you also chucked up 30 shots and turned the ball over 10 times

Kobe: **rape stares reporter**

Trophy
11-28-2012, 01:28 AM
Indiana basketball dominating the front page of ESPN.com

Now I can rub it into UNC fans' faces!

Great night for Indiana sports.

Trophy
11-28-2012, 01:30 AM
100% disagree. I'm glad we won, but if I was given just one chance to go back in time, just one, I would use it to go back three hours and tell my past self to go to sleep - and I'd never regret that decision. Definitely one of the worst games I've ever felt the need to endure. It was a marathon of sloppy play and ****** calls. David West almost exploded. Like literally, the guy almost burst apart in an elusive televised display of spontaneous, rapid human combustion. Frank Vogel will undoubtedly wake up bald tomorrow. Every Pacer fan lost at least a year of his or her life, which, if this game is any indication of what's to come, might be a welcome respite from the torture that is this team. See you guys Friday.

:tongue:

Any win is well worth watching.

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:30 AM
Here's the stuff I deal with on a daily basis as a Pacers fan in LA:

https://twitter.com/TMJonsson/status/273670514608840704
Go ahead Twitter. Let "Kobe with 40" trend above George Hill, who just beat the Lakers with a buzzer beater. Lol. <s style="text-decoration: initial; color: rgb(221, 126, 129);">#</s>GoPacers (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoPacers&src=hash)

And these replies start rolling in...

https://twitter.com/HoesDownGzUp/status/273672883530788864
<s style="text-decoration: initial; color: rgb(225, 174, 133);">@</s>TMJonsson (https://twitter.com/TMJonsson) foh dickhead he better than the whole pacers team , you ****ing white kobe hater,


Lol...

How can you argue with a dude called Hoes Down Gz Up on Twitter?

Kind of a serious question actually.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 01:30 AM
What a weird trade that was. Hasn't really worked well for any of the teams involved.

It looks to me like they are going to need to make multiple trades, like I said before maybe Gasol for Andrea and Calderon or Gasol to Denver for Gallinari and other pieces? this Lakers team sucks.

rock747
11-28-2012, 01:31 AM
Pacers have a shot to go on a nice run here... have to keep focus...

TheDon
11-28-2012, 01:32 AM
Not to tone down the fun or anything on this game and ripping on the Lakers. But, I remember last year what happened when we were all so Happy with Roy leading us to victory against the Lakers only to follow it up by playing the kings next and getting absolutely murdered on the offensive glass. If I were Vogel that would be the first point I make coming off of this win with regard to the next opponent.

TMJ31
11-28-2012, 01:34 AM
How can you argue with a dude called Hoes Down Gz Up on Twitter?

Kind of a serious question actually.

Lol. Suppose you don't.

I just laughed it off. It's the quintessential ignorant Faker fan bullcrap.

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:34 AM
Every Pacer fan lost at least a year of his or her life,.

If it's just a year, I count myself lucky.

Peck
11-28-2012, 01:35 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

Everybody see's something different here. All I can see is the 6'9" Danny Granger standing in the second row obstructing the view of several Lakers fans. :)

Eleazar
11-28-2012, 01:36 AM
Roy was....a non factor. Half his points at least we created by Paul and David.

Did DJ play? Sheesh, I can't get over what a non-factor he continues to be.

I wouldn't say he was a non-factor. In 18 minutes he had 5 rebounds, 3 blocks, and 2 steals. He was effective on defense. We still didn't force the ball into him, which is a good thing right now.

DJ played 12 useless minutes, and took 5 shots. He played a part in the Pacers going cold in the second quarter.

Peck
11-28-2012, 01:36 AM
I told Peck to stop sweating Ian's progress and early season woes. He's been starting to click and find some confidence in his role on the team. Once he gets his dribble protection up on his drives he'll be great.Green looks good to me, just in a shooting slump. He cleared into nice mid range open space with ease off dribbles and just missed the shots.

Young made a couple of aggression errors on defense, and he's getting shy on offense due to misses, but otherwise he was very helpful on defense all night and badly needed due to fouls.



Roy was....a non factor. Half his points at least we created by Paul and David.


West's defensive effort was outstanding all night, and the dude just missed going trip dub and not a cheap one either. B A M F all night, dude loves contact before the shot.

Hill hasn't had the 3 going, but he was able to drive to the lane with ease, something Lance has been struggling to do.

Paul had a tough task and continues to be in and out of rhythm, but not that bad.

Lance needs to keep the 3pt shot because he's becoming less helpful on offense.

Tyler was painful to watch most of the night. Yes, a couple of hustle down rebounds but totally intimidated at the rim due to hops/height.


Did DJ play? Sheesh, I can't get over what a non-factor he continues to be.

Man I hope so because he was making us look really bad with all of our pre-season hype of him. But tonights game was a very happy surprise for us.

Eleazar
11-28-2012, 01:38 AM
Everybody see's something different here. All I can see is the 6'9" Danny Granger standing in the second row obstructing the view of several Lakers fans. :)

I like his golf clap.

BornReady
11-28-2012, 01:40 AM
I'm feeling a lot better about this season - we're about 500 without our best player and a lot of new pieces trying to adjust!

pizza guy
11-28-2012, 01:43 AM
Simply one of the ugliest games of basketball I have ever seen, and from both teams. Glad we got the win, and props to the guys for fighting and gutting it out. Obviously, mad love to Hill. If they continue to bring the effort, this season will come together yet.

Naptown_Seth
11-28-2012, 01:44 AM
West was 2 assists away from a triple double. Kobe got one. He had 40 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 turnovers.

And 900 FGAs I think.

I hate the whole "goes for 40" when it should be followed by Attempts and FG% because Kobe was looking up at 40% FG all night and might need to skip a turn in the rotation to rest his arm after so much shooting. I thought he sucked half the time due to how he kept forcing action that just wasn't there. Kobe can be great, but other than Iverson he's got to be one of the most selfish players ever on offense. There were times I was practically wanting him to pass to Gasol or someone just so I could stop feeling bad for them having to stand and watch whatever the F he was doing out there.

At 28 FGAs he took 37% of the team's shots, and a lot of the other shots were rebounds, transitions, etc. And his 11-13 came from getting fouled on another 4-5 possessions out of maybe 10 total "going to the line" possessions they had that weren't intentional Howard fouls. If a guy dominates 80% of a team's possessions then he probably should be scoring more than half their points.

Paul did more to get someone else an easy shot with his one drive and dump to Roy than Kobe did all night, unless you call setting a guy up for a rebound chance some type of assist.

imawhat
11-28-2012, 01:44 AM
They keep replaying Hill's game winner on Lakers postgame. This is fun.

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:45 AM
In addition to the absolutely dreadful shooting, the refs played a big part in making this game unwatchable. They blew the whistle on everything. Roy was in poor position on his last two fouls, but those were really ticky tack. Not saying that it was one sided either. The Crawford Skip was obviously a charge, and the free throw disparity is expected with Kobe and Howard. They just slowed the game down and added to the lack of rhythm and flow. I feel bad for anyone other than Laker fans who had to watch this game.

Naptown_Seth
11-28-2012, 01:46 AM
I wouldn't say he was a non-factor. In 18 minutes he had 5 rebounds, 3 blocks, and 2 steals. He was effective on defense. We still didn't force the ball into him, which is a good thing right now.

DJ played 12 useless minutes, and took 5 shots. He played a part in the Pacers going cold in the second quarter.
True on Roy, he has continued to defend well and contests rebounds nicely. I meant on offense really, meaning his points were hollow because others made them happen.

One thing about Roy this year is the refs are letting him get some blocks that are pretty physical. He had one tonight that to me would be a body contact foul, but this year it's "play on". Whatever, works for me. :)

AesopRockOn
11-28-2012, 01:47 AM
unless you call setting a guy up for a rebound chance some type of assist.

DJ Augustine has to earn a living somehow.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 01:48 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif
There are 2 Pacer fans in the background.....are they PD members?

CableKC
11-28-2012, 01:51 AM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=638&d=1354083515

just noticed KDot behind Pringles at the end lol. No worries dude, you still got AOTY :P
Who is KDot?

Naptown_Seth
11-28-2012, 01:52 AM
Man I hope so because he was making us look really bad with all of our pre-season hype of him. But tonights game was a very happy surprise for us.
I mean it on both Ian and Green. Green is in a shooting slump, but the shake into dribble to come very free for a mid-range jumper is a quality shot. He's just missing it right now. And once he gets that going again he'll be free to come to the rim for some more dunks.

Young also is now aware of his shooting and at one point he clearly passed up a shot and moved the ball away, while another time he gave up the 3 and made the smart choice to come inside for a 2.

To me all 3 guys have shown high qualities but seem to be impacted due to role awareness, confidence and comfort. But they all look better now than the did. It's just taking longer than we thought it would after the solid pre-season looks.


The only thing I'm worried about is Roy's offense because that's the one thing that just hasn't had a single moment of looking really back on track. I would be worried about DJ, but I'm punting on him now. I'm shocked at his level of play, it just doesn't make sense but the low quality is undeniable.

Nuntius
11-28-2012, 01:52 AM
Yeah Howard is not looking good, he doesn't fit well on that team either Orlando had it right.

