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View Full Version : Pacers/Bobcats postgame thread. 2012 !!!



vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:23 PM
Great game by Tyler, horrible game by Green, ok game for Roy, PG, West and Hill.


Lance was the man at times.

NapTonius Monk
11-02-2012, 09:24 PM
We need Danny back

Dr. Hibbert
11-02-2012, 09:25 PM
This is a very dumb basketball team. Maybe that will change. But as long as Vogel sticks to what doesn't work, don't count on it.

Also, I'm pretty much done with the Pacers ever going to PG24 in the clutch. That guy just does not execute in the clutch.

rel
11-02-2012, 09:25 PM
Gerald Green...smh. All excitement for the guy is completely gone.
Vogel really needs to stop being so stubborn on his rotation. The fact that Green played for even half the minutes he did today was costly.


Great game from Tyler and Lance

rock747
11-02-2012, 09:25 PM
Trying to find a positive here. Can't.

Hypnotiq
11-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Tyler and lance can hold there head high everyone else look down in shame.

Frank was terrible aswell tonight lets not forget that his subs are awful

Mr_Smith
11-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Gerald Green is horrible and we need #33 back asap. Good night everbody. Lets beat the kings tomorrow.

PacersHomer
11-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Trying to find a positive here. Can't.

Lance and Tyler were big positives, but the bad outweighs the good. We need a blowout win ASAP.

PGisthefuture
11-02-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm speechless...

beast23
11-02-2012, 09:28 PM
Trying to find a positive here. Can't.
The positive would be the plus/minus stats for the subs.

The negatives? Well, that would be the plus/minus stat for each starter.

rexnom
11-02-2012, 09:28 PM
Trying to find a positive here. Can't.
Really? The bench scoring from a big? DJ looking solid at times? Lance looking as good as Green looked bad? Nothing positive.

Obviously, we miss Danny like crazy. It's tough to run things through an injured Hill and West in crunch time. And guys like Paul George and Hibbert aren't really dominant scorers--they need a scorer to draw the attention off.

Dukins
11-02-2012, 09:28 PM
Like George Hill but would rather see Augustine start. We survived Toronto and tonight proves we need pure point guard skills. Also for whatever reason we hard not hustling has hard as I would like to see. It's like we expect to win the game against these scrubs without even playing them. Might just be game aftershock jmho.

PacersHomer
11-02-2012, 09:28 PM
I'd rather see OJ in before Green at this point.

Heisenberg
11-02-2012, 09:29 PM
PG **** the bed on the last play. You can't let Kemba Walker drive you 25 feet away from the basket.

BlueCollarColts
11-02-2012, 09:29 PM
the man to blame is not Green, it is Vogel. Our offense has no flow and no rhythm, and that is on Vogel

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:31 PM
I think Vogel made a mistake by taking Tyler and Lance out they were playing well.

Heisenberg
11-02-2012, 09:31 PM
it is kinda interesting that we probably played better tonight than against Toronto but since one basket went the wrong way the reaction will be completely different

Pace Maker
11-02-2012, 09:32 PM
I know some sunshiners will come here and tell people to stop having meltdowns because its the 2nd game of the season, but if you don't think this team has serious issues you're kidding yourself.

Say what you will about Danny Granger, but at least he was a consistent 3 point threat and he wasn't scared to shoot the ball. You definitely can't say that about Green and PGeorge.

billbradley
11-02-2012, 09:32 PM
Eh, law of averages. Everybody's gotta win sometime.

BlueNGold
11-02-2012, 09:33 PM
Just count your blessings that we picked Granger instead of Gerald Green in the 2005 draft. Danny will be back, and yes he is needed. But we lost this game because we took the Bob Kitties lightly. I highly suspect we play better against teams we respect. ...which is about par for the course in the NBA.

Dece
11-02-2012, 09:33 PM
Gonna bring my post here from the game thread because I want answers, where is our offense? Why do we stand around for 15 seconds of every play? I accepted that we didn't have a training camp to install an offense last year and defense was the priority. Where is it this year? This is back to back games against non playoff teams where we struggled to have any sort of flow and turned the ball over like crazy. Almost 20 turnovers a game... against the Raptors and Bobcats. A real defense is going to eat us alive.

8 points 1 dime for our $40M point guard.

7 points 7 rebounds for our max contract center.

We stand around so much on offense I feel like I'm watching a pickup game where everyone is winded from the first 2 pickup games. This is not fun to watch and those contracts are looking like monumental mistakes.

righteouscool
11-02-2012, 09:34 PM
PG **** the bed on the last play. You can't let Kemba Walker drive you 25 feet away from the basket.

Paul is a foot taller than Kemba. That would be an idle match up if it were 10 feet from the rim, not 30.

TheDavisBrothers
11-02-2012, 09:34 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, the sky is officially falling

In all seriousness, I was very impressed with Lance and while he still made mistakes, you see his development and potential. That's what I'll take from tonight's game and try to forget the rest...

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:35 PM
it is kinda interesting that we probably played better tonight than against Toronto but since one basket went the wrong way the reaction will be completely different

They looked like crap in both games but I agree with you.

Heisenberg
11-02-2012, 09:36 PM
Just count your blessings that we picked Granger instead of Gerald Green in the 2005 draft. Danny will be back, and yes he is needed. But we lost this game because we took the Bob Kitties lightly. I highly suspect we play better against teams we respect. ...which is about par for the course in the NBA.
Danny definitely helped more than Green tonight.

xtacy
11-02-2012, 09:36 PM
ok game for Roy

7 pts 7 rebs 4 fouls against guys like haywood and thomas. if that's ok from our all-star center that got paid well, we are ****ed. no other word to describe it.

he was mentally somewhere else today.

Dece
11-02-2012, 09:36 PM
My reaction to the Raptors game was extreme concern and dismay. Same as this game. The difference is when it's the only game of the season you can call it a fluke and say oh well, its a win. When its 2 games in a row, even if we had won this playing so awfully I'd be here complaining and saying it's a trend that can't continue. The outcome doesn't change the concern - we are not playing like a playoff team, let alone a top tier team.

rock747
11-02-2012, 09:36 PM
I don't know what to even say about Gerald Green... dude missed some shots and it totally took him out of the game. You can't be THAT mentally weak and be an NBA player.

Heisenberg
11-02-2012, 09:37 PM
Hill has to guard Isaiah Thomas tomorrow. That'll be fun.

xtacy
11-02-2012, 09:37 PM
the man to blame is not Green, it is Vogel. Our offense has no flow and no rhythm, and that is on Vogel

this. last year the excuse was no training camp. this year there is no excuse.

CableKC
11-02-2012, 09:38 PM
This is a very dumb basketball team. Maybe that will change. But as long as Vogel sticks to what doesn't work, don't count on it.

Also, I'm pretty much done with the Pacers ever going to PG24 in the clutch. That guy just does not execute in the clutch.
To be fair.....up until last season....he's hasn't had to be.....he's never been relied upon to be "the man"...and he's never struck me as someone that wants to be that guy.

I don't know why DJ was standing at the 3pt line when we needed a 2 pt basket.....but regardless.....at the end of a game like that....I'm EXPECTING either GH or West to take that shot....no one else.

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Gonna bring my post here from the game thread because I want answers, where is our offense? Why do we stand around for 15 seconds of every play? I accepted that we didn't have a training camp to install an offense last year and defense was the priority. Where is it this year? This is back to back games against non playoff teams where we struggled to have any sort of flow and turned the ball over like crazy. Almost 20 turnovers a game... against the Raptors and Bobcats. A real defense is going to eat us alive.

