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Peck
11-24-2012, 03:52 AM
Well it was fun while it lasted. For about 2 and a half quarters I am sure that most of you were joining me in the thought that “well maybe they have turned the corner”. I mean if the starters can play their normal game and then all of a sudden tonight here comes the bench with its first real solid game. Then maybe the Washington & New Orleans games were real solid building stones and we can go into the west coast riding a 3 game win streak and although we have zero chance of beating the Lakers maybe if we can just catch the Warriors not looking for us and then just beat the Kings then it won’t be bad at all.

Then the last half of the last quarter hit.

We were then treated to the variety & comedy styling that is the Pacers interior offense. I know everybody is going to line up to throw Frank Vogel under the bus but again I ask the same question I’ve asked before. What can any coach, be it Frank or Phil Jackson or even Slick Leonard himself, do when players miss wide open shots and shots right at the rim?

Normally my complaint with Frank is that he lets teams build too many big momentum runs before he calls a time out, tonight I can’t even complain about that because with almost 3 min. left in the game we had no timeouts left. Thank God it didn’t come down to a last second shot that needed a timeout to set up because we didn’t have one.

Yes Roy crapped all over himself, the floor & basketball in general, but let’s not let Mr. Clutch David West off of the hook either. He walked up to the free throw line with the ability to cut into the lead and he had all the poise & confidence of Calvin Murphy however he had the shooting ability of Chris Dudley. He then proceeded to miss what seemed like 1,000 shots right at the rim to match Roy Hibbert shot for shot in ineptitude.

However while both of them were nauseating in their own way there was a stretch prior to this where Paul George all but gave back the entire lead in a series of events that I like to call “see Paul shrink in the face of adversity”. Not only did his man hit a pretty much uncontested three Paul then decides to demonstrate his off season ball handling improvement by losing the ball in the backcourt to his player who then proceeds to score again thus giving the spurs a quick 5-0 run. Somewhere along the way Paul fouls for the and one giving them a quick 8 points.

No they weren’t all Happy Day’s.

It’s a darn shame to because up until the collapse this was without question the single best overall game the Pacers have put together all season long and as is becoming a tradition on the Thanksgiving weekend games they also had a big crowd in the house for this. I am just eternally grateful that at the very least the team competed and did not get blown out of the water early on. At least the casual in attendance tonight had to at least feel like the team competed, which they did.

There are a lot of good things that happened tonight I just wish that our next game wasn’t against the Lakers who will be out for blood because that will be two losses in a row and all of the momentum that we might have built will probably be gone.

That’s what makes those early season losses against the Raptors, Wolves and Bobcats so hard to swallow. Now the schedule turns to much tougher competition and we didn’t take advantage of the early soft schedule we had. Oh well can’t cry about it now, we just have to start winning and there really is no other way to put it.

BTW we missed 7 free throws tonight; the margin of victory for the Spurs was 7. I know we are not going to hit 100% of our free throw attempts but we have got to start improving from the line & our starters (minus David West) need to start getting to the line more.

Let’s just do some quick grades.

David West: B

I know some think it should be higher but his late game collapse combined with his absolute inability to rotate on defense tonight to help with penetration drags his score down. He did hit some nice face up jumpers that he had been missing and he did help provide some solid physical play down low.

Paul George: B

I was happy that he didn’t come out and start settling for the three point shot. I figured after the other night we would be treated to a 10+ from distance tonight. He got lost a couple of times on defense but he also seemed better at moving without the ball tonight than he has in awhile. Still though that colossal mental lapse at the end of the 4th was pretty damaging to the team.

Roy Hibbert: D

There is nothing wrong with passing out of the post if you get an offensive rebound. You don’t always have to go right back up with it. Solid defense for the most part but also it can’t be denied he probably shot us out of the game (with a lot of help from David West) at the end. He has got to start getting a more diverse offensive game. His one handed hook shots aren’t working so let’s try something, anything, else.

Lance Stephenson: B

We run no plays for the guy, which makes all of the points he scores pretty much something he has created. We all saw the play and yes the only two things missing was for there to be some dude with a mic running up & down the court going “Born Ready Boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii” and for lance to put the ball on the ground and dance around it. Yes it was a Rucker Park move and yes it was fun to watch. But beyond that I want to make this statement. Lance for all of his flash and sizzle has some real solid steak behind him as well. Quietly while no one was watching he kept his man out of the game on the defensive end; remember Genobili was Paul’s man not Lance. I really like the progression he is giving us this season.

