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View Full Version : This needs to become Stephenson's team



Pacergeek
11-23-2012, 11:39 PM
It's clear that Lance is without question our best player at creating their own shot. This is a player that ignites his teammates. Tonight, Lance sparked a run that pushed our lead to 17pts. He was then quickly and stupidly subbed out of the game, and we lost all of our momentum. It seems like whenever he is playing with the starters, he rarely gets the ball. There was one play in the fourth quarter where George Hill ignored Lance completely while he was wide open. When the game is on the line, we like to go to Hill and George from the perimeter. I'm not so sure I'm at all comfortable with Paul George getting touches on all these critical possessions because he turns it over way too much. Lance has proven himself in a limited role, that he deserves to be a much bigger part of the offense

1984
11-23-2012, 11:44 PM
Let's give him the max.

McKeyFan
11-23-2012, 11:45 PM
Let's give him the max.
I bet there are a number of folks that would prefer Lance got Roy's money and Roy's touches.

imawhat
11-23-2012, 11:46 PM
We've got a long way before it becomes Lance's team. He's still working on getting a 2nd or 3rd link for his leash.

vnzla81
11-23-2012, 11:47 PM
His value would never be this high again lets trade him...

McKeyFan
11-23-2012, 11:50 PM
His value would never be this high again lets trade him...
Wrong wing man.

McKeyFan
11-23-2012, 11:51 PM
We've got a long way before it becomes Lance's team. He's still working on getting a 2nd or 3rd link for his leash.

Free Lance!

LoneGranger33
11-23-2012, 11:52 PM
I bet there are a number of folks that would prefer Lance got Roy's money and Roy's touches.

Not Roy's money, but Hill's money might get some takers.

Anthem
11-23-2012, 11:52 PM
In all seriousness, I'm not sure why he keeps sitting for Sam Young. I'm not saying put him ahead of PG24 or David West, but Sam Young?

imawhat
11-23-2012, 11:55 PM
I understand when we need good defense, but when it's offense or energy Lance needs to be in there.

It was really unfortunate that the refs bought Ginobili's flop that got Lance t'd up. We pulled Lance right after that and things started going downhill.

Our team is pretty emotional, meaning they play well when they're revved up. Lance is pretty key to that, even when he gets out of control. I'd say that's his biggest impact this year, because we're a pretty flatlined team right now.

Heisenberg
11-23-2012, 11:57 PM
I understand when we need good defense, but when it's offense or energy Lance needs to be in there.

It was really unfortunate that the refs bought Ginobili's flop that got Lance t'd up. We pulled Lance right after that and things started going downhill.

Our team is pretty emotional, meaning they play well when they're revved up. Lance is pretty key to that, even when he gets out of control. I'd say that's his biggest impact this year, because we're a pretty flatlined team right now.
Even if Manu hadn't flopped I don't understand a tech there at all. Only thing I can think of is Lance had been jawing to the guy or something and said the magic word/s.

BlueNGold
11-23-2012, 11:59 PM
While we lost because San Antonio pulled out their scalpel and cut us to pieces, Lance is the best creator on this team and given more time at the PG position, he may be the man.

1984
11-24-2012, 12:03 AM
I get what you're saying, and I by no means intend to mock you. What this team needs is a go to player, especially in crunch time. What so many fans did not realize was Granger's identity as 'the man'. It was Danny who received the ball at crunch time and Danny who gave this time swagger. Without Danny there is no wag in our swag, just a lot of sag.

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 12:08 AM
I get what you're saying, and I by no means intend to mock you. What this team needs is a go to player, especially in crunch time. What so many fans did not realize was Granger's identity as 'the man'. It was Danny who received the ball at crunch time and Danny who gave this time swagger. Without Danny there is no wag in our swag, just a lot of sag.

Agreed on Danny, but Danny isn't available and this team lacks the ability to create shots and it does not have anyone with PG skills not named Lance Stephenson. This is coming from a former Lance basher...who cannot deny the truth.

