PDA

View Full Version : Pacers/Minny postgame thread.



vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:23 PM
I'm not sure what Vogel was doing with Green there at the end.



GO Pacers .............

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Let's use yours.

Among the many other mistakes by Vogel, why is Hibbert not in on the last play when they don't need a three?

I'm thinking . . . "where is Hibbert to block the inside shot?" Sure enough we needed him.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:25 PM
Is there a player like Javale we could trade Hibbert for?

Bball
11-09-2012, 11:25 PM
IU won...

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
I don't think I'd want to be Gerald Green in the next film session. That was awful.

Some big plays by Hill down the stretch went to waste.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
Hibbert is not the ****ing problem.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
David West 19 points 13 rebounds. George Hill 29 points 7 assists 5 rebounds 1 block 1 steal 2 TO.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
The Minny Meltdown. Hope if doesn't portend the complete 2012-13 meltdown. I'm not optimistic for a variety of reasons.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:27 PM
Hibbert is not the ****ing problem.

10 points 4 rebounds is acceptable to you huh? He looks like he doesn't even care out there.

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:27 PM
I don't think I'd want to be Gerald Green in the next film session. That was awful.


I don't think you can undo that with coaching. smh.

Lance should never have been taken out. I'm pretty incensed about it.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:27 PM
If he can't get more than 4 boards and consistently impact the game, he will become a problem.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
David West 19 points 13 rebounds. George Hill 29 points 7 assists 5 rebounds 1 block 1 steal 2 TO.

Too bad that stat line doesn't show how poorly West played on defense.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
David West 19 points 13 rebounds. George Hill 29 points 7 assists 5 rebounds 1 block 1 steal 2 TO.

Great performances being wasted by inept teammates.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Let's use yours.

Among the many other mistakes by Vogel, why is Hibbert not in on the last play when they don't need a three?

I'm thinking . . . "where is Hibbert to block the inside shot?" Sure enough we needed him.

My question is why is Vogel putting Hansbrough on the pass and leaving West and Green inside the court to play D? does that makes sense?

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
Well we would have lost by 25 if David West didn't make tough shot after tough shot.

Mr_Smith
11-09-2012, 11:28 PM
This team just ain't good at all. Welcome back to 2006-2010

Pingu
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Frank won't last the year at this pace.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
10 points 4 rebounds is acceptable to you huh? He looks like he doesn't even care out there.

If it wasn't for Wests **** poor defense we win this game. It wasn't Hibbert that cost us this game.

granger4mvp
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
There is major issues here but atleast it is early and maybe something will click or change and they get back on track c'mon guys I wanna believe

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Is there a player like Javale we could trade Hibbert for?

Cousins.

MiaDragon
11-09-2012, 11:30 PM
10 points 4 rebounds is acceptable to you huh? He looks like he doesn't even care out there.

Not sure I agree, that being said he looks awful, and is a liability on the floor with his current play.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:30 PM
Im glad we have Donnie at GM as opposed to Bird. If Vogel needs to be gone, then Vogel will be gone.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:30 PM
Too bad that stat line doesn't show how poorly West played on defense.

If Hibbert played with half the stone West does, he'd do the same thing as West - impact the game despite his deficiencies. Hibbs right now is just one big deficiency playing with zero chutzpah.

Hypnotiq
11-09-2012, 11:30 PM
This team just ain't good at all. Welcome back to 2006-2010

meh we just have to hope we around the .500 mark when danny is back but no way in hell is this team finishing 2 or 3rd in the east we can kiss that goodbye already.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:31 PM
Well we would have lost by 25 if David West didn't make tough shot after tough shot.

Not wanting to trash West or anything but West was scoring as much as he was letting his guys score, they were going back and forth on each other.

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:31 PM
David West 19 points 13 rebounds. George Hill 29 points 7 assists 5 rebounds 1 block 1 steal 2 TO.

Not coincidentally, these two are probably the most mentally tough on our team by quite a lot. The only person that even comes close is Tyler. Everyone else (minus Lance) has folded like a ****ing accordion under the pressure of No Danny Granger-itis.

I hope someone on our staff is dialing up that sports psychiatrist...

MiaDragon
11-09-2012, 11:31 PM
Frank won't last the year at this pace.

Nor should he.

CableKC
11-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Is there a player like Javale we could trade Hibbert for?
we dont need to lower the basketball iq of the team any lower than it is now.

Sollozzo
11-09-2012, 11:32 PM
The Collison for Mahinmi trade was maybe the most lopsided trade in the NBA this off-season. And is there a more useless player than DJ Augistin right now? I hate to keep belaboring on this, but that series of moves has been nothing short of a disaster so far. We sure could use Collison in the backcourt right now. I don't believe for a second that Bird would have dumped Collison for such a crappy package had he stayed around.

Hibbert has to be one of the most overpaid players in the NBA right now. He's been beyond underwhelming so far this season.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Not wanting to trash West or anything but West was scoring as much as he was letting his guys score, they were going back and forth on each other.

That's true. If David West didn't score he was still going to be playing ****** defense anyone though, so at least he helped offset it.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:33 PM
If Hibbert played with half the stone West does, he'd do the same thing as West - impact the game despite his deficiencies. Hibbs right now is just one big deficiency playing with zero chutzpah.

Do you not pay attention to the defensive end of the court at all?

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:33 PM
The Collison for Mahinmi trade was maybe the most lopsided trade in the NBA this off-season. And is there a more useless player than DJ Augistin right now? I hate to keep belaboring on this, but that series of moves has been nothing short of a disaster so far. We sure could use Collison in the backcourt right now. I don't believe for a second that Bird would have dumped Collison for such a crappy package had he stayed around.

Hibbert has to be one of the most overpaid players in the NBA right now. He's been beyond underwhelming so far this season.

No question. I called it the fleecing of the offseason in the game thread.

3rdStrike
11-09-2012, 11:33 PM
Guys the Timberwolves minus their best players are the class of the Western Conference, there is no shame in losing to them, Charlotte, Atlanta and San Antonio. Am I doing this right?

Roy Hibbert is awesome. 0 free throw attempts, 4 rebounds, gave up what should have been a game winning layup that the opponent inexplicably missed. Such great effort from Big M0ney R0y. But I'm sure he'll turn it around one day.

Paul George, ... I can't even be sarcastic. I never want to read another quote about how he wants to be great, about how he learned so much from LeBron and the Olympians, none of it. What did he learn? It wasn't anything basketball related. My dude took 12 shots and got to the line ONCE. Averaging 13 shots per game and 2 free throws per game is garbage mode when the team is without a starter. Garbage. Mode. He's a chicken heart but still a valuable guard, so we'll use that money on a star at another position...wait, that money went to Roy Hibbert?!


