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boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 03:16 PM
Dismal, just dismal.

Pace Maker
11-18-2012, 03:19 PM
3 year plan

DGPR
11-18-2012, 03:21 PM
Portland has got to be laughing their asses off right now.

granger4mvp
11-18-2012, 03:22 PM
3 year plan

Yep to go back to the lottery

Brad8888
11-18-2012, 03:23 PM
High dollar, no swagger.

D-BONE
11-18-2012, 03:24 PM
This team is a joke. It's a bunch of guys out there playing without any cohesion, no concept of what they need to accomplish as a team, and no group intensity.

Personally, I thought we would regress some this year even with Granger, win probably mid to high 40s, obviously still be in the playoffs.

The way our "depth" is paying off for us with DG out, I now think the regression would be more than I anticipated even with Granger. Our offseason additions have added up to a big fat O.

graphic-er
11-18-2012, 03:24 PM
I've always wondered what if, at one point several years ago. Mike Woodson was available... but we extend JOB for another year.

boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 03:25 PM
We have got to be the best team in NBA at making horrible losses look reasonable.

Johanvil
11-18-2012, 03:26 PM
But but we installed a new offense in 24 hours...

AesopRockOn
11-18-2012, 03:27 PM
Tyler's perimeter defense was outstanding.

boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 03:27 PM
Man I wish it was last May.

LG33
11-18-2012, 03:28 PM
The only time the team plays with any intensity is when Hansbrough's in the game. I was concerned that he wouldn't improve in the offseason, but he has made some adjustments and is actually a net positive on the floor whether he's making shots or not.

Heisenberg
11-18-2012, 03:28 PM
think Ryan Grigson can do double duty?

dal9
11-18-2012, 03:28 PM
no problem. we'll just install another new offense real fast.

bellisimo
11-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Its starting to feel like I've wasted $150 on the League Pass - the team is not giving an ounce of joy at all...abysmal

MiaDragon
11-18-2012, 03:29 PM
Tyler's perimeter defense was outstanding.

He is one of the only bright spots so far this year.

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 03:29 PM
I'm blaming Roy Hibbert's poor performance this afternoon on Jim O'Brien.

D-BONE
11-18-2012, 03:29 PM
I know the idea has been forwarded already on the forum, but it's really getting hard to ignore the Vogel honeymoon period disintegration theory now.

BornReady
11-18-2012, 03:30 PM
what a sorry team

MiaDragon
11-18-2012, 03:30 PM
I know the idea has been forwarded already on the forum, but it's really getting hard to ignore the Vogel honeymoon period disintegration theory now.

Been beating that drum for awhile.

righteouscool
11-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Its starting to feel like I've wasted $150 on the League Pass - the team is not giving an ounce of joy at all...abysmal

I feel the same exact way. I'm not enjoying watching this team at all.

LG33
11-18-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm blaming Roy Hibbert's poor performance this afternoon on Jim O'Brien.

Did you see how much better they played against Jim O'Brien? Too bad the guy can't assistant coach every team.

Sookie
11-18-2012, 03:31 PM
What happened to the players on this team? Danny's a huge loss, but is it really this much. Perhaps it's as simple as missing his shot making, and the fact that the defense keys on him. (Instead of Roy..who now can't score and no one draws defenders off of him.)

Our bench was significantly better last year. Like..it's not even close.

I know gut reaction is to blame the coach. But what exactly is Frank supposed to do with this mess. We lost this game because we can't shoot, can't rebound, and can't pass. That's not on Frank. That's stuff they should know how to do in middle school. Well that and our Center is moping again.

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 03:31 PM
I've always wondered what if, at one point several years ago. Mike Woodson was available... but we extend JOB for another year.

I think you make an excellent point here. By missing out on Mike Woodson and Mike Brown and Byron Scott and extending Jim O'Brien for that extra year instead, we pretty much mortgaged the next decade of Pacers basketball.

Sookie
11-18-2012, 03:32 PM
Did you see how much better they played against Jim O'Brien? Too bad the guy can't assistant coach every team.

Or too bad Troy Murphy can't be on every team the Pacers play.

Heisenberg
11-18-2012, 03:32 PM
at least there won't be any apprehension about them bringing Danny back too early

rock747
11-18-2012, 03:34 PM
What happened to the players on this team? Danny's a huge loss, but is it really this much. Perhaps it's as simple as missing his shot making, and the fact that the defense keys on him. (Instead of Roy..who now can't score and no one draws defenders off of him.)

Our bench was significantly better last year. Like..it's not even close.

I think it's this. The starters weren't THIS bad to start the season, but the bench has always been awful. I think it has thrown the rhythm of the entire team off. I fully think the front office is to blame. They went cheap and its killed us.

AesopRockOn
11-18-2012, 03:36 PM
The 2012-2013 Indiana Pacers: We probably won't beat your team, but we'll make the game highly aesthetically displeasing.

odeez
11-18-2012, 03:36 PM
UGH! WE can't score enough points! How does this get better?

xtacy
11-18-2012, 03:37 PM
i could only stand the first half. **** this team and especially **** roy. we spent all that money on this useless piece of ****. this guy doesn't even deserve a jersey right now. and please don't bother to tell me not to overreact and calm down because i won't. i'm pissed beyond belief. i spent all that money on league pass to watch these guys play and this is how they play. i don't think they even ****ing care right now.

Brad8888
11-18-2012, 03:37 PM
I have been a huge Vogel fan, but with supposedly such a high quality coaching staff "team", how can the Pacers literally have no direction offensively? Maybe Bird was actually coaching the team through Vogel last year and the end of the transition year?????

Regardless, how can they sit idly by and just let this continue?

When the quote from Burke just before the second half of today's game indicated that things were basically fine and that more shots like they got in the first half and that they just needed to keep taking more jumpers until they start going in, I wanted to just stop watching. I will know better next time.

The Pacers truly need to watch some college basketball, and mimic that. Play fundamental, physical basketball with passing and purposeful player movement on offense. Add to that some player communication.

My enthusiasm is now on life support. Last year's team had expectations of good play and hustle and physicality, and tremendous chemistry that was obvious on the court. Little to none of that exists this year. Granger being missing could have some impact on that, but not nearly to this extent.

rock747
11-18-2012, 03:38 PM
UGH! WE can't score enough points! How does this get better?

Get better players. A lineup of Augustin, Green, Sam Young, Hansbrough, Mahimni is going to struggle against anyone.

Dr. Hibbert
11-18-2012, 03:39 PM
I don't have to see any more from Hibbert this year. He's a detriment, a powderpuff and a contract albatross. So the only question is, what the heck can the Pacers do about it from here?

ColeTheMole
11-18-2012, 03:40 PM
To be fair, Tyson Chandler always eats Roy Hibbert's lunch. Even pre-mega rich Roy.

rock747
11-18-2012, 03:40 PM
I don't have to see any more from Hibbert this year. He's a detriment, a powderpuff and a contract albatross. So the only question is, what the heck can the Pacers do about it from here?