Orlando structured their whole team around him and did a great job at that.

Did they paired him with a superstar? Not really. But was it necessary? Again, not really.

Dwight needs floor spacers. That's what Orlando did.

Still, Dwight wanted to leave Orlando. It just goes to show that no matter how good of a team you build around a superstar, you are not sure that you are going to keep him in the end.

PacersHomer
11-28-2012, 01:52 AM
Everybody see's something different here. All I can see is the 6'9" Danny Granger standing in the second row obstructing the view of several Lakers fans. :)

This gif has so much going on. The Crawford cripwalk, Kobe's reaction, the goofy guy's charge dance, Granger blocking everyone's view, the kid in the yellow jacket's reaction, and Pendergraph's golf clap. I love it.

Anthem
11-28-2012, 01:53 AM
True on Roy, he has continued to defend well and contests rebounds nicely. I meant on offense really, meaning his points were hollow because others made them happen.

One thing about Roy this year is the refs are letting him get some blocks that are pretty physical. He had one tonight that to me would be a body contact foul, but this year it's "play on". Whatever, works for me. :)
Lakers postgame show called him the league's best shotblocker.

TheDon
11-28-2012, 01:54 AM
man 70% FG% for Dwight but he only got 10 shots to Kobe's 28....on Kobe's tombstone it will simply read "he finally passed"

CableKC
11-28-2012, 01:54 AM
100% disagree. I'm glad we won, but if I was given just one chance to go back in time, just one, I would use it to go back three hours and tell my past self to go to sleep - and I'd never regret that decision. Definitely one of the worst games I've ever felt the need to endure. It was a marathon of sloppy play and ****** calls. David West almost exploded. Like literally, the guy almost burst apart in an elusive televised display of spontaneous, rapid human combustion. Frank Vogel will undoubtedly wake up bald tomorrow. Every Pacer fan lost at least a year of his or her life, which, if this game is any indication of what's to come, might be a welcome respite from the torture that is this team. See you guys Friday.
I cannot disagree with you here.......I have a headache watching this game. I loved that we won....but it was terrible game to watch.

Phree Refill
11-28-2012, 01:54 AM
It's nearly an hour after the game and I'm still jacked on adrenaline. How the **** am I supposed to go to work in 4 hours?EDIT:GH3 number one on sports center... Lovin it

TheDon
11-28-2012, 01:56 AM
It's nearly an hour after the game and I'm still jacked on adrenaline. How the **** am I supposed to go to work in 4 hours?

I'm right there with you man, got to be up in about 3 1/2 and be at work in 4...tomorrow is gonna suck but tonight makes it worth it.

joeyd
11-28-2012, 01:58 AM
Hill floater was ESPN #1 in their Top Plays

ECKrueger
11-28-2012, 01:59 AM
man 70% FG% for Dwight but he only got 10 shots to Kobe's 28....on Kobe's tombstone it will simply read "he finally passed"

Haha "he finally passed" that's a good one!

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 02:00 AM
Lakers postgame show called him the league's best shotblocker.

cause he leads the league in blocks per

presto123
11-28-2012, 02:00 AM
There are 2 Pacer fans in the background.....are they PD members?

I noticed that too. I thought.........are there really Pacer fans in LA? lol

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 02:01 AM
There are 2 Pacer fans in the background.....are they PD members?

Aussie Justin beck is one of them. From last seasons "honorary" area55ers

CableKC
11-28-2012, 02:02 AM
I told Peck to stop sweating Ian's progress and early season woes. He's been starting to click and find some confidence in his role on the team. Once he gets his dribble protection up on his drives he'll be great.

Green looks good to me, just in a shooting slump. He cleared into nice mid range open space with ease off dribbles and just missed the shots.

Young made a couple of aggression errors on defense, and he's getting shy on offense due to misses, but otherwise he was very helpful on defense all night and badly needed due to fouls.



Roy was....a non factor. Half his points at least we created by Paul and David.


West's defensive effort was outstanding all night, and the dude just missed going trip dub and not a cheap one either. B A M F all night, dude loves contact before the shot.

Hill hasn't had the 3 going, but he was able to drive to the lane with ease, something Lance has been struggling to do.

Paul had a tough task and continues to be in and out of rhythm, but not that bad.

Lance needs to keep the 3pt shot because he's becoming less helpful on offense.

Tyler was painful to watch most of the night. Yes, a couple of hustle down rebounds but totally intimidated at the rim due to hops/height.


Did DJ play? Sheesh, I can't get over what a non-factor he continues to be.
Our Defense is stellar....our Starting 4 scoring is great.....the only thing that sucks right now is the 2nd unit scoring. I think that it's just a matter of time before the 2nd unit scoring and team chemistry figures it out. Once they do...that's when we will start playing more consistently.

Right now....the weakest aspect of this Team is the 2nd unit...but I don't believe that the 2nd unit scoring woes will last for an entire season. Get Granger back by February.....push Lance to the 2nd unit and I think that we will see the Team we had last year....the difference being a much improved defense and a 2nd unit that isn't totally incompetent.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 02:03 AM
Aussie Justin beck is one of them
What's his PacersDigest handle? I honestly have no clue....:shrug:

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 02:03 AM
I mean it on both Ian and Green. Green is in a shooting slump but the shake into dribble to come very free for a mid-range jumper is a quality shot. He's just missing it right now. And once he gets that going again he'll be free to come to the rim for some more dunks.

Young also is now aware of his shooting and at one point he clearly passed up a shot and moved the ball away, while another time he gave up the 3 and made the smart choice to come inside for a 2.

To me all 3 guys have shown high qualities but seem to be impacted due to role awareness, confidence and comfort. But they all look better now than the did. It's just taking longer than we thought it would after the solid pre-season looks.


The only thing I'm worried about is Roy's offense because that's the one thing that just hasn't had a single moment of looking really back on track. I would be worried about DJ, but I'm punting on him now. I'm shocked at his level of play, it just doesn't make sense but the low quality is undeniable.

Just tell him to take some PED's so his shooting percentage goes up ;). ..... or maybe just tell him to stop taking stupid shots.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-28-2012, 02:05 AM
What's his PacersDigest handle? I honestly have no clue....:shrug:

Something 33. sorry no clue honestly

presto123
11-28-2012, 02:06 AM
Our Defense is stellar....our Starting 4 scoring is great.....the only thing that sucks right now is the 2nd unit scoring. I think that it's just a matter of time before the 2nd unit scoring and team chemistry figures it out. Once they do...that's when we will start playing more consistently.

Right now....the weakest aspect of this Team is the 2nd unit...but I don't believe that the 2nd unit scoring woes will last for an entire season. Get Granger back by February.....push Lance to the 2nd unit and I think that we will see the Team we had last year....the difference being a much improved defense.

If we could just sign a scorer(as we had some Barbosa scoring last year) to add to the 2nd unit it might go a long way.

maragin
11-28-2012, 02:06 AM
Just got back from my first Lakers/ Pacers game here at Staples center. Had myself and two other Hoosiers sitting in a fully stocked suite. I can't explain how great this game was, start to finish. Surrounded by Lakers fans, listening to their jeers as they crept back into the game. Their downturned faces as Hill drained their will to live. And then they all did what Laker fans do best... leave the arena.

Great win tonight. Thank you Pacers.

Goyle
11-28-2012, 02:08 AM
YES!!!!!!!

This LA based Pacers die-hard will sleep happily tonight, and be swelling with pride around all my jackass Laker friends for weeks!

:gopacers:

Its the best feeling isn't it? Winning in Staples always gets me so jacked!

aamcguy
11-28-2012, 02:09 AM
Despite how mediocre his individual game appeared today, aside from a couple bad shots George moved the ball well when he needed to. And despite getting special attention from Artest and Kobe both for his suspect ballhandling, he only had 2 TOs.

And let's not forget on the other end he was guarding Kobe. Which he did a FANTASTIC job of, btw. He dug into Kobe, pushing him away from the basket before the catch. He contested shots without fouling. 4 fouls against Kobe in 32 minutes played? Yes please. He consistently bothered him with his length.

And his obligatory 9 rebounds.

There's a reason his +/- stat was +16 in a 2 point game.

TMJ31
11-28-2012, 02:09 AM
I noticed that too. I thought.........are there really Pacer fans in LA? lol

*Raises hand*

TMJ31
11-28-2012, 02:10 AM
Just got back from my first Lakers/ Pacers game here at Staples center. Had myself and two other Hoosiers sitting in a fully stocked suite. I can't explain how great this game was, start to finish. Surrounded by Lakers fans, listening to their jeers as they crept back into the game. Their downturned faces as Hill drained their will to live. And then they all did what Laker fans do best... leave the arena.

Great win tonight. Thank you Pacers.

Trust me on this... They are also REALLY good at ENTERING the Arena... 45 minutes late.

presto123
11-28-2012, 02:14 AM
Was Jack there tonight? I didn't see him in that ref clip. Isn't that where he usually sits?

Eleazar
11-28-2012, 02:31 AM
Our Defense is stellar....our Starting 4 scoring is great.....the only thing that sucks right now is the 2nd unit scoring. I think that it's just a matter of time before the 2nd unit scoring and team chemistry figures it out. Once they do...that's when we will start playing more consistently.

