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boombaby1987
11-10-2012, 10:11 PM
We're undefeated at home!:-p

Magic P
11-10-2012, 10:13 PM
Guess PG read my post about him he was more aggressive this game.

eric1516
11-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Lance in starting line-up. Hansbrough is a beast. West is tired (who can blame him). Hibbert is definitely in a funk.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Yay!

Bench was great tonight. Other than Han's missed FTs, everyone was really good.

Lance showing/proving he can start. PG showed up tonight.

Only bad is that Hibbs continues to struggle and West had an off night.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Coach needs to get PG to go inside more instead of settling for jumpers. He's a great FT shooter, so let's get to the line more!

LG33
11-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Guess PG read my post about him he was more aggressive this game.

His only free throws attempted were the last two of the game. Not too aggressive now.

Trophy
11-10-2012, 10:16 PM
We needed this win which will hopefully build up much needed momentum and positive energy moving forward.

:gopacers:

boombaby1987
11-10-2012, 10:16 PM
12,000 announced attendance. Just pathetic.

aamcguy
11-10-2012, 10:17 PM
I will take a win when our starting bigs shoot 7/31 and Hansbrough goes 4/12 from the free throw line. That means we missed a ton of shots that should've been basically automatic and we still won. Our offense had fluidity tonight. Even though it was against the Wizards...that 5 game win streak against patsy teams last year keyed our stretch run.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:18 PM
12,000 announced attendance. Just pathetic.

Dang, and it's the weekend. I think the Hawks get more people to show up. Hahaha

eric1516
11-10-2012, 10:20 PM
12,000 announced attendance. Just pathetic.

Yes, it is definitely pathetic. I think part of it has to do with who we were playing though. Fans always turn out more for the more big name teams.

kent beckley
11-10-2012, 10:20 PM
12,000 announced attendance. Just pathetic.



Notre Dame is undefeated and on TV. Probably getting more attention than a November NBA game.

AesopRockOn
11-10-2012, 10:20 PM
Lance looks a lot more in control and ready to contribute. Roy looks like he needs to hire Psy-chiatrist (kind of stealing this from Heisenberg). Our new guys really look like new guys. David West is a full-on one way player. George Hill looks solid. Tyler is in positive mode right now.

And PG would go into the lane and try to draw fouls but there's this shake attached to the goalstand and he's on a diet. Or there's (literally) a force field or whatever. He's not taking free throws unless we have to.

Still better to win than to not, especially considering yesterday. I do think that if Randy Wittman were the coach here, he would have been fired already.

Magic P
11-10-2012, 10:21 PM
His only free throws attempted were the last two of the game. Not too aggressive now.

He was more aggressive in getting his shot off off the dribble. That's what I meant by aggressive, he usually sits in the corner jacking up threes.

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 10:21 PM
couple of nice coaching moves by frank.

Start Lance and make the early substitution of tyler for David. Then play David with the bench.

hoosierguy
11-10-2012, 10:24 PM
Hopefully this game calms down the hair on fire crowd.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 10:27 PM
Hopefully this game calms down the hair on fire crowd.
Yeah right. 2 point win against Washington at home!? WTF ARGH ARGH ARGH RAGE

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:27 PM
Lance is our best 3pt shooter so far this year. Who would have thought that?

2minutes twoa
11-10-2012, 10:28 PM
Love Lance starting! He's a good fit for the starters and shows Vogel isn't afraid to shake up the lineup if needed. Nice win, now build off it!

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 10:28 PM
Lance is our best 3pt shooter so far this year. Who would have thought that?

No one. Well, Lance and his dad maybe.

Sherlock
11-10-2012, 10:28 PM
AJ Price 12 Ast, 12 Pts
G Hill 5 Ast, 8 Pts

Now every PG played for Pacers comes back to haunting us?

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:30 PM
AJ Price 12 Ast, 12 Pts
G Hill 5 Ast, 8 Pts

Now every PG played for Pacers comes back to haunting us?

point guards seem to go off on us this season. Gotta figure out how to defend those screens better.

Sookie
11-10-2012, 10:32 PM
point guards seem to go off on us this season. Gotta figure out how to defend those screens better.

It's the PnR. And the Pacers (with Roy and West) are pretty much physically incapable of guarding them. (I haven't watched Ian that much, so maybe he's better? Surely he can't be worse.) We don't even have a Lou type to help with that.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:33 PM
MKG is a stud.

hoosierguy
11-10-2012, 10:34 PM
Yeah right. 2 point win against Washington at home!? WTF ARGH ARGH ARGH RAGE

This was the second night of a back to back without our best player. The Pacers have been in every game this season except one. The rumors of the Pacers' demise are unfounded.