Nuntius
11-24-2012, 12:24 AM
I'm sold on Lance. He can create. We need to utilize him more. Ow, and let's praise Bird one more time.

rexnom
11-24-2012, 12:32 AM
Based off of tonight's game, I'd say Augustin is our best creator. And he was definitely the spark in both halves.

Lance still has a ways to go but he's well on his way to first guy off the bench scorer type. That's what we should hope/expect from him.

The Sam Young thing is puzzling. Not sure what he does well. I guess he cuts nicely and gets back door but what else does he do at an above average NBA-level?

Eleazar
11-24-2012, 12:34 AM
Based off of tonight's game, I'd say Augustin is our best creator. And he was definitely the spark in both halves.

Lance still has a ways to go but he's well on his way to first guy off the bench scorer type. That's what we should hope/expect from him.

The Sam Young thing is puzzling. Not sure what he does well. I guess he cuts nicely and gets back door but what else does he do at an above average NBA-level?

Sam Young is a solid defender. So it makes since to play him when defense is needed. When it is offense though he should be behind both Lance and Green.

Nuntius
11-24-2012, 12:35 AM
I guess he cuts nicely and gets back door but what else does he do at an above average NBA-level?

He is a good defender. He plays straight up most of the time and isn't prone on mental lapses on the defensive end. He is also quite good in getting himself open.

I agree that Lance should have Young's usage but it's not like Young is out there chucking it. He just gets open most of the time and fires open shots.

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 12:40 AM
I think people (including myself) underestimated how much he could improve. I think we bought his nickname, Born Ready. When he wasn't ready out of the gate we said AHHH! Dude does not have it.

But again, we assumed too much with him. Lance has made adjustments. Adjustments along with a commitment that I did not think he had. I always knew he had the flash, but he looks like he is capable of playing under control (in his own way) while being effective...maybe very effective. It's time to hand the keys over and see how the young man can drive. Let George Hill zip around and play SG for the rest of the year..and maybe accept bullet passes from #1. If it's not working, revert back and hope Danny is available in 2013.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:45 AM
Let's not pretend Lance didn't put himself behind the 8 ball with the fanbase before he ever even suited up. That plays a large role in the amount of dislike for him.

Did for me anyway.

Pacergeek
11-24-2012, 12:46 AM
In all seriousness, I'm not sure why he keeps sitting for Sam Young. I'm not saying put him ahead of PG24 or David West, but Sam Young?

I am saying put Lance in over PG24. Free Lance!

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 12:50 AM
Let's not pretend Lance didn't put himself behind the 8 ball with the fanbase before he ever even suited up. That plays a large role in the amount of dislike for him.

Did for me anyway.

Very true. I had the same thoughts. But given his off court record, I have forgiven and forgot that. He has a clean slate in my book...

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:53 AM
Very true. I had the same thoughts. But given his off court record, I have forgiven and forgot that. He has a clean slate in my book...
I don't want to rehash the whole thing and I hope it doesn't become that, but I more or less agree, I guess. He's been nothing but a model citizen and pro far as we know in his time here since then so I'm willing to evaluate him based on nothing but his on floor merits. And they're very good and he should not be sitting for Sam Young, and I like Young.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 12:53 AM
We've got a long way before it becomes Lance's team. He's still working on getting a 2nd or 3rd link for his leash.

I'm trying to figure out why he's still on the leash when guys like Paul and Green constantly break plays and get sloppy with the ball and never get punished for it. Lance has nearly a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio (should be higher if teammates weren't broke), he's taking care of the ball. He's almost too careful with the ball trying to play within the system. Even when he does break a play and do something off the cuff he's the only guy on the team that can make it work.

FREE LANCE!!!!!!

cdash
11-24-2012, 01:00 AM
I don't get this. I mean, he's been a pleasant surprise, but I'm not ready to start a movement over the guy.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 01:00 AM
I don't get this. I mean, he's been a pleasant surprise, but I'm not ready to start a movement over the guy.you see that crossover tonight son?!

cdash
11-24-2012, 01:04 AM
you see that crossover tonight son?!

