PDA

View Full Version : The Grady and Big Joe Show



pacers74
11-01-2012, 08:50 AM
The Grady and Big Joe Show is just starting. There should be a lot of good Pacers talk on there.

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 09:04 AM
Grady is sounding like he is trying to sell some Pacers tickets today........

BRushWithDeath
11-01-2012, 09:04 AM
Grady is sounding like he is trying to sell some Pacers tickets today........
He is a PS&E employee.

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 09:06 AM
He is a PS&E employee.

I know, I'm just used to him not been this *omer.

pacers74
11-01-2012, 09:35 AM
Joe is like the casual NBA fan who thinks we should just blow out Toronto. Most people don't understand that: 1. Toronto isn't a bad team . 2. It is the first game of the season on the road and the Pacers will only get better, and 3. We are without our best player in Granger and it really does make a difference.

Since86
11-01-2012, 09:37 AM
It would be an awfully boring show if they agreed on everything.

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 09:37 AM
Joe is like the casual NBA fan who thinks we should just blow out Toronto. Most people don't understand that: 1. Toronto isn't a bad team . 2. It is the first game of the season on the road and the Pacers will only get better, and 3. We are without our best player in Granger and it really does make a difference.

But Joe is still right, he is evaluating every player for the WHOLE GAME no just one quarter or one play like Grady is doing, Grady think that George Hill was great last night but the true is that he wasn't.

pacers74
11-01-2012, 09:47 AM
Oh ya, I would not say G.Hill played a good game last night either.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 09:47 AM
Grady makes a very good point though-- if any other team in the league lost their leading scorer indefinitely 2 days before the start of the regular season, it'd be reasonable to lower expectations some.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 09:49 AM
Oh ya, I would not say G.Hill played a good game last night either.

8 pts, 7 assists, 1 TO, all in his first game action of the season. I don't think he played "BAD" either.

CJ Jones
11-01-2012, 09:57 AM
8 pts, 7 assists, 1 TO, all in his first game action of the season. I don't think he played "BAD" either.

He struggled defensively, but I agree, I think he played a great floor game. I'll take 10 and 7 with 1 turnover all day from Hill. We know he can play defense when healthy, I'm not worried about that.

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 10:00 AM
Grady makes a very good point though-- if any other team in the league lost their leading scorer indefinitely 2 days before the start of the regular season, it'd be reasonable to lower expectations some.

Well in the beginning of the show he said he expect the Pacers to be in second place even without Danny Granger, so he is trying to lower expectations while saying the opposite.

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 10:02 AM
8 pts, 7 assists, 1 TO, all in his first game action of the season. I don't think he played "BAD" either.

Oh yeah he was really bad.

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 10:07 AM
8 pts, 7 assists, 1 TO, all in his first game action of the season. I don't think he played "BAD" either.

Look at Lowry's numbers... Hill was horrible for most of the game except the very beginning and end

BRushWithDeath
11-01-2012, 10:18 AM
Joe is like the casual NBA fan who thinks we should just blow out Toronto. Most people don't understand that: 1. Toronto isn't a bad team.

What on Earth makes you think this is the case?

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 10:21 AM
What on Earth makes you think this is the case?

Lowry and JV definitely make then a better team... How much better is still debatable

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 10:22 AM
Well in the beginning of the show he said he expect the Pacers to be in second place even without Danny Granger, so he is trying to lower expectations while saying the opposite.

I took it as if DG were only out for a few weeks, not out all year.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 10:24 AM
Look at Lowry's numbers... Hill was horrible for most of the game except the very beginning and end

Lowry outplayed him no doubt, what I was saying was considering the circumstances with not playing in the pre season and not being 100% healthy with that hip, I thought he played okay.

I will say he should've looked for his shot a little more early on.

pacers74
11-01-2012, 10:29 AM
What on Earth makes you think this is the case?

Lowry is a definite upgrade at PG.
DeRozan is still getting better and could be an all-star soon.
Bargnani is who he is, which is about 19ppg, and JV helps out at ton by taking pressure off of Bargnani. Fields is probably their weakest starter and he is still decent.

That is not a bad looking team at all. I could see them getting around 42-44 wins. (Now that I say that they will get 20 be last in the east.)

pacers74
11-01-2012, 10:36 AM
I also don't think Hill played a bad game either. It just didn't feel like a normal game for him. I think he should have shutdown Lowry at lot more than he did. I know this had a lot to do with his injury, but a healthy Hill would be able to stop Lowry better.
I hope this injury doesn't linger all year. I want a more impactfull Hill out there.