Tyler Hansbrough: A

Rebounds R Us at your service. He was ripping rebounds out of there like they were nuggets of pure gold and these were not the chase down the loose ball variety rebound either. This was I’m going up & ripping this out of the sky and nobody is going to get it away from me type rebounds. Also I can’t praise enough the effort he put in to out running Tony Parker (yes you read that right) and getting back on defense blocking Parker and getting the ball back to us. Amazingly this season he has improved so much at defense and rebounding that somehow he has lost the ability to hit that face up 15’ jumper he used to be good at. Tyler will have a very nice long career if he accepts that rebounding, defense and physical play are his forte’.

D.J. Augustin: A+

As Hick’s who was sitting with me tonight said “he’s a pretty good point guard when he’s breathing oxygen”. By far and not even a close second anywhere to be found this was his best game as a Pacer. He led the offensive attack and he wasn’t a complete sieve on defense either. Yes I’m being overly generous with the grade because it really wasn’t an A+ game but with what we’ve gotten from him up till now believe me it was an A+ game for him.

Ian Mahinmi: B+

For a short span there actually resembled the player we saw in pre-season. He was hitting some shots, he was getting a few rebounds and he was contesting the Spurs shots in the paint. Not a perfect game mind you but it was also an improvement over what we have been getting.

Gerald Green: C+

He does what he does. Hit some decent shots including a big 3 in the 3rd to get our run really rolling. His defense is stable if unspectacular but I don’t know there is just something about him that I can never put my finger on. I don’t dislike him but for whatever reason I tend to want to get Lance or Paul back in as soon as possible.

Sam Young: C+

He hit the other big three that got our run going in the 3rd. On the other hand for whatever reason I trust Sam. I don’t want him ever passing the ball & I really don’t love the idea of him shooting other than to open up the floor a little but I guess I just like to see him go at it on the defensive end. He’s very physical for a small forward. But he is what he is and that is not a starter or a big min. player. I don’t like it when Frank uses him over Lance to end a game.

It’s funny when you look at the grades you would think we would have won this game.

I want to say one brief thing about the Spurs before I go. I respect them as a great team. To quote Bret Hart they are the Excellence of Execution. They are also a very physical team, which would surprise you if you didn’t know it. They hit very hard the cutters, they use their hands and lower body’s to move you out of position and yes when they can’t get the advantage via leverage they are not above either flopping or frankly playing a little dirty. Nothing to bad but they like to slap at people and hold people. Everybody looks at Genobili as the main culprit of this but I’m here to tell you Tim Duncan is as bad as any of them are. He will body up a player like he were Shaq himself until he can’t get the leverage or angle and then he falls back as though he were hit in the chest with a shot gun slug.

So yes all hail to the Spurs, I take nothing away from their greatness. But they certainly are not angels either.

The Spurs continue to be our downfall though.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xPU8OAjjS4k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On to the Lake show.

McKeyFan
11-24-2012, 08:07 AM
Gerald Green: C+

He does what he does. Hit some decent shots including a big 3 in the 3rd to get our run really rolling. His defense is stable if unspectacular but I don’t know there is just something about him that I can never put my finger on. I don’t dislike him but for whatever reason I tend to want to get Lance or Paul back in as soon as possible.

Extremely low ball IQ. I remember a few of them growing up. Athletic freaks with super hops who for some reason never played much organized ball. Maybe they ran track or something. When they do play a season or two or play pickup, they are clueless--kind of hover around the perimeter looking for the ball--hoping at some point for a chance to dunk or something.

Kind of like a great looking girl who has no clue of the struggle to find a date. A uber athlete like Green got so much affirmation for the circus tricks that he never spent much time understanding the actual game. He may have in the past three or four years, but most players have a decade or more behind their belts.

RWB
11-24-2012, 09:01 AM
Can't give up on this team as they really need your money by evidence of the half time entertainment. Maybe the Boy Scout Oath will be planned for the Portland game.:D

Simply the Spurs are better, a well oiled machine, and as Peck alluded to they get by with a physical style of basketball the Pacers can't match and it seems the Refs let go at times in my opinion (no I'm not blaming them for the loss).

LoneGranger33
11-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Did George Hill receive an "I" for incomplete, or was he expelled after the 1st quarter for limiting Parker to 16 points on 9 shots?

