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cgg
11-07-2012, 09:55 AM
Indiana Pacers (https://www.facebook.com/pacers?ref=stream)


INJURY UPDATE: Danny Granger received an injection Tuesday to treat left patellar tendinosis. Team medical personnel are looking at a recovery time of approximately three months.

http://on.nba.com/PBu3uV

cgg
11-07-2012, 09:56 AM
Crap.

I might have to change my avatar.

Mackey_Rose
11-07-2012, 09:58 AM
Crap.

I might have to change my avatar.

Mr. Obvious alert... 3 months is a long time.

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 09:58 AM
That's it.

12 weeks. Puts him on pace to return for the last month of the season.

**** me.

Hicks
11-07-2012, 09:58 AM
Yikes

IndyJones
11-07-2012, 09:58 AM
3 months? :-o

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 09:58 AM
Well crap....

3 more months of this. We may be in a little trouble.

BRushWithDeath
11-07-2012, 09:59 AM
It's a good thing the East sucks.

Eleazar
11-07-2012, 10:00 AM
Now we get to see how this team learns and grows without Danny.

xtacy
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
how is next year's draft?

rock747
11-07-2012, 10:04 AM
Some kind of positive to this: The rest of the team improves, and we get a higher draft pick this off season.

Big Negative: This was supposed to be the season we won the fans back...

ColeTheMole
11-07-2012, 10:05 AM
Sad, all of us were so excited coming into this season.

Hicks
11-07-2012, 10:05 AM
Someone should probably update the thread title to reflect that Danny is out for three months. It's vague right now.

boombaby1987
11-07-2012, 10:05 AM
How does Knee Pain he can play through lead to being out 3 months?

Naptown_Seth
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Danny 3P% last 4 seasons:
40.4
36.1
38.6
38.1

Current Pacers 3P%
27.8

Highest 3P% of the 4 guys taking at least 3.5 per game - PG with 33%.

So now we have to count on Lance taking 5 a game at 44% to save the day? Teams are literally going to do the Bobcats lane stuff zone every single night. Without shooters this team is in huge trouble.

I wasn't worried till I saw the last 2 games and how many wide open jumpers guys were missing. This is what ended up biting the 61 win team, the Pistons just packed down on JO, Ron and Al going to the post/lane and other than Reggie there was no one to keep them honest.

Either Roy needs to get even tougher or someone needs to start making those outside shots.

cgg
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
OMG it all makes sense. Zeller is #1 on mock drafts. It's clearly our time to miss the playoffs by one game and win the lottery to draft our hometown player! Woohoo!


:-p

BRushWithDeath
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Even if Danny Granger were to miss the entire season, which actually sounds plausible unfortunately, the Pacers are still a playoff team.

There just aren't enough decent teams in the East to threaten that.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Just an injection and out for 3 months? wtf?

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 10:08 AM
Danny 3P% last 4 seasons:
40.4
36.1
38.6
38.1

Current Pacers 3P%
27.8

Highest 3P% of the 4 guys taking at least 3.5 per game - PG with 33%.

So now we have to count on Lance taking 5 a game at 44% to save the day? Teams are literally going to do the Bobcats lane stuff zone every single night. Without shooters this team is in huge trouble.

I wasn't worried till I saw the last 2 games and how many wide open jumpers guys were missing. This is what ended up biting the 61 win team, the Pistons just packed down on JO, Ron and Al going to the post/lane and other than Reggie there was no one to keep them honest.

Either Roy needs to get even tougher or someone needs to start making those outside shots.


This.

It's really time for Lance and Paul George to step up on the wings, and Roy to step up inside. We HAVE to make teams pay from the outside.

Goyle
11-07-2012, 10:09 AM
If this means 3 months of Sam Young in the starting line up... :-o

Eleazar
11-07-2012, 10:11 AM
OMG it all makes sense. Zeller is #1 on mock drafts. It's clearly our time to miss the playoffs by one game and win the lottery to draft our hometown player! Woohoo!


:-p

Right now I think this team could use Watford more than Zeller.

cgg
11-07-2012, 10:13 AM
Right now I think this team could use Watford more than Zeller.

I have no idea about the draft. I just noticed him in a mock draft at #1 a while ago.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
11-07-2012, 10:16 AM
If this means 3 months of Sam Young in the starting line up... :-o

Three months and the only treatment is an injection? Not that it's our business, but we aren't being told the whole story. I officially do not look for him to return until the end of the season if at all.

Young is no replacement. I'm hoping he gets cut and the team brings in someone who can shoot a little.

Roaming Gnome
11-07-2012, 10:17 AM
...So who comes back first, Danny or D. Rose? The Central Division just became WIDE OPEN.

duke dynamite
11-07-2012, 10:17 AM
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090602051226/uncyclopedia/images/e/e9/Homer_screaming.gif

Steagles
11-07-2012, 10:18 AM
3 Months? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK ME.

MikeDC
11-07-2012, 10:20 AM
How does Knee Pain he can play through lead to being out 3 months?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinosis


Tendinosis, sometimes called chronic tendinitis, tendinosus, chronic tendinopathy, or chronic tendon injury, is damage to a tendon at a cellular level (the suffix "osis" implies a pathology of chronic degeneration without inflammation). It is thought to be caused by microtears in the connective tissue in and around the tendon, leading to an increase in tendon repair cells. This may lead to reduced tensile strength, thus increasing the chance of tendon rupture. Tendinosis is often misdiagnosed as tendinitis due to the limited understanding of tendinopathies by the medical community.[1] Classical characteristics of "tendinosis" include degenerative changes in the collagenous matrix, hypercellularity, hypervascularity, and a lack of inflammatory cells which has challenged the original misnomer "tendinitis".[2]

Jeez. This is just.... terrible.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 10:30 AM
Procedure performed by Dr. James Andrews. Baseball fans know that name...

****. ****. **** **** ****.

rock747
11-07-2012, 10:31 AM
It's time to put all our eggs in Paul George's basket...

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 10:31 AM
How does Knee Pain he can play through lead to being out 3 months?


Just an injection and out for 3 months? wtf?

It isn't the injection, its the inflamed tendon that's causing the issue. Walking/running/jumping all aggravate the injury, so they have to shelve him and go through a strict rehab process in order to strengthen other muscles to take the strain off of his tendon.

xtacy
11-07-2012, 10:31 AM
am i the only one thinking that either our medical staff ****ed up or we are not getting the full story? was the medical staff too late to understand the situation when he was playing with pain? an injury this serious can't come out of nowhere, can it?

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 10:33 AM
am i the only one thinking that either our medical staff ****ed up or we are not getting the full story? was the medical staff too late to understand the situation when he was playing with pain? an injury this serious can't come out of nowhere, can it?

look at the track record of our med staff. they're great. injuries happen.

but by all means, if anyone stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...

pacer4ever
11-07-2012, 10:35 AM
how is next year's draft?

It's growing on me as I am seeing the new freshmen come back to me in a month and I can give a better assessment. If we suck bad enough to get Tony Mitchell I would be so happy and sad I hate losing but that kid will be special IMO. He is as good of leaper as Gerald Green and actually knows how to play basketball and using his leaping ability. I just hope he keeps improving. He would be a perfect 4 for the Pacers IMO.

Trader Joe
11-07-2012, 10:36 AM
:suicide:

tfarks
11-07-2012, 10:36 AM
This is going to be a tough season to watch. Just wait until George Hill has to sit for a while too.

xtacy
11-07-2012, 10:38 AM
It's growing on me as I am seeing the new freshmen come back to me in a month and I can give a better assessment. If we suck bad enough to get Tony Mitchell I would be so happy and sad I hate losing but that kid will be special IMO. He is as good of leaper as Gerald Green and actually knows how to play basketball and using his leaping ability. I just hope he keeps improving. He would be a perfect 4 for the Pacers IMO.

thanks.

we were talking about ECF a week ago. the things we talk about now make me sad beyond belief.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 10:40 AM
We'll really see what coach Vogel is made of now.

pacerfaninga
11-07-2012, 10:40 AM
Granger's always been a tough player. Remember the game against Boston shortly after signing his $60 million dollar contract where he lost his front teeth? Ran off the court and came right back to shoot the free throws. It is killing him to sit on the bench and see this team struggle without him and I have no doubt that he would be out there if he felt like he could help and not hinder the team. Twelve weeks puts him back around 1/22. I know we are all a little concerned right now but I think Vogel putting Green back with the second unit will be a good thing and insertinf Young in the starting lineup will allow us to develop more of an inside-out game rather than dribble down, one pass and a bad jumper. Hibbert needs to assert himself offensively and that will free up our perimeter players for more drives to the basket.

Foul on Smits
11-07-2012, 10:40 AM
We're seriously about to see what Paul George is made of. Pretty tough to put all of this on him at such an early stage of his career, but I dont think he has a choice now.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 10:42 AM
...So who comes back first, Danny or D. Rose? The Central Division just became WIDE OPEN.