Hope he gets better.

OlBlu
11-18-2012, 03:41 PM
i could only stand the first half. **** this team and especially **** roy. we spent all that money on this useless piece of ****. this guy doesn't even deserve a jersey right now. and please don't bother to tell me not to overreact and calm down because i won't. i'm pissed beyond belief. i spent all that money on league pass to watch these guys play and this is how they play. i don't think they even ****ing care right now.

Gloom and doom in Pacers land? It is still to early for that. I don't think the Pacers would have been in this game even if they had a healthy Granger.....:cool: I took lots of crap in the off season for saying that I thought both NY teams had passed Indy. I still think that is true and it would be true even with Granger.....:cool:

Dr. Hibbert
11-18-2012, 03:42 PM
Hope he gets better.

Scary, sad...but true.

rock747
11-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Gloom and doom in Pacers land? It is still to early for that. I don't think the Pacers would have been in this game even if they had a healthy Granger.....:cool: I took lots of crap in the off season for saying that I thought both NY teams had passed Indy. I still think that is true and it would be true even with Granger.....:cool:

Yep, even if we had Granger, we still dynamically made the team worse with the off season moves.

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 03:43 PM
I don't have to see any more from Hibbert this year. He's a detriment, a powderpuff and a contract albatross. So the only question is, what the heck can the Pacers do about it from here?

Don't blame Roy Hibbert for how he plays. You're being too hard on him and frankly so is Coach Vogel. I mean, how is it supposed to help Hibbert's confidence that the coach will only play him 25 minutes? He should get the chance to play more minutes as he continues to struggle, because what matters most is his development. O'Brien was guilty of the same thing, only playing him 24 minutes a game in his second season when he should have been playing 34 regardless of his performance and regardless of matchups. He's a great guy and has an awesome personality and works hard. Geez, give the guy a break.

xtacy
11-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Gloom and doom in Pacers land? It is still to early for that. I don't think the Pacers would have been in this game even if they had a healthy Granger.....:cool: I took lots of crap in the off season for saying that I thought both NY teams had passed Indy. I still think that is true and it would be true even with Granger.....:cool:

yeah like i said earlier our problems are way bigger than granger's injury right now.

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Gloom and doom in Pacers land? It is still to early for that. I don't think the Pacers would have been in this game even if they had a healthy Granger.....:cool: I took lots of crap in the off season for saying that I thought both NY teams had passed Indy. I still think that is true and it would be true even with Granger.....:cool:

Were people joking around when they were disagreeing with you on this point? Please tell me they were lol.

Dr. Hibbert
11-18-2012, 03:47 PM
Don't blame Roy Hibbert for how he plays. You're being too hard on him and frankly so is Coach Vogel. I mean, how is it supposed to help Hibbert's confidence that the coach will only play him 25 minutes? He should get the chance to play more minutes as he continues to struggle, because what matters most is his development. O'Brien was guilty of the same thing, only playing him 24 minutes a game in his second season when he should have been playing 34 regardless of his performance and regardless of matchups. He's a great guy and has an awesome personality and works hard. Geez, give the guy a break.

That's a load of crap. He's doing nothing to justify minutes out on the court. He's a 7'2" big who can't muscle or rebound. You can't reward mental marshmallows and laziness.

PacersHomer
11-18-2012, 03:48 PM
Well Portland got very lucky.

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 03:54 PM
I know this game was awful, but I'm still not as worried as most of you. Our offense is in a slump and off the charts bad. We won't continue to shoot under 40% and turn the ball over at this rate because we'd be setting NBA records doing so. The worst shooting team in the NBA never finishes a season with these poor of offensive stats. It's actually encouraging that we have still win games shooting under 40% with 20+ turnovers on the regular. I'd be worried if our players were actually playing well and it just not being enough. Our defensive and rebounding are solid and the offense WILL come. Roy won't miss point blank layups for 35% all season. Has he ever shot 35% on a season? Not even close. We showed how good we can look last game when our offensive looks halfway normal and the odds WILL even out in our favor EVENTUALLY. We had a 5 and 6 game losing streak last year that was every bit as bad as this, but we turned it around even though you negative nancies cried the whole time. Just relax and get a grip people or go whine on some other board where people want to hear it. Go Pacers!

InYaFace
11-18-2012, 03:55 PM
Wow...that was ugly!

When you look at the boxscore, the only two areas where we really sucked are shooting and turnovers.
I think West and George had ok games and Gerald Green shot 100%, but didn't shoot much before the last 3 minutes...I don't get that?!
Tyler Hansbrough gave us that energy game...yeah and that's about it...

The reason we lost so bad was the fact that our two centers both really sucked...I get all the Hibbert hate, but I don't feel like he is the one to blame. He didn't gave himself this contract! I don't think that Hibbert does perform so bad by design. He is a hard worker, he played good last year and Portland made him this offer...of course the PD GMs out here wouldn't have made this deal, because back then it was crystal clear that Omer Asik would perform better than our Allstar Center...come on guys. Hibbert is in a big big slump but instead of whining about his contract and making comparissons to the Murphleavy era, we should cool down and talk about how he maybe could get out of his slump. Man we didn't gave up on Stephenson, so why the hell should we give up on Hibbert now???

I blame the coaching staff for giving Hibbert the ball too much today, but I understand that a guy who has no confidence has to shoot and hit to get his confidence back. I think today was just a bit too much feeding Roy...and Mahinmi too!

Hill and Lance both had bad games too...they had decent assist numbers (which is freaking good, when you look at our poor shooting), but both couldn't hit a shot on their own today.

So why didn't we hit a shot? A lot of that has to do with the mentality of shooting stupid 3's, making an entry pass and waiting what happens and giving the wrong guy in the wrong position the ball. Lance made too much 1on1 today.

Oh did I mention DJ Augustine??? WOW...who remembers that this guy was the starter of a NBA team for several years??? He is just not comitted, it is crazy...little Hans has 10000000000000000 times more aggressivenes and passion in his game than Augustine.

Okay...we lost against the Knicks in a game where we played good D again but couldn't hit anything. I hope our coaches and our players come together and regroup some time in the not to distant future, but for now watching them play really reminds me of 2008/09...ugly ball.

Go Pacers...season isn't over yet! GO ROY HIBBERT!!!

xtacy
11-18-2012, 03:57 PM
Well Portland got very lucky.

someone on realgm forum was calling him hedo 2.0.

LG33
11-18-2012, 03:59 PM
Someone needs to organize a players only meeting. The body language of this team is terrible; you could tell they were going to lose as soon as the Knicks went up double-digits.

boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 04:00 PM
We have the best defense in basketball. And were second in the league in rebounds.

Magic P
11-18-2012, 04:03 PM
If any one see's a replay of the game can confirm this but early in the 2nd half Roy was boxing out Melo on a FT attempt and Melo moved Roy. This is unacceptable a small forward was moving our 7'2 center.