Yeah, I did, it was a sick highlight, but I just don't see a huge problem with the way we are using him now.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 01:05 AM
Yeah, I did, it was a sick highlight, but I just don't see a huge problem with the way we are using him now.
I agree, shoulda made it green. Bring the moods back so I can make mine Sarcastic.

PGisthefuture
11-24-2012, 01:13 AM
I don't get this. I mean, he's been a pleasant surprise, but I'm not ready to start a movement over the guy.

I agree. Don't get me wrong, I like Lance, I think he has a lot of skills and potential. I just don't think he's to the point where we just give him the ball and let him go to work. However, I would like to see him more involved on the offensive end. I mean, he's been playing a lot of minutes lately, he's been good and that play tonight was something else. His numbers so far just aren't that great to me, at least not to the point where I want him to be a primary option on offense.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 01:15 AM
I legitimately would like to see a game where we just give it to Lance and tell him to go to work though. Sacto or GS games coming up maybe. Just to see how his approach to the game would differ.

Hicks
11-24-2012, 01:23 AM
Pre-ma-ture.

Eleazar
11-24-2012, 01:25 AM
I would like to see an increase in his usage, but full reigns is to much.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 01:27 AM
I agree. Don't get me wrong, I like Lance, I think he has a lot of skills and potential. I just don't think he's to the point where we just give him the ball and let him go to work. However, I would like to see him more involved on the offensive end. I mean, he's been playing a lot of minutes lately, he's been good and that play tonight was something else. His numbers so far just aren't that great to me, at least not to the point where I want him to be a primary option on offense.

His usage rates a measly 15%... he's doing all he can. I don't have a problem with the way he's being used I just think he could help us more, but we have to let him first. He's still treated differently than the rest of players by Frank too, which I don't understand. I guess he's still trying house break him :whoknows:.

Lance George
11-24-2012, 01:39 AM
Agreed with Eleazar. Making this "Stephenson's team" is way too extreme of a move at this point, but he's certainly played well enough to deserve a bigger role on offense. Let's take it one step at a time.

Miller_time04
11-24-2012, 01:55 AM
Last year I was all for giving lance more mins. I was in love with his court vision and passing and handles. What I didn't think he would ever be was a solid shooter. I'm very happy he's coming along nicely. Larry is looking really smart right now.

billbradley
11-24-2012, 04:48 AM
It's time to tell Lance he's allowed to shoot late.

Pacemaker
11-24-2012, 06:12 AM
I say he should play the same amount of minutes in the second half as he did in the first. Don't cut him short in the second!

2minutes twoa
11-24-2012, 09:55 AM
I get what you're saying, and I by no means intend to mock you. What this team needs is a go to player, especially in crunch time. What so many fans did not realize was Granger's identity as 'the man'. It was Danny who received the ball at crunch time and Danny who gave this time swagger. Without Danny there is no wag in our swag, just a lot of sag.

Reverend Al Sharpton everybody :)

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 10:14 AM
I legitimately would like to see a game where we just give it to Lance and tell him to go to work though. Sacto or GS games coming up maybe. Just to see how his approach to the game would differ.

Agreed. With Granger out, there will be no better time to test things. Also, I don't think many are saying to hand the keys over permanently. If it's not going to work this year, we should be able to tell in a handful of games. If it does work well, it could immediately change this stagnant offense into something that can score late in games when the San Antonio's of the NBA decide to start manning up like last night.

A more conservative approach will be taken when Granger returns...primarily because we will be "good enough". Lance will come off the bench and might find some time with the starters. But he's not going to have the controls in his hands.

Pacergeek
11-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Pre-ma-ture.

How else are we going to score in the fourth quarter of close games? The predictable post up plays to Roy and David aren't working. Paul George has proven he is inept to handle the ball in tight games. Lance can create his own shot, and will find the open man for high percentage shots. Free Lance!

