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McKeyFan
11-14-2012, 09:40 PM
Yeah, it's still the 3rd quarter.

picasso
11-14-2012, 09:46 PM
Yeah, it's still the 3rd quarter.



Hollyshit... This just hit the fan, Reality has just hit me in the face.
WE SUCK.. We are beyond bad... Paul George you are a fraud!

Davis you quit all the time and don't seem to care.. Hibbert
my god man have some pride. You got Daly hitting KG esque fade aways?
ARE YOU SERIOUS???

1984
11-14-2012, 09:46 PM
Yeah, it's still the 3rd quarter.

The game was over after the first quarter; that is when George Hill gave the Bucks points between quarters. Amazing, we can't even keep a team from scoring when it's not regulation.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 09:47 PM
It was over in 6 minutes.

Kid Minneapolis
11-14-2012, 09:50 PM
Haha.

tora tora
11-14-2012, 09:52 PM
Another game that Vogel doesn't have the guys prepared... but hey, at least he can spin a basketball on a toothbrush. 635

Ace E.Anderson
11-14-2012, 09:57 PM
Well I wonder what positive spin Vogel can put on this game?

Remember "nobody wants to play Tyler Hansbrough?"

Well EVERYBODY wants to play the Indians Pacers right now.

PacersHomer
11-14-2012, 09:58 PM
Blow it up.

Miller_time04
11-14-2012, 10:01 PM
Terrible.

ndcoltsnpacers
11-14-2012, 10:01 PM
Blow it up.

You thinkin' what I'm thinkin'? Four Year Plan, baby!!!

BornReady
11-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Kahn's team is better than ours x.x

Pace Maker
11-14-2012, 10:08 PM
3 year plan

aamcguy
11-14-2012, 10:08 PM
On the bright side, we had some good bench production. They outscored our starters 48-33. Oh, you say it's because the bench played the whole game? The starters outlasted the rest of the bench 137-97.

Nuntius
11-14-2012, 10:09 PM
I loved Tyler's passion. 3rd stingers didn't look bad either.

Just play the bench.

cdash
11-14-2012, 10:10 PM
I don't know what to do. Who is to blame? Did Bird's presence really affect the team that much? Do we really miss Granger's shooting and toughness this much? Is there a problem in the locker room? Is it Vogel's system and lack of flexibility? Did the front office kill us with it's offseason moves? Are the players just missing shots? Have they checked out? I need answers.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 10:10 PM
Just play the bench.Hell, it's not even that crazy an idea.

Mr_Smith
11-14-2012, 10:10 PM
disgraceful......blow this **** up, blow it all up and start over AGAIN

presto123
11-14-2012, 10:10 PM
Right now: Plumlee>Mahinmi>Hibbert.

TOP
11-14-2012, 10:11 PM
7pts 8rebs

max contract

puke

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 10:11 PM
I don't think I'm crazy to think in playing Ben and Plumlee over Ian and DJ, do it Vogel.

presto123
11-14-2012, 10:12 PM
I don't think I'm crazy to think in playing Ben and Plumlee over Ian and DJ, do it Vogel.

I would take Plumlee in a heartbeat over Mahinmi.

cdash
11-14-2012, 10:12 PM
I'm being serious: What are some real solutions to correct what ails this team? Hell, before you answer that, what exactly is it that ails this team? Time to go through the process: Admit we have a problem(s), identify the problem(s), explore possible solutions.

TOP
11-14-2012, 10:13 PM
Kaman has 18pts 7rebs 2asts 1blk and 1stl heading into the 4th quarter.

Should have traded Hibbert and signed him.

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:14 PM
Going down like the Hindenburgh?

TOP
11-14-2012, 10:15 PM
Also...

22minutes
20minutes
18minutes

That's how many minutes 3 of the Bucks starters played tonight. Only needed them for 1 and 3/4 quarters.

Nuntius
11-14-2012, 10:16 PM
Admit we have a problem(s), identify the problem(s), explore possible solutions.

That's the spirit.

Eleazar
11-14-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm being serious: What are some real solutions to correct what ails this team? Hell, before you answer that, what exactly is it that ails this team? Time to go through the process: Admit we have a problem(s), identify the problem(s), explore possible solutions.

I know what the problems are with Vogel, but that only explains so much. I have no idea about Hibbert and the shooting. MY only solution is to bench all of the starters on Friday, and hope it wakes them up.

Brad8888
11-14-2012, 10:18 PM
I'm being serious: What are some real solutions to correct what ails this team? Hell, before you answer that, what exactly is it that ails this team? Time to go through the process: Admit we have a problem(s), identify the problem(s), explore possible solutions.

I think that they need to complete all 12 steps.