Nuntius
11-10-2012, 10:34 PM
Coach needs to get PG to go inside more instead of settling for jumpers. He's a great FT shooter, so let's get to the line more!

Both PG and Green should go inside and post up more.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:35 PM
Both PG and Green should go inside and post up more.

So should Lance.

PG needs to be more aggressive and try to get to the line more.

AesopRockOn
11-10-2012, 10:38 PM
AJ should be commended for a very good game. Okafor handled Hibbert. Beal looked good. Very confident. I missed Javale McGee's antics though.

Trevor Ariza is like a weird spectre that floats around from bad team to bad team, semi-transparent, reminding us of what once was, but can never be again.

3rdStrike
11-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Hopefully this game calms down the hair on fire crowd.

Yeah, we're headed to the NBA Finals after this one! The rest of the NBA really has to respect the team after tonight's dominating performance against the class of the league. The Heat must be shaking from fear...

Glad for a win, but if you want a "calm down, it's gonna be alright" game, this is not even close to that. This is a win where a lot went wrong, but we just happened to be playing the worst team in the entire NBA (which is good, because we lost to the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA), so we barely survived.

As a Lance believer from day 1, I am enjoying how quickly people went from "cut him, he sucks because I don't like him," to "start him please!" He and PG need to get to the charity stripe, though.

Nuntius
11-10-2012, 10:39 PM
So should Lance.

PG needs to be more aggressive and try to get to the line more.

Yeah, I agree. Lance should definitely post up since he is a train.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 10:39 PM
the 97/98 team started 2-5. they finished 58-24 and made the Conference Finals.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:41 PM
Yeah, we're headed to the NBA Finals after this one! The rest of the NBA really has to respect the team after tonight's dominating performance against the class of the league. The Heat must be shaking from fear...

Glad for a win, but if you want a "calm down, it's gonna be alright" game, this is not even close to that. This is a win where a lot went wrong, but we just happened to be playing the worst team in the entire NBA (which is good, because we lost to the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA), so we barely survived.

As a Lance believer from day 1, I am enjoying how quickly people went from "cut him, he sucks because I don't like him," to "start him please!" He and PG need to get to the charity stripe, though.


I agree. It's great that the Pacers won, but that should happen anyway. The fact that the Pacers allowed the Wiz to stay in the game from the beginning just shows how poorly they are playing. The effort was so much better tonight, but still have a ways to go. The last couple of games have been baby steps in the right direction.

hoosierguy
11-10-2012, 10:41 PM
Yeah, we're headed to the NBA Finals after this one! The rest of the NBA really has to respect the team after tonight's dominating performance against the class of the league. The Heat must be shaking from fear...

Glad for a win, but if you want a "calm down, it's gonna be alright" game, this is not even close to that. This is a win where a lot went wrong, but we just happened to be playing the worst team in the entire NBA (which is good, because we lost to the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA), so we barely survived.

As a Lance believer from day 1, I am enjoying how quickly people went from "cut him, he sucks because I don't like him," to "start him please!" He and PG need to get to the charity stripe, though.

So you are upset that the Pacers won a close game? Three of their four losses were by three points or less. This team is not as bad as people are portraying it to be.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:42 PM
the 97/98 team started 2-5. they finished 58-24 and made the Conference Finals.

Just have to continue to get better with each game. Hopefully the guys are starting to get more comfortable playing with each other and their roles.

Hibbs continues to struggle, but those shots inside will start to fall. West just had an off day, but he's been one of our best players so far.

3rdStrike
11-10-2012, 10:42 PM
And I hope people appreciate that Gerald Green is not mentally soft, unlike Big Money. He was the goat last game, but he came out and played well and made sure he contributed more than just shooting. He may not be the best defender and he certainly effed up last night, but he tries all the time. And that's all I ask of PG (won't ask it of Hibbert...I'm just glad he remembered how to rebound).

Nuntius
11-10-2012, 10:43 PM
West, Hill and Hibbert combined for 10-40 and Tyler shot 33% from the FT line and we still won. A lot of things went wrong but you have to be happy for the win even if it is against the winless (as of yet) Wizards missing their two best players.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 10:45 PM
So you are upset that the Pacers won a close game? Three of their four losses were by three points or less. This team is not as bad as people are portraying it to be.

Seriously? Pacers are playing terrible. They are taking baby steps in the right direction though.

