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View Full Version : So, what is the solution?



greyhound80
11-15-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm new here. I have been a fan since Day One, 1967 although I was just a pup. I have seen some terrible Pacer teams. Sadly, this looks like one of them.
I don't see any solution to this team's woes from the current roster. Unless George and Hibbert miraculously start playing like big time NBA players, things look bleak.

What are your ideas for fixing this squad.

Sandman21
11-15-2012, 03:54 PM
For one, not panicking and giving into sponsor and fan pressure to make trades for the sake of making trades. I'm not going to mention what happened the LAST time that happened here.......

OlBlu
11-15-2012, 04:03 PM
I'm new here. I have been a fan since Day One, 1967 although I was just a pup. I have seen some terrible Pacer teams. Sadly, this looks like one of them.
I don't see any solution to this team's woes from the current roster. Unless George and Hibbert miraculously start playing like big time NBA players, things look bleak.

What are your ideas for fixing this squad.


Fire the coach.....:cool:

aamcguy
11-15-2012, 04:06 PM
Fire the coach.....:cool:

IMO we have 0 chance of making noise in the playoffs if we switch our coach mid-year because we don't have a superstar. We do have a chance of getting back on track and playing similar ball to last year with Vogel at the helm though. If by the end of the year we have not introduced a product that is better than last year, we simply don't pick up Vogel's option and we hire a coach without paying the salary for 2 coaches at the same time.

Mackey_Rose
11-15-2012, 04:08 PM
My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

OlBlu
11-15-2012, 04:12 PM
IMO we have 0 chance of making noise in the playoffs if we switch our coach mid-year because we don't have a superstar. We do have a chance of getting back on track and playing similar ball to last year with Vogel at the helm though. If by the end of the year we have not introduced a product that is better than last year, we simply don't pick up Vogel's option and we hire a coach without paying the salary for 2 coaches at the same time.

It is not midyear. It is the start of the season.... You let Vogel go and make Shaw the interim coach with no extra pay.... Vogel was not paid much.... But, that is the difference between the small market Pacers and the big market Lakers. The Lakers still owed their coach $11 million but when they decided it was not going to work, they ate that and made the change....:cool:

DGPR
11-15-2012, 04:22 PM
My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily.

I'm already way ahead of you on that.

vnzla81
11-15-2012, 04:40 PM
The answer is what they Pacers have been lacking for few years, a power forward that can defend and rebound(example:Varejao), a shot creator that can break defenses(example:Monta,Crawford,Mayo), a player that can shoot, open the floor and has the IQ necessary to make passes(Redick, Hayward, AK47, Korver).

And yes I'm not a Hayward fan but I have to admit that they guy moves without the ball pretty well and can make good passes :)

owl
11-15-2012, 04:54 PM
For one, not panicking and giving into sponsor and fan pressure to make trades for the sake of making trades. I'm not going to mention what happened the LAST time that happened here.......

Very true words. If you are going to be a Pacer fan patience is a handy virtue to have in your back pocket.

I would play out the year with the same coach and if some fantastic trade opportunity arose fine, otherwise play some of the new guys if it looks like the season is out of hand somewhere after the midpoint.

Needs for the Pacers are a mobile and strong PF. An aggressive shooting guard. Keep PG but use him for defense
and occasional spot up shooting. A player with DG's or Reggie's fire and mental toughness.

OlBlu
11-15-2012, 04:57 PM
Very true words. If you are going to be a Pacer fan patience is a handy virtue to have in your back pocket.

I would play out the year with the same coach and if some fantastic trade opportunity arose fine, otherwise play some of the new guys if it looks like the season is out of hand somewhere after the midpoint.

Needs for the Pacers are a mobile and strong PF. An aggressive shooting guard. Keep PG but use him for defense
and occasional spot up shooting. A player with DG's or Reggie's fire and mental toughness.

Fire the damn coach, he should never have been given the job in the first place...... By the end of the year, they will be out of contention for anything but a lottery pick...:cool:

DGPR
11-15-2012, 05:01 PM
Fire the damn coach, he should never have been given the job in the first place...... By the end of the year, they will be out of contention for anything but a lottery pick...:cool:

He lead a team that was headed straight to lottery land into the playoffs instead, and gave a top notch Bulls team all they could handle. What makes you think he shouldn't have been given the job? Vogel isn't out there throwing the ball away 25 times a game and giving up offensive rebounds.

greyhound80
11-15-2012, 05:05 PM
Indy Star has article today interviewing NBA scouts about Pacers plight. Found it very interesting, very true and very depressing.

greyhound80
11-15-2012, 05:06 PM
Agree! Thought he handled last year very well also.

OlBlu
11-15-2012, 05:44 PM
He lead a team that was headed straight to lottery land into the playoffs instead, and gave a top notch Bulls team all they could handle. What makes you think he shouldn't have been given the job? Vogel isn't out there throwing the ball away 25 times a game and giving up offensive rebounds.