3rdStrike
11-18-2012, 04:05 PM
Get better players. A lineup of Augustin, Green, Sam Young, Hansbrough, Mahimni is going to struggle against anyone.

You forgot Hibbert? Take out Mahinmi and the guys you mentioned went 6-for-9 with 3 turnovers. Roy Hibbert went 3-for-10 with 6 turnovers.

You can't blame it on the bench when they're brought into the game at a deficit every time.

OlBlu
11-18-2012, 04:06 PM
We have the best defense in basketball. And were second in the league in rebounds.

Ha, ha, that is a great joke. I don't care what the stats say, do you actually believe that? How do you rate the defense and by how many criteria? Is that rebound stat fueled by offensive rebounds? Make a few shots now and then and that will go down...:cool:

Cousy47
11-18-2012, 04:07 PM
The Pacers didn't really go cheap, they just went dumb. DJA makes a million more that DC. Mahinmi makes double what Lou made. Green makes the same money we could have resigned Barbosa for. The big point on money is we have 47+ million tied up in 4 starters and we're about 3 mill from tax limit. Money isn't the problem, the players are.

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:08 PM
Hibbert won't shoot 35% all season. He made the all-star team last year for a reason. Odds will even out in his favor just like when DG had the worst shooting percent in the league.

imawhat
11-18-2012, 04:08 PM
Hope he gets better.

Not a high hurdle.

vnzla81
11-18-2012, 04:10 PM
On a positive note this team is starting to look good, people need to stop freaking out, it has only been 10 games, so far so good I think, the bench is looking amazing too.

Go Pacers :dance2:

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:10 PM
Side note: Sam Young is a defensive stud. PG's defensive loos good too. Once we get our offensive to within normal standards I think we're going to be tough with or without DG33

MiaDragon
11-18-2012, 04:12 PM
Don't blame Roy Hibbert for how he plays. You're being too hard on him and frankly so is Coach Vogel. I mean, how is it supposed to help Hibbert's confidence that the coach will only play him 25 minutes? He should get the chance to play more minutes as he continues to struggle, because what matters most is his development. O'Brien was guilty of the same thing, only playing him 24 minutes a game in his second season when he should have been playing 34 regardless of his performance and regardless of matchups. He's a great guy and has an awesome personality and works hard. Geez, give the guy a break.

http://play.esea.net/global/media_preview.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.comicvine .com%2Fuploads%2F7%2F75222%2F2072040-not_sure_if_serious.jpg

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 04:12 PM
Or too bad Troy Murphy can't be on every team the Pacers play.

Wouldn't it be an interesting movie idea if in a futuristic, bizarro science fiction movie there was a coach who could cajole a top 10 field goal defense out of a team that was playing Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy heavy minutes for the entire season? Nah, probably too Hollywood make believe and not enough realism.

MiaDragon
11-18-2012, 04:14 PM
We have the best defense in basketball. And were second in the league in rebounds.

Maybe because the other team has the 2nd/3rd team on the floor in the second Qtr. When you shoot 20% you have quite a few more rebounds to grab.

Heisenberg
11-18-2012, 04:14 PM
The Pacers didn't really go cheap, they just went dumb. DJA makes a million more that DC. Mahinmi makes double what Lou made. Green makes the same money we could have resigned Barbosa for. The big point on money is we have 47+ million tied up in 4 starters and we're about 3 mill from tax limit. Money isn't the problem, the players are.Good luck with this. It doesn't fit the narrative a lot of people are trying to build.

mrknowname
11-18-2012, 04:15 PM
a three point threat would be nice

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:17 PM
If there is anyone on the team I'm not a fan of its Gerald Green. I seriously cringe every time he comes in the game and especially when he gets the ball. Hope he turns it around ... Right now i much prefer Sam Young at least he can play D and isnt retarded with the ball.

Brad8888
11-18-2012, 04:18 PM
On a positive note this team is starting to look good, people need to stop freaking out, it has only been 10 games, so far so good I think, the bench is looking amazing too.

Go Pacers :dance2:

ha ha :(

:sad:

3rdStrike
11-18-2012, 04:18 PM
.I get all the Hibbert hate, but I don't feel like he is the one to blame. He didn't gave himself this contract!

He kind of forced the Pacers hand by saying he was going to walk if they didn't match Portland's offer. Nice (and sad) to see another Indians fan ;)

boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 04:22 PM
On a positive note this team is starting to look good, people need to stop freaking out, it has only been 10 games, so far so good I think, the bench is looking amazing too.

Go Pacers :dance2:

I dont understand if this is extreme sarcasm or not?

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:23 PM
a three point threat would be nice

I don't get this argument honestly we have tons of shooters. Especially with Lance's improvement. I know our shots aren't falling now you cant tell me George, Green, Hill, Augustine, Lance, and West's midrange is not a competent shooting squad. We have a lot more shooters than the 2003-04 team did

3rdStrike
11-18-2012, 04:26 PM
Hibbert won't shoot 35% all season. He made the all-star team last year for a reason..

Two reasons, actually:

1. Contract year
2. Every other center in the Eastern Conference not named Dwight Howard sucked.

As I said months ago when I argued that we should let Hibbert walk, him being an All Star was the subject of a few laughs for several NBA analysts. He's not a "perennial All Star" by any stretch. He can't even get back a small forward down, be serious.

xtacy
11-18-2012, 04:30 PM
He's a great guy and has an awesome personality and works hard.

i believe those things can be said for me too. ok where are my millions?

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:31 PM
Two reasons, actually:

1. Contract year
2. Every other center in the Eastern Conference not named Dwight Howard sucked.

As I said months ago when I argued that we should let Hibbert walk, him being an All Star was the subject of a few laughs for several NBA analysts. He's not a "perennial All Star" by any stretch. He can't even get back a small forward down, be serious.

You might want to rewatch footage from last season. He looked like a completely different player he just needs his confidence back. Do you not remember Noah unable to guard him? He can be a force. We had a great inside out game because of him last year. He got offered max contracts by three teams. I can't say to see him prove you wrong.

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:33 PM
i believe those things can be said for me too. ok where are my millions?

You'll get them when you become a professional athlete.

mrknowname
11-18-2012, 04:35 PM
I don't get this argument honestly we have tons of shooters. Especially with Lance's improvement. I know our shots aren't falling now you cant tell me George, Green, Hill, Augustine, Lance, and West's midrange is not a competent shooting squad. We have a lot more shooters than the 2003-04 team did


granger is our best at a career 38% from three

vnzla81
11-18-2012, 04:36 PM
And also how about that Mahinmi guy? best sign of the off season in the NBA if you ask me, he is like a mix of Hakeem with Russel, wow what a player.

BlueNGold
11-18-2012, 04:37 PM
The Pacers are in a funk and that's mostly because they lack shooters right now. Granger and Collison used to hit a lot of pressure shots and they are not out there. Also, Granger is clearly the best offensive weapon on the team and he's not there. Then there is the problem with the offense they attempted to install...and now we are scrambling.

