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ejwallace
10-30-2012, 11:06 AM
Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers
Forward @dgranger33 has continued soreness in his left knee and will be out indefinitely.

Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers
Granger will get a second opinion and once that is received an update will be provided.

Peck
10-30-2012, 11:07 AM
Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers
Forward @dgranger33 has continued soreness in his left knee and will be out indefinitely.

Well this sucks.

duke dynamite
10-30-2012, 11:09 AM
Welp...

ejwallace
10-30-2012, 11:10 AM
So what's our move?? Slide PG24 to SF and move Augustine into the 1 or 2?? Or do we move Green up...Regardless, this is very unfortunate....

xBulletproof
10-30-2012, 11:11 AM
Knew that was coming

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:11 AM
Not good. Not good. Not good.

Gerald Green will slide in IMO. How ironic is that.

King Tuts Tomb
10-30-2012, 11:13 AM
Hate to hear this cause I love Granger, but this is the perfect test for Paul George.

Sparhawk
10-30-2012, 11:14 AM
I would not be opposed to use PG as the SF and Green at the SG spot. Or vice versa.

Well, Green is going to have to prove his worth big time now. I think he's up to the challenge.

That would mean that Lance will get more minutes off the bench and we should see Young play.

Unclebuck
10-30-2012, 11:16 AM
Do we know exactly what the injury is?

I wasn't paying much attention because I figured it wasn't a big deal.

so you start Green or leave him in his role of coming off the bench. Might be better to start with defense

Peck
10-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Conrad Brunner said on twitter he thinks that Sam Young will get the start. I can only assume so that Frank has continuity throughout the season.

mattie
10-30-2012, 11:17 AM
Not sure why there are all of these wild shots in the dark as to who will move to the starting lineup. Green will start.

Some are saying Hill will play the two (ha), Conrad Brunner says Sam Young will start. (um. what?).


Hll/DJ - Green - PG - West - Roy

Life goes on for now until Granger gets completely healthy. I'm not too worried. I just hope he takes all the time he can so he can get healthy and ready to play.

Eleazar
10-30-2012, 11:19 AM
Conrad Brunner said on twitter he thinks that Sam Young will get the start. I can only assume so that Frank has continuity throughout the season.

If that is the reason it is kind of a stupid reason. I think the better reason to not start Green is to have a scorer coming off the bench.

duke dynamite
10-30-2012, 11:20 AM
Panic Mode 7. We need Danny.

BornReady
10-30-2012, 11:21 AM
lets see what Gerald Green's got

Sparhawk
10-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Not sure why there are all of these wild shots in the dark as to who will move to the starting lineup. Green will start.

Some are saying Hill will play the two (ha), Conrad Brunner says Sam Young will start. (um. what?).


Hll/DJ - Green - PG - West - Roy

Life goes on for now until Granger gets completely healthy. I'm not too worried. I just hope he takes all the time he can so he can get healthy and ready to play.

Green should start. Young's defense for that second unit could be needed with the likes of DJ, Lance and Hans.

PacersHomer
10-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Not loving this. We can't afford to lose Granger for that long. Huge test for Paul.

Unclebuck
10-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Conrad Brunner said on twitter he thinks that Sam Young will get the start. I can only assume so that Frank has continuity throughout the season.


sounds like the type of move Frank would make. I certainly would expect Young to get 15-20 minutes only. Green will get the majority of the minutes. But I like the idea of keeping Green in his role we hope he is going to have the whole season. And it might be good to have excellent defense to start games

docpaul
10-30-2012, 11:27 AM
Fortunately, we have decent depth at the 3. Between Green, George, and Young... we should be able to hold down the 3 admirably.

Look for a big time inside game on Wednesday, given the opponent and the injury.

I'd love to see a cycle or two with Hibbert/West/Young/George/Hill ... that might be a fun opportunity to see what George can do offensively, and would be strong defensively.

Green seems like a much more appropriate bench player at this point.

Peck
10-30-2012, 11:27 AM
Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness
In the offseason, the Pacers were stressing continuity. Now, everything changes. Gerald Green running with the starters in practice.

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 11:29 AM
Do we know exactly what the injury is?

I wasn't paying much attention because I figured it wasn't a big deal.

so you start Green or leave him in his role of coming off the bench. Might be better to start with defenseNo one knows what the injury is. Seems like wear and tear given that there's been no diagnosis that I've seen.