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:18 PM
Problem 1: Our front office is inept

Problem 2: Our coach is inept

Problem 3: Our players are inept

Solution: Pray

Pingu
11-14-2012, 10:19 PM
Let's be realistic. The only easily replaceable part on this team is the coach. So let's just fire Frank and see whether another coach can turn things around. If not, then you can start thinking about trading Roy, West, Paul, etc.

Nuntius
11-14-2012, 10:19 PM
MY only solution is to bench all of the starters on Friday, and hope it wakes them up.

Don't bench all the starters. Lance has done nothing wrong. Hill and West do try and show some heart. But bench Roy and PG. Place them in the inactive list. Just show that this is not allowed to continue.

cdash
11-14-2012, 10:20 PM
That's the spirit.

This is when we will see what Vogel is really made of. Can he make changes to his schemes? Can he add in a couple of plays that will result in easy points (because I don't think I've seen the Pacers score 4 easy points all season--it's just a battle every time)? It's time to see what everyone is made of. These are the darkest days since the O'Brien-to-Vogel handoff season when the Pacers lost 7 straight and got blown out by a crappy T-Wolves team. That year they rallied and made the playoffs. How will they respond this year?

graphic-er
11-14-2012, 10:20 PM
I noticed that the Bucks had Jennings and Ellis curling around picks at the FT line. To set up their drives. THey only needed 2 dribbles to get to the rim after the pick. Such a simple offensive set, but it works all the time. Why can't Vogel implement sets like these?!

CableKC
11-14-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't know what to do. Who is to blame? Did Bird's presence really affect the team that much? Do we really miss Granger's shooting and toughness this much? Is there a problem in the locker room? Is it Vogel's system and lack of flexibility? Did the front office kill us with it's offseason moves? Are the players just missing shots? Have they checked out? I need answers.
All of the above.

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 10:20 PM
Barbosa had 16 today.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 10:21 PM
At the very least they better be fielding offers for West. He's way to valuable an asset for what looks like a non-playoff team to hold onto.

cdash
11-14-2012, 10:22 PM
I do think we need some sets designed to give us easy points. Either that, or push the tempo a little bit. We have to score some easy baskets. The contested two point jumpers and predictable post up plays are clearly not working. Time to go back to basics and see if we can't get these guys some confidence.

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 10:23 PM
Let's be realistic. The only easily replaceable part on this team is the coach. So let's just fire Frank and see whether another coach can turn things around. If not, then you can start thinking about trading Roy, West, Paul, etc.

They should start thinking about trading people right about now, and then think about getting a coach.

Trade anybody but Hill,Paul,Tyler and Lance, trade everybody else.

CableKC
11-14-2012, 10:24 PM
Let's be realistic. The only easily replaceable part on this team is the coach. So let's just fire Frank and see whether another coach can turn things around. If not, then you can start thinking about trading Roy, West, Paul, etc.
Shaw?

TMJ31
11-14-2012, 10:24 PM
The most bizarre thing about this is we just don't know WHY this is happening.

Is Frank losing the team? Has this been an issue looming in the background for a longer period of time?

Or is it truly just a mixture of HORRIFIC slumps by 3/4 of our team all at the same time?

Go back and look at the Kings game, or the opening night Toronto game. It may not have always been pretty, but guys were engaged and into the games.

They cared!

What has changed?

LoneGranger33
11-14-2012, 10:25 PM
I think that they need to complete all 12 steps.

Tyler Hansbrough completes at least 3 on every post move.

Kuq_e_Zi91
11-14-2012, 10:25 PM
Phil Jackson is still available, right? Reunite him with Shaw? Maybe he'd do it to prove a point...

presto123
11-14-2012, 10:26 PM
We traded away or didn't resign our team chemistry and energy. That's a big part of it. Can't discount team chemistry. Some of you might think the new guys are better on paper but the game is not played on paper. I actually think the bench's energy and toughness rubbed off on the starters last year. Pacers willed their way to a lot of wins.

Ace E.Anderson
11-14-2012, 10:28 PM
The most bizarre thing about this is we just don't know WHY this is happening.

Is Frank losing the team? Has this been an issue looming in the background for a longer period of time?

Or is it truly just a mixture of HORRIFIC slumps by 3/4 of our team all at the same time?

Go back and look at the Kings game, or the opening night Toronto game. It may not have always been pretty, but guys were engaged and into the games.

They cared!

What has changed?

Just like a supremely negative coach can get tuned out, an overly positive coach can be tuned out. I think the players have simply tuned out Vogel's overly optimistic, brash attitude. Sometimes guys need to be whipped into shape nd held accountable for their horrid play.

