PDA

View Full Version : It's four games for crying out loud!!!!



stephen
11-06-2012, 03:00 PM
everyone relax with the overreacting about how bad this team is.

Its a WHOLE new bench, they need to get comfortable playing together. It will take some time

Granger has not played 1 minute

we lost to the pistons last year in the 4th game of the season...actually got blown out by the pistons, and that season for us did not end too bad did it?!?!?

its four games lets all take a chill pill...we sound like knick fans over here crying about our team and coach after FOUR flipping games smh

Foul on Smits
11-06-2012, 03:02 PM
I'm pretty sure Indiana is going to rip off 8 or 9 wins at some point in the next month and everyone will be backing off the ledge.

Kid Minneapolis
11-06-2012, 03:04 PM
I agree, but let's not kid ourselves, we've looked beyond bad so far this year, and are lucky to be .500. Last year we at least showed large periods of being very competitive. Right now it only feels like we have a chance to win these games by dragging the other team down to our level and hoping we get lucky.

I do have hope that we'll get things together. But man, it makes ya worry. This goes beyond just losing 1 guy...

stephen
11-06-2012, 03:05 PM
I agree, but let's not kid ourselves, we've looked beyond bad so far this year, and are lucky to be .500. Last year we at least showed large periods of being very competitive. Right now it only feels like we have a chance to win these games by dragging the other team down to our level and hoping we get lucky.

I do have hope that we'll get things together. But man, it makes ya worry. This goes beyond just losing 1 guy...

Oh we have definitely looked bad, but its way to early to cry about it.. I rather start off bad than start off great and than fall off

stephen
11-06-2012, 03:06 PM
Jim Obriens first year we started off 3 and 0...how did that season end?!?!

thunder are 1 and 2 right now...I bet their fans are calm though

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 03:09 PM
and that season for us did not end too bad did it?!?!?

Yes it did.

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 03:12 PM
BS. Bulls were a top 4 team without Rose last year.

this team could very easily be 0-4 right now. somebody needs to give them a swift kick in the *** instead of a pat like Vogel.

stephen
11-06-2012, 03:15 PM
2nd round exit, fighting hard vs the team who ended up winning the finals. Last season was a great year for us.

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 03:20 PM
2nd round exit, fighting hard vs the team who ended up winning the finals. Last season was a great year for us.

Depends in what do you mean by great, if your definition is that every year the Pacers lose to somebody that makes it to the finals is a "great season" I don't know what to tell you.

BillS
11-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Depends in what do you mean by great, if your definition is that every year the Pacers lose to somebody that makes it to the finals is a "great season" I don't know what to tell you.

And if your definition is that every year the Pacers (or any team, I don't care who they are) don't win the championship is a bad year, you are destined to spend most of your life disappointed.

Never understood how anyone can take any joy out of sports if the only good result is to win it all when no team wins it all every single year (or wins every single game).

rabid
11-06-2012, 03:43 PM
BS. Bulls were a top 4 team without Rose last year.

??? Rose didn't get hurt until the playoffs. And the Bulls then proceeded to lose 4 of their next 5 games to the 76ers (the 8th seed).

Dr. Awesome
11-06-2012, 03:45 PM
I think we will be fine this year. I'm now concerned about our future. Us taking it to the next level depending on Paul George fulfilling his potential on offense. Clearly thats not going to happen - now we are the new Hawks...just kinda stuck in the middle.

odeez
11-06-2012, 03:47 PM
TRUE - Way to early to panic, but as fans we need W's, and it feels good to win. But the effort we put forward in SA was alarming. It seems like the team is still trying to figure it out. I am getting a little impatient with PG, he needs to be more agressive getting to the rim.

Maybe DG being out is the cause for some it. Besides D. West and sometimes Hill, we've been void of a go to scorer. I have no idea what's going on with ROY?!?! He like PG needs to be more assertive. I am not sure how many touches he is getting, but he has to make more of an impact.

My general feeling is this will work it's self out, but again, FANS need wins. We expect it with this team now, and I think that's a good thing!

odeez
11-06-2012, 03:50 PM
Anyone else think DJ is too passive? ... maybe it's his body language for me.

