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View Full Version : face the facts this team is S-O-F-T



PacersPride
11-06-2012, 01:37 PM
guys i have loved the Blue and Gold since the days of Vern Fleming, Chuck Person, Detlef Schremph and so on. i will continue to support this team. but im not going to sugarcoat this at all.

and before we everyone starts with the Granger is out threads. look at last seasons Bulls team who continued to win in spite of missing their MVP.

for all those so excited to see Larry Bird leave, well here is what you get. this is practically the same team as last year and not much better. Bird prob left because Simon is not willing to do what it takes to get this team to the next level. this team will still compete but this season is not going to be the year we upset Miami and win a Trophy.

* for all the hype Paul George had during the offseason, its prob gonna to stay HYPE and not translate to the court. Paul is timid and careless with the ball at times. he will improve but he is no where near being the X factor for this team.

* Hibbert = S-O-F-T
your shot may not be falling Roy but that doesnt mean you can get burned on the other end last night and then sulk after everytime Duncan makes you look like his ***** there is one constant in Basketball a player can control and thats DEFENSE. Hibberts shot may not be falling but he played like as S O F T as possible last night. starting to look like Bosh out there Roy.

in fact Bird had it right.

THIS FLIPPIN TEAM IS S-O-F-T.

and that falls on Vogel. everyone loves and respects Vogel because lets face it.. anything is better than JOB and his madness. but this is a business and this style of play is getting tiresome quick.

if not for George Hill last night we get blown out by 40.

if Vogel does not right the ship soon ship him out and let Shaw take over.

plain and simple.

THIS TEAM IS S O F T (w the exception of West Hill Hansbro).

for those of you comparing former pacer glory days.. Roy Hibbert would soil himself if he faced the DAVIS BROS and Big Smooth.

Unclebuck
11-06-2012, 01:48 PM
define what you mean by soft. it means different things to different people

Foul on Smits
11-06-2012, 02:04 PM
yah...

no

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 02:10 PM
define what you mean by soft. it means different things to different people

same thing Bird meant by it. im at work so i wont go much farther than that if you get my drift... basically the same context as Legend used the term.

you tell me what you think UB.

lets put it this way.. maybe Bob Knight should pay Roy Hibberts locker a visit give him a the same thing he gave some of the players he had who were SOFT. i think many on here will know exactly what i mean.

the other context i believe Bird was implying is this team is mentally SOFT. and it all starts with Hibbert. sorry but the gloves are off.. he is getting paid and no more excuses for the Big Fella. the fact Vogel has a crappy system in place and HIbbert prob does not get the ball enough. but because your Offense sucks is not an excuse to let Tim Duncan school you like he is still in his prime.

Hibbert played SOFT (censored version) all night long on D imo. Duncan straight made him his *****.

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 03:28 PM
for all of you naive in believing Granger is gonna come back and be the savior of this franchise.. enjoy living in fantasy land while you can. once granger comes back things will only slightly improve.

if things do not pickup significantly soon Pacers Digest will be calling for Brian Shaw by the all-star break. Granger is just an excuse for everyone to fall back on until reality smacks all us pacer fans in the face.

this team is SOFT.

vnzla81
11-06-2012, 04:05 PM
"They are as soft as a baby's a**" :)

owl
11-06-2012, 04:22 PM
define what you mean by soft. it means different things to different people

Fouling instead of allowing the excessive number of baskets made right at the rim. Absolutely forcing the other team to be jump shooters. Like San Antonio did to the Pacers. Not aggressive enough going to the basket and settling for jumpers. Force the issue underneath. With Roy, West and PG. Send everyone to the hoop for awhile on rebounds.
What happened to that team that Vogel took over and played so aggressively??

owl
11-06-2012, 04:24 PM
When Foster left this team I think most of the toughness went with him.

ReginaldWayne
11-06-2012, 04:31 PM
Wait what is this team?

Derek2k3
11-06-2012, 04:37 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

BlueCollarColts
11-06-2012, 04:55 PM
lets just keep overreacting even though our best player is gone and we have a whole new bench, I DONT EVEN THINK THE PACERS CAN WIN 10 MORE GAMES!!!!!!!!!!! THEY JUST ARE TOO SOFT THROUGH THE FIRST 4 GAMES OF THE SEASON TO ME

glazedham42
11-06-2012, 05:27 PM
I think we are losing games because of our complete inability to put the ball in the basket, coupled with the ridiculous amount of turnovers. In the first 4 games we've only shot better than 40% from the field once (Raptors). Since then we've been in the 30's. I don't care if your defense is better than the 1988 Pistons, you need to shoot better than 35% from the field to win games. Combine that with garbage free throw shooting through a couple games and there you go. I think our defense has been serviceable. It's about where I expected it to be right now. We seem to be able to put the clamps down when needed (aside from the Spurs). But we can't score, or run an offensive set to save our lives. We have about 3 plays right now on offense.