Right now....the weakest aspect of this Team is the 2nd unit...but I don't believe that the 2nd unit scoring woes will last for an entire season. Get Granger back by February.....push Lance to the 2nd unit and I think that we will see the Team we had last year....the difference being a much improved defense and a 2nd unit that isn't totally incompetent.


The bench shooting was exceptionally poor today. Green was missing shots he has mostly made since about the third or fourth game this season, and while DJ missing so much wasn't a surprise take 5 shots in 12 minutes is.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 02:48 AM
If we could just sign a scorer(as we had some Barbosa scoring last year) to add to the 2nd unit it might go a long way.
I'll piggyback Seth's comments....I think that Green is going to be that guy. I know that he sucks right now....but he's a streaky scorer that simply lacks the confidence in his shot. I remember seeing a play in the game where he had a wide open shot but hesitated for a split second....then took the shot and missed. I think that he'll get it back...its just a matter of time.

Add in that Lance will likely be pushed back to the 2nd unit HOPEFULLY as the 6th Man or 1st Guard off the bench once Granger returns ( yes, in 2-3 months ) and I think that the scoring is going to emerge in the 2nd unit. I hate that everyone's shooting confidence in the 2nd unit is low right now...but I really think that they will figure it out.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 02:52 AM
Despite how mediocre his individual game appeared today, aside from a couple bad shots George moved the ball well when he needed to. And despite getting special attention from Artest and Kobe both for his suspect ballhandling, he only had 2 TOs.

And let's not forget on the other end he was guarding Kobe. Which he did a FANTASTIC job of, btw. He dug into Kobe, pushing him away from the basket before the catch. He contested shots without fouling. 4 fouls against Kobe in 32 minutes played? Yes please. He consistently bothered him with his length.
No one is going to acknowledge this....but despite the stupid mistakes and the willingness to take a shot on the offensive end.....Young should get some credit for defending Kobe. Offensively.....yep....I'd rather have Young wait on the other side of the court when the rest of the 4 are on the offensive end.....but defensively...he really bothered Kobe.

Love him or hate him....but I am perfectly fine with Young being the guy drawing the assignment of defending the top wing scorer on the other team when he's on the floor.

aamcguy
11-28-2012, 03:27 AM
No one is going to acknowledge this....but despite the stupid mistakes and the willingness to take a shot on the offensive end.....Young should get some credit for defending Kobe. Offensively.....yep....I'd rather have Young wait on the other side of the court when the rest of the 4 are on the offensive end.....but defensively...he really bothered Kobe.

Love him or hate him....but I am perfectly fine with Young being the guy drawing the assignment of defending the top wing scorer on the other team when he's on the floor.

I think Young played great defense on Kobe, and definitely pulled off a few stops. But I don't think Young really bothered Kobe. I never saw him streak down the court and physically hound Young to "get even" by guarding the dribble instead of the player.

Honestly, I've always felt Kobe is the perfect superstar for Paul George to guard. He prefers to set up on the weak side and go to work because he's normally quicker, longer, and smarter than the players guarding him. But PG is nearly as quick, has better length, and he has the 1-on-1 defensive instincts to rival Kobe's offensive genius.

hackashaq
11-28-2012, 07:46 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

Joey Crawford has good moves from the low post.

Johanvil
11-28-2012, 08:50 AM
Not only he has that silly mini dance(supposedly signalling the foul call) but he looks straight back in case someone says something and get ready for a T.

As for the game you realize that nothing changed,right?We can only take the glamorous win and maybe Ian.I want to see some stability from him first.Other than that, nothing new.Continued to shoot poorly and once again many missed free throws.West is a beast(we already knew that) and Hill's last basket was such a clever shot and what a beauty.

King Tuts Tomb
11-28-2012, 09:01 AM
Thank god for Kobe or we might have lost that game.


Awesome that Kendrick was at the game. I wonder if he picked up some damn Dominos on the way home.

Johanvil
11-28-2012, 09:10 AM
and it has begun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1TBd0tlld3U

Will Galen
11-28-2012, 09:40 AM
and it has begun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1TBd0tlld3U


I give the win to Crawford! (whisper) I like the result much better.

rel
11-28-2012, 10:13 AM
Who is KDot?

Kendrick Lamar - Hip hop artist
Recently released an album, which I think was album of the year (AOTY)

Ace E.Anderson
11-28-2012, 10:22 AM
Thank god for Kobe or we might have lost that game..

?? The other Lakers outside of Kobe shot a combined: 12-48 for the game. 25%.

Kobe ALMOST won the game all by himself.

I'm glad the Pacer's won, but the Lakers definitely didn't lose because of Kobe Bryant's effort. Especially considering the fact he had the flu.

Derek2k3
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
Despite how mediocre his individual game appeared today, aside from a couple bad shots George moved the ball well when he needed to. And despite getting special attention from Artest and Kobe both for his suspect ballhandling, he only had 2 TOs.

And let's not forget on the other end he was guarding Kobe. Which he did a FANTASTIC job of, btw. He dug into Kobe, pushing him away from the basket before the catch. He contested shots without fouling. 4 fouls against Kobe in 32 minutes played? Yes please. He consistently bothered him with his length.

And his obligatory 9 rebounds.

There's a reason his +/- stat was +16 in a 2 point game.

I was very happy with his rebounding/limited TO's. That was huge.

His defense was very good, except for about a 45 second stretch when LA tied it up. Got lost twice, came over late once, and generally was ineffective. Hard to play defense at a high level, against a guy like Kobe, for 30+ minutes. So, I'd agree overall he was quite good on that end.


No one is going to acknowledge this....but despite the stupid mistakes and the willingness to take a shot on the offensive end.....Young should get some credit for defending Kobe. Offensively.....yep....I'd rather have Young wait on the other side of the court when the rest of the 4 are on the offensive end.....but defensively...he really bothered Kobe.

Sam shut him down at one point, Kobe was dribbling like throwback Travis Best. I don't get the hate for Sam, he's a hustler that is never out of the play, shooting 41% on 4 attempts per game. It isn't like he's taking 8 shots every time he comes in *cough* Gerald Green *cough* shooting 37% on 8 attempts per game.



Honestly, I've always felt Kobe is the perfect superstar for Paul George to guard. He prefers to set up on the weak side and go to work because he's normally quicker, longer, and smarter than the players guarding him. But PG is nearly as quick, has better length, and he has the 1-on-1 defensive instincts to rival Kobe's offensive genius.

I'd argue Paul is quicker, longer, and almost as strong. Kobe is just...Kobe. Creative, good at working officials, sweet jumpshot. However, if Paul was more aggressive offensively, I think Kobe would have had a much worse night. Paul is a great "anti-Kobe" when it comes to defense, really bothering everything Kobe wants to do.


?? The other Lakers outside of Kobe shot a combined: 12-48 for the game. 25%.

Kobe ALMOST won the game all by himself.

I'm glad the Pacer's won, but the Lakers definitely didn't lose because of Kobe Bryant's effort. Especially considering the fact he had the flu.

Exactly. Sorry, but Pau/Howard/Jamison/Meeks/Morris/Duhon/Artest all looked awful, and outside of Pau/Dwight, they are awful. Pacers win this going away if Kobe isn't playing.

Dwight seems disinterested most of the time, Pau has Roy 'esque mental issues/a coach that doesn't value him. Outside of Kobe, this team is exactly what people were afraid of: a hodge-podge of stars that absolutely don't fit together. Throw in an offensive system that requires non-stop running, and this team isn't setup for success.

rexnom
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
Re: bench scoring, it'll be much improved once Danny comes back. Presumably Danny will take Lance's place and Lance can get many of the DJ and Sam Young/Green minutes.

MyFavMartin
11-28-2012, 10:57 AM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif

So good that he got a standing ovation by Danny.

Kemo
11-28-2012, 11:03 AM
Just tell him to take some PED's so his shooting percentage goes up ;). ..... or maybe just tell him to stop stupid shots.

How DARE you question the basketball intelligence of Green's shots.... http://www.pacersdigest.com/images/icons/icon6.png

lol

Sparhawk
11-28-2012, 11:12 AM
Couldn't watch the game. Glad for the win, but both teams have been struggling this season and this game showed just that.

MyFavMartin
11-28-2012, 11:18 AM
Not to tone down the fun or anything on this game and ripping on the Lakers. But, I remember last year what happened when we were all so Happy with Roy leading us to victory against the Lakers only to follow it up by playing the kings next and getting absolutely murdered on the offensive glass. If I were Vogel that would be the first point I make coming off of this win with regard to the next opponent.

Buzzkill.

Kid Minneapolis
11-28-2012, 11:26 AM
I know the FG% was low for both teams, but I thought this was a fantastically entertaining game. Tons of energy on both sides, and in the crowd. Lots of drama. Close finish with a lot of clutch shots and theatrics.

Indy led this game for most of it, and when a guy scores over half of his teams points, you generally don't want to see them win the game, because that's not team basketball. So the good guys won in this case. I knew when they said Kobe was game-time decision because of the flu --- he was going to play, and he was going to go off on us. That's what he ALWAYS does. He's a big drama queen, lol... why can't he play like that all the time. Because he wants the attention.