PGisthefuture
11-06-2012, 03:54 PM
The difference is that last year we weren't expecting to be as good as we were. We thought early on when we had bad losses it wasn't as bad. This year we have come in with high expectations. I think we'll be fine. I'm not ready to call us the Hawks just yet, if we have another first/second round playoff exit, then maybe. Yes, we have looked horrible so far and I hate to beat a dead horse here, but the fact is, it will take some time for this team to get used to each other. I think we should wait until about 10-15 games into the season and if we are still struggling, then it might be time to worry. Either that or we find out that Danny is out for the season or something, and yes, it is clear that this team does need Danny right now.

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 03:55 PM
And if your definition is that every year the Pacers (or any team, I don't care who they are) don't win the championship is a bad year, you are destined to spend most of your life disappointed.

Never understood how anyone can take any joy out of sports if the only good result is to win it all when no team wins it all every single year (or wins every single game).

That's not what I'm saying, I just don't agree with people celebrating last season like it was a "great season" it wasn't, a good decent season? yeah, a "great season"? nope.

PGisthefuture
11-06-2012, 03:56 PM
Anyone else think DJ is too passive? ... maybe it's his body language for me.

I think a lot our guys have looked passive. It's like they need to be told to wake up and that these games actually count.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 03:57 PM
We've played 3 road games, won a double-overtime game and won another game when one of our clutch players made a game winning shot, lost a road game in which one of our benchwarmers missed an open three at the buzzer -- although we only needed one to tie or two to win -- and we got hammered on the road by the team who's Big 3 has led them to the best 15-year cumulative record in NBA history.

And all of this while missing a key member (and former all-star) of the starting five.

There's no real shame in where they're at.

PGisthefuture
11-06-2012, 03:57 PM
That's not what I'm saying, I just don't agree with people celebrating last season like it was a "great season" it wasn't, a good decent season? yeah, a "great season"? nope.
I think I'd say it was a great season compared to what we had to put up with the years before...

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 03:58 PM
??? Rose didn't get hurt until the playoffs. And the Bulls then proceeded to lose 4 of their next 5 games to the 76ers (the 8th seed).

Rose was hurt for must of the year so you are wrong, Chicago ended up in 1st place without him for must of the time and they ended up losing to Philly because not only Rose was out but Noah also got hurt.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Rose was hurt for must of the year so you are wrong, Chicago ended up in 1st place without him for must of the time and they ended up losing to Philly because not only Rose was out but Noah also got hurt.

You must be talking about Jalen? Or Pete? Was Charlie Hustle injured last season?

Cousy47
11-06-2012, 04:07 PM
Agree with a lot of this. First, every team in the league is now aware of Roy and how dominating he can be. They will plan for that and take him out of the game until we punish them for it. We've seen a lot of double and triple teaming on Roy. My only worry is that we very quickly abandon any clear game plan and start isolating and pounding the ball as soon as the entry passes don't work. PGeorge is growing into a competely different kind of player from last year. Mostly because of the lack of Granger, Paul is being force fed his new role instead of easing into the role of "The Man". Be patient, we'll get there. Hansbrough needs to become a high energy DWest and run the same PnRs.

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 04:08 PM
You must be talking about Jalen? Or Pete? Was Charlie Hustle injured last season?

For a guy that lives in Chicago you don't know much about Rose's injuries, the guy played 39 games last year and everybody knows that he was never 100% healthy, everybody also knows that Noah got hurt on national TV and was out for the rest of the series making it easier for Philly to beat them.

edit: Here is a list on his injuries last year in case you think that I'm making s*** up.



