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View Full Version : can the laker poach Brian Shaw from us



PacersPride
11-09-2012, 07:50 PM
listening to reports if Phil Jackson were for any reason to not return to coaching Brian Shaws name is already being mentioned among Magic and Stephen A Smith on espn.

the lakers would have to give us a draft pick or something right? what if Phil Jackson wanted Shaw back. i dont get why Magic and espn are mentioning Shaw when he is under contract with the Pacers.

pacer4ever
11-09-2012, 07:56 PM
listening to reports if Phil Jackson were for any reason to not return to coaching Brian Shaws name is already being mentioned among Magic and Stephen A Smith on espn.

the lakers would have to give us a draft pick or something right? what if Phil Jackson wanted Shaw back. i dont get why Magic and espn are mentioning Shaw when he is under contract with the Pacers.

If Mr Simon wanted to be an A hole he could stop it. But anyone who stops a man from getting a promotion is wrong and I doubt the Pacers would stop it. If the Lakers ask for permission to speak with Shaw I would be disappointed if we didnt let them.

Deadshot
11-09-2012, 08:02 PM
This doesn't answer question, but still related to topic:


Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

The Lakers have not reached out to the Pacers about the possibility of hiring associate head coach Brian Shaw, league sources tell Y!

Indiana considers Shaw an important asset, and wouldn't simply let him walk in-season to the Lakers, sources tell Y! So far, no contact

pacer4ever
11-09-2012, 08:05 PM
WoJo just tweeted the Pacers would be a dick and not let him walk mid season. They have nothing really to compensate us they have no draft picks for awhile so I cant really see a trade happen.

I would be pissed if I was Shaw. It's the Pacers right because he is under contract but it's wrong IMO.

Deadshot anyone under contract cant just leave however if they are neing ask to interview for a promotion teams normally don't get in the way of others careers. I mean this isn't Theo Epstien who left for a lateral position going from an assitant coach to HC is a huge job opportunity for Shaw and with a great team.

Deadshot
11-09-2012, 08:15 PM
Yeah I understand I was just posting the tweet here because this thread dealt more with Shaw

31andonly
11-09-2012, 08:16 PM
Well...to be honest. If it was a "normal" job and you were the boss of a company, would you be so nice and let one of your most important employees walk because he can get a better position at one of your main competitors?

cgg
11-09-2012, 08:17 PM
If it was a normal job and you were the boss you probably wouldn't have a choice.

pacer4ever
11-09-2012, 08:31 PM
Well...to be honest. If it was a "normal" job and you were the boss of a company, would you be so nice and let one of your most important employees walk because he can get a better position at one of your main competitors?

Shaw is probablly making around 1m here. At a min he would make 3m as the HC in LA. Yes I would let the employee only if we couldn't offer him same pay and same position.

PacersPride
11-09-2012, 09:02 PM
mr. simon,

pay the man

Ransom
11-09-2012, 09:20 PM
Make them trade Nash for him.

Or maybe a few draft picks?

bunt
11-09-2012, 09:27 PM
If Mr Simon wanted to be an A hole he could stop it. But anyone who stops a man from getting a promotion is wrong and I doubt the Pacers would stop it. If the Lakers ask for permission to speak with Shaw I would be disappointed if we didnt let them.

It's a completely different situation to have an assistant interview for a head coaching position in the offseason versus the middle of the season. Especially a team with the Pacers expectations and aspirations for this season (their current play notwithstanding). That's not how you do business in the NBA.

bunt
11-09-2012, 09:41 PM
Not to mention, the Pacers are 5 games into the season, struggling out of the gate, learning they'll be without their leading scorer for at least 3 months, for a team looking to make noise this year. And you want the Pacers to let their lead assistant just walk? And how should Vogel and the front office fill the void left by Shaw when they're busy with practices, game planning, games, player personnel, etc?

