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PUNKJER0916
11-10-2012, 03:36 PM
Should we trade Granger and switch PG to Small Forward? At this point, I think Danny deserves to win now and let's face it, we aren't there yet. I don't see us contending this year with or without Granger because the league around us got better over the off-season. I'm by no means saying we should tank this early in the season, by the way. I just think we should adjust the team by trading Granger for a talented PF (Paul Millsap or Al Jefferson for Granger would be nice) and finally getting Paul George to his natural position.

boombaby1987
11-12-2012, 03:38 PM
LOL at the idea of the Jazz giving us Paul Millsap or Al Jefferson for Granger. :laugh:

By the way, welcome to Pacers Digest. Didn't intend to be mean. It is just very unrealistic in the current situation.

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 03:45 PM
Danny's value is cero nobody is trading for him.

Derek2k3
11-12-2012, 03:49 PM
1-Granger has no trade value right now. Maybe next year when he's expiring, but ultimately no teams will give up anything of value for a guy that hasn't played in 5+ months, and probably won't for at least 7 months total.

2-Danny is hurt, DJ and Hibbert are slumping...and this is still the same team that took Miami to 6 games. It's a bit premature to make statements about this teams ability to contend. I'd be shocked to see anything other than Danny re-signed, along with David, this offseason.

Ace E.Anderson
11-12-2012, 04:06 PM
If you erase Granger's name, and add in West's name, you may have a legit poll that people can argue and discuss.

Yeah DG has zero trade value right now. I could see us re-signing him to a decent 10mil per type of contract, but nothing more.

IDK bout D.West however. We will see how the rest of the season shakes out. If we're 7-10 games below .500 by the trade deadline, I wouldn't be surprised if we traded West.

Sparhawk
11-12-2012, 04:34 PM
I agree with others that Danny could be traded in the offseason or next season as an expiring.

I'd love to see the pacers sign Josh Smith and then trade Granger for young assets+vet expiring if possible.

Peck
11-12-2012, 04:45 PM
Have you people lost your damn minds? Sorry I'm not normally this strong with my wording but am I the only person who see's that Danny Granger is down and our team has all but fallen apart. We have to be happy that we snuck out a victory vs. a winless team and pretend like this was somehow a breakout game?

If I'm making a move this year or this off season Danny Granger is not the person I'm moving unless I get a proven younger star player in return.

You put Danny back in this same lineup and we go from fretting about whether or not we are even going to make the playoffs to winning the Central & being a top 3 team in the East.

NEVER EVER has a player of his talent and ability been as undervalued as Danny Granger.

rexnom
11-12-2012, 04:53 PM
The player to trade is David West, if we are going to trade anyone. Good contract, inflated value.

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 05:09 PM
Have you people lost your damn minds? Sorry I'm not normally this strong with my wording but am I the only person who see's that Danny Granger is down and our team has all but fallen apart. We have to be happy that we snuck out a victory vs. a winless team and pretend like this was somehow a breakout game?

If I'm making a move this year or this off season Danny Granger is not the person I'm moving unless I get a proven younger star player in return.

You put Danny back in this same lineup and we go from fretting about whether or not we are even going to make the playoffs to winning the Central & being a top 3 team in the East.

NEVER EVER has a player of his talent and ability been as undervalued as Danny Granger.

Good luck in trading Danny for a young star player, hell good luck in trading him for an expirer.

By the way it looks like you and Able got your wish, Danny Granger is not going anywhere.... At least until he expires.

mrknowname
11-12-2012, 05:15 PM
david west would probably be traded before granger. then you could slide granger to the 4 which is something i think tbird suggested.

BlueNGold
11-12-2012, 05:25 PM
I know Granger is a good player, but I've wanted him traded for younger talent for some time. I wouldn't give him away of course. I would also want to trade West who is getting old. Yes, they are probably our two most effective offensive players and valuable. Don't give them away, but get younger and add more pieces who are in their mid twenties. JMHO.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
Panic has definitely set in on this board.