I think Rose comes back before Danny, Rose is already running and doing things.

Doddage
11-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I'm sure we'll continue to start Young, but we really should start Lance. No reason not to at this point, and the first unit could use his playmaking.

tfarks
11-07-2012, 10:46 AM
If things go the right way, as in Hill's injury not worsening or other injuries popping up, this is not a season killer if Granger can actually return. Sure they win less games, but if Granger makes it back before playoff time, and the rest of them team has kept things afloat (they should), then they can deal some damage.

Hibbert really needs to be worth his max contract, regardless of what's going on around him. And Paul George has to take that step forward offensively. West and Hill I'm not worried about, everyone else has a whole lot of work to do.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 10:46 AM
I think Rose comes back before Danny, Rose is already running and doing things.

ACL injuries are a lot tougher to come back from. 9-12 MONTH process. Plus a player like Rose who's mostly athleticism, it's going to be hard for him to adjust to that as well.

He may come back sooner, but if I were the Bulls I'd just wait till next season to make sure he's completely 100%.

Pacers4Life
11-07-2012, 10:46 AM
I refuse to start Sam Young anymore. It was a laughable idea to begin with. Lance needs to **** or get off the pot as our starting 2 guard, George Hill technically backs him up. Paul needs to move to the 3 with gerald greene as his backup... and sam young needs to stay on the bench where he can't hurt us too bad. Tighten up the rotation, batten down the hatches, and prepare for a long and bloody war. We can still win it (the war, not an NBA championship... currently).

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 10:48 AM
Do the Pacers even have pieces to make a trade for an scorer or something? man if they could only be under the cap :kickcan:

diamonddave00
11-07-2012, 10:48 AM
As someone who had had surgery on my knees 13 weeks rehab is not that unusual , but odd part is that long is usually after a surgical procedure. I think Danny had a scope and Pacers are not reporting it. Yes I think they are hiding something from fans and media.

This is eerily taking on a Mike Dunleavy simliarity.

ChicagoJ
11-07-2012, 10:50 AM
Its like some of you guys have never experienced tendonitiis.

I'm not surprised by the diagnosis, treatment, or prognosis. I'm more surprised at the reactions here.

The primary cure for swelling in the tendons is rest, and a lot of it. Surgery won't fix inflamed tendons. It could help with the source of the problem, or it could remove scar tissue, but the swelling takes about as long to calm down as it took to get unbearable in the first place. Its a gradual injury with gradual healing.

Reality is that he's probably needed to take this kind of time off for a while, but he's gutted it out as long as he could until no other choice remained. That would be similar to my experience when I finally had to redshirt one of my college track seasons after years of competing at 90%, then 80%, then 70% as the dull ache gnawed away at explosiveness. For what its worth, 20 years later and I still end up in physcial therapy or are forced to take 6-8 weeks off of running due to my knee tendonitiis which returns every couple of years.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 10:51 AM
ACL injuries are a lot tougher to come back from. 9-12 MONTH process. Plus a player like Rose who's mostly athleticism, it's going to be hard for him to adjust to that as well.

He may come back sooner, but if I were the Bulls I'd just wait till next season to make sure he's completely 100%.

Well it only took Adrian Peterson few months to get back so there is a chance, I agree with you if I was the Bulls I tank this year so I can find a Robin for Rose through the draft.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 10:55 AM
Well it only took Adrian Peterson few months to get back so there is a chance, I agree with you if I was the Bulls I tank this year so I can find a Robin for Rose through the draft.

True, but football is a bit of a different sport. Yes there's a lot of cutting in both sports, but there's a LOT more jumping, stopping, going, quick reactions, quick change of direction in basketball. Also, in football, as a RB you play about 1/2 of the game, and then get a week off to rest. In basketball you've got 32-38 minutes, playing offense and defense. And then you either have back-to-backs, or just one day off.

I agree with you though, if the Bulls can get a top 15 pick, they have a chance to get another wing OR athletic big on that team that if Rose can ever come back to being as good as he was, they'd be in great shape.

Handoverfist
11-07-2012, 10:57 AM
Jeff Taylor or Draymond Green would come in handy right about now.

MillerTime
11-07-2012, 10:57 AM
We reallt need our scorers to step up. This is PG's time to prove what he can do.

We need Hill, PG and West to step up the scorer

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 10:58 AM
Well it only took Adrian Peterson few months to get back so there is a chance, I agree with you if I was the Bulls I tank this year so I can find a Robin for Rose through the draft.

I imagine some of that depends on how open the Central is a the end of the season.

Regarding the response to this news, it'll be interesting to see who takes the primary scoring load. I say make David the focal point of the offense, followed by Hill, then Hibbert, and finally Paul.

Speed
11-07-2012, 11:02 AM
My concerns....

They are a David West or George Hill injury away from not making the playoffs. I fear now Roy will think he has to be dominant and starts to spiral into that whole deal, which is very concerning. Vogel already seems to out of his comfort zone when dealing with being a front runner and not a cheerleader type leader. Hopefully this gives guys a chance to grow. I think the decision to replace DC with the worse defensive point guard in the league doesn't help. Mahinmi reverting back to a fringe rotation player instead of the guy we saw in preseason, Gerald Green looking nervous and forgetting simple basketball plays.

My point is there are alot of things working against them right now. Danny being out is big, bigger than I ever imagined, but its not just that.

The one thing I have faith in is that David West is a natural leader and will keep this group tied together. I also think George Hill is mentally tough and not afraid to play under adverse circumstances. Those two things may keep them afloat, but they have to weather this ridiculously tough road schedule first. It may not be pretty, but I think they will find out some things about some players.

We need guys to bond together here in the next few weeks and get that us against the world vibe. Plus, we need a lightbulb to go on a little quicker for PG and others sooner than you'd expect. I have no idea how this turns out.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:02 AM
PG really wants to make All Defense then now's the time. That's a far more realistic way for us to win the Central than expecting him (or anyone) to replace Danny's scoring.

More than anything it's time for Roy to earn his money.

cgg
11-07-2012, 11:03 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)


Andrews is well known for performing orthopedic surgery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_surgery) on high-profile athletes from a wide array of sports. He created the HealthSouth Sports Medicine Council and was the driving force behind the successful Go For It! Roadshow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_For_It!_Roadshow). He was also an athlete himself, winning a Southeastern Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Conference) Championship in polevaulting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polevaulting) at Louisiana State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_State_University). Andrews was the subject of an ESPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESPN).com article that praised his talents and listed some of his notable clients. One excerpt from the magazine stated that "[Andrews] is the alpha doc at the center of a sports-medicine network that extends well beyond doctors. Every athletic trainer, physical therapist, strength-and-conditioning coach in the land seems to have Andrews' cell phone number".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-3) "As far as I know he's like the Jay-Z of the rap world. He's the best. He's smooth. He's smooth as butter." remarked Kevin Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Smith_(running_back)), Lions running back, on surgeon Dr. James Andrews who performed his ACL reconstruction.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-4) He consulted on Tom Brady (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brady) after his third knee surgery, Brett Favre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre) with his shoulder surgery,[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-5) and most recently worked with Albert Pujols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pujols) surgery on his right elbow. He also did a surgical repair of New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees)'s throwing shoulder when he sustained a 360 tear of the labrum and additional rotator cuff damage.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-6) He has also worked with professional wrestlers such as Shawn Michaels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Michaels), Triple H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_H), John Cena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Cena), Edge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_(wrestler)) and Randy Orton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Orton). He also consulted U.S. women's national soccer team goalkeeper Hope Solo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Solo) on her major shoulder surgery. Andrews serves as the team doctor for Alabama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_Crimson_Tide_football), Auburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Tigers_football), and the NFL's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL) Washington Redskins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins).[8]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-7)Andrews' patients also include Michael Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan), Jack Nicklaus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Nicklaus), Emmitt Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmitt_Smith), Wyatt Stewart, IV, John Smoltz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smoltz), Troy Aikman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Aikman), Charles Barkley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Barkley), Roger Clemens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clemens), Andrei Markov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Markov_(ice_hockey)),Bo Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Jackson), Ryan Broyles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Broyles), Adrian Peterson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Peterson), Matthew Ober and Michael Morse among others.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)#cite_note-8)

Speed
11-07-2012, 11:04 AM
Barbosa, DC, DJones, and Lou would come in handy right now, too.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:06 AM
Croshere, Bender, JO, Foster, Reggie, Smits, Person, Harrington, Tinsley, Jackson, Best, would come in handy right now.

C'mon.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 11:07 AM
Barbosa, DC, DJones, and Lou would come in handy right now, too.

I 100% agree with this.

Steagles
11-07-2012, 11:10 AM
We are going to see what Lance, yes, Lance is made of. After the Sam Young experiment fails miserably, again, Lance should start and have PG slide back to 3.

Larry Staverman
11-07-2012, 11:15 AM
Look at this point worrying about who we don't have is pointless. The roster is set.

