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vnzla81
11-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Good game by the Pacers, they looked decent for must of the game, the Spurs are just too good of a team.

Go Pacers!!!

Dr. Hibbert
11-23-2012, 11:28 PM
I know Hibbert/West/bench in 2nd half will get a lot of blame for the loss, and I'm not saying they don't deserve some. But Paul George deserves the vast majority of blame for that Spurs comeback. My goodness, he looked like a powder puff player out there. Lazy passes, sloppy handles, bad shots, lost on defense or just not trying...it was pathetic. I was openly advocating for Vogel to yank him, his effort was SO BAD on both ends of the court during that Spurs comeback.

eric1516
11-23-2012, 11:29 PM
It would have been nice to maintain that 3rd quarter lead but I'm not disappointed we lost. Our bench played better this game with DJ looking much improved. Lance was phenomenal and I'm hoping someone makes a .gif of his ankle breaker on Parker.

Sparhawk
11-23-2012, 11:29 PM
That was so depressing. When Vogel took West and Lance out, the team just changed out there.

And the last 5 minutes were just brutal.

Loss is on Vogel and Hibbert.

I'm sorry, but this is just as worse as getting blown out. They were up double digits and in a matter of just minutes it was gone. Just inexcusable. Spurs are good, but the Pacers choked away a win. *sigh*

PacersHomer
11-23-2012, 11:30 PM
This hurts.

Sparhawk
11-23-2012, 11:31 PM
What is the deal with Vogel and Lance. He yo-yos the kid around like crazy and Lance brings so much energy to the team. You can see they play better when he's out there. I don't understand that one.

Mr_Smith
11-23-2012, 11:31 PM
I knew the game was over when pacers were up 7 and green hits that 3 then steals the ball from paul and scores again.

2minutes twoa
11-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Roy had a mismatch with Diaw and still couldn't hit a hook shot!

Sparhawk
11-23-2012, 11:32 PM
19 offensive rebounds and I swear they missed every 2nd chance effort.

Just so many blown opportunities. This loss really hurts.

Sparhawk
11-23-2012, 11:34 PM
The bench played pretty damn good today too. The starters were the ones that really lost this. DJ was quite good, his best game yet.

Dece
11-23-2012, 11:34 PM
Got a 7'2" guy making max money shooting under 40% on the season. The fact we were even competitive is sorta impressive. 5-18.

Eleazar
11-23-2012, 11:35 PM
Roy had a mismatch with Diaw and still couldn't hit a hook shot!

While no one can defend that hook shot, Roy really needs to add more dimensions to his post game to get better shots.

Magic P
11-23-2012, 11:36 PM
Got a 7'2" guy making max money shooting under 40% on the season. The fact we were even competitive is sorta impressive. 5-18.

He's also allergic to dunking

3rdStrike
11-23-2012, 11:36 PM
I know Hibbert/West/bench in 2nd half will get a lot of blame for the loss, and I'm not saying they don't deserve some. But Paul George deserves the vast majority of blame for that Spurs comeback. My goodness, he looked like a powder puff player out there. Lazy passes, sloppy handles, bad shots, lost on defense or just not trying...it was pathetic. I was openly advocating for Vogel to yank him, his effort was SO BAD on both ends of the court during that Spurs comeback.

Dr.Hibbert, Roy Hibbert is the reason the Pacers lost, again. He got outplayed, again. He shot well under 40%, again. He took terrible hook shots that were often way off the mark (a few airballs even) again. He took way too many shots in general, again. The one thing I'll give him is his passing was pretty solid.

I suppose I could blame Vogel for giving the ball to Hibbert and West, but I'd rather just blame the guy who airballed a 2 foot hook shot.

Kuq_e_Zi91
11-23-2012, 11:37 PM
Roy had a mismatch with Diaw and still couldn't hit a hook shot!

The book is out on Roy by now. Players like Diaw give Roy trouble because they use their strong base to shove Roy off balance underneath and force him farther away from where he wants to catch it to be effective. Roy's height gets negated when you get in his head and make him uncomfortable.

McKeyFan
11-23-2012, 11:38 PM
I know Hibbert/West/bench in 2nd half will get a lot of blame for the loss, and I'm not saying they don't deserve some. But Paul George deserves the vast majority of blame for that Spurs comeback. My goodness, he looked like a powder puff player out there. Lazy passes, sloppy handles, bad shots, lost on defense or just not trying...it was pathetic. I was openly advocating for Vogel to yank him, his effort was SO BAD on both ends of the court during that Spurs comeback.
Vogel's solution was to yank Lance, not Paul, and to make sure Lance had nothing to do with the offense until such time as he was yanked. That was his reward for leading us to a 17 point lead in the third.

McKeyFan
11-23-2012, 11:39 PM
While no one can defend that hook shot, Roy really needs to add more dimensions to his post game to get better shots.

Roy defends it pretty well.

Nuntius
11-23-2012, 11:41 PM
Look, the way we lost was disappointing. But this was still the best game for the season for our team. The offensive flow was gorgeous and frankly the D was solid. Not a lot of defensive lapses there. Conceding 104 points is never good D but then again it was the Spurs. Most teams won't make those shots (especially the ones that Manu did).