Dude, the Pacers lost to the Wolves who are missing 4 of their best players. 4! Pacers are only missing Granger.

Wizards are freaking terrible and the Pacers allowed them to stay in it. A good team would have beaten the Pacers tonight. Blown out by the Spurs, a playoff team just shows how bad the Pacers are.

I'm still encouraged by the Pacers play today! Last two games have been their best so far this year. Still not enough to beat good teams though.

3rdStrike
11-10-2012, 10:49 PM
So you are upset that the Pacers won a close game? Three of their four losses were by three points or less. This team is not as bad as people are portraying it to be.

Nope, I never said I was upset. In fact I said I was "glad for a win." I'm just being realistic about things, as opposed to covering my eyes and telling myself that things are great right now. There are good things (which I pointed out...Lance, Gerald Green), and there are bad things (Hibbert, the coaching). There are things I expect to get better (the new players, Lance), things I'm growing anxious about (PG's will to score) and things I don't feel I have reason to believe will get much better (Hibbert's offense, Vogel's coaching). The last two are pretty crippling, considering how invested the franchise is in those two individuals.

So I'm not trying to be a downer, but I think it's pretty silly to think this was a statement win or something. I said at the start that this (Wiz) is the worst team I can remember since the Brawl year. And we won tonight against such a team...by 4 points.

A win is a win, but in this case not an inspirational one.

Oh, one more plus. The turnovers have been down the last few games. We're still not getting assists, though (that's more of a play calling issue).

hoosierguy
11-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Seriously? Pacers are playing terrible. They are taking baby steps in the right direction though.

Dude, the Pacers lost to the Wolves who are missing 4 of their best players. 4! Pacers are only missing Granger.

Wizards are freaking terrible and the Pacers allowed them to stay in it. A good team would have beaten the Pacers tonight. Blown out by the Spurs, a playoff team just shows how bad the Pacers are.

I'm still encouraged by the Pacers play today! Last two games have been their best so far this year. Still not enough to beat good teams though.

The Timberwolves are 4-1, so they are a good team even without some of their players it would appear. The previous game against the Hawks was a disappointment but Atlanta is also a playoff team and the Pacers played quite well for large stretches. This is the reality. You can whine and be negative but it only makes you look pathetic.

AesopRockOn
11-10-2012, 11:00 PM
http://youtu.be/FtR3vn9u6wU?hd=1&t=15s

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 11:04 PM
The Timberwolves are 4-1, so they are a good team even without some of their players it would appear. The previous game against the Hawks was a disappointment but Atlanta is also a playoff team and the Pacers played quite well for large stretches. This is the reality. You can whine and be negative but it only makes you look pathetic.

Too funny. Whine and look pathetic. Might want to take a look in the mirror.

I'm pointing out that the Pacers are NOT playing well, but they are headed in the right direction. What about that don't you understand. The Wolves have a hollow 4-1 record. The only notable win they have is against the Nets. And the Bulls are up by 5 right now and should win. And I'm not sure how that's being whinny. I'm not going, "waaah, my pacers sucks, boo hoo." That's whiny.

hoosierguy
11-10-2012, 11:09 PM
Too funny. Whine and look pathetic. Might want to take a look in the mirror.

I'm pointing out that the Pacers are NOT playing well, but they are headed in the right direction. What about that don't you understand. The Wolves have a hollow 4-1 record. The only notable win they have is against the Nets. And the Bulls are up by 5 right now and should win. And I'm not sure how that's being whinny. I'm not going, "waaah, my pacers sucks, boo hoo." That's whiny.

The Pacers had stretches last season where they did not play well. It happens. If they beat the Raptors then they are back to .500. If this team is still struggling in a month I will join the chorus of doom and gloom.

MvPlumlee
11-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Glad for a win, but if you want a "calm down, it's gonna be alright" game, this is not even close to that. This is a win where a lot went wrong, but we just happened to be playing the worst team in the entire NBA (which is good, because we lost to the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA), so we barely survived.

Don't know about second worst team. The Bobcats just beaten the Mavericks for the first time in franchise history and even though his numbers have gone up, DC stills looks pretty much the same to me. Solid, but not much impact.

I didn't see the rest of the game, but why the hell was Murphy playing in overtime? :confused: Don't listen to him, Rick!

rock747
11-10-2012, 11:30 PM
Pacers PR department sure showed that scoreboard a lot during the broadcast.... glad they got a win... a loss tonight would have been catastrophic...

rock747
11-10-2012, 11:31 PM
I think the horrible play as of late probably had a lot to do with attendance... had a lot of people second guessing whether spending the money for a ticket was worth it.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 11:40 PM
A win is a win but barely beating one of the worst teams in the NBA without their two best players is not going to do it, if Tyler doesn't go into "Tyler mode" they lose this game.

