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View Full Version : Right Now I Miss Every Player We Got Rid Of



presto123
11-04-2012, 04:41 AM
I hope this changes and I realize it's early but right now I'm pining for Darren Collison back. I miss the energy and intensity of Dahntay Jones. Same with Lou Amundson. I think I would take him at this point over Mahinmi.Barbosa over Green? You bet. I was excited about the changes but so far I see a step backwards. I'll get back to you a month or two from now but I am definitely disappointed at this point.

Miller_time04
11-04-2012, 04:44 AM
Disagree

presto123
11-04-2012, 04:47 AM
Disagree

We'll see. I will remind you of your opinion a month from now:)

cgg
11-04-2012, 04:47 AM
You knew exactly what to expect from them so it's hard to be disappointed. Now we have to learn what the new guys can do.

presto123
11-04-2012, 04:50 AM
You knew exactly what to expect from them so it's hard to be disappointed. Now we have to learn what the new guys can do.

I didn't know exactly what to expect. To tell you the truth I knew very little about Mahinmi or Green for that matter. I always liked what I saw out of Augustine but so far he has been kind of meh.

cgg
11-04-2012, 04:53 AM
I meant that you knew what to expect from our old players. We don't have a good grasp of the limitations of the new players, so anything they can't do is new to us.

Miller_time04
11-04-2012, 05:00 AM
Collison is the only player I even come close to thinking about agreeing with. Barbosa was decent for scoring but I think green is much more efficient. And plays way better defense. Yah he's had some bad games, but he had a killer pre season and is getting better every game. Ian also had a good preseason and I could tell he's way better than Lou because they played against each other and it was obvious. His height just gives him too much of an advantage and he has a way better offensive game.

Collison and dj on the other hand I have no clue yet. I'm still waiting on dj to gel with the team and show what he can do. But even so we couldn't afford Darren eventually and we needed to pick between hill And him and I think we made the right choice.

Give them some more time. Ppl take a while to adjust to a new team. Even the heat took half of a year to play decent together at first.

Heisenberg
11-04-2012, 05:23 AM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

skyfire
11-04-2012, 06:33 AM
Green is doing ok so far, his outside shooting is a bit streaky but he is doing a pretty good job getting to the rim.

Mahinmi should be ok in time, I think we've got to work out how to use him properly. His hands aren't great and we keep throwing tough catches at him.

Augustin looks barely passable on offense and lost out there defensively. Not just his inability to stay in front of his opponent, but poor positioning and awareness.

Speed
11-04-2012, 07:40 AM
New bench guys have been basically detrimental, imo. DJs as bad as billed defensively, shoots a low percent for his career because hes a bad shooter. Greens look scared to play, his first two games were terrible, imo. He really can't handle the ball. Mahimni refused to impose his physical play, he's playing like he has 5 fouls, from the first moment he checks in. I think Lance and Tyler have looked good, but I agree with the OP, so far this has been really bad. I hope its not a case of the grass is greener working against management. To this point, I can't think of one thing that DC doesn't do waaaayyyyyyy better than Augustin. We'll see, its way early , but I'd take DC, DJones, Barbosa, and Lou over this group and give you 10 points in a pick up game.

Pacerized
11-04-2012, 08:01 AM
At the very least we were better off with DC. If we had to have Ian and his 4 year deal (which I disagree with), then we should have just signed him. Having DC and Jones would over DJ and Green would have given us a win against the Bobcats. DC was on a 1 year deal for a lot less then the 1 year deal that DJ is on.
Last night DC put up 18 and 10 assist in 32 minutes against the Cats. I never fall in love with a player during the preseason or summer league. When DJ has his first good game, I'm still not going to be overjoyed. He, Green and Ian have a long way to go to justify their contracts and signings.

OlBlu
11-04-2012, 08:38 AM
I hope this changes and I realize it's early but right now I'm pining for Darren Collison back. I miss the energy and intensity of Dahntay Jones. Same with Lou Amundson. I think I would take him at this point over Mahinmi.Barbosa over Green? You bet. I was excited about the changes but so far I see a step backwards. I'll get back to you a month or two from now but I am definitely disappointed at this point.

Right now the Pacers are 2-1 with a win on the road missing their best offensive player.... Folks in Indy expect way too much from their teams and their players......:cool:

OlBlu
11-04-2012, 08:40 AM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

That is the truth.... All of that change meant there was minimal improvement if any. I was saying that here and I got hooted down as usual. That is why I think the Pacers will back up just a bit in the East because other teams improved their starters... 48-34 fourth or fifth in the East......:cool:

sportfireman
11-04-2012, 09:35 AM
3 games into the season...... the complaints are coming in quickly. Can't please everyone.

OlBlu
11-04-2012, 09:37 AM
3 games into the season...... the complaints are coming in quickly. Can't please everyone.

I guess they would only be happy with 3-0. They are going to be unhappy many times this season and happy many more times...:cool:

MillerTime
11-04-2012, 09:49 AM
The only player you should be missing is Granger.

If Granger were healthy with our current roster, we'd be playing a lot better. Its only been 3 games - we've won 2 (by a very small margin).

Our roster has drastically changed this off season. These guys are going to need dome time to gel together. Lance has never played these many mins and he's only getting more and more comfortable each game.

Its a long 82 game season....

diamonddave00
11-04-2012, 09:57 AM
Its a long season Green, Mahinmi and Augustin will prove to be much better in the long run than those they replaced.

Last night stubborn Frank almost blew it playing an obviously worn out Hibbert the final 16 minutes and also sitting his most effective offensive player Gerald Green the final 16 minutes. Hibbert, Hill and West were gassed in the 1st overtime , it was just a good thing the Kings were so inempt.

Lou Amundson has yet to play a minute for the T'Wolves and Jones is averaging 1.3 ppg playing 7 minutes a night in Dallas personally I miss neither.

xIndyFan
11-04-2012, 09:59 AM
Collison is the only player I even come close to thinking about agreeing with. . .

This. I cherry picked your answer for this comment, but I think the Pacers will miss DC. DJones and Amundson are just guys. They do a decent job, but if they are playing heavy minutes, your team has problems. It's kind of the same way I feel about Sam Young. OK player, but his best position is 5th wing in a 4 wing rotation.

Mahinmi is an improvement, even though he's not off to a good start. Green looks like he might be OK once the Pacers figure out how to best use his skill set. I'd rather have DC than DJ right now, but it's early.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 10:34 AM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

Yep and at the end of the year we all are going to realize that this off season was a waste of time and money, why give long term contracts to players that are not much of an upgrade? I bet they could have signed Lou and Barbosa for way less.