For some reason our offense consists of the PG and the PF standing at the top of the key and running around in circles. Then when the clock winds down throw up an ugly shot, or pass it to one of the wings for a turnover (Paul or Gerald). Or we could always throw it down to Roy so it can get stolen on the entry pass. Someone needs to teach him how to seal his man. Too many PGs, SGs, and SFs get blamed for bad post entry passes. Most of the time it's the PF or C's fault because they aren't strong enough or mobile enough to keep their man behind them.

So many things to fix. We've really regressed over the summer....

beast23
11-06-2012, 05:44 PM
for all of you naive in believing Granger is gonna come back and be the savior of this franchise.. enjoy living in fantasy land while you can. once granger comes back things will only slightly improve.

if things do not pickup significantly soon Pacers Digest will be calling for Brian Shaw by the all-star break. Granger is just an excuse for everyone to fall back on until reality smacks all us pacer fans in the face.

Actually, once Granger is back, I think it will make a significant difference in W-L expectations. However, I agree that, with the exception of Hill and West we have no mental toughness. I also agree that we are playing a bit soft, especially Hibbert, and cannot exert our will on even the weakest of teams at this time.

For those reasons, I am very worried about competing with the best of the best. Either Granger has to have much more influence on our toughness than I think he does or Hibbert has to grow a pair and man up every game out. Without that, we will not challenge the best teams.

rabid
11-06-2012, 06:06 PM
This team is SOFT.

Could you say that again, not sure I caught it the first eight times.

Pacergeek
11-06-2012, 07:06 PM
No excuse for Roy to only score 2 points after signing that contract. In terms of soft, I would consider Ian Mahinmi as soft. The only players with grit are Hans, West, and Lance. Granger at least wants to be tough. Roy and Paul seem content not to have any fight in them

naptownmenace
11-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

Thank you for your voice of reason.

People who draw major conclusions after just 4 games are IMHO, S.O.F.T!

Dr. Hibbert
11-06-2012, 09:38 PM
More mentally soft than physically soft though. Any appearance of being physically soft is a consequence of being mentally soft. If the latter changes, so too will the perception of the former.

But no one in the post is really calling David West or Tyler Hansbrough soft right now, I can assure you.

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 10:23 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

Toronto, Charlotte, Sacrapmento and San Antonio.

PacersPride
11-06-2012, 10:32 PM
especially Hibbert, and cannot exert our will on even the weakest of teams at this time.

For those reasons, I am very worried about competing with the best of the best. Either Granger has to have much more influence on our toughness than I think he does or Hibbert has to grow a pair and man up every game out. Without that, we will not challenge the best teams.

i dont care if Hibbert only scores 4 pts a game but he has to control the paint. Duncan punked him all night long. and the thing is.. Hibbert just accepted it. do something Hibbert.. knock him on his ***. Hibbert is this teams heartbeat.

I expect him to dominate the paint Dikembe Mutumbo style. he played SOFT last night. no EFFORT on Defense is not acceptable for the gamechecks he earns.

just my .02

graphic-er
11-06-2012, 11:37 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

Exactly, this thread is way off base. We aren't soft, just sloppy. We actually have a pretty good defense so far, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot with turnovers and poor foul shooting.

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 08:43 AM
Toronto, Charlotte, Sacrapmento and San Antonio.

Oh, so, what, they were supposed to be BETTER than #1 in most of those categories? They've defensively dominated inferior teams, which destroys this foolish notion of the team being "soft". If they could score points, they'd have blown out all 3 teams, and had a chance against SA.

Whatever.

Foul on Smits
11-07-2012, 09:05 AM
guys i have loved the Blue and Gold since the days of Vern Fleming, Chuck Person, Detlef Schremph and so on. i will continue to support this team. but im not going to sugarcoat this at all.

and before we everyone starts with the Granger is out threads. look at last seasons Bulls team who continued to win in spite of missing their MVP.

for all those so excited to see Larry Bird leave, well here is what you get. this is practically the same team as last year and not much better. Bird prob left because Simon is not willing to do what it takes to get this team to the next level. this team will still compete but this season is not going to be the year we upset Miami and win a Trophy.

* for all the hype Paul George had during the offseason, its prob gonna to stay HYPE and not translate to the court. Paul is timid and careless with the ball at times. he will improve but he is no where near being the X factor for this team.

* Hibbert = S-O-F-T
your shot may not be falling Roy but that doesnt mean you can get burned on the other end last night and then sulk after everytime Duncan makes you look like his ***** there is one constant in Basketball a player can control and thats DEFENSE. Hibberts shot may not be falling but he played like as S O F T as possible last night. starting to look like Bosh out there Roy.

in fact Bird had it right.