On top of that, I cannot emphasize enough how good the Knicks are this year. They have a lot of talent and while some of that is old talent, we are talking all-star level players coming off the bench. I recall bringing this up over the summer and people did not believe it. The Knicks will be a force to be reckoned with this year.

Kemo
11-18-2012, 04:37 PM
I think maybe I should step back and take a break from reading the forum for about a month untill the ship gets righted back on course with this team.. I am usually a pretty positive person, even while things are looking badly at the start of the season here for us... But I must say, that the utter gloom and badmouthing of our players and coaches from forum members whom are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" of Pacers fans, is really starting to get to me and making me not want to even be a part of all this.... It's bad enough having to watch it on the court, but then to have it all amplified 100 fold on an internet forum is just starting to wear thin on my psyche ...

Do the players and coaching staff deserve criticism for this stinky turd of a season beginning ?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!
And of course I not only condone it , but encourage it...

But some of the negative and derogatory comments I've seen over the last few weeks makes me ashamed, even moreso than of having to grit my teeth and watch our dismal play thus far this season...

Come on Pacers Digest , as a whole you guys/gals are BETTER than that .... /sigh

Sollozzo
11-18-2012, 04:40 PM
The Pacers are in a funk and that's mostly because they lack shooters right now. Granger and Collison used to hit a lot of pressure shots and they are not out there. Also, Granger is clearly the best offensive weapon on the team and he's not there. Then there is the problem with the offense they attempted to install...and now we are scrambling.

On top of that, I cannot emphasize enough how good the Knicks are this year. They have a lot of talent and while some of that is old talent, we are talking all-star level players coming off the bench. I recall bringing this up over the summer and people did not believe it. The Knicks will be a force to be reckoned with this year.


I was big all summer on the Knicks too. Never underestimate the impact that guys like Kidd and Sheed can have on a team, despite their age. These are two veteran champions who command instant respect in the locker room. They know how a championship team conducts itself and when they talk, the other guys listen.

Not signing Lin looks to be a smart move. I'd rather have Kidd and Felton. Felton is just a different player in NY.

The Knicks are just a more talented team than the Pacers from top to bottom, Granger or no Granger. I think you'd have to be out of your mind if you'd rather have the Pacers' roster than the Knicks.

pacers_heath
11-18-2012, 04:46 PM
Reggie was only a career 39% but yeah he sucked too

Pacer Fan
11-18-2012, 04:48 PM
:brokenrecord::brokenrecord::brokenrecord::brokenr ecord::brokenrecord:

I plea the 5th

vnzla81
11-18-2012, 04:50 PM
The Pacers are in a funk and that's mostly because they lack shooters right now. Granger and Collison used to hit a lot of pressure shots and they are not out there. Also, Granger is clearly the best offensive weapon on the team and he's not there. Then there is the problem with the offense they attempted to install...and now we are scrambling.

On top of that, I cannot emphasize enough how good the Knicks are this year. They have a lot of talent and while some of that is old talent, we are talking all-star level players coming off the bench. I recall bringing this up over the summer and people did not believe it. The Knicks will be a force to be reckoned with this year.

Nah the Pacers are just as good or even better, if Danny is here we beat them by at least 20, Danny would have destroyed Melo, Danny>>>>Melo, not only that but Roy>>> Chandler, BAMF>>> the whole Knicks team, by the way I can't believe we haven't given BAMF a long term extension yet, 60/5 years sounds about right to me.

Call me crazy but it looks to me like Green is on his way for 6th man of the year, if it wasn't for Mahinmi I would probably nominate him as the best off season signing in the NBA.

3rdStrike
11-18-2012, 04:50 PM
You might want to rewatch footage from last season. He looked like a completely different player he just needs his confidence back. Do you not remember Noah unable to guard him? He can be a force. We had a great inside out game because of him last year. He got offered max contracts by three teams. I can't say to see him prove you wrong.

I've yet to see a player who scores 12.8 ppg in his career year be called "a force" unless he's coming off the bench. I think you've still got the home team blinders on when it comes to Big Money.

mrknowname
11-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Reggie was only a career 39% but yeah he sucked too

smh. please tell me which player on the roster right now is going to replace grangers three point shooting?

greyhound80
11-18-2012, 05:00 PM
Wow...that was ugly!

When you look at the boxscore, the only two areas where we really sucked are shooting and turnovers.


You mean the two most important stats?
I thought we were going to emphasize ball movement and open up the court more. I saw us dumping it in to Roy again today. That is never, ever, EVER going to work. He is not very good and no one ever goes to the boards when he shoots. Not gonna work!
At one point today we trailed 26-21 for about five minutes. We stopped them time after time and what did we do? Come down, shoot a quick jumper or watch Roy miss a jump hook. When you suck at shooting, how about emphasize off. rebounding and getting to the FT line?

shags
11-18-2012, 05:01 PM
I was big all summer on the Knicks too. Never underestimate the impact that guys like Kidd and Sheed can have on a team, despite their age. These are two veteran champions who command instant respect in the locker room. They know how a championship team conducts itself and when they talk, the other guys listen.

Not signing Lin looks to be a smart move. I'd rather have Kidd and Felton. Felton is just a different player in NY.

The Knicks are just a more talented team than the Pacers from top to bottom, Granger or no Granger. I think you'd have to be out of your mind if you'd rather have the Pacers' roster than the Knicks.

Plus if Amare concedes to go to the bench, you have a bench unit of Prigioni, Smith, Novak, Amare, and Sheed. That's 3 good shooters (Smith, Novak, and Sheed) to allow spacing for an Amare and Prigioni (or Felton or Kidd) pick and roll game.

xtacy
11-18-2012, 05:01 PM
You'll get them when you become a professional athlete.

not enough though. also have to find guys stupid enough to think good character is enough to give someone that kind of money. that's not easy.

Hypnotiq
11-18-2012, 05:03 PM
Im done with Roy yeah call this an overreaction post but why every single damn year does he do this funk garbage we shouldnt have given him the max because of this very reason he's way to inconsistent.

ughh

xtacy
11-18-2012, 05:09 PM
Im done with Roy yeah call this an overreaction post but why every single damn year does he do this funk garbage we shouldnt have given him the max because of this very reason he's way to inconsistent.

ughh

don't say that man. he's an awesome person.

Justin Tyme
11-18-2012, 05:54 PM
Our offseason additions have added up to a big fat O.


AND just who left this team in a mess 3 years ago? Oh yeah, the same person who is in charge of this team now!

I quit watching this game in the 3rd qtr. I'd seen enough of little ball movement and too much 3 pt shooting. Another game of shooting 20 3ptrs. Don't tell me Jimmy Vogel can't reign in the players from relying on shooting 3's. If he can't or won't, then he needs to step down and let someone else who can. I had my fill of stretch 4's and 3 pt shooting under the last coach to last me a life time.

Just how many games into the season does it take to come to the conclusion this team needs fixed? What really P***** me off is I went thru the brawl, the albatross contracts that Walsh brought in, and the JOB years for this crap!