Again, this is a completely different scenario in the offseason when the team can prepare themselves if a coach is hired elsewhere. Letting him just walk mid season is a disservice to the rest of the staff, the players, and the fans.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-09-2012, 09:49 PM
It's a completely different situation to have an assistant interview for a head coaching position in the offseason versus the middle of the season. Especially a team with the Pacers expectations and aspirations for this season (their current play notwithstanding). That's not how you do business in the NBA.
this

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 09:58 PM
They have an asset that I'd trade Shaw for. Why can't we trade an assistant coach for an assistant coach? :chin:

cgg
11-09-2012, 09:58 PM
I think the Lakers will probably look for somebody proven anyway. A rookie head coach doesn't seem to go with their goals.

bunt
11-09-2012, 10:03 PM
I think the Lakers will probably look for somebody proven anyway. A rookie head coach doesn't seem to go with their goals.

I agree. Most likely Phil since he appears to be ready to get back into coaching. Which makes sense: Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau, Kobe/Dwight/Nash/Pau. Ridiculous.

PacersPride
11-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Not to mention, the Pacers are 5 games into the season, struggling out of the gate, learning they'll be without their leading scorer for at least 3 months, for a team looking to make noise this year. And you want the Pacers to let their lead assistant just walk? And how should Vogel and the front office fill the void left by Shaw when they're busy with practices, game planning, games, player personnel, etc?

Again, this is a completely different scenario in the offseason when the team can prepare themselves if a coach is hired elsewhere. Letting him just walk mid season is a disservice to the rest of the staff, the players, and the fans.

excellent post.



They have an asset that I'd trade Shaw for. Why can't we trade an assistant coach for an assistant coach? :chin:

would you stop beating around the bush with this. if its Person just say it.

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 10:52 PM
would you stop beating around the bush with this. if its Person just say it.

Barkley just gave him a great endorsement on NBATV for the Lakers job. Maybe we can trade Vogel and Shaw for Rifleman? They can throw in Bickerstaff if he's needed to make salaries match. Can't figure out how to make this work on RealGM.

Heisenberg
11-09-2012, 10:55 PM
Why're people automatically assuming Shaw would have any interest the way they treated him?

boombaby1987
11-09-2012, 10:57 PM
Why're people automatically assuming Shaw would have any interest the way they treated him?

Being bitter versus turning down the most desirable coaching job in the game are two different animals....

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 10:58 PM
Why're people automatically assuming Shaw would have any interest the way they treated him?

What? They conducted a search, had three finalists, and hired the guy with the most HC experience? If Shaw's upset about that, he needs to grow some thicker skin.

Heisenberg
11-09-2012, 10:58 PM
Being bitter versus turning down the most desirable coaching job in the game are two different animals....

It's not being bitter. It's having firsthand experience of the way their front office works and not liking it.

Derek2k3
11-09-2012, 11:07 PM
What? They conducted a search, had three finalists, and hired the guy with the most HC experience? If Shaw's upset about that, he needs to grow some thicker skin.

Eh, they didn't show any loyalty to a guy that had stuck around and obviously expected to be next in line.

I wouldn't blame him for having hard feelings...but not sure those feelings are strong enough to turn down Nash/Kobe/Pau/Dwight.

ChicagoJ
11-09-2012, 11:17 PM
Eh, they didn't show any loyalty to a guy that had stuck around and obviously expected to be next in line.

I wouldn't blame him for having hard feelings...but not sure those feelings are strong enough to turn down Nash/Kobe/Pau/Dwight.

He wasn't entitled to be "next in line". He still hasn't been hired to be HC of any team, let alone one of the premier spots for all experienced, legit head coaches. Someone will give him a chance at HC, but until then he's an assistant acting like he's entitled to be a HC.

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 05:14 PM
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/11/10/bucher-says-phil-jackson-wants-jim-buss-out-as-de-facto-gm/


...Sources say there is a scenario in which both Jackson and Shaw would be hired, with Shaw as the head coach mentored by Jackson...
Pfft. Yeah right.

wintermute
11-10-2012, 06:17 PM
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2012/11/10/bucher-says-phil-jackson-wants-jim-buss-out-as-de-facto-gm/

Pfft. Yeah right.