The list of Rose's injuries is long, particularly for a young and otherwise healthy professional athlete. It all began less than two weeks into the season when Rose fell hard enough on his elbow to warrant X-rays. He escaped unscathed (X-rays were negative) but that would be the last time he would be so lucky. Less than a week later a collision with Timberwolves forward Anthony Tolliver resulted in a sprained left big toe. He missed one game but returned to action three days later, despite persistent pain. He lasted two games but then was forced to miss the next four because of the toe. Rose returned to the lineup in late January and seemed to be off to a fresh start. Then the problems really began. Back spasms cropped up in February and forced Rose out for more than a week. A few weeks later there were reports of a groin strain which led to another dozen absences. Rose returned for one game (yes, just one) before a sprained right ankle caused him to miss more time. Days later it was his right foot sidelining him. Rose, who had missed very little game action before this season, expressed frustration with the cumulative injuries, at the time telling reporters, "For someone to not miss more than seven, 10 games in a year (my first three seasons), to miss 20 something, 30 something games, it hurts, man."
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7868819/derrick-rose-torn-acl-caps-injury-plagued-nba-season


So nope it wasn't Jalen or Pete.......

Ace E.Anderson
11-06-2012, 04:13 PM
That's not what I'm saying, I just don't agree with people celebrating last season like it was a "great season" it wasn't, a good decent season? yeah, a "great season"? nope.

It was a great season for a team that was a sub .500 8th seed the year before, and then completely out of the playoff picture the 5 seasons before that.

Last year was the first time we've ever been anything worth a da*m to anyone else outside of PD.

stephen
11-06-2012, 04:26 PM
we were the 5th best team in the LEAGUE last year lol, jokes that you refuse to call it a great season.

the only thing that concerns me right now is that we are not getting ANY update on dannys knee. I have a feeling he will be out alot longer than we expect

Ace E.Anderson
11-06-2012, 04:28 PM
Part of me is still stuck on the strong showing we had against the Heat where it took two heroic efforts by two of the best players in the game to send us home. So naturally I expected to see the same tough, physical and confident team that we saw for a lot of last season. So when I've seen us struggle thus far, part of me wants to panic and say "what's wrong with this team?!" That's when I (we) become overly critical and start to wish for players we used to have, contemplate coaching changes, etc.

But then I think about it and I realize we're without our best scorer. If you take the best scorer off of any team, much less a team that is built around being a TEAM, then you're naturally going to have some problems. No Danny isn't as good as a Kobe, Lebron, Durant, etc. But if you take those guys off of their teams 2 days before the start of the season, idk that these teams fare much better than what the Pacers have.

Yes we have some issues, and if we're going to do ANYTHING this season, we need Danny back. But at the same time, we need to have realistic expectations for the team while they're without their leading scorer.

We've had some rough patches with Vogel at the helm before (5game losing streak in his interim season, both a 4 game and a 5 game losing streak last season) and he's always stayed the course and gotten these guys to focus. For whatever reason, when things go good for us, they go GREAT. When things go bad for us, we look awful. We've looked about as bad as we can look in the first 4 games, and we're still 2-2. Once (if) the ship gets righted, I'm sure we'll get back to a higher level of play--ESPECIALLY if Danny is able to come back and be close to 100%

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 04:36 PM
For a guy that lives in Chicago you don't know much about Rose's injuries, the guy played 39 games last year and everybody knows that he was never 100% healthy, everybody also knows that Noah got hurt on national TV and was out for the rest of the series making it easier for Philly to beat them.

edit: Here is a list on his injuries last year in case you think that I'm making s*** up.



http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7868819/derrick-rose-torn-acl-caps-injury-plagued-nba-season


So nope it wasn't Jalen or Pete.......

Sure he was banged up, and missed some regular season games, but that's not the same as having a season-ending injury. The Bulls had Rose all season until the playoffs.

Trophy
11-06-2012, 04:39 PM
:thankyou:

McKeyFan
11-06-2012, 04:41 PM
For whatever reason, when things go good for us, they go GREAT. When things go bad for us, we look awful.
UB has commented a lot on the fact that both winning and losing are contagious.

Anybody who's played golf knows that once you hit a shank, it seems like several more shots are likely to be shank-like until you finally fix the problem.

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 04:47 PM
Sure he was banged up, and missed some regular season games, but that's not the same as having a season-ending injury. The Bulls had Rose all season until the playoffs.