Shade
11-04-2012, 10:39 AM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.

Sollozzo
11-04-2012, 10:48 AM
I was never high at all on the "upgrades" we made to our bench. Collison may have been frustrating at times, but he had two years of growing up with these guys. Wish we still had him.

OlBlu
11-04-2012, 11:14 AM
We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.

The Pacers spent a lot of money to keep what they had with Hibbert and Hill....:cool:

CompACE
11-04-2012, 11:40 AM
It's been 3 games...
http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/office_space_kit_mat.jpg

Anthem
11-04-2012, 12:56 PM
Man, AJ would have... oh wait.

But if Inferno had been out there.... no.

But surely LOUUUUU would have... no.

But Barbosa... no.

Would the second unit be better with Collison than with DJ? Possibly. Other than that, what exactly do you miss?

1984
11-04-2012, 01:01 PM
Nope. They're good players, but they are not the reason we are struggling. This team is coping with becoming the hunted rather than the hunter. It is the leap few make, many are lost in translation like Atlanta. Stay tuned...

1984
11-04-2012, 01:02 PM
We spent an awful lot of money to do nothing significant.

Letting Roy go to the Blazers would have been insignificant, I suppose.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 01:08 PM
Man, AJ would have... oh wait.

But if Inferno had been out there.... no.

But surely LOUUUUU would have... no.

But Barbosa... no.

Would the second unit be better with Collison than with DJ? Possibly. Other than that, what exactly do you miss?

Millions of dollars that could have been used in an actual upgrade? not only that but the non upgrades they got have long term deals.

Eleazar
11-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Millions of dollars that could have been used in an actual upgrade? not only that but the non upgrades they got have long term deals.

The only one that may not be an upgrade is DJ, and he got a 1 year deal. The others are already obvious upgrades even with their struggles.

cgg
11-04-2012, 01:17 PM
No more midget "center" ftw.

1984
11-04-2012, 01:18 PM
We should have signed Deron Williams.

imbtyler
11-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Okay, if DJ Augustin were playing for the Lakers, Heat, Mavs, Celtics, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, Bulls, or Nuggets, he would make the skeptic's perceived Darren Collison take a **** on himself. Augustin made the LOLCATS look good last year, and now he plays for a better team, and his stock drops.

Oh, Mahinmi's effort vs. Amundson's doesn't prove to you that Mahinmi's good? Did you neither see nor hear nor read any of the reviews, highlights, or discussion of how much upside these guys have? Mahinmi has, what, 3 inches on Looooouuuuuu, but his athleticism, length, and defensive presence does nothing for you?

Hey, what has two legs, a head full of hype and helium, and costs $100k more, yet is 5 years younger than Dahntay Jones?
<<- Check the avatar.

Like Jones, Green met his NBA rebirth after a stint in the D-League. Green was a prodigy coming out of high school, but lacked intangibles to be a productive player. Jones spent the last two seasons trying to perfect that corner 3-pointer that he constantly shot, but rarely made (at least until the latter half of 2012 season). His defense is tenacious, yes; but Green's effort, talent, and ability to be a major scoring option off the bench are skills/factors that Jones lacks.

Is he young? Yes. Is he still getting accustomed to his new team, new teammates, new coaching staff, and new life? Probably. Are we only 3.658536585% through the regular season and people are jumping to conclusions? Absolutely. This is PacerNation. I'm sure there are several in tears over not having Fez this year, even though his spot was so easily taken by a combination of Pendergraph and Ben Hansbrough.

In other words,

CHILL OUT. There's plenty of time to earn your fandom back.

:gopacers:

1984
11-04-2012, 01:19 PM
Remember this my friends: sometimes the best move you make is the move you do not make.

cgg
11-04-2012, 01:21 PM
The Bobcats never looked good last year and no one made them look good.

imbtyler
11-04-2012, 01:29 PM
The Bobcats never looked good last year and no one made them look good.

Errp... I meant to say that Augustin looked great on the Bobcats. Not that he made the team themselves look good. That's just impossible.

Goyle
11-04-2012, 01:50 PM
The only thing I miss about last years team is their reactions on the bench. They were way more fun to watch.

PGisthefuture
11-04-2012, 01:55 PM
I think once the team gets used to each other we will be noticeably better than last year. There is definitely more talent on this team, that's for sure. Yes, it is true that this team does not rely on one player, but not having Danny messes up the way this team works. Having Danny causes the defense to focus more on him which allows for the rest of our starters to get easier shots. Not having him messes a lot of stuff up. The second unit isn't what it should be because Vogel is forced to start Green who wasn't expecting to come in here and start. The guy came off the bench for the lowly Nets last year and is now starting on a playoff team so I think it's natural for him to be kinda nervous or thrown off. He had a solid game last night and I think it will get better as time goes on. We'll probably keep having close games until Danny gets back, but as long as we win more than we lose we should be fine. Once Danny gets back everything should fall into place and everybody will have forgotten about our early struggles. Like people have been saying... all teams struggle with significant roster changes at first. Look at the Heat when they were first assembled, look at the Lakers right now... I think we'll be ok.

notque
11-04-2012, 01:57 PM
An awful lot of people dismissing the idea, but DC was a starting level point guard that was better than his stats showed because of a poor offense. Now with a coach that puts guys in the best positions to succeed he looks like a stud.

We lost out because of our coaching, plain and simple. Losing DC was a huge blow.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Millions of dollars that could have been used in an actual upgrade? not only that but the non upgrades they got have long term deals.

Nobody on our bench is getting paid much of anything. For what we paid for our reserves, we wouldn't have been able to make any significant upgrades than what we did.

Most of our money went to re signing George and Roy.

It's easy to "miss" our other players after 3 games, but lets see if we miss them after the AS break. I'm guessing we won't.

OlBlu
11-04-2012, 02:11 PM
An awful lot of people dismissing the idea, but DC was a starting level point guard that was better than his stats showed because of a poor offense. Now with a coach that puts guys in the best positions to succeed he looks like a stud.

We lost out because of our coaching, plain and simple. Losing DC was a huge blow.

One of those coaches you are talking about is one JOB......:cool:

Justin Tyme
11-04-2012, 02:24 PM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.



That isn't true. Collison was the Pacers starter for 50 plus games last year only losing his starting PG spot due to an injury. The Pacers had a good record with DC a starter. Is DC not starting in Dallas now? Not to mention Augustin was a starter on the Bobcats last year and under Brown at times with Felton there.