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 06:04 PM
Im done with Roy yeah call this an overreaction post but why every single damn year does he do this funk garbage we shouldnt have given him the max because of this very reason he's way to inconsistent.

ughh

Three years ago I perceived a colossal mistake brewing for a fanbase to be fervently opposed to a Coach's decision to not revolve the entire team around an awkward, poor rebounding, asmathic second year center and to "limit" his playing time to 25 minutes per game and in a situational context. It was a mistake to think it was generally best to reward Hibbert with more minutes when it was not always deserved. To perceive Roy Hibbert as a someday franchise cornerstone who would someday become a reliable rebounder and would someday not go into future shutdown funks so long as he had a friendlier, less demanding, less pricklier coach was always a mistake and a bad habit which we are paying for today. Most Pacers fans have always been unfair to Hibbert for expecting him to be something that he is not and never will be, and for not holding him more accountable sooner. Hey in one sense I'm happy for him that these delusions and excuse making on his behalf by many fans and carried over into the front office have made him a very wealthy man, but it's also rather unfair for most to expect him to be a consistent 17 and 10 and 2 guy, the kind of production which would be commensurate with his new contract. It would sure be nice though if he could at least shoot 50% someday and regularly give us more than 9 rebounds a night. As was the case a few years ago and remains today, sometimes we are just a better team with Roy Hibbert sitting on the bench.

DonSwanson
11-18-2012, 06:30 PM
Im done with Roy yeah call this an overreaction post but why every single damn year does he do this funk garbage we shouldnt have given him the max because of this very reason he's way to inconsistent.

ughh

It started a few years ago when the vast majority of fans were outraged over Hibbert's "lack" of playing time and that he wasn't handed an unconditional starting lineup guarantee. What? I couldn't believe it, because I always felt it was too much too soon to play the guy that much, and now here we are. My assumption was that very few teams and very few coaches would have been comfortable with playing this guy 25 minutes a night and handing him an unconditional starting lineup spot in just his season season. But we can't be done with him now. We've made our bed and now we're sleeping in it.

IndySDExport
11-18-2012, 06:49 PM
So I flew to NYto see this game. Bought my tickets before the season started. Worst game I've ever been too by far.

I usually enjoy a good back and forth with the Knicks fans, Even when we lose. This time though there was no ribbing, no trash talk. The Knicks fans just felt sorry for me. Even bought me a beer.

Blah...

Justin Tyme
11-18-2012, 07:00 PM
It started a few years ago when the vast majority of fans were outraged over Hibbert's "lack" of playing time and that he wasn't handed an unconditional starting lineup guarantee. What? I couldn't believe it, because I always felt it was too much too soon to play the guy that much, and now here we are. My assumption was that very few teams and very few coaches would have been comfortable with playing this guy 25 minutes a night and handing him an unconditional starting lineup spot in just his season season. But we can't be done with him now. We've made our bed and now we're sleeping in it.


Walsh made the bed for Hibbert that Herb Simon is now paying for. Not to mention having the Pacers Nation up in arms with the terrible play they are having to watch.
Welcome back Donnie.

Last part in GREEN.

D-BONE
11-18-2012, 07:09 PM
granger is our best at a career 38% from three

This team has not a single player who is a true three point threat. By that I mean a guy who, whenever he gets even a decent look from deep, everyone holds their breath or cringes (opposition). Our guys are more like, well he might hit, but he might brick and then tailspin into an ice cold streak for a few games.

DrFife
11-18-2012, 07:40 PM
This team has not a single player who is a true three point threat. By that I mean a guy who, whenever he gets even a decent look from deep, everyone holds their breath or cringes (opposition). Our guys are more like, well he might hit, but he might brick and then tailspin into an ice cold streak for a few games.

This!

Like everyone, I've endured the Milwaukee-Dallas-New York roller-coaster ... but even when I put on my rose-colored glasses and imagine the team once things "come together," I still believe a couple critical pieces are missing. A true 3-pt threat is at or near the top of the wish list (along with collective BB IQ).

idioteque
11-18-2012, 07:50 PM
The building I work in is literally attached to the Verizon Center, and I still don't know if I want to go to Wizards-Pacers tomorrow night. Ugh.

MvPlumlee
11-18-2012, 07:52 PM
If any one see's a replay of the game can confirm this but early in the 2nd half Roy was boxing out Melo on a FT attempt and Melo moved Roy. This is unacceptable a small forward was moving our 7'2 center.
No need to watch the replay. It happens all the time. I've seen guards pushing him to the floor and centers who almost carried him outside the stadium. As long as he gets his stats, it shouldn't really matter that much.

It is embarrassing though. So was this game.

MvPlumlee
11-18-2012, 08:07 PM
This!

Like everyone, I've endured the Milwaukee-Dallas-New York roller-coaster ... but even when I put on my rose-colored glasses and imagine the team once things "come together," I still believe a couple critical pieces are missing. A true 3-pt threat is at or near the top of the wish list (along with collective BB IQ).

I'd say both Georges are closer to a 3-pt threat than Hibbert is being a post threat right now. IMO it's probably the best offensive weapon they have. And Lance isn't doing to shabby either.
If we can all blame our perimeter players for the struggles of our big man, is it so unthinkable that are slow footed big man are hurting them as well?

Naptown_Seth
11-18-2012, 08:08 PM
How the hell is this Donnie Walsh's fault? He didn't make Vogel the coach and he didn't bring in Hill and West. The STARTERS are awful on offense, not the bench. With Lance in the starting lineup and Vogel coaching, that's the LARRY BIRD vision.

You might as well blame it on being an even numbered year, it has as much to do with the situation as Donnie. Maybe 2 years from now when Mahinmi, Green, Hill and Roy are ruining the team and the 2 draft classes for Walsh look like duds then okay.

But this team has 10 times more to do with Larry than Donnie. And I don't even think it's Larry's fault. I just think Vogel is struggling to find his offensive vision and get them utilizing it. Plus Granger being out does hurt a little.

vnzla81
11-18-2012, 08:14 PM
How the hell is this Donnie Walsh's fault? He didn't make Vogel the coach and he didn't bring in Hill and West. The STARTERS are awful on offense, not the bench. With Lance in the starting lineup and Vogel coaching, that's the LARRY BIRD vision.

You might as well blame it on being an even numbered year, it has as much to do with the situation as Donnie. Maybe 2 years from now when Mahinmi, Green, Hill and Roy are ruining the team and the 2 draft classes for Walsh look like duds then okay.

But this team has 10 times more to do with Larry than Donnie. And I don't even think it's Larry's fault. I just think Vogel is struggling to find his offensive vision and get them utilizing it. Plus Granger being out does hurt a little.

Yep I've been saying it for a while now Walsh should be in the nomination for executive of the year he is just great.

boombaby1987
11-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Yep I've been saying it for a while now Walsh should be in the nomination for executive of the year he is just great.

Your sarcasm is giving me a headache.

MvPlumlee
11-18-2012, 08:26 PM
Yep I've been saying it for a while now Walsh should be in the nomination for executive of the year he is just great.