The Danny Granger lifeline is gone for now and each player is going to have to nut up and Vogel is going to have to figure out
how to get the offense going. He says he is going to simplify to a fewer plays and work on execution. It may take a few games
to adjust but we have enough talent to get it done.

As long as Granger comes back around the all star break and is healthy there is time to get it together at full strength and be
playing their best ball at the end of the season like last year.

rock747
11-07-2012, 11:16 AM
Barbosa, DC, DJones, and Lou would come in handy right now, too.

Yep. It would be very nice to have some solid, experienced veterans off the bench to help fill in. We have sam young and Gerald Green to cover.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Barbosa, DC, DJones, and Lou would come in handy right now, too.

Cuz Barbosa, Jones or Lou would be able to alleviate the problems that we are currently having?

Dc would definitely help, I agree 100%.

But Barbosa shooting 38% is no different than Green shooting 38%. Jones' physical D is no different than Young playing physical D. And as bad as Mahinmi has played, his 4pts and 5 boards are still better than Lou's undersized 2pts and 3rebs.

Outside of DC, I don't think any of the guys we traded would be any type of answer for what's going on with this team right now. ESP with Danny being out.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Yeah. Dahntay Jones and Lou Amundson are guys I want trying to replace 20+ points a night.

Jon Theodore
11-07-2012, 11:19 AM
Wow, Larry Bird leaves and this team implodes. Obviously Bird leaving has nothing to do with Grangers injury..but it just seems like this team is heading nowhere fast. Fans will be tuning out very quickly on this team without some serious wins against good teams and I just don't see it. Also, can the Pacers amnesty Roy Hibbert?

cgg
11-07-2012, 11:20 AM
If we're going to be significantly better than .500 then we're going to need to see something from Lance I think.

cgg
11-07-2012, 11:21 AM
Wow, Larry Bird leaves and this team implodes. Obviously Bird leaving has nothing to do with Grangers injury..but it just seems like this team is heading nowhere fast. Fans will be tuning out very quickly on this team without some serious wins against good teams and I just don't see it. Also, can the Pacers amnesty Roy Hibbert?

1) are you on crack?
2) you can't amnesy people you signed after the new cba
3) no, they amnestied posey

Jon Theodore
11-07-2012, 11:22 AM
This is probably a blessing in disguise. There will be no reason to pay Paul George tons of money if he can not produce some serious results in Grangers absence. At least now we get to really see what our young guys can do.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 11:23 AM
Cuz Barbosa, Jones or Lou would be able to alleviate the problems that we are currently having?

Dc would definitely help, I agree 100%.

But Barbosa shooting 38% is no different than Green shooting 38%. Jones' physical D is no different than Young playing physical D. And as bad as Mahinmi has played, his 4pts and 5 boards are still better than Lou's undersized 2pts and 3rebs.

Outside of DC, I don't think any of the guys we traded would be any type of answer for what's going on with this team right now. ESP with Danny being out.

The problem is not about the numbers, the issue is that with the previous guys you knew got you had, with this new guys you don't know s***, right now the only bench hopes that we have are Lance/Tyler and they were here last year.

Jon Theodore
11-07-2012, 11:23 AM
Yes I am on crack and thank you for answering my question so quickly. I figured there was some rules against it.

Unclebuck
11-07-2012, 11:24 AM
As I was reading the press release and I read "3", I figured that would be followed with the word weeks, not months.

3 months seems rather extreme for this type of thing.

PacersHomer
11-07-2012, 11:26 AM
lol at the bring back Barbosa and Amundson comments. Exactly what this team doesn't need. Talk about re-writing history.

We need a solid shooter. We obviously won't find another Granger but someone who can just come off the bench and get hot from 3. George needs to step his defense up, Stephenson and Green need to make better decisions, and Hibbert needs to sack up big time. This could be an opportunity for great growth for the bench players and young players, or it could demoralize and end the season. It's up to them.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:26 AM
As I was reading the press release and I read "3", I figured that would be followed with the word weeks, not months.

3 months seems rather extreme for this type of thing.Same. 3 months seems pretty damn drastic for an injection. Either it's not the whole story or it's "full recovery" in 3 months with him playing before.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 11:29 AM
The problem is not about the numbers, the issue is that with the previous guys you knew got you had, with this new guys you don't know s***, right now the only bench hopes that we have are Lance/Tyler and they were here last year.

I look at it from the other end...you don't know what we have yet because it's only been 4 games. If they're playing this bad after 40 games, then we have some problems.

What we know after 4 games is that even though these guys have played about as bad as they possibly can, (with Green showing some signs of coming out of it) they still have been able to replace the production that the other guys provided. It's only been 4 games with the 4 new bench players, and each have shown to be better than what they've shown. If they improve--even a little (or if you're Augustine, A LOT) then our bench is in good shape.

Hicks
11-07-2012, 11:29 AM
Procedure performed by Dr. James Andrews. Baseball fans know that name...

****. ****. **** **** ****.

I'm not a baseball fan. What does it mean?

Trophy
11-07-2012, 11:29 AM
This team is still solid to position itself in a respectable spot in the East. Definitely not as high and at the elite level like it could've which really blows. It's a lot of guys time to shine on this team.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm not a baseball fan. What does it mean?

He's a world class surgeon, he's the sports surgeon to the stars, Jordan of surgeons. You don't see him for an "injection."

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm not a baseball fan. What does it mean?

That this is something serious and they had the best of the best look at the injury.

Trader Joe
11-07-2012, 11:32 AM
How many of you who are saying this is extreme have ever recovered from this sort of thing or are a medical professional? Any of you? I don't mean to be a jerk, but as someone who has actually hurt their knee and has dealt with the after effects of it (which are pretty much always there in my experience so far) 3 months doesn't seem crazy at all for a pro bball player.

cinotimz
11-07-2012, 11:38 AM
Boy, with this news it sure is a good thing the Pacers went out and really strengthened their bench this past offseason...:rolleyes:

Naptown_Seth
11-07-2012, 11:39 AM
Um...didn't we draft a shooter?

If you really need spacing, far more than you need to avoid other issues like rookie mistakes or awareness errors at either end, then it's time to let Orlando take some jumpers.


Plus as much as I'm concerned with the shooting, it is feasible that Young hit 34% (2nd season), Paul hit 38% (he just did), DJ hit 34% (his career is 37%), and Green to hit 37-38% (he hit 39% last year). They aren't making the shots, but they are getting shots that they've all made in the past at a much better rate.


You don't need Barbosa or DJones, you need JAMES Jones here. They never should have let his shooting go. But that's spilled milk.

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:42 AM
pretty sure Kapono's a free agent. no clue if he's healthy.

I have enough vacation time to take a 10 day.

ChicagoJ
11-07-2012, 11:45 AM
Same. 3 months seems pretty damn drastic for an injection. Either it's not the whole story or it's "full recovery" in 3 months with him playing before.

Its not the injection, its the tendonitiis. The injection has nothing to do with the timing, that's just the procedure used.

I'm guessing three months is a back-on-the-court date, not a return-to-practice date. Because I've heard 6-8 weeks of rest many, many times over the years for knee tendonitiis, and then a month to get strength back in the knee and to get in shape seems about right.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 11:51 AM
I look at it from the other end...you don't know what we have yet because it's only been 4 games. If they're playing this bad after 40 games, then we have some problems.

What we know after 4 games is that even though these guys have played about as bad as they possibly can, (with Green showing some signs of coming out of it) they still have been able to replace the production that the other guys provided. It's only been 4 games with the 4 new bench players, and each have shown to be better than what they've shown. If they improve--even a little (or if you're Augustine, A LOT) then our bench is in good shape.

Maybe you don't know what he have but I do, is not like we are talking about some rookies here, I've seen this guys play for a long time.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 11:53 AM
He's a world class surgeon, he's the sports surgeon to the stars, Jordan of surgeons. You don't see him for an "injection."

Isn't he the one that performed surgeries on Tmac, Broy and other players?

Heisenberg
11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
Isn't he the one that performed surgeries on Tmac, Broy and other players?
Don't know about TMac but I do think he's the guy that did Roy's.

Justin Tyme
11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
lol at the bring back Barbosa and Amundson comments. Exactly what this team doesn't need. Talk about re-writing history.

We need a solid shooter. We obviously won't find another Granger but someone who can just come off the bench and get hot from 3. George needs to step his defense up, Stephenson and Green need to make better decisions, and Hibbert needs to sack up big time. This could be an opportunity for great growth for the bench players and young players, or it could demoralize and end the season. It's up to them.




To those that have wanted to trade Granger while his value was high, I must say your opinion is looking pretty good right now. I wasn't in that camp, but I wanted Wilson Chandler in the worse way when he came back mid season last year from China. I advocated getting him as Granger's b/u and future replacement.