Only positives are Paul George, Lance and Tyler, by the way how come the wizards don't play stupid basketball anymore? weird....

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 11:50 PM
LOL, just realized that Frank shortened the rotation to 9 guys. He's using a 3 wing rotation. Actually he's using 4 1/2 guys to play the 3 little slots. If DJ played any less, he's never take off his warmups. I hope Hill is getting lots of sleep, because he's evidently gonna play plenty of minutes.

MvPlumlee
11-10-2012, 11:56 PM
LOL, just realized that Frank shortened the rotation to 9 guys.
At last. I'm already counting days till next year, when he will finally bring in Mahinmi first for West to play with Roy.

Goyle
11-11-2012, 12:06 AM
You know things are going bad when I'm thinking to myself "Hey, we're playing pretty well out there!" while we're down to the Wizards. I do think we looked a lot better, Gerald and Ian looked more like they did in preseason.

xIndyFan
11-11-2012, 12:20 AM
At last. I'm already counting days till next year, when he will finally bring in Mahinmi first for West to play with Roy.

At the start of the season, I expected something like that. But the more I watch them play, the less interesting that sounds. Tyler is doing a really nice job. and Ian is not. I haven't figured out what is is the makes Ian's play suck so much, but he just doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything positive when he plays. He looks like he should, he has size and good quickness, but somehow . . . nothing happens except random fouls.

On a personal note, I want to see more of a Tyler, Ian, Lance and Gerald pairing. Not because they play good basketball, but rather they are fun to watch on defense. They are all frenetic, herky-jerky athletes. Watching them playing at the same time has a certain comedic value all its own. Too bad AJ isn't still a Pacer, he would make the group complete.

xIndyFan
11-11-2012, 12:23 AM
You know things are going bad when I'm thinking to myself "Hey, we're playing pretty well out there!" while we're down to the Wizards. I do think we looked a lot better, Gerald and Ian looked more like they did in preseason.

The game was misleading that way, it seemed to me. It looked like the Pacers were playing pretty well, but missing shots and the Wiz were making shots. Bank shots, 3 pointers from half court and end of the 24 second clock shots. If the B&G had made a couple of shots, the game would be a blowout.

LG33
11-11-2012, 12:25 AM
I missed Javale McGee's antics though.

No JaVale McGee, no Nick Young, no Andray Blatche, no fun.

Anthem
11-11-2012, 12:43 AM
I saw Hicks on Twitter, talking about Lance's full-court pass. Anybody got video of it?

Anthem
11-11-2012, 12:44 AM
Yeah, I agree. Lance should definitely post up since he is a train.
Not this year. He's not been working on that at all, it's been shooting and decision-making.

In a couple years, though, I expect to see it.

Sparhawk
11-11-2012, 12:49 AM
The Pacers had stretches last season where they did not play well. It happens. If they beat the Raptors then they are back to .500. If this team is still struggling in a month I will join the chorus of doom and gloom.

I still don't see where you get the doom and gloom from. Because people vent their frustrations? Don't see why you let it bother you that much. No doom and gloom on my side, but if the Pacers are playing bad, I think it's fair for anyone to call them out on it. This is a team that is supposed to be the 2nd best team in the East and when they aren't playing up to their potential, it is frustrating. Especially when the Heat are that much better now with Ray Allen. Pacers have to play 100 times better than they are if they want to have a shot with the Heat. I think it might be impossible, but the Pacers would get embarrassed if they played the Heat right now. I want them to get to a point where they'll play the best teams competitively. Hopefully these early season struggle will get the team to really focus.

Hicks
11-11-2012, 12:50 AM
I saw Hicks on Twitter, talking about Lance's full-court pass. Anybody got video of it?

Uh, I did? What's the handle?

Sparhawk
11-11-2012, 12:57 AM
I saw Hicks on Twitter, talking about Lance's full-court pass. Anybody got video of it?

I want to see that too.

skyfire
11-11-2012, 01:01 AM
Roy needs to try and dunk when he gets close to the rim. Some of the stuff he puts up in there is so soft. He also is catching the ball way too far out. If he can't get deep post position we shouldn't throw him the ball. Or if he gets pushed out, pass the ball out and repost. The guy throwing the entry pass cutting past him every single time is so predictable and almost never gives us a good look.