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 05:35 PM
I know Granger WASa good player, but I've wanted him traded for younger talent for some time. I wouldn't give him away of course. I would also want to trade West who is getting old. Yes, they are probably our two most effective offensive players and valuable. Don't give them away, but get younger and add more pieces who are in their mid twenties. JMHO.

Danny WAS a good player, remember that we don't know how good he is going to be or how long he is going to be able to play with the knee injury.

He was not even that good last year to begging with.

CJ Jones
11-12-2012, 05:41 PM
I voted yes because I feel we're hindering Paul's development playing him at the 2 alongside Danny (i know... i'm crazy), and I don't have a lot of faith in this collection of players beating Miami or any of the other real contenders so I don't mind taking a step back in the standings for a while depending on who we replace Danny with. I agree with the others though, it won't happen until at least next year.

Trophy
11-12-2012, 05:41 PM
Your post makes no sense. Trade him to a "winner" and you're saying to trade him to the Jazz? :confused:

We're a much better team than they are too.

Additionally, you're pretty much implying we aren't a good team and couldn't contend because other teams got better?

Some of these posts are just silly when the season isn't even two weeks in and we're 3-4.

1984
11-12-2012, 05:56 PM
Danny WAS a good player, remember that we don't know how good he is going to be or how long he is going to be able to play with the knee injury.

He was not even that good last year to begging with.

That's ridiculous. I'm sorry, but your wrong:

1. Danny Granger is proving you wrong by his absence from the Pacers.
2. Darren Collison is proving you wrong by his presence for the Mavericks.

1984
11-12-2012, 05:58 PM
In addition, tendinitis is common. It has plagued many, including Ray Allen. It did not slow down Ray Allen.

MillerTime
11-12-2012, 06:29 PM
We should trade Granger for Calderon (who expires this year) and let West expire.

Then make a move for Al Jefferson or Milsap - who are both FAs this coming summer

croz24
11-12-2012, 06:34 PM
About 4-5 years too late with this question.

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 06:37 PM
About 4-5 years too late with this question.

I think is 2/3 years too late.

TinManJoshua
11-12-2012, 06:44 PM
I voted yes because I feel we're hindering Paul's development playing him at the 2 alongside Danny (i know... i'm crazy), and I don't have a lot of faith in this collection of players beating Miami or any of the other real contenders so I don't mind taking a step back in the standings for a while depending on who we replace Danny with. I agree with the others though, it won't happen until at least next year.

The only hindrance on Paul's development is Paul. Everything else is just excuse-making.

CableKC
11-12-2012, 06:44 PM
Have you people lost your damn minds? Sorry I'm not normally this strong with my wording but am I the only person who see's that Danny Granger is down and our team has all but fallen apart. We have to be happy that we snuck out a victory vs. a winless team and pretend like this was somehow a breakout game?

If I'm making a move this year or this off season Danny Granger is not the person I'm moving unless I get a proven younger star player in return.

You put Danny back in this same lineup and we go from fretting about whether or not we are even going to make the playoffs to winning the Central & being a top 3 team in the East.

NEVER EVER has a player of his talent and ability been as undervalued as Danny Granger.
IMHO....I think that if you add Granger back into the Starting lineup...that we are in the same place that we were in the Playoffs last season.

This doesn't mean that I am advocating trading Granger or West ( unless the right deal comes along ), it means that this Teams problems may start with Danny ( cuz having him out of the lineup forces Vogel to "mix and match" the lineups...which isn't good )...but it does not end with Danny ( cuz it's painfully obvious that our bench isn't as good as we think it is ).

We will have a strong Starting lineup that can compete against any other Starting 5 in the Playoffs...but we still lack the necessary depth beyond the Starting 5 to make a deep run. At least for now.....the 2nd unit that is still flawed where Vogel will be forced to play the Starting 5 38 mpg while praying that DJ, Hansbrough, Lance and Mahinmi don't mess it all up when they are subbed in.