The Nuggets re-signed him for an average of 6.5 mil for 4 years. As a former starter, he's a reserve behind Gallinari. I'd hope now the Pacers would be on the phone trying to make a trade to get him! I'd love to see him in a Pacers uni.

dgranger33
11-07-2012, 11:56 AM
People are panicking way too much. It's only been 4 games. Even the Heat have lost a game. It's too early to panic.

xtacy
11-07-2012, 12:02 PM
People are panicking way too much. It's only been 4 games. Even the Heat have lost a game. It's too early to panic.

wrong thread maybe?

docpaul
11-07-2012, 12:02 PM
Man, talk about the sky is falling. :)

Look, not having Granger is a big loss, of course.

But it's not clear why people are jumping to conclusions that Granger had surgery, that things are being hidden from the fans, etc.

He went to a renowned orthopedic surgeon, and they decided to treat his injury conservatively, because it's freaking tendonosis. Not tendonitis. This means he's had chronic patellar tendon injury, and got some sort of Vitamin E injection to stimulate more rapid redevelopment of the tendon. When you have chronic tendonitis, you need to rest. Period.

I know that the team has gotten off to a very sluggish shooting start. However, there's no question that George has the capacity to be that scorer. Will he step up? Seems like a fun thing to watch. From my vantage point, this is just accelerating the very natural process of player refresh that was inevitable anyways. Granger's contract is coming closer to it's conclusion, and so we needed to figure out the next step anyways. Green has also showed the ability to be a scorer.

I can see nervous mode after 10-15 games... not quite yet.

Today's information basically is a direct message to Paul George: "time to put on your big boy pants". :)

Speed
11-07-2012, 12:03 PM
Lou gives you energy toughness, easy garbage buckets. DC is better than Augustine really all around. Barbosa is exactly what you need with instant offense, easy transition buckets (both ways), D Jones is way more physical/savvy defensively than Young so far. I mean they are better, thats really it.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Maybe you don't know what he have but I do, is not like we are talking about some rookies here, I've seen this guys play for a long time.

A long time? None of these guys have even hit their 27th bday yet. Mahinmi was a key player on the Mavs championship team, DJ has been a double figure scorer nd 4-6 assists per game guy, nd Green put up decent numbers on a bad team (the sane way Barbosa did when on Toronto--long after his Brazillisn blur days in PHX)

They aren't stars nd prob not even starters but to act like they've been really bad players their entire career is just not correct.

BRushWithDeath
11-07-2012, 12:06 PM
I know that the team has gotten off to a very sluggish shooting start. However, there's no question that George has the capacity to be that scorer. Will he step up? Seems like a fun thing to watch. From my vantage point, this is just accelerating the very natural process of player refresh that was inevitable anyways. Granger's contract is coming closer to it's conclusion, and so we needed to figure out the next step anyways. Green has also showed the ability to be a scorer.

I'd say there absolutely is a question about whether or not George has the capacity to be that scorer.

Sparhawk
11-07-2012, 12:06 PM
In the short run this is bad, but in the long run it could be very beneficial. Now all we need is for PG, Hill, Hibbs, Lance and Green to step up. But mainly PG and Hibbs to step it up 100 fold.

docpaul
11-07-2012, 12:10 PM
I'd say there absolutely is a question about whether or not George has the capacity to be that scorer.

You took what I said into a different context. He is very capable. That goes without saying. Whether he lives up to that now is an open question.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/fresno-state/paul-george

As Brandon Rush said to me last year, the only question around Paul George is whether he has the mental fortitude and "alpha dog" mentality to be elite. I think we're about to find out.

QuickRelease
11-07-2012, 12:10 PM
lol at the bring back Barbosa and Amundson comments. Exactly what this team doesn't need. Talk about re-writing history.

We need a solid shooter. We obviously won't find another Granger but someone who can just come off the bench and get hot from 3. George needs to step his defense up, Stephenson and Green need to make better decisions, and Hibbert needs to sack up big time. This could be an opportunity for great growth for the bench players and young players, or it could demoralize and end the season. It's up to them.Michael Redd anybody?

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 12:10 PM
To those that have wanted to trade Granger while his value was high, I must say your opinion is looking pretty good right now. I wasn't in that camp, but I wanted Wilson Chandler in the worse way when he came back mid season last year from China. I advocated getting him as Granger's b/u and future replacement.

The Nuggets re-signed him for an average of 6.5 mil for 4 years. As a former starter, he's a reserve behind Gallinari. I'd hope now the Pacers would be on the phone trying to make a trade to get him! I'd love to see him in a Pacers uni.

:wave: I was one of them, look I don't think you need to be "Miss Cleo" to know that Danny's knee was going to be an issue, he has been having issues in his knee for a long time, I can tell you that once again the Pacers dropped the ball by keeping a player for too long until his value is nothing.

Phree Refill
11-07-2012, 12:10 PM
Now all we need is for PG, Hill, Hibbs, Lance and Green to step up.

Yeah. All we need is 5 players to simultaneously step up all of their games and then maintain that level for over 3/4 of the season. That's all.

Sparhawk
11-07-2012, 12:11 PM
I'm guessing he'll be back after the all-star break.

Sookie
11-07-2012, 12:12 PM
I think we should start DJ, with Hill, PG, West and Roy.

Hill is one of our best players when he's played in his position. We've got to let him do his scoring and defending thing. We can increase Lance's time at the 2, and even give Baby Hans some minutes.

But I think moving Hill to the 2, where he can move without the ball and score, would be the best thing to do.

Sparhawk
11-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Yeah. All we need is 5 players to simultaneously step up all of their games and then maintain that level for over 3/4 of the season. That's all.

I doubt they'll be consistent, but those are the main 5 in my opinion that we simply need more from. Everyone needs to pitch in, but we aren't going to win games with just bench players stepping up.

In the 4 games I've seen, no one is really stepping up and saying I got this. You can see it when players take shots. They are hesitant. Some of these guys are really unsure of themselves.

Sparhawk
11-07-2012, 12:14 PM
I think we should start DJ, with Hill, PG, West and Roy.

Hill is one of our best players when he's played out his position. We've got to let him do his scoring and defending thing. We can increase Lance's time at the 2, and even give Baby Hans some minutes.

But I think moving Hill to the 2, where he can move without the ball and score, would be the best thing to do.

That or Lance at the 2 and PG sliding over. I think it's apparent that Young and Green shouldn't be starting.

picasso
11-07-2012, 12:15 PM
lol at the bring back Barbosa and Amundson comments. Exactly what this team doesn't need. Talk about re-writing history.

We need a solid shooter. We obviously won't find another Granger but someone who can just come off the bench and get hot from 3. George needs to step his defense up, Stephenson and Green need to make better decisions, and Hibbert needs to sack up big time. This could be an opportunity for great growth for the bench players and young players, or it could demoralize and end the season. It's up to them.




Paul Georges D prior to Sunday Defensive Rating was at 88.. That is GOAT status, I don't know how he's back up to 98.. His D on manu was ferocious.
He shut him down, Blocked the crap out of Green..

We are panicking way too early. We have had one home game and 3 road games, Everybody needs to chill. We'll be fine.
Why all the hate all of a sudden is focused on Frank? What did he do that year in a half that does not warrant him a break?
After all he led us to the playoffs after we were toasted with JOB, Gave us the 3rd seed after a full season. Now we want him
gone after 4 games???????? Do the Celtics want Doc gone as well?????

Makes zero sense, Who was coaching the team under Frank? How has he not shown that he could lead this team. The team is just playing sloppy.
Cut them some slack. This is why Success as a franchise is so poisonous, Now that we have high standards after making
the playoffs all of a sudden we are a power house team? I mean the Thunder are 2-2 as well.

To the people that wanted DC, Lou, Barbosa and Dhante! It's just too early. Some of you forget how bad DC was at times, How
Imcopentant he was at passing the ball. He simply didn't have what it took to run our offense. I mean how soon do we all forget??
How bad Lou was and his 5-8 missed dunks per game. How every time Lou shot the ball we all cringed. I applaud the team
for making a gamble this offseason. We would not have grown out them, We really would have been a treadmill team with
those players aboard. Boy is Leandro lighting the world on fire with the Celtics. On paper the additions we made>>>>
last years players. I feel very confident in us making the playoffs. We'll catch our groove soon. It's a 82 game season people
relax. You can't hit the abort button and break the team up after 4 games. We'll have a good feel for this team once
were close to the All-Star break. We are missing our best player and were at .500 I'll take that to bank all day.
If anything this is a great lesson for you get rid of Danny cult leaders, The man means too much for this organiztion.
He and Dwest are the only ones in the team you know can create for themselves. Once Danny comes back!
Paul and Green urgency of scoring should vanquish, Making them play their own game. We all have to come to the realization
that Paul George at this state cannot and will not lead the team in scoring, It's just not his mindset. It's in the Nature of the
beast.... Paul shies away from the ball, That's why Danny is so good... The dude has a killer alpha dawg mentality. To me the whole
2-2 ordeal isn't huge. But the way Paul is playing is just shocking. I mean he starts off the 1st half great then completely goes MIA in the
second half. That is not franchise esque! His tendencies are just shoccccccking, he isn't attacking the Rim and is shooting contested shots.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 12:16 PM
A long time? None of these guys have even hit their 27th bday yet. Mahinmi was a key player on the Mavs championship team, DJ has been a double figure scorer nd 4-6 assists per game guy, nd Green put up decent numbers on a bad team (the sane way Barbosa did when on Toronto--long after his Brazillisn blur days in PHX)

They aren't stars nd prob not even starters but to act like they've been really bad players their entire career is just not correct.