Pacemaker
11-14-2012, 10:28 PM
Former Pacers seem to always play better or return to form when they leave Indiana. It has to be is the system. It allows no one to shine. Latest example: Darren back to his rookie year form and swagger.
Barbosa had 16 today.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 10:28 PM
I know he's apparently limping around on crutches, but I wish Danny was at least with the team. Talk up West all you want, Danny's the team leader and one of the few guys the lockerroom should/would listen to.

Nuntius
11-14-2012, 10:29 PM
Phil Jackson is still available, right? Reunite him with Shaw? Maybe he'd do it to prove a point...

If only :(

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:29 PM
We traded away or didn't resign our team chemistry and energy. That's a big part of it. Can't discount team chemistry. Some of you might think the new guys are better on paper but the game is not played on paper. I actually think the bench's energy and toughness rubbed off on the starters last year. Pacers willed their way to a lot of wins.

Yeah, I think this is a significant factor. Mahinmi, Green, Agustin...it's not just what they do or don't add. It's that none of them do whatever they do with any fire/focus. That's what you've got to have on your bench under any circumstances. They are either just floating around marginally interested, getting beat ball gawking to cost us a game, or bumbling and bobbling the ball of their leg out of bounds.

BlueNGold
11-14-2012, 10:29 PM
Take a deep breath.

Yes, the team looks terrible at the moment, but things can change quickly. We are not even at the half-way point of November. Frank's earned at least half a season to suck before people start calling for his head. I understand really 'mart people know his coaching is bad...but take a look at his results the last two years. It has been pretty good. Two straight playoff runs. A great record last year. Compare that to sideburns...

Pacemaker
11-14-2012, 10:30 PM
Nothing has changed. They barely and luckily won a few games. They've been struggling since pre-season.

Brinocerous
11-14-2012, 10:33 PM
Problem 1: Our front office is inept

Problem 2: Our coach is inept

Problem 3: Our players are inept

Solution: Pray

I would include ownership with this list as well.
Bird left for a reason, and I don't believe his health had anything to do with it. Bringing Walsh back has got to be one of the most ponderous moves I've ever seen a pro team make. Should we do a search and find the best guy for the job? Nah....bring in ol Bug Eyes so we can relive the Murphleavy glory days.

And to think I could have taken my family on a long trip to Hawaii for what I spent on season tix makes me wanna puke.

Eleazar
11-14-2012, 10:33 PM
Don't bench all the starters. Lance has done nothing wrong. Hill and West do try and show some heart. But bench Roy and PG. Place them in the inactive list. Just show that this is not allowed to continue.

Lance isn't a starter.

As far as Hill and West, more so West, go don't pay so much attention to their offense and ignore the defensive end.

BobbyMac
11-14-2012, 10:36 PM
When things go bad you start to press, the more you press the worse it gets. The team has lost their collective confidence. Not sure how to get out of it! I have had it happen when I played and when I coached. Still don't know what to do! Sometimes it takes a fight on the court, sometimes a serious talk in the locker room. Wish I had a real good answer. One thing for certain the players are much more frustrated and upset than ANY of the fans. BTW I think that Hansbrough plays better when he's given more minutes. Go Pacers!

15th parallel
11-14-2012, 10:37 PM
I don't want to speculate but is this team on the verge of collapsing? It looks like our starters from last year just don't mesh up. PG had a nice start to the season but he's fading up. Roy has just...gone, mentally. I don't know what the heck is running on his head right now. Hill and West are really trying to do what they can, but they obviously need support.

Right now, I won't mind if Vogel will bench Roy for Tyler. And right now, I would like them to try something different to spark some life that's been missing in this team. And I really hope they start Tyler at this point because I think his offense-oriented mindset is what his teammates need to look at (drawing fouls, trying to score from inside, plays physical). It worked some time ago, and may probably work right now given our offensive struggles. And as for Roy, he needs to search his all-star and max-player self soon before the situations worsens further.

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:38 PM
Are we doing anything offensively that is different than last year? Doesn't look like it to me. Wasn't the theory Vogel with a full off-season/training camp would certainly adjust/diversify? Looks worse than ever right now.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 10:38 PM
on the VERGE of collapsing? we're already there man.

3rdStrike
11-14-2012, 10:40 PM
I'm being serious: What are some real solutions to correct what ails this team? Hell, before you answer that, what exactly is it that ails this team? Time to go through the process: Admit we have a problem(s), identify the problem(s), explore possible solutions.

Get rid of the head coach ASAP. Let the Brian Shaw era begin. Failing that, here's my checklist:


1. (As with tonight) Give more of Hibbert's minutes to Hansbrough and Plumlee. It serves the dual purpose of letting Big Money know he is being held accountable & providing energy / fresh legs to the inside game on offense.