West had one of those games when nothing was going down, it happens.

Tyler is giving us some good energy and isn't trying to do things he can't do nearly as much.

imbtyler
11-11-2012, 01:54 AM
Lance is our best 3pt shooter so far this year. Who would have thought that?

This guy ... vvvv

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_296w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/early-lead/Images/Pacers_Bird_Basketball_03286.jpg?uuid=LC8UwL-HEeGL_Nsfh269yw

ECKrueger
11-11-2012, 02:42 AM
Wow, Tyler's steal + jam was sick.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/pacers/2012/11/10/0021200081-was-ind-recap.nba

diamonddave00
11-11-2012, 03:32 AM
Gerald Green 15 points and 8 rebounds finally looked comfortable.

PaceBalls
11-11-2012, 04:03 AM
the 97/98 team started 2-5. they finished 58-24 and made the Conference Finals.

I watched that 97/98 team. I knew that 97/98 team. The 97/98 team was a friend of mine. Heisenberg, this team is no 97/98 team.

Sandman21
11-11-2012, 04:47 AM
Gerald Green 15 points and 8 rebounds finally looked comfortable.

I saw this as well during the game, he plays better offensively when he's attacking and not shooting large amount of 3s.

MvPlumlee
11-11-2012, 05:30 AM
At the start of the season, I expected something like that. But the more I watch them play, the less interesting that sounds. Tyler is doing a really nice job. and Ian is not. I haven't figured out what is is the makes Ian's play suck so much, but he just doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything positive when he plays. He looks like he should, he has size and good quickness, but somehow . . . nothing happens except random fouls.

Ok, not first big off the bench, but at least let Ian and Roy play together for some minutes to let them get used to eachother. What is Frank going to do when West or Hans are injured or are in foul trouble? Yeah, I know: give his minutes to Pendergraph...

Last night was a good opportunity to try a Hibbert-Mahinmi froncourt. West looked tired and had a cold hand and with Mahinmi and Hibbert me might have gotten some defensive stops.

xtacy
11-11-2012, 06:36 AM
Yeah, we're headed to the NBA Finals after this one! The rest of the NBA really has to respect the team after tonight's dominating performance against the class of the league. The Heat must be shaking from fear...

Glad for a win, but if you want a "calm down, it's gonna be alright" game, this is not even close to that. This is a win where a lot went wrong, but we just happened to be playing the worst team in the entire NBA (which is good, because we lost to the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA), so we barely survived.

sad but so true.

owl
11-11-2012, 08:39 AM
AJ Price 12 Ast, 12 Pts
G Hill 5 Ast, 8 Pts

Now every PG played for Pacers comes back to haunting us?

The Wizards were hitting alot of tough shots and the Pacers missed a lot of open shots so the stats are deceiving.

D-BONE
11-11-2012, 08:54 AM
Glad to see Green finally have a good game. Hope that's the start of something.

Still not sure what the ultimate impact will be, because for every good shooting night and/or night where he goes uncovered for a good dunk or two, there's the questionable defense, handles, decision making. In other words, he can have decent stats, but in crucial situations, he's a turnover or mistake waiting to happen. But, hoping for some incremental progress in the Bball intangibles stuff.

Glad for a win. Liked Tyler's intensity and PG's shooting. Overall, though, not a confidence - inspiring performance. But, it was progress of sorts. So that's better than the previous several.

McKeyFan
11-11-2012, 09:12 AM
Glad to see Green finally have a good game. Hope that's the start of something.

Still not sure what the ultimate impact will be, because for every good shooting night and/or night where he goes uncovered for a good dunk or two, there's the questionable defense, handles, decision making. In other words, he can have decent stats, but in crucial situations, he's a turnover or mistake waiting to happen. But, hoping for some incremental progress in the Bball intangibles stuff.

I agree with all this.

I was worried Vogel would make the same mistake and keep Green in at the end of the game. He just is too unreliable for that. Vogel left him in a little longer than usual because he was playing so well, so I can understand that. But he finally brought Lance back with 3 minutes left, and the ball was in safe hands and nobody was looking at cheerleaders on key defensive plays.

Anthem
11-11-2012, 12:47 PM
Uh, I did? What's the handle?
My bad X2. First, it wasn't an original tweet of yours, it was a retweet from Peck.

Second, it wasn't full-court. Got it mixed up with a different one.