8 points 1 dime for our $40M point guard.

7 points 7 rebounds for our max contract center.

We stand around so much on offense I feel like I'm watching a pickup game where everyone is winded from the first 2 pickup games. This is not fun to watch and those contracts are looking like monumental mistakes.

The system is setup to take the ball inside at anytime and if Roy or West are not doing anything the whole system collapses, the Pacers are also missing good passers, so anybody that tries to makes a pass struggles.

Shade
11-02-2012, 09:39 PM
The good news is, there probably won't be a worse loss this season.

Heisenberg
11-02-2012, 09:39 PM
The good news is, there probably won't be a worse loss this season.

wanna bet?

rock747
11-02-2012, 09:41 PM
The good news is, there probably won't be a worse loss this season.

Wait til we get blown out by 30 by the Heat on TNT...

Gold
11-02-2012, 09:43 PM
I'm really really hoping I'm just being premature in my judgement but..................I think I want our old bench back. I'm disappointed in the new players these first couple of games.

EDIT: Well, most of it. I'd still want it so Lance Stephenson is playing.

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:43 PM
The good news is, there probably won't be a worse loss this season.

I wouldn't be sure about that.

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 09:45 PM
I'm really really hoping I'm just being premature in my judgement but..................I think I want our old bench back. I'm disappointed in the new players these first couple of games.

EDIT: Well, most of it. I'd still want it so Lance Stephenson is playing.

The bench looks like the bench I expected to see....... not much of an upgrade from last year.

Note: I know is only 2 games by the way so don't go all crazy about my comment :twocents:

gummy
11-02-2012, 09:48 PM
Well that was a sucky cherry on top of a sucky day.

Waste of a good game from Tyler and Lance.

Is it just me, or are these games a bit more physical than we usually see to start the season?

I think our team was just not ready for the opening night intensity of either team and they took them lightly. You'd think they would have learned after the Toronto game.

Gerald Green looks awful so far. I suspect he would be better if he was playing the role he was brought in to play. Having to thrust him into the starting lineup didn't do him any favors.

And what the heck has happened to our free throw shooting this year? I guess it'll even out, but yikes!

Sandman21
11-02-2012, 09:50 PM
Aberration. Couldn't hit our freebies. It happens. Move onto the next game.

xBulletproof
11-02-2012, 09:50 PM
All these posts and nobody mentions how horrible we were from the FT line? That's why we lost. When you shoot in the 50's in the percent from the FT line and lose by 1, I'll always point at that.

imawhat
11-02-2012, 09:51 PM
Found the huge hole in Gerald Green's game. He is unable to make an entry pass.


I would've rooted for Charlotte had we not played them. They played really hard and that's admirable.

King Tuts Tomb
11-02-2012, 09:51 PM
Lot of overreaction here. Not that bad a loss. I thought going into the season that the Bobcats were gonna be a credible NBA team (unlike last year when they weren't a credible D League team).

Pacers couldn't hit a shot and still almost pulled it out. Losing close games is part of an 82 game season. As long as we're in games and competing then I'm happy, although of course I always want to finish with the win.

Gold
11-02-2012, 09:51 PM
The bench looks like the bench I expected to see....... not much of an upgrade from last year.

Note: I know is only 2 games by the way so don't go all crazy about my comment :twocents:

I was part of the "It looks like we've improved the bench!" party. But right now.... :(

Cousy47
11-02-2012, 09:52 PM
I wouldn't be sure about that.

Got home late and watched on dvr. We missed 11 FTs??!! I know what my team would be doing tomorrow if I was the Coach. And why the Hell did we take Lance and Tyler out of the game? Damn, Frank, dance with the one that brought you to the dance!

CJ Jones
11-02-2012, 09:52 PM
Yuck.

Hopefully Hill's injury is to blame, but right now he's moving in slow motion on both ends. Seemed like we were always getting into our sets with 13 seconds or less because he walked the ball up, barely getting past half court before the 8 sec violation. He was pretty bad tonight.

Greens game couldn't get much worse. Fell asleep constantly on his man, took a few bad shots, and made some awful passes.

Hope Lance can get a little love. He had a couple bad turnovers at the end of the 3rd but otherwise he had a great game. He could of easily had 7 or 8 assists if we knocked down some shots

Roy 3/4 shooting. All 3 makes on put backs...smh cmon coach.

Dr. Awesome
11-02-2012, 09:53 PM
I know its early, but I've seen enough. I'm actually calm right now and while I'm upset about the loss its not effecting my overall view on things.

Paul George has been a huge let down. The thing is, he isn't playing bad at all, but he is again deferring to others. He took over the first 8 minutes of the season and I was so happy, since that first 8 minutes he has just been a by stander on offense. He is rebounding well, passing well, and all of that, but if the guy isn't willing to take over the game we are in trouble.

Frank Vogel needs to stop with these BS rotations. We lost against Miami last year because he was too caught up on playing the bench. Tonight the bench played decent, but again, it seemed as if their minutes were all planned out and there was nothing that could change that.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about anything else. Its early on. But if Paul George doesn't show that he will put the team on his back when we need him to, then we are going to be stuck at a yearly second round exit until we make a significant change in the roster. That worries me. Also, Frank Vogel needs to learn how to react and adapt to each game and other teams strategies. He is a likable guy, but not proving to be a very good coach. Those things worry me, not the loss.

McKeyFan
11-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Is it just me, or are these games a bit more physical than we usually see to start the season?


It appears that way. I like it.

Of course, I don't like it when it looks like we get fouled (whoever's ox is gored). But I have been getting really fed up with the ticky tack, pansy @ss style of basketball we've seen the past few years. Bring back the 90s.

tomkat1971
11-02-2012, 09:56 PM
My reaction to the Raptors game was extreme concern and dismay. Same as this game. The difference is when it's the only game of the season you can call it a fluke and say oh well, its a win. When its 2 games in a row, even if we had won this playing so awfully I'd be here complaining and saying it's a trend that can't continue. The outcome doesn't change the concern - we are not playing like a playoff team, let alone a top tier team.

It seems like we've got outhustled in both of our games so far. Kemba Walker just ate George Hill alive tonight. Walker scored 30+ on him and drove past him at will. Our offense looks stagnant and we can't seem to score when we do fast break. Outside of early in the Raptors game Hibbert has been nearly invisible. Big thing I've noticed is just an overall feeling that we look slow as a team. Hopefully this all will change and work itself out but so far Ive been disappointed in this team.

rock747
11-02-2012, 09:57 PM
Was there any mention of Granger's status on the Pacers broadcast tonight?

idioteque
11-02-2012, 09:58 PM
No offensive flow whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if we're even running a real ****ing offense, looks like an ugly version of Rucker Park at times.

And for those Granger haters, yeah I hope you realize we really need him back.

Derek2k3
11-02-2012, 09:59 PM
I know some sunshiners will come here and tell people to stop having meltdowns because its the 2nd game of the season, but if you don't think this team has serious issues you're kidding yourself.

Say what you will about Danny Granger, but at least he was a consistent 3 point threat and he wasn't scared to shoot the ball. You definitely can't say that about Green and PGeorge.

It's hard to make a quality analysis of anything after a 2.4% sample size. Sure, this team has struggled mightily at moments. However, they've also showed tenacity in getting back into games they have no business winning.

Hill certainly seems limited, but looked better tonight than Wednesday. Lance had his best "meaningful" performance in a Pacers uniform. Mahinmi has played well, and Him/Tyler have been decent together. Big improvement over the Lou/Tyler lineup.

I'm certainly disappointed in the loss, but I can look at it realistically and see that the team is still gelling. Hill hasn't gotten his rhythm back, Green isn't comfortable with the starters. That'll come.