2. Have the 2nd unit run up-tempo, Alvin Gentry / Mike D'Antoni style. Augustin, Green, Mahinmi, etc are all lithe and athletic, so DO NOT FORCE THEM INTO A HALFCOURT SYSTEM...square peg for a round hole. Let the starters be "smashmouth" or whatever. Speaking of which, ...

3. Instruct Paul George to take the ball inside. He's taken more shots the last two games, which is very encouraging. The problem is that they haven't been great shots. With that said, I really like that turnaround/fadeaway in the lane that he's shooting. He's missing it almost 100% of the time, but it's a really smart shot for him to be working on and once he gets it down it will be devastating.

4. Instruct Lance Stephenson to take the ball inside. He gets there almost at will, but then he passes (or forces a pass) to someone else.

5. Play Augustin with West a little more often. I can see them developing a nice pick & pop rhythm. Annnnnnnnnnnnd....

6. Play Lance with Green a little more often. Lance will get him the open looks that Hill / Augustin have not.

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:42 PM
Get rid of the head coach ASAP. Let the Brian Shaw era begin. Failing that, here's my checklist:


1. (As with tonight) Give more of Hibbert's minutes to Hansbrough and Plumlee. It serves the dual purpose of letting Big Money know he is being held accountable & providing energy / fresh legs to the inside game on offense.

2. Have the 2nd unit run up-tempo, Alvin Gentry / Mike D'Antoni style. Augustin, Green, Mahinmi, etc are all lithe and athletic, so DO NOT FORCE THEM INTO A HALFCOURT SYSTEM...square peg for a round hole. Let the starters be "smashmouth" or whatever. Speaking of which, ...

3. Instruct Paul George to take the ball inside. He's taken more shots the last two games, which is very encouraging. The problem is that they haven't been great shots. With that said, I really like that turnaround/fadeaway in the lane that he's shooting. He's missing it almost 100% of the time, but it's a really smart shot for him to be working on and once he gets it down it will be devastating.

4. Instruct Lance Stephenson to take the ball inside. He gets there almost at will, but then he passes (or forces a pass) to someone else.

5. Play Augustin with West a little more often. I can see them developing a nice pick & pop rhythm. Annnnnnnnnnnnd....

6. Play Lance with Green a little more often. Lance will get him the open looks that Hill / Augustin have not.

I like your ideas. However, I do not believe uptempo suits Agustin any better. The guys just isn't good. I don't think he's athletic at all. He's lilliputian in stature with no lateral movement whatsoever. I don't think he'd be particularly more effective.

CableKC
11-14-2012, 10:43 PM
10-45.....that's the FG% of the Starters. Wow......just wow. Thanks PG and West for hitting a shooting slump this week......both of you are doing wonders for my Fantasy Team.

15th parallel
11-14-2012, 10:45 PM
Well it's not like we're so down from the beginning. So I think we're not there yet (although I think we're really close).

RLeWorm
11-14-2012, 10:47 PM
i'm gonna say it again...y did we have to suck this year? i would not be surprised if we somehow finally got the #1 pick this year, but it would be the wrong year. Our luck right? Andrew Wiggins to Indiana 2014!

BornReady
11-14-2012, 10:47 PM
During practice, they should put the 1st string against the 3rd string. Based on recent performances, the 3rd string would beat the 1st string and that should be some sort of wake up call.

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 10:50 PM
Let me just put it this way, and I'm not syaing it will happen, but if Roy plays like this for his entire contract. Well, the Pacers in Indianapolis may never recover.

Pacergeek
11-14-2012, 10:51 PM
Let me just put it this way, and I'm not syaing it will happen, but if Roy plays like this for his entire contract. Well, the Pacers in Indianapolis may never recover.

That's a bit much, but I have already conceded that Roy's contract is officially horrible

D-BONE
11-14-2012, 10:52 PM
Albatross comes to mind.

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 10:53 PM
The most bizarre thing about this is we just don't know WHY this is happening.

Is Frank losing the team? Has this been an issue looming in the background for a longer period of time?

Or is it truly just a mixture of HORRIFIC slumps by 3/4 of our team all at the same time?

Go back and look at the Kings game, or the opening night Toronto game. It may not have always been pretty, but guys were engaged and into the games.

They cared!

What has changed?

I've been saying this and I know it's not popular but go back and review Roy's college career. He really made a name for himself his second to last year (or in this case, last season), then he came back for his last year being considered maybe the best true center in college basketball or at least top 2, and he was just not as good (this year), he plummeted out of the top 10 in the draft and was so inconsistent and frankly non chalant that he went from being a guy I really wanted in the draft to being a guy I want no part of. What am I saying? What if Roy is just one of those guys that once he hits a goal, he plateaus and that is that. I don't know, I'm not saying that's true, but it's a little frightening to me how the end of his college career parallels these last two seasons.