Your comment about journeyman being replaced by journeyman is misleading, b/c the quality of the journeyman the Pacers got, Green and Mahinmi, are better than the journeyman, Lou and Dahntay, the Pacers lost.

W/o a doubt the Pacers upgraded their bench with Green, Augustin, and Mahinmi. Unfortunately, the Pacers gave 4 year guaranteed contracts to Green and Mahinmi. IMO, that wasn't a smart move. The last 2 years of the contract should have been Team Options just in case they player didn't work out.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 03:47 PM
The only one that may not be an upgrade is DJ, and he got a 1 year deal. The others are already obvious upgrades even with their struggles.

"Obvious upgrades"? yeah I'm not sure about that.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 04:04 PM
By the way do I think this bench can help the Pacers beat Miami,Boston,etc? No way.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 04:07 PM
Nobody on our bench is getting paid much of anything. For what we paid for our reserves, we wouldn't have been able to make any significant upgrades than what we did.

Most of our money went to re signing George and Roy.

It's easy to "miss" our other players after 3 games, but lets see if we miss them after the AS break. I'm guessing we won't.

It's easy to overrate players after watching them in preseason.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 04:20 PM
It's easy to overrate players after watching them in preseason.

I'm going more off what they did last season. Green was a double figure scorer, something DJ could never do, Mahinmi has size and was an important piece for DAL championship team--something Lou couldn't give. DC is prob better than DJ, but he wasn't better than Hill so it wasn't like he was going to play A LOT.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 04:21 PM
By the way do I think this bench can help the Pacers beat Miami,Boston,etc? No way.

BOS has struggled even more than the pacers this far this yr.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 04:25 PM
I'm going more off what they did last season. Green was a double figure scorer, something DJ could never do, Mahinmi has size and was an important piece for DAL championship team--something Lou couldn't give. DC is prob better than DJ, but he wasn't better than Hill so it wasn't like he was going to play A LOT.

I'm also going for what they have done in their careers is not like they are some rookies or anything like that, I'm going off Ian's bench play in Dallas. Green's 31 good games in five years and Augustin starting with the Bobcats.

PGisthefuture
11-04-2012, 04:38 PM
BOS has struggled even more than the pacers this far this yr.

Yeah, I hate how everyone hypes Boston up. They haven't proven anything. I feel like everybody bases their opinions off of Boston on their history, but we gotta look at the present and right now we're 2-1, they're 1-2.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 04:48 PM
I'm also going for what they have done in their careers is not like they are some rookies or anything like that, I'm going off Ian's bench play in Dallas. Green's 31 good games in five years and Augustin starting with the Bobcats.

True but it's not like the guys they replaced had stellar careers themselves lol.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 05:16 PM
True but it's not like the guys they replaced had stellar careers themselves lol.

They replaced a former 6th man of the year in Barbosa, a guy that was considered one of the best defenders in the NBA in DJ, one of the best backup point guards in the league in DC and a pretty decent and cheap PF/C in Lou, in reality that group was not as bad as many believe and yes they sucked against Lebron and Dwade, let me know what bench doesn't.

ilive4sports
11-04-2012, 05:18 PM
god damnit we are 3 games into the season. settle down. between this and the "is this team overrated thread", i actually can't believe the complaining. ITS BEEN THREE GAMES.

vnzla81
11-04-2012, 05:22 PM
god damnit we are 3 games into the season. settle down. between this and the "is this team overrated thread", i actually can't believe the complaining. ITS BEEN THREE GAMES.

Overreacting much? ....

Miller_time04
11-04-2012, 05:24 PM
I agree. I almost wanna take a vaca from PD for a while. I can't believe this ****. It's all doom and gloom and were 2-1

Sandman21
11-04-2012, 05:26 PM
Overreacting much? ....

He aint. People are losing their **** over three games we aren't even going to remember in six weeks (if that!).

funnyguy1105
11-04-2012, 05:28 PM
I miss Fesenko's meme catchphrases. /tear

funnyguy1105
11-04-2012, 05:33 PM
He aint. People are losing their **** over three games we aren't even going to remember in six weeks (if that!).

I disagree... Losing to the Bobcats is like farting on a first date. It's so embarrassing you just don't forget it. Time heals most things but it won't give me another shot with Nora... sigh

Eleazar
11-04-2012, 05:39 PM
You know what is nice about our backup bigs? They are number 2 and number 3 in free throw shooting percentage, and have the best points per shot rating at 1.7 and 1.5 on the team.

NapTonius Monk
11-04-2012, 06:00 PM
I wonder if we took too much for granted in the preseason, and the early chemistry is suffering for it.

ilive4sports
11-04-2012, 06:35 PM
Overreacting much? ....
yes, im the one overreacting...

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 06:39 PM
They replaced a former 6th man of the year in Barbosa, a guy that was considered one of the best defenders in the NBA in DJ, one of the best backup point guards in the league in DC and a pretty decent and cheap PF/C in Lou, in reality that group was not as bad as many believe and yes they sucked against Lebron and Dwade, let me know what bench doesn't.

Barbosa isn't the same player he was in PHX with Nash. He avgd 8 ppg on like 38% for the pacers, not exactly tearing it up. ESP when you consider his lack of D. We all know D.Jones's D wasn't that elite or else he'd play more.

We didn't lose anyone who either didn't deserve to be replaced, or wasn't able to be replaced. After three games isn't the right time to complain about missing some bench players.(DC not included--but the front office committed to Hill)

PGisthefuture
11-04-2012, 07:01 PM
I disagree... Losing to the Bobcats is like farting on a first date. It's so embarrassing you just don't forget it. Time heals most things but it won't give me another shot with Nora... sigh

Lol, I think we'll be fine, but yeah... Losing to the Bobcats can't sit well with anyone and I think it will be in the back of our heads for awhile.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 08:45 PM
By the numbers

Last season's bench:
DC: 10pts, 3 rebs, 5 assts, 44% shooting
Barbosa: 9pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst 38% shooting
D. Jones: 5pts, 2 rebs, 1 asst, 40% shooting
Lou: 3 pts, 3 rebs, .7 blk, 43% shooting


This season's bench
DJ: 4pts, 2 rebs, 3 assts, 20% shooting
Green: 10 pts, 3 rebs, 1assts, 39% shooting
Ian: 4pts, 5 rebs, 1 blk, 20% shooting


Obviously numbers dont tell all, but these 3 guys have played about as poorly as one could play, and their numbers are STILL comparable to our bench players last season. DC was our starter for most of the year, but when he was coming off the bench, he averaged 4pts and assists in the reg season coming off injury, and 9pts and 3assts in the playoffs, so that production is being matched by Lance.