All of the issues are fixable, and fixable fast. The team needs to play with a greater level of focus, make free throws, and focus on moving the ball.

Can't wait for tomorrow.

gummy
11-02-2012, 09:59 PM
Yuck.

Hopefully Hill's injury is to blame, but right now he's moving in slow motion on both ends. Seemed like we were always getting into our sets with 13 seconds or less because he walked the ball up, barely getting past half court before the 8 sec violation. He was pretty bad tonight.


Hip pointers are pretty painful. I had this issue in high school. It hurt to freaking cough or laugh, let alone playing basketball at a professional level. Took 4 or 5 weeks to completely heal, but I stopped playing for the first two weeks.

PGisthefuture
11-02-2012, 10:00 PM
I don't know if it's Granger missing or what, but something doesn't feel quite right about this team. I hope it's just all the guys trying to get used to each other or whatever.

idioteque
11-02-2012, 10:01 PM
I don't know if it's Granger missing or what, but something doesn't feel quite right about this team. I hope it's just all the guys trying to get used to each other or whatever.

I have had the same weird vibe about this group. I'm just not sold. Then again I sort of fell in love with the team last year, even fairly marginal guys like D Jones and Lou who are gone.

Nuntius
11-02-2012, 10:02 PM
The good part:

1) Lance played good. He was aggressive but not out of control.

2) Tyler was very good. It's evident that DJ will help him a lot.

The bad:

1) We had 19 turnovers. That's horrible. Last season we didn't commit a lot of turnovers and that won us a lot of games. In these first two games we've commited a lot of turnovers. And that's going to cost us. It did today.

2) We shot 59.30% from the FT. That's unacceptable. That's not Pacers basketball!

The very things that defined us last year. Taking care of the ball and making our free throws. They're not here in these first 2 games.

InYaFace
11-02-2012, 10:02 PM
First of all...if we need to trade Tyler one day, ship him to Charlotte cause he will have a great career there, at least at the home games.

Player of the game for the Pacers tonight? Lance Stephenson!

I don't know what to think of a guy who is my age and who struggled his first years in a pro league?!
Maybe it's only because of the fact that we are the same age, but I do think if Lance gets a real opportunity where he plays a consistent role and gets his minutes every night, he will develope into a fairly acceptable guard, who can give you a lot of good things when he is hot!
Last game he had 5 points on 2 of 3 shooting and 4 boards in 13 minutes. Tonight he makes 15 points on 6 of 9 shooting with 6 boards, 4 Ast, 2 Stl and 3 TOs in 25 minutes.
I am sorry, but I think he has all the rights in the world to get an opportunity to show if he can really hit his shot every game, because if he will, he can be really good!

After seeing Gerald struggle, I would give Lance the opportunity tomorrow...maybe the atmosphere will electrify him :).
I am not too worried about Green though, because I think he really wants it and sets himself under a lot of pressure! When you are new to a team, that just gave you a big chance, you pressure yourself to a level, where you play like he did the last two games. I think it's is a bit unfair, to put him in a position where he puts himself even more under pressure as a starter.
It's now the 3rd year for Lance, he knows this team and the starters a little bit better, so I don't see why he shouldn't start tomorrow.
I love his game and his style to find the open man in a great position. A lot of people say DC is fast, but when Lance is in the open court, I would say he is not too far behind. At least to me it feels like he is freaking fast with the ball in his hands and has a fast first step.

So that's enough love for him...please Frank, just give him a real opportunity, so we finally know if he is worth it...I mean Paul George isn't all that great too until now, but he gets a hell lot more opportunities than Lance.

vnzla81
11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
No offensive flow whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if we're even running a real ****ing offense, looks like an ugly version of Rucker Park at times.

And for those Granger haters, yeah I hope you realize we really need him back.

Like somebody already said, if you need Danny Granger to beat the Bobcats this team is in real trouble, the bench was supposed to be improved for a reason, Roy and Hill are getting pay huge money for a reason, again this team is supposed to be deep.

Anthem
11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
But we lost this game because we took the Bob Kitties lightly.
Agreed. You could tell the Pacers were just waiting for the Bobcats to roll over and die.

Never happened. Their crowd kept them in it.

PacerPenguins
11-02-2012, 10:03 PM
disappointed

Nuntius
11-02-2012, 10:06 PM
Agreed. You could tell the Pacers were just waiting for the Bobcats to roll over and die.

Never happened. Their crowd kept them in it.

If the team has started taking other teams lightly then that's baaaaaad news.

Anthem
11-02-2012, 10:06 PM
I was part of the "It looks like we've improved the bench!" party. But right now.... :(
Ian's still better than Lou. Tyler's better. Green would be playing better on the bench. Lance is better.

The bench is upgraded, but when you're missing your best player everything gets thrown off.

McKeyFan
11-02-2012, 10:07 PM
1) We had 19 turnovers. That's horrible. Last season we didn't commit a lot of turnovers and that won us a lot of games. In these first two games we've commited a lot of turnovers. And that's going to cost us. It did today.

PG had 5 turnovers and got his shot blocked 3 times. :smh:

Kid Minneapolis
11-02-2012, 10:11 PM
I'm pretty disappointed with what I've seen thus far.

- Our offense sucks. I'm not just saying this because we lost, I'd say it also if we had somehow won that game. There is no flow, bad movement, bad passes, poor shooting, poor judgement. It's just bad. The system is bad, I knew it would kill us in the playoffs last year (it wasn't our defense), and somehow it's regressed even more this year. It's the achilles heel of this team. Our offensive system is just harsh to watch. We've seen way too many guys come into this system and perform worse than they have in other cities. You can only throw it down to David West so much, and when that isn't going, there's just.... nothing.
- Free throw shooting is atrocious. This is two straight games of clanking half our *free* shots at the rim.
- It's pretty plain to me that PG is what he is at htis point. Decent player, but continues to disappear down the stretch and defer. This is his big chance, and so far it's just more of the same from last year.
- Gerald Green is getting his 2nd chance, and flopping hard. It was a bad game tonight on his part. When Lance Stephenson gets the nod over you, you have work to do.
- I'm not liking Vogel's rotations and substitutions. This is the 2nd straight game that I'm watching our main guys sitting on the bench until the 6:00 mark, and then he slowly trickles them back in. There is no cohesion in the 1st and 2nd units, because he's mixing and matching them up so much. And leaving our best players out until well past the crucial point is just silly.

Just bad. I don't buy that missing Granger is the cause for all this. This team has it's head up its *** at the moment, not knowing what the hell to do. Buncha dumb plays and turnovers and just all around sloppiness. I'm fairly certain at my advanced age, I could come out there and make more damn plays and hit more shots than these jokers. Not even joking.

Losing to a team that had not won in 23 games is just ridiculous. They gave us every opportunity to win the damn thing, too, and we just kept shooting ourselves in the foot.

These guys just need to do their damn jobs and stop hesitating and pussy-footin around, be more decisive and just make plays, shoot the damn ball *in* to the hole. To a man, this entire team can play way better basketball. If it wasn't for a good David West 4th quarter, we'd be sittin at a pretty bad 0-2. Pretty bad when *I'm* complaining, I'm usually a defender 'til the end, but the overall product I've seen this year on the floor is sub-par to say the least, and this was after a "good off-season" and "chemistry and cohesiveness", and blah blah blah, etc....

Gold
11-02-2012, 10:12 PM
Ian's still better than Lou. Tyler's better. Green would be playing better on the bench. Lance is better.

The bench is upgraded, but when you're missing your best player everything gets thrown off.