SO OMGZ FRREAK OUT. DANNY NEVA GONNA PLAY AGAIN! AMNESTY!

yoadknux
10-30-2012, 11:33 AM
Looks like we're going to start next season without our best player. I hope he recovers quickly.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:34 AM
The word indefinitely is rarely ever a good word to hear Heisenberg.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 11:35 AM
This is what I have been afraid of for a long time, I knew that knee was going to be an issue(well everybody knew that) :kickcan:


Let's hope is not as bad as it looks.

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 11:36 AM
The word indefinitely is rarely ever a good word to hear Heisenberg.

Course not. But it's not the end of the world. It means what it means, indefinitely. I remain of the opinion that it's overblown.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:37 AM
I would be a lot mroe upbeat if they had said, Danny will definitely miss the Toronto game while getting a second opinion on his knee. Update to come.


Indefinitely means they already know it is not good, they are just trying to find out how bad it is IMO.

Derek2k3
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
I wouldn't say we should freak out, but this is certainly bad.

It's been about 120-150 days since he's played in a game (With the exception of the latest preseason game) and he has been too sore to practice fully? Also, described it as feeling a "sharp" pain on a layup against Chicago.

That's not good. Wear and tear would likely have manifested itself as a longer recovery time between games, not this. Hopefully it's just a strain or something, but these things can take a looong time to get over. Great early test for the Pacers, unfortunately.

graphic-er
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
This is the worst news we.could have possibly gotten one day before the season starts. We can basically forget about the 2nd seed.

docpaul
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections are intended to stimulate more rapid healing by concentrating your own body's healing "factors" into a single injection that can be focused on a particular part of the body.

From what I understand, Granger had this done to his knee. It implies that he has had some sort of joint damage (cartilage/meniscus) that's causing him discomfort.

The reality is though, that PRP has a fair bit of hype around it and a small amount of actual science that validates whether it actually does anything. Athletes swear that it's the second coming, and science shows poor causal relationship between the injections and enhanced healing.

To me, the fact that he got PRP implies that his joint is starting to break down, and that they're looking for options to make his joint feel better. My guess is that he developed some scar tissue in the knee, and so he's trying to work through it.

This might take a while to sort through. I wouldn't plan on seeing him around for a couple of weeks.

naptownmenace
10-30-2012, 11:38 AM
This is terrible news for the Pacers but I think they can be competitive without Danny for a while because several other playoff teams are have injuries to key players. Rose in Chicago, Amare in NY, Dirk in Dallas, Bynum in Philly, Wall in DC, and even Kyrie is coming off an injury in Cleveland.

If he has to have surgery... That could change everything. ��

Derek2k3
10-30-2012, 11:39 AM
I would be a lot mroe upbeat if they had said, Danny will definitely miss the Toronto game while getting a second opinion on his knee. Update to come.


Indefinitely means they already know it is not good, they are just trying to find out how bad it is IMO.

That's what I was thinking. Indefintely implies you have no idea how long this could take, but you know it's gonna be a bit.

If they said 2-4 weeks/6-8 weeks/out for tomorrows game, I'd have felt a lot better.

I know, I know, analyzing word choice. So, take all of that with a grain of salt.

mattie
10-30-2012, 11:41 AM
Obviously this hurts a lot, but if he come back after 20 games, I don't think we'll see to much of an effect. The schedule starting off for the Pacers is pretty easy, so as long as they can hold their own, the Pacers could still come out with maybe a 3 seed in the east.

Danny does need to get back on the court in about 20 games though. Much longer than that and we'll see the losses pile up more than they should.

Edit- and indefinitely means just that. They have no idea. Doesn't mean the season, doesn't mean two weeks, it means they don't know until another doctor can give them an opinion.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:41 AM
I have a really high belief in Green's ability. I said so at the forum party, so I still think we can win 50+ games even if Danny misses substantial time. We just can't afford something to happen to West or Roy obviously.

Rogco
10-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Ah Crap

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Course not. But it's not the end of the world. It means what it means, indefinitely. I remain of the opinion that it's overblown.