I am simply praying that Vogel looks beyond the next 3 months and figures out who the primary Players that will be used beyond the Starting 5 in the Playoffs and start building Chemistry among that 2nd unit so that they are ready to contribute once the Playoff hunt begins when Danny returns.

That means that Lance has to start playing WAY MORE CONSISTENT minutes than he is getting now...that means that DJ, Hansbrough and Mahinmi have to start getting more burn while playing with each other so that they are up to speed by the time the Playoff hunt starts.

Danny will return this season.....the key is to get the 2nd unit ready for the Playoffs so that they don't look like the way they look now.

CJ Jones
11-12-2012, 07:34 PM
The only hindrance on Paul's development is Paul. Everything else is just excuse-making.

I understand that I'll have to agree to disagree with most people on this topic, but I stand by opinion that playing him out of position and being the 5th option on a contending team has slowed his development. He's not blameless, though.

boombaby1987
11-12-2012, 08:06 PM
In addition, tendinitis is common. It has plagued many, including Ray Allen. It did not slow down Ray Allen.

It's not tendinitis. Its tendinosis. HUGE difference.

LG33
11-12-2012, 08:07 PM
About 4-5 years too late with this question.


I think is 2/3 years too late.

We should have never drafted the guy! He is a team cancer and never healthy.

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 08:10 PM
We should have never drafted the guy! He is a team cancer and never healthy.

Nobody is saying the bs that you are saying.

Anthem
11-12-2012, 08:36 PM
Danny ... was not even that good last year to begging with.
You crack me up.

If he's no big loss, then why are we missing him so much?

vnzla81
11-12-2012, 08:50 PM
You crack me up.

If he's no big loss, then why are we missing him so much?

You love to twist my words, I said that "he was not that good last year to begging with" not that the he is not a good player or that the Pacers are not missing him, either way anybody can do a better job than Green, Young or whoever of the scrubs they got.

The Pacers are not only missing Granger, the Pacers are missing DC, Barbosa,DJ and Lou, yes Lou, they are also missing Roy Hibbert.

Brad8888
11-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Nobody is saying the bs that you are saying.

Including LoneGranger33.

mattie
11-12-2012, 10:01 PM
Granger has no trade value? If anything it should be inflated at this point. His contract is far enough along that if anyone were to trade for him, it wouldn't screw them long term, and as far as the rest of the NBA is concerned apparently Indiana BLOWS without him, yet they're good enough to take a 2-1 lead on Miami with him. So no his trade value is not zero. that is absurd.

Also, some of you simply do not understand that some teams are looking for different things. For instance, if you don't think Danny is worth one of Utah's expiring big man contracts, especially when they have a log jam at those positions, you are high. They'd take it in a heartbeat. Utah is not keeping all of their bigs. They have young bigs they want on the court and it doesn't make sense for them to resign everyone.

PacerDude
11-12-2012, 10:10 PM
think Danny deserves to win now ............
Then tell him to get healthy and get his butt out on the court and win ballgames.

I get so tired of hearing 'blah-blah is towards the end of his career and he should be traded to a contender so he can win'. Nobody DESERVES to win.

Derek2k3
11-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Granger has no trade value? If anything it should be inflated at this point. His contract is far enough along that if anyone were to trade for him, it wouldn't screw them long term, and as far as the rest of the NBA is concerned apparently Indiana BLOWS without him, yet they're good enough to take a 2-1 lead on Miami with him. So no his trade value is not zero. that is absurd.

Also, some of you simply do not understand that some teams are looking for different things. For instance, if you don't think Danny is worth one of Utah's expiring big man contracts, especially when they have a log jam at those positions, you are high. They'd take it in a heartbeat. Utah is not keeping all of their bigs. They have young bigs they want on the court and it doesn't make sense for them to resign everyone.

The reason he doesn't have trade value right now is that no one will give up the pieces the Pacers would need in return for a guy that can't play.

It has absolutely nothing to do with his abilities, and everything to do with his availability.