Before the game, I didn't expect a win. I expected a loss but I wanted a good performance. Especially by Paul George and Roy Hibbert. Paul had a good game. Not a spectacular one and he had some mistakes that cost us but he was better. He seems to be getting out of his slump slowly. Roy, on the other hand, was not as good. He had a legit double-double and 2 blocks but his 5 / 18 shooting was a big reason we lost. Still, I think that he should earn some more trips to the line. The refs were a bit too lenient on Duncan.

At the end of the day, I'm encouraged by this game. I'd love a win but I'll take the good performance and be happy. The Spurs were one of the few teams we didn't beat last year and I didn't really expect us to do it now while we're struggling without Danny.

I just hope that the way we lost this game is not going to send Roy Hibbert or Paul George in another slump. Roy will probably be blaming himself for this loss (and frankly, he'd be right to do so) and I just hope that this is not going to send him back into his slump.

I'll keep my fingers crossed. All in all, things looked better today.

:gopacers:

Dr. Awesome
11-23-2012, 11:42 PM
Can we openly recognize Vogel isn't a good coach? He was trained by the dumbest coach of all time and its starting to show.

Heisenberg
11-23-2012, 11:42 PM
We really, really missed Danny in the 4th.

vnzla81
11-23-2012, 11:43 PM
I knew the game was over when pacers were up 7 and green hits that 3 then steals the ball from paul and scores again.

I knew this game was over when the game started but that's just me :)

3rdStrike
11-23-2012, 11:44 PM
In other observations, George Hill has really lost his shot and his confidence. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it would help if he focused more on penetrating and using that pretty floater and let Lance/PG/Green hit the outside shots. The only guy he seems to set up outside the paint is West. I'm not sure why he loses his man so easily on defense. His struggles + Augustin's improved play are why Vogel brought Augustin in late.

Also, Augustin's problem on defense is that he fights through the screen every single time. Steve Nash tries to do this too, and it's not always good idea when you're naturally at an athletic disadvantage versus your opponents. Sometimes it works, because he's small, but he needs to anticipate better and go under the screen (and this means teammates have to call out the screen).


David West doesn't even try against slashers. His on the ball defense is okay, but as soon as a guy makes a move, he just stops and stares.

Gerald Green has a much higher bball IQ on offense than he does on defense. He's pretty smart with his play on offense and his vision is surprisingly decent. He doesn't hog the ball but to his detriment; he probably should be a little more aggressive.

Pacerized
11-23-2012, 11:47 PM
It was good to see Augustin have an impact tonight. If he plays like that for 13 more straight so I can say he's played well for half of the season, then I'll let up on saying what a bad pick up he was. For all the flack Tyler gets on here, he's played his butt off consistantly this year and I'm really happy out of what we're getting from our PF position. I'd be happy if we kept Tyler and West together after this year and I don't think either player will break the bank.
Good effort for the most part tonight, just a let down in the 4th. Great teams like the Spurs don't let down like that and we're not on their level without Granger.

imawhat
11-23-2012, 11:47 PM
Roy needs to hit a treadmill, and not just for walking this time.

He had no stamina tonight. I think he was out of breath on the 2nd or 3rd trip downcourt. He was laboring across halfcourt a bit after all of the other players.

ECKrueger
11-23-2012, 11:47 PM
At least there was this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qYSr3XinkKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

1984
11-23-2012, 11:48 PM
I don't get Vogel. Time for a vogel-vention. Don't want him fired, just questioned about offense and rotations.

imawhat
11-23-2012, 11:50 PM
I thought our offense looked pretty good tonight until the 4th quarter. 26/27 assists is really good.

Nuntius
11-23-2012, 11:51 PM
For all the flack Tyler gets on here, he's played his butt off consistantly this year

He got a lot of flack last season but he has yet to get any this season because he's playing his butt off as you said and rebounding greatly.

1984
11-23-2012, 11:52 PM
Fact: Hibbert looked good when Lance was on the floor. Why? Because Lance cuts to the basket creating passing lanes and drawing Hibbert's cover. If I can figure that out, I don't understand why Frank can't.

Dr. Awesome
11-23-2012, 11:52 PM
At least there was this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qYSr3XinkKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Gotta be one of the best Pacer plays I've seen in a long time.

Heisenberg
11-23-2012, 11:53 PM
I've lengthened my leash on Frank with the improved offense, but I really don't get why Young's being asked to be such an offensive contributor. I don't know a ton about Young but he's never been anything near a chucker or anything, so I assume he's just doing what's asked of him. Camp in the corner for the occasional spot up, ok, strong weakside cut, sweet. But handling the ball, pull ups, 3+ 3 point attempts a game? I really don't get it.

imawhat
11-23-2012, 11:53 PM
At least there was this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qYSr3XinkKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

That was a beautiful move, or as Naptown Seth calls it, "junk game".