Only lance has the court vision to make that pass he just made to west. #bornready

repole
11-11-2012, 01:33 PM
Green's typically a fine on ball defender (especially on smaller guys). Off ball he's going to have his issues, mainly because he gets caught watching the ball far too often. I'd be the first person to tell you that he shouldn't be in for the last defensive possession.

Offensively he'll be fine as long as he isn't expected to create too much off the dribble. Run him off screens, post him up (would really like to see a few post ups called for him every game...), and spot him up from three and you'll end up with some efficient scoring once his jumpshot gets going again. Ask him to do too much and you're going to get a couple dumb turnovers.

BlueCollarColts
11-11-2012, 01:37 PM
I couldn't watch the game, how did everyone play? who looked good and who looked bad, was D.J. Augustin bad again?

Derek2k3
11-11-2012, 02:24 PM
I couldn't watch the game, how did everyone play? who looked good and who looked bad, was D.J. Augustin bad again?

Good: Lance, Paul, Tyler, Gerald, Ian (Defining good as "helped the team" as opposed to detracting.
Bad: Roy, Augustin, David
Neutral: George Hill

DJ looked bad again. Hit a nice 3, missed another wide open one. Isn't moving the ball particularly well.

Tyler was aggressive, provided a much needed spark and forced the issue, racking up 11ish FTA's. Which, coincidentally, is 2 fewer than Roy has attempted ALL SEASON.

David couldn't buy a bucket. Got decent looks, just couldn't get them to drop.

George Hill was ok, wasn't looking to score early but ran the offense well. Did have a really sweet run of 6/7 straight points. Wasn't anything special, but certainly didn't hurt the team.

Gerald was a nice surprise, starting to look more comfortable on the offensive end. Really shoots a nice jumper coming off screens. Hit a clutch bucket late in the game.

DrFife
11-11-2012, 02:39 PM
... and nobody was looking at cheerleaders on key defensive plays.

:laugh: It'd be hilarious if one of the cameras could ever catch that.

LG33
11-11-2012, 03:23 PM
Two of the Pacers' recent second-round picks, A.J. Price and Lance Stephenson, started in this game (due to injuries to starters). I don't know what to make of that. Good drafting by the front office, I guess?

imbtyler
11-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Offensively he'll be fine as long as he isn't expected to create too much off the dribble. Run him off screens, post him up (would really like to see a few post ups called for him every game...), and spot him up from three and you'll end up with some efficient scoring once his jumpshot gets going again. Ask him to do too much and you're going to get a couple dumb turnovers.

I would love to see Green post up a few times. He works well in the post, because his handles are tuned for it. He can get into the paint, jump straight up, and (as long as he keeps the ball in his hands) dunk it straight down over everyone. It would be interesting to run some post plays for him, as well as Paul. Paul seems to have that post-up fade-away jumper perfected. I saw him hit, like, a dozen in a row during warmups. If he gets comfortable like that in a game, he could go Kobe on somebody. Either one of them could.

It would be nicer if Green and Paul had some of the same plays ran for them, involving off-ball double screens, and a decent backdoor cut. The Wizards were running double screens for Beal to get Lance off his back (which is saying a lot). Paul and Green don't do well with Granger's plays ran for them, because the plays are better for Granger's style of dribble-driving from the perimeter. Paul and Green can do that, but not as patented, and would be better going off screens, making backdoor cuts, and posting up. I'm not saying they can't perform at the perimeter like Granger; just that Granger's offensive skills revolve around that style, and Paul's/Green's offensive skills don't.

docpaul
11-12-2012, 12:49 AM
Two of the Pacers' recent second-round picks, A.J. Price and Lance Stephenson, started in this game (due to injuries to starters). I don't know what to make of that. Good drafting by the front office, I guess?

We're currently paying Stephenson under 1 million/year, and we have an option on him next year at that amount. I would definitely call that good drafting. He certainly hasn't hurt us in any way. :)

docpaul
11-12-2012, 01:14 AM
Looks like Boylen laid into Paul George after the TWolves game, and Paul took it to heart. Certainly looked like a different player after this game from my eyes at least.

I still think he's got what it takes to be truly special, with the right coaching and support. With some more upper body strength, he can move into Granger's role IMO.

The bigger happy circumstance is that Stephenson is leveraging his opportunity to make his case to be a contributing guard alongside Hill. My favorite time spectating all season has been when Stephenson/Hill are on the floor.

focused444
11-12-2012, 02:22 AM
Looks like Boylen laid into Paul George after the TWolves game

I missed this. What happened exactly?