THIS FLIPPIN TEAM IS S-O-F-T.

and that falls on Vogel. everyone loves and respects Vogel because lets face it.. anything is better than JOB and his madness. but this is a business and this style of play is getting tiresome quick.

if not for George Hill last night we get blown out by 40.

if Vogel does not right the ship soon ship him out and let Shaw take over.

plain and simple.

THIS TEAM IS S O F T (w the exception of West Hill Hansbro).

for those of you comparing former pacer glory days.. Roy Hibbert would soil himself if he faced the DAVIS BROS and Big Smooth.


When do i start facing the facts? I see a ton of opinions. Let me know so i know when to come back and reply to them.

PacersPride
11-07-2012, 02:20 PM
Exactly, this thread is way off base. We aren't soft, just sloppy. We actually have a pretty good defense so far, but we are shooting ourselves in the foot with turnovers and poor foul shooting.

so you disagree with Larry Birds opinion last postseaoson. sorry but im gonna defer to the Legend over your opinion. i have not seen anything that would change his mind and that goes double for me.


Oh, so, what, they were supposed to be BETTER than #1 in most of those categories? They've defensively dominated inferior teams, which destroys this foolish notion of the team being "soft". If they could score points, they'd have blown out all 3 teams, and had a chance against SA.

Whatever.

just saying.. we have not beaten any team thats even considered a potential playoff squad. and considering half the teams in each conference makes the playoffs there is plenty of reason for concern.

we got bailed out in the toronto game by some fortunate shots by Hill
the Bobkitties beat us
it took double overtime to win vs Sacrapmento
and if not for Hill we get blown out by 40 vs SA. (we had a chance??? LMAO).. whatever.


When do i start facing the facts? I see a ton of opinions. Let me know so i know when to come back and reply to them.

when your bright enough to comprehend them. i wont hold my breath.

some of you need to go back and watch our max contract player get schooled by a guy way past his prime in duncan. fine Hibbert is not getting the ball on the offensive end. but to SUCK like he did on defense and not show any fight is BS.

spin it anyway you want .. Hibber played SOFTER than a babys bottom the other night.

if thats acceptable to you all then your on the wrong thread. please go back and watch Duncan make Hibbert look like a D League center monday night.. but hey everything is great!!! woohoo!

Derek2k3
11-07-2012, 02:35 PM
so you disagree with Larry Birds opinion last postseaoson. sorry but im gonna defer to the Legend over your opinion. i have not seen anything that would change his mind and that goes double for me.



just saying.. we have not beaten any team thats even considered a potential playoff squad. and considering half the teams in each conference makes the playoffs there is plenty of reason for concern.

we got bailed out in the toronto game by some fortunate shots by Hill
the Bobkitties beat us
it took double overtime to win vs Sacrapmento
and if not for Hill we get blown out by 40 vs SA. (we had a chance??? LMAO).. whatever.



when your bright enough to comprehend them. i wont hold my breath.

some of you need to go back and watch our max contract player get schooled by a guy way past his prime in duncan. fine Hibbert is not getting the ball on the offensive end. but to SUCK like he did on defense and not show any fight is BS.

spin it anyway you want .. Hibber played SOFTER than a babys bottom the other night.

if thats acceptable to you all then your on the wrong thread. please go back and watch Duncan make Hibbert look like a D League center monday night.. but hey everything is great!!! woohoo!

Funny, the guy with atrocious spelling and grammar mocking someone else's intelligence.

My comment about "having a chance" against SA was after I wrote "If they could score". Work on your reading comprehension, or be less of an ***. Up to you.

Oh, and you weren't "just sayin" there was "plenty of reason for concern." You were attempting, unsuccessfully, to argue that toughness was this teams main problem. Just sayin.

Rogco
11-07-2012, 03:48 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

Agreed. This team isn't old-school hard, but they're not any softer than most other teams. We need to complain to the refs more. Everybody else does it, but the Pacers tend not too.
I think we also have a talent issue, in that we are not an elite talent-level team without Granger. (probably not with Granger, but close). The thing is that all our players look like the players from last year. I've only seen noticeable improvement in two players, Hans and Lance. Unfortunately we need improvement most from Hibbert and George, and that hasn't happened so far.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 04:02 PM
Well, the Pacers lead the league in RPG with 53.3

They are 7th in PPG/Allowed with 94.

They are second in opponents adjusted FG% at 43%

They are first in the league in opponents Points Per Possession at 1.03

They are 6th in opponents FTA/game at 19

They are first in the league in blocks per game with 9

Sure, this team has struggled. But toughness? Give me a break. The issues are shooting and turnovers, basically sloppy play offensively.