Why do you think Shaw to LA is implausible? Shaw's issue in LA was with Jim Buss, who looks like will be sidelined by the return of Shaw's old boss. It seems like a perfect scenario for him actually.

The bigger issue is whether the Pacers would/should let him go. The Pacers normally won't get in the way of an assistant getting promoted elsewhere, but as bunt pointed out it's in the middle of the season. Furthermore, Vogel only has 3 assistants, so Shaw departing would have huge impact on the Pacers.

ChicagoJ
11-10-2012, 06:49 PM
Thus, a trade is in order.

:jester:

Right?

Shaw for Person. Straight up. Then we've got our coach-in-waiting. I'm not ready to run Vogel out of town, but I have doubts that he'll be here longer than three full seasons. Most coaches don't last that long, and I think there is something to that theory. Then we're perfectly set up for the Rifleman to become HC.

Trophy
11-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Based on what Wells is saying, it sounds like Shaw is done with the Lakers. If for any reason he leaves here, it'll more than likely be to take a head coaching position.

HC
11-11-2012, 02:37 PM
For those who would have a problem with Simon not letting Shaw go to LA for nothing, why should he? It makes absolutely no sense to make your team weaker, and one of your competitors stronger at the same time. Also, look at the other side of the situation. Brian Shaw signed a contract to coach for the Indiana Pacers, the man should honor his committment. Of course if it was a normal job you wouldn't have a choice but to let him go, but this is not a normal job. Brian Shaw signed a contract to be here, point blank period. Furthermore Shaw could very well be the coach in waiting here if things go really downhill this season, so for Simon to let Shaw simply walk over there would be a horrible decision.

Magic P
11-11-2012, 02:40 PM
Was looking for this thread but couldn't find it so I posted this in the other thread

Lakers say they're 95% sure Phil Jackson will return as coach
Jackson actually could be in place by Monday, according to league sources, with the Lakers trying to find a way to have Brian Shaw freed up from his coaching duties with the Indiana Pacers so that he can rejoin Jackson in L.A. The former Laker player and assistant coach, long talked about as a potential head coach with the team, is the Pacers’ assistant head coach. To get him out of Indiana, the Lakers will probably need to send the Pacers some sort of compensation.

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1200164#bmb=1

HC
11-11-2012, 02:41 PM
He wasn't entitled to be "next in line". He still hasn't been hired to be HC of any team, let alone one of the premier spots for all experienced, legit head coaches. Someone will give him a chance at HC, but until then he's an assistant acting like he's entitled to be a HC.

Considering Kobe pretty much runs that organization, and given the fact that reportedly Kobe wanted Shaw, I would call it a bit strange that they didn't hire him.

pacer4ever
11-11-2012, 02:43 PM
For those who would have a problem with Simon not letting Shaw go to LA for nothing, why should he? It makes absolutely no sense to make your team weaker, and one of your competitors stronger at the same time. Also, look at the other side of the situation. Brian Shaw signed a contract to coach for the Indiana Pacers, the man should honor his committment. Of course if it was a normal job you wouldn't have a choice but to let him go, but this is not a normal job. Brian Shaw signed a contract to be here, point blank period. Furthermore Shaw could very well be the coach in waiting here if things go really downhill this season, so for Simon to let Shaw simply walk over there would be a horrible decision.

Only way I said I would let him go is if they offered him the HC job. I wouldn't let him make a lateral move to being an AC for Phil. But denying him a promotion if the Lakers wanted him for HC would be wrong IMO. I would take compensation for him but I would find a way to make it work. Denying Shaw a promotion would be wrong IMO.

Cousy47
11-11-2012, 03:28 PM
And yet that's exactly the way the teams treat the players and coaches. Tired of you, got a better offer, you're gone! Loyalty is not a two way street in the business world. Unless Shaw signed a non compete clause in his contract, there is no good reason for the Pacers to stop him. Or maybe there is more in his future here than we know about. I wonder if he would go back as Phil's assistant again?

Sparhawk
11-11-2012, 08:21 PM
And yet that's exactly the way the teams treat the players and coaches. Tired of you, got a better offer, you're gone! Loyalty is not a two way street in the business world. Unless Shaw signed a non compete clause in his contract, there is no good reason for the Pacers to stop him. Or maybe there is more in his future here than we know about. I wonder if he would go back as Phil's assistant again?