The Lakers did the right thing and got rid of a coach who was in way over his head. If the Pacers don't do the same soon it is going to be a long season, which will probably lead to another rebuilding effort. George Hill, David West and Lance Stephenson are the only three who are capable of being effective under this quote-unquote OFFENSE.

duke dynamite
11-09-2012, 11:34 PM
100% mental. That's all this is.

MiaDragon
11-09-2012, 11:35 PM
The Collison for Mahinmi trade was maybe the most lopsided trade in the NBA this off-season. And is there a more useless player than DJ Augistin right now? I hate to keep belaboring on this, but that series of moves has been nothing short of a disaster so far. We sure could use Collison in the backcourt right now. I don't believe for a second that Bird would have dumped Collison for such a crappy package had he stayed around.

Hibbert has to be one of the most overpaid players in the NBA right now. He's been beyond underwhelming so far this season.

If the entire team is under performing, and they are, how long until you look toward the end of the bench as part of the problem.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:36 PM
Yes, I do. I saw PG and Gerald Green give up key easy layups down the stretch, so this trying to point out the obvious about West's defense isn't going to fly.

Let's see. So far this season, which player would we be better off without, West or Roy? Hmm...

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 11:36 PM
Too bad that stat line doesn't show how poorly West played on defense.

LOL, they just named him the defensive player of the game on the post game show, if I heard them right. I'm not saying he's that good, nor is he as bad as what you're suggesting. He's in the middle.

presto123
11-09-2012, 11:36 PM
Just think if we didn't have West right now. We might be at the basement of the whole league.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
11-09-2012, 11:37 PM
Roy looks scared out there, he has butter fingers. Fumbling the ball around. Time to get the head shrink back.

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 11:37 PM
I feel like Vogel takes it easy on them and they feel like they can just relax a lot of the time.

rock747
11-09-2012, 11:37 PM
This isn't on vogel. He didn't decide to totallly disregard the man he was defending on the most crucial defensive posession of the game! Pritchard has made this team so much worse... he's the one that should be fired.

MiaDragon
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Just think if we didn't play garbage teams at the start of the season. We might be at the basement of the whole league.

FYP.

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Do you not pay attention to the defensive end of the court at all?


I do. West played bad defense. Shocking.

However, I also noticed that Roy Hibbert failed to have much of an impact on this game from any end of the court.

Sollozzo
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
100% mental. That's all this is.

No, right now we don't have Granger and Collison. They were two extremely valuable contributors in the previous two seasons and gave us instant offense. One of them is off the team and who knows if the other one will come back healthy this year. It's simply not as good of a team as it was last year. The Granger situation is out of our control, but the dumping of Collison for a pitiful package was a self-inflicted wound and we are paying dearly. The Walsh/Pritchard combo gets an F- so far this year.

cgg
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
I know at least a few of West's man scoring was no one rotated.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Yes, I do. I saw PG and Gerald Green give up key easy layups down the stretch, so this trying to point out the obvious about West's defense isn't going to fly.

Let's see. So far this season, which player would we be better off without, West or Roy? Hmm...

So you didn't see easy lay-up after easy lay-up against West all game long as a problem?

DGPR
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
What I don't understand is how we can be the only team in the NBA who can't solve a zone defense with our inside/outside scorers. All of the players are guilty of just standing around and waiting for something to happen. Frank needs to strictly practice ball-movement and moving without the ball with the wings and point guards.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:38 PM
But, wait a sec. Wasn't Pritchard allegedly Bird's guy. He brought him in as whatever the title was until the Morway falling out went down.

rock747
11-09-2012, 11:39 PM
If the entire team is under performing, and they are, how long until you look toward the end of the bench as part of the problem.

Are you sure the entire team is under perorming? Or do we just have no ability to build leads because we have a d leauge bench

CableKC
11-09-2012, 11:39 PM
the problem with the team is that the 2nd unit just sucks....anyone beyond the starting 4 is doing terribly now. i think that mixing and matching the starting 4 with anyone else isn't building any chemistry among dj/lance/green/hans/mahinmi. anyone beyond the starting 4 has to start contributing. thats why we r losing. also...having Granger would only help a bit....cuz we would still have a crappy 2nd unit

3rdStrike
11-09-2012, 11:39 PM
Do you not pay attention to the defensive end of the court at all?

This is not something that should be said when Hibbert was literally beaten as badly as Gerald Green at the end of the 4th. And let's not forget that it was his predictably clutch turnover that gave the Wolves momentum before George Hill bailed him out. Not a good night to be defending R0y. And that's without factoring in his contract and the expectations. He's failing by little money R0y standards right now.

Magic P
11-09-2012, 11:40 PM
So you didn't see easy lay-up after easy lay-up against West all game long as a problem?

How you defend Roy and bash West is mind boggling.

presto123
11-09-2012, 11:41 PM
I wanted Pritchard here but I admit I was wrong. Giving Roy the big money was a mistake(I was hoping he went to Portland honestly) as was trading our team chemistry and energy away.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:42 PM
So you didn't see easy lay-up after easy lay-up against West all game long as a problem?

Okay, this is the last reply because I can't fathom how you can defend Hibbert's play so far this year by trying to emphasize West's weakness when it's obvious who's been the more valuable player by far to this point.

Go to the game thread. You will see in the 4th qtr that I said they had to get Roy back in when Pekovic was abusing West. Both guys have weaknesses. But there's not question right now that we'd have no wins without West. Hibbert is not playing well, and he needs to take a clue from West and develop some mental toughness.

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:44 PM
Are you sure the entire team is under perorming? Or do we just have no ability to build leads because we have a d leauge bench

Roy and PG are most definitely under performing. Especially Roy. PG at least had a couple of decent games on D and on the boards. So who else is left? We've got a D League guy in our starting five. I guess you can say he's performing about how you'd expect. lol.

The only guys not under performing are Hill, West, Lance and maybe Tyler.

Everyone else has been hot garbage for long, long stretches.

Bball
11-09-2012, 11:44 PM
I will forever believe Bird left because Simon balked at doing/spending/whatever Bird thought was necessary for the next step. Further if Simon wouldn't do it with the managerial clout Bird had built up after least season, then when would he do it?

So if this season doesn't turn around it won't surprise me after the blah offseason we followed a nice turnaround season with.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:44 PM
Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel messed up by having Green, who is not a good defender, on the court instead of Young.


Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel said it was because Young hadn't played in 20 minutes. Huh? Didn't know u had to be warm to play defense.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:46 PM
I will forever believe Bird left because Simon balked at doing/spending/whatever Bird thought was necessary for the next step. Further if Simon wouldn't do it with the managerial clout Bird had built up after least season, then when would he do it?

So if this season doesn't turn around it won't surprise me after the blah offseason we followed a nice turnaround season with.

That's why I'm asking about the whole Pritchard and/or Walsh culpability for these moves. I guess it's hard to explain agreeing to the Mahinmi fleecing, but it's almost like there was an edict to do the minimum and do it cheaply.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:47 PM
Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel messed up by having Green, who is not a good defender, on the court instead of Young.


Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel said it was because Young hadn't played in 20 minutes. Huh? Didn't know u had to be warm to play defense.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

Actually, that's one of the few situations I could see Young being good for.

Heisenberg
11-09-2012, 11:47 PM
wonder if Larry's been watching

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:47 PM
Wait. Do you realize we're mad because our team didn't sub one of our guys who is playing like a D-Leaguer for the other guy who is playing like a D-Leaguer?

I mean, I'm not disagreeing - Green should not have been in there. But how sad, sad, SAD is this?!?

3rdStrike
11-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Great logic! The guy doesn't have what it takes to be a head coach.

Eleazar
11-09-2012, 11:48 PM
How you defend Roy and bash West is mind boggling.

I am not saying Roy played well, I am just saying that despite West putting up a lot of stats his defense was one of the biggest reasons the Wolves were able to keep the lead. I am also saying over the course of this season Hibbert has been more positive than negative, just like George, but because neither is performing up to expectations on the offensive end everyone is ready to throw them under the bus. While West has an absolutely terrible game on the defensive end, people are ready to say he is part of the reason we kept it close.

It is mind boggling how people just completely ignore the defensive side of the ball.

D-BONE
11-09-2012, 11:48 PM
wonder if Larry's been watching

If so, he's probably even more elated with his decision to go.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Wait. Do you realize we're mad because our team didn't sub one of our guys who is playing like a D-Leaguer for the other guy who is playing like a D-Leaguer?

I mean, I'm not disagreeing - Green should not have been in there. But how sad, sad, SAD is this?!?

You are making me laugh like crazy :laugh:

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Vogel said it was because Young hadn't played in 20 minutes.
Bullcrap. Lance was warm.

Pingu
11-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Sam Young is Vogel's Michael Curry.

rock747
11-09-2012, 11:50 PM
I will forever believe Bird left because Simon balked at doing/spending/whatever Bird thought was necessary for the next step. Further if Simon wouldn't do it with the managerial clout Bird had built up after least season, then when would he do it?

So if this season doesn't turn around it won't surprise me after the blah offseason we followed a nice turnaround season with.

Yeah, so if this is the case, why even be a fan o the Pacers?

presto123
11-09-2012, 11:51 PM
How many games did Danny miss last year? I know we didn't look half this bad.

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:51 PM
Can someone explain to me why our best defender, Roy, was not in to defend the last play?

Heisenberg
11-09-2012, 11:52 PM
How many games did Danny miss last year? I know we didn't look half this bad.
4. lost to Philly and Cleveland w/o him, then he sat the last 2 games for rest, Pistons win and Bulls loss.

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:52 PM
Yeah, so if this is the case, why even be a fan o the Pacers?

Because BBall is a bigger fan than Simon.

presto123
11-09-2012, 11:52 PM
Can someone explain to me why our best defender, Roy, was not in to defend the last play?

I guess Vogel can:)

granger4mvp
11-09-2012, 11:53 PM
As much as I like Vogel maybe he needs to be let go and let shaw take over especially with all this laker crap going on

cgg
11-09-2012, 11:53 PM
PnR pulls a big out, West/Hibbert rotate, no one else rotates (normally Danny?) and then we bash their defense. Maybe I'll rewatch it and see how many times this happened.

Magic P
11-09-2012, 11:53 PM
Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel said it was because Young hadn't played in 20 minutes. Huh? Didn't know u had to be warm to play defense.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

Then why did he bring in DJ on the pacers final possession when he was on the bench almost as long as Young.

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:55 PM
I am not saying Roy played well, I am just saying that despite West putting up a lot of stats his defense was one of the biggest reasons the Wolves were able to keep the lead. I am also saying over the course of this season Hibbert has been more positive than negative, just like George, but because neither is performing up to expectations on the offensive end everyone is ready to throw them under the bus. While West has an absolutely terrible game on the defensive end, people are ready to say he is part of the reason we kept it close.

It is mind boggling how people just completely ignore the defensive side of the ball.

Eleazar. I often agree with you. I disagree this time, and it is not because I am ignoring defense. In fact, I tend to prioritize D, which is why I liked Rush to the very end.

West has been his usual defensive self - not good. I actually think he's been slightly better than he was last year. He hasn't been good. I don't think he's been absolutely terrible though. I wonder if you're not seeing some of the times when rotation is supposed to happen and it doesn't.

But Roy is not as good on D as he was last year either. How many times does an opposing player go in for a little floater right in front of Roy and he doesn't even get a hand up? I'm not at all sure that Roy has played such great D that it offsets his atrocious offense. I want to defend the big guy. I like Roy a lot. But he hasn't been more positive than negative. I just don't see it.

PG, on the other hand. I hate how he is shrinking from a bigger role on offense. But his defense is still pretty good. If you swapped Hibbert out and inserting PG into your arguments I might agree.

Bball
11-09-2012, 11:55 PM
Yeah, so if this is the case, why even be a fan o the Pacers?

Well, the return of Donnie Walsh did kill a lot of my enthusiasm for this season. It was one thing to believe Bird left because his wings were clipped... but then to have Donnie Do Nothing Walsh return? Blah...

And I just checked the Pacers score this evening. I watched the Hoosiers' season opener instead.

Cousy47
11-09-2012, 11:56 PM
Roy and PG are most definitely under performing. Especially Roy. PG at least had a couple of decent games on D and on the boards. So who else is left? We've got a D League guy in our starting five. I guess you can say he's performing about how you'd expect. lol.

The only guys not under performing are Hill, West, Lance and maybe Tyler.

Everyone else has been hot garbage for long, long stretches.