Larry Staverman
11-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Roy Hibbert: D

He has got to start getting a more diverse offensive game. His one handed hook shots aren’t working so let’s try something, anything, else.


How does a 7' 2" center who gets 7 offensive rebounds and tries to score on each of them not shoot one free throw?

Someone please teach Roy to gather himself and go up strong with two hands instead of flipping up the one handed b.s. shots

Pacerized
11-24-2012, 11:06 AM
I don't know that I'd give DJ an A+ but I'll agree that he had a good game, Ian as well. They both have a long way to go to prove dumping DC for DJ and giving Ian a 4 year deal was a good move. Maybe something like 5 good games to 13 bad games instead of 1.
I don't want to jinx it but I think it's time for Tyler's critics to give him props. The guy has consistently played harder this year then anyone on the team. I'd like to have seen him take a few more shots last night but great job on the glass. I wish we could find a way to give him more playing time

Trader Joe
11-24-2012, 11:38 AM
Remember when there was this belief around here that George Hill was a defensive stopper at PG...yeah....about that...

imawhat
11-24-2012, 12:02 PM
He was. I think his defense goes on the milk carton that Augustin was on. He has been getting Collison torched this season on the ball (off the ball is still good).

Hicks
11-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Do we feel like he's getting burned every game, or only by the quicker guards? Because typically quick point guards in the NBA burn everybody when they use their speed to drive by.

Eleazar
11-24-2012, 12:40 PM
Remember when there was this belief around here that George Hill was a defensive stopper at PG...yeah....about that...

He was always touted as a good defender, but I don't remember many, if any, say he was a defensive stopper.

flox
11-24-2012, 03:23 PM
Do we feel like he's getting burned every game, or only by the quicker guards? Because typically quick point guards in the NBA burn everybody when they use their speed to drive by.

as far as remember, he's always been better on combo 1/2s and 2s than 1s, and it shows against elite 1s.

BlueCollarColts
11-24-2012, 03:35 PM
we have zero chance of beating the Lakers because?............... aren't they 6-7???

OlBlu
11-24-2012, 03:36 PM
we have zero chance of beating the Lakers because?............... aren't they 6-7???

The Pacers have a chance of beating any team or losing to any team with Granger out.....:cool:

BlueCollarColts
11-24-2012, 03:41 PM
The Pacers have a chance of beating any team or losing to any team with Granger out.....:cool:
agreed, anybody who says the Lakers are a team we have no chance to beat needs to catch up on their NBA knowledge this year, because they aren't that good plus Steve Nash is out

OlBlu
11-24-2012, 03:43 PM
agreed, anybody who says the Lakers are a team we have no chance to beat needs to catch up on their NBA knowledge this year, because they aren't that good plus Steve Nash is out

The Lakers are that good but they got off to a slow start, they are adjusting to new players, learning a new system and they are capable of blowing out any team in the NBA with or without Nash...:cool:

ColeTheMole
11-24-2012, 05:18 PM
At least it was nice to see Augustin do something well. He looked a lot more aggressive on all fronts.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 06:34 PM
as far as remember, he's always been better on combo 1/2s and 2s than 1s, and it shows against elite 1s.

He was really good last year against PGs, but he was facing mainly backups.

I thought he'd be a lot better than he has on D this year. I don't see him really digging in (i.e. trying) as much as I'd like. He seems disinterested to me on defense at times. With that said, it's got to be demoralizing trying to defend the pick and roll with David and Roy, and that's when he seems to struggle the most.

Naptown_Seth
11-24-2012, 06:49 PM
D.J. Augustin: A+

As Hick’s who was sitting with me tonight said “he’s a pretty good point guard when he’s breathing oxygen”. By far and not even a close second anywhere to be found this was his best game as a Pacer. He led the offensive attack and he wasn’t a complete sieve on defense either. Yes I’m being overly generous with the grade because it really wasn’t an A+ game but with what we’ve gotten from him up till now believe me it was an A+ game for him.
I've only been able to see the last bit that I saw live, but whenever you let your man separate from you by a good 10 feet on nothing but his dribble, ie no pick needed, and go right to the lane unchallenged late in a close game, you can not in any good conscience be given an A+. I swear at one point DJ intentionally moved away from Parker ala Troy Murphy.

DJ is setting a record for worst defensive effort of all time. I'm slipping from "well yes he hurts on that end, but his passing" and moving into "why even bother going to that end of the court DJ, enough with the sham".