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 10:54 PM
That's a bit much, but I have already conceded that Roy's contract is officially horrible

It would be a bit much if the team wasn't already still trying to recover from teh brawl, JO's deal, and the Murphleavy deals.

TMJ31
11-14-2012, 10:56 PM
I've been saying this and I know it's not popular but go back and review Roy's college career. He really made a name for himself his second to last year (or in this case, last season), then he came back for his last year being considered maybe the best true center in college basketball or at least top 2, and he was just not as good (this year), he plummeted out of the top 10 in the draft and was so inconsistent and frankly non chalant that he went from being a guy I really wanted in the draft to being a guy I want no part of. What am I saying? What if Roy is just one of those guys that once he hits a goal, he plateaus and that is that. I don't know, I'm not saying that's true, but it's a little frightening to me how the end of his college career parallels these last two seasons.


That's really bizarre. I certainly won't discount the theory, but it does seem like a bit of a reach if I am being honest.

Roy has never struck me as a complacent sort of individual. But he does have a fairly fragile sense of self-confidence as a basketball player.

For whatever reason, be it his contract or something personal we will never know, that self-confidence is just at rock bottom on the court right now.

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 11:00 PM
That's really bizarre. I certainly won't discount the theory, but it does seem like a bit of a reach if I am being honest.

Roy has never struck me as a complacent sort of individual. But he does have a fairly fragile sense of self-confidence as a basketball player.

For whatever reason, be it his contract or something personal we will never know, that self-confidence is just at rock bottom on the court right now.

I'm certainly not promoting the theory per say, but I felt the parallel deserves pointing out.

rock747
11-14-2012, 11:00 PM
Barbosa had 16 today.

Not the first night..

Aw Heck
11-14-2012, 11:02 PM
Thank goodness this rough Bobcats-Raptors-Bucks schedule is over. Now the Pacers can look forward to the Mavs. Dirk's not playing, so the Pacers should dominate. All teams completely fall apart when they lose their best player, right? No?

rock747
11-14-2012, 11:02 PM
DJ Augustine may be in the D-League next season for real...

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 11:04 PM
Guess we know who was dealing the tough pills in the locker room.

Pacergeek
11-14-2012, 11:04 PM
That's really bizarre. I certainly won't discount the theory, but it does seem like a bit of a reach if I am being honest.

Roy has never struck me as a complacent sort of individual. But he does have a fairly fragile sense of self-confidence as a basketball player.

For whatever reason, be it his contract or something personal we will never know, that self-confidence is just at rock bottom on the court right now.

the fragile, sensitive Roy is an excuse. If it is somehow true, than how could our management spend so much money on an unstable individual? What happened is Roy didn't put in the work in the off-season. He didn't take basketball seriously. Being the highest paid player on our team, he was supposed to be our "de facto" leader. With Danny being out, who is actually a leader, Roy has failed in leading his team

presto123
11-14-2012, 11:06 PM
At least Augustine is a one year deal. Too bad Green and Mahinmi deals are not.

TMJ31
11-14-2012, 11:10 PM
the fragile, sensitive Roy is an excuse. If it is somehow true, than how could our management spend so much money on an unstable individual? What happened is Roy didn't put in the work in the off-season. He didn't take basketball seriously. Being the highest paid player on our team, he was supposed to be our "de facto" leader. With Danny being out, who is actually a leader, Roy has failed in leading his team


I am not making excuses for Roy. I am explaining reasons for his terrible play and poor demeanor.

Some people are able to shake off negativity and bad times more easily than others.

It would appear, at least on the basketball court, that Roy is not one of those people.

I pray that he is able to begin fighting against that label.

Heisenberg
11-14-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't understand why people keep hating on Mahinmi.

Hypnotiq
11-14-2012, 11:12 PM
I don't understand why people keep hating on Mahinmi.

He's terrible he cant catch the ball to save his life sure he has a nice pretty jump shot but give me Lou over Mahinmi all day.

Ace E.Anderson
11-14-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't understand why people keep hating on Mahinmi.

Me either. He's a backup big with good size, rebounding, and mid range j. He has stone hands but he's not hurting us at all. I'd start him, play Plumlee and bench Roy to send a message

TMJ31
11-14-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't understand why people keep hating on Mahinmi.

He has actually played some solid minutes for us so far.

I am happy to have him here.

I do wish he would take care of the ball a bit better, that's my one criticism at this point.

presto123
11-14-2012, 11:13 PM
I don't understand why people keep hating on Mahinmi.

OK. I was a little unfair. Still think Plumlee will pan out to be a better player.