I think Tyler is playing pretty good defense this year. But, he needs to shoot 500 jump shots a day around the free throw circle until he can punish folks for giving him that shot. Get that PnPop shot and he will become a force again. Otherwise, move him to the 3 to defend only until Danny comes back.And if we keep the same rotations, please start Lance instead of Green.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:56 PM
I am not saying Roy played well, I am just saying that despite West putting up a lot of stats his defense was one of the biggest reasons the Wolves were able to keep the lead. I am also saying over the course of this season Hibbert has been more positive than negative, just like George, but because neither is performing up to expectations on the offensive end everyone is ready to throw them under the bus. While West has an absolutely terrible game on the defensive end, people are ready to say he is part of the reason we kept it close.

It is mind boggling how people just completely ignore the defensive side of the ball.

I 100% agree with this, like I said before West was scoring as much as he was letting his guys score on him, there is a reason why the Pacers were not able to get over the hump in the 4th quarter, I actually though Minny's coach was crazy for letting that skinny guy guard him but at the same time the skinny guy was scoring on the other side.

Bball
11-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Because BBall is a bigger fan than Simon.

I'm interested in the season... but I'm not emotionally invested in the season.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Bullcrap. Lance was warm.

:twss:


;)

gummy
11-09-2012, 11:57 PM
As much as I like Vogel maybe he needs to be let go and let shaw take over especially with all this laker crap going on

How do we really know he'd be better? I mean, he's not just an assistant. He's our "associate head coach." He's supposed to be heavily involved here. I think he has to take some of the heat right alongside Vogel.

rock747
11-09-2012, 11:59 PM
Its going to be hard to get over how bad simon/pritchard/walsh destoryed this team... we literally gave collison away for nothing...

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 11:59 PM
I'm interested in the season... but I'm not emotionally invested in the season.

Simon isn't fully invested either. Isn't that the point?

;)

TOP
11-10-2012, 12:00 AM
From game 1-66 last season, I always felt good about the Pacers winning their game and even down at the end, I was always optimistic they'd pull it out. For the most part, they did.

This season since game 1... I've never believed they were going to pull it out. For the most part, they haven't.


I hope things get better. This team has been a disaster.

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:01 AM
How do the Pacers expect to win fans back? You have to spend money to make it... they decided to be cheap and this is their result!

TOP
11-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Its going to be hard to get over how bad simon/pritchard/walsh destoryed this team... we literally gave collison away for nothing...

8 minutes the other night. 10 minutes tonight. Awesome...

And our 1st round pick has played 4 minutes.

Wasted all of our assets. Even the cap room we had. Max contract for a guy that had 10pts 4rebs 1blk 2tos. That's his entire stat line for the night. Max contract? Kenyon Martin just said he'll play for the league minimum. Even he could put up those numbers and I'm sure plenty of other unemployed players could as well.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 12:02 AM
How do the Pacers expect to win fans back? You have to spend money to make it... they decided to be cheap and this is their result!
Let's not pretend Herb's Robert Sarver or something.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:04 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Pacers a supposed to be eastern conference final favorite loss to a team without their best two players? they are supposed to have a deep team, they are supposed to be good enough to beat mediocre teams and they can't :kickcan:

granger4mvp
11-10-2012, 12:06 AM
How do we really know he'd be better? I mean, he's not just an assistant. He's our "associate head coach." He's supposed to be heavily involved here. I think he has to take some of the heat right alongside Vogel.

We don't but he's been around great coaches and players over the years and I'm sure he is part of the blame but I think he would do a good what's it gonna hurt

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 12:06 AM
So it just occurred to me, we bought Orlando Johnson's rights. I don't know how much we paid, but generally picks are sold for 3 million right? That's pretty close to the difference between our current payroll and being as close to the lux tax as possible w/o going over.

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:07 AM
Let's not pretend Herb's Robert Sarver or something.

Well he had a team he could legitemately improve on and build a fanbase with and they made lowball moves this summer... actually appears they made the team worse

Hoop
11-10-2012, 12:08 AM
I'm trying to stay positive. Hill had a monster game and looks to be earning his contract new contract.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 12:09 AM
Well he had a team he could legitemately improve on and build a fanbase with and they made lowball moves this summer... actually appears they made the team worseInvesting something like 110 million into the team isn't lowball. Herb obviously spent money. Complain about how it was spent all you want, I'd agree, but all Herb does is sign the checks.

TOP
11-10-2012, 12:10 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how the Pacers a supposed to be eastern conference final favorite loss to a team without their best two players? they are supposed to have a deep team, they are supposed to be good enough to beat mediocre teams and they can't :kickcan:

Bareas pretty good too and they didn't have him either.


Pacers are supposed to be the one good team I'm a fan of this season...

LoneGranger33
11-10-2012, 12:10 AM
I'm ready to see Orlando Johnson and Miles Plumlee get minutes. Why not, right? Orlando Johnson is probably as effective as Green or Young, and Plumlee as useful as Mahinmi.

boombaby1987
11-10-2012, 12:11 AM
Over under 10000 people there tommorrow night.

Derek2k3
11-10-2012, 12:12 AM
I know it's way too early, but I wonder how far things go before you think about trading Roy.

His contract straps the franchise financially, and unless he is able to be a gamechanger you can't keep paying. Obviously things would have to stay really bad to even consider it, but you have to wonder if we could have a Nene/Denver situation here.

This is sickening. What a disappointment. This has been an incredible underachieving start to the season.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:12 AM
Well he had a team he could legitemately improve on and build a fanbase with and they made lowball moves this summer... actually appears they made the team worse

The players they brought here are the equivalent of Diener, Kareem Rush and Solomon Jones but way more expensive.

DJ=Diener
Green= Kareem Rush
Ian= Solomon Jones

TOP
11-10-2012, 12:14 AM
The players they brought here are the equivalent of Diener, Kareem Rush and Solomon Jones but way more expensive.

DJ=Diener
Green= Kareem Rush
Ian= Solomon Jones

If Hibbert doesn't start playing better his contract will = Troy Murphy/Mike Dunleavy.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:14 AM
I'm ready to see Orlando Johnson and Miles Plumlee get minutes. Why not, right? Orlando Johnson is probably as effective as Green or Young, and Plumlee as useful as Mahinmi.

Sign me in and I don't even like either player.

Derek2k3
11-10-2012, 12:16 AM
Over under 10000 people there tommorrow night.

Second home game, or I'd take the under. However, I think people are probably already locked in, so we'll likely get our 14k like usual.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:17 AM
Here is the last play for those that care

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vByA2jr1zNs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:17 AM
Over under 10000 people there tommorrow night.

barely over...

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:18 AM
If Hibbert doesn't start playing better his contract will = Troy Murphy/Mike Dunleavy.

worse

dal9
11-10-2012, 12:18 AM
Can someone explain to me why our best defender, Roy, was not in to defend the last play?

in fairness, he has a history of getting burned on D, especially on P & R situations. He's been taken out on last second plays in the past (including playoffs) and it has tended to work. That said, max contract guy who is (supposed to be) good at D, you gotta leave him in.