I highly doubt that Ian and DJ will shoot 20% the rest of the season. And Green showed us offensively what he's capable of against the Kings.

Eleazar
11-04-2012, 10:17 PM
At this point this year's players are at a disadvantage as one game can radically skew the stats.

Anthem
11-04-2012, 10:36 PM
Overreacting much? ....
Yeah, you kind of are. But it's cool, we expect it of you. Don't worry, we won't hold it against you too much.

Naptown_Seth
11-04-2012, 10:39 PM
We'll see. I will remind you of your opinion a month from now:)
That cuts both ways.

Ace E.Anderson
11-04-2012, 10:46 PM
At this point this year's players are at a disadvantage as one game can radically skew the stats.

You're right, bc it's only been three games. If these numbers were the same after 30 games it'd be alarming.

BlueNGold
11-04-2012, 10:50 PM
Given the team's needs, I like the new players. Ian is an important big that we lacked. He adds presence that we lacked with Lou in there. Green is better than Barbosa and with more development may be quite good notwithstanding the first two stinkers.

DC is better than Augustin but given some time we may find that Augustin is a better fit with the bench.

beast23
11-04-2012, 10:57 PM
The players we lost are, or will be, journeymen. The players we gained are, or will be, journeymen. It's a wash. Nothing significant was gained or lost.

Don't you believe that is an extreme oversimplification? I realize that there are starters, then there are bench players. But it does not matter whether you are acquiring a starter or a bench player, you aren't just plugging and playing, you are looking for something specific, something that performs or better or at least fits better than what you already have.

And that is what I believe you are overlooking.

On the surface, we dumped DJones and acquired Green. I really liked DJones's defensive abilities and his occasional offensive explosion, but I believe Green brings something that DJones did not have. And that is extremely good quickness, the ability to create his own shot and an ability to explode to the basket. Although he is not showing it just yet, I believe Green will also eventually prove to be a much more consistent shooter than DJones on the perimeter. As much as I liked DJones, this will not prove to be a wash.

This same trade also was able to net us Ian, who provides a stabilizing force defensively in the post for the second unit. I also liked Lou quite a bit, mostly due to his motor, but I don't even think it is debatable how much better the defense of our second unit will be by switching Ian for Lou.

I think DJ is struggling a bit right now, but I am more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt by granting him a little time to learn to mesh better with his teammates.

We are scrambling a little bit right now due to Granger's absence. And I think that not only leads to some of the instability in the starting unit, but also in the second unit as well. His absence does lead to Green and Lance getting greater opportunities though, and I am hopeful that will pay off big dividends for us later in the season.

The important point is that, although on the surface we may have just swapped our bench players for other bench players, the pieces we now have in the second unit do a better job of matching our the needs that we had in the second unit. That being better defense and scoring in the post, a better distributor and a scorer that is able to create, score from the perimeter and get to the rim.

To me, the only advantages that last year's team had over this year's team was better chemistry and a healthy Granger.

I don't believe that we are performing as well as we should be, but I also think that we need a bit more time to form better chemistry. It will come.

Miller_time04
11-04-2012, 11:43 PM
You gotta remember PG is prolly the hardest position to adapt to a new team. Considering they run the offense and do most of the passing. Give dj some time to gain some chemistry and a lot of you will be surprised. Collison was good at scoring but that's not what we needed. Especially when it comes to re sign him.

vnzla81
11-05-2012, 12:38 AM
Yeah, you kind of are. But it's cool, we expect it of you. Don't worry, we won't hold it against you too much.

I'm not overreacting I'm just giving my opinion in what I think about the first 3 games and the "improved" bench, people opened threads to talk about how great this guys looked in freaking preseason but I can't give my opinion about the first 3 games? please.......

cdash
11-05-2012, 12:45 AM
I'm not overreacting I'm just giving my opinion in what I think about the first 3 games and the "improved" bench, people opened threads to talk about how great this guys looked in freaking preseason but I can't give my opinion about the first 3 games? please.......

Your opinion can be an overreaction.

That said, I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned about our new bench. Maybe it will look better when (if?) Granger comes back, but Green and Mahinmi have been a little disappointing through three games.

vnzla81
11-05-2012, 12:52 AM
Your opinion can be an overreaction.

That said, I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned about our new bench. Maybe it will look better when (if?) Granger comes back, but Green and Mahinmi have been a little disappointing through three games.

I'm not overreacting, how many times I have to say that I know is only 3 games and then I give my opinion about the 3 games? sorry but I'm not the one saying *** damn or crying around here.

CableKC
11-05-2012, 12:54 AM
Right now....after 3 games :rolleyes: ......I only see it this way:

DJ ( so far ) << Collison
Young > Inferno ( for locker room purposes and cuz I think that Young is more versatile )
Lance 2012 > Lance 2011
Hans 2012 ~ Hans 2011
Green ( so far ) ~ Barbosa
Mahinmi >> Lou

Overall, I think that the 2nd unit is better....but clearly....the backup PG spot is not so good. But I think that DJ and Green will get better as the season progresses.

Really OT.....but IMHO...if DJ isn't the answer as the backup PG.....I think that the Pacers should go after Jarrett Jack in the 2013-2014 offseason as the backup PG. :)

cdash
11-05-2012, 12:56 AM
I'm not overreacting, how many times I have to say that I know is only 3 games and then I give my opinion about the 3 games? sorry but I'm not the one saying *** damn or crying around here.

Couple things...

1) This post of yours is absolutely an overreaction.
2) I never said your opinion was an overreaction. I said your opinion can be an overreaction. So can my opinion. So can anyone's opinion.
3) Did you even read the rest of my post, or did you just stop after the first sentence? Because if you had actually read it, you would see that I more or less agree with you about the bench.

PaceBalls
11-05-2012, 01:04 AM
I am not a big fan of Darren Collison, but gawwwd... I'd rather have him out there than DJ. I wouldn't mind seeing them give Ben a shot soon.
Green looks like a rookie, where Djones was a solid vet, you knew what you were going to get with him. He was a floor leader on defense and that is hard to replace. I have no idea what Green will do at any given moment. Hopefully it doesn't involve difficult passes.

I like Mahinmi. Very happy with him on the team.

That said, lets let em stew in the pot a bit, maybe things will smooth out.