They better nominate him quickly then. Executive of the year always gets awarded in november.

Naptown_Seth
11-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Side note: Sam Young is a defensive stud. PG's defensive loos good too. Once we get our offensive to within normal standards I think we're going to be tough with or without DG33
Completely agree. The steal to dunk the other night was all him rotating from his man to cover the PnR going into the lane where Tyler was not covering the return pass. Young saw it and anticipated the pass. He did that against today on several occasions. And then there was the defense on JR Smith.

Young is the team's best defender.


If they could only score some points. Until then I think you have to bet the under every game they play. We might be headed to a 65-60 game at some point.


edit - and I think Woodson has some great plays on the NY side. I noticed they don't do PnR, they do Pick for pass instead, or a give and go variant instead of that. So the result is a man coming past the pick at full speed and catching the ball just past it, going 1-2 dribbles right into the scoring attack or pass back to the roll. It works like a much faster PnR play that really pressures the defense to react quickly.

Giving that and the fact that they have an elite scorer like Melo on their team, not to mention a set of proven capable bigs, I think the Pacers deserve credit for their ability to make the Knicks struggle on offense.

doctor-h
11-18-2012, 08:55 PM
You can't say anything on this site without ridicule from all the cool aid drinkers here. It was a rediculous off season, we wasted our cap space. Our off season was a prototype for a mediocre franchise. WeT did nothing with our cap money but overpay average players and sign projects. We hire Walsh whose time has come and gone. He will sit on this mess until nobody is in the stands or he will make a bad trade just to try to pacify the fan base. They have tried to lure fans with a giant scoreboard and totally over estimated this mentally weak bunch of players. Everyone thinks Paul and Roy can be stars. A star has a certain mindset and these guys have nothing even resembling that. Back where we started Pacer fans, I told you so

Heisenberg
11-18-2012, 09:13 PM
https://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA/status/270256238758088706


Hibbert: "I put the onus on me. I’m tired of playing like some (expletive)." Putting cuss word n would be better but I want to stay employed



Well, at least he's aware of it. Would be pretty hard not to be. Now fix it.

McKeyFan
11-18-2012, 09:26 PM
You might want to rewatch footage from last season. He looked like a completely different player he just needs his confidence back. Do you not remember Noah unable to guard him? He can be a force. We had a great inside out game because of him last year. He got offered max contracts by three teams. I can't say to see him prove you wrong.
Do the admins hire these guys to keep up the two way discussion?

:whoknows:

presto123
11-18-2012, 09:35 PM
Every time I would read on here over the last two years somebody touting Hibbert and Paul George as our future I would roll my eyes. I hate being right on this one but it's sure looking that way.

presto123
11-18-2012, 09:43 PM
Both Crawford and Mayo are averaging over 20 points/game so far. Makes you sick doesn't it? Kaman sounds like a far better and cheaper option too right? What could have been this past off season.

Heisenberg
11-18-2012, 09:56 PM
I'm going to keep saying it until people read it.

OJ Mayo got offered more money by "other teams." We don't know who. But I bet one of them was us.

Justin Tyme
11-18-2012, 10:18 PM
How the hell is this Donnie Walsh's fault? He didn't make Vogel the coach and he didn't bring in Hill and West. The STARTERS are awful on offense, not the bench. With Lance in the starting lineup and Vogel coaching, that's the LARRY BIRD vision.

You might as well blame it on being an even numbered year, it has as much to do with the situation as Donnie. Maybe 2 years from now when Mahinmi, Green, Hill and Roy are ruining the team and the 2 draft classes for Walsh look like duds then okay.

But this team has 10 times more to do with Larry than Donnie. And I don't even think it's Larry's fault. I just think Vogel is struggling to find his offensive vision and get them utilizing it. Plus Granger being out does hurt a little.



It's easy to say the starters and problems are on Bird, but I didn't see Walsh upgrading the starters. What I saw Walsh do was overpay to keep Hibbert and Hill. That's on Walsh.

Walsh decided not to re-sign last years bench players. Walsh made the the decision which players to bring in this year.

Walsh is in control, but I guess he is blameless of any current problems. He made the decisions, so he alone is responsible for his decisions. You act like Walsh is teflon and his poor managerial decisions can't stick to him. Sorry, but the buck stops with Walsh.

If Walsh can't make changes to righten the ship, he needs to be replaced with someone who can and will.

Hypnotiq
11-18-2012, 10:33 PM
Why does everyone single out Donnie?

Pritchard deserves some blame aswell

Cactus Jax
11-18-2012, 10:33 PM
I got league pass and barely watch the team at all, its one thing when its at least entertaining bad (JOB), but when I find myself looking for something else to do cause I see the team not going to reach 80 points is just boring. Defense is obviously important but what i've seen of these games reminds me of a bad version of late 90's Fratello coached teams, where it's going to be a 85-80 type of score and its just bad basketball.

The team is doing enough defensively, it's just overall as a group is an atrocious offensive team. Can't shoot, can't pass, can't screen, can't post up, drive to lane, anything really. If the Pacers are serious, Vogel would have 9 games imo to make things better, if they still are dreadful and have an under .500 record in those games, he'd be gone. All the work to get fans back will very quickly go away with this awful display of basketball.

Pacerized
11-18-2012, 10:34 PM
It's easy to say the starters and problems are on Bird, but I didn't see Walsh upgrading the starters. What I saw Walsh do was overpay to keep Hibbert and Hill. That's on Walsh.
Walsh decided not to re-sign last years bench players. Walsh made the the decision which players to bring in this year.
Walsh is in control, but I guess he is blameless of any current problems. He made the decisions, so he alone is responsible for his decisions. You act like Walsh is teflon and his poor managerial decisions can't stick to him. Sorry, but the buck stops with Walsh.
If Walsh can't make changes to righten the ship, he needs to be replaced with someone who can and will.

Well said.
First I have doubts as to if Larry would have overpaid Hill like Walsh seemed to have done for no real reason and I question if he would have paid Hibbert the Max.
Walsh made the wrong moves in the offseason, downgraded our bench, killed our chemistry and squandered very hard earned cap space.
There is no excuse for Hibbert this year and that's not Walsh's fault. But the difference in having last years bench to this years bench would have been enough to put us over the top in most of our losses. With the money he had to spend he should have been able to really improve on last years bench. Poor time management (which falls on Walsh) cost us Scola. Giving away DC for a player he didn't need to trade for because he though Augustin was a better fit was is on Walsh. Replacing more players then he needed to which hurt our chemistry is on Walsh.
We really, really need Larry back at the end of this season.

MyFavMartin
11-18-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe Vogel needs to get thrown out of a game for going Bob knight on his players. Vogel has always backed up his players. Now they're not backing him up.

TOP
11-18-2012, 10:45 PM
At what point is Roy Hibbert stealing money?