I do think our old bench players are better. I'm just not sure about the new additions. I do agree that Ian is better than Lou though.

Justin Tyme
11-02-2012, 10:14 PM
7 pts 7 rebs 4 fouls against guys like haywood and thomas. if that's ok from our all-star center that got paid well, we are ****ed. no other word to describe it.

he was mentally somewhere else today.




Hibbert isn't a mentally tough player. We've seen every year Hibbert meltdown under pressure. He always has and always will. What's so frustrating is his poor play against the PuddyCats. He should have been dominating instead of playing down to their level.

McKeyFan
11-02-2012, 10:15 PM
I do think our old bench players are better. I'm just not sure about the new additions. I do agree that Ian is better than Lou though.
The bench played great tonight. The starters sucked.

InYaFace
11-02-2012, 10:24 PM
- Gerald Green is getting his 2nd chance, and flopping hard. It was a bad game tonight on his part. When Lance Stephenson gets the nod over you, you have work to do.


Ehm sorry, but I don't get that? Why does it seem like Lance Stephenson is commonly seen as a symbol for a bad player???
Lance is 22 and had his maturity problems, which they solved in a really good way I think. But please, and I mean that how I say it, please tell me one time, when we saw him play a number of games and thought to ourselves, that he is really really bad, just like we did it today with Gerald Green???
When I think of a bad point guard who likes hsooting, I think more of an AJ Price kinda guy, who I think has not a lot of room to improve and not of a Lance Stephenson, who in my eyes still has a lot of potential!

Kid Minneapolis
11-02-2012, 10:28 PM
Ehm sorry, but I don't get that? Why does it seem like Lance Stephenson is commonly seen as a symbol for a bad player???
Lance is 22 and had his maturity problems, which they solved in a really good way I think. But please, and I mean that how I say it, please tell me one time, when we saw him play a number of games and thought to ourselves, that he is really really bad, just like we did it today with Gerald Green???
When I think of a bad point guard who likes hsooting, I think more of an AJ Price kinda guy, who I think has not a lot of room to improve and not of a Lance Stephenson, who in my eyes still has a lot of potential!

My main point really is that we have been awful, if you didn't get that from my post. I really hope you're not focusing on Lance, lol.

gummy
11-02-2012, 10:28 PM
If the team has started taking other teams lightly then that's baaaaaad news.

Yes, it is. Vogel talked about not getting overconfident but perhaps that message didn't sink in with all the hype (at least around the team if not the national media) surrounding the team.

I hope we will be able to look back on this almost fondly as the early season wake-up call they needed to keep things in perspective.

Justin Tyme
11-02-2012, 10:29 PM
Paul George has been a huge let down. The thing is, he isn't playing bad at all, but he is again deferring to others. He took over the first 8 minutes of the season and I was so happy, since that first 8 minutes he has just been a by stander on offense. He is rebounding well, passing well, and all of that, but if the guy isn't willing to take over the game we are in trouble.


PG reminds me of another Pacer player who had a ton of talent, but never used all the talent he had at his disposal... Derrick McKey. McKey could fade from a game just as easily as he could take one over. PG following the same pattern.

Kid Minneapolis
11-02-2012, 10:31 PM
Yes, it is. Vogel talked about not getting overconfident but perhaps that message didn't sink in with all the hype (at least around the team if not the national media) surrounding the team.

I hope we will be able to look back on this almost fondly as the early season wake-up call they needed to keep things in perspective.

It's been 6 bad quarters, and maybe 2 good quarters so far. We're getting out-played by, imo, lesser teams. The Raps and 'Cats have both improved, but we should still be winning these games, handily. We are just looking really bad out there.

Jessen
11-02-2012, 10:32 PM
We can all agree on one thing: We've played like crap these first 2 games. The sky isn't falling. The season is not lost. We need to work on both sides of the ball and figure out how this team is going to gel together. Hey at least we aren't the 0-2 and one of the absolute favorites to win it all after acquiring 2 HUGE pieces. Can you imagine how their fan base feels right now?

gummy
11-02-2012, 10:35 PM
PG reminds me of another Pacer player who had a ton of talent, but never used all the talent he had at his disposal... Derrick McKey. McKey could fade from a game just as easily as he could take one over. PG following the same pattern.

I said something to the effect of PG and Rush having similar issues (passiveness and tendency to disappear after coming out of their shells briefly) last year and several people jumped all over me. But it was in his draft reports for pitty's sake. It's a real issue.

Doesn't mean he can't overcome it. But he's going to need plan to build better assertiveness. It's not going to just happen magically. And I think sometimes guys do try, they just never figure out how to put it all together.

:sigh:

Dukins
11-02-2012, 10:37 PM
PG reminds me of another Pacer player who had a ton of talent, but never used all the talent he had at his disposal... Derrick McKey. McKey could fade from a game just as easily as he could take one over. PG following the same pattern.

Ditt ***+*% O

gummy
11-02-2012, 10:38 PM
It's been 6 bad quarters, and maybe 2 good quarters so far. We're getting out-played by, imo, lesser teams. The Raps and 'Cats have both improved, but we should still be winning these games, handily. We are just looking really bad out there.

Yep. Not sure if you quoted me because you disagree or because you wanted to expand on it. I think what I said is compatible with what you said in any case. I think overconfidence is part of the reason we're getting outplayed. When you're getting beaten by teams that are less talented, effort/mindset and the quality of their preparation both come into question.

wtelfair
11-02-2012, 10:43 PM
My reaction to the Raptors game was extreme concern and dismay. Same as this game. The difference is when it's the only game of the season you can call it a fluke and say oh well, its a win. When its 2 games in a row, even if we had won this playing so awfully I'd be here complaining and saying it's a trend that can't continue. The outcome doesn't change the concern - we are not playing like a playoff team, let alone a top tier team.

The miami heat got blew out of the gym tonight by the New York Bricks. Some other favorite teams got beat handily also, so its appears teams are playing above their potential to beat the contending teams. Just my opinion.

Pacerized
11-02-2012, 10:45 PM
Ian's still better than Lou. Tyler's better. Green would be playing better on the bench. Lance is better.

The bench is upgraded, but when you're missing your best player everything gets thrown off.

I still say it's a wash at best but we paid more and handed out 2 long term deals. Some preseason success didn't change my opinion on that.
DC>AJ, Barbosa>Green (I know most will disagree until Green stinks for a few more games) Ian>Lou but I still don't like the 4 year contract, and Jones would have been a nice option to have tonight. .
Danny is missed and the longer he's out the more the Granger haters might have to begin to concede that we still need him to lead this team. He was missed just as much in our first win as in our first loss.

BlueNGold
11-02-2012, 10:50 PM
I said something to the effect of PG and Rush having similar issues (passiveness and tendency to disappear after coming out of their shells briefly) last year and several people jumped all over me. But it was in his draft reports for pitty's sake. It's a real issue.

Doesn't mean he can't overcome it. But he's going to need plan to build better assertiveness. It's not going to just happen magically. And I think sometimes guys do try, they just never figure out how to put it all together.

:sigh:

Good point and I've thought about this previously. But Paul is younger than Brandon and already more productive. He also wants to dominate. Brandon just was even more laid back. Paul is more "cool" than laid back and eventually he will trade in his "cool" for a more effective game.

I think Paul needs to work on his game and eventually you will see a much more aggressive and productive player. I have no doubt he will eventually be averaging in the 20 ppg area.