LoneGranger33
11-10-2012, 12:20 AM
The players they brought here are the equivalent of Diener, Kareem Rush and Solomon Jones but way more expensive.

DJ=Diener
Green= Kareem Rush
Ian= Solomon Jones

Diener was much better than D.J. Augustin has been thus far.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 12:21 AM
Augustin's the one I can't figure out more than anything. I'm not writing Green or Mahinmi off at all, but it's clear to everyone those were somewhat of gambles. Augustin was consistently solid in Charlotte from day one. It's like he literally forgot how to play.

dal9
11-10-2012, 12:26 AM
Here is the last play for those that care

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vByA2jr1zNs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ew.

that's like me on D sometimes when I accidentally get in a pick up game with actual athletes.

That should not happen to an NBA defender.

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:29 AM
Here is the last play for those that care

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vByA2jr1zNs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

How can you be in the NBA and let something like this happen? this is the most crucial play of the game.

Wage
11-10-2012, 12:32 AM
Augustin's the one I can't figure out more than anything. I'm not writing Green or Mahinmi off at all, but it's clear to everyone those were somewhat of gambles. Augustin was consistently solid in Charlotte from day one. It's like he literally forgot how to play.

Did TJ Ford forget how to play when he came to the Pacers?
Did DC forget how to play when he came to the Pacers, only to suddenly remember again when joining the Mavs?
Did Augustin forget how to play when he came to the Pacers?

Find the constant, and the problem starts to become clear.

graphic-er
11-10-2012, 12:34 AM
I am so furious over this game. We come back in the 4th and overcome all our stupid boneheaded plays to tie the game, and then we lose the game on a boneheaded play. At some point the coaching staff has to realize what type of players they actually have. Not what they project them to be.

Again, think twice about bringing in players from a culture of losing. While giving up key players for nothing. Our offseason looks terrible. Though I don't regret paying Hill at all. He is a gamer. Hill is the heart of this team right now. Shame that his will to win is over shadowed by his teammates and coach's incompetence.

flox
11-10-2012, 12:37 AM
The players they brought here are the equivalent of Diener, Kareem Rush and Solomon Jones but way more expensive.

DJ=Diener
Green= Kareem Rush
Ian= Solomon Jones

oh come on thats insulting Diener, Rush, and Jones were so much better than DJ, Green, and Ian.

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:37 AM
The scariest thing is that Green is locked up for 3 years...

flox
11-10-2012, 12:42 AM
Did TJ Ford forget how to play when he came to the Pacers?
Did DC forget how to play when he came to the Pacers, only to suddenly remember again when joining the Mavs?
Did Augustin forget how to play when he came to the Pacers?

Find the constant, and the problem starts to become clear.

Ironically for those of you watching last year TJ Ford was a great backup point guard for the Spurs and a key bench player until he got stepped on and his career ended. What a pity. I think had he been healthy the Spurs might have won the title last year, since they were one outside shooter who doesn't choke in the playoffs away from beating the Thunder and Heat.

I'm starting to think theres something in the water here.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:44 AM
The scariest thing is that Green is locked up for 3 years...

And Ian too.

Doddage
11-10-2012, 12:45 AM
And Ian too.
Ian's 4 years.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 12:47 AM
Ian's 4 years.

Even better......

2minutes twoa
11-10-2012, 12:50 AM
Yes, the sky is falling after 6 games! All the players suck and Vogel, Pritchard and Walsh should all be fired!

Geez, get a grip ladies!!

Purple Ace
11-10-2012, 12:51 AM
Pick up Mickael Pietrus, Celtics PF last year. If they get him he's good for 9 Points a game, 3 boards, and shut down D.

Kstat
11-10-2012, 12:52 AM
Not having granger really hurts Indiana. I'm sorry but not a single player on that team can do what granger does well.

I'm not a big fan of any of their wings. I like George as a defender but he isn't in grangers league as a scorer.

I think this team is Fine without collison. Without collison and granger...they take a step back. Just not enough skill on the perimeter.

rock747
11-10-2012, 12:54 AM
Yes, the sky is falling after 6 games! All the players suck and Vogel, Pritchard and Walsh should all be fired!

Geez, get a grip ladies!!

.... what amount of games is required?

Eleazar
11-10-2012, 12:55 AM
As long as we aren't asking Ian to be an offensive threat in the post I think he will be fine. His length alone makes him a decent defender, now we just need to get the refs to stop calling fouls on him when he clearly gets all ball.

Green could be a solid scorer off the bench, just don't ask him to do anything else. (i.e. inbound pass or play defense at the end of the game)

Augustine.......let's go after a back-up PG who can at least defend next summer.

presto123
11-10-2012, 12:56 AM
Yes, the sky is falling after 6 games! All the players suck and Vogel, Pritchard and Walsh should all be fired!

Geez, get a grip ladies!!

I'll remind you what you said after 40 games.

imawhat
11-10-2012, 01:08 AM
Can someone explain to me why our best defender, Roy, was not in to defend the last play?

I'm guessing it was either the bad defense he played in this game or the sulking he was doing. He barely even got off the bench when Hill drained that tying three, while the rest of his teammates were happy for Hill.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2012, 01:13 AM
Gotta agree with KStat. Let's put Vogel in the bottom-10, for argument's sake.

With Danny out, our wings can't be better than 29th. Name 2 sets worse than George-Green/Stephenson/Sam? Don't think you can.

So that's a bigger concern than coaching, and won't get fixed until Danny returns.

Our bench might be 30th. Six games in, and we haven't had a single good performance from any of them yet. That's bad.

I think they're making Frank look bad more than Frank's making the Pacers look bad. But we're not losing because our bench sucks. They aren't that big of a factor either way. Our wings are wretched.

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 01:16 AM
I'm guessing it was either the bad defense he played in this game or the sulking he was doing. He barely even got off the bench when Hill drained that tying three, while the rest of his teammates were happy for Hill.

neither. Minny went small for the last play. Roy didn't have anyone he could guard. Check the replay.

Ace E.Anderson
11-10-2012, 01:28 AM
It's funny how in the offseason everyone thought we overplayed for Hill and did what we had to for Roy.

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 01:32 AM
Lots of truth here. Danny and David are the only two real scorers on the team. Other guys can score, but asking them to be a primary scorer is asking too much game in and game out. Losing DC only aggravated the problem. He was the other guys that could score.