Dunleavy, who by the way I felt wasn't a very smart basketball player.
I agree. Massively overrated. One of his dependable plays was the pass to the other team while still in the backcourt. He did it all the time, almost every game it seemed.

Shooters who move off of screens to get open jumpers are not smart in my opinion. I consider that action mostly neutral and to be a taught, specific behavior that can be done regardless of any awareness or appropriateness to the particular offensive set being run.

As it happens smart players will do this as one of the weapons they utilize (going off screens, making space) and because of this it gets folded into the idea that all players doing this have great awareness in total. But it's really like assuming all shot blockers have great defensive awareness. Some do, but that doesn't mean all do.



I need to watch the good potion (first 2.5 quarters) to see what worked well. Maybe this game wasn't quite the end of turning the corner but I think it showed that they are in fact in that process. They are getting more competitive and able to suppress the offensive ineptness for 12-15 minutes at a time.

Naptown_Seth
11-24-2012, 06:58 PM
we have zero chance of beating the Lakers because?............... aren't they 6-7???
Exactly, what part isn't clear?

;)


But it does make for an odd game. Two teams massively under-performing early on. The last few years this challenge has been one where I'd say they could win, especially JOB's last year where I was one of the few strongly standing by their chance to win because I believed in the talent. It was a mark of validation for the team.

Now it's just as winnable, and yet it's no longer a validation of talent but instead will simply mark the absence of proof of futility if they win.

3rdStrike
11-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Extremely low ball IQ. I remember a few of them growing up. Athletic freaks with super hops who for some reason never played much organized ball. Maybe they ran track or something. When they do play a season or two or play pickup, they are clueless--kind of hover around the perimeter looking for the ball--hoping at some point for a chance to dunk or something.



For the record, this is not even accurate regarding Gerald Green. It's just the popular misconception, kind of like when everyone rode the "Lance sucks, will never amount to anything, has a horrible attitude and should be cut ASAP because I don't know why but just do it" bandwagon. There is no honest, objective evaluation going on in either case. I understand reputation precedes, but before bestowing such semi-permanent labels on players at least have analysis to base it on. "I feel like he doesn't do x" or "there's just something about him," doesn't cut it. I mean, it does. It's just a very ignorant thing to do, because it lacks substantial analysis. And if we're making definitive statements about professionals sans analysis, what's the point?

Gerald Green's shot selection and spacing have been good, dare I say excellent so far this year. Certainly the best of our bench players. He's been moving around, bringing the ball up court when needed (but not when the point guard is open), hitting the open man, cutting and dishing, taking good threes. He needs to be more aggressive (this has nothing to do with "bball IQ" and everything to do with coaches orders, as he had no problem being aggressive with moderate PT on his previous teams). Is he a complete player? No. Do I wish he was a little faster or was better at taking his man off the dribble or played really good defense? Certainly. But he is hardly hovering "around the perimeter looking for the ball--hoping at some point for a chance to dunk something." It's absolutely non-factual. It's funny how he's portrayed in that manner yet Leandro Barbosa last year had some of the worst shot selection I can recall seeing from a regular and many on this board wish he was still a Pacer. Perception is everything, eh?

Green is shooting 46% over the past 5 games, and that's with limited shots. He's still giving us 8 ppg and 4.3 reb off the bench. Not sure how many backup 3's in the league are even doing that, and this is with him working his way out of a slump and getting inconsistent minutes (as only Frank Vogel can provide). Let's drop the witch hunt and let the man play, make actual observations instead of hazy, hasty characterizations.

That's all I have to say about that.

Kemo
11-24-2012, 08:14 PM
http://youtu.be/cLBVomNU__U

able
11-24-2012, 08:44 PM
i can delete multiple posts at a time, so i can delete faster than you can post, keep it basketball only or you have to find another board to post on.

we have very very long standing rules about that crap and answering is just as bad as starting it, so don't even start to tempt me.

Trader Joe
11-24-2012, 08:46 PM
He was. I think his defense goes on the milk carton that Augustin was on. He has been getting Collison torched this season on the ball (off the ball is still good).

Hmmm, I dunno, I think you might find if you go back and sift through the tape that him being a "great" defender has always been a bit of a myth. He makes some plays cause of his length and athleticism that Collison can't but fundamentally he's always been shaky

Peck
11-24-2012, 09:04 PM
I've only been able to see the last bit that I saw live, but whenever you let your man separate from you by a good 10 feet on nothing but his dribble, ie no pick needed, and go right to the lane unchallenged late in a close game, you can not in any good conscience be given an A+. I swear at one point DJ intentionally moved away from Parker ala Troy Murphy.