Getting a second opinion is usually not a good thing to hear, maybe you don't know this but Danny's knee has been an issue since college, he dropped to the Pacers because of teams worried about his knee and his longevity in the NBA, many teams didn't expect him to play this long, so yeah everybody knows/knew about this issue.

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 11:42 AM
THE SKY'S FALLING! WE KNOW A WORD!

Seriously guys, let's at least wait a minute before we FLIP OUT!.

docpaul
10-30-2012, 11:43 AM
That's what I was thinking. Indefintely implies you have no idea how long this could take, but you know it's gonna be a bit.

If they said 2-4 weeks/6-8 weeks/out for tomorrows game, I'd have felt a lot better.

I know, I know, analyzing word choice. So, take all of that with a grain of salt.

Eh, I wouldn't read too much into it. IMO, it seems as if he's been dealing with knee pain for some time now which is unrelated to a specific injury, but more wear and tear... and they wanted to try PRP as an option. It hasn't worked as they were hoping it would. They don't know what that means, and so they have no timetable.

What they predicted would happen, has not happened... and that's all they can report at this point.

Now is the time in the season to deal with this properly. Playing him now and taking risk doesn't help us for when we really need our best players.

CompACE
10-30-2012, 11:43 AM
I hate when an injured player is designated as "out indefinitely." It leaves so much to the imagination... He could be out only a few weeks (which is almost never the case) or out a month or months (common) or out the season or more (OH GOD I HOPE NOT).

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 11:44 AM
Getting a second opinion is usually not a good thing to hear, maybe you don't know this but Danny's knee has been an issue since college, he dropped to the Pacers because of teams worried about his knee and his longevity in the NBA, many teams didn't expect him to play this long, so yeah everybody knows/knew about this issue.
I know all about why/how Danny dropped to 17. And he missed 6 games in his first 3 years. I frankly don't care about the pre-draft reports.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:45 AM
THE SKY'S FALLING! WE KNOW A WORD!

Seriously guys, let's at least wait a minute before we FLIP OUT!.

I think you're overreacting to everyone's reaction honestly, so...

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:46 AM
I do think the possibility exists that maybe Danny is personally seeking the second opinion/affirmation that his knee is OK. He wants someone not associated with the Pacers or his situation to take a fresh look and still give him the go ahead.

Speed
10-30-2012, 11:48 AM
I think they are fine, even if its through the end of the year.

I like Sam Young - defensively he can hold his own. Paul George gets more shots, hopefully not forced. Green gets a ton of minutes. Lance gets minutes without having to look over his shoulder. I mean the cupboard's not bare.

You need Danny back in time to tune up for a playoff run, but otherwise, its a chance to let some younger guys grow, I think.

You lose scoring with one of the units, depending how the line ups shake out. I'm pleasantly surprised with Ian's offense, DJ has the reputation to be able to get offense. I mean I just don't see the sky falling. I think you'd be worse off if it was Roy or really Paul George, at this point. For the record I like Danny, but I'd rather have him 95% in January than 65% in November.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:48 AM
Here's the thing everyone should be asking themselves at least for the regular season, do you think Gerald Green can score 16-18PPG on 40% shooting from the field if given Danny's minutes? If the answer is yes, then there is no reason the team should be much worse than last year if at all. In fact they should still be better if Mahinmi can be a big upgrade and if Roy can continue to improve along with Paul.

I happen to believe Green can definitely do that.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 11:48 AM
PRP (platelet rich plasma) injections are intended to stimulate more rapid healing by concentrating your own body's healing "factors" into a single injection that can be focused on a particular part of the body.

From what I understand, Granger had this done to his knee. It implies that he has had some sort of joint damage (cartilage/meniscus) that's causing him discomfort.

The reality is though, that PRP has a fair bit of hype around it and a small amount of actual science that validates whether it actually does anything. Athletes swear that it's the second coming, and science shows poor causal relationship between the injections and enhanced healing.

To me, the fact that he got PRP implies that his joint is starting to break down, and that they're looking for options to make his joint feel better. My guess is that he developed some scar tissue in the knee, and so he's trying to work through it.

This might take a while to sort through. I wouldn't plan on seeing him around for a couple of weeks.

Yeah it looks to me like he got PRP because the knee situation got worse, just look at the players that have opted to do this as last option(Broy, Kobe, Bynum, Tmac?, Danny).

mattie
10-30-2012, 11:48 AM
This could also be a blessing in disguise. As been stated by nearly everyone involved with the Pacers, Paul George has to start scoring the ball. He either makes a jump or this teams future is stunted.