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 11:15 PM
West for Monta makes so much sense, too bad the Bucks won't do it.

clownskull
11-14-2012, 11:16 PM
DJ Augustine may be in the D-League next season for real...

i believe you.
i would say he is a useless player however, that may be too generous. he plays like a negative factor for us.
the bright side of his contract is that he is only 1 year for a change rather than do the donnie long-term deal locking us into an unsavory deal where we are stuck/

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 11:19 PM
I expected us to be 5-4 right now :( I thought I was doing a good job controlling my expectations.

CableKC
11-14-2012, 11:19 PM
He's terrible he cant catch the ball to save his life sure he has a nice pretty jump shot but give me Lou over Mahinmi all day.
Wait.....Lou could catch the ball and score on the offensive end?

Nuntius
11-14-2012, 11:19 PM
As far as Hill and West, more so West, go don't pay so much attention to their offense and ignore the defensive end.

I know that West is extremely suspect at defense. And I also know that Hill is not having the best defensive season of his career. I'm not ignoring the defensive end. But at least they show some fire. Yes, they have their drawbacks but at least they do care.

Pace Maker
11-14-2012, 11:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVxC8SPrAI

I cant tell you how much I miss these guys right now

Trader Joe
11-14-2012, 11:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVxC8SPrAI

I cant tell you how much I miss these guys right now

Are you talking about the number 33 dude? Me too. The guy who actually set a real pick, the guy who was trying to free up Roy, the guy who had West's back almost immediately and was the guy letting Larry Sanders know as he walked off the court.

Seriously the pick is what really sticks out.

Hicks
11-14-2012, 11:37 PM
I know it's generally accepted that Brian Shaw is as good or better of a head coaching candidate than Frank Vogel (most would say better, I think), but even if we fired Frank and made Brian HC, he's a believer in the triangle offense, which is something we partially run already, and it's just not the offensive system this team needs to get out of its funk. If anything, more triangle would probably make it worse.

I wish we could kidnap Rick Adelman from Minnesota.

But in any case, this team needs a commanding coach with an established offense that doesn't require these guys to make many read/react decisions.

Hell, they probably need Rick Carlisle, to be honest.

3rdStrike
11-14-2012, 11:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVxC8SPrAI

I cant tell you how much I miss these guys right now

107 pts with almost 4 minutes left? I don't even know what that feels like anymore. :(

If Shaw tries to run the triangle here that wouldn't be very smart of him. There is no Jordan or Kobe type of player on the roster.

graphic-er
11-14-2012, 11:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QVxC8SPrAI

I cant tell you how much I miss these guys right now

Hell maybe Vogel needs to just break out last years game film for the Mavs game on Friday.

PaceBalls
11-14-2012, 11:59 PM
So how soon before someone gets fired or traded? The expectations were so high for this team, it feels like it might happen sooner than later. Personally, I don't want to Frank go out like this. I'd rather they fire the front office, and look at some trades if they are going to make moves.

Another thing I have been thinking on. Did Larry not want to do the moves that were made this off season and did he not have the control he wanted over the direction they were going? I know people say he wanted to be with his family or his back hurt or whatever. But he seemed like he wanted to stay at the start of the offseason. I remember him implying that they weren't going to blow all the cap space on Hibbert either. I wonder if there was some real conflict there with Larry and Herb, Donnie or Pritchard.

CJ Jones
11-15-2012, 12:03 AM
I don't want to go over everyone (which I could), but I counted nearly half of our 20 turnovers were directly attributed to Roy. Whether it was not looking for the ball on a PnR (Lance TO), running into Hill instead of screening Hill's man :laugh: (Paul TO), or not having the awareness to look for the ball when he's wide open under the rim (West TO), they were the fault of Big Money ( good nickname btw). There were also several plays ruined because Roy simply can't catch the ball. He plays like he drinks acid laced Gatorade then dips his hands in a vat of butter before he enters a game. Somebody get the man some baby powder.

Edit: One other play I want to mention is in the first half Roy hedged on PnR which was easily split by Jennings, and instead of following the play he basically just quit. He stood at the 3 point line sulking while Jennings missed the floater and his man tipped it in. Inexcusable effort from Big Money, the play stuck out because effort is one thing I never questioned from Roy before tonight. :(

rock747
11-15-2012, 12:05 AM
I think the Pacers have actually gotten worse just this season... they have lost complete confidence in themselves...

Eleazar
11-15-2012, 12:07 AM
More so than any other game Roy seemed zoned out tonight.

imawhat
11-15-2012, 12:13 AM
The Bucks announcers said something interesting tonight. I'm paraphrasing, but this is what they said:

"Jim Boylen, Pacers assistant, was walking with us this evening and made a comment about how the Bucks have team chemistry. He said "that was us last year". Did he mean there's a chemistry problem this year?".