1984
11-23-2012, 11:54 PM
I'll give Frank this, substitutions aside, the offense was better spaced. I suppose if you think about this through the science of habits you realize that when pressure was applied, the Pacers reverted to the chaotic offense that is natural to them. Bad habits?

2minutes twoa
11-23-2012, 11:54 PM
Roy just needs to play a Mutumbo type game. Defend the rim, rebound and just get points where you can. Do those first two things at a high level!

Derek2k3
11-23-2012, 11:57 PM
It's really hard to look at the positive after such a depressing conclusion. However, it's still early, and this team is looking better and better all the time. So, that's the positive.

The negative...

Roy. For god's sake. 5/18? An absolute choke-job, missing 4 or 5 shots in the last 5 minutes. So, so very bad. Oh, and his decision making...he hustled, got the offensive board, and instead of working it to a guard and running a play (got them a 17 point lead) he rushes back up, missing badly.

Frank. Really, was pretty happy up until he called a play to Roy, despite the fact that Roy was clearly off. He's getting better in my opinion, but needs to continue getting better late in games.

Paul. Absolute choke-job himself after the 3 he hit. Burned by Green (3 points) lost dribble and breakaway (2 points) and leaves his feet fouling Green (2 points). 7 straight, massive choke.

I'm pretty frustrated, this would have/should have been a signature win early. It's so hard to lower expectations from top 3 seed to barely getting in.

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 12:00 AM
Roy just needs to play a Mutumbo type game. Defend the rim, rebound and just get points where you can. Do those first two things at a high level!

Yep Mutombo, Ibaka, etc, the Pacers need to stop giving so many touches, his jumper at this point is better than his back to the basket game.

Mr_Smith
11-24-2012, 12:02 AM
The max contract player couldnt hit a close shot to save his life... Very frustrating

BlueNGold
11-24-2012, 12:03 AM
Fact: Hibbert looked good when Lance was on the floor. Why? Because Lance cuts to the basket creating passing lanes and drawing Hibbert's cover. If I can figure that out, I don't understand why Frank can't.

Lance does open up the court because he's capable of juking people to the point he gets by them and strong enough to carry them on his hip...and gifted enough to dish to the open man when the defense collapses. Given more experience with the other guys and in games against starters, he may become a handful.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Roy did have 7 offensive boards. I honestly can't remember how many times he went back up with it, from a sheer basketball stand point hopefully every time, but it's not like Frank called 18 sets for Roy.

3rdStrike
11-24-2012, 12:06 AM
I've lengthened my leash on Frank with the improved offense, but I really don't get why Young's being asked to be such an offensive contributor. I don't know a ton about Young but he's never been anything near a chucker or anything, so I assume he's just doing what's asked of him. Camp in the corner for the occasional spot up, ok, strong weakside cut, sweet. But handling the ball, pull ups, 3+ 3 point attempts a game? I really don't get it.

I agree entirely. I think Frank got his head out of his you know what just in time, and the Pacers are actually looking like an NBA team. The Sam Young stuff boggles my mind. As you said it's not only his shooting but bringing the ball up the court, being a focal point of plays, it makes no sense at all.

Mr_Smith
11-24-2012, 12:10 AM
Is 20 ppg and 10 rpg too much to ask from the max contract player? I guess so

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 12:11 AM
Is 20 ppg and 10 rpg too much to ask from the max contract player? I guess s

Roy is never going to be a 20/10 guy.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-24-2012, 12:11 AM
:(

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 12:13 AM
That was one of our better games, too bad had to choke in the end. Hibbert really is killing us right now. How many games has he earned that contract this year.... 2 or 3 maybe? We need a defensive specialist next to Roy so we can camp him under the basket because that's about all he's good for defensively right now. Hill's struggled this year too, but who wouldn't look bad in the pick and roll when your help is Hibbert and D. West?

I agree with whoever mentioned Paul's play in 4th. It was bad.

Lance got screwed by the refs tonight. The tech was an obvious flop Ginobili will be hearing from the league about, and the penalty foul in the 4th was called after Neal swiped at Lance, baiting the official again. It should have been offensive if anything. Definitely shouldn't have been a holding foul. Lance has bad fouls a lot of times, but those two tonight were total BS.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:17 AM
That was one of our better games, too bad had to choke in the end. Hibbert really is killing us right now. How many games has he earned that contract this year.... 2 or 3 maybe? We need a defensive specialist next to Roy so we can camp him under the basket because that's about all he's good for defensively right now. Hill's struggled this year too, but who wouldn't look bad in the pick and roll when your help is Hibbert and D. West?

I agree with whoever mentioned Paul's play in 4th. It was bad.

Lance got screwed by the refs tonight. The tech was an obvious flop Ginobili will be hearing from the league about, and the penalty foul in the 4th was called after Neal swiped at Lance, baiting the official again. It should have been offensive if anything. Definitely shouldn't have been a holding foul. Lance has bad fouls I'll admit, but those two tonight were total BS.