Of course, just my $.02

Agreed.

We might be a bunch of things (extremely sloppy for example), but soft we are not.

PacersPride
11-07-2012, 04:02 PM
Funny, the guy with atrocious spelling and grammar mocking someone else's intelligence.

My comment about "having a chance" against SA was after I wrote "If they could score". Work on your reading comprehension, or be less of an ***. Up to you.

Oh, and you weren't "just sayin" there was "plenty of reason for concern." You were attempting, unsuccessfully, to argue that toughness was this teams main problem. Just sayin.

dude.. i got a college degree.. i could give two ***** if i dont have perfect grammar. who gives a ****. moreover, i dont even know what the h*ll your referring to.

dont flipping tell me what im inferring and what im not. your right. im saying Hibbert is not tough. so did LEGEND when he called this team SOFT last season.

its my opinion and im entitled to it. i read plenty of other threads/posts on here i beleive are garbage myself. if you dont like my opinion then tuff ******. dont read the thread . its up to you.

and while your at it dont respond like an *** and you will get the same in return. see your original post jerk.

oh and one more thing..

If IF'S ANDS & BUTTS were nutts we would all have a Merry Christmas now wouldnt we. read my thread again.. im critical because Defesne as i stated below is the one constant in Basketball.

you cannot always control whether the ball goes in the hoop.. sometimes teams are just off. but to QUIT or LACK EFFORT on DEFENSE is imo playing SOFT.

is this too much for you too comprehend because ive now spelled out my position as clearly as possible.

your position is rediculous.. so if we shoot better we can then focus more on D. pretty dull point of view if you ask me.

doesnt matter if this team scores 75 or 150 PLAY DEFENSE HIBBERT.

PacersPride
11-07-2012, 04:05 PM
Agreed. This team isn't old-school hard, but they're not any softer than most other teams. We need to complain to the refs more. Everybody else does it, but the Pacers tend not too.
I think we also have a talent issue, in that we are not an elite talent-level team without Granger. (probably not with Granger, but close). The thing is that all our players look like the players from last year. I've only seen noticeable improvement in two players, Hans and Lance. Unfortunately we need improvement most from Hibbert and George, and that hasn't happened so far.

Hibbert played soft in SA. ive played this game a long time. Hibbert should flat out be embarrassed by the lack of EFFORT he gave on DEFENSE.

i dont need you all to agree with me.. i have higher standards maybe then most. If Legend called this team SOFT its probably because its true.

Hibbert is not getting paid like a rookie any longer. he is getting paid like a MAN. so PLAY LIKE IT HIBBERT!

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 04:06 PM
dude.. i got a college degree.. i could give two ***** if i dont have perfect grammar. who gives a ****. moreover, i dont even know what the h*ll your referring to.

dont flipping tell me what im inferring and what im not. your right. im saying Hibbert is not tough. so did LEGEND when he called this team SOFT last season.

its my opinion and im entitled to it. i read plenty of other threads/posts on here i beleive are garbage myself. if you dont like my opinion then tuff ******. dont read the thread . its up to you.

and while your at it dont respond like an *** and you will get the same in return. see your original post jerk.

oh and one more thing..

If IF'S ANDS & BUTTS were nutts we would all have a Merry Christmas now wouldnt we. read my thread again.. im critical because Defesne as i stated below is the one constant in Basketball.

you cannot always control whether the ball goes in the hoop.. sometimes teams are just off. but to QUIT or LACK EFFORT on DEFENSE is imo playing SOFT.

is this too much for you too comprehend because ive now spelled out my position as clearly as possible.

your position is rediculous.. so if we shoot better we can then focus more on D. pretty dull point of view if you ask me.

doesnt matter if this team scores 75 or 150 PLAY DEFENSE HIBBERT.

But we're one of the best defensive teams in the league thus far.....

Cousins shot horribly against Roy, and even Duncan shot a lower FG% against Roy (7-16) than he normally does.

PacersPride
11-07-2012, 05:59 PM
But we're one of the best defensive teams in the league thus far.....

Cousins shot horribly against Roy, and even Duncan shot a lower FG% against Roy (7-16) than he normally does.

im more interested in how we play against the elite of this league. charlotte sacrapmento and the bobkitties are annual lottery teams.

SA is a legit challenge and we did not play well at all. without Hill we get blown out by 40. Roy is the heartbeat of this Franchise now and he needs to step up become a leader. Duncan schooled him the other night.

Hibbert needs to find the kinda heart Hansbrough has and there will be no denying who the top center in the Eastern Conference is.

max contracts can make a player weak but i dont think thats something Hibbert will accept. however, if he plays like he did the other night in SA were not getting past the 2nd round anytime soon.