Mahinmi has five years in the NBA, Green was drafted 5 years ago, DJ has been the starting point guard of an NBA team, Young has been in the NBA for a while, we are not talking about rookies or players with huge potentials here, they have been the same players they are right now for a long time.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Yeah. All we need is 5 players to simultaneously step up all of their games and then maintain that level for over 3/4 of the season. That's all.

:spitout: Exactly.

Justin Tyme
11-07-2012, 12:19 PM
People are panicking way too much. It's only been 4 games. Even the Heat have lost a game. It's too early to panic.


If the Pacers HAD the players the Heat does, no one would be complaining about losing ONE game. The Pacers DON'T have the Heat players, and they could just as easily be 0-4 instead of 2-2.

Tonights game should be interesting to say the least. Lets see how the team plays against the Hawks, and who shows up and who doesn't. I'm personally not in the camp that Granger's injury is why the Pacers are moving around the court like a blind man, and playing poorly against poor teams.


I understand, not happy though, the shellacing the Pacers took against the Spurs. The Spurs are a premier team. Lets see if the Pacers come to meet the challange of the Hawks.

pacergod2
11-07-2012, 12:19 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

BRushWithDeath
11-07-2012, 12:22 PM
You took what I said into a different context. He is very capable. That goes without saying. Whether he lives up to that now is an open question.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/fresno-state/paul-george

As Brandon Rush said to me last year, the only question around Paul George is whether he has the mental fortitude and "alpha dog" mentality to be elite. I think we're about to find out.

I haven't seen the same elite offensive potential everyone else apparently sees. I don't think his offensive capability goes without question in any sense.

I see a guy with good size for the position who is a decent catch and shoot guy but not much else on that end of the floor. For a guy with his size and athleticsm, he's a relatively poor finisher around the basketball. Despite his summer tutoring, he still looks like a really poor ball handler. He doesn't move very well without the ball. He seems to be working a bit on his post game but hasn't really developed it any way. He has not shown an ability to get his own shot with ease.

And I'm not sure a guy scoring 16-18 ppg as the lead option on a bad team in the WAC proves that one has huge offensive potential.

ChicagoJ
11-07-2012, 12:23 PM
Man, talk about the sky is falling. :)

Look, not having Granger is a big loss, of course.

But it's not clear why people are jumping to conclusions that Granger had surgery, that things are being hidden from the fans, etc.

He went to a renowned orthopedic surgeon, and they decided to treat his injury conservatively, because it's freaking tendonosis. Not tendonitis.

Is it? I may have mis-read, so thanks for pointing that out.

This may help some of you that need a primer.

http://www.elitesportstherapy.com/tendinosis-vs--tendonitis

cgg
11-07-2012, 12:27 PM
The former player that would have really made a difference right now is BRush.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 12:29 PM
The former player that would have really made a difference right now is BRush.

Lol cept he's out for the year with a knee injury.

Speed
11-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Let me take my other post back, that group isn't necessarily better, across the board, but they are more defined and would provide some continuity in a situation that is a messed up jigsaw right now.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 12:32 PM
Let me take my other post back, that group isn't necessarily better, across the board, but they are more defined and would provide some continuity in a situation that is a messed up jigsaw right now.

Now THAT I would agree with. 100%. It's tough to try and figure out who can do what and where to best utilize them when our best player is injured.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 12:34 PM
Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Vogel: "no motivational speech will replace Danny, we just have to play"

docpaul
11-07-2012, 12:43 PM
Is it? I may have mis-read, so thanks for pointing that out.

This may help some of you that need a primer.

http://www.elitesportstherapy.com/tendinosis-vs--tendonitis

:)

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?76768-Pacers-Granger-has-injection-out-3-months-ESPN

Pretty sure it's tendinosis. This diagnosis actually better matches the natural history of what we know of Granger's knee issues as well.

MikeDC
11-07-2012, 12:44 PM
I think some of you guys need to read the press release and then go look up tendinosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendinosis).

It's tendinosis, not tendinitis. Apparently there's a huge difference. And a bad one. Tendinitis is a generic inflammation that generally goes away with rest. Tendinosis is not an inflamation, but a degenerative condition that's often mistaken for tendinitis.

ChicagoJ
11-07-2012, 12:50 PM
@ Mike, @doc, thanks. The words are very close, even though the meaning has some similarities, the actual diagnosis and treatment is not. Thanks for clarifying, as I'm sure I wasn't the only one to misread or fail to appreciate the differences.

docpaul
11-07-2012, 01:02 PM
I haven't seen the same elite offensive potential everyone else apparently sees. I don't think his offensive capability goes without question in any sense.

I see a guy with good size for the position who is a decent catch and shoot guy but not much else on that end of the floor. For a guy with his size and athleticsm, he's a relatively poor finisher around the basketball. Despite his summer tutoring, he still looks like a really poor ball handler. He doesn't move very well without the ball. He seems to be working a bit on his post game but hasn't really developed it any way. He has not shown an ability to get his own shot with ease.

And I'm not sure a guy scoring 16-18 ppg as the lead option on a bad team in the WAC proves that one has huge offensive potential.

I see a guy with a beautiful, natural shooting form that gets such nice lift to potentially shoot over anyone at will.

I see a guy who's trying to figure out how to play at both ends of the floor and have enough energy to do so. He looks like he takes puffers on offense so that he can dominate on defense. At least to me, that's why he doesn't move so well off the ball.

I see improved handles from last offseason, but goes back to old bad habits under pressured circumstances.

I don't think he has the size/bulk to really move his post game forward meaningfully... but clearly has changes in his body over when he was drafted (he's added about 15 lbs since his college days).

That's the fun of being a spectator. We can see different things. :)

My concern is that George seems to be the kind of player that needs the coaches to really push him hard. IMO, he needs someone to hold him accountable to live up to his potential. Vogel doesn't seem like that kind of coach.

Eleazar
11-07-2012, 01:12 PM
I think we should start DJ, with Hill, PG, West and Roy.

Hill is one of our best players when he's played in his position. We've got to let him do his scoring and defending thing. We can increase Lance's time at the 2, and even give Baby Hans some minutes.

But I think moving Hill to the 2, where he can move without the ball and score, would be the best thing to do.

Usually I would agree with you, but in this case I don't. I would rather see Lance play the two, and have them split duties. I have absolutely no confidence in DJ's defense, and I really don't want to see that with the starters. I feel like their games could really compliment each other and the starters better than DJ's.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-07-2012, 01:13 PM
how is next year's draft?
get out of here with this bs

CableKC
11-07-2012, 01:17 PM
Well, this just means that PG has to grow up much sooner than we thought. He may not want it...but he's going to have to be "The Man" now.

Frankly, I don't think that PG is ready nor willing to be "The Man".

Can someone give him the same stuff that West and GH takes before the start of each game so that he's more aggressive?

McKeyFan
11-07-2012, 01:20 PM
get out of here with this bs

A little sense of humor will help the medicine go down, mate.

Eleazar
11-07-2012, 01:25 PM
A little sense of humor will help the medicine go down, mate.

It would help if it was actually funny.

Pacergeek
11-07-2012, 01:26 PM
Time to hit the cellar for Zeller!!

CableKC
11-07-2012, 01:28 PM
https://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA/statuses/266245610938699779


The Pacers have already reached out to the agent of free agent swingman Mickael Pietrus as a possible replacement in the lineup


Pietrus is a solid wind defender and 3pt shooter....but the guy has a low basketball IQ and poor shot selection.

Are there other FA options?

Pacergeek
11-07-2012, 01:28 PM
Guys, Paul isn't the one that has to step up his game. Hill and Roy are the 2 making the big bucks. Time to start playing like you are worth the $$

CableKC
11-07-2012, 01:30 PM
Time to hit the cellar for Zeller!!
Yeah...I doubt that the Pacers do that.

McKeyFan
11-07-2012, 01:37 PM
Um...didn't we draft a shooter?

If you really need spacing, far more than you need to avoid other issues like rookie mistakes or awareness errors at either end, then it's time to let Orlando take some jumpers.


He's definitely a shooter, but apparently not a maker.

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 01:37 PM
He's definitely a shooter, but apparently not a maker.