It's not the same as having season ending injury but having a player in and out of your lineup affects your team and with all that the Bulls were able to stay number 1 in front of Miami, Pacers,etc, think about it, first place.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 04:54 PM
It's not the same as having season ending injury but having a player in and out of your lineup affects your team and with all that the Bulls were able to stay number 1 in front of Miami, Pacers,etc, think about it first place.


And teams didn't know how to prep for the them. Now they've got to go months straight without him and they'll struggle the longer this goes.

Kemo
11-06-2012, 04:54 PM
This team is like a well oiled machine when all it's parts are in good working order... If you take 1 of the key cogs out of this machine, it isn't gonna run very well.... if at all .....how it is supposed to.....

Danny is more important to this team than any stats can indicate....

Alot of you are DEFINITELY knee jerking...
But I can say that I agree with the valid complaints on certain key aspects of the last few games...
The turnovers are horrible and we need to get them under control ...

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 05:03 PM
And teams didn't know how to prep for the them. Now they've got to go months straight without him and they'll struggle the longer this goes.

They are going to struggle because they don't have the same team, CJ Watson is underrated, the guy can play and hit big shots, Korver is gone too, the other small point guard that won few games for them is also gone, I still expect them to have a decent record and end up 6th or 7th, Tom is too great of a coach for then not to be good.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 05:06 PM
They are going to struggle because they don't have the same team, CJ Watson is underrated, the guy can play and hit big shots, Korver is gone too, the other small point guard that won few games for them is also gone, I still expect them to have a decent record and end up 6th or 7th, Tom is too great of a coach for then not to be good.

They'll make the playoffs, but that's a symptom that the East has five or six quality teams and then it will be a free-for-all. At that next level, Thibs will make a difference. But he won't get them into the top six without Rose. He can't overcome their talent defeciency.

And with Hinrich replacing those scrubs, there are plenty that believe the backcourt was actually upgraded (after Rose returns, of course.)

Justin Tyme
11-06-2012, 05:25 PM
[QUOTE=stephen;1523204]

Jim Obriens first year we started off 3 and 0...how did that season end?!?! QUOTE]


36-46

AND no playoffs

kielbeze
11-06-2012, 05:47 PM
It should be mandatory that the digest be closed for a 72 hour window after a tough loss.

Peck
11-06-2012, 06:05 PM
To me it's not a tough loss, heck in fact losing the Spurs is kind of a hobby of ours seeing has how we haven't won in San Antonio in 10 years.

No to me it is a cumulative effect of watching 4 game that have us being generally strong defensively yet absolutely abysmal on the offensive end. Just no cohesion at all.

I mean we are .500% so yes calling for Frank to be fired or calling Roy the biggest wasted contract in NBA history is a little over board, but non chalantely proclaiming that we will just get better without something changing is equally naive to me anyway.

I understand some players will get better and yes maybe I just expected too much of Paul George but honestly I thought he was going to step up and be that one offensive threat that teams had to spend all of their energy focusing on. Maybe that’s just not ever going to be his game, btw there is nothing wrong with that but I think honestly he is probably going to end up more of a taller Andre Iguodala than a Kobe Bryant (no I didn’t expect him to be as good as Kobe but that kind of a scorer).

Yes anytime you lose your best player you are going to struggle so the fact that we are at .500 doesn’t surprise me at all. Getting pounded by the Spurs doesn’t surprise me either.

But not being able to execute any form of offense vs. a standard 2-3 zone is just mind numbing to me.

Eleazar
11-06-2012, 06:11 PM
At an individual level Hill, PG, and Hibbert have all shown improvement, and West is the same player he was last year. Lance and Hansbrough are both playing much more in control, and smarter basketball. Mahinmi is a better defender than Lou, has good range, and is money from the free throw line. Green is at worst an equal to Barbosa. DJ may be the only position not as good or better this season, but he is a much better PG in this team than Collison was, he just might no be the scorer Collison was. So I really don't see any significant problems with the players, especially since they should play better as the season goes.