DJ is setting a record for worst defensive effort of all time. I'm slipping from "well yes he hurts on that end, but his passing" and moving into "why even bother going to that end of the court DJ, enough with the sham".

Yea an A+ was way over the top. But believe me as bad as he has played all season his offensive production was a joy to behold for a short time. I've just come to expect that from him on defense so it didn't bother me as much as it did you.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 09:11 PM
For the record, this is not even accurate regarding Gerald Green. It's just the popular misconception, kind of like when everyone rode the "Lance sucks, will never amount to anything, has a horrible attitude and should be cut ASAP because I don't know why but just do it" bandwagon. There is no honest, objective evaluation going on in either case. I understand reputation precedes, but before bestowing such semi-permanent labels on players at least have analysis to base it on. "I feel like he doesn't do x" or "there's just something about him," doesn't cut it. I mean, it does. It's just a very ignorant thing to do, because it lacks substantial analysis. And if we're making definitive statements about professionals sans analysis, what's the point? Let's drop the witch hunt and let the man play, make actual observations instead of hazy, hasty characterizations.

That's all I have to say about that.

If the evidence presented so far isn't enough to convince you "he makes bad basketball decisions", and there has been plenty discussed in this thread already, explain how a player with elite shooting and athletic ability has failed to find a home in this league until now? Don't get me wrong I like him and haven't given up on him (it's way too early for that), but all signs so far point to there being no misconception.

Pacer Fan
11-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Frank lost control of the game, I wish you could see that. I know a coach can't control a players wide open miss. But, His subs was terrible and he done nothing to change the pace of the game between all his early timeouts. Which, would have been awful if Pacers had a chance at the end and needed that last crucial timeout and wouldn't have had one. Why pull Lance and Hans out when they was balling is beyond me. Hans was showing the aggression and grabbing rebounds like a kid grabbing candy in a candy store. Lance was straight up balling and Spurs had no answer for him and it took the refs to slow him down and then Frank to put the chains on the beast. Ian was playing aggressively and doing quite well but to leave Hibbert on the bench so long is just ridiculous. He needs more time to get going and by the time he comes in the ball is always force to him, This is unacceptable, Hibbert should always be in at the 8:30 mark unless he is in foul trouble.

cdash
11-24-2012, 09:25 PM
If the evidence presented so far isn't enough to convince you "he makes bad basketball decisions", and there has been plenty discussed in this thread already, explain how a player with elite shooting and athletic ability has failed to find a home in this league until now? Don't get me wrong I like him and haven't given up on him (it's way too early for that), but all signs so far point to there being no misconception.

I don't know why my original post on this subject got deleted, besides it being the wrong digest, but I basically agreed with this. He just seems lost in a structured offense. When I say "structured offense" I mean offensive sets. His shot selection is fine and when it is one on one against his defender he usually fares well. Defensively, again, one on one he is fairly passable, but he gets lost running through screens and seems to have low awareness of where the ball is if the guy he is defending does not have it.

clownskull
11-24-2012, 10:45 PM
How does a 7' 2" center who gets 7 offensive rebounds and tries to score on each of them not shoot one free throw?

Someone please teach Roy to gather himself and go up strong with two hands instead of flipping up the one handed b.s. shots

yeah, that is one of the most aggravating things about roy. those wimpy shots won't cut it. he needs to go strong.

CJ Jones
11-25-2012, 12:47 AM
I don't know why my original post on this subject got deleted, besides it being the wrong digest, but I basically agreed with this. He just seems lost in a structured offense. When I say "structured offense" I mean offensive sets. His shot selection is fine and when it is one on one against his defender he usually fares well. Defensively, again, one on one he is fairly passable, but he gets lost running through screens and seems to have low awareness of where the ball is if the guy he is defending does not have it.

Exactly. The guy basically lost a game for us because of his low awareness on defense. He does these hilarious slow motion fake cuts before he starts an offensive set that never work and only slow down the offense. A few games ago he was yelling at Mahinmi when it looked like he was the one messing up the plays. There's plenty of evidence so far that "he makes bad basketball decisions." Then again there's plenty of time to get it figured out. A lot of our guys have underachieved so far this season so I'm not too down on him.