Pacers philosophy is getting players that can 'score and defend their position'. But there is a difference between being able to score and being a primary scorer. Right now David West is the only guy that can get the ball on a regular basis and get points out of it. George Hill is getting better, but he is not a guy you can say 'I need 25 pts from you tonight. No one else on the team can score 30 unless you leave them alone in the gym. edit: this is wrong. tyler can score, but at the NBA level, he is a complementary player. Complementary scorer is a better way to describe the rest of the guys.

Now Hill may become the other scorer the Pacers need. Frank seems to be doing some nice two man game things with him and David. Here's hoping they get it figured out quickly.

BTW, that $40M over 8 yrs is looking more and more like money well spent.


Not having granger really hurts Indiana. I'm sorry but not a single player on that team can do what granger does well.

I'm not a big fan of any of their wings. I like George as a defender but he isn't in grangers league as a scorer.

I think this team is Fine without collison. Without collison and granger...they take a step back. Just not enough skill on the perimeter.

rock747
11-10-2012, 01:35 AM
We should sign Baron Davis to play backup PG.

wintermute
11-10-2012, 01:53 AM
Now Hill may become the other scorer the Pacers need. Frank seems to be doing some nice two man game things with him and David. Here's hoping they get it figured out quickly.


Agree that Hill is probably the best shot we have of someone filling in as scorer. It's glaringly obvious that it's not going to be Paul George or Gerald Green, at least for now.

I would have suggested starting Augustin at PG while shifting Hill to SG if Augustin didn't suck so much. As it is, I think we should cut Ben Hans and sign a vet PG who can play (Shaun Livingston is available) to start alongside Hill. It's not as if we have a ton of complicated plays that a new PG would need to pick up on either.

diamonddave00
11-10-2012, 01:57 AM
Sad fact as bad as you are knocking Gerald Green for everything he did outrebound Hibbert 6 to 4. He was also fouled 2 or 3 times on shots which were obvious ref missed called even Buckner pointed that out.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 02:07 AM
@ArturoGalletti: .@HPbasketball Jeff Green bad offseason signing or the worst offseason signing?

aamcguy
11-10-2012, 02:12 AM
I just finished watching the game, and I have to say that the offense looked better tonight. It definitely looked like they trimmed the playbook and focused more on inside-out play. The bad thing is that it looked like they were running the plays in a practice walk-through style. There were actually cutters, but normally the play didn't develop fast enough for the guy to turn and hit hit the cutter before his man caught up.

Hill and West were bosses out there, that's for sure. And he didn't play well again, but I don't think Hibbert looks like he doesn't care. I think the man looks tired. He just looked gassed. Lance played well and PG had a meh game. And I am soooo tired of watching Green miss those stupid twisting fallaway jumpers. I mean, he shoots them on fast breaks when we have an advantage.

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 02:15 AM
Agree that Hill is probably the best shot we have of someone filling in as scorer. It's glaringly obvious that it's not going to be Paul George or Gerald Green, at least for now.

I would have suggested starting Augustin at PG while shifting Hill to SG if Augustin didn't suck so much. As it is, I think we should cut Ben Hans and sign a vet PG who can play (Shaun Livingston is available) to start alongside Hill. It's not as if we have a ton of complicated plays that a new PG would need to pick up on either.

yeah, Augustin has really been a disappointment. Which is really sad as I only expected him to be a decent backup for a year. At this rate, he's going to be working for the vet's min next year. But he is the only guy that can play the point right now. He has to stay with the reserves.

Another way to go instead of picking up a bad PG would be looking for a combo guard instead. There have to be some undersized SG that handle the ball well enough to play the point for the Pacers. I think that would give the B&G another shooter at least.

xIndyFan
11-10-2012, 02:18 AM
Sad fact as bad as you are knocking Gerald Green for everything he did outrebound Hibbert 6 to 4. He was also fouled 2 or 3 times on shots which were obvious ref missed called even Buckner pointed that out.

I think Gerald will be OK eventually. He has some strange holes in his game and it evidently is taking some time to fit this particular square peg into the Pacers rotation.

Sookie
11-10-2012, 02:19 AM
yeah, Augustin has really been a disappointment. Which is really sad as I only expected him to be a decent backup for a year. At this rate, he's going to be working for the vet's min next year. But he is the only guy that can play the point right now. He has to stay with the reserves.

Another way to go instead of picking up a bad PG would be looking for a combo guard instead. There have to be some undersized SG that handle the ball well enough to play the point for the Pacers. I think that would give the B&G another shooter at least.

I think the Pacers should get a real point guard.

Starting DJ might help him, actually. I mean, he's not good defensively, but he'll be playing with scorers so there won't be so much pressure on him to score.

Goyle
11-10-2012, 02:33 AM
I think the Pacers should get a real point guard.

Starting DJ might help him, actually. I mean, he's not good defensively, but he'll be playing with scorers so there won't be so much pressure on him to score.

I don't know about starting him, but I'd like to at least see him get a bit of run with the starters. It can't be much worse than the Young or Green lineups.

TMJ31
11-10-2012, 02:37 AM
Wow. What a disappointing finish. Didn't get to see the game live, had to catch it on DVR.

I was so proud of David and George, they really just took the team on their backs and willed us to win it.

Too bad Gerald Green wouldn't let them. Pretty sure my not-quite-2 year old daughter could have defended Buddinger on that last shot :(

Pace Maker
11-10-2012, 02:44 AM
at this point George Hill has a better shot of becoming our "star" than PG. Paul is going to be a good player, but I just don't think he can be a consistent scorer. Definitely not a #1 option.

Eleazar
11-10-2012, 02:57 AM
I like what I have seen the past few games from Hill, he has shown a lot of improvement from last year. The past two games he has been as good as Danny was at his peak.

Foul on Smits
11-10-2012, 03:21 AM
Did anyone wake Gerald Green up at the top of the key before the bus left for the airport? I'm concerned he might still be there. Or maybe i'm not.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 03:33 AM
@indystar_pacers: BLOG: Pacers: Green cost them the game, but Vogel deserves blame, too http://t.co/7FuaLILX

Pacemaker
11-10-2012, 03:41 AM
Sam "The Budinger Stopper" Young was a better option for that final stop ! He should've been in for Tyler or better yet for Gerald "Where's my man" Green.

notque
11-10-2012, 03:41 AM
Augustin's the one I can't figure out more than anything. I'm not writing Green or Mahinmi off at all, but it's clear to everyone those were somewhat of gambles. Augustin was consistently solid in Charlotte from day one. It's like he literally forgot how to play.