I hate to pile on him, especially since he acknowledged he's playing awful but man... he's play like the worst max contract player in the history of the NBA. He's only reached double digits in points 4 times and double digits in rebounds 3 times. A lot of time season but that's awful for 1/8 of the season. And 37.9% shooting... gosh.

I hate it for him but eve more, I hate it for our fans. This season hasn't been fun at all so far. At 7'2 he should be a double double machine. This obviously isn't all on him but I pick on him because he's the one that just got the max contract. He said this is where he wanted to be but instead of even giving us a little bit of discount and leeway, he signed Portland's offersheet and forced us to match to keep him. The Pacers held up their end by making sure he stayed in Indiana, it's his turn to start earning his ridiculous salary.

MyFavMartin
11-18-2012, 10:46 PM
I miss DC:....

TOP
11-18-2012, 10:47 PM
It's easy to say the starters and problems are on Bird, but I didn't see Walsh upgrading the starters. What I saw Walsh do was overpay to keep Hibbert and Hill. That's on Walsh.

Walsh decided not to re-sign last years bench players. Walsh made the the decision which players to bring in this year.

Walsh is in control, but I guess he is blameless of any current problems. He made the decisions, so he alone is responsible for his decisions. You act like Walsh is teflon and his poor managerial decisions can't stick to him. Sorry, but the buck stops with Walsh.

If Walsh can't make changes to righten the ship, he needs to be replaced with someone who can and will.

Funny thing is...

Amundson, Barbosa and Collison are cheaper than Augustin, Green and Mahinimi.

Depressing.

Ace E.Anderson
11-19-2012, 12:20 AM
I miss DC:....

Must not have seen the game against the Mavs.

Ace E.Anderson
11-19-2012, 12:25 AM
It's HILARIOUS that when Hill is hitting clutch shots and closing out games, he's such a winner/closer, but the second he has a bad game ppl "miss DC", Hill is overpaid, and is the root to our offensive problems. Typical

DonSwanson
11-19-2012, 12:32 AM
Absolutely hilarious how Mike Wells is invoking Jim O'Brien while discussing Roy Hibbert's struggles in his pathetic little blog. The guy has no imagination whatsoever but at least I got a chuckle out of him bringing up "Satan." LOL Mike Wells. O'Brien ruined Hibbert don't you know? Just ask any Pacers fan and they'll tell you all about it! I would feel sorry for any team that has to depend on this guy. I feel sorry for MY team. Two years ago I wanted to ship him out of town while he still had some appeal around the league and try and work something to land Anderson Varejao. I love that guy's toughness. Would love to see Hibbert get booed on Wednesday night if he can't step up against a Nene-Less Wizards team tomorrow night.

Hicks
11-19-2012, 12:56 AM
This has been a nightmare of falling dominoes. I had no idea Granger's absence could be so disastrous. I knew it would hurt, but this was the equivalent of a 50-something win team last year with otherwise the same starters, same staff, and a revised bench that on paper looked like an equal or better fit.

Yet God damn if not nearly everyone is playing the worst ball of their lives save maybe Lance and Tyler. And those two aren't exactly begging for big bucks on their next contracts.

This has just been a spectacular disaster thus far. So many of these players are and have been better than this. They really are/have. But this turn of events has appeared to have this demonic ripple effect on practically the entire roster, and honestly Frank is not the ideal coach to deal with this situation.

It's not that he's a bad coach, but this is his first tour of duty in his career, and in tough times like this I think a team really needs a veteran coach who can better keep the ship afloat, be a constant teacher during practice, and drill offensive sets that have better spacing and execution than this.

I still believe in what this team could/should be with a healthy Danny, but my God it's all come down like a house of cards with that piece missing.

Sooooo many things ought to be better than they are right now it's not even funny. I have no clue how they're going to straighten any of it out while Danny recovers. I wish I did.

They're theoretically much better than this, yet they seem incapable of pulling themselves out of the mud right now.

Dece
11-19-2012, 01:36 AM
What's actually HILARIOUS is there is nothing inconsistent there at all. I like Hill. I think he is an elite 6th man, solid starting 2, and average to sub average starting 1. Despite that he is overpaid. He is overpaid regardless of liking him because he was a restricted free agent who we gave a contract bidding against no one. Every single RFA ever you should tell them hey, go get an offer. You can always match it if you want. If you don't want to, then you can make your bid, and maybe they take a little pay cut to stay, maybe not. You NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER bid against yourself. That's the biggest failure possible in that scenario. Continuing with how these thoughts aren't inconsistent, despite liking Hill, I can still see that having BOTH Hill and Collison would improve out back court. You are presenting a false dichotomy that suggests we can only have 1 of these players. We could very easily still have both right now.

Peck
11-19-2012, 01:57 AM
Believe me I feel as odd typing this as you are about to feel reading this but here goes.

I actually don't think this is Donnie Walsh's fault. IMO this is Kevin Pritchard and frankly sadly mostly Herb Simon.

I think Kevin is working under the rule that there is a certain dollar amount that they will go to & that the best way to go was a slow steady improvement via the younger starters getting better & upgrading the bench.

I still in my gut believe that Bird was ready and wanted to take the next step & bring in another "name brand" player & when Herb restricted that he went from "ready to go" to "taking a break".

Does a lot of this look like something Donnie would have done? Well, yes. But I'm just of the opinion that Walsh stepped in at the last min. only because Simon did not have a working relationship with Pritchard & I heard Donnie say he was only here for a year.

Now if he is still here next year I'll gladly blame him but right now I just think that this is a combo of Pritchard/Simon.

wtelfair
11-19-2012, 02:16 AM
Don't blame Roy Hibbert for how he plays. You're being too hard on him and frankly so is Coach Vogel. I mean, how is it supposed to help Hibbert's confidence that the coach will only play him 25 minutes? He should get the chance to play more minutes as he continues to struggle, because what matters most is his development. O'Brien was guilty of the same thing, only playing him 24 minutes a game in his second season when he should have been playing 34 regardless of his performance and regardless of matchups. He's a great guy and has an awesome personality and works hard. Geez, give the guy a break.'

The man is making 15 million a year and you are talking about "Development". Please!

wtelfair
11-19-2012, 02:29 AM
Walsh is well known for spending Pacer money freely. Remember JO and Choshere.

rock747
11-19-2012, 02:33 AM
Believe me I feel as odd typing this as you are about to feel reading this but here goes.

I actually don't think this is Donnie Walsh's fault. IMO this is Kevin Pritchard and frankly sadly mostly Herb Simon.

I think Kevin is working under the rule that there is a certain dollar amount that they will go to & that the best way to go was a slow steady improvement via the younger starters getting better & upgrading the bench.

I still in my gut believe that Bird was ready and wanted to take the next step & bring in another "name brand" player & when Herb restricted that he went from "ready to go" to "taking a break".

Does a lot of this look like something Donnie would have done? Well, yes. But I'm just of the opinion that Walsh stepped in at the last min. only because Simon did not have a working relationship with Pritchard & I heard Donnie say he was only here for a year.