Frostwolf
11-05-2012, 01:06 AM
oh look, the real vnzla is back again.

barbosa was 6th man of the year half a decade ago.
dahntay is absolutely NOT one of the best defenders in the nba. sure he draws charges here and there, but you could say that about a half a dozen different bench players in the league.

vnzla81
11-05-2012, 01:26 AM
Couple things...

1) This post of yours is absolutely an overreaction.
2) I never said your opinion was an overreaction. I said your opinion can be an overreaction. So can my opinion. So can anyone's opinion.
3) Did you even read the rest of my post, or did you just stop after the first sentence? Because if you had actually read it, you would see that I more or less agree with you about the bench.

Yes I read your post I just didn't feel like commenting on your 3 games bench review, I felt like it was an overreaction :-p

cgg
11-05-2012, 01:30 AM
I could mix and match all of them except Lou and Mahinmi and not care to much about it.

rock747
11-05-2012, 01:55 AM
Losing DC is a downgrade. I think it's apparent DC is significantly better than Augustine. So far, Dahntay/Barbosa seems as though they would be more solid than Green but the verdict is still out. Mahimni is an upgrade over Lou. The major issue here is the loss of DC.

Pacerized
11-05-2012, 01:55 AM
I've said all along that I was disappointed in how DW spent our cap space and that this bench was a wash the players we lost. Ian is an upgrade over Lou but that alone doesn't mean giving him a 4 year deal was a good idea. We lost Barbosa and Jones as wing players and gained Green, I think overall that's a step down while I know most on here think that's an improvement. DC is absolutely a better PG then DJ and he's also cheaper and on a 1 year contract as well, I don't even see the distribution part coming out of DJ yet. Overall what we gained in Ian is lost in the other moves and considering we could have just signed Ian and kept the other players, that sucks. We also lost chemistry for no good reason if everything is a wash. I don't think any of that is an over reaction.

Unclebuck
11-05-2012, 10:14 AM
The problem is I don't miss any of the players we "got rid of". However I am after 3 games not excited about any of the new players we brought in.

The fact that Green is a great dunker means nothing to me. I worry that he has no idea how to play a team game. Not that he is selfish, but he just seems like he has no clue what he is doing.

Lance has played well but he's been here.

We have no choice however we are stuck with who we brought in and they could play better once they get settled in

ChicagoJ
11-05-2012, 11:15 AM
UB, I think the wing players, as a unit, will look a lot better when Danny returns. Right now we've got Paul as the #1 wing, and through three games I'd say that either Lance or Sam is our second best wing. Long term, that's not going to cut it. That's got to be one of the weakest wing lineups in the league without Danny.

Gerald Green looks lost with the starters. I'd suggest moving Sam or Lance into the starting lineup right now to let Green play with the second unit.

mitchbr
11-05-2012, 11:24 AM
I think Mahinmi is definitely an upgrade over Lou, Green is more athletic but Barbosa is a smarter player (most of the time). DJ vs DC is kind of a draw, though DC was much more solid defensively and made more hustle plays. Essentially Lance took Dahntay's spot and although he's had a couple solid games and did well on Saturday, I really miss Jones. He could make plays offensively when he wanted to and is one of the best wing defenders in the league. The second unit last year had less talent, but was scrappy as hell, and that's what I loved about it.

Unclebuck
11-05-2012, 11:39 AM
Gerald Green looks lost with the starters. I'd suggest moving Sam or Lance into the starting lineup right now to let Green play with the second unit.

The question I have, is he just lost no matter who he plays with or just the starters? Or will it just take him sometime to get settled in?

TheDavisBrothers
11-05-2012, 11:49 AM
Green was a double figure scorer, something DJ could never do

1. Green played in only 31 games on a terrible team (more opportunities to score), but with a great PG (even more opportunities to score), so I wouldn't get to hyped up with his scoring last year

2. Dahntay Jones actually averaged 10.2 ppg in 76 games in 2009/2010 with the Pacers, so he actually was a double figure scorer in a lot more games then Green

3. Regardless of 1 and 2, Green may well be the better player, but he's not really replacing Jones, so the comparison is pretty pointless. Green is more of Barbosas replacement rather then Jones (who is basically replaced by Young)

vnzla81
11-05-2012, 12:56 PM
By the way here are the bench players the Pacers bench players are going to probably play against on the playoffs:

Miami: Mike Miller, Haslem, Battier, Allen, Lewis, Cole, Joel Anthony.

Boston: Barbosa, Green, Terry, Sullinger, Wilcox, Bradley, Melo.

Brooklyn: Reggie Evans, CJ Watson, Brooks, Teletovic.

New York: Kidd, Novak, Camby, Shumpert, Kurt, Brewer, Prigioni.

Atlanta: Pachulia, Harris, Korver, Morrow, Farmar, Ivan, Petro, Stevenson.


The Pacers bench at least in paper is on the bottom compared to eastern conference top teams, Philly has the worst bench in my opinion.

pacer4ever
11-05-2012, 01:02 PM
The problem is I don't miss any of the players we "got rid of". However I am after 3 games not excited about any of the new players we brought in.

The fact that Green is a great dunker means nothing to me. I worry that he has no idea how to play a team game. Not that he is selfish, but he just seems like he has no clue what he is doing.

Lance has played well but he's been here.

We have no choice however we are stuck with who we brought in and they could play better once they get settled in

Green has never played a meaningful game or on a good team. I mean the dude has only been in the rotation twice in the NBA and they were both high lottery teams where guys just went out and got theirs. That was the reason I wasn't so high on the guy and I have to be proved wrong come playoff time that he can play in meaningful games.I dodnt ***** about it because his contract is really team friendly however im not expecting much the guy has never been there at any level.

docpaul
11-05-2012, 01:13 PM
It's been 3 games. They are new players to the team.

Perspective, folks.

Magic P
11-05-2012, 01:16 PM
I may be wrong but wasn't all the talk during training camp about Green was that he was a terrific passer?

pacer4ever
11-05-2012, 01:37 PM
I may be wrong but wasn't all the talk during training camp about Green was that he was a terrific passer?

No he isn't actually is really bad passer IMO. In fact I will say Djones and even Barbosa were much better passers and they are pretty bad passers themselves.

Ace E.Anderson
11-05-2012, 01:47 PM
It's been 3 games. They are new players to the team.

Perspective, folks.
This times 20

ChicagoJ
11-05-2012, 04:12 PM
The question I have, is he just lost no matter who he plays with or just the starters? Or will it just take him sometime to get settled in?