Trader Joe
11-25-2012, 01:52 AM
Is there no way to remove the the this message has been deleted by X message?

D-BONE
11-25-2012, 08:38 AM
For the record, this is not even accurate regarding Gerald Green. It's just the popular misconception, kind of like when everyone rode the "Lance sucks, will never amount to anything, has a horrible attitude and should be cut ASAP because I don't know why but just do it" bandwagon. There is no honest, objective evaluation going on in either case. I understand reputation precedes, but before bestowing such semi-permanent labels on players at least have analysis to base it on. "I feel like he doesn't do x" or "there's just something about him," doesn't cut it. I mean, it does. It's just a very ignorant thing to do, because it lacks substantial analysis. And if we're making definitive statements about professionals sans analysis, what's the point?

Gerald Green's shot selection and spacing have been good, dare I say excellent so far this year. Certainly the best of our bench players. He's been moving around, bringing the ball up court when needed (but not when the point guard is open), hitting the open man, cutting and dishing, taking good threes. He needs to be more aggressive (this has nothing to do with "bball IQ" and everything to do with coaches orders, as he had no problem being aggressive with moderate PT on his previous teams). Is he a complete player? No. Do I wish he was a little faster or was better at taking his man off the dribble or played really good defense? Certainly. But he is hardly hovering "around the perimeter looking for the ball--hoping at some point for a chance to dunk something." It's absolutely non-factual. It's funny how he's portrayed in that manner yet Leandro Barbosa last year had some of the worst shot selection I can recall seeing from a regular and many on this board wish he was still a Pacer. Perception is everything, eh?

Green is shooting 46% over the past 5 games, and that's with limited shots. He's still giving us 8 ppg and 4.3 reb off the bench. Not sure how many backup 3's in the league are even doing that, and this is with him working his way out of a slump and getting inconsistent minutes (as only Frank Vogel can provide). Let's drop the witch hunt and let the man play, make actual observations instead of hazy, hasty characterizations.

That's all I have to say about that.

I wasn't hoping for 8 pts and 4 bds in 24 mins from Green. Nor were my expectations that he would likely challenge for SMOTY. But his minutes are also down to 17 per over the last week. That tells me that he's not doing something the coaches are looking for.

He may improve as the season progresses, but if 8 pts, 4 bds, and his general current level of play are acceptable, then I'd gladly take back Barbosa. Yes, he was horrid against Miami, but he did play a significant role in our late season stretch heading into the playoffs.

Right now, Green isn't playing a significant contributing role in anything and it's become painfully obvious he's a one - dimensional player (scoring/stand still shooting). Can't pass well (that we have plenty of evidence of) not adept at putting the ball on the floor (you admit this yourself), marginal defender, especially off the ball, and now this from Vogel, which also contradicts to some degree your assertion as to Green's shot selection and lack of aggressiveness:


Green attempts "two or three bad shots a game," according to Indiana head coach Frank Vogel, the Indianapolis Star reports. "He wants to carry his own weight and his aggressiveness is leading him into a couple of forces," said Vogel. "He just has to settle down with his shot selections."

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/122415/playersearch?&search=gerald%20green&sort=NAME&sdir=1&stat1=S_AS_2012&jsenabled=1

So you want him to be more aggressive but the HC sees that as his issue right now. Let's also not forget he was touted early in the season to shoulder a lot of the weight of the loss of DG's offense, but he's got double figures in 3 of 14 games.

Again, this to some extent is attributable to unrealistic expectations and talent evaluation by media, fans, and/or front office. I am hopeful he progresses and works through some of this to realize some of his POTENTIAL, but it's certainly not ignorant to suggest he's got issues with decision making/playing within the offense and some other aspects of his performance and real impact on our play. If you want to find "evidence" it's not hard to come by.

Ace E.Anderson
11-25-2012, 10:23 AM
Remember when there was this belief around here that George Hill was a defensive stopper at PG...yeah....about that...

His defense is cool, it's when he has to play pick and roll defense with slow footed bigs. Our bigs, ESP Roy, are too slow to show and then allow George to get back to his man. George can be slow getting through a million picks in one possession. Quick Guys like Jennings and Parker are gonna thrive off that.

Parker did the same thing to Rondo, who's regarded as an elite defensive player. We are one of the best defenses in the league, it's tough to do that when you have a PG that's horrible on D.

Even a Hill apologist can see he needs to be more aggressive both offensively and defensively.