Miller_time04
11-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Man you guys are so quick to throw Green under the bus. You were all clamoring for him to be sixth man of the year at the end of pre season. It's sickening. Yeah he's had two bad games. But he got thrown into the starting line up outta no where. Give him the opportunity to prove himself before you guys start saying you want barbosa back. I think he will get better every game. Give him some time to get used to playin with the starters and he will be fine. He hasn't even played a home game yet.

Dece
11-02-2012, 10:58 PM
The Knicks are a solid playoff team. Invalid comparison, especially because the Heat looked good in game 1.

People saying Granger coming back will fix it... how? DG33 is not a good passer. He is not a good ball handler. How is he going to make our offense not stagnant and easy to defend? We stand around, take back shots, and turn the ball over at an alarming rate. These aren't things that Granger and his at times questionable shot selection are going to fix. Sure, he will make us better by the nature of us having better players on the floor, but he will not make our system, which basically do we even have a system, operate better.

Bird Fan
11-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Why did Roy only take 4 field goal attempts tonight?

ColeTheMole
11-02-2012, 11:03 PM
meh. 1-1 with absolutely terrible play.

beast23
11-02-2012, 11:19 PM
Wow. A couple of minutes ago, I happened to look at the list of thread browsers and saw "arkman40" in the list. It's been a long, long time but glad to see he still lurks.

Now how 'bout a post or just a word or two to say hi?

BobbyMac
11-02-2012, 11:38 PM
I'll have an opinion after 10 games. Green seems to feeling the pressure, he needs to get his feet on the ground and get comfortable.

Since86
11-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Not much you can hope for when they don't show up mentally. The only players ready to hold a basketball was the bench. Roy looked lost. Late in the fourth, it seemed like he didn't even want the ball.

There's a lot of positives out there too though. Lance was great. He came in and started making plays for others, before he started shooting and it really got him into a rhythm.

If they don't show up for tomorrow night, they need an intervention.

vnzla81
11-03-2012, 12:13 AM
@AlexKennedyNBA: The Bobcats' win couldn't have come at a better time. They were four losses away from having the worst losing streak of all-time (27 games).

Good job Pacers (green)

Eleazar
11-03-2012, 12:14 AM
I thought across the board all the backups played better tonight, even Young in the short time he played. Augustine looked more comfortable, Ian was getting pushed around less and was better on offense, Lance and Tyler speak for themselves. As bad as Green was, I still thought overall he did play better than game 1. The player who didn't play as well or better as game 1 was Hibbert.

Noodle
11-03-2012, 12:17 AM
Just finished watching the game. I was happy with Lance Stephenson's game tonight. His defense was very solid, and he looked to benefit the team in transition. It is promising being only his second game this year.

This team needs to move off the ball better when Hibbert gets doubled. The spacing is just bad out there. Hopefully, Vogel can get them straight during their next video session.

What happened to the team protecting the rock? Way too many turnovers. That needs to stop. Toronto can man up a little on D, but Charlotte? C'mon man...

xBulletproof
11-03-2012, 12:21 AM
Lance is 22 and had his maturity problems, which they solved in a really good way I think. But please, and I mean that how I say it, please tell me one time, when we saw him play a number of games and thought to ourselves, that he is really really bad, just like we did it today with Gerald Green???

.... well, every time until this year? That enough?

Trader Joe
11-03-2012, 12:23 AM
I didn't get to watch the game, but any idiot knows you're not gonna win many games shooting 60 some percent from the FT line and turning the ball over 18 times regardless of who you play. Amazing we even had a chance disappointing that we couldn't take advantage of multiple 1 point deficits to take the lead in the 4th at some point (was listening on radio).

Oh well if there is a time to lose a game like this it is early in the season and on the road.

Trader Joe
11-03-2012, 12:24 AM
I'd rather see OJ in before Green at this point.

LOL

Trader Joe
11-03-2012, 12:31 AM
And if Augustin's three falls, I'm sure some of you would still have your opinions but I would be willing to bet a lot of people would be singing a totally different tune just because of 1 shot. Not too high after a win, not too low after a loss. The Nuggets got their teeth kicked in by Orlando tonight. The Bucks beat Boston by double digits on the road. The Lakers are about to be 0-3 and probably their 3rd straight double digit loss. The Heat got beat by 20. The point is, it's the first week of the season. We don't know anything one way or the other really. And for some reason we still don't know **** about Danny's knee, whcih is honestly starting to perturb me.

graphic-er
11-03-2012, 12:58 AM
I'm just gonna respond to a whole bunch of you in one post, because some of you are straight bonkers, and some of you are wise men.


I don't know if it's Granger missing or what, but something doesn't feel quite right about this team. I hope it's just all the guys trying to get used to each other or whatever. Having a Healthy Granger would certainly fix some of the issues and probably enable us to easily beat the Raps and Cats. Granger is the proven threat that must be respected, and which also opens up opportunity for Roy and West. Several times tonight Herderson Cheated off Green to go and triple team Roy in the post. Henderson is not gonna cheat off a line up that had Granger and George as the wings. The Hill injury is killing this team. Heck they were bringing a full court press on Hill every other possession. Normally this would be no big deal for a player like Hill, but with the hip pointer that kind of pressure wears him down, takes a bit longer to get up the floor. All the sudden the offense cant' get into a solid Rhythm.


Like somebody already said, if you need Danny Granger to beat the Bobcats this team is in real trouble, the bench was supposed to be improved for a reason, Roy and Hill are getting pay huge money for a reason, again this team is supposed to be deep. I totally agree with your premise, but i do think think the bench is better heck they practically saved this game for us. The main problem is the starting unit and its Hibbert. He is not putting his stamp on the game. no points in the 2nd half against the Raps. Only 4 shots tonight? He is letting his team down, when he is supposed to be the guy to step up and take up the slack from not having Granger. I will give Hill a Pass at this time. He is playing hurt, and he did have 7 assist against the Raps and had the winning play. My only criticism of him is that he is not putting Green in his place with in the starting unit...


Man you guys are so quick to throw Green under the bus. You were all clamoring for him to be sixth man of the year at the end of pre season. It's sickening. Yeah he's had two bad games. But he got thrown into the starting line up outta no where. Give him the opportunity to prove himself before you guys start saying you want barbosa back. I think he will get better every game. Give him some time to get used to playin with the starters and he will be fine. He hasn't even played a home game yet.
.....Greens main problem is that he does not realize that he is the 5th option in this starting unit, but the real issue is i don't think the other 4 players have made that point to him. Especially our point guard. He is taking way to many shots and calling his own number. He needs to work with the Bigs to get some easy hand offs going to the rim. Instead jacking up turn around fade aways.


The Knicks are a solid playoff team. Invalid comparison, especially because the Heat looked good in game 1.

People saying Granger coming back will fix it... how? DG33 is not a good passer. He is not a good ball handler. How is he going to make our offense not stagnant and easy to defend? We stand around, take back shots, and turn the ball over at an alarming rate. These aren't things that Granger and his at times questionable shot selection are going to fix. Sure, he will make us better by the nature of us having better players on the floor, but he will not make our system, which basically do we even have a system, operate better.

Actually Granger is really good at just about everything pertaining to basketball (besides stupid fouls) He just isn't great at any thing. Granger might have some bad moments of clarity when shooting the ball, but we know that he aint scared to shoot it. Green and PG already been 2nd guessing their shots.


Why did Roy only take 4 field goal attempts tonight?Because he is soft on offense, that the only to describe it. Nobody on the Bobcats can defend him, and instead of just taking it to em he held the ball in the post for 5 secs waiting for everyone to clear out. He basically gave the defense time to set up help or double, even triple teams. Worst part was that when he passed out, the ball was not reversed. The few times it was resulted in easy points for West and PG.