That's fair. I think in limited minutes Saturday night he looked more comfortable with the second unit than with the first unit.

Its a valid question, does he actually know how to play the game period? Sure, he's got mad skillzz, but that doesn't always translate to disciplined 5-on-5. He doesn't seem to know how to make contributions while being a complimentary player, and that's not going to work with the first unit where he's clearly the fifth option.

croz24
11-05-2012, 07:19 PM
Championships are won because of stars and great players, NOT because of that team's bench. Never understood the mindset thinking if we just add to our bench we can suddenly compete against LeBron and Wade. We'll compete against them if we ever attained a marquee player.

Pacer Fan
11-05-2012, 07:27 PM
I will miss DC cause he is better then what he was here and I think he will become a top 10 PG in the league.
I would like to have seen Pends get dealt with the rest of them.
Great off season moves by the FO.

Pacer Fan
11-05-2012, 07:41 PM
Championships are won because of stars and great players, NOT because of that team's bench. Never understood the mindset thinking if we just add to our bench we can suddenly compete against LeBron and Wade. We'll compete against them if we ever attained a marquee player.

I disagree, A teams bench is usually why teams do win championships. That 6th and 7th man is pivotal. History proves this. Many stars are born because of playoffs and championships.

croz24
11-05-2012, 08:38 PM
I disagree, A teams bench is usually why teams do win championships. That 6th and 7th man is pivotal. History proves this. Many stars are born because of playoffs and championships.

From 1980 to today, other than the 2004 Pistons, name for me just one team to win a title without a legitimate superstar......... Stars win titles, not bench players.

BlueNGold
11-05-2012, 08:46 PM
From 1980 to today, other than the 2004 Pistons, name for me just one team to win a title without a legitimate superstar......... Stars win titles, not bench players.

I understand your point and have made it myself, but a better bench is still an upgrade worth making. It will make the team a little more difficult to beat.

Ace E.Anderson
11-05-2012, 09:06 PM
I will miss DC cause he is better then what he was here and I think he will become a top 10 PG in the league.
I would like to have seen Pends get dealt with the rest of them.
Great off season moves by the FO.

Rondo, Paul, Williams, Irving, Westbrook, Parker, Lawson, Curry, Lillard....heck he wasn't even better than Hill.

I don't think DC will ever be more than average starter and really good backup. Too small, not enough court vision to be anything more.

And that's NO disrespect to DC at all whatsoever. But he was given MORE than enough chances to become something special/worth building around at the PG position and he didn't get it done.

LG33
11-05-2012, 09:16 PM
Rondo, Paul, Williams, Irving, Westbrook, Parker, Lawson, Curry, Lillard....heck he wasn't even better than Hill.

I don't think DC will ever be more than average starter and really good backup. Too small, not enough court vision to be anything more.

He'll probably never be Top 10 in the league, but that speaks more to the amount of talent at that position than any of DC's own shortcomings (which are well-documented on this forum). I agree with Pacer Fan in that he will almost definitely perform better in Dallas' offense than he did here. I'd be surprised if the stats don't favor Collison over George Hill at season's end (our "offense" doesn't flatter the PG), but I won't ruminate on his departure much more than I already have. If you believe in fit over talent, then we made an acceptable decision in keeping Hill. Paying him $40 million...well, that's another story.

In an unrelated aside, I think we owe some of Lance's maturation to Dahntay Jones, who seemed to be the closest with him last season (on the bench, if nothing more).

Ace E.Anderson
11-05-2012, 09:21 PM
He'll probably never be Top 10 in the league, but that speaks more to the amount of talent at that position than any of DC's own shortcomings (which are well-documented on this forum). I agree with Pacer Fan in that he will almost definitely perform better in Dallas' offense than he did here. I'd be surprised if the stats don't favor Collison over George Hill at season's end (our "offense" doesn't flatter the PG), but I won't ruminate on his departure much more than I already have. If you believe in fit over talent, then we made an acceptable decision in keeping Hill. Paying him $40 million...well, that's another story.

In an unrelated aside, I think we owe some of Lance's maturation to Dahntay Jones, who seemed to be the closest with him last season (on the bench, if nothing more).

i agree 100% with this entire post. Collison should have a chance to do as well as possible for him there in Dallas.

Pacer Fan
11-05-2012, 09:51 PM
From 1980 to today, other than the 2004 Pistons, name for me just one team to win a title without a legitimate superstar......... Stars win titles, not bench players.

Stars don't win championships, teams do. There have been many stars to never win and stars win do to the fact of teammates. To think that bench players don't make a difference in winning or losing is being out of touch with basketball. The Pacers starters out score their opponents starters more then about any team they played last year, but the bench couldn't maintain. I'm not saying that a team doesn't have to have a star, but to win they need each other and those great players become stars on the rise to championships. I think we have a couple great players...the team just needs to rise and with the help of a better bench, they might just do that like others have.

croz24
11-05-2012, 10:05 PM
Stars don't win championships, teams do. There have been many stars to never win and stars win do to the fact of teammates. To think that bench players don't make a difference in winning or losing is being out of touch with basketball. The Pacers starters out score their opponents starters more then about any team they played last year, but the bench couldn't maintain. I'm not saying that a team doesn't have to have a star, but to win they need each other and those great players become stars on the rise to championships. I think we have a couple great players...the team just needs to rise and with the help of a better bench, they might just do that like others have.

You can have a star and not win a championship. But you can't win a championship without a star. Unless, of course, you think 1/32 is good odds...

notque
11-05-2012, 11:42 PM
It's been 3 games. They are new players to the team.

Perspective, folks.

4 games.

dal9
11-06-2012, 12:04 AM
Damn DC 14 PTS 13 AST ! Did he ever do that here?

notque
11-06-2012, 12:08 AM
Damn DC 14 PTS 13 AST ! Did he ever do that here?

We don't run an offense that gets the PG assists!

PR07
11-06-2012, 12:32 AM
I don't miss the players we got rid of as much as I miss Danny Granger. Take away any one of a team's best players on short notice, and there's going to be a bit of an adjustment period. Pacers will either saddle up or they won't. It's too early to tell either way right now, but if we continue to play like we did tonight we already know the answer.

oz_pacer
11-06-2012, 11:58 AM
I wish we drafted pj3 held onto collision shipped dahntay for anything and signed kaman

31andonly
11-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Losing DC is a downgrade. I think it's apparent DC is significantly better than Augustine. So far, Dahntay/Barbosa seems as though they would be more solid than Green but the verdict is still out. Mahimni is an upgrade over Lou. The major issue here is the loss of DC.