MvPlumlee
11-13-2012, 06:10 AM
It is either that or trade Paul George. They are both SFs and I doubt the Pacers organisation will invest big money in both of them at the same time.
The longer they wait, the lesser the return will be, so if they can get a very good player for Granger, I don't see why not.

boombaby1987
11-13-2012, 11:13 AM
It doesn't matter if the consensus wants to trade him or not, because he has zero trade value. No one really knows the severity of this injury until he comes back this year, if it all.

OlBlu
11-13-2012, 11:58 AM
IMHO....I think that if you add Granger back into the Starting lineup...that we are in the same place that we were in the Playoffs last season.

This doesn't mean that I am advocating trading Granger or West ( unless the right deal comes along ), it means that this Teams problems may start with Danny ( cuz having him out of the lineup forces Vogel to "mix and match" the lineups...which isn't good )...but it does not end with Danny ( cuz it's painfully obvious that our bench isn't as good as we think it is ).

We will have a strong Starting lineup that can compete against any other Starting 5 in the Playoffs...but we still lack the necessary depth beyond the Starting 5 to make a deep run. At least for now.....the 2nd unit that is still flawed where Vogel will be forced to play the Starting 5 38 mpg while praying that DJ, Hansbrough, Lance and Mahinmi don't mess it all up when they are subbed in.

I am simply praying that Vogel looks beyond the next 3 months and figures out who the primary Players that will be used beyond the Starting 5 in the Playoffs and start building Chemistry among that 2nd unit so that they are ready to contribute once the Playoff hunt begins when Danny returns.

That means that Lance has to start playing WAY MORE CONSISTENT minutes than he is getting now...that means that DJ, Hansbrough and Mahinmi have to start getting more burn while playing with each other so that they are up to speed by the time the Playoff hunt starts.

Danny will return this season.....the key is to get the 2nd unit ready for the Playoffs so that they don't look like the way they look now.

I don't agree with this. Perhaps toward the end of the season some of the new folks on the bench will produce but it isn't happening now and that means the Pacers are not quite as good as last year even with Danny back. This could change by playoff time.....:cool:

McKeyFan
11-13-2012, 12:03 PM
How much precedent is there for teams trading for a player with a serious knee injury?

vnzla81
11-13-2012, 12:21 PM
How much precedent is there for teams trading for a player with a serious knee injury?

No with players that are injured, remember that they need to pass the physical when the trade is made, now if you talk about trading players with bad contracts that "recovered" from a knee injury you have Gilbert Arenas, he was traded for another crappy contract but still, Bynum for Iguadola? Ford+Hibbert+Rasho for JO? again those guys were at least moving when they were traded.

The Pacers only chance to trade him would be for a team that has a bad long term contract and is probably enticing for them to have Danny's two years left instead.

Edit: Here is the type of trade Pacers could probably do, maybe the other team is crazy enough to remove that bad contract:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ax8wget

Eleazar
11-13-2012, 12:27 PM
Can we at least wait until Granger is back and playing before we declare his career as a star over?

Derek2k3
11-13-2012, 12:29 PM
How much precedent is there for teams trading for a player with a serious knee injury?

I'm no historian, but Bynum recently (That's sure paying off)

Didn't Bogut have knee problems that forced him to sit all of last season? He was traded while injured.

Not really sure about many others, although it would be very interesting.

I suppose he'd have value to a team thinking they could get him cheap and have a nice veteran presence waiting in the wings for the playoffs/next season (Like Dallas, or OKC), but even that is a bit far-fetched.

OlBlu
11-13-2012, 12:31 PM
Can we at least wait until Granger is back and playing before we declare his career as a star over?