:laugh:

docpaul
11-07-2012, 01:41 PM
Guys, Paul isn't the one that has to step up his game. Hill and Roy are the 2 making the big bucks. Time to start playing like you are worth the $$

It's a team sport. Better midrange and outside shooting opens up the floor and allows Hibbert and West some space to do their work.

Given that the whole offense is predicated around feeding the post, this poses a problem. :) The team hasn't adjusted to that yet. In the first game of the season, there was a lot of beautiful ball movement in the first quarter, especially by Hibbert and George... and then once the defense recognized that our outside shot was broke, they capitalized on this and took us completely out of our game plan.

Rewatch the games this season so far carefully, and you'll see teams defensively loading the box, forcing poor ball movement and lots of outside shooting early in the clock.

Looks like Beckley Mason agrees:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/51174/in-the-absence-of-danny-granger

rock747
11-07-2012, 01:44 PM
Mike Wells‏@MikeWellsNBA

The Pacers have already reached out to the agent of free agent swingman Mickael Pietrus as a possible replacement in the lineup

flox
11-07-2012, 01:49 PM
As I've stated before, I view this team without Granger the same way I view this team before we got David West: Not a playoff team, and in for some rough times. West and Hibbert make a good scoring pair, but I think realistically for us to get good spacing and offensive flow we need all three on the court, and our replacement level players in green and Young are definitely not up to par, at least in my opinion. I think we're gonna see some rough ball, some stuff that might remind you of the he who shall not be named era of play. I don't think our offense will be good enough without Granger. For better or worse, we could always give him the ball and expect some type of shot to come out. Now, who can we give the ball to do create offense? With that in mind, I think we'll look for spacing (yes, the s word) to try to create.

In another sense, I'm also worried that without Granger, we might find some other flaws with our players. I think if we ask Hill, Hibbert, etc to take a lot of offensive load, we will find out what kind of players they are. Maybe we'll see the press to hard, maybe they'll lose their shot or their confidence. I say that especially to Hibbert, who has been inconsistent and if he plays poorly without Granger, I'm not sure if the negativity won't get to him. Hill I'm less worried about, since he went through the pressure cooker that is coach Pop, but sometimes I worry that if his shot goes he might not do well in other areas of the game. And then the offensive pressure on George is going to be pretty high, and we'll see what kind of load he can bear. In this sense some of this might be a blessing because we get to see what they can do.

In a sense, having these young guys playing without Granger is pretty nice when we know that now he isn't going to be back for 3 months. Now that we know, we have to play through it and see what we really have. I still think we can make the playoffs with this team, although I don't think we should, and at the very least we could use that confidence boost.

Random thought:

This is also probably the last year of the David West era, at least in my opinion. I appreciate what he's brought to our team and he's done a great job, but this is the last year of his contract, and going by the types of players that Pritchard has brought in, as well as his track record (Mahinmi, Augustin, Green) he seems to value athletes. West is on the decline in that perspective and I'm not quite sure we would want him back, especially since we'll have around 10 million in cap space this offseason (give or take, depending on draft position, hansborough QO, etc etc) to make a run for Josh Smith. I view Smith as someone that Pritchard will go after hard, because of his ability to defend multiple positions, someone who can switch off on guarding Lebron and Bosh. Pritchard is a smart GM, he sees that, and while I appreciate what West has brought to the team and would have loved to make a good run with him, I think we're definitely going to see the end of the West era, and this is a rough way to go, with Granger out. I bring this up because I wouldn't be surprised to see Pritchard try to make a move to get an asset back for West, maybe a pick or something, if we continue to slide.

BillS
11-07-2012, 02:05 PM
Time to hit the cellar for Zeller!!

Yeah. Pacers and Bulls both hit the lottery due to injury to their primary scorer. Guess which one would get the actual #1 pick. Go on. Guess.

I'll give you a hint.

N_t _ndia__.

Another hint?

_ulls

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 02:08 PM
Yeah. Pacers and Bulls both hit the lottery due to injury to their primary scorer. Guess which one would get the actual #1 pick. Go on. Guess.

I'll give you a hint.

N_t _ndia__.

Another hint?

_ulls

You are funny :laugh:

Erndog
11-07-2012, 02:10 PM
Well, this just means that PG has to grow up much sooner than we thought. He may not want it...but he's going to have to be "The Man" now.

Frankly, I don't think that PG is ready nor willing to be "The Man".

Can someone give him the same stuff that West and GH takes before the start of each game so that he's more aggressive?


Honestly, if that's true that's sad.

Winners always want the ball. Always want to be the man. Always want to take charge, lead, win, etc. No matter their age or situation, etc.

If PG isn't willing to be the man he will never be... and will be the type of guy who just quits when the going gets tough (ala Vince Carter for example).

I hope you're wrong.

imawhat
11-07-2012, 02:12 PM
George Hill is the player most capable of picking up a majority of the scoring load. He has a great mid-range game that he rarely takes advantage of, but if he decided to he could score 15-17ppg.

cgg
11-07-2012, 02:19 PM
Lol cept he's out for the year with a knee injury.

He wouldn't be in the same situation if he was still on the Pacers.

Speed
11-07-2012, 02:38 PM
How is Danny's worth to the team impacted? I mean for his next contract? Is he more valued now because you see what life without him looks like? Is he less valuable from being injured? There are some interesting choice coming around.

Count me in the camp that you had to sign Roy, but it becomes more apparent how that impacts your team structure, when you have that kind of money committed to one player. I think the team, fans, and even Roy himself will be much harsher on him if this turns into a losing environment.

Everything thats been said today, if you win the next 3 and play well doing it, everything will be good again. Funny how that works.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 02:45 PM
He wouldn't be in the same situation if he was still on the Pacers.

huh? How do we know that? An injury can happen to anyone at anytime. Just because he was in GS doesn't mean he wouldn't have had the same injury with the Pacers.

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 02:45 PM
We know what this means:

MOAR PLUMLEE!

cgg
11-07-2012, 02:50 PM
huh? How do we know that? An injury can happen to anyone at anytime. Just because he was in GS doesn't mean he wouldn't have had the same injury with the Pacers.

It doesn't mean aliens wouldn't have abducted him either. He tore it by landing a certain way in a certain situation. That situation wouldn't have happened here. A different situation may have happened, but not the same one.

Trophy
11-07-2012, 03:04 PM
I expect Green to turn it up soon also. He's beginning to adjust better here and is scoring better than in his first two games. He's playing more like himself.

gummy
11-07-2012, 04:09 PM
My League Pass expenditure is suddenly looking more expensive in terms of dollar to entertainment value ratio.

:(

rexnom
11-07-2012, 04:10 PM
Maybe we can go out and and play more loose now. Unburdened by expectations.

Trader Joe
11-07-2012, 04:24 PM
Maybe we can go out and and play more loose now. Unburdened by expectations.

At the very least, it's now do or die time for Paul George, Roy Hibbert, and George Hill. Danny Granger is not walking through that door until at least February and those 3 are gonna be the ones facing the blame if they don't man up here.

Hypnotiq
11-07-2012, 04:37 PM
So does this mean we are not going to win the central now?

Rose and Granger come back around the same time now

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 05:09 PM
According to Wells on the radio show he expects this 3 months to be longer, he said that teams usually give optimistic dates regarding injuries, I agree with him.

xtacy
11-07-2012, 05:14 PM
My League Pass expenditure is suddenly looking more expensive in terms of dollar to entertainment value ratio.

:(

same here.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 05:18 PM
Too soon to be officially on the "Danny Granger expiring contract watch"? two more years right?

OlBlu
11-07-2012, 05:29 PM
Yeah. Pacers and Bulls both hit the lottery due to injury to their primary scorer. Guess which one would get the actual #1 pick. Go on. Guess.

I'll give you a hint.

N_t _ndia__.

Another hint?

_ulls

No thanks. Zeller has "bust" written all over him.... He shares some traits that have limited his brothers...... I think he will be a career back up in the NBA... Plus, he plays for Indiana who just had two recruits have to pay back money for things a "booster" gave to them. Some things never change.... They will be allowed to rejoin the team. Do you think they would ever have come back for Bobby Knight? Let me help you with that, "NO" . :cool:

90'sNBARocked
11-07-2012, 06:13 PM
We're seriously about to see what Paul George is made of. Pretty tough to put all of this on him at such an early stage of his career, but I dont think he has a choice now.

Unfortunately I think we already know

SycamoreKen
11-07-2012, 07:17 PM
Yeah. Pacers and Bulls both hit the lottery due to injury to their primary scorer. Guess which one would get the actual #1 pick. Go on. Guess.

I'll give you a hint.

N_t _ndia__.

Another hint?