Agree 100%.
IMO we gave away our best point guard.

presto123
11-06-2012, 03:13 PM
I don't but that whole Danny Granger is out excuse. What are you guys going to say that use this excuse when Granger comes back and we are still getting killed by the elite teams?

Hicks
11-06-2012, 05:23 PM
We don't run an offense that gets the PG assists!

Which is why there's little point in people wanting him back. Augustin is better than he looks right now, too.

Ace E.Anderson
11-06-2012, 05:39 PM
I don't but that whole Danny Granger is out excuse. What are you guys going to say that use this excuse when Granger comes back and we are still getting killed by the elite teams?

We weren't getting killed by elite teams last season, so idk why we would now--as long as Danny is healthy.

We can't make predictions when we haven't seen this current team play WITH Granger. We have no way of knowing what to expect, good or bad.

Ace E.Anderson
11-06-2012, 05:41 PM
Agree 100%.
IMO we gave away our best point guard.

If we had DC, he'd be miserable coming off the bench, and he wouldn't have made a difference last night. He may not have made much of a difference in any of the other games.

Freddie fan
11-06-2012, 06:31 PM
Does anybody remember how terrible Lou played in his first games for the Pacers? Yet, he started playing a lot better eventually and grew on many of us.

It's often hard for players to have the confidence they need to play to their potential as they figure out how they fit into a new team's personnel and system. You shouldn't judge our new players on the basis of their first few games.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 06:35 PM
Does anybody remember how terrible Lou played in his first games for the Pacers? Yet, he started playing a lot better eventually and grew on many of us.

:laugh: I don't remember that. He hustled, sure. But he SUCKED. Every once in a while he made some positive things happen with his hustle, but his lack of an NBA game did not grow on me. If he didn't have NBA size, none of us would even know his name.

dal9
11-06-2012, 07:20 PM
:laugh: I don't remember that. He hustled, sure. But he SUCKED. Every once in a while he made some positive things happen with his hustle, but his lack of an NBA game did not grow on me. If he didn't have NBA size, none of us would even know his name.

The funny thing is, he doesn't even have NBA size. Certainly not even close for a Center.

Pacergeek
11-06-2012, 08:01 PM
I had a bad feeling when all of our new bench players were all young, unproven guys. Contending teams have experienced and proven guys coming off their bench. Think Sam Perkins being signed in 1998

funnyguy1105
11-06-2012, 09:28 PM
I had a bad feeling when all of our new bench players were all young, unproven guys. Contending teams have experienced and proven guys coming off their bench. Think Sam Perkins being signed in 1998

But Green can dunk really well... Don't contending teams normally have that off the bench?

jrwannabe
11-06-2012, 09:45 PM
Lou didn't get a fair shake here. He is a PF shoved in a C position. Plus him and Tyler tried to do the same thing all the time and just ended up in each others way. Lou's best play came when we was on the floor the same time as West.

ChicagoJ
11-06-2012, 11:41 PM
The funny thing is, he doesn't even have NBA size. Certainly not even close for a Center.

Fair enough. However, relative to me, he has NBA size!!

Pacerized
11-07-2012, 02:15 AM
I wish we drafted pj3 held onto collision shipped dahntay for anything and signed kaman

Those are the exact things we should have done. Many will say that Kaman wouldn't have signed but he only got 1 year from Cuban for 8 mil. We could have offered him a longer deal on a winning team. We were the first team he talked to, we should have at least put an offer on the table.

notque
11-07-2012, 10:39 PM
It's been 3 games. They are new players to the team.

Perspective, folks.

5 games

vnzla81
11-07-2012, 10:40 PM
5 games

:laugh:

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Vnzla good sir, I was wrong nd have given up on the new guys for tonight. Tomorrow I'll act like I never said this lol but tonight, these new guys suck!

Sollozzo
11-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Augistin and Collison aren't even in the same league right now. Collison is playing like an absolute stud in Dallas while Augistin can't even get 15 minutes a game here. They aren't even close right now. I thought Augistin was supposed to be as good/better? Dumping DC is something the Pacers will regret deeply, if they haven't already.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 11:19 PM
Augistin and Collison aren't even in the same league right now. Collison is playing like an absolute stud in Dallas while Augistin can't even get 15 minutes a game here. They aren't even close right now. I thought Augistin was supposed to be as good/better? Dumping DC is something the Pacers will regret deeply, if they haven't already.

Hill is looking good for us, and DC didn't want to come off the bench....but I'm starting to think maybe we should have just dealt with his attitude bout coming off the bench for the season.

Johanvil
11-07-2012, 11:20 PM
If that's Augustin being creative,then i want DC back.Hell,we could use him as a scorer now and not as a creative pg.

cdash
11-07-2012, 11:20 PM
I thought Augistin was supposed to be as good/better?

The theory there is that he was supposed to be a better "fit" with our team. He's more of a distributor than a scorer like DC is. But anyone who was a key cog on the worst NBA team of all time is not someone I'm inclined to count on.

Sollozzo
11-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Hill is looking good for us, and DC didn't want to come off the bench....but I'm starting to think maybe we should have just dealt with his attitude bout coming off the bench for the season.

We should have just forced him to live with it because there isn't much he could have done about it. Plus he would have been a huge cog for us anyway with Granger out. We could really use his scoring. I have a hard time believing that an extremely mediocre big man is the best player we could get for him. DC is a young PG who has shown a lot of potential. I think we could have gotten a better package if we really felt we had to trade him.

I'd be fine with it if Augistin and DC were close, but they aren't even in the same league right now.

Ace E.Anderson
11-07-2012, 11:48 PM
We should have just forced him to live with it because there isn't much he could have done about it. Plus he would have been a huge cog for us anyway with Granger out. We could really use his scoring. I have a hard time believing that an extremely mediocre big man is the best player we could get for him. DC is a young PG who has shown a lot of potential. I think we could have gotten a better package if we really felt we had to trade him.

I'd be fine with it if Augistin and DC were close, but they aren't even in the same league right now.

In his two seasons here he never looked as good as he has for Dal. Never even close.

But I agree, we couldve done better

notque
11-08-2012, 12:13 AM
The theory there is that he was supposed to be a better "fit" with our team. He's more of a distributor than a scorer like DC is. But anyone who was a key cog on the worst NBA team of all time is not someone I'm inclined to count on.