OlBlu
11-24-2012, 01:23 PM
It's clear that Lance is without question our best player at creating their own shot. This is a player that ignites his teammates. Tonight, Lance sparked a run that pushed our lead to 17pts. He was then quickly and stupidly subbed out of the game, and we lost all of our momentum. It seems like whenever he is playing with the starters, he rarely gets the ball. There was one play in the fourth quarter where George Hill ignored Lance completely while he was wide open. When the game is on the line, we like to go to Hill and George from the perimeter. I'm not so sure I'm at all comfortable with Paul George getting touches on all these critical possessions because he turns it over way too much. Lance has proven himself in a limited role, that he deserves to be a much bigger part of the offense

I support this for a different reason. We need a superstar. We can't buy one and we don't get a high enough pick to draft one. We have two players on this team who MIGHT develop into that kind of player and that is PG and Lance. Granger is not going to get better and neither is Hill or West. Perhaps Hibbert can grow a little bit but he is about to the point of "what you see is what you get." I would turn Lance and PG loose to prove that then are not a potential superstar or that they are. That is the only hope the Pacers ever have of being a contender.....:cool:

eric1516
11-24-2012, 01:27 PM
How else are we going to score in the fourth quarter of close games? The predictable post up plays to Roy and David aren't working. Paul George has proven he is inept to handle the ball in tight games. Lance can create his own shot, and will find the open man for high percentage shots. Free Lance!

Agree with all of this and would like to add that Stephenson's energy clearly has an effect on the rest of the players. If he's not hitting a shot I would want him out there just for enthusiasm and spark for the other guys.

DonSwanson
11-24-2012, 01:47 PM
I can now understand why Larry Bird thought Lance was the most talented player on this team, and I happen to agree with him. I am also now starting to view Lance's intangibles as a potential strength rather than a weakness. You want a guy on your team with a little craziness and hyper competitive drive, as long as it is controlled. I am rooting for him and hope that he can continue to stay on track.

RLeWorm
11-24-2012, 02:16 PM
Lance should start at pg! He is the type of player that makes everyone around him better. He can create off the dribble, can actually pass the ball, and he got the vision. He just needs the green light. Once Lance gets the ball he is pushing down the court. His shooting has improved also.

timid
11-24-2012, 04:09 PM
I support this for a different reason. We need a superstar. We can't buy one and we don't get a high enough pick to draft one. We have two players on this team who MIGHT develop into that kind of player and that is PG and Lance. Granger is not going to get better and neither is Hill or West. Perhaps Hibbert can grow a little bit but he is about to the point of "what you see is what you get." I would turn Lance and PG loose to prove that then are not a potential superstar or that they are. That is the only hope the Pacers ever have of being a contender.....:cool:

I actually agree with this...see my PG thread...

BlueCollarColts
11-24-2012, 06:02 PM
there are two reasons why Lance will become our best player IMO, he is the only one who can create his own shot, and he has the killer instinct, he is the only one on the team who has it, he wants the ball, he wants to take the game winning shot, he wants to crush his opponent. I can see Lance being a 19 ppg and 9 apg guy if we start him at point in a few years. He is a better PG than Hill to be honest. I see Paul George as a Joe Johnson type player. His cieling will be as a second option (hopefully to Lance) and can average 16-17 ppg

sportfireman
11-24-2012, 07:07 PM
Lance should start at pg! He is the type of player that makes everyone around him better. He can create off the dribble, can actually pass the ball, and he got the vision. He just needs the green light. Once Lance gets the ball he is pushing down the court. His shooting has improved also.

Lance is leading the team with 47%.... and 13th in the league.

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 07:55 PM
Lance appears to be for real. He is best on the team in FG% and 3PT%. He's 3rd on the team in assists and steals...even though he only plays 24 minutes. Who would have thought that possible just a year ago? We've talked about a few subjective things like him being the best penetrator and passer, which are probably true, but these stats cannot be denied. Lance is hitting shots, passing and driving while defending pretty well and even stealing the ball on occasion. He's been the best thing about this season

I also have to admit the cross-over, drive to the bucket and double clutch layup was one of the exciting plays I've seen during the Granger era. Yes, part of this game is about entertainment and with that Lance definitely delivers.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 07:55 PM
Last night when we got down late in the 1st quarter the camera panned over to the bench where Lance was frustrated about something (I assume they way we we're playing), and while he was talking to Roy and Paul they were just staring off in space looking like lost puppies. Lance seems like he hates to lose while some of our softer players seem like they care more about how they're playing and what the stat sheets gonna look like after a game.