Peck
11-12-2012, 02:46 AM
Looks like Boylen laid into Paul George after the TWolves game, and Paul took it to heart. Certainly looked like a different player after this game from my eyes at least.

I still think he's got what it takes to be truly special, with the right coaching and support. With some more upper body strength, he can move into Granger's role IMO.The bigger happy circumstance is that Stephenson is leveraging his opportunity to make his case to be a contributing guard alongside Hill. My favorite time spectating all season has been when Stephenson/Hill are on the floor.

Maybe someday.

But if this season has taught us nothing else it is that Danny Granger is very hard to replace and no Paul George can't do it. I'll be polite & say yet, but in my mind I don't think he can do what Danny can do. He can do other things Danny could never do but Danny has the mindset of a killer & Paul just doesn't. There is nothing wrong with that btw, I think they compliment each other very well.

rexnom
11-12-2012, 03:47 AM
By the way, Tyler was great as well. If he hadn't missed those free throws, it would have been another solid A game from him.

wintermute
11-12-2012, 04:34 AM
I missed this. What happened exactly?

There was a report on Cornrows. Not sure it's the same one doc is referring to:

http://www.indycornrows.com/2012/11/11/3629512/paul-george-changes-things-up-to-help-carry-offensive-load-for-pacers



George also looked different with the ball in his hands -- more confident and appearing to have a plan with the ball in his hands. After making his first shot, PG knocked down smooth a one-dribble pull-up that reeked of confidence. Something that has been absent in George's offensive game for much of the early season.

"I prepared a little differently for tonight," George said. "And it work. I came in here a little earlier, got a lift in and gotta lot of shots up. I sat down with the coaches and kind of talked a little bit and I was just out there being aggressive."

The frustrations of the early season losses and lack of consistent play pushed George to change things up. He's been anything but efficient with the ball in his hands, instead turning it over too much and missing forced shots.

"I've been frustrated all season long," George said. "Shots aren't going down, I'm getting good looks but just couldn't knock the shots down so I had to switch something up and it worked, I guess."

George hashed things out with assistant coach Jim Boylen who stressed being more efficient with his play at both ends of the court. PG took the straight talk as constructive criticism as an opportunity to learn and get better.

There's two ways you can interpret it," George said. "And I took is as, while I'm out there I've cot to make the most of what coach is giving me."

15th parallel
11-12-2012, 04:35 AM
By the way, Tyler was great as well. If he hadn't missed those free throws, it would have been another solid A game from him.

This has been a great start for Tyler. Hopefully it'll be the "kick" he needed to get back to the offensive groove.

Eleazar
11-12-2012, 09:24 AM
Maybe someday.

But if this season has taught us nothing else it is that Danny Granger is very hard to replace and no Paul George can't do it. I'll be polite & say yet, but in my mind I don't think he can do what Danny can do. He can do other things Danny could never do but Danny has the mindset of a killer & Paul just doesn't. There is nothing wrong with that btw, I think they compliment each other very well.

Paul has it in him, he just hasn't fully embraced it yet.

Ace E.Anderson
11-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Paul has it in him, he just hasn't fully embraced it yet.

What makes you so sure? Not tryna be an a$$ and am asking your honest opinion. But aside from his words, we haven't seen many hints from him that he has "IT" in him. Being an all around talent like Iggy, is diff than being a number one scoring option on a good team. I feel PG has shown an acceptance/willingness to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

I love what PG brings to the table, but I'm curious why some think he can turn into a 20ppg type of scorer.

Eleazar
11-12-2012, 11:43 AM
What makes you so sure? Not tryna be an a$$ and am asking your honest opinion. But aside from his words, we haven't seen many hints from him that he has "IT" in him. Being an all around talent like Iggy, is diff than being a number one scoring option on a good team. I feel PG has shown an acceptance/willingness to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

I love what PG brings to the table, but I'm curious why some think he can turn into a 20ppg type of scorer.

As far as the 20ppg scorer part, it is because he is very smooth on offense and athletic. He has all the tools necessary to average 20+ppg. Now I view him more like Reggie where he is more of an 18ppg type of player.

Onto the original question.
George isn't like Granger or West. Where Granger and West have fire, George has ice. Players like George tend to be not as obvious with their emotions. Add to it George wants to be a team player. He has some inner conflict going on, but to me what is very telling is by how comfortable he looks. The times he has looked the most comfortable is when the whole offense has revolved around him. So the beginning of the Toronto game, and when he is given the ball at the end of a quarter to get his own shot. So far he has been deadly at the end of a quarter.


p.s. I re-wrote that a million times, so I hope it got across what I was trying to say.