Honestly, Roy's a defensive specialist. Roy's become a pretty outstanding rim protector. I give vnzla plenty of crap but he's right, I don't necessarily think we're force feeding Roy as much as people think and I do like him in the high post running sets off him at times, but it's unquestionable at this point that unless he's got a pretty major mismatch that the stand around and let Roy go to work on the block stuff needs to stop. He's got a game where he's finally hitting, awesome, give it to him, but those're few and far between so cut off him, work weakside stuff, something, I don't know, I'm not that smart. But Roy putting up more than 10 or so shots a game's a detriment right now.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 12:19 AM
Roy has a specialty on D, but he's in no way a defensive specialist IMO. He's good at blocking shots, but he's awful in the PnR. So is David.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:23 AM
When I say "defensive specialist" I basically mean he's a much better defensive player than offensive. He's not about to be Noah or Varejao and go shut down a penetrating guard or something.

Eleazar
11-24-2012, 12:23 AM
Is 20 ppg and 10 rpg too much to ask from the max contract player? I guess so

I hate this whole max thing like Roy is making the same as Kobe or someone, when in reality he makes more or less the same as Granger this year and next. A max contract is a relative term. Roy's max is less than a 20/10 guy should make. While he still isn't living up to his contract, he isn't and shouldn't be expected to be a 20/10 guy.

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 12:28 AM
I hate this whole max thing like Roy is making the same as Kobe or someone, when in reality he makes more or less the same as Granger this year and next. A max contract is a relative term. Roy's max is less than a 20/10 guy should make. While he still isn't living up to his contract, he isn't and shouldn't be expected to be a 20/10 guy.

I agree with your point that not all max contracts are created equal, but I don't think it's unreasonable to hope for your 7'2 guy making on average ~15 mil the next 4 to have 20/10 say, I don't know, (pulls number out of ***) maybe like 25% of the time. Roy's working on 8% or so this year.

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 12:29 AM
Honestly, Roy's a defensive specialist. Roy's become a pretty outstanding rim protector. I give vnzla plenty of crap but he's right, I don't necessarily think we're force feeding Roy as much as people think and I do like him in the high post running sets off him at times, but it's unquestionable at this point that unless he's got a pretty major mismatch that the stand around and let Roy go to work on the block stuff needs to stop. He's got a game where he's finally hitting, awesome, give it to him, but those're few and far between so cut off him, work weakside stuff, something, I don't know, I'm not that smart. But Roy putting up more than 10 or so shots a game's a detriment right now.

Pacers should use him the same way the Spurs use the 38 years old Duncan, Pop doesn't post Duncan as much anymore must of his points come from outside, Pacers should do the same.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 12:39 AM
When I say "defensive specialist" I basically mean he's a much better defensive player than offensive. He's not about to be Noah or Varejao and go shut down a penetrating guard or something.

He's a good defensively, but against a good pick and roll team he gets exposed. I agree with both you guys, we need to tell him to focus on the little things. That's why I said we need a defensive specialist to put on the other teams best pick and roll player so we can allow Hibbert to camp in the paint, protect the rim, and rebound. Honestly the way it's going now I'd rather find that player to put next to D. West, but that's not happening anytime soon. Hibbert's contract is dead weight right now.

greyhound80
11-24-2012, 01:08 AM
Just home from the game.
Pacers played their best basketball of the young season BY FAR for the first 3+ qtrs.
Watching Roy work 1 on 1 and then hoist a 10' hook shot makes me ill. He misses, claps his hands and runs to the other end. 5 for 18! My God at one point he missed a point blank put back and two 3 footers. Made several really good passes though.
The bench played the best they have ever played by a mile. Still don't know why we have Sam Young. Don't see what he adds at all.
How many dumb fouls, technicals did we have? Push offs, fouls away from the ball. Two stupid technical fouls.
It was sad to watch a 17 pt lead evaporate in just a few minutes. Last four minutes you could just tell it wasn't going to work out. They were finding open shooters. We had no one who really wanted to score. Plus, West missed two easy ones and then bricked two FT's. Lots of good things but a bad loss preceding a west coast trip.

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 01:18 AM
By the way does anybody think Blair is better than Tyler at this point? Tyler is also the better defender.

Sandman21
11-24-2012, 01:19 AM
Anyone know when we going to get some COMPETENT refs?

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 01:22 AM
By the way does anybody think Blair is better than Tyler at this point? Tyler is also the better defender.

There's 4 players drafted BEFORE Tyler in 09 I'd take him over in a vacuum.

Eleazar
11-24-2012, 01:23 AM
Anyone know when we going to get some COMPETENT refs?

When Stern retires.

Hicks
11-24-2012, 01:26 AM
Is 20 ppg and 10 rpg too much to ask from the max contract player? I guess so

It would depend entirely on who the player is and what their game is.

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 01:27 AM
There's 4 players drafted BEFORE Tyler in 09 I'd take him over in a vacuum.

Thabeet, Flynn, Hill and Twill?

Heisenberg
11-24-2012, 01:28 AM
Thabeet, Flynn, Hill and Twill?