CJ Jones
11-15-2012, 12:15 AM
I don't want to sound like I'm picking on Roy because everyone except Tyler, Mahinmi, Lance, and the 3rd stringers disgusted me tonight.

vnzla81
11-15-2012, 12:24 AM
The Bucks announcers said something interesting tonight. I'm paraphrasing, but this is what they said:

"Jim Boylen, Pacers assistant, was walking with us this evening and made a comment about how the Bucks have team chemistry. He said "that was us last year". Did he mean there's a chemistry problem this year?".

Chemistry problems are obvious right now.

CJ Jones
11-15-2012, 12:25 AM
Coach Burke was pissed off during the half time interview and mentioned something about staying together, and last night Shaw mentioned we didn't look like we enjoyed playing together. They're clearly worried about losing the team.

cgg
11-15-2012, 12:40 AM
I miss Danny Granger.

CableKC
11-15-2012, 12:40 AM
The Bucks announcers said something interesting tonight. I'm paraphrasing, but this is what they said:

"Jim Boylen, Pacers assistant, was walking with us this evening and made a comment about how the Bucks have team chemistry. He said "that was us last year". Did he mean there's a chemistry problem this year?".
The Pacers are the 2010-2011 version of the Bucks.....a team with solid defense but with NO offense at all.

3rdStrike
11-15-2012, 12:46 AM
Vogel is quoted as saying "we knew the schedule was going to be tough early."

This guy has really lost it. He might not even be all the way there if he's calling this part of the schedule tough. I'm sorry, but either he's a walking cliche machine or he's lost his mind as well as losing the locker room.

tomkat1971
11-15-2012, 12:50 AM
It took the Pacers most of the season last year to convince the fans they were for real. Now this season they have convinced fans that last year was just an aberration, and they have done it in record time. I hate to give up on them but is it time to stick a fork in them and say they are done?

rock747
11-15-2012, 12:54 AM
Shoulda kept the bench together... jus signed mahimni outright and left it at that.

rock747
11-15-2012, 12:58 AM
Honestly, we probably should have looked at bird stepping down as a more devestating sitation than we did. I think he probably would have kept a more cohesive team together.

CJ Jones
11-15-2012, 01:06 AM
I think it's time to give Lance the ball and let Hill do what he does best off the ball. What do we have to lose?

CableKC
11-15-2012, 01:56 AM
Vogel is quoted as saying "we knew the schedule was going to be tough early."

This guy has really lost it. He might not even be all the way there if he's calling this part of the schedule tough. I'm sorry, but either he's a walking cliche machine or he's lost his mind as well as losing the locker room.
Does Vogel know that we've been playing mostly Lottery Teams?

xtacy
11-15-2012, 02:26 AM
Vogel is quoted as saying "we knew the schedule was going to be tough early."

This guy has really lost it. He might not even be all the way there if he's calling this part of the schedule tough. I'm sorry, but either he's a walking cliche machine or he's lost his mind as well as losing the locker room.

this guy is a bigger idiot than i think he is.

D-BONE
11-15-2012, 05:50 AM
Chemistry problem AND a talent problem AND a leadership problem AND a motivation problem AND an offense problem AND ON AND ON AND ON....

Better fix something soon or this is going to get completely out of hand.

jeffg-body
11-15-2012, 06:25 AM
I am not going to jump off the cliff after nine games so far. Now if we are still in a funk after the first half of the season I will worry about our depth and lack of chemistry. Right now I see us starting from scratch chemistry wise. I think losing Danny is a pretty big blow to the team right now. As much as I like DW and his efforts to be the leader while Danny is out, I think he needs Danny more than anything to share the burden of being the man. When Danny is in the game it keeps other teams from suckking down in the post it kept other teams from double and even triple teaming our bigs especially Roy and David. Hopefully we can stabilize this ship before Danny gets back and have around a .500 record when that happens. I think there is too much pressure on the bench as well with all of the hype locally. The biggest syrprise to me so far is Lance and his development. IMHO I see Lance as much more in control of his game and better technique when he is shooting the ball. We may have not played a lot of the top tier teams right now but we have played a lot on the road. Hopefully our bench guys can find their roles on this team and develop that chemistry that we had as a unit last year. If you look at the games that we lost this year, minus last night and San Antonio, we were in those games and just could not close them out. DW is not a good guy to consistently expect him to close out the games when we have no deep threat shooters on the floor. The other teams just sag down in the post doubling and tripling our bigs making them make bad plays. As much as I like to ramble on in the morning I just think we need to take some time and patience the first half of the season. There are only a handful of teams that could lose their best player and still win consistently and we are not one of them at this point.

Sollozzo
11-15-2012, 06:30 AM
There were a couple of times that Udoh completely owned Hibbert when the Pacers were on offense. He out-muscled him and would simply not let Roy get in position to catch the ball. There's one possession that sticks out in my mind where Roy spent almost 24 seconds trying to just get in front of Udoh but he couldn't. Udoh was owning him physically and was determined to deny him the ball.