I said it last game, we may have problem with some of our new players playing major minutes. They are making mental errors that are costing us opportunities. They come from a culture of losing, and it will be in an interesting study to see if its actually a good idea to take productive players from the worst teams in the league. You can tell they do not make good crunch time decisions. I'm preparing myself to be alittle let down by this team over the next couple months. They will be losing games that have no business losing. But hopefully our Veterans from winning ball clubs will bring them up to speed.

imbtyler
11-03-2012, 01:01 AM
Gerald Green is horrible and we need #33 back asap. Good night everbody. Lets beat the kings tomorrow.

Two games into the season, and Green is horrible? Nice. Just wait until he gets into form. When he's "preseason" comfortable, then we'll see.

imawhat
11-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Because he is soft on offense, that the only to describe it. Nobody on the Bobcats can defend him, and instead of just taking it to em he held the ball in the post for 5 secs waiting for everyone to clear out. He basically gave the defense time to set up help or double, even triple teams. Worst part was that when he passed out, the ball was not reversed. The few times it was resulted in easy points for West and PG.

He needs more than four shots (I think all were putback attempts too, so no real shots), but he was double/triple teamed all night. His teammates got a lot of open looks off his double/triple teams. I thought we made the right play on 80-85% of those plays, but he still needed more touches.

CableKC
11-03-2012, 01:06 AM
Hill has to guard Isaiah Thomas tomorrow. That'll be fun.
3 Super Quick Scoring PGs in a row........this is not good.

graphic-er
11-03-2012, 01:09 AM
He needs more than four shots (I think all were putback attempts too, so no real shots), but he was double/triple teamed all night. His teammates got a lot of open looks off his double/triple teams. I thought we made the right play on 80-85% of those plays, but he still needed more touches.

I agree, we got lots of open looks, but just didn't get enough easy points. But i still think he needs to quite waiting for the clear out. Just get it, post up and go to work make few quick dribbles to back down and go right into the middle of the lane for the baby hook.

imbtyler
11-03-2012, 01:13 AM
And if Augustin's three falls, I'm sure some of you would still have your opinions but I would be willing to bet a lot of people would be singing a totally different tune just because of 1 shot. Not too high after a win, not too low after a loss. The Nuggets got their teeth kicked in by Orlando tonight. The Bucks beat Boston by double digits on the road. The Lakers are about to be 0-3 and probably their 3rd straight double digit loss. The Heat got beat by 20. The point is, it's the first week of the season. We don't know anything one way or the other really. And for some reason we still don't know **** about Danny's knee, whcih is honestly starting to perturb me.

^^^ All of this and a bag of chips, please.

And about Danny's knee, don't you realize that it's a conspiracy? Danny's letting the new guys shine.... When in fact, they shine off the bench rather than in the starting line-up. By next week, the NBA will start to return to the "new normal", with the exception of Harden ruling over Houston, and the Heat and Lakers still losing. Those will remain the same.

LetsTalkPacers84
11-03-2012, 01:29 AM
No one will remember losing to the Bobcats when we are deep into the playoffs. Passion, Pride, Pacer Nation!

diamonddave00
11-03-2012, 01:32 AM
You can blame Gerald Green all you want but he wasn't in the game when the Pacers with over 2 minutes to go down 1 failed several times to score after holding the Cats scoreless. He played bad but in the end the Pacers had several chances to pull it out.

2minutes twoa
11-03-2012, 01:33 AM
Toronto game was ugly, this game was fugly! Way too early to panic, but a lot of work to be done!

Mourning
11-03-2012, 02:06 AM
This is a very dumb basketball team. Maybe that will change. But as long as Vogel sticks to what doesn't work, don't count on it.

Also, I'm pretty much done with the Pacers ever going to PG24 in the clutch. That guy just does not execute in the clutch.

2nd game of the season without our starter at SF. George is young and so is the team to write both off after a loss like this is ridiculous.

Going 0-4 on free throws is pretty incredible though, especially for a pretty decent free throw shooter like George. West also went 0-2 there.

Also 18 TO's. That's going to cost you games.

Augustin wasnt too comfortable. 1-7 from the field 1-5 from downtown and with these numbers and him playing his first game back in Charlotte in just the second game of the season and we give the ball to him to score for us in the clutch? That's the things I don't get.

Not a lot of positives to take away from this game, but Stephenson did nicely offensively. Also Roy shot 3-4 in his 23 minutes. That's not nearly enough shots to make an impact. He has to be more aggressive obviously.

Still it's just 2 games in. Let's see after 1-2 weeks how things are progressing.

CJ Jones
11-03-2012, 07:01 AM
After thinking about it I gotta question Frank's play call at the end of the game. It took way too long to get into IMO. When you're down 1 shouldn't we be trying to take a quicker shot so that we have at least 2 cracks at tying or taking the lead? The play left no chance for a tip in and no chance to foul after a miss. It wasn't Franks best day.

xtacy
11-03-2012, 07:15 AM
After thinking about it I gotta question Frank's play call at the end of the game. It took way too long to get into IMO. When you're down 1 shouldn't we be trying to take a quicker shot so that we have at least 2 cracks at tying or taking the lead? The play left no chance for a tip in and no chance to foul after a miss. It wasn't Franks best day.

vogel sucks at drawing plays in that situations. i'm trying so hard to remember a good play at the end of close games from last year but i can't.

these two games we looked awful especially on offense. no other word to describe it. i'm not gonna ignore the good things vogel made for this team but i said this before season started and gonna say it again. if the way we play continues even for 10 more games i'm done with vogel. i know a lot of people will disagree but that's the case. and i don't think granger will change our offense the way everyone think he will. the issue is way worse than that.

and one last thing i couldn't be more disappointed in hibbert. if he plays like this we are gonna regret that contract every day for the upcoming years.

Banta
11-03-2012, 07:48 AM
As I said more than once on this forum last year, Vogel is not a helluva coach. He's in over his head.

4 shots for Hibbert in 22 minutes? Come on. Should be 10 FGA minimum in that amount of time.

The offensive foul call against PG24 at the end sums him up as a player. Maybe you can argue it wasn't a great call, but you can't argue that PG24 had any idea what he was going to do with the ball or any chance to score unless the defender completely stepped aside. His MO is to drive to the basket hoping to dunk but with no idea what to do if he can't get to the rim.

Sparhawk
11-03-2012, 08:48 AM
Wolves aren't a good defensive team and kept the Kings to 80.

Please Pacers, don't let them go off on you tonight.

McKeyFan
11-03-2012, 08:52 AM
Wow. A couple of minutes ago, I happened to look at the list of thread browsers and saw "arkman40" in the list. It's been a long, long time but glad to see he still lurks.

Now how 'bout a post or just a word or two to say hi?
Noah's Arkman40.

Sparhawk
11-03-2012, 08:53 AM
As I said more than once on this forum last year, Vogel is not a helluva coach. He's in over his head.

4 shots for Hibbert in 22 minutes? Come on. Should be 10 FGA minimum in that amount of time.

The offensive foul call against PG24 at the end sums him up as a player. Maybe you can argue it wasn't a great call, but you can't argue that PG24 had any idea what he was going to do with the ball or any chance to score unless the defender completely stepped aside. His MO is to drive to the basket hoping to dunk but with no idea what to do if he can't get to the rim.

PG needs to learn the euro step.