Obviously, and not even in a vacuum, that was overstating it. Maybe Gerald Henderson but that's completely depending on teammates.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 01:33 AM
Boyle said before the game that one of the refs was a trainee :unimpress. I think it might have been the guy that gave Lance the tech.

mitchbr
11-24-2012, 01:44 AM
One thing to positively take away from this is that the second unit actually looked like the group we traded and paid for. I was watching the re-run on FSN when I got home and DJ said it was the first time he felt really comfortable with that group. Hopefully a sign of things to come.
Obviously the missed shots late really hurt but they did score 97 points. Of course when the other team scores more than 97 points its not good but coming into tonight they were averaging 91 points allowed and had only two games where they allowed over 100 (first game vs SA and NO on Wednesday). I remember when Butler made their first run to the Final Four the line was 60 points, the only team they let score 60+ was Duke, who scored 61 and won the title. 90 seems to be that line for the Pacers against any team. Hold them to 90 or less and we should get a win.

Ace E.Anderson
11-24-2012, 01:55 AM
It's really hard to look at the positive after such a depressing conclusion. However, it's still early, and this team is looking better and better all the time. So, that's the positive.

The negative...

Roy. For god's sake. 5/18? An absolute choke-job, missing 4 or 5 shots in the last 5 minutes. So, so very bad. Oh, and his decision making...he hustled, got the offensive board, and instead of working it to a guard and running a play (got them a 17 point lead) he rushes back up, missing badly.

Frank. Really, was pretty happy up until he called a play to Roy, despite the fact that Roy was clearly off. He's getting better in my opinion, but needs to continue getting better late in games.

Paul. Absolute choke-job himself after the 3 he hit. Burned by Green (3 points) lost dribble and breakaway (2 points) and leaves his feet fouling Green (2 points). 7 straight, massive choke.

I'm pretty frustrated, this would have/should have been a signature win early. It's so hard to lower expectations from top 3 seed to barely getting in.

You have to change expectations when your best player is out injured.

Sandman21
11-24-2012, 02:00 AM
Boyle said before the game that one of the refs was a trainee :unimpress. I think it might have been the guy that gave Lance the tech.

Are you ******** me? Why is the NBA putting a trainee ref on a regular season game when they run a freaking D-LEAGUE?

Willbo
11-24-2012, 02:06 AM
Young coming in for Lance when up 17 in the 3rd reeked of putting the cue in the rack. Vogel got conservative and wanted to consolidate. An appalling miscalculation. The short leash and restricted minutes for Lance are eerily similar to the Michael Curry days. His play has been sound, he has not been forcing it, has applied himself defensively, and has the upside in his game to help this team THIS YEAR. He also posses an almost unique skill-set for this team as someone who can create for both himself and team mates off the dribble. Should he be installed as the go-to man on offense, no. But surely he has played well enough consistently enough to deserve 30+ mins and some license to create when the offense stagnates. Every time Sam Young spots up or receives a dribble hand-off and is asked to create I wonder what part of my basketball education I missed not to appreciate the ensuing clang off the rim, travel, or pass out of bounds. I actually appreciate what Young brings on the defensive end but contend that Lance's net impact (offense+defense) is greater and when considered in the context of the broader team dynamic; a team holding its own defensively whilst laboring offensively - his strengths are faaaaar preferable to young's at this time.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 02:56 AM
Are you ******** me? Why is the NBA putting a trainee ref on a regular season game when they run a freaking D-LEAGUE?

If I heard it right they said he worked college (or maybe it was D-League) games, but he works an occasional NBA game to see if has what it takes to become a full time NBA ref.

Oh, I was wrong about him giving Lance the tech. It was the younger looking guy (#30) that's been in the league for a while, John Goble. He called the holding call on Lance in the 4th too which after watching the replay could have easily been called an offensive foul. The way Neal acted he had to call something, but he got that one wrong too. I guess even experienced refs have bad games. The tech wasn't all his fault, though. Ginobili was such a ***** with that flop. He probably got away with 5 travels tonight too.

CableKC
11-24-2012, 03:57 AM
Obviously, and not even in a vacuum, that was overstating it. Maybe Gerald Henderson but that's completely depending on teammates.
There are about 6 or 7 other Players taken AFTER Hansbrough that I'd take or even consider :(

Goyle
11-24-2012, 04:29 AM
Sam Young has been okay lately, but Vogel's been pulling Lance WAY too often for him. Frank really loves him some hustle players with little basketball skills.

Johanvil
11-24-2012, 07:39 AM
Offense much improved and they showed some beautiful flow at times.The 4th quarter was a disaster though and Hibbert once again disappointed there.Hate to say "told you so" but i did.

greyhound80
11-24-2012, 08:28 AM
Ginobili was such a ***** with that flop. He probably got away with 5 travels tonight too.

Ginobli and Parker travel more than any two players on earth. One time Ginobli had already taken 2+ steps so Mahinmi jumped to block his shot, Ginobli took one more step and fell under Ian and drew a foul. It was only a foul BECAUSE GINOBLI TRAVELED!!

King Tuts Tomb
11-24-2012, 09:12 AM
Hate watching Sam Young take those threes (there's a reason he's always wide open) but it's nice knowing he's not gonna miss a defensive rotation or get lost on defense with the frequency of Lance or Green. It's up to Vogel to balance out how much to play the right guys in the right situations to maximize their abilities and avoid allowing the other team to exploit their weaknesses.