King Tuts Tomb
11-28-2012, 11:30 AM
?? The other Lakers outside of Kobe shot a combined: 12-48 for the game. 25%.

Kobe ALMOST won the game all by himself.

I'm glad the Pacer's won, but the Lakers definitely didn't lose because of Kobe Bryant's effort. Especially considering the fact he had the flu.

True, the other Lakers shot 12 for 28, including Dwight who shot 7-10. I was very happy they ran their offense through a 34 year old jump shooter with the flu instead of the best center in the league. Besides that last game-tying three that was absolutely going in, I was rooting for Kobe to shoot every time. He was sloppy with the ball and there was absolutely no rhythm in their offense because Kobe wanted to have a "flu game" and played hero ball. Had he taken half the shots and played a little more conservatively with the ball the Lakers would have had a better shot at winning the game.

Ace E.Anderson
11-28-2012, 11:44 AM
True, the other Lakers shot 12 for 28, including Dwight who shot 7-10. I was very happy they ran their offense through a 34 year old jump shooter with the flu instead of the best center in the league. Besides that last game-tying three that was absolutely going in, I was rooting for Kobe to shoot every time. He was sloppy with the ball and there was absolutely no rhythm in their offense because Kobe wanted to have a "flu game" and played hero ball. Had he taken half the shots and played a little more conservatively with the ball the Lakers would have had a better shot at winning the game.

Anytime D12 got the ball anywhere close to the rim, we simply fouled him and made him shoot free throws. Yes he was 7-10, but we probably negated at least another 6 or 7 FGA's with trips to the FT line. Dwight is no longer looking like the best C in the league. That freakish strength is still there, but he whines to the refs wayyyy too much, and if you can stop his initial move, he's pretty much screwed.

I'd be much more afraid of Kobe, than Dwight at this point right now.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 11:50 AM
Anytime D12 got the ball anywhere close to the rim, we simply fouled him and made him shoot free throws. Yes he was 7-10, but we probably negated at least another 6 or 7 FGA's with trips to the FT line. Dwight is no longer looking like the best C in the league. That freakish strength is still there, but he whines to the refs wayyyy too much, and if you can stop his initial move, he's pretty much screwed.

I'd be much more afraid of Kobe, than Dwight at this point right now.

Kobe was so mad at his teammates last night that he decided to take over, that Morris guy sucks, Duhon sucks, Artest couldn't shoot to save his life, Gasol was afraid of taking an smaller West of the dribble and post him up for some reason and Howard is not Howard anymore, so if Kobe doesn't take over they were never going to have a chance to win the game.

aamcguy
11-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Kobe was so mad at his teammates last night that he decided to take over, that Morris guy sucks, Duhon sucks, Artest couldn't shoot to save his life, Gasol was afraid of taking an smaller West of the dribble and post him up for some reason and Howard is not Howard anymore, so if Kobe doesn't take over they were never going to have a chance to win the game.

And also took away any chance away that they might get involved with the offense. It's not like they were exploiting a mismatch. I will take a PG/Young defender combo against an aging guard who has the flu and is working toward 30 shots any night, even if it is Kobe.

It wasn't just the fourth quarter. They either played Kobe 1 on 5 or the rest of the team 4 on 4. And if I recalled correctly this happened the last time we played? He got his 30+ points but had to take an obscene amount of shots then too.

15th parallel
11-28-2012, 12:03 PM
Without Nash running the show for the Lakers, D'Antoni's system simply does not fit with the Lakers. Their lineup is not that fast, and there's just not much ball movement especially with Bryant looking to create for himself

While this has been a bad offensive outing for both clubs, I think the Pacers really showed their dominating defense once again to make the Lakers struggle scoring. It's just that they can't make shots to save their lives that their great defense is almost negated. Good thing Hill showed up on the last minute. The offense really needs a lot of work, and their FTs really needs to be practiced more. I can't believe they have gone so bad as compared to last year, where they have a pretty good team FT% average.

Derek2k3
11-28-2012, 12:04 PM
Oh, and highlight of the game: Tyler smoking Ron, knocking him on his *** out of bounds. It was a thing of beauty...until we settled for a Roy 20' jumper on a 4 on 5.

King Tuts Tomb
11-28-2012, 12:06 PM
Anytime D12 got the ball anywhere close to the rim, we simply fouled him and made him shoot free throws. Yes he was 7-10, but we probably negated at least another 6 or 7 FGA's with trips to the FT line. Dwight is no longer looking like the best C in the league. That freakish strength is still there, but he whines to the refs wayyyy too much, and if you can stop his initial move, he's pretty much screwed.

I'd be much more afraid of Kobe, than Dwight at this point right now.

And all those fouls put the Lakers in the penalty, and kept Roy Hibbert off the floor. They scored 72 points and almost won. Had Kobe not played I assume they would have scored at least that and probably more.

I truly don't know why the Lakers even got Dwight Howard. They barely use him and he looks confused as to why he's there as well. Hopefully when Nash comes back he can bring some order to the offense and we can see what this team is capable of. Right now it's a boring team to watch, which is annoying to me because I'd like to see them play at an elite level.

gknjr007
11-28-2012, 12:08 PM
Best moment of the game.

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1321811/JOEY-CRAWFORD.gif










how did we get pacer fans in LA

15th parallel
11-28-2012, 12:19 PM
Kobe was so mad at his teammates last night that he decided to take over, that Morris guy sucks, Duhon sucks, Artest couldn't shoot to save his life, Gasol was afraid of taking an smaller West of the dribble and post him up for some reason and Howard is not Howard anymore, so if Kobe doesn't take over they were never going to have a chance to win the game.

They are simply disorganized that's why they have struggled in recent games. Aside from his FTs, Howard has played great all around. If they went for him for most of their offensive sets they could have killed the Pacers because he can make the interior defense collapse just like how he did in Orlando. He's not being utilized properly, and they prefer to run their offense with Kobe.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 12:30 PM
By the way I was looking at places were the Lakers can trade Gasol to and Minnesota makes so much sense is not even funny, Gasol + pick for Dwill, Varea and Roy, that could give D'Antoni the athletic power forward that can also shoot the jumper in Dwill plus and nice backup point guard that can also run his system.

For Minny Gasol makes sense because they would finally have a legit center, a front court duo of Love and Gasol could be nice not only that but if Rubio comes back he'll be playing with his country man, Rubio, Luke, AK47, Love and Gasol? no bad.

Peck
11-28-2012, 12:36 PM
By the way I was looking at places were the Lakers can trade Gasol to and Minnesota makes so much sense is not even funny, Gasol + pick for Dwill, Varea and Roy, that could give D'Antoni the athletic power forward that can also shoot the jumper in Dwill plus and nice backup point guard that can also run his system.

For Minny Gasol makes sense because they would finally have a legit center, a front court duo of Love and Gasol could be nice not only that but if Rubio comes back he'll be playing with his country man, Rubio, Luke, AK47, Love and Gasol? no bad.

I think Pekovic (sp?) is a legit center right now & is significantly younger than Gasol. But since your trade would be for other pieces it makes some sense however I don't know that Pekovic would be happy as the backup now that he is an established starter.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 12:51 PM
I think Pekovic (sp?) is a legit center right now & is significantly younger than Gasol. But since your trade would be for other pieces it makes some sense however I don't know that Pekovic would be happy as the backup now that he is an established starter.

I think Pekovic is good I just don't think that he is as versatile as Gasol, Paul and Love interior passing and basketball IQ could do a lot of damage in my opinion, and yes you are right about Pekovic been happy to be a backup I guess we don't know that.

The other part of my proposed trade is that I'm a Dwill fan and to me he is been underused in Minny or not used at all, I think he could be the new version of "the Matrix" but better, D'Antoni could make him look amazing.

TinManJoshua
11-28-2012, 01:35 PM
I think Pekovic (sp?) is a legit center right now & is significantly younger than Gasol. But since your trade would be for other pieces it makes some sense however I don't know that Pekovic would be happy as the backup now that he is an established starter.

I think Pekovic is the perfect compliment to Kevin Love. He does all those things that don't show up in the stats, and Kevin gets all the stats.

Ace E.Anderson
11-28-2012, 01:41 PM
And all those fouls put the Lakers in the penalty, and kept Roy Hibbert off the floor. They scored 72 points and almost won. Had Kobe not played I assume they would have scored at least that and probably more.

I truly don't know why the Lakers even got Dwight Howard. They barely use him and he looks confused as to why he's there as well. Hopefully when Nash comes back he can bring some order to the offense and we can see what this team is capable of. Right now it's a boring team to watch, which is annoying to me because I'd like to see them play at an elite level.

With the way they were shooting, who knows how many points they would have scored. EVERYONE was off last night. Without Kobe, who on that team is creating anything on the perimeter last night? Gasol had a clear mismatch against D. West, and he got stuffed the majority of the night. I agree they could have went into Dwight a little more, but lets not forget that he was in foul trouble for most of the night as well.

Without any respectable 3pt shooters on the floor, it's easier to clog the lane on D12. Hopefully when Nash comes back, they can get the high pick and roll game working a little more.