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 10:37 AM
Lowry is a definite upgrade at PG.
DeRozan is still getting better and could be an all-star soon.
Bargnani is who he is, which is about 19ppg, and JV helps out at ton by taking pressure off of Bargnani. Fields is probably their weakest starter and he is still decent.

That is not a bad looking team at all. I could see them getting around 42-44 wins. (Now that I say that they will get 20 be last in the east.)

I love Lowry, but I think you over value DeRozan who's a 1 trick pony IMO. Fields is not decent and is in fact a pretty bad starter and their bigs are weak defensively. They are better then last year but still not a .500 team or better...

Trader Joe
11-01-2012, 10:47 AM
My understanding is that PS&E only has about 100 tix left anyway for Saturday as of last night.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 10:54 AM
What on Earth makes you think this is the case?

They were top 10 defensively last yr. add Lowry and hot outside shooting and you get a tough team to beat last night.

Kid Minneapolis
11-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Yeah, the Raps looked greatly improved last night. Their frontcourt is gonna be a Pita for years to come. JV was impressive in his first game. Derozan looks like he's made improvements. Bargnani can be a pain. Lowry is a baller. I thought NY made a mistake lettin Landry Fields go, I like his game.

They looked good defensively, also.

Dr. Hibbert
11-01-2012, 11:01 AM
I like Grady & Big Joe, but that show is so predictable.

Grady = PS&E employee, homer, overly optimistic.

Joe = Colts employee, homer, overly optimistic.

So Colts/Pacers conversation are generally just naturally geared toward debate, etc. It works. I will say, though, that Grady isn't nearly as much of a Pacers homer as Joe is a Colts homer (if anyone listened to Joe defend the 2011 Colts...ugh...)

croz24
11-01-2012, 11:07 AM
We are without our best player in Granger

Umm NO. Just because a guys puts up 15+ shots a game at a 41% fg% in order to score 18 doesn't make you a team's best player. It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.

Grady was definitely sipping on some homer juice though. We did look bad the first three quarters. The fact that we were tied at half doesn't thus negate our putrid play. Hill played alright offensively and distributed more and much better than I expected, but he couldn't stick with Lowry at all. Seems to be a common theme with Hill dating back to last postseason when Nelson and Chalmers both gave Hill fits defensively, while Collison could actually stick with his man.

BRushWithDeath
11-01-2012, 11:20 AM
It the Raptors end up with 35+ wins, I'd be stunned.

**Not trying to take away from last night's win. Any win on the road is a good thing but that is still a bad team we beat.**

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Umm NO. Just because a guys puts up 15+ shots a game at a 41% fg% in order to score 18 doesn't make you a team's best player. It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.

Grady was definitely sipping on some homer juice though. We did look bad the first three quarters. The fact that we were tied at half doesn't thus negate our putrid play. Hill played alright offensively and distributed more and much better than I expected, but he couldn't stick with Lowry at all. Seems to be a common theme with Hill dating back to last postseason when Nelson and Chalmers both gave Hill fits defensively, while Collison could actually stick with his man.

A fairly decent starter?! When I hear that phrase, I think of a guy who wouldnt start for most teams in the NBA, and that's just not true about Danny--no matter how much you dont like him.

Also, much like Nelson and Chalmbers, Lowry was utilizing screens to help him get open to score. We have slow bigs, so if our rotations are even a bit off, that leaves the lane open for quicker PG's. But to dispute that DC is a better defender than Hill, that's just another conversation in itself.

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 11:38 AM
A fairly decent starter?! When I hear that phrase, I think of a guy who wouldnt start for most teams in the NBA, and that's just not true about Danny--no matter how much you dont like him.

I don't think croz is saying that at all, IMO a fairly decent starter would be about 10-15th best player at their position, in other words in the lower top half of all starters at his position. While I think he's more like 6-9th, I don't think croz is saying he's nearly as bad as you think...

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 11:43 AM
If not, then I stand corrected. I know he doesn't think very much of DG, so I may have jumped to a conclusion on that one. Lol I still don't think very highly of someone who is a "fairly decent starter in the NBA". Definitely doesn't endorse a player who could prob end up the franchise's all time leading scorer

Anthem
11-01-2012, 12:02 PM
It definitely hurts not having Granger in there as it throws off our rotations and Granger is still a fairly decent starter that the opposition has to account for. But Granger is in no way our best player. Arguably not even in our top 3.
:laugh: Croz, your irrational hatred of Danny has reached a new level.

Derek2k3
11-01-2012, 12:40 PM
Hill wasn't very good last night, but he also wasn't bad like some are saying.