OlBlu
11-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Offense much improved and they showed some beautiful flow at times.The 4th quarter was a disaster though and Hibbert once again disappointed there.Hate to say "told you so" but i did.

Why did Hibbert disappoint? He had a double-double with a couple of blocked shots against one of the premier big men in the game. Did you think Hibbert was going to transform into a 20 ppg 15 rebounds per game type of player just because he signed a big contract? :cool:

McKeyFan
11-24-2012, 09:47 AM
I agree entirely. I think Frank got his head out of his you know what just in time, and the Pacers are actually looking like an NBA team. The Sam Young stuff boggles my mind. As you said it's not only his shooting but bringing the ball up the court, being a focal point of plays, it makes no sense at all.

Sam Young is the new Posey.

Kid Minneapolis
11-24-2012, 09:48 AM
By the way does anybody think Blair is better than Tyler at this point? Tyler is also the better defender.

Didn't you used to rail that we took Tyler over Blair? Or was that someone else?"

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Kid Minneapolis
11-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Not much mention of our D. Our offense lives off our defense. We defended well all game, and our offense followed suit. We didn't defend in the 4th and our offense followed suit.

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McKeyFan
11-24-2012, 10:03 AM
Hate watching Sam Young take those threes (there's a reason he's always wide open) but it's nice knowing he's not gonna miss a defensive rotation or get lost on defense with the frequency of Lance or Green. It's up to Vogel to balance out how much to play the right guys in the right situations to maximize their abilities and avoid allowing the other team to exploit their weaknesses.
If Frank were consistent about his concern for players missing defensive assignments, he would be pulling Paul before he pulls Lance.

Cousy47
11-24-2012, 10:05 AM
One of best one-on-one moves in years! And he didn't CELEBRATE afterwards, just got up ready to play. Our little Lance is muturing right before our eyes. If he plays like this all season, we are really going to miss him next season when he signs a big contract somewhere else.

Cubs231721
11-24-2012, 10:10 AM
Why did Hibbert disappoint? He had a double-double with a couple of blocked shots against one of the premier big men in the game. Did you think Hibbert was going to transform into a 20 ppg 15 rebounds per game type of player just because he signed a big contract? :cool:

Hibbert's overall line is fine. It's the way he got there that is the problem. Last season he averaged 12.8 points on 10.3 field goal attempts per game. Last night he got 10 points on 18 field goal attempts. That's a huge difference in efficiency.

I liked to see that they made Augustin more of a ball dominant guard when he was in. Everybody else currently on that unit plays better off the ball (that will change if Granger returns and pushes Lance to that unit), so hopefully that continues. Obviously most teams won't allow the wide open spaces that the Spurs do at times, but it will still be a more effective offense that way.

The first unit needs Hibbert on offense right now. George is still someone who is more effective getting his points within the flow of the offense rather than having plays called for him. Hill is the constant backup/emergency option if a play breaks down. They don't trust Lance yet to call tons of plays for him, so that leaves Hibbert and West. When Granger comes back they can have him and West be the first options and let Hibbert roam more, but right now I think they have to keep going down to Hibbert and hope it gets better. But it has gotten to the point where I hope the other team sends a double team like they did Wednesday and the Pacers can swing it out for a 3 point shot rather than defending 1 on 1 like the Spurs did.

Cubs231721
11-24-2012, 10:19 AM
One of best one-on-one moves in years! And he didn't CELEBRATE afterwards, just got up ready to play. Our little Lance is muturing right before our eyes. If he plays like this all season, we are really going to miss him next season when he signs a big contract somewhere else.

The Pacers have him next year for cheap as well (it's unguaranteed right now, but of course the Pacers are going to keep him at this point). Lance and Granger will both be UFA's after next year and George will be restricted at the same time, so it will be fascinating to see what direction the Pacers are going to go with their wings.

Justin Tyme
11-24-2012, 12:42 PM
Thabeet, Flynn, Hill and Twill?


I notice Thabeet has had some productive games this year. I know, anything would be an improvement.

Trader Joe
11-24-2012, 12:43 PM
We lost the game because of Roy Hibbert and George Hill.

Every single time we ran an iso for Roy was just an utter waste of time. 5-18? Are you serious? Even Jermaine O'Neal on bum knees and 20 lbs. overweight in his last two years with the Pacers thinks that is a bad shooting night.

Justin Tyme
11-24-2012, 12:51 PM
Thabeet, Flynn, Hill and Twill?


Lets not forget Jordan Hill was Walsh's pick for the Knicks. I absolutely don't want Walsh choosing this years pick. I'd rather Pritchard didn't either. I just don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about their abilities to pick the right player. If this team plays themselves out of the lottery, I feel this is going to be a critical draft for the Pacers. JMOAA

Sollozzo
11-24-2012, 12:52 PM
You have to admire what Tim Duncan is doing at age 36. He's averaging 18.5 pts 10.9 boards with a 51.7 FG%. One of the best ever.