Cousy47
11-28-2012, 01:43 PM
Gasol would certainly take cre of the big rotation for Minny if he or Pek would accept a bench role. Would probably be a good trade for both teams if Pau doesn't get more comfortable with the offense in LA.

Ace E.Anderson
11-28-2012, 01:45 PM
On a different note, we are a MUCH MUCH better team when G.Hill is aggressive. Not just scoring wise, but in terms of just getting into the lane, pushing the tempo, etc. He is definitely our X-Factor. It seems that when he plays well, we win, and when he doesn't, we don't.

As the starting PG for the Pacers, he has a lot of haters here on PD, who like to gripe about his contract and his play after his bad games, but stay quiet after performances like this. I hope he continues to play well and hits more game winners so that the haters can eat their share of crow.

MiaDragon
11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
True on Roy, he has continued to defend well and contests rebounds nicely. I meant on offense really, meaning his points were hollow because others made them happen.

One thing about Roy this year is the refs are letting him get some blocks that are pretty physical. He had one tonight that to me would be a body contact foul, but this year it's "play on". Whatever, works for me. :)


I do like the fact that Roy went hard to the basket a few times, it would be nice if he started to do that more often.

Since86
11-28-2012, 02:29 PM
On a different note, we are a MUCH MUCH better team when G.Hill is aggressive.

He's really dialed back shooting the three when the defense goes under the PnR. He still shot 4 of them last night, but they were much more in the offensive flow.

docpaul
11-28-2012, 02:38 PM
Kobe was so mad at his teammates last night that he decided to take over, that Morris guy sucks, Duhon sucks, Artest couldn't shoot to save his life, Gasol was afraid of taking an smaller West of the dribble and post him up for some reason and Howard is not Howard anymore, so if Kobe doesn't take over they were never going to have a chance to win the game.

Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)

Sure looked like it to me. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of D12 this year, but he looked tired/frustrated last night.

Eleazar
11-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)

Sure looked like it to me. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of D12 this year, but he looked tired/frustrated last night.

And Gasol looked even more tired and frustrated than D12.

Goyle
11-28-2012, 02:44 PM
how did we get pacer fans in LA

I dunno

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 02:45 PM
Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)

Sure looked like it to me. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of D12 this year, but he looked tired/frustrated last night.

I have seen the Lakers struggle all year this is nothing new, yes the Pacers D was good but I've seen similar games with worse defensive teams.

Regarding Howard, I think he is still trying to get in shape you can tell that he is not jumping or moving as fast as he used to, they throw the ball in the air for him to get it and he can't, remember that last play were West fouled him? If that was the old Howard he dunks the ball before going down, now he has to gather himself to be able to dunk it.

Sandman21
11-28-2012, 02:45 PM
how did we get pacer fans in LA
Aussie invasion. :D

Since86
11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)

Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.

Sandman21
11-28-2012, 02:57 PM
Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)
You are giving credit to the Pacers? Do you realize where you are?:laugh:

docpaul
11-28-2012, 02:59 PM
Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.

I need to go back and watch all of the recorded games some more, to look at it more closely. But I get the sense that the opposing teams are getting open looks (a significant percentage of the shots seem less contested). Perhaps we're just wearing them out physically?

Opponent FGA are quite high (only two teams face more average FGA than Indy).

Are there stats out there for percentages of contested shots by defensive team?

Perhaps some data around distribution of shot locations against our defense?

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:18 PM
Lakers are 13th in scoring, at just over 99pts per, and are 9th in the league in FG% at 45.4%. Just to put their 77pt 31.6fg% into perspective.

Both teams shot a horrible percentage last night, both teams missed a lot of open uncontested shots, both teams missed a lot of free throws, lets look a this numbers you are posting with a truck load of salt :twocents:

Since86
11-28-2012, 03:20 PM
Both teams shot a horrible percentage last night, both teams missed a lot of open uncontested shots, lets look a this numbers you are posting with a truck load of salt :twocents:

So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

docpaul
11-28-2012, 03:25 PM
So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/fieldGoalPct/split/11

threein73
11-28-2012, 03:25 PM
On an unrelated note, just saw on espn that this is the 20th anniversary of reggies 57 point game.

I was at that game! Will never forget the CHARLOTTE crowd chanting REG-GIE, and moaning when he just missed a three in the last minute that would have given him 60!

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:33 PM
So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.

On the other side of the coin the Lakers numbers on D look great from last night too, does that mean they are a pretty good defensive team? no, the Pacers also missed a lot of open shots and free throws, you even said it yourself "if the Pacers learn how to play better offense they can be pretty good", it's not that the Lakers stop them as much as they were not able to execute and hit the open shots.

Since86
11-28-2012, 03:36 PM
I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.

When it continues to happen game after game after game, with teams that scored well before and after the playing the Pacers, then I don't think it can just be chalked up to missing shots.

Pacers are horrible offensively, so when their offensive numbers are horrible, it's hard to give defense credit. That's the difference.

There's no need to be a salt truck driver, just because someone said something completely factually correct.

LA might have a crappy record, but offensively, they're a pretty good offensive team and have been really good since MDA took over.

docpaul
11-28-2012, 03:39 PM
I was talking about the game last night, yes the Pacers were good on D(specially Hibbert) but you can't just ignore the amount of open shots and free throws the Lakers missed last night you just can't.

On the other side of the coin the Lakers numbers on D look great from last night too, does that mean they are a pretty good defensive team? no, the Pacers also missed a lot of open shots and free throws, you even said it yourself "if the Pacers learn how to play better offense they can be pretty good", it's not that the Lakers stop them as much as they were not able to execute and hit the open shots.

You're not taking the law of averages into account.

The Pacers have been bad game after game offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

Lakers have had a statistically much more stout offense than the Pacers this year thus far.

Teams who play the Pacers have been poor offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:49 PM
You're not taking the law of averages into account.

The Pacers have been bad game after game offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

I don't need data I have seen the games yes they suck on offense.


Lakers have had a statistically much more stout offense than the Pacers this year thus far.

Yes but their offense still sucks, they just have the talent to overcome that unlike the Pacers, that doesn't mean they were not missing open shots like crazy specially Artest and the scrub of Morris.


Teams who play the Pacers have been poor offensively, so far this year. Look at the data.

Again I don't need to look at any data I've seen the games, I agree.

You guys are acting like I'm trying to trash the Pacers that is not my point, my point is to always look at the big picture, yes it's nice to show some data and numbers to prove a point and be all happy about it but at the same time you have to look at the other team bad play, on the Lakers case they just flat out sucked last night and yes the Pacers had something to do with it but not everything was because of the Pacers so is not like the Pacers shut them down as many are trying to portrait here.

BillS
11-28-2012, 04:00 PM
So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

Nope. Clearly all just luck that we play teams on a bad night. Except when we don't.

docpaul
11-28-2012, 04:02 PM
You guys are acting like I'm trying to trash the Pacers that is not my point, my point is to always look at the big picture, yes it's nice to show some data and numbers to prove a point and be all happy about it but at the same time you have to look at the other team bad play, on the Lakers case they just flat out sucked last night and yes the Pacers had something to do with it but not everything was because of the Pacers so is not like the Pacers shut them down as many are trying to portrait here.

I certainly wasn't focused on you. However, I agree with your basic points. Lakers had open shots that they simply missed. The Lakers looked like they "flat out sucked".

My perspective, however, is that the majority of the teams we've played this year have looked similarly "sucky" and have also had open looks that they simply missed. There must be a reason for that. 15 games is getting beyond an aberrance. I want to try to gather some data in support of what might be happening.

Ace E.Anderson
11-28-2012, 04:06 PM
The only team that's looked pretty good offensively against us are the Spurs. And even the Spurs seemed to miss a lot of shots against the Pacers. (outside of Tony Parker)

Teams do seem to miss open J's against us. My prediction is the fact that the Pacers are making teams work so hard to get open shots, that by the time the opposing player is open, they're are out of rhythm.

The Pacers do a good job of making teams shoot long, contested 2's. It's almost like Vogel adopted a few principles from Thibideau/Doc Rivers-- clog the lane, and chase guys off the 3 pt line (especially the corner 3). The slightly open 19ft jumpshot is one of the lowest % shots in all of basketball.

Also, the refs are letting the Pacers play a LOT more physically, especially on the inside. It seems to be a league-wide theme, but it definitely benefits a big, strong and physical team like the pacers. This is a big reason why MEM is playing so well right now, they're just beating the hell out of teams physically on the inside both offensively and defensively.

The best way to attack the pacers is to have a big that can stretch the floor, and run pick and pops at Roy all game. Very few teams have the players that can run this to perfection, time after time (I.E the Spurs). If Mahinmi can continue to get himself comfortable, then he will easily be able to cover up this weakness as well. Out of all the things we can gripe about this team, defense definitely shouldn't be one of them. IMO

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 04:07 PM
Nope. Clearly all just luck that we play teams on a bad night. Except when we don't.

... And nobody is saying that.


Note: if I was as sarcastic as you are right now I'll be getting private messages from you to tone it down, I thought we are not supposed to do what you are doing?

BillS
11-28-2012, 04:36 PM
... And nobody is saying that.