_ulls

That's what the :celtics: thought when the :spurs: lost their best player and stole some guy from Wake Forest. :jumpout:

clownskull
11-07-2012, 09:42 PM
No thanks. Zeller has "bust" written all over him.... He shares some traits that have limited his brothers...... I think he will be a career back up in the NBA... Plus, he plays for Indiana who just had two recruits have to pay back money for things a "booster" gave to them. Some things never change.... They will be allowed to rejoin the team. Do you think they would ever have come back for Bobby Knight? Let me help you with that, "NO" . :cool:

DELETION - ADMIN NOTE: Come on, now, this is going to stop.

oz_pacer
11-08-2012, 03:20 PM
Wow we're already talking lottery after 5 games the only way we get a lottery pick this year is if we trade for one

RWB
11-08-2012, 03:30 PM
According to Wells on the radio show he expects this 3 months to be longer, he said that teams usually give optimistic dates regarding injuries, I agree with him.

I hope not.... while not an expert I did talk to an xray person who said if Granger isn't back by 3 months there is more going on and he's got an arthritic knee that will probably never heal properly. Of course just their opinion but it's something they see often.

Trader Joe
11-08-2012, 11:54 PM
So...I was at Detour in Carmel tonight to watch the Colts game, and who should come in but Danny. Here's the bad news. He can't put any weight on his bad leg. Not even to walk from table to table. He came in on crutches and hopped from table to table while leaning on chairs. So I'm gonna have to say something more than just a shot was done to that knee. He was moving around without crutches at the home opener last Saturday.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 12:11 AM
So...I was at Detour in Carmel tonight to watch the Colts game, and who should come in but Danny. Here's the bad news. He can't put any wait on his bad leg. Not even to walk from table to table. He came in on crutches and hopped from table to table while leaning on chairs. So I'm gonna have to say something more than just a shot was done to that knee. He was moving around without crutches at the home opener last Saturday.

Damn, yeah that sounds bad.

diamonddave00
11-09-2012, 12:21 AM
Like I said at time the shot story was reported I've had knee surgeries 13 weeks is about the right rehab time after a scope .

graphic-er
11-09-2012, 12:42 AM
So...I was at Detour in Carmel tonight to watch the Colts game, and who should come in but Danny. Here's the bad news. He can't put any wait on his bad leg. Not even to walk from table to table. He came in on crutches and hopped from table to table while leaning on chairs. So I'm gonna have to say something more than just a shot was done to that knee. He was moving around without crutches at the home opener last Saturday.

Did you chat him up for a bit? I would let him how alot of the fans are eating their crow from talking all that **** over the years about him and his overall impact to the team.

31andonly
11-09-2012, 05:15 AM
Why didn't they actually get his knee fixed properly in the offseason? They said it happened during the Miami series. This is 6 months between then and now. 6 months. I mean, why wait until the season opener to give him this injection?

Heisenberg
11-09-2012, 06:41 AM
Why didn't they actually get his knee fixed properly in the offseason? They said it happened during the Miami series. This is 6 months between then and now. 6 months. I mean, why wait until the season opener to give him this injection?

They tried. People aren't robots.

BillS
11-09-2012, 10:18 AM
So I'm gonna have to say something more than just a shot was done to that knee. He was moving around without crutches at the home opener last Saturday.

OR the healing regimen is to stop putting any weight on the knee so that it will heal. A smart player is going to take that pretty seriously and treat it as if it was unable to take weight.

Trader Joe
11-09-2012, 10:52 AM
OR the healing regimen is to stop putting any weight on the knee so that it will heal. A smart player is going to take that pretty seriously and treat it as if it was unable to take weight.

Sure, Bill that could absolutely be the case and I don't have the medical degree to know for sure either way. Just passing on the info.

Hicks
11-09-2012, 01:03 PM
So...I was at Detour in Carmel tonight to watch the Colts game, and who should come in but Danny. Here's the bad news. He can't put any wait on his bad leg. Not even to walk from table to table. He came in on crutches and hopped from table to table while leaning on chairs. So I'm gonna have to say something more than just a shot was done to that knee. He was moving around without crutches at the home opener last Saturday.

Or could it maybe be that the only way to try to heal up is completely resting the knee, so they put his weight off of it to max that out? Just wondering.

Trader Joe
11-09-2012, 01:25 PM
Or could it maybe be that the only way to try to heal up is completely resting the knee, so they put his weight off of it to max that out? Just wondering.

I don't know. With my knee injury last year, I could put weight on the knee, but I had to wear a heavy brace. Now everyone's knee is different so I really can't say, plus Danny and I do not have the same injury. Mine was more dramatic in the sense that it came from one play and a big twist to the knee (three bone bruises, a partially dislocated patella, and strains to the ACL, MCL, PCL, and LCL), not a problem that is more, I don't know, chronic in nature (which is kind of what I am understanding tendonosis to be, though I think am more susceptible to it now)? Again I'm not a medical pro by any means, but the way Danny was moving last night, just being an average Joe who has also had a knee injury, I'd say something else was done to the knee, but who knows. Maybe if it was another platelet rich injection the idea is to keep it completely free of weight for period of time to maximize the healing done. I just have no idea. To me the weird thing was not only the way he moved, but also he held the leg. I know in PT on my knee, movement for the knee was important. To break up scar tissue and to help regain your range of motion. Again though different injuries so I am just speculating and passing along the news. I think we can say this for sure, Danny is hurt, very hurt, and very seriously and we all need to hope that 3 months is actually accurate. That was not a healthy guy I saw last night. I will say he seemed to be in good spirits though and the fact that he was out at all was a good sign. I think his wife was with him and helping him around. Looked like they were meeting up with some friends, so to answer graphic-er's question, no I didn't chat him up or bother him. He had a few people do that, I figured he'd probably rather just enjoy his evening and watch the Colts.

Bball
11-09-2012, 03:23 PM
After a surgery wouldn't there be a brace of some kind even if the doctor said "crutches and no weight on it"? Or would swelling preclude that?

I agree though... more than likely more was done than an injection. Out 3 months for an injection treatment sounds suspect.

Since86
11-09-2012, 03:26 PM
The injection was probably for short term. Some injuries just require rest. Nothing else.

CJ Jones
11-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Did you chat him up for a bit? I would let him how alot of the fans are eating their crow from talking all that **** over the years about him and his overall impact to the team.

No one doubted his importance to the team. I wish people would stop saying that. If anything people argued he was too important to the team. He's not good enough to be your best player and face of the franchise.

90'sNBARocked
11-09-2012, 05:05 PM
I don't know. With my knee injury last year, I could put weight on the knee, but I had to wear a heavy brace. Now everyone's knee is different so I really can't say, plus Danny and I do not have the same injury. Mine was more dramatic in the sense that it came from one play and a big twist to the knee (three bone bruises, a partially dislocated patella, and strains to the ACL, MCL, PCL, and LCL), not a problem that is more, I don't know, chronic in nature (which is kind of what I am understanding tendonosis to be, though I think am more susceptible to it now)? Again I'm not a medical pro by any means, but the way Danny was moving last night, just being an average Joe who has also had a knee injury, I'd say something else was done to the knee, but who knows. Maybe if it was another platelet rich injection the idea is to keep it completely free of weight for period of time to maximize the healing done. I just have no idea. To me the weird thing was not only the way he moved, but also he held the leg. I know in PT on my knee, movement for the knee was important. To break up scar tissue and to help regain your range of motion. Again though different injuries so I am just speculating and passing along the news. I think we can say this for sure, Danny is hurt, very hurt, and very seriously and we all need to hope that 3 months is actually accurate. That was not a healthy guy I saw last night. I will say he seemed to be in good spirits though and the fact that he was out at all was a good sign. I think his wife was with him and helping him around. Looked like they were meeting up with some friends, so to answer graphic-er's question, no I didn't chat him up or bother him. He had a few people do that, I figured he'd probably rather just enjoy his evening and watch the Colts.

How did you strain the PCL? Just curious because the PCL is usually injured by either a car accident or like a lineman getting hit below the waist from the back

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 05:32 PM
After a surgery wouldn't there be a brace of some kind even if the doctor said "crutches and no weight on it"? Or would swelling preclude that?

I agree though... more than likely more was done than an injection. Out 3 months for an injection treatment sounds suspect.

Yeah this is starting to look like Dunleavy all over again, by the way I don't understand their explanation that Danny got hurt during the playoffs, I remember that Danny didn't play the last five games of the regular season so he could rest the knee, so which one is it? was he hurt and got worse on the playoffs? or did he injured the other knee?

graphic-er
11-09-2012, 06:12 PM
No one doubted his importance to the team. I wish people would stop saying that. If anything people argued he was too important to the team. He's not good enough to be your best player and face of the franchise.