Even still, it's hard to enforce non-compete clauses. I agree with you though.

MyFavMartin
11-11-2012, 08:45 PM
He's our lead assistant but I think everybody was surprised when he wasn't hired last summer by any other team. I think I read he had a one year contract with the Pacers, so he might choose to get back at the Lakers by making them bid for his services next summer as the heir to Phil Jackson.

bunt
11-11-2012, 08:59 PM
Only way I said I would let him go is if they offered him the HC job. I wouldn't let him make a lateral move to being an AC for Phil. But denying him a promotion if the Lakers wanted him for HC would be wrong IMO. I would take compensation for him but I would find a way to make it work. Denying Shaw a promotion would be wrong IMO.

Not during the middle of the season, that's not the way these things work. Say the the Pacers let him go to the Lakers and then something happens to Vogel - accident, illness, family tragedy, whatever it may be (look no further than the Colts situation). What happens then? The Pacers screw themselves over just because the Lakers decide to fire their coach 5 games in? Not a chance. In the offseason, sure, because then Vogel and the front office have the time to plan accordingly. You don't screw yourself over during the season just to let a guy get a promotion.

Sandman21
11-11-2012, 09:02 PM
If I were Herb/Donnie/Pritchard, I'd tell the Lakers "Sorry for your damn stupidity in letting your diva players force out your head coach after 5 games, you can talk to Coach Shaw after the season ends."

Eleazar
11-11-2012, 09:13 PM
In the business world you usually are not allowed out of a contract without some form of compensation. In the NBA if a team fires or cuts a coach or player they are still obligated to pay the full contract unless otherwise stated in the contract. So I do not understand why some of you think it is wrong for the Pacers to say no to the Lakers?

Naptown_Seth
11-11-2012, 11:06 PM
If it was a normal job and you were the boss you probably wouldn't have a choice.
You would if there were a contract involved. In my area of work companies have to pay money to hire guys away from other companies all the time.

The Lakers had the option to avoid this by simply given Shaw the opportunity. The Pacers were the nice guys here, they were the ones that told Shaw they wanted him and were willing to put that into a binding contract that Shaw could count on. So they aren't being jerks for expecting the contract to be honored, the Lakers are being jerks for thinking that everyone should just cancel a deal in order to help them out.

Who could say that Shaw's career couldn't leave him as a Pacers head coach instead?

vapacersfan
11-12-2012, 12:19 PM
You would if there were a contract involved. In my area of work companies have to pay money to hire guys away from other companies all the time.

The Lakers had the option to avoid this by simply given Shaw the opportunity. The Pacers were the nice guys here, they were the ones that told Shaw they wanted him and were willing to put that into a binding contract that Shaw could count on. So they aren't being jerks for expecting the contract to be honored, the Lakers are being jerks for thinking that everyone should just cancel a deal in order to help them out.

Who could say that Shaw's career couldn't leave him as a Pacers head coach instead?

This. I remember having to sign a non compete clause for my first job, and that was a low level job.

Though I guess this topic is moot with the latest revelations that PJ will not be coming back

CoolHand
11-12-2012, 12:30 PM
He's our lead assistant but I think everybody was surprised when he wasn't hired last summer by any other team. I think I read he had a one year contract with the Pacers, so he might choose to get back at the Lakers by making them bid for his services next summer as the heir to Phil Jackson.

I could have sworn that he was our "associate head coach", not lead assistant... did something change?

Naptown_Seth
11-12-2012, 11:49 PM
This. I remember having to sign a non compete clause for my first job, and that was a low level job.

Though I guess this topic is moot with the latest revelations that PJ will not be coming back

Or they could fire D'Antoni after giving him a long leash, which per Mike Brown would be about 12 games. ;)

That would REALLY make Shaw want to go back there. :D I'd say the Lakers/Shaw thing looks pretty doubtful given the last few days paired with the departure of Shaw from LA originally.