Everyone talks about the defense being "good" but the reason the opponent is scoring low is credited to something else. That implies that the Pacers are not playing good defense so much as our opponents have bad offenses. Except the ones who DO actually score, like San Antonio.

And this is not so much a reaction to the board as it is to the national sports media, who continue to focus on the other team losing and often kind of fail to mention who they lost to. Yeah, it's because of who we're playing when it happens, but I'm still kind of tired of it being ignored. If teams were scoring a bazillion points per game on us you KNOW the topic would be how horrible the defense was, even if our offense still couldn't manage to score 75 in a game.


Note: if I was as sarcastic as you are right now I'll be getting private messages from you to tone it down, I thought we are not supposed to do what you are doing?

I would hope I didn't do that after a couple of posts but after a bunch - or after it was starting to get heated. If I am making these comments out of context after another month (meaning without there still being people who discount the effect of the Pacers defense on games), then someone can (and should) tell me to tone it down.

Anthem
11-28-2012, 04:48 PM
He's really dialed back shooting the three when the defense goes under the PnR. He still shot 4 of them last night, but they were much more in the offensive flow.
The one thing I really really really hate is when he drives in, goes through the paint, then drives all the way back out. At that point, it's a guarantee he's gonna chuck up a low-percentage shot. I accept that he's a scoring guard, but I want to see him pass the ball in that situation.

Naptown_Seth
11-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Just tell him to take some PED's so his shooting percentage goes up ;). ..... or maybe just tell him to stop taking stupid shots.

Wide open at 15 feet coming up off your dribble into your shot is NOT a bad shot. If it was being closed out or defended in any way then maybe. But the 3 he hit was maybe the most defended of his shots. He's wicked quick laterally and really gets space off those types of moves.



I should give more credit to Paul because he set up one dunk by Roy that was all PG driving through traffic. He's getting there, it's just taking time.

And at this point I think it's safe to say that he's not getting the cheap rebounds. A lot of what he pulls down are contested and he's using his hops/length to make the plays. Having him at the 2/3 is a huge benefit with boards. It's to the point that I feel like I, and others, have been overlooking the quality of his rebounding impact.



The team hasn't found that flow yet, but boy in some areas they are REALLY STRONG. Defense in general was epic. How many times did you see Young or Paul or Lance drive a guy right into a trap by West or a block by Roy. I really thought West showed great defensive activity which helped the team take advantage of what the wings were doing.

And you can count on contested boards in any situations where the Pacers are in the lane (ie, not caught at the arc on a missed shot, etc). The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.

So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 05:47 PM
By the way I was looking at places were the Lakers can trade Gasol to and Minnesota makes so much sense is not even funny, Gasol + pick for Dwill, Varea and Roy, that could give D'Antoni the athletic power forward that can also shoot the jumper in Dwill plus and nice backup point guard that can also run his system.

For Minny Gasol makes sense because they would finally have a legit center, a front court duo of Love and Gasol could be nice not only that but if Rubio comes back he'll be playing with his country man, Rubio, Luke, AK47, Love and Gasol? no bad.
The Lakers will not trade an impact Player like Gasol to another Western Conference Team that will likely be a Playoff Bubble Team.

As you suggested before.....something surrounding Gasol for Calderon+Bargnani with Toronto makes more sense.

CableKC
11-28-2012, 05:50 PM
Isn't it possible that the Pacers defense took them out of their game? :)

Sure looked like it to me. Granted, I haven't watched a lot of D12 this year, but he looked tired/frustrated last night.
The Pacers defense was stifling at times. When Kobe got the ball....he was swarmed....whenever anyone tried to drive to the hoop.....they ended up getting mobbed by a forest of BlueNGold. I recall several plays where there was a frickin block party when anyone tried to get under the basket.

Indy62
11-28-2012, 06:05 PM
TMJ31 - there is at least one other die hard Pacers fan in LA. Me! I never post over here. But, I was directly in front of maragin's suite last night (which looked awesome). He (or one of his friends) asked me if I was on digest and I said no, but that got me thinking that I should be. So I guess I should start posting.

For the record, it's my birthday AND I had on the brand new George Hill 71-72 HWC Jersey that I bought in Indy last Friday at the Spurs game. I've got to imagine that's the reason we won....

CableKC
11-28-2012, 06:45 PM
The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.
This is something that doesn't get noticed that much. There were many plays where the length of GH, Lance, PG, Young and Green were stifling against the Lakers backcourt. I recall seeing Kobe being swarmed against the sideline and couldn't get out of the mess....which often left to turnovers.


So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.
Actually, it's great that the defense is above average.....but given that we've lost to many former Lottery Teams....the offense has to be WAY better than it is now to win games. Right now....the offense isn't even good....heck, it's not even average...it's way below average.

You're right.....it doesn't mean that the Pacers have to be a super stellar scoring machine like Miami or OKC....but being one of the most offensively challenged teams in the league ( being bottom in the league in shooting FG% and points scored ) means that there is little room for mistakes.

Yep....the offense will eventually improve and we will be way more formidable than we are now....but we still have to improve the scoring on this Team....even if it's a marginal improvement....until Granger returns.

The first area of improvement obviously with the 2nd unit when it comes to scoring...which will mean less wear and tear on the Starters.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 09:50 PM
Wide open at 15 feet coming up off your dribble into your shot is NOT a bad shot. If it was being closed out or defended in any way then maybe. But the 3 he hit was maybe the most defended of his shots. He's wicked quick laterally and really gets space off those types of moves.

He takes fadeway shots with one leg out thinking he is Kobe or something that is not a good shot, he is also a pretty dumb basketball player, I love how you like to ignore that.


I should give more credit to Paul because he set up one dunk by Roy that was all PG driving through traffic. He's getting there, it's just taking time.

And at this point I think it's safe to say that he's not getting the cheap rebounds. A lot of what he pulls down are contested and he's using his hops/length to make the plays. Having him at the 2/3 is a huge benefit with boards. It's to the point that I feel like I, and others, have been overlooking the quality of his rebounding impact.


I've been saying this about Paul for a long time.



The team hasn't found that flow yet, but boy in some areas they are REALLY STRONG. Defense in general was epic. How many times did you see Young or Paul or Lance drive a guy right into a trap by West or a block by Roy. I really thought West showed great defensive activity which helped the team take advantage of what the wings were doing.

West and defense on the same sentence? lol


And you can count on contested boards in any situations where the Pacers are in the lane (ie, not caught at the arc on a missed shot, etc). The length of the team overall is having a huge impact.

So freaking close to being awesome. It's probably why the offense seems so frustrating because it doesn't even have to be good to win a lot of games.

"So freaking close to be awesome"? :laugh: yeah I really want to know what you are drinking or smoking unless "awesome" for you is just to make it to the playoffs.

CJ Jones
11-28-2012, 10:56 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=638&d=1354083515

just noticed KDot behind Pringles at the end lol. No worries dude, you still got AOTY :P

good kid.. M.A.D. City.

BillS
11-29-2012, 10:27 AM
"So freaking close to be awesome"? :laugh: yeah I really want to know what you are drinking or smoking unless "awesome" for you is just to make it to the playoffs.

He was talking about the defense, not the overall team.

You keep taking exception to it when people imply you don't think the defense is any good, but then you turn around and constantly pooh-pooh the defense as anything particularly special. Just what does the defense have to do in your opinion to get to the point where you will acknowledge it isn't just a fluke? Hold teams to 10 points per game? Mesmerize opposing players into throwing the ball into our basket?

boombaby1987
11-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Something people haven't talked about is the Pacers possession before the Hill floater. I thought it was a really well designed play, and it did lead to a wide open Hill 3 pointer, which he unfortunately missed.

vnzla81
11-29-2012, 11:53 AM
He was talking about the defense, not the overall team.

You keep taking exception to it when people imply you don't think the defense is any good, but then you turn around and constantly pooh-pooh the defense as anything particularly special. Just what does the defense have to do in your opinion to get to the point where you will acknowledge it isn't just a fluke? Hold teams to 10 points per game? Mesmerize opposing players into throwing the ball into our basket?

I don't get why you get so defensive? I thought Seth was talking about the team in general this is not the first time he talks about the team been almost "awesome" in his eyes.

imawhat
11-29-2012, 12:18 PM
So 15 games worth of fg% isn't enough to prove that the Pacers are pretty damn good defensively?

Even the Lakers announcers were talking about how good the Pacers defense was in their postgame.

TheDon
11-29-2012, 12:49 PM
Mesmerize opposing players into throwing the ball into our basket? only if we had this guy on the teamhttp://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/3/5/1/6/a3066194-64-hypnotoad.gif?d=1266353298

Nuntius
11-29-2012, 02:20 PM
By the way I was looking at places were the Lakers can trade Gasol to and Minnesota makes so much sense is not even funny, Gasol + pick for Dwill, Varea and Roy, that could give D'Antoni the athletic power forward that can also shoot the jumper in Dwill plus and nice backup point guard that can also run his system.

For Minny Gasol makes sense because they would finally have a legit center, a front court duo of Love and Gasol could be nice not only that but if Rubio comes back he'll be playing with his country man, Rubio, Luke, AK47, Love and Gasol? no bad.

I don't think that this trade makes any sense at all for Minny. They have a legit Center. He is called Nikola Pekovic. Their front court is great.