You have no idea if JOB would have done the same thing. The schedule was favorable for a solid end to the season. The Bulls had the best record in basketball, the Pacers had nothing for them. They won a playoff round because Orlando's superstar was injured. Howard plays, the Pacers lose 4-0. They won a couple of games from the Heat because Bosh was hurt but when the Heat adjusted to that, they blew them away. It is Vogel's offense and his system. He doesn't adapt well or make good changes. He gets outcoached at every turn. He had no headcoaching experience. It was OK to let him finish the season but then they needed to hire a real coach......:cool:

jjbjjbjjb
11-15-2012, 06:23 PM
Vogel made the Pacers so much better simply because, on his first day upon taking over from JOB, Vogel installed, as his starting lineup from there going forward, the five most talented players at the five positions. Obvious as that may seem, coming from JOB crazy/stupid-land it was a big step. Unfortunately, Vogel doesn't seem to be able to deliver many nonobvious improvements.

PacersHomer
11-15-2012, 07:20 PM
There are two ways teams can win championships in today's NBA: Bottom out and hope for a #1 pick or be in a big market.

BlueNGold
11-15-2012, 07:44 PM
If the team is still playing like this in January, I may start becoming concerned. Teams go through stretches. But it's not like we've stunk like we did with Jim O'Brien for 4 years.

clownskull
11-15-2012, 08:45 PM
i looked at the rest of november's schedule and there are several games where even if our opponents take us lightly, we will likely lose.
i see 3 possible wins remaining this month. at washington on the 19th, home against the hornets and the 30th against the kings.
i know the lakers have struggled but it is in l.a. and if they are going to have a bad game and win, they are still likely to beat a dysfunctional pacer squad. by the time danny gets back (IF he gets back this year) it may be too late to even matter considering it will be a month before he is in playing shape again.

Naptown_Seth
11-15-2012, 09:31 PM
For one, not panicking and giving into sponsor and fan pressure to make trades for the sake of making trades. I'm not going to mention what happened the LAST time that happened here.......
I do agree with this. Green is settling in, Mahinmi is starting to get on track and even Sam Young had a better outing once he got in the game in Millwaukee.

Roy is playing poorly but we know he is better than this, ditto Hill and West who have had good games this season. Paul's not a team start but he's a decent starter. They have enough talent to win, so don't foolishly punt the talent.



Frank needs to rework some of the plays and get guys into better spacing. The theme of zones, traps/doubles that force easy to steal skip passes back across the lane (from down near the baseline by the time the pass is attempted), aggressively attacking the low post with double/triple teams...we've seen the same thing basically every night. There are answers to this.

Occasionally we've seen some nice rotations that end up back in the opposite side low post for a good look. I think you have to look at that. Feed the low post, kick back out and look for a repost quickly, for effect rather than a scoring attempt - ie, you just want to make them show and start moving. If/when nothing is there have the post feed drift upward to set up a clearer skip pass to the weakside high arc, not the opposite corner, which should help on giving teams time to recover on rotations. So then they rotate to that guy and he shows the pass to the baseline corner and then drives high side/FT line. Have the low post come out and pick for the post feed guy so he can come to the lane and take the dump pass when the low post defender moves to stop the dribble drive. And that last part is one of the areas they are suffering the most from, not adding that last bit of movement/screen/pick to punish the aggressive rotations.

Right now the plays are high PnR and that's it. So the defense traps the dribble and jumps the bailout pass. Or they go low post with a post feed that takes too long. Once in the post with Roy the plays unfold too slowly, he sizes everything up way too much. Plus the baseline give and go is so focused on trying to always get the return pass that the defender easily reads it, and it would be better to show a lot more hard run throughs that then become screens at the opposite high post (everyone expects the standard baseline to baseline cutter pick, so mix it up). Teams are so focused on doubling down on Roy that if the go-through goes and picks for a picker, then that guy comes over and backpicks that guy looking down to Roy and his man comes free to move across the FT line for a nice mid-jumper or even a dump drive right down the lane. And that's a cleaner pass for Roy because it goes right between the low post defender and the guy trying to drop down and dig the ball out.

BlueNGold
11-15-2012, 10:25 PM
For now, the solution is to run the offense through Lance and DWest. They both have game. Have Paul focus on catching and scoring around the basket....and rebounding because he could be special at that. Roy should probably move to the high post most of the time and play more like Rik Smits who also had problems in the low post. That will keep his defender out of rebounding position...so Paul can swoop in there and use his length and quickness on the boards.

SIR-LANCE-ALOT
11-16-2012, 03:06 AM
We must trade for a star player!!!

greyhound80
11-16-2012, 12:20 PM
You can't run an offense through Roy.
Don't know why they stubbornly keep trying to do that.

greyhound80
11-16-2012, 12:22 PM
You cannot run an offense through Roy.
I don't know why they stubbornly keep trying to do that.