DJ Augistin is horrible. I harp on this every game and will continue to do so as long as Augistin is bad and as long as Collison plays well. I fully expect Collison to torch us tomorrow night. That has to be one of the worst Pacer trades in the last 10 or so years. The Walsh/Pritchard combo gets a solid F- for their moves this summer. All offseason we were told that this team had improved their bench, but it's not even a wash right now. This bench isn't as good as last year. Collison might have his flaws, but he is instant offense. We sure could have used some of that last night.

Justin Tyme
11-15-2012, 07:01 AM
did he not have the control he wanted over the direction they were going?


IMO, it was this more than anything else. I believe Bird and Herb didn't see eye to eye on how to build a championship team. Bird got frustrated and walked. Herbie brought in his security blanket, Walsh, feeling Walsh would continue the success Bird had. It's Simon's team, I just hope he's happy with what he got with Walsh at the helm.

Someone might want to point out to Herb that Charlotte has a winning record and have won their last 3 games while the Pacers are "6" games under .500 with a team that would be hard pressed to win games in the D-League. I guess Herb can be happy the Pacers have won 2 more games than Detroit, with the Pistons winning their 1st game of the season last night, under the guidance of Walsh.

Sollozzo
11-15-2012, 07:08 AM
IMO, it was this more than anything else. I believe Bird and Herb didn't see eye to eye on how to build a championship team. Bird got frustrated and walked. Herbie brought in his security blanket, Walsh, feeling Walsh would continue the success Bird had. It's Simon's team, I just hope he's happy with what he got with Walsh at the helm.

Someone might want to point out to Herb that Charlotte has a winning record and have won their last 3 games while the Pacers are "6" games under .500 with a team that would be hard pressed to win games in the D-League. I guess Herb can be happy the Pacers have won 2 more games than Detroit, with the Pistons winning their 1st game of the season last night, under the guidance of Walsh.


I will go to my grave thinking that Bird and Simon had a disagreement about the future of the team. You don't go from saying "I'd do it today (sign on for another year) if Herbie was here" to completely leaving in June unless something big happens. Sure it's possible that his health flared up, but you'd think we would have heard something by now. When Bird said in May that he wanted to come back, he would have had an entire year to evaluate his health and would have known what the next season would entail physically. He clearly thought in May that he was physically up to it. This season got off to a bad start with the Bird departure in the summer.

Unclebuck
11-15-2012, 09:25 AM
The part about the schedule being tough early is that the Pacers have played a lot of road games. They have also played more games than most teams. In fact no team has played more games. Pacers are 1 of 6 other teams that have played 9 games

That is why Frank said the schedule has been tough. You might disagree, but there is some logic to what Frank said. At least his statement shouldn't lead anyone to suggest he is an idiot and or anything like that

Justin Tyme
11-15-2012, 10:57 AM
Thanks for the clarification. I was ready to hollar BS when thinking only in terms of the competition being played. I can see where his statement has some validity now.

PacersHomer
11-16-2012, 02:11 AM
The part about the schedule being tough early is that the Pacers have played a lot of road games. They have also played more games than most teams. In fact no team has played more games. Pacers are 1 of 6 other teams that have played 9 games

That is why Frank said the schedule has been tough. You might disagree, but there is some logic to what Frank said. At least his statement shouldn't lead anyone to suggest he is an idiot and or anything like that

That comment doesn't make me believe he's an idiot but the plays he draws up has be convinced he is.

Heisenberg
11-16-2012, 02:39 AM
I don't think what Frank said is in any way BS. It's true. But it's passing the buck. Stop making excuses, especially weak *** ones, the team being bad is on the team, that includes everyone employed by the organization.

Last year's nutty scheduling was never a problem since they won. But now it is?

Kstat
11-16-2012, 08:09 AM
I would kill for the schedule the pacers have had thus far. Maybe I lack perspective and it's tougher than it looks but it sure as **** isn't close to what we've had to deal with our first 9 games.

naptownmenace
11-16-2012, 04:46 PM
It took the Pacers most of the season last year to convince the fans they were for real. Now this season they have convinced fans that last year was just an aberration, and they have done it in record time. I hate to give up on them but is it time to stick a fork in them and say they are done?

NO! Of course we don't give up!

Besides, you have to stick around just in the event that they turn this ship around and start stringing some wins together. That way you can say, "I knew they'd get it together eventually," and point at laugh at all the quitters that gave up on the team too early. ;)

tomkat1971
11-17-2012, 12:03 AM
I was just asking for opinions on what the board thought. All I meant was that from what Ive seen so far its not going to happen. I would be one happy camper if they proved me wrong.