This forces Paul to grow up now. As long as Danny is ready to go after however many games the Pacers could be set for a big time run in the playoffs. (even if that means they don't necessarily get the number 2 seed like they wanted)

pacergod2
10-30-2012, 11:50 AM
Has there been any MRI results released?

That is my thing... these players have easy access to MRI machines. I am just kind of shocked how Danny and the team has waffled on whether or not he should be playing. If it is structural and there is ligament damage, go get it fixed. I am assuming that it is a slight tear in one of the ligaments or the meniscus. The recovery time on these types of things are typically a month or two max. If he is dealing with a bad ACL, that might be a whole different ball game, but if it is not fully torn, I believe they can repair it without having the same type of recovery time.

Just curious if any MRI results had ever been released for him?

Trophy
10-30-2012, 11:50 AM
For the time, if any Danny is out, this is Paul and Gerald's time to shine and they should step up just fine.

Additionally, having Sam Young keeps the depth in tact.

Dr. Hibbert
10-30-2012, 11:52 AM
I haven't been posting a lot this offseason (I rarely do), but I've been following the team. Maybe I haven't been following close enough, though, because this really seems like it came out of nowhere to me?

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 11:52 AM
I know all about why/how Danny dropped to 17. And he missed 6 games in his first 3 years. I frankly don't care about the pre-draft reports.

Pre-draft reports and years of knee issues, he has been playing with that injury for a while now, I don't think is crazy to think that is getting worse.

docpaul
10-30-2012, 11:53 AM
I do think the possibility exists that maybe Danny is personally seeking the second opinion/affirmation that his knee is OK. He wants someone not associated with the Pacers or his situation to take a fresh look and still give him the go ahead.

Probably. To me, this is the clearest sign yet that we as Pacer fans are going to have to start thinking about a future (perhaps sooner than later) where Granger starts his downward trajectory as a player. He will likely continue to have flashes of brilliance, and we'll likely see a lot more from him... but I'd be *shocked* if we gave him anything near the kind of contract he currently has come his time for renegotiation. I think this also changes the dynamics around trading him prior to his contract expiration. This is the kind of injury that a player "lives with" vs. "recovers from".

Hopefully the rest of the team sees this as an opportunity to step up their game and bring new leadership to the 3.

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 11:54 AM
Pre-draft reports and years of knee issues, he has been playing with that injury for a while now, I don't think is crazy to think that is getting worse.I don't mean to give the impression that this is nothing to worry about, it clearly is. But I'm not about to start thinking up trade scenarios either. Players miss time, it's not the end of the world or something.

BillS
10-30-2012, 11:55 AM
I think a month ago I'd have been a lot more :onozomg: about this than I am now.

I truly think Green/PG can step up and between them cover a lot of what we lose with Danny. After all, this would be Danny's typical "slow start" period anyway, and we weren't figuring on sweeping our road heavy opening schedule.

It is way too early in the season - and way too indeterminate on Danny's status - to twiddle the starting unit based on keeping a bench unit together. If Danny were only going to be out a few games, maybe, but at this point I'd be putting the best 5 out there as starters and they can gel as need be.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 11:56 AM
I haven't been posting a lot this offseason (I rarely do), but I've been following the team. Maybe I haven't been following close enough, though, because this really seems like it came out of nowhere to me?

There has been reports for few weeks now of Danny having knee pain and probably that pain never going away, this is not surprising at all.

Kid Minneapolis
10-30-2012, 11:57 AM
I like Danny, but I'm not terribly tore up about this. No excuse for PG now, and he's who everyone wants to see.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:57 AM
There has been reports for few weeks now of Danny having knee pain and probably that pain never going away, this is not surprising at all.

I think it's more surprising it took this long to hear this. Didn't he scrimmage on Sunday?

BillS
10-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Has there been any MRI results released?

That is my thing... these players have easy access to MRI machines. I am just kind of shocked how Danny and the team has waffled on whether or not he should be playing. If it is structural and there is ligament damage, go get it fixed. I am assuming that it is a slight tear in one of the ligaments or the meniscus. The recovery time on these types of things are typically a month or two