But we don't use our PGs to distribute... so what does it matter how well he passes? He's going to pass to the PF at the top of the key every time down regardless.

vnzla81
11-08-2012, 12:16 AM
@AlexKennedyNBA: Jamal Crawford hasn't started a game, but he's fourth in scoring with 24 PPG. He trails only James Harden, Carmelo Anthony and Kobe Bryant.


I remember when he was on the Pacers radar and instead they got Green.

Trader Joe
11-08-2012, 12:26 AM
I think I asked back on twitter when we made the moves....are we sure DJ Augustin is actually better than Darren Collison? Guess we know the answer now.

Trader Joe
11-08-2012, 12:26 AM
@AlexKennedyNBA: Jamal Crawford hasn't started a game, but he's fourth in scoring with 24 PPG. He trails only James Harden, Carmelo Anthony and Kobe Bryant.


I remember when he was on the Pacers radar and instead they got Green.

Now, now, were we going to get Chris Paul too?

notque
11-08-2012, 12:33 AM
I think I asked back on twitter when we made the moves....are we sure DJ Augustin is actually better than Darren Collison? Guess we know the answer now.

DJ is supposed to be better at running an offense, and worse at defense and scoring.

Our offense doesn't involve the PG running the offense. So you'd think defense and scoring would be the priority for us....

CableKC
11-08-2012, 02:40 AM
I'm gonna reach back in time and say that a Player that I miss that we ( indirectly ) got rid of ( by not matching his RFA offer ) is Jarrett Jack. I know...I'm stretching it...I'm just saying that I'd wish that we somehow got Jarrett Jack and REALLY HOPE that the FO goes after him in the 2013-2014 Offseason as our Backup PG / 1st Guard off the bench. :pray: He's a vet and a really stable PG...way more than what DJ is ( at least for now ).

Eleazar
11-08-2012, 02:55 AM
Lucky for us DJ is on only a one year contract, and if he doesn't improve we are not chained to anything beyond this season with him.

HOOPFANATIC
11-08-2012, 08:51 AM
Darren had many great games here. He was awesome in the Chicago series against DRose. and he really was crucial in in the Orlando series last year as well. I liked DC, but once again our front office screwed someone over. Here is how I see it ; we brought DC here two years ago to be our starting point guard and he had to contend with OBie's schemes for his first half of the season and then had a decent season. We rewarded his pretty good season with getting more competition at his spot. I didn't watch that Chicago series that year saying man we sure need another small guard. In the shortened season Darren had a good season we improved our record drastically. After DC went down with that injury, we had a really light schedule we played Toronto we played Minny, Cleveland and all of them were missing starters, and we had to grind almost all of them. George became the starter, and everyone inexplicably forgot that Darren had started almost every game during the season. So now what I see is a continuation of guys struggling to play together that don't have the same chemistry they had with DC, especially Roy and David. As for the bench we replaced a bunch of 30-year-old journeyman vets with a 25 year old D league all-star, the 24 year old floor leader on the worst team in NBA history, and a 26 year old 6-11 French croissant.
Not to mention several other young guys. We need some vets if we plan on winning you don't win in this league without vets.......and Michael Petrus ain't going to cut it. You need somebody that's going to come in and yell at these guys will we lose our yell at them when they make mistakes we need Kenyan mart guys been to two finals in the playoffs many times you can see the intensity that the clippers at when they had him last year. And enough rambling.



Why do you think Carlisle wanted him. Our problem is our front office always wants an passing point guard

McKeyFan
11-09-2012, 08:14 AM
The funny thing is, he doesn't even have NBA size. Certainly not even close for a Center.

He was like 0-25 before he hit his first shot.

Justin Tyme
11-09-2012, 10:27 AM
I'm gonna reach back in time and say that a Player that I miss that we ( indirectly ) got rid of ( by not matching his RFA offer ) is Jarrett Jack. I know...I'm stretching it...I'm just saying that I'd wish that we somehow got Jarrett Jack and REALLY HOPE that the FO goes after him in the 2013-2014 Offseason as our Backup PG / 1st Guard off the bench. :pray: He's a vet and a really stable PG...way more than what DJ is ( at least for now ).


That was a absolute blunder on Bird's part. I've said it for 3 years now.

2 years later Bird trades for Hill a combo guard to play PG. Just SMH.

jtroub8
11-09-2012, 03:46 PM
They replaced a former 6th man of the year in Barbosa, a guy that was considered one of the best defenders in the NBA in DJ, one of the best backup point guards in the league in DC and a pretty decent and cheap PF/C in Lou, in reality that group was not as bad as many believe and yes they sucked against Lebron and Dwade, let me know what bench doesn't.

Not so much overreacting as over exaggerating. How long ago was it that Barbosa won 6th man & DJ one of the best defenders in the NBA? WOW

vnzla81
11-09-2012, 11:24 PM
5 games

6 games.

cgg
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
Yep I miss them now.

notque
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
6 games.

Got to it right before I could! Thanks! :)

cgg
11-09-2012, 11:26 PM
Sign Mahinmi and call it a day would have been way better.

presto123
11-09-2012, 11:30 PM
I stand by my original post. Green and Augustine have been disasters and Mahinmi has just been meh.

ReggiesUncle
11-10-2012, 01:55 AM
I thought they had great momentum heading into the off season w the group they had. Really wish they wouldnt have made the moves when they did


Didnt like them at the time and obviously dont like them now

Dont fix what isnt broken I say

CableKC
11-10-2012, 04:55 AM
That was a absolute blunder on Bird's part. I've said it for 3 years now.

2 years later Bird trades for Hill a combo guard to play PG. Just SMH.
Just make up for it by getting him in the offseason. IMHO...He could be had probably for $4 mil+ and would be guaranteed the same role ( if not more ) that he has in Golden State. :shrug:

notque
11-13-2012, 10:12 PM
6 games.

8 games

sportfireman
11-14-2012, 03:32 AM
I miss the players we didn't get rid of.

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 11:32 PM
9 games.

vnzla81
11-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Barbosa had 16 points today.

Ace E.Anderson
11-15-2012, 11:35 AM
I miss the HELL out of Danny Granger

vnzla81
11-18-2012, 05:16 PM
It's been 3 games. They are new players to the team.

Perspective, folks.

11 games.

presto123
11-18-2012, 09:32 PM
11 games.
I said people would still be saying that 40 games in:)

15th parallel
11-18-2012, 09:37 PM
The one I miss are not the players we got rid of, but the starters that were supposed to be one of the best group in the league, especially Roy Hibbert. They just looked like crap as compared to last season.