Now if he is still here next year I'll gladly blame him but right now I just think that this is a combo of Pritchard/Simon.

Yep. This.

Kemo
11-19-2012, 02:34 AM
He said this is where he wanted to be but instead of even giving us a little bit of discount and leeway, he signed Portland's offersheet and forced us to match to keep him. The Pacers held up their end by making sure he stayed in Indiana, it's his turn to start earning his ridiculous salary.

Actually the offer sheet never got to the point of being signed...

Kemo
11-19-2012, 02:42 AM
Would love to see Hibbert get booed on Wednesday night if he can't step up against a Nene-Less Wizards team tomorrow night.

What the hell is wrong with you?




I've had my fill of the village people with their pitchforks and torches out in full swing ..
On that note.. , it's time for me to bid you all adieu ...
I need a short break from this madness...



Quite a few of you are gonna look and feel really foolish in the near future for the harsh and ignorant comments spewing from your keyboards..

As said before, some of you aught to be ashamed of yourselves..

Hypnotiq
11-19-2012, 03:32 AM
Walsh is well known for spending Pacer money freely. Remember JO and Choshere.

Yeah he might have been behind the Roy and Hill contracts but i think Pritchard was the one doing the bench moves making it terrible

xtacy
11-19-2012, 03:38 AM
Funny thing is...

Amundson, Barbosa and Collison are cheaper than Augustin, Green and Mahinimi.

Depressing.

my head hurts when i think we pay mahinmi 4 mil.

DonSwanson
11-19-2012, 07:38 AM
What the hell is wrong with you?




I've had my fill of the village people with their pitchforks and torches out in full swing ..
On that note.. , it's time for me to bid you all adieu ...
I need a short break from this madness...



Quite a few of you are gonna look and feel really foolish in the near future for the harsh and ignorant comments spewing from your keyboards..

As said before, some of you aught to be ashamed of yourselves..

If I have offended you then I am truly sorry. And no, I'm not being sarcastic again. I just feel like in most cities, Hibbert would be getting booed by now and it would be the norm. While I've never been high on Hibbert, I haven't written Hibbert off yet and I think he'll get it together here at some point.

The Pacers will get it together at some point and I think you'll be right; it's probably too early to read too much into this 4-7 start. But that doesn't change my view that we'd be better off with someone like Varejao instead of having to rely on Hibbert.

Pacerized
11-19-2012, 10:40 AM
my head hurts when i think we pay mahinmi 4 mil.

I agree and for 4 years as well.
It doesn't hurt as bad today as it did the day Cuban fleeced us. I never once thought the overall move to get Ian, and Augustin were anything but terrible. Almost everyone declared what a good overall move it was and now we'd have a great distributor in Augustin and a big man who had worked for the past 5 years with Dirk and Duncan who could protect the rim.
Of course the fact that he still couldn't rebound or protect the rim even after playing 5 years with 2 of the best big men in the league didn't really matter, he was going to come in here and tear it up.
If Walsh wanted Ian he could have most likely signed him for 1 year at 4 mil and not give anything away to Cuban, better yet we could have signed the Center Cuban did by offering Kaman a longer contract while saving the money in keeping DC and Barbosa.

greyhound80
11-19-2012, 11:19 AM
Just checking to see if this post ever appears. Only one of my previous five have actually appeared.

BillS
11-19-2012, 11:27 AM
I actually don't think this is Donnie Walsh's fault.

:jawdrop:

Who hijacked Peck's account? :zip:

BillS
11-19-2012, 11:28 AM
Just checking to see if this post ever appears. Only one of my previous five have actually appeared.

New poster needs to have posts cleared until you get a certain number of them.

Justin Tyme
11-19-2012, 01:19 PM
This has been a nightmare of falling dominoes. I had no idea Granger's absence could be so disastrous. I knew it would hurt, but this was the equivalent of a 50-something win team last year with otherwise the same starters, same staff, and a revised bench that on paper looked like an equal or better fit.

Yet God damn if not nearly everyone is playing the worst ball of their lives save maybe Lance and Tyler. And those two aren't exactly begging for big bucks on their next contracts.

This has just been a spectacular disaster thus far. So many of these players are and have been better than this. They really are/have. But this turn of events has appeared to have this demonic ripple effect on practically the entire roster, and honestly Frank is not the ideal coach to deal with this situation.

It's not that he's a bad coach, but this is his first tour of duty in his career, and in tough times like this I think a team really needs a veteran coach who can better keep the ship afloat, be a constant teacher during practice, and drill offensive sets that have better spacing and execution than this.

I still believe in what this team could/should be with a healthy Danny, but my God it's all come down like a house of cards with that piece missing.

Sooooo many things ought to be better than they are right now it's not even funny. I have no clue how they're going to straighten any of it out while Danny recovers. I wish I did.

They're theoretically much better than this, yet they seem incapable of pulling themselves out of the mud right now.


If this team doesn't get out of their funk and takes on a whipped puppy attitude, Granger returning isn't the answer even with him wearing his Batman costume and doing his best impression of Batman.

The way this team is playing I'm not sure they can dig themselves out of the hole they have put themselves in to make the playoffs. That is such a sad thought after last years suiccess!

Justin Tyme
11-19-2012, 01:31 PM
What's actually HILARIOUS is there is nothing inconsistent there at all. I like Hill. I think he is an elite 6th man, solid starting 2, and average to sub average starting 1. Despite that he is overpaid. He is overpaid regardless of liking him because he was a restricted free agent who we gave a contract bidding against no one. Every single RFA ever you should tell them hey, go get an offer. You can always match it if you want. If you don't want to, then you can make your bid, and maybe they take a little pay cut to stay, maybe not. You NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER bid against yourself. That's the biggest failure possible in that scenario. Continuing with how these thoughts aren't inconsistent, despite liking Hill, I can still see that having BOTH Hill and Collison would improve out back court. You are presenting a false dichotomy that suggests we can only have 1 of these players. We could very easily still have both right now.


This is one of the better posts I've read on this board in awhile!!! Thanks again for you posting it.

rock747
11-19-2012, 01:34 PM
I agree and for 4 years as well.
It doesn't hurt as bad today as it did the day Cuban fleeced us. I never once thought the overall move to get Ian, and Augustin were anything but terrible. Almost everyone declared what a good overall move it was and now we'd have a great distributor in Augustin and a big man who had worked for the past 5 years with Dirk and Duncan who could protect the rim. Of course the fact that he still couldn't rebound or protect the rim even after playing 5 years with 2 of the best big men in the league didn't really matter, he was going to come in here and tear it up.
If Walsh wanted Ian he could have most likely signed him for 1 year at 4 mil and not give anything away to Cuban, better yet we could have signed the Center Cuban did by offering Kaman a longer contract while saving the money in keeping DC and Barbosa.

I think this is a common misconception. In fact, initially no one liked the trade. It wasn't until after listening to Pacer's propaganda that people actually starting warming up to it.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?74022-Ian-Mahinmi-to-Indiana/page2&highlight=iam+mahimni+darren+collison