Justin Tyme
11-24-2012, 12:59 PM
There are about 6 or 7 other Players taken AFTER Hansbrough that I'd take or even consider :(


That's in the 1st round and not even in the 2nd round.

OlBlu
11-24-2012, 01:08 PM
I notice Thabeet has had some productive games this year. I know, anything would be an improvement.

Fans in Indiana would have run Thabeet right out of team. They have no patience to wait for a player to develop.....:cool:

Justin Tyme
11-24-2012, 03:04 PM
We lost the game because of Roy Hibbert and George Hill.

Every single time we ran an iso for Roy was just an utter waste of time. 5-18? Are you serious? Even Jermaine O'Neal on bum knees and 20 lbs. overweight in his last two years with the Pacers thinks that is a bad shooting night.


Have you noticed JO's last 2 games stats this week??

owl
11-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Lets not forget Jordan Hill was Walsh's pick for the Knicks. I absolutely don't want Walsh choosing this years pick. I'd rather Pritchard didn't either. I just don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about their abilities to pick the right player. If this team plays themselves out of the lottery, I feel this is going to be a critical draft for the Pacers. JMOAA


Maybe they can hire Bird as draft consultant.

spazzxb
11-24-2012, 05:38 PM
Sam Young is the new Posey.

He's to young and not paid enough to be Posey.

vnzla81
11-24-2012, 05:49 PM
Maybe they can hire Bird as draft consultant.

He was the consultant last draft no thank you.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Sam Young has been okay lately, but Vogel's been pulling Lance WAY too often for him. Frank really loves him some hustle players with little basketball skills.

I'd rather see a nine man rotation, personally, so guys can get into a better rhythm. Even though at this point I think Sam helps us more, I'd bench him and spread his minutes around to the other guys and hope playing a consistent 20+ minutes for a couple weeks helps Green and DJ get more comfortable on the court. We really need those guys to be the players we thought they were when we signed them. They've shown flashes of it, but there's been no consistency.

Johanvil
11-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Why did Hibbert disappoint? He had a double-double with a couple of blocked shots against one of the premier big men in the game. Did you think Hibbert was going to transform into a 20 ppg 15 rebounds per game type of player just because he signed a big contract? :cool:

Because he shot terribly once again and missed some key shots(which one of them was also a terrible decision making) at the end of the game.As for the contract extension,you typically expect from your max contract to return with such figures but no i didn't expect that in Hibbert's case.FO has to take the blame.Still it's just mad and infuriating watching a highly paid player being so poor on offense.

CJ Jones
11-24-2012, 06:29 PM
... and he was pitiful defensively. What were you watching Ol Blu?

I'm starting to think you don't even watch the games.

Sandman21
11-24-2012, 06:44 PM
He's to young and not paid enough to be Posey.

And he actually plays defense. Not to mention Only 50% or so of Sam's FGA are coming from beyond the arc (in comparision, Posey attempted literally something like 90% of his FGA behind the 3 point line).......

owl
11-26-2012, 09:48 AM
He was the consultant last draft no thank you.


He did fairly well with the drafts before that. Way to early to tell about last years draft.

McKeyFan
11-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Jeff Foster looked like a bust the first couple of years.

Nuntius
11-26-2012, 12:47 PM
The hate that Miles get is completely irrational.

Phree Refill
11-26-2012, 01:16 PM
Don't believe I've seen it mentioned but every player on the bench had a positive +/- while every starter had a -. Has to be the first time that's happened this year.

Sparhawk
11-26-2012, 04:35 PM
The hate that Miles get is completely irrational.

I don't think so. There were better prospects on the board and the Pacers decided to get a clone of Foster. Foster was a fine player, but in no way should you go into a draft looking for a guy that was like a previous player. If so, why shoot so low with a Foster clone. Last year there was a great rebounder that was compared to Dennis Rodman in Kenneth Faried. Why not make a trade for that guy. Could have easily traded this year's pick for a pick last year and gotten a much better player. And I really wanted Faried or Brooks from last year's draft.

It's just ridiculous the reason they drafted this guy.

Moultrie
PJIII
Teague
Crowder
Ezeli
Taylor
Quincy Miller

All better prospects than Plumlee. Not saying Plumlee can't become a decent player, or the other guys will certainly pan out. The idea of drafting a 25 yr old rookie that isn't even going to be ready to play for another year to two years makes me vomit in my mouth a little. Are you *****ing kidding me?

If you want to sit a guy, draft a guy like PJIII and let him sit for a few years. If anything, trade the pick and move down a few slots to take him. No one was going to take him that high, not for a career backup in college, the Pacers got scared.

Naptown_Seth
11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
And he actually plays defense. Not to mention Only 50% or so of Sam's FGA are coming from beyond the arc (in comparision, Posey attempted literally something like 90% of his FGA behind the 3 point line).......
88% of his shots came from 3 that year. This seems almost impossible.