But yet we finished 5th best record in the league last year.

clownskull
11-09-2012, 06:52 PM
i hope this doesn't turn into another one of those j.o./bender issues of a chronic knee situation that never gets better, only worse.
i have seen that show a few times too many already.
as far the impact it has had- i don't know, i understand danny isn't the point guard but his absence likely has had an impact in the way the team operates overall.
frankly, when i pulled some stats from usa today and saw these stats- it is surprising we have even won 1 game "They are 25th in the league in scoring, 26th in field goal percentage, 28th in assists and 30th in the league in turnovers."
those number MUST get better and quickly or they are going to be getting beaten a bunch this year. they HAVE been playing some good defense this year so there is that but, fix everything else that is broken or screwed up and that includes pretty much everything else.

pacer4ever
11-09-2012, 06:56 PM
Same injury that ended Benders career. Guy on the radio said Duncan has had it for 10 years in his shoulder. He said if they can control it he will be fine if not it could be a career ender. Guy stresses its serious and he would be imobilelized for almost the whole 3 months. Likely won't be in playing shape for another month if the PCP works.

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 06:57 PM
Who and what would be served by keeping surgery a secret?

pacer4ever
11-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Who and what would be served by keeping surgery a secret?Guy who was just on 1070 with Brunner said that it's normal to stay off it for awhile. Surgery is the next option if PCP doesn't work but he said people don't come back from that surgery.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 07:02 PM
Who and what would be served by keeping surgery a secret?

I think is possible that some fans won't buy tickets if they know Danny had surgery and is likely to be out for the season, again by listening to Wells he seems to be saying that the 3 months the Pacers are suggesting is best case scenario, Wells also said that teams do this as a way to keep fans interested on the team and this is not the first time he sees this happening.

imawhat
11-09-2012, 07:37 PM
Same injury that ended Benders career. Guy on the radio said Duncan has had it for 10 years in his shoulder. He said if they can control it he will be fine if not it could be a career ender. Guy stresses its serious and he would be imobilelized for almost the whole 3 months. Likely won't be in playing shape for another month if the PCP works.

Normal recovery is 2-3 months, full recovery is 6-8 months, and there's an 80% chance that he'll be able to resume physical activity. I don't have a source but that's what I read about tendinosis injections.

There's no reason to make a false public statement about injury treatment, so I doubt there is more to it than the injection. Someone who has access should find a treatment plan for the injury to see if it recommends crutches/no weight.

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 07:45 PM
Same injury that ended Benders career. Guy on the radio said Duncan has had it for 10 years in his shoulder. He said if they can control it he will be fine if not it could be a career ender. Guy stresses its serious and he would be imobilelized for almost the whole 3 months. Likely won't be in playing shape for another month if the PCP works.

Who is this guy?

Bball
11-10-2012, 02:08 AM
Tendonosis sounds like what Dunleavey had except they didn't name it. And one of the treatments is surgery to scrape the tendon (as I understand it) with the expectation being that the healing process will encourage bloodflow that was lacking at the root of the problem.

RWB
11-10-2012, 02:25 AM
Same xray person I talked to believes Granger probably got a Synvisc injection. Apparently has some anti inflammatory help but mainly lubricates the heck out of the knee and would be closer to this 3 month time frame.

Bball
11-10-2012, 04:49 AM
Do other NBA teams have a history of hiding/spinning injuries to the point the fans actually doubt the official word?

If history repeats one of these days we'll be reading a Pacers' report and there will be some matter of fact mention about Granger healing well following surgery and we'll all be like: Surgery? When? What? Can that be right? Huh? Of course before that we'll hear how he's been responding positively to rehab.

Then at some point we'll be reading Montieth and he'll mention in a matter of fact way "Pacers officials still hold out hope that Granger can return by the playoffs" ...as if the 3 months rehab period had been updated and it was common knowledge his season was in jeopardy.

And one day we'll be reading about his treatments and there will be a comment mentioning career threatening.

Or maybe it just seems like that is the Pacers way with injuries....

Heisenberg
11-10-2012, 06:46 AM
Tendonosis sounds like what Dunleavey had except they didn't name it. And one of the treatments is surgery to scrape the tendon (as I understand it) with the expectation being that the healing process will encourage bloodflow that was lacking at the root of the problem.
Pretty sure Dunleavy had a massive bone spur that he finally got removed his last year here.

Bball
11-10-2012, 10:15 AM
There was some interesting and unsettling revelations in the latest update on Mike Dunleavy's knee injury. The injury is due to a "giant bone spur on my right patella tendon." According to Dun, the knee has been an issue for some time.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2009/3/2/777323/mike-dunleavy-staring-at-k

Good catch. I apparently combined the issue and limited it to the tendon.

gummy
11-10-2012, 03:21 PM
Same xray person I talked to believes Granger probably got a Synvisc injection. Apparently has some anti inflammatory help but mainly lubricates the heck out of the knee and would be closer to this 3 month time frame.

Inflammation isn't really an issue with tendonosis. Synvisc is indicated for osteoarthritis (though I am sure it's used in a variety of off-label ways too, just like most drugs). I don't think we've heard anything about Danny having osteoarthritis, have we?

Tendons heal slowly, guys. There's not necessarily a secret surgery conspiracy going on here.

vnzla81
11-26-2012, 01:47 PM
Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness
That's progress for Granger, who has been in sweats and on crutches at practice the last few days. He has declined interview requests.
Details


30m Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness
Danny Granger was off crutches today, walked without a limp and appeared to have just worked out.





They also said that he is almost ready to be able to ride his white horse(I have inside info :))

vnzla81
11-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness
Danny Granger chats with head trainer Josh Corbeil during practice. http://instagr.am/p/SgNlotl5b4/
View photo Reply Retweet Favorite

Trader Joe
11-26-2012, 02:03 PM
Hmmmm, from crutches to shorts and shoot around?

boombaby1987
11-26-2012, 02:06 PM
I dont think the fact that he is holding a basketball means he has been shooting around.

BillS
11-26-2012, 02:07 PM
Would set shots put strain on the knee? If not, one would think a little shooting to get one's eye back in couldn't hurt.

Trader Joe
11-26-2012, 02:09 PM
I dont think the fact that he is holding a basketball means he has been shooting around.

What about that in combination of the tweet looking like he had just worked out?

D0NT SH0OT ME
11-26-2012, 02:14 PM
Would set shots put strain on the knee? If not, one would think a little shooting to get one's eye back in couldn't hurt.

I was shooting set shots 2 months after my ACL surgery, which my doctor said was perfectly okay.

vnzla81
11-26-2012, 02:16 PM
I was shooting set shots 2 months after my ACL surgery, which my doctor said was perfectly okay.

As long as he is not playing blowing I think we are good :)

Since86
11-26-2012, 02:18 PM
Would set shots put strain on the knee? If not, one would think a little shooting to get one's eye back in couldn't hurt.

Yes, but that's not a bad thing.

Trader Joe
11-26-2012, 02:24 PM
I'm not surprised he's shooting around, I'm surprised that it went from crutches to shots so fast. I would have expected to hear he was off crutches for a few days first.

DrFife
11-26-2012, 02:47 PM
But to paraphrase Monty Python,

"Bowling is RIGHT OUT!"

Eleazar
11-26-2012, 03:04 PM
I think the crunches thing was more there to keep stress off of the knee than a real necessity.

naptownmenace
11-26-2012, 03:22 PM
They'll probably start him off by shooting free throws. That should help him get his shooting motion fine tuned and with the way the team has been missing them that's the best place to start.

This is good news by the way even if he wasn't shooting around. It's better than hearing that he's not making any progress and he's still on crutches.

Eleazar
11-26-2012, 03:29 PM
Ok I have a question. Are there any restrictions on who can play on your D-League team? If not then I think it might be smart of the Pacers to do what MLB teams sometimes do with injured players coming back in the middle of the season. Let him play with the Mad Ants for a few games to help get him back up to speed without being a possible detriment to the team. It might slow his actual return down a little, but it might serve to help to smooth out some of the bumps of coming back mid-season.

count55
11-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Ok I have a question. Are there any restrictions on who can play on your D-League team? If not then I think it might be smart of the Pacers to do what MLB teams sometimes do with injured players coming back in the middle of the season. Let him play with the Mad Ants for a few games to help get him back up to speed without being a possible detriment to the team. It might slow his actual return down a little, but it might serve to help to smooth out some of the bumps of coming back mid-season.

For players with 3 or more years experience, both the player and the union would have to approve the assignment. The scenario seems unlikely, as the union would not be fond of setting the precedent, and the Pacers would want him close to their medical staff.

rexnom
11-26-2012, 03:58 PM
For players with 3 or more years experience, both the player and the union would have to approve the assignment. The scenario seems unlikely, as the union would not be fond of setting the precedent, and the Pacers would want him close to their medical staff.
this is new, no?

count55
11-26-2012, 04:03 PM
this is new, no?

Yes. New CBA.

Previous rules were Rookies or Second year players only (0 to 1 yrs experience), limit of 3 assignments.

New rules are rookies, 2nd & 3rd year players any time (0 to 2 yrs experience), 4th year or higher as noted above...no limit on assignments.

1984
12-07-2012, 08:46 PM
New news?

Anthem
12-07-2012, 08:52 PM
Nothing yet. New is still "It'll be ready when it's ready... think February."