OlBlu
11-03-2012, 09:01 AM
vogel sucks at drawing plays in that situations. i'm trying so hard to remember a good play at the end of close games from last year but i can't.

these two games we looked awful especially on offense. no other word to describe it. i'm not gonna ignore the good things vogel made for this team but i said this before season started and gonna say it again. if the way we play continues even for 10 more games i'm done with vogel. i know a lot of people will disagree but that's the case. and i don't think granger will change our offense the way everyone think he will. the issue is way worse than that.

and one last thing i couldn't be more disappointed in hibbert. if he plays like this we are gonna regret that contract every day for the upcoming years.


Patience..... The Pacers are trying to incorporate an entire new bench and make up for having their best or second best player injured. Look at the trouble the Lakers are having adjusting to a new system. I happen to think Mike Brown sucks as a coach and is way overrated. It is showing. I have no sympathy for you people *****ing about Vogel. You caused Vogel to be the coach by running JOB out of town before management was ready to replace him. If you would have waited until the end of the year, a hiring process would have gone on and you would have a better coach than the inexperienced Vogel. If Vogel goes on an extended losing streak, he will be dumped and his assistant head coach (who should have been the coach they hired in the first place) will take over. That is inevitable and it is only a matter of time before it happens....:cool:

McKeyFan
11-03-2012, 09:06 AM
2nd game of the season without our starter at SF. George is young and so is the team to write both off after a loss like this is ridiculous.

Going 0-4 on free throws is pretty incredible though, especially for a pretty decent free throw shooter like George. West also went 0-2 there.

Also 18 TO's. That's going to cost you games.

Augustin wasnt too comfortable. 1-7 from the field 1-5 from downtown and with these numbers and him playing his first game back in Charlotte in just the second game of the season and we give the ball to him to score for us in the clutch? That's the things I don't get.

Not a lot of positives to take away from this game, but Stephenson did nicely offensively. Also Roy shot 3-4 in his 23 minutes. That's not nearly enough shots to make an impact. He has to be more aggressive obviously.

Still it's just 2 games in. Let's see after 1-2 weeks how things are progressing.
Your first two mentions of George: did you mean "Green" ?

CJ Jones
11-03-2012, 09:08 AM
re oleblu... So if you know Vogel's going to be fired, why do tell us in the same breath to be patient with him?

McKeyFan
11-03-2012, 09:12 AM
The offensive foul call against PG24 at the end sums him up as a player. Maybe you can argue it wasn't a great call, but you can't argue that PG24 had any idea what he was going to do with the ball or any chance to score unless the defender completely stepped aside. His MO is to drive to the basket hoping to dunk but with no idea what to do if he can't get to the rim.
Agree somewhat, not completely.

PG just needs to utiliize a quick pull up jumper or a spin move to make himself open in those situations. He seems to have made an over reaction from earlier on when he would fail to go aggressively to the basket. It works to go full steam ahead during most of the game--guys don't want to sacrifice their bodies so much--but it doesn't at the very end. Paul needs to figure this out.

TheDavisBrothers
11-03-2012, 09:14 AM
re oleblu... So if you know Vogel's going to be fired, why do tell us in the same breath to be patient with him?

I think he's more talking about being patient with the players or the team as a whole, rather then specifically Vogel...
I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions right now, but I will say it could get interesting if the team continues to struggle, with Shaw sitting right there on the bench...

BlueNGold
11-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Patience..... The Pacers are trying to incorporate an entire new bench and make up for having their best or second best player injured. Look at the trouble the Lakers are having adjusting to a new system. I happen to think Mike Brown sucks as a coach and is way overrated. It is showing. I have no sympathy for you people *****ing about Vogel. You caused Vogel to be the coach by running JOB out of town before management was ready to replace him. If you would have waited until the end of the year, a hiring process would have gone on and you would have a better coach than the inexperienced Vogel. If Vogel goes on an extended losing streak, he will be dumped and his assistant head coach (who should have been the coach they hired in the first place) will take over. That is inevitable and it is only a matter of time before it happens....:cool:

Kind of like Andrew Luck imploding, right? Vogel has led this team to a better than .500 record since he's been coaching. Even after last night, Vogel is still at .500. That's better than Jim O'Brien given 4 years and all the 3 point shooting he could inflict on the fans. ....all while his winning percentage did nothing but go down.

BlueNGold
11-03-2012, 09:29 AM
Agree somewhat, not completely.

PG just needs to utiliize a quick pull up jumper or a spin move to make himself open in those situations. He seems to have made an over reaction from earlier on when he would fail to go aggressively to the basket. It works to go full steam ahead during most of the game--guys don't want to sacrifice their bodies so much--but it doesn't at the very end. Paul needs to figure this out.

Paul would be more effective if we ran plays for him rather than handed him the ball like he's Kobe Bryant. Guys need to learn to pass on this team. Paul is not a creator...

Kid Minneapolis
11-03-2012, 09:38 AM
Patience..... The Pacers are trying to incorporate an entire new bench and make up for having their best or second best player injured. Look at the trouble the Lakers are having adjusting to a new system. I happen to think Mike Brown sucks as a coach and is way overrated. It is showing. I have no sympathy for you people *****ing about Vogel. You caused Vogel to be the coach by running JOB out of town before management was ready to replace him. If you would have waited until the end of the year, a hiring process would have gone on and you would have a better coach than the inexperienced Vogel. If Vogel goes on an extended losing streak, he will be dumped and his assistant head coach (who should have been the coach they hired in the first place) will take over. That is inevitable and it is only a matter of time before it happens....:cool:

Right, you defend the Pacer's and preach patience, while doing the exact opposite for the Colts.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

LetsTalkPacers84
11-03-2012, 10:13 AM
Man you guys love to over react. Its silly some of the things people are saying. The Lakers have lost 3 games and have 4 all stars.

1984
11-03-2012, 10:14 AM
Roy Hibbert took four shots and made three; we would have won the game if Roy Hibbert had been delivered the ball in the post. [1] This is loss in Frank Vogel's fault; we should be a post first team. [2] This loss is George Hill's fault; he must learn how to pass into the post.

The most troubling thing to me is this: when Roy Hibbert scores in the post the Pacers win. This is an if/then conclusion. IF Roy Hibbert scoring in the post is critical THEN our coach and point guard should make certain he has multiple opportunities to score in the post.

(DUH).

1984
11-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Roy Hibbert took four shots and made three; we would have won the game if Roy Hibbert had been delivered the ball in the post. [1] This is loss in Frank Vogel's fault; we should be a post first team. [2] This loss is George Hill's fault; he must learn how to pass into the post.

The most troubling thing to me is this: when Roy Hibbert scores in the post the Pacers win. This is an if/then conclusion. IF Roy Hibbert scoring in the post is critical THEN our coach and point guard should make certain he has multiple opportunities to score in the post.

(DUH).


You are all pinning too much on Paul George.

McKeyFan
11-03-2012, 10:22 AM
Roy Hibbert took four shots and made three; we would have won the game if Roy Hibbert had been delivered the ball in the post. [1] This is loss in Frank Vogel's fault; we should be a post first team. [2] This loss is George Hill's fault; he must learn how to pass into the post.

The most troubling thing to me is this: when Roy Hibbert scores in the post the Pacers win. This is an if/then conclusion. IF Roy Hibbert scoring in the post is critical THEN our coach and point guard should make certain he has multiple opportunities to score in the post.

(DUH).
When Roy gets double and triple teamed every play, he is SUPPOSED to pass. We failed because no one stepped up to take advantage (George, Hill, Green, DJ) except maybe Lance.

Had they performed, Roy would have eventually had good looks again. They didn't. In the same situation, Granger usually makes teams pay.

pogi
11-03-2012, 10:38 AM
Not too high after a win, not too low after a loss.

Exactly!!!