They need help in their back court. Badly. And the Lakers cannot provide that.

Nuntius
11-29-2012, 05:20 PM
My perspective, however, is that the majority of the teams we've played this year have looked similarly "sucky" and have also had open looks that they simply missed. There must be a reason for that. 15 games is getting beyond an aberrance. I want to try to gather some data in support of what might be happening.

Here's an interesting stat.

Opponent non-blocked 2 pt %:

1) Indiana: 47.9%

2) Golden State: 49.4%

3) New York: 49.7%

4) Atlanta: 49.8%

5) Memphis: 49.9%

6) LA Lakers: 50.3%

6) San Antonio: 50.3%

-----

28) Charlotte: 54.2%

29) Cleveland: 55.4%

30) Portland: 56.7%

So, while most teams hold the opposing team at around 50 - 55 % in that statistic category we and Portland are the statistical outliers. We hold them at around 48% (2% lower than the lowest mark) and they hold them at 57% (2% higher than the highest mark).

That points out that teams miss a lot of shots against us that are not blocked. However, it doesn't calculate the amount of a coverage that a shot has received. It just calculates if it has been blocked or not. So, it could mean that we are contesting a lot of our opposition's shots while Portland leaves them open. Or it could mean that we have been quite lucky and the opponent is missing open shots and Portland has been pretty damn unlucky.

Let's also see how we rank in blocks per game and block %.

Blocks per Game:

1) Indiana: 7.4

1) Oklahoma City: 7.4

3) Charlotte: 7.2

3) Utah: 7.2

5) Milwaukee: 7.1

Block %:

1) Milwaukee: 8.9%

2) Indiana: 8.7%

2) Oklahoma City: 8.7%

2) Utah: 8.7%

5) Charlotte: 8.6%

So, we are first in opponents' non-blocked 2 pt%, we are tied for first along with OKC in Blocks per game and we are tied for second along with OKC and Utah in Block %.

Combine those stats together and one can easily see why we're ranked so highly defensively.

However, I still don't have a valid explanation why we're an outlier in opponents' non-blocked 2 pt%.

Let's take a look at some more stats that involve shooting defense.

Opponent Effective Field Goal %:

1) Indiana: 43.5%

2) Chicago: 46.7%

3) OKC: 46.8%

3) San Antonio: 46.8%

5) Atlanta: 46.9%

-------

25) Boston: 50.2%

26) Toronto: 50.3%

27) New Orleans: 51.6%

28) Phoenix: 51.8%

29) Portland: 52.4%

30) Cleveland: 53.4%

In this stat, we can see that most teams (from 2 to 26) allow their opponents an eFG in the ranks of 47 - 50%. We have more negative outliers this time. New Orleans, Phoenix and Portland allow an eFG in the ranks of 51.6 - 52.4% (rougly a 1% difference between the 3 and thus the reason they are grouped up) while Cleveland is the real negative outlier allowing a 53.4% eFG.

On the other hand, the Pacers are a huge positive outlier allowing their opponents a mere eFG of 43.5%. That's 3.2% lower than the second best team in that category (the Bulls) and 9.9% lower than the last team (the Cavs). So, it's not only that we're first in that category. It's the margin that it's astounding.

Opponent Three Point %:

1) Chicago: 30.7%

2) Indiana: 31.2%

3) San Antonio: 31.8%

4) Orlando: 31.9%

5) Golden State: 32.7%

6) Brooklyn: 33.3%

7) Sacramento: 33.5%

8) Minnesota: 34%

---

27) Toronto: 38.3%

28) New York: 38.6%

29) New Orleans: 40%

30) Phoenix: 43.2%

This category does not seem to have many outliers unless you want to consider the top 4 an outlier as they seem to allow 30.5 - 32% while the rest of the teams are in the 33 - 39% range. The sure thing is that New Orleans and Phoenix are negative outliers. Especially, Phoenix is a huge outlier.

In any case, we're still ranked highly in this category. A second place in this category seems great considering Paul's past troubles in chasing his opponent around screens. So, a shout to our perimeter players for this. They seem to be doing a fine job.

Opponent Two Point %:

1) Indiana: 42.6%

2) LA Clippers: 45.1%

2) Denver: 45.1%

4) Atlanta: 45.4%

4) OKC: 45.4%

6) Memphis: 45.5%

7) LA Lakers: 46.1%

8) Utah: 46.2%

9) Minnesota: 46.4%

10) Philadelphia: 46.5%

---

25) Phoenix: 48.2%

26) Sacramento: 48.2%

27) Toronto: 48.2%

28) Boston: 48.3%

29) Portland: 52.4%

30) Cleveland: 53%

This stat is essentially the combination of non-blocked 2pt % and the Block% (since, I don't think that we or any other team in the league blocks a lot of 3 pointers).

Unsurprisingly, we're first with a pretty big margin. We're the clear cut positive outlier with a 2.5% margin from the second best team. Most teams allow a 45 - 48 Two Point % while we allow 42.5%. Once again, Portland and Cleveland are huge negative outliers.

Opponent True Shooting %:

1) Indiana: 95.6%

2) San Antonio: 100.4%

3) Chicago: 100.6%

4) OKC: 100.9%

4) LA Lakers: 100.9%

6) Orlando: 101.3%

---

22) New York: 106.4%

23) Milwaukee: 107.6%

24) Sacramento: 107.8%

25) Boston: 107.9%

26) New Orleans: 108.4%

27) Toronto: 108.6%

28) Phoenix: 109.9%

29) Portland: 111.9%

30) Cleveland: 113.6%

Apparently, TS% produces larger margin as you can see clear jumps between 22 and 23 and also between the last 3 spots compared to the previous ones. The overall image is still the same, though. We're huge positive outliers while Portland and Cleveland are huge negative outliers.

So, that's pretty much it for shooting defense. I didn't feel the need to post the opponent Shooting% because it can be found easily and I don't really see the reason to post Opponent FT% as I don't really find a reason for this stat to exist (seriously, how can a team affect this?).

Let me post some scoring defense categories, though.

Opponent Points in Paint per Game:

1) Indiana: 35.5

2) Milwaukee: 36.2

3) LA Clippers: 37.5

4) Philadelphia: 37.5

5) Washington: 37.7

6) Chicago: 38.7

---

26) Orlando: 42.9

26) Brooklyn: 42.9

28) Boston: 43.2

29) Utah: 45.4

30) Portland: 47.1

Here's another interesting category that we lead. We're positive outlier here while Utah and Portland are negative outliers (Portland is a huge one, actually).

Remember the non-blocked 2pt% category that had us as positive outliers and Portland as negative outliers? Could the answer be it? That simply Portlad is allowing a lot of points in the paint (be it backdoor cuts, lay-ups, dunks or post-ups) while we don't allow a lot of points there?

Even if I'm not sure if the answer for the above question is yes, one thing is for sure. That our interior defense is top notch. So, a shout out to Roy, West (yes, vnzla, West, he still helps even if he has the lateral movement of a turtle), Mahinmi and Tyler. This category is a proof that they are doing an excellent job so far.

Opponent Fastbreak Points per Game:

1) Indiana: 10.1

2) Brooklyn: 11.4

3) Orlando: 11.8

4) Philadelphia: 11.9

4) Detroit: 11.9

4) LA Clippers: 11.9

7) OKC: 12.2

---

23) Sacramento: 14.1

24) Toronto: 14.4

25) Cleveland: 15.5

25) Portland: 15.6

27) Charlotte: 15.8

28) Milwaukee: 15.8

29) Houston: 16.1

30) LA Lakers: 16.5

There are only 2 jumps higher than 1 point in this category. The 1.3 jump between the 1st and 2nd place (us and Brooklyn) and the 1.1 jump between the 24th and 25th place (Toronto and Cleveland).

For whatever reason, we're first in this category despite being 24th in TOs per Game. So, we turn the ball over a lot but somehow we're allowing the less fastbreak points in the league. How do we do that? :laugh:

Opponent Fastbreak Efficiency:

1) Indiana: 1.206

2) Dallas: 1.362

3) OKC: 1.364

4) Detroit: 1.418

5) Denver: 1.421

---

26) Phoenix: 2.019

27) Milwaukee: 2.081

28) Toronto: 2.130

29) Charlotte: 2.351

30) New York: 2.359

Apparently, we're pretty good in defending the fastbreak as we're positive outliers in one more defensive category. Conversely, Charlotte and (strangely) New York suck at it as they are huge negative outliers.

I'm pretty sure that the athleticism of our wings (PG, Lance, the much-maligned Gerald Green and even Young) has something to do with it. Tyler has probably helped in that category as well since I clearly remember a certain opponent fastbreak in which Tyler caught up with opposing PG (I think it was Tony Parker in the San Antonio game) and blocked his shot at the rim.

All in all, Naptown_Seth is right. Our defense is indeed epic. It's very, very encouranging to me. It shows that if we could make our defense average (because right now it's not even below average, it's abysmal) then we could have a great season. It gives me hope.