Only took 9 shots, 33%, clearly hampered on both ends with the hip. Despite that he played a clean game, 7/1 AST to TO ratio is incredible.

Scored 6 of his 8 in the last 3 minutes.

He had a great "finish", but certainly just played "ok" overall. Lowry certainly got the best of him, but Lowry was absolutely ON last night, and is a great PG himself. We don't need Hill to score 15-20 points, we need to him run the offense and feed Hibbert/West and prevent penetration by the PG on defense. He was 2 of 3 last night in that regard.



Regarding the Raptors, they could contend for a playoff spot. I don't see why everyone thinks they're so bad. Barg's was hurt all of last season, JV wasn't here, Lowry/Calderon is probably one of the best PG combos in the league, DeRozan is a great wing player, Amir Johnson is a solid defender, and Ed Davis is Taj Gibson-like off the bench. Dwayne Casey is a great coach, he's got them playing much better defense. They could definitely steal a spot from NY/Atlanta

vnzla81
11-01-2012, 12:42 PM
:laugh: Croz, your irrational hatred of Danny has reached a new level.

Well if Danny is as good as Green he is not even top 10, take that :lol:

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Hill wasn't very good last night, but he also wasn't bad like some are saying.

Only took 9 shots, 33%, clearly hampered on both ends with the hip. Despite that he played a clean game, 7/1 AST to TO ratio is incredible.

Scored 6 of his 8 in the last 3 minutes.

He had a great "finish", but certainly just played "ok" overall. Lowry certainly got the best of him, but Lowry was absolutely ON last night, and is a great PG himself. We don't need Hill to score 15-20 points, we need to him run the offense and feed Hibbert/West and prevent penetration by the PG on defense. He was 2 of 3 last night in that regard.



Regarding the Raptors, they could contend for a playoff spot. I don't see why everyone thinks they're so bad. Barg's was hurt all of last season, JV wasn't here, Lowry/Calderon is probably one of the best PG combos in the league, DeRozan is a great wing player, Amir Johnson is a solid defender, and Ed Davis is Taj Gibson-like off the bench. Dwayne Casey is a great coach, he's got them playing much better defense. They could definitely steal a spot from NY/Atlanta

He doesn't have to score 15-20 points but when you score 2 in about 45 minutes thats a big problem and he was a great distributer at the very beginning of the game, but was also a huge reason if not the main reason why we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter. Also Lowry is really good, but he was even better then usual last night, because of Hills D.

DeRozan is a great wing player?!?!?! :laugh:
The Raptors are about as good as the Pacers were with JOB, not bad but not average either... 30-37 wins

Kid Minneapolis
11-01-2012, 01:35 PM
It the Raptors end up with 35+ wins, I'd be stunned.

**Not trying to take away from last night's win. Any win on the road is a good thing but that is still a bad team we beat.**

I wouldn't call them "bad"... 35 wins isn't bad, that's nearing the middle of the pack, and capable of beating you if you don't take them serious. Which it sort of felt like for large periods of the game last night. DWest took them serious in the 4th, that's for sure.

I could see them getting to 40ish wins. I've not seen a "bad" team play such energetic defense in awhile. They did keep us to 90 points. I'm not saying they'll be contenders, but the East isn't exactly set in cement, either. I'm just saying that they've got some good young pieces there, and they'll be a force in a year or two if they keep that group mostly intact.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 01:57 PM
Anytime you're as good defensively as the Raptors are, you're going to be tough to beat. Offense comes and goes, good/physical defense is consistent and contagious.

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 02:07 PM
Anytime you're as good defensively as the Raptors are, you're going to be tough to beat. Offense comes and goes, good/physical defense is consistent and contagious.

I think you're overrating their D, they are an average defensive team, they were 14/30 in defensive efficency (they were 9th in actual points because they played a slow pace) last year and while they held us to 90 points last night, it wasn't a fast paced game, our starting PG was banged up, and SF was out. While Lowry is an odvious upgrade at point, they also lost their best defender on the team in James Johnson...

Derek2k3
11-01-2012, 02:08 PM
He doesn't have to score 15-20 points but when you score 2 in about 45 minutes thats a big problem and he was a great distributer at the very beginning of the game, but was also a huge reason if not the main reason why we got destroyed in the 3rd quarter. Also Lowry is really good, but he was even better then usual last night, because of Hills D.

DeRozan is a great wing player?!?!?! :laugh:
The Raptors are about as good as the Pacers were with JOB, not bad but not average either... 30-37 wins

Yes. Or at least, I should say "Good going on great", if that makes you feel better.