Now if we go on a 5+ game losing streak to start the season, I'll p!ss and moan with the rest of you. Right now, there are quite a few upsets. Lakers 0-3, Miami got their @sses handed to them (sorry, I'm not sold on NY like some people here...at least till I see a major improvement), Boston has lost a couple now. And remember, teams are gunning for us right now.

Ace E.Anderson
11-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Do people realize the Bobcats were in zone and double/triple teamed the post EVERYTIME. Roy made the smart pass out of the post, and if we could hit some open J's we would've looked a lot better.

I'm more concerned about our mentality right now. With DG being out, we've kinda lost that trash talk, "tough pills", mentality. We haven't been the aggressors. That's our main problem right now.

bellisimo
11-03-2012, 10:58 AM
I wish PG had a quicker release so that he could punish the zone - way too many times he ended up just pump faking and then looked for a pass - a bit faster release, or less hesitation and i'd love to see what he could do with that.

Anthem
11-03-2012, 11:23 AM
And for some reason we still don't know **** about Danny's knee, which is honestly starting to perturb me.
Yep. At this point we should know something. The fact that we don't is worrying.

Anthem
11-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Tyler improved from last year to this, which is a very big deal. But last night was had one of those "oh crap, Tyler's got the ball" moments. Tight game, we need a bucket, and tyler got the ball in perfect post-up position with a defender behind him. West, Roy, or Danny would have just pivoted and drilled the easy turnaround. But Tyler had absolutely no idea what to do with the ball. He fumbled around for a moment, then passed it out. I'm glad he passed it instead of going up with no plan, but it was painfully obvious that he still lacks a go-to move in the post.

Mourning
11-03-2012, 11:26 AM
Your first two mentions of George: did you mean "Green" ?

In the second instance, yes. Not in the first case though :).

Heisenberg
11-03-2012, 11:39 AM
Frustrating as our start's been, we're 1-1.

Boston's been crushed twice, by Miami...and Milwaukee.

Trophy
11-03-2012, 12:29 PM
It was as if the Bobcats had won the championship by the way their fans acted last night.

People running around hugging each other. A guy was yelling "undefeated baby!" I guess for their sake, it felt extra great beating a playoff contender.

This win will definitely make their week(s).

We played a very sloppy game. Had we made at least a quarter more of our FTs, we would've won.

We're a resilient team and should play a lot better tonight at home. It's a LONG season to go.

PGisthefuture
11-03-2012, 03:02 PM
I have had the same weird vibe about this group. I'm just not sold. Then again I sort of fell in love with the team last year, even fairly marginal guys like D Jones and Lou who are gone.

Yes, I really fell in love with last year's team as well. They had a fire about them. I think DC and Dahntay were a big part of that to be honest. DC might not have been a great player or whatever, but he was always fired up and had a lot of heart. Dahntay brought a lot of life to this team as well, it was always fun to watch him and A.J. on the bench cheering and what not. The home crowd cheering "Lou" was also fun. Heck, I even kinda miss Barbosa even though he was only here for not even half the season and he sucked in the playoffs.

I think this team definitely has the ability to become just as lovable as that one, it will just take time. There is definitely more talent on this one in my opinion.

OlBlu
11-03-2012, 03:19 PM
Right, you defend the Pacer's and preach patience, while doing the exact opposite for the Colts.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Different teams, different sports and a different situation.... You accuse me of being negative about everything but, as you see, I am not.....:cool:

OlBlu
11-03-2012, 03:21 PM
re oleblu... So if you know Vogel's going to be fired, why do tell us in the same breath to be patient with him?

I didn't. I said be patient with the team. I have always thought that Vogel was in over his head and would be fired with any kind of significant losing streak....:cool:

PacersPride
11-03-2012, 03:57 PM
I didn't. I said be patient with the team. I have always thought that Vogel was in over his head and would be fired with any kind of significant losing streak....:cool:

i really cannot truthfully disagree with this except for the fact we do have Brian Shaw on the bench and it helps tremendously. i really like Frank but he is prob best served as an assistant coach.

this is a business. Vogel has to lead this team to top 4 status in the East.

McKeyFan
11-03-2012, 03:58 PM
Didn't he lose like 7 in a row his first year?

OlBlu
11-03-2012, 04:09 PM
i really cannot truthfully disagree with this except for the fact we do have Brian Shaw on the bench and it helps tremendously. i really like Frank but he is prob best served as an assistant coach.

this is a business. Vogel has to lead this team to top 4 status in the East.

I don't think that will happen. There just isn't enough talent on the starters. You need a superstar to be in the top four and the Pacers just don't have one and likely will never have one. Such is the fate of small market teams in general. OKC is a big exception to that rule. They got to draft a superstar and he is staying in OKC. That doesn't happen very often.... Vogel makes a lot of mistakes as a bench coach. I don't think he will be around for the long hall and if they Pacers come out and go 1-6 or something like that, I think he is gone and Shaw gets the job. Now, I am not saying that will happen and I certainly don't want it to happen but Vogel is on a short leash.....:cool: in my opinion.

cgg
11-04-2012, 01:02 AM
The Bobcats won their season opener last year too.

McKeyFan
11-04-2012, 07:28 PM
I don't think that will happen. There just isn't enough talent on the starters. You need a superstar to be in the top four and the Pacers just don't have one and likely will never have one. Such is the fate of small market teams in general. OKC is a big exception to that rule. They got to draft a superstar and he is staying in OKC. That doesn't happen very often.... Vogel makes a lot of mistakes as a bench coach. I don't think he will be around for the long hall and if they Pacers come out and go 1-6 or something like that, I think he is gone and Shaw gets the job. Now, I am not saying that will happen and I certainly don't want it to happen but Vogel is on a short leash.....:cool: in my opinion.
I agree that we still need to see if Vogel has what it takes to be a good bench coach.

I don't agree that he's on a short leash. I think he's earned some grace regarding long losing streaks (And didn't he have one his first year?) Also, I don't see Walsh as a quick trigger guy. In fact I think the leash would have been shorter with Bird. We'll see.

sopgy
11-28-2013, 02:07 AM
Every game we should have an advantage at one of the 5 positions. Kind of like a 5 headed monster who is attacking you .

I still can't wait to see what Granger will bring to the 2nd unit. CJ, Lance, Granger, Scola, Mahinmi sounds like a good team to have on the floor against most back up teams and even this Bobcat team. I have hopes that this will be another head to the monster. *this is hoping Granger comes back healthy and get back into things over the next 50-60 games.


Pacers are 14-1!

This winning percentage won't last, but this team is really awesome to see. Fighting Vogels!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Nuntius
11-28-2013, 02:14 AM
Every game we should have an advantage at one of the 5 positions. Kind of like a 5 headed monster who is attacking you .

I still can't wait to see what Granger will bring to the 2nd unit. CJ, Lance, Granger, Scola, Mahinmi sounds like a good team to have on the floor against most back up teams and even this Bobcat team. I have hopes that this will be another head to the monster. *this is hoping Granger comes back healthy and get back into things over the next 50-60 games.


Pacers are 14-1!

This winning percentage won't last, but this team is really awesome to see. Fighting Vogels!


Somehow, you posted this on last year's thread. It's that or PD bugged :p

Dr. Awesome
11-28-2013, 03:43 AM
Somehow, you posted this on last year's thread. It's that or PD bugged :p

It's actually nice.

Crazy how far we've come in the last year.

Nuntius
11-28-2013, 06:44 AM
It's actually nice.

Crazy how far we've come in the last year.

Well, it's certainly true that we have come a long way :)

Johanvil
11-28-2013, 06:47 AM
No, it's not nice. I thought they both came back. :p