Granger is not and has never been a "star". He is a very good player and he has been the Pacers' best player for a long time but, alas, not a star.....:cool: He should have been traded during the rebuild two or three years ago when he still had some value. He no longer has that value.....:cool:

Derek2k3
11-13-2012, 12:31 PM
No with players that are injured, remember that they need to pass the physical when the trade is made, now if you talk about trading players with bad contracts that "recovered" from a knee injury you have Gilbert Arenas, he was traded for another crappy contract but still, Bynum for Iguadola? Ford+Hibbert+Rasho for JO? again those guys were at least moving when they were traded.

The Pacers only chance to trade him would be for a team that has a bad long term contract and is probably enticing for them to have Danny's two years left instead.

Edit: Here is the type of trade Pacers could probably do, maybe the other team is crazy enough to remove that bad contract:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ax8wget

I know you're just giving an example, so not trying to go "after you" or anything.

But what a bad trade for Indiana. Gooden sucks, Monta has shown he's a "good player on a bad team" kinda guy.

vnzla81
11-13-2012, 12:32 PM
Can we at least wait until Granger is back and playing before we declare his career as a star over?

Not wanting to be an smart a** or anything but Danny's career "as a star" has been over for a while.

vnzla81
11-13-2012, 12:38 PM
I know you're just giving an example, so not trying to go "after you" or anything.

But what a bad trade for Indiana. Gooden sucks, Monta has shown he's a "good player on a bad team" kinda guy.

Well my point is that no team is going to trade for Danny without adding a bad contract in return, I just don't see it happening, in my example Monta is an expiring contract freeing up 11mil next year for the Pacers, he could also help the Pacers for their playoffs aspirations this year, the only bad thing is having Gooden's bad contract.

OlBlu
11-13-2012, 12:43 PM
Not wanting to be an smart a** or anything but Danny's career "as a star" has been over for a while.

You have to be a star before your career as a "star" can be over but I agree with what you say. Granger has been in steady decline....:cool:

Derek2k3
11-13-2012, 12:51 PM
Well my point is that no team is going to trade for Danny without adding a bad contract in return, I just don't see it happening, in my example Monta is an expiring contract freeing up 11mil next year for the Pacers, he could also help the Pacers for their playoffs aspirations this year, the only bad thing is having Gooden's bad contract.

Yeah, I gotcha. Makes sense.

And, ultimately, that definitely makes your point. The Pacers won't be able to get back what Danny is worth to them, at least not until the offseason.


And count me in the group that thinks he'll come back just as good, if not better, than ever. The rest will do wonders, as long as he stays in shape. And he looked so good shooting the ball in his only appearance, he seemed to be back to the "old Danny" that was automatic from midrange, unlike last seasons Danny that struggled for 1/2 the season and the playoffs.

If this team can stay above water until he returns, they could be a major problem in the playoffs.

vnzla81
11-13-2012, 12:53 PM
I'm no historian, but Bynum recently (That's sure paying off)

Didn't Bogut have knee problems that forced him to sit all of last season? He was traded while injured.

Not really sure about many others, although it would be very interesting.

I suppose he'd have value to a team thinking they could get him cheap and have a nice veteran presence waiting in the wings for the playoffs/next season (Like Dallas, or OKC), but even that is a bit far-fetched.

Remember that Bynum is expiring so Philly has the choice to let him walk and free up cap space and I'm not sure about Bogut injury I think he is still having issues from that horrible injury he had two years ago.

Derek2k3
11-13-2012, 01:47 PM
Remember that Bynum is expiring so Philly has the choice to let him walk and free up cap space and I'm not sure about Bogut injury I think he is still having issues from that horrible injury he had two years ago.

I think you're right, but Bogut didn't play after the trade last year. No way he passed a physical, so there must be some exceptions for injured players. Maybe the receiving team needs to acknowledge they were aware of the injury?

As far as Bynum is concerned, that would be a disaster for Philly, letting him walk. Giving up Iggy and Brand for nothing? I know they wanted Brands contract gone, but still, that would sting.

1984
11-13-2012, 09:07 PM
An article regarding the difference between tendinitis and tendinosis: http://www.doctorschierling.com/tendinosis.html

As a note, I stand corrected. Thanks to boombaby1987.