Naptown_Seth
11-24-2012, 08:05 PM
Based off of tonight's game, I'd say Augustin is our best creator. And he was definitely the spark in both halves.

Lance still has a ways to go but he's well on his way to first guy off the bench scorer type. That's what we should hope/expect from him.

The Sam Young thing is puzzling. Not sure what he does well. I guess he cuts nicely and gets back door but what else does he do at an above average NBA-level?
Well he covers every open space within 15 feet of him on either end (ie, cuts and movement on offense) which makes him the perfect compliment player. Lance is the "I'm the star" player and fills a different role.

Sam is a MUCH smarter defender and easily as physical. He's even as physical when it comes to going to the rim...to a fault (ie, charges).

Lance has him as an outside shooter and passer, but again that's a different role. I do prefer to see Lance come in when they need a guy to linger weakside for the spot up 3 to keep teams honest on the doubles, but otherwise I think Lance works best when you have very little other offense out there and need a score.

To me Lance is ahead of DJ, not Sam. DJ is the one that can't make his threes or keep guys from sagging, and hadn't punished anyone prior to the Spurs game (going by comments, haven't see enough yet).

Tom White
11-24-2012, 08:21 PM
Last night when we got down late in the 1st quarter the camera panned over to the bench where Lance was frustrated about something (I assume they way we we're playing), and while he was talking to Roy and Paul they were just staring off in space looking like lost puppies. Lance seems like he hates to lose while some of our softer players seem like they care more about how they're playing and what the stat sheets gonna look like after a game.

Or maybe they just disagreed with what he was saying and didn't want to start something? Or maybe he had been yapping at them too much and they were tuning him out? Or maybe he has bad breath and they were protecting their sense of smell?

Don't take any of that too seriously.

15th parallel
11-24-2012, 08:27 PM
It's not really a problem of giving him the keys. It's more of riding into the momentum. I think Frank should give players more mins in a specific game where they are playing so well. If Lance is playing poorly, limit his limits. Otherwise, give him more in that game and let him finish it.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 10:24 PM
Or maybe they just disagreed with what he was saying and didn't want to start something? Or maybe he had been yapping at them too much and they were tuning him out? Or maybe he has bad breath and they were protecting their sense of smell?

Don't take any of that too seriously.

I'm not. I don't even necessarily think I'm right. I'm sure they want to win badly, but their actions when they're not playing well makes it seem that way.

CoolHand
11-24-2012, 10:51 PM
there are two reasons why Lance will become our best player IMO, he is the only one who can create his own shot, and he has the killer instinct, he is the only one on the team who has it, he wants the ball, he wants to take the game winning shot, he wants to crush his opponent. I can see Lance being a 19 ppg and 9 apg guy if we start him at point in a few years. He is a better PG than Hill to be honest. I see Paul George as a Joe Johnson type player. His cieling will be as a second option (hopefully to Lance) and can average 16-17 ppg

Lance is the only active player on the team with that killer instinct, but there is another. Unfortunately he is out for several months with a knee injury...

eric1516
11-24-2012, 11:00 PM
It's not really a problem of giving him the keys. It's more of riding into the momentum. I think Frank should give players more mins in a specific game where they are playing so well. If Lance is playing poorly, limit his limits. Otherwise, give him more in that game and let him finish it.

Agreed. My concern though is that if mistakes are made he is kept out for too long. He has to be able to learn from poor play and how to properly adjust.

1984
11-24-2012, 11:07 PM
Reverend Al Sharpton everybody :)

C'mon. You know you liked it.

CJ Jones
11-25-2012, 01:23 AM
^^^^^

If there's a Best Avatar award it goes to this man.

SIR-LANCE-ALOT
11-25-2012, 07:06 PM
nice avatar