To me everything that we have had problems with can be traced to two things. The absence of Granger, and Vogel, more the latter than the former. Vogel has yet to put in any kind of offense that isn't either a iso situation or a two many game between Hill and West/Hansbrough. We do nothing to take advantage of teams focusing on Hibbert as every time we run a pay through Hibbert in the post it is for Hibbert to score, not to open up other players to score. When ever we run a play for George it is an iso play designed for George to beat his man with the dribble. There is no complexity and there are very few plays that have everyone involved. This stuff is easy to defend, and does nothing to try and get people open for easy shots. There is no excuse for that this season.

McKeyFan
11-06-2012, 06:18 PM
I understand some players will get better and yes maybe I just expected too much of Paul George but honestly I thought he was going to step up and be that one offensive threat that teams had to spend all of their energy focusing on. Maybe that’s just not ever going to be his game, btw there is nothing wrong with that but I think honestly he is probably going to end up more of a taller Andre Iguodala than a Kobe Bryant (no I didn’t expect him to be as good as Kobe but that kind of a scorer).


I think it is a reach to predict Paul George will become a first class scorer. It's possible, sure, but the expectations are just too high.

Paul George has talent. But talent is not the major prerequisite for becoming an elite scorer. That talent exists between the ears. Most players don't have it. We don't know if Paul does. The percentages say he doesn't.

Yes, he is 6'10", quick, and can jump out of the gym. He has a nice outside shot. None of that is the key factor. Is he a scorer? Is that his mentality? Does he have the confidence, the risk taking cohunnas, the thick skin after missing a few shots, the ability under pressure, etc. etc.? Granger does. Granger doesn't have playmaking abilities so he is an excellent scorer in the NBA though not elite. Paul, perhaps, could become elite, but his physical skills are easier to come by than the skills that guys like Granger have between their ears.

I'm hopeful for Paul. But, honestly, I'm not counting on it.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 06:33 PM
I think it is a reach to predict Paul George will become a first class scorer. It's possible, sure, but the expectations are just too high.

Paul George has talent. But talent is not the major prerequisite for becoming an elite scorer. That talent exists between the ears. Most players don't have it. We don't know if Paul does. The percentages say he doesn't.

Yes, he is 6'10", quick, and can jump out of the gym. He has a nice outside shot. None of that is the key factor. Is he a scorer? Is that his mentality? Does he have the confidence, the risk taking cohunnas, the thick skin after missing a few shots, the ability under pressure, etc. etc.? Granger does. Granger doesn't have playmaking abilities so he is an excellent scorer in the NBA though not elite. Paul, perhaps, could become elite, but his physical skills are easier to come by than the skills that guys like Granger have between their ears.

I'm hopeful for Paul. But, honestly, I'm not counting on it.

That's also something that Reggie didn't really show for a few seasons, with Chuck and Detlef as the first two options. Its too early to tell with Paul George, he's still got time to grow, but it is also something that shouldn't be counted on THIS season.

aamcguy
11-06-2012, 08:09 PM
I am taking this easier than most, but I also expected this kind of rocky start. Once I heard that Granger was having bad knee problems toward the end of the preseason I tempered my expectations for the start of the season. Once I heard he was out I assumed we would fight at just about .500 until he returns fully or the team gets used to playing without him.

I didn't expect PG to make a "huge jump" that many were expecting. Honestly, it's a little unfair to expect a massive improvement (and complete change of his style of play to boot) of him, and when he doesn't show it get upset like it was guaranteed he would easily fill Granger's place. The fact is that that we are an offensively pedestrian ball club without our best player. We do have the players to be a good team without Granger, but it's more like Philadelphia was last season as far as talent goes.

People are always comparing Granger with Melo's offensive game as a benchmark, but I always believed a much better comparison was Paul Pierce. I think if Granger was on the Celtics, he would have kept his scoring up for the reasons that McKeyFan mentioned. He has that mentality. But stick an improved Paul George (and he has improved a lot) next to Granger and you have a downright dominant wing combo.