More fun facts - his high mark was 90% of his shots (18 of 20) after 5 games, he then dropped 4 non 3PAs vs Houston which was the most non-3PAs he took all season. This moved him back down to only 81%. He took more than 1 2PA in only 4 games (4, 3, 2, 2) out of 49 played. He had 7 games where he took at least 7 3PAs. He took at least 4 3PA in 35 games which is 71% of his outings.

And he had only 1 game in which he shot more than 2 FTAs (3) and only 6 where he shot more than 1 FTA.

The good news - he was killing them with a brilliant 31% make rate.

Ace E.Anderson
11-26-2012, 08:06 PM
I don't think so. There were better prospects on the board and the Pacers decided to get a clone of Foster. Foster was a fine player, but in no way should you go into a draft looking for a guy that was like a previous player. If so, why shoot so low with a Foster clone. Last year there was a great rebounder that was compared to Dennis Rodman in Kenneth Faried. Why not make a trade for that guy. Could have easily traded this year's pick for a pick last year and gotten a much better player. And I really wanted Faried or Brooks from last year's draft.

It's just ridiculous the reason they drafted this guy.

Moultrie
PJIII
Teague
Crowder
Ezeli
Taylor
Quincy Miller

All better prospects than Plumlee. Not saying Plumlee can't become a decent player, or the other guys will certainly pan out. The idea of drafting a 25 yr old rookie that isn't even going to be ready to play for another year to two years makes me vomit in my mouth a little. Are you *****ing kidding me?

If you want to sit a guy, draft a guy like PJIII and let him sit for a few years. If anything, trade the pick and move down a few slots to take him. No one was going to take him that high, not for a career backup in college, the Pacers got scared.

What makes it so bad was that there didn't seem to be a plan. We drafted Plumlee, then went nd trades DC for Mahinmi. I understand we may not have wanted a rookie in the rotation, but when there're players available that have the potential to be future starters, then why not allow a rookie to play a minimum role on a veteran playoff team.

Also, the late first round draft pick is the BEST time to swing for the fences. If we miss, why not miss big? Instead we got a guy who will AT BEST be a quality 3rd big. Just not smart

xIndyFan
11-26-2012, 08:42 PM
the plan was to draft a guy that would be a 10 year rotation guy with an elite skill. not bad for a late pick. Now we'll wait and see if the plan works. To say that there didn't seem to be a plan is not paying attention. Disagree with the plan if you want. But there was a plan.

Speculating. The Pacers want to have Plumlee take the backup 4 next season. Assuming that Tyler will either not play well enough to bring back or play too well to afford bringing back. The games at Ft Wayne would indicate that Plumlee has the potential to score. Since the player he kept getting compared to is Jeff Foster, I speculate the Pacers see him as Jeff Foster with a jump shot and a guy that can score well enough to require guarding. If he does turn out to be Jeff Foster with a jump shot, it will be a very successful pick. Time will tell.


What makes it so bad was that there didn't seem to be a plan. We drafted Plumlee, then went nd trades DC for Mahinmi. I understand we may not have wanted a rookie in the rotation, but when there're players available that have the potential to be future starters, then why not allow a rookie to play a minimum role on a veteran playoff team.

Also, the late first round draft pick is the BEST time to swing for the fences. If we miss, why not miss big? Instead we got a guy who will AT BEST be a quality 3rd big. Just not smart

McKeyFan
11-26-2012, 09:47 PM
I would love to see Plumlee to turn out something like Jeff Foster.

What some people don't realize is that Foster was a lot more than just rebounding. He was tough. He was very bright. He always knew where to be on the floor. He was spirited with his teammates, yelling at them, showing leadership, when necessary. He had good hands and was nifty at getting loose balls.

Plumlee might be a good leaper who has had a bit of success at getting offensive boards. But becoming Foster-esque will require many other skills.

Ace E.Anderson
11-26-2012, 09:53 PM
the plan was to draft a guy that would be a 10 year rotation guy with an elite skill. not bad for a late pick. Now we'll wait and see if the plan works. To say that there didn't seem to be a plan is not paying attention. Disagree with the plan if you want. But there was a plan.

Speculating. The Pacers want to have Plumlee take the backup 4 next season. Assuming that Tyler will either not play well enough to bring back or play too well to afford bringing back. The games at Ft Wayne would indicate that Plumlee has the potential to score. Since the player he kept getting compared to is Jeff Foster, I speculate the Pacers see him as Jeff Foster with a jump shot and a guy that can score well enough to require guarding. If he does turn out to be Jeff Foster with a jump shot, it will be a very successful pick. Time will tell.

This would be very true if Plumlee had an elite skill-set. His rebounding numbers in college were average. His athleticism on the other hand is elite, so I'll give you that.

And if THAT was the plan, to add a guy that was mediocre in AT BEST in college, as opposed to swinging for a player that could be a potential starter down the line--then that's almost worse than not having a plan at all. IMO. That to me shows incompetence. But hey, maybe Plumlee will turnout to be better than I thought. Time will tell

Kid Minneapolis
11-27-2012, 12:48 PM
Gotta be one of the best Pacer plays I've seen in a long time.

Lance, I hereby dub thee --- "The French Revolution".

Get it? Because he made a French guy turn in a circle?