He's added the 3 to his game, and is a very good player with great written all over him.

Toronto thinks highly of him, as they just gave him $40M over 4 years.

Oh, and Lowry made people look bad all year, at least until the injury. He's really good. Averaging 14+ and 7 AST over the past 2 years, and that was in a situation that was less than ideal in Houston.

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Yes. Or at least, I should say "Good going on great", if that makes you feel better.

He's added the 3 to his game, and is a very good player with great written all over him.

Toronto thinks highly of him, as they just gave him $40M over 4 years.

Oh, and Lowry made people look bad all year, at least until the injury. He's really good. Averaging 14+ and 7 AST over the past 2 years, and that was in a situation that was less than ideal in Houston.

He went from being a horrendous 3p shooter to a really bad 3 p shooter, big deal!
He is only above average at on thing, finishing at the rim and is a terrible shooter, bad passer, doesn't gel with a team offense, and a mediocre defender/rebounder especially considering his size and athleticism. Toranto overpaid for his flash and will regret his contract...

And trust me I know how good Lowry is, and he was even better then usual last night...

Derek2k3
11-01-2012, 02:34 PM
He went from being a horrendous 3p shooter to a really bad 3 p shooter, big deal!
He is only above average at on thing, finishing at the rim and is a terrible shooter, bad passer, doesn't gel with a team offense, and a mediocre defender/rebounder especially considering his size and athleticism. Toranto overpaid for his flash and will regret his contract...

And trust me I know how good Lowry is, and he was even better then usual last night...

He sure d'ed Paul up pretty well after the first quarter.

I agree with your statement on his finishing ability. Everything else is pretty subjective, so I'll leave you to that.

My point was that *Toronto is actually a decent team, not as terrible as some think.

Ace E.Anderson
11-01-2012, 02:37 PM
I think you're overrating their D, they are an average defensive team, they were 14/30 in defensive efficency (they were 9th in actual points because they played a slow pace) last year and while they held us to 90 points last night, it wasn't a fast paced game, our starting PG was banged up, and SF was out. While Lowry is an odvious upgrade at point, they also lost their best defender on the team in James Johnson...

Never said their defense was great. But they do play good defense, as their points allowed shows. The reason their efficiency rating is lower is because of their tendency to foul. With the additions of Lowry, and JV I'd say they're still a top 10-12 defensive team in the league. Maybe not elite, but a team that has a good defensive mentality.

BlueCollarColts
11-01-2012, 02:38 PM
What on Earth makes you think this is the case?
the fact that this team now has the pieces to compete for a playoff spot, and if you are competing for the playoffs you probably aren't that bad

BRushWithDeath
11-01-2012, 02:41 PM
the fact that this team now has the pieces to compete for a playoff spot, and if you are competing for the playoffs you probably aren't that bad

There is no way in hell that the Raptors are anywhere close to a playoff spot. Even in the East.

Unclebuck
11-01-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't know how good the raptors are going to be, but I was impressed with their defense last night, they played hard. But you cannot judge by the first game. Teams typically start out more even then they end up as the wear and tear of the 82 game grind wears down lesser teams. So the gap between teams right now is a lot less than it will be on January 15th.

Erndog
11-01-2012, 02:43 PM
What on Earth makes you think this is the case?

Well it's all relative I guess. I think they can compete in the East and will likely finish in the 7-10 spot somewhere.

Lowry is a very good PG, JV is the first Raptor to ever score a double-double in his debut (and he will likely be a very important focal point for them).... if Bargs stays healthy.... and Demar continues to improve they aren't an awful team by any means.

2 starters last year, Amir Johnson and Jose Calderon, are coming off the bench now, and I like Ed Davis a lot, so they even have a little depth too.

mg1070
11-01-2012, 02:46 PM
I hope y'all don't mind me chiming in every now and then. I appreciate that some of you were able to catch the show. 1. Turnovers were a problem throughout the game...the 3rd quarter was when it really came to bite them in the *** because they couldn't score. Just 15 points. The first half wasn't pretty...but (outside of the turnovers and some defensive lapses) it wasn't abysmal.

Paul George and Gerald Green have to decide from possession to possession who has the green light to attack (I argue that wouldn't be the case if Green worked primarily with the second unit and Young were inserted in the starting lineup). If many felt Danny was taking looks away from Paul...then it's fair to say the same about the Green-George combo. I'm not saying it can't work....just that I would let Green do his thing with a second-unit that I anticipate having some rough nights accumulating points.