Pacergeek
11-06-2012, 08:16 PM
our bench has been downgraded, none of our key players have improved, and all of our new guys look like they don't belong on a contending team. Only 2 guys that have shown improvement are Stephenson and Hansbrough. Hill and Roy aren't earning their pay raises

MaHa3000
11-06-2012, 08:33 PM
Pacers aren't playing good right now because the Colts are playing good right now. Its like the MADDEN curse or something.

PGisthefuture
11-06-2012, 10:40 PM
I am taking this easier than most, but I also expected this kind of rocky start. Once I heard that Granger was having bad knee problems toward the end of the preseason I tempered my expectations for the start of the season. Once I heard he was out I assumed we would fight at just about .500 until he returns fully or the team gets used to playing without him.

I didn't expect PG to make a "huge jump" that many were expecting. Honestly, it's a little unfair to expect a massive improvement (and complete change of his style of play to boot) of him, and when he doesn't show it get upset like it was guaranteed he would easily fill Granger's place. The fact is that that we are an offensively pedestrian ball club without our best player. We do have the players to be a good team without Granger, but it's more like Philadelphia was last season as far as talent goes.

People are always comparing Granger with Melo's offensive game as a benchmark, but I always believed a much better comparison was Paul Pierce. I think if Granger was on the Celtics, he would have kept his scoring up for the reasons that McKeyFan mentioned. He has that mentality. But stick an improved Paul George (and he has improved a lot) next to Granger and you have a downright dominant wing combo.

I've always wanted to compare Danny to Paul Pierce, but nobody ever agrees with me. I think they are almost identical players tbh.

Neither one is necessarily a Kobe/LeBron/Durant. Without them though, their respective teams won't work right. There's also the fact that they have both played on the same team their whole careers, usually lead the team in scoring, and play the same position.

PGisthefuture
11-06-2012, 11:05 PM
Let's take a look at something, shall we?

Some notable teams that are in the same boat or worse than us record-wise:
Clippers: 2-2
Brooklyn: 1-1
OKC: 1-2
Boston: 1-2
76ers: 1-2
Lakers: 1-3
Nuggets: 0-3

The Orlando Magic, the team who traded Dwight Howard for Aaron Afflalo, are undefeated. As are the Milwaukee Bucks.

My point is, this early in the season, the standings are so broad and a lot of teams are going to take time to gel because of new additions. I would rather us suck right now and learn a few lessons early, figure ourselves out as a group until Danny gets back and be a better team for it. It's obvious Danny is important to this team.

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 11:51 PM
i believe the Pacers have the talent to compete. I admonish Vogel as much as the next Pacer fan and am hopeful he can coach us to the next level.

I aslo hope Brian Shaw stays on the Pacers bench.

BlueCollarColts
11-06-2012, 11:57 PM
Pacers 10-10 before Danny Granger, 62-0 after they get him back ;)

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 11:59 PM
i believe the Pacers have the talent to compete. I admonish Vogel as much as the next Pacer fan and am hopeful he can coach us to the next level.

I aslo hope Brian Shaw stays on the Pacers bench.

Nah. If both teams continue to struggle and decide the coach is to blame, I hope Walsh trades Shaw out west in exchange for Chuck Person.

aamcguy
11-07-2012, 01:21 AM
Nah. If both teams continue to struggle and decide the coach is to blame, I hope Walsh trades Shaw out west in exchange for Chuck Person.

Both teams?

ChicagoJ
11-07-2012, 02:42 AM
Both teams?


According to the Sky-is-falling crowed, we are struggling at 2-2. And at least we're not 1-3 "on our way to 73 wins" so they must be struggling, too.

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 12:03 PM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

ATLANTA -- Indiana Pacers coach Frank Vogel is supposed to be past the point of having to motivate his players and making sure they know they can be a successful team.

This year is supposed to be about building off last season's success and pushing to take another step forward for the franchise. Instead, just four games into the young season, Vogel is already having to convince his players that they still have what it takes to be a top-level unit as they play at Atlanta Wednesday night.


Somebody should go tell the Pacers players that it has only been 4 games.............