He needs to play a different offense style. He's not great, but to get good out of him, he has to do the thing he does. Otherwise you get all the negatives without the only thing he can do, run a team.

Make him the starter, move Hill to SG, and ask Augustine what he wants to run, and make it happen.

MvPlumlee
11-10-2012, 04:31 AM
NBA.com starting their highlights with Rubio and Love in the back and Amundson in the middle is gold. I really thought they were going to say something about Lou :laugh:

CableKC
11-10-2012, 04:41 AM
I'm ready to see Orlando Johnson and Miles Plumlee get minutes. Why not, right? Orlando Johnson is probably as effective as Green or Young, and Plumlee as useful as Mahinmi.
Actually, I assume that it would be better to give Lance and Miles FAR MORE minutes. Lance, only because it looks like he's starting to get it and he needs the minutes to get there....whereas for Miles...I am seeing more lineups with West and Hansbrough on the floor at the same time....I saw enough of that last season to know that the rebounding and defense sucks when both are in the frontcourt. If Mahinmi isn't going to get minutes....then put Miles in there.

CableKC
11-10-2012, 04:44 AM
We should sign Baron Davis to play backup PG.
No.

Foul on Smits
11-10-2012, 05:07 AM
I would give the ball to Lance as starting PG. Move Hill to SG and George to SF. Let's see what Lance can do when he's really given a chance. He's earned that much in my eyes and i was one of the people that thought we should have gotten rid of him. His game has matured a lot.

rexnom
11-10-2012, 05:15 AM
The Collison for Mahinmi trade is not as terrible as it might seem, actually. And it could still pan out (the idea of trading PG talent for big talent was a solid one). Granger being out just makes the trade look a lot worse than it actually was because we traded a gifted offensively player for someone who we don't really expect to do many things but fill in for Roy, which he has done admirably and will probably continue to improve on.

However, that entire deal was premised on the idea that (a) Augustin was a serviceable back up and (b) Green was as gifted offensively as Collison. Neither have panned out. If Augustin and Green had been as good as advertised, we'd be doing a lot better right now.

More fundamentally, this team is based on the idea that everyone has a role and is a particular kind of cog in the machinery. Danny is at the center of all of that. When you have a team of talented role players with different skills, you need the center cog even more than a team built on just a few big cogs might. That is, Dwyane Wade might be better than Danny but the role of every other player on that team is not predicated on his play. I think our team realized that we had this vulnerability in the offseason and tried to address it by getting Mahinmi (fill in cog for Roy) and Green (fill in cog for Danny). Unfortunately, Green is just not a talented scorer. And worse, he represents a huge drop off on defense as well.

McKeyFan
11-10-2012, 07:49 AM
in fairness, he has a history of getting burned on D, especially on P & R situations. He's been taken out on last second plays in the past (including playoffs) and it has tended to work. That said, max contract guy who is (supposed to be) good at D, you gotta leave him in.

That makes sense if they need a three pointer. Is our best defender really that bad of a defender when it counts most?

clownskull
11-10-2012, 08:52 AM
Augustin's the one I can't figure out more than anything. I'm not writing Green or Mahinmi off at all, but it's clear to everyone those were somewhat of gambles. Augustin was consistently solid in Charlotte from day one. It's like he literally forgot how to play.

yeah- i knew he (dj) was stinking it up on his shooting however, it is really, really bad. his fg% is BARELY 17% right now. and even though roy has been getting a ton of flack (and he deserves some no doubt) mahinmi has been very underwhelming as well. he played 10 minutes last night and pulls down 1 freakin rebound.
i can understand that if he was a guard but a center? if he plays like this- we might as well of kept solomon jones for like 1/5 the price.

yoadknux
11-10-2012, 08:55 AM
Hibbert wasn't in because the wolves went small ball on that last play and I guess Vogel didn't want to have Hibbert chasing smaller guys. And come on people, on these situations there are so many switches that having Hibbert wouldn't have changed anything because he wouldn't have been able to focus on some guy going to the rim. For these situations you need quick defenders, not inside cloggers.

2minutes twoa
11-10-2012, 09:36 AM
.... what amount of games is required?

More than 7% of the season preferably.

2minutes twoa
11-10-2012, 09:43 AM
I'll remind you what you said after 40 games.

Please do, I look forward to it. Frustrating start for sure, but way too early for knee jerk reactions!

Ace E.Anderson
11-10-2012, 10:09 AM
I CANNOT believe ppl are still complaining about the PG position after what Hill did the last 2 nights. Dude damn near won the game by himself. He's not perfect but is evolving into a hell of a PG. Just cuz he can score well, doesnt make him less of a PG in todays game. In fact playing the way he does is the way of 85%-90% of the PG's in the NBA.

I'm convinced that unless someone has Mark Jackson type numbers/mentality, they aren't deemed a good PG by most of PD. Which is sad bc they're missing a hell of an evolution in a player.

F-in stupid.

McKeyFan
11-10-2012, 10:30 AM
I CANNOT believe ppl are still complaining about the PG position after what Hill did the last 2 nights. Dude damn near won the game by himself. He's not perfect but is evolving into a hell of a PG. Just cuz he can score well, doesnt make him less of a PG in todays game. In fact playing the way he does is the way of 85%-90% of the PG's in the NBA.

I'm convinced that unless someone has Mark Jackson type numbers/mentality, they aren't deemed a good PG by most of PD. Which is sad bc they're missing a hell of an evolution in a player.

F-in stupid.
Ace, I don't think most people are looking at it that way. They want George Hill on the floor. They just are desperate to find someone else to help with offense and scoring.

Those proposing another point guard are missing, in my opinion, the obvious solution: Lance.

BlueNGold
11-10-2012, 10:43 AM
Ace, I don't think most people are looking at it that way. They want George Hill on the floor. They just are desperate to find someone else to help with offense and scoring.

Those proposing another point guard are missing, in my opinion, the obvious solution: Lance.

It's definitely Lance's time. I suspect he will be given more minutes, but not immediately.

jrwannabe
11-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Has everyone seen what AJ has been doing lately. PGs come here and suck, go elsewhere and improve drastically. I have no problem trying the DJ, Hill, George, west, Hibbs line up tonight. Let's see what a Bhans, lance, young, thans, miles second unit can do. Tonight is the night to try it.

I second the thought of going after livingston. Cut Pendergraph already please!!!!!! I could fall in a hole everyday and suffer less injuries per year than this guy. Should have cut him and kept Lou anyways.