To wrap it up, allow me to present you with a bonus category ;)

Fouls per Game:

1) San Antonio: 17.7

2) Atlanta: 18.5

3) Brooklyn: 18.6

4) New York: 18.9

5) Chicago: 19

6) Philadelphia: 19.1

7) Indiana: 19.2

---

27) Golden State: 23.6

28) Sacramento: 23.7

29) Toronto: 23.8

30) LA Clippers: 23.9

Want me to remind you last year's rankings in this category?

1) LA Lakers: 17.2

2) Chicago: 17.5

3) Philadelphia: 17.7

4) Orlando: 17.8

4) San Antonio: 17.8

6) Atlanta: 18

---

27) Clippers: 21.6

28) Indiana: 21.7

28) Utah: 21.7

30) Toronto: 23.2

Last year we were tied with Utah at 28th. This year we are 7th. Fouling less is a big reason why our defensive numbers have skyrocketed.

PS: As always, all the stats I posted are posted in www.teamrankings.com

PS II: Sorry for the huge post. I didn't really plan it to be this long.

docpaul
11-29-2012, 08:54 PM
Epic post, Nuntius. Thanks!

To me, the interesting stats related to # of points in the paint and points on the break.

However, I can't tell from these data whether they're all relative to the low opponent total points per game and the proportionate nature of stats in relation to that, or whether there are specific statistical outliers.

Per the great site you pointed me to, opponents shoot a relatively lower percentage of 3point shots than average against us. However, we might be able to really hone in on something, if we could relate these data to shot distribution data. Something like this:

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/team-vs-team.html#Pacers-vs-Lakers|1610612754,1610612747;year=201112;season=r

If you could just get these numbers of shots per zone accumulated for all teams, I think that'd get it done.

McKeyFan
11-29-2012, 08:56 PM
Could it be our opponents miss because they are slightly more tired? Might our grind out the shot clock offense wear teams down?

docpaul
11-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Ah hah. I think I finally found a good statistic:

http://www.hoopdata.com/oteamshotlocs.aspx

Most teams take the majority of their shots against us as long 2's. Sort this table by attempted 16-23 ft shots, and you'll see that we lead the NBA.

Those are the poorest shots on the floor.

Nice.

PaceBalls
11-29-2012, 09:08 PM
That was a very interesting read Nuntius. Being near the bottom in turnovers yet having the best fast break defense is pretty freaking awesome. Remember the days of players whining to the refs after a turnover and not getting back on D? That's not happening much with these guys.

This team is much better than a lot of the board is giving them credit for. Yea the offense is ugly at times, but these guys are bringing it on D. Honestly, I'd rather have a tenacious D than a solid offense, I think the offense is easier to fix as well. If/when we get Danny back things will really come together.

docpaul
11-29-2012, 09:23 PM
Could it be our opponents miss because they are slightly more tired? Might our grind out the shot clock offense wear teams down?

It might even be simpler than that. It might be simply because they're forcing players away from the basket. Opponents are taking harder shots as a result, and keeping them off the perimeter allows the Pacers to avoid the offset bonus from making a three.

So, the reason it seems like opponents are getting open looks and missing more often, is that the Pacers are encouraging them to shoot unguarded in a part of the court that has the lowest potential of generating scoring value and is simply harder to convert in.

Said in another way: the defense is predicated on extra investments on preventing opponent's high ROI behaviors: like converting a fast break, points in the paint, and three point plays.

aamcguy
11-29-2012, 10:31 PM
It might even be simpler than that. It might be simply because they're forcing players away from the basket. Opponents are taking harder shots as a result, and keeping them off the perimeter allows the Pacers to avoid the offset bonus from making a three.

So, the reason it seems like opponents are getting open looks and missing more often, is that the Pacers are encouraging them to shoot unguarded in a part of the court that has the lowest potential of generating scoring value and is simply harder to convert in.

Said in another way: the defense is predicated on extra investments on preventing opponent's high ROI behaviors: like converting a fast break, points in the paint, and three point plays.

Also another bonus for picking up Ian. Our 7'2" center goes out of the game, but the paint still doesn't open up because his backup is an athletic 6'11". Kinda scary, but if Granger was our 2nd wing even if our offense was still terrible we would still be generating more TOs and more points because our defense would be even better.

BobbyMac
11-29-2012, 10:34 PM
lmao @ Kobe's reaction

i always want Joey to ref any games we have with elite teams, he doesn't play favorites with them.

Nuntius
11-29-2012, 10:51 PM
Ah hah. I think I finally found a good statistic:

http://www.hoopdata.com/oteamshotlocs.aspx

Most teams take the majority of their shots against us as long 2's. Sort this table by attempted 16-23 ft shots, and you'll see that we lead the NBA.

Those are the poorest shots on the floor.

Nice.

Good catch. That's an extremely interesting table, mate ;)

Let's take a look at what goodies this provides us with:

Allowed shots from 16-23 feet:

1) Indiana: 25.9

2) Washington: 24.2

3) Chicago: 24.0

4) Milwaukee: 22.8

5) San Antonio: 22.3

---

28) Miami: 16.8

29) Portland: 16.8

30) New York: 16.7

League average: 19.6

Allowed shots at the rim:

1) Portland: 28.5 (ring any bells from my last post? ;) )

2) Denver: 28.1

3) Charlotte: 27.9

4) Houston: 27.4

5) Miami: 27.4

---

20) Golden State: 24.6

20) Indiana: 24.6

22) San Antonio: 24.5

23) New York: 23.9

24) Chicago: 23.8

24) Sacramento: 23.8

24) Washington: 23.8

27) Minnesota: 23.7

28) Milwaukee: 23.5

29) LA Clippers: 23.4

30) Cleveland: 20.9

League average: 25.6

But here's where it gets weird. Do you see Cleveland in this last spot? It allows more shots at rim than every other team. However, if you remember my earlier post Cleveland was a negative outlier several times. Wanna know why? Because they allow them to shoot 74.6% at the rim thus converting 15.6 of their 20.9 shots.

Indiana, on the other hand, allows them to shoot 59.4% at the rim. That's the second lowest % only behind Denver's 57.3% (league average: 63.7%)

Leading to the following stat.

Made shots at the rim:

1) Indiana: 14.6

1) Minnesota: 14.6

1) San Antonio: 14.6

4) LA Clippers: 14.7

---

28) Dallas: 17.6

29) Boston: 17.8

30) Portland: 19

League average: 16.3

So, not only we force them to take the majority of the shots from 16-23 feet but we make them miss the majority of the shots that they take at the rim. I believe that this should make us extremely happy. Thanks for the find, docpaul :D

For the sake of completion I'll post our stats in the other categories along with our position in the chart and the league averages:

Shots from 3-9 feet:

Indiana: 3.3 makes (17th), 9.6 allowed (9th), 34.1 FG% (24th)

:League average: 3.5 makes, 9 allowed, 38.6 FG%

We're allowing a bit more shots from that area than the average but we're doing a pretty good job at defending them and thus allow less makes than the average.

Shots from 10-15 feet:

Indiana: 2.1 makes (tied for 19th with 3 other teams), 6.7 allowed (5th), 31.9 FG% (tied for 27th)

League averages: 2.3 makes, 5.9 allowed, 39.4 FG%

Same story. We're allowing a bit more than the average but we're making them shoot below the average thus resulting in less makes.

Let's revisit the shots from 16-23 feet:

Indiana: 9.2 makes (tied for 2nd), 25.9 allowed (1st), 35.6 FG%

League averages: 7.3 makes, 19.6 allowed, 37.5 FG%

As noted, we allow a lot more shots than the average and that also results in more makes for the opposition. However, we're allowing a lower FG% than the league average so we're still doing a good job here.

Three point shots:

Indiana: 5.6 makes (tied for 29th, so essentially 30th), 17.2 attempts (tied for 27th along with 2 other teams, so essentially 29th), 48.5 eFG% (28th, I have no idea why they are posting the eFG% and not the FG%, though)

League average: 7 makes, 19.8 allowed, 53.3 eFG%

We're clearly a lot lower in every category than the league average. We're doing a good job in preventing and defending 3 point opportunities.

So, there you have it, folks. Our defense does a damn good job.

Once again, thanks for the find, docpaul :)

PS: Should we morph those finds into a seperate thread? Maybe a thread that explains statistically what our defense is doing and keeps track of it?

Kid Minneapolis
11-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Been sayin' it all year, our defense so far has been epic --- and we're not even going 100% yet. You all know that this team can take it up several notches come playoff time. We're also beasts in blocks and rebounds. All we gotta do is shore up some semblance of an offense, which we've been making baby strides in lately, and this team is going to be very, very tough.

Coopdog23
11-30-2012, 12:37 PM
Kobe had 40 and they still lost. Lakers are not as good as expected. Pacers have to defend the guards better though.

Eleazar
11-30-2012, 01:00 PM
Kobe had 40 and they still lost. Lakers are not as good as expected. Pacers have to defend the guards better though.

He had 40 on 43% shooter, so it isn't like he just went off on us. He got his 40 by chucking his way to it. Most of them were well contested shots that he just made with a hand in his face. The only way to better defend that is to get a steal or block. Not something I would complain about, but also not necessarily something I would call realistic. For the most part the only people taking wide open shots aid the people you are ok with taking wide open shots because they aren't good shooters, or in the case of Artest consistently good.