George Hill was worked defensively last night. But you know what made it worse? The help defense. Toronto wisely ran George Hill (who was injured trying to run through a Plumlee screen in practice) through screen after screen after screen. And Hill got little help from his teammates. He'll do a better job fighting through screens as his health improves...but in the interim, he needs some assistance from his bigs. He's a competitor and he showed some stones with the buckets he hit down the stretch.

West is a man...nothing else to add there.

Hibbert and Paul had some disappointing stretches. Hibbert in the second half...Paul the last three quarters (though, you have to like his activity on the boards.) Their issues are a conversation for another thread.

Last thing...many had high hopes for this team, but with Granger out, a step back was inevitable. The question is, "how big of a drop off" and "how quickly can these guys get on the same page and find a groove in Granger's absence". Expectations have to change somewhat when you lose your leading scorer. Roles are being redefined and they have to rely on some new faces. It's no coincidence two of the three turnover leaders were two of the newest members of the team (Though some of Ian's TO's had nothing to do with "chemistry" with his teammates...he was just flat out getting stripped)....and Paul has always been overly "cute" with the basketball....and now he has the ball in his hands a lot more with Danny out. Carelessness is partly to blame...but so is a lack of continuity (Anyone check how many turnovers the Lakers had last night?)

My co-host went hard blasting the team last night....and there's nothing wrong with that...those were his honest feelings. I was prepared to be critical too, but I felt like he was giving a "June Shannon" description of last night's game....when it was more like a "Tina Fey".... It wasn't sexy, but I can live with it. Ha

TheDavisBrothers
11-01-2012, 02:46 PM
Never said their defense was great. But they do play good defense, as their points allowed shows. The reason their efficiency rating is lower is because of their tendency to foul. With the additions of Lowry, and JV I'd say they're still a top 10-12 defensive team in the league. Maybe not elite, but a team that has a good defensive mentality.

Fair enough, I can buy that...


He sure d'ed Paul up pretty well after the first quarter.

I agree with your statement on his finishing ability. Everything else is pretty subjective, so I'll leave you to that.

My point was that *Toronto is actually a decent team, not as terrible as some think.

Your right it is subjective...
My point is that Toranto is not at terrible as some think, but also not quite average.
Either way, I'm done talking about the Raptors lol

pacers74
11-01-2012, 04:14 PM
I still say Toronto is a much better team then they have had the past few seasons. Adding Lowry and JV are good additions. They might not make the playoffs, but they will be competitive this season.

xBulletproof
11-01-2012, 05:05 PM
There is no way in hell that the Raptors are anywhere close to a playoff spot. Even in the East.

I agree with you more often than not, but this one we're on opposite ends. I really love Lowry and JV. That's 2 large upgrades at the 2 most important positions. I really like their chances to be sniffing .500 at the end of the year.

Derek2k3
11-01-2012, 05:14 PM
I agree with you more often than not, but this one we're on opposite ends. I really love Lowry and JV. That's 2 large upgrades at the 2 most important positions. I really like their chances to be sniffing .500 at the end of the year.

Plus, who the heck is "definitely" out of the Raptors reach? Knicks with Amare and 70% and a bunch of old guys? Atlanta? We have no idea what to expect from them.

Outside of Miami/Indiana/Boston/Philly/Brooklyn, who is a sure thing?

croz24
11-01-2012, 06:19 PM
:laugh: Croz, your irrational hatred of Danny has reached a new level.

Then explain for me how Granger is better than West, Hibbert, Hill, or George. Not saying those 4 are better but how could you not argue they are? The only thing you'd have in an argument FOR Granger is "scoring". At which point I'd bring up the fact his shooting has declined essentially every year in his career and he's struggled to even hit open jumpers. Granger is likely a top 15 player at his position, making him a fairly decent starter and him not playing DOES hurt because he's better than anything we have on the bench.

graphic-er
11-01-2012, 10:03 PM
I think MG's point about Hill's injury and continually running him into the same thing that caused the injury was very astute. Hill wasn't getting any type of bail out from teammates either, but West and Hibbert are a bit too slow to cheat off their man too much in a pick and roll situation.

Love the show.

imawhat
11-01-2012, 10:26 PM
Toronto is an improved team, no doubt. They had huge upgrades at PG and C, their mentality has changed, and the coach has players playing defense for the first time in their careers (Bargnani). They don't know how to win, but they are a tougher team to beat now.

CJ Jones
11-02-2012, 04:02 PM
Then explain for me how Granger is better than West, Hibbert, Hill, or George. Not saying those 4 are better but how could you not argue they are?

No response, huh? I assume because the obvious answer is check the stats. Danny beasts the simple rating and PERs. You can't argue against that.