Sollozzo
11-10-2012, 11:00 AM
Does anyone else think that this team misses having Bird's aura around it? Like him or not, Bird is a top 5 all time player who commands instant respect and credibility from any young NBA player. It's not everyday that an NBA legend drafts you on his team. Last year's team was "his guys". His hanging around practice, motivating the players, being in the locker room, etc, all had to be a positive influence on our young team.

IndyJones
11-10-2012, 11:07 AM
Obviously the Pacers are noticing how well tanking the last season has worked out for the Colts #SuckForZeller
/s

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 11:14 AM
Does anyone else think that this team misses having Bird's aura around it? Like him or not, Bird is a top 5 all time player who commands instant respect and credibility from any young NBA player. It's not everyday that an NBA legend drafts you on his team. Last year's team was "his guys". His hanging around practice, motivating the players, being in the locker room, etc, all had to be a positive influence on our young team.

No really, to me last year because of the short season the Pacers were able to overachieve, not only that but a lot of key players in the NBA were hurt (Howard,Bosh,Rose,Amare,etc).

Cousy47
11-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Why not just do that same thing with him on the 2nd unit. Ask him how he wants to run the offense and give it a try. DJ, Lance, Hans, IM and either Plumlee or OJ. Run, jump and hit people. Young needs to marinate in the sauce for a while. I would still make Tyler shoot 500 jump shots a day and fine him for every one he misses over 50%. See if Brad Miller would be willing to work with him a couple of hours a day. This guy is totallly being wasted, or is a waste of time. We need to find out soon. Tyler came in here with a decent jumpshot and good leadership skills, he has neither now.

vnzla81
11-10-2012, 11:40 AM
Where is Peck's odd thoughts by the way? :confused:

Sollozzo
11-10-2012, 11:50 AM
No really, to me last year because of the short season the Pacers were able to overachieve, not only that but a lot of key players in the NBA were hurt (Howard,Bosh,Rose,Amare,etc).


Yeah, I agree with all of that too. We were extremely healthy. Wasn't the George Hill injury the only significant injury for our team? Also, many of the older teams were not in shape when the season started and we were able to beat several quality teams early on. Playing a compact schedule with our young healthy legs was a big advantage for us.

I know there are several threads trying to decipher why we aren't very good right now, but for me it's pretty simple. We are without Granger and Collison, two of the best players on our team last year. They created instant offense. We haven't been able to come close to replacing either of them. The new players aren't any good so far, and the guys who were on the team last year haven't improved enough to make up the difference. When you take two of your best players away and don't have anyone solid who can replace them, then it shouldn't be a surprise when you aren't nearly as good. The Granger situation obviously isn't the Pacers fault, but Collison sure as hell is.

McKeyFan
11-10-2012, 11:51 AM
Where is Peck's odd thoughts by the way? :confused:

My guess is he is so overwhelmed (angry, nutty, etc.) that he decided to hold his fire as long as he can. He deferred to DD, who wrote a similar type of post, and Peck made a long comment, but is saving his gunpowder.

:twocents:

Derek2k3
11-10-2012, 11:52 AM
Where is Peck's odd thoughts by the way? :confused:

Based on his twitter reaction, I'd say he's calming down first.

Ace E.Anderson
11-10-2012, 11:54 AM
Ace, I don't think most people are looking at it that way. They want George Hill on the floor. They just are desperate to find someone else to help with offense and scoring.

Those proposing another point guard are missing, in my opinion, the obvious solution: Lance.

Very effective backcourt. They Look great together offensively, work in progress defensively, but Lance's defensive issues can be fixed with PT.

Goyle
11-10-2012, 01:04 PM
Has everyone seen what AJ has been doing lately. PGs come here and suck, go elsewhere and improve drastically. I have no problem trying the DJ, Hill, George, west, Hibbs line up tonight. Let's see what a Bhans, lance, young, thans, miles second unit can do. Tonight is the night to try it.

I second the thought of going after livingston. Cut Pendergraph already please!!!!!! I could fall in a hole everyday and suffer less injuries per year than this guy. Should have cut him and kept Lou anyways.

AJ has been just as awful as he was here. The difference is he's starting and getting the opportunity to put up shots and run the pick n roll A LOT. He drives Wizards fans on twitter just as nuts as he did the people on here with his shot selection, its pretty funny.

CableKC
11-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Augustine.......let's go after a back-up PG who can at least defend next summer.
I'm gonna say it until the offseason, but Jarrett Jack is that guy.

Pingu
11-10-2012, 01:38 PM
AJ has been just as awful as he was here. The difference is he's starting and getting the opportunity to put up shots and run the pick n roll A LOT. He drives Wizards fans on twitter just as nuts as he did the people on here with his shot selection, its pretty funny.

Yeah, AJ is shooting 31% from the floor (and 30% from 3), not exactly stellar numbers (though, granted, he's shooting the ball twice as well as DJ Augustin...)

Derek2k3
11-10-2012, 01:48 PM
The saddest part of this stupid game:

We got beat handily in the second half by a team without 4 key rotation players: Love/Rubio/Barea/Roy. Pekovic wasn't anything special last night...and we still lost to fricking Ridnour/Budinger and company. Embarrassing.

repole
11-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Green is notorious defensively for ball watching (which is funny, because offensively as a guy who's trying to backdoor for oops all the time, you'd think he'd get why that's not such a good idea). Don't know if coaching can change that or what, but he shouldn't be on the floor for the last defensive possession.

Sparhawk
11-10-2012, 02:02 PM
Green is notorious defensively for ball watching (which is funny, because offensively as a guy who's trying to backdoor for oops all the time, you'd think he'd get why that's not such a good idea). Don't know if coaching can change that or what, but he shouldn't be on the floor for the last defensive possession.

I don't think it's just Green. Seems a lot of players are prone to watching the ball on D, especially Hibbert. He'll lose his guy often and give up the offensive rebound.

cgg
11-10-2012, 06:49 PM
I don't think it's just Green. Seems a lot of players are prone to watching the ball on D, especially Hibbert. He'll lose his guy often and give up the offensive rebound.

At least Hibbert has a reason for it cause he's gonna try to block it.

wintermute
11-10-2012, 07:24 PM
I'm gonna say it until the offseason, but Jarrett Jack is that guy.

Sign me up for more Jack. It would be like having 2 George Hills - well, 1 George Hill and 1 poor man's version, but hey who's counting? :laugh:

aamcguy
11-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I'm gonna say it until the offseason, but Jarrett Jack is that guy.

I agree he would be a great backup PG for us. He was one of my favorite Pacers in the time he was here, and I've always liked his game. Plus, with our offense I think we could be very successful with 3 combo guards. When Lance is out there our ball movement improves dramatically.