McKeyFan
11-12-2012, 11:48 AM
As far as the 20ppg scorer part, it is because he is very smooth on offense and athletic. He has all the tools necessary to average 20+ppg. Now I view him more like Reggie where he is more of an 18ppg type of player.

Onto the original question.
George isn't like Granger or West. Where Granger and West have fire, George has ice. Players like George tend to be not as obvious with their emotions. Add to it George wants to be a team player. He has some inner conflict going on, but to me what is very telling is by how comfortable he looks. The times he has looked the most comfortable is when the whole offense has revolved around him. So the beginning of the Toronto game, and when he is given the ball at the end of a quarter to get his own shot. So far he has been deadly at the end of a quarter.


p.s. I re-wrote that a million times, so I hope it got across what I was trying to say.
I respect both viewpoints. Neither of us knows what will happen.

It WOULD be interesting to bring up a few more examples of clutch players and what they looked like their first two or three years. And was Reggie really similar to PG or was his future much more obvious in the prologue?

Ace E.Anderson
11-12-2012, 12:17 PM
As far as the 20ppg scorer part, it is because he is very smooth on offense and athletic. He has all the tools necessary to average 20+ppg. Now I view him more like Reggie where he is more of an 18ppg type of player.

Onto the original question.
George isn't like Granger or West. Where Granger and West have fire, George has ice. Players like George tend to be not as obvious with their emotions. Add to it George wants to be a team player. He has some inner conflict going on, but to me what is very telling is by how comfortable he looks. The times he has looked the most comfortable is when the whole offense has revolved around him. So the beginning of the Toronto game, and when he is given the ball at the end of a quarter to get his own shot. So far he has been deadly at the end of a quarter.


p.s. I re-wrote that a million times, so I hope it got across what I was trying to say.

I agree with you on some of that. He has looked pretty good when he was the one passing into the post, looking to get others involved/scoring from the elbow. He just hasn't shown the ability/willingness to do that within ANY other game except against the Wiz. Idk. I want him to have it and I want him to be great, I just wish I had more to go off of.

For example, if Paul had George's (Hill) confidence/mentality, he'd be an all-star. George has always seemed to have that type of mentality, even in his rookie yr on the Spurs, whereas Paul has maybe a handful of games where he's shown that aggressive mentality.

Eleazar
11-12-2012, 12:57 PM
With Paul I think it has less to do with aggressiveness or mentality, as it does confidence. He doesn't seem to have the confidence that what he is doing is what he is supposed to be doing. He isn't a selfish player, he needs to be told that it is good for him to be selfish sometimes. At the same time Vogel needs to realize the best way to use Paul is to run plays designed to get him open shots. He will never be a consistent give him the ball and let him do his thing type of player, that a Rose, LeBron, or to a much lesser extent Granger are, he is more a flow of the offense type of player with a sprinkling of let him do his thing. Those type of players tend to not make as big of splashes, but they can be just as deadly.

Naptown_Seth
11-13-2012, 12:55 AM
Maybe someday.

But if this season has taught us nothing else it is that Danny Granger is very hard to replace and no Paul George can't do it. I'll be polite & say yet, but in my mind I don't think he can do what Danny can do. He can do other things Danny could never do but Danny has the mindset of a killer & Paul just doesn't. There is nothing wrong with that btw, I think they compliment each other very well.

Quick trigger there Peck. Sheesh, 7 games in Paul's 3rd season with Danny being a surprise absence and Paul rebounding and defending at a better level than Danny's peak.

I don't see the "killer" part coming into play either way. He's yet to wilt or step up. He's still in 2nd or 3rd best guy mode which was his entire career experience until about 2 weeks ago.


Or course since I fully expect a Odd Thoughts rant saying Roy will never get another rebound or 10 point game again in his life, I shouldn't be surprised. You like to ride the roller coaster for sure. ;)


I do agree that Paul and Danny can compliment each other due to the type of game Paul likes playing, a bit more off the dribble and floating for his moment vs Danny's "give me the shot" spot up style. But over time in the void of Danny I think Paul will grow as a scorer. It's just that those things are 30-40 game developments, not 10 days.

Naptown_Seth
11-13-2012, 12:58 AM
Having dumped on Peck a bit, I think we can (and do) all agree that the 8m George Hill got was because the dude has a killer attitude inside him. The last couple of games he's just said "F this" and taken to insanely pushing the ball up court with his dribble and going right into sprinting layups, clearly showing a "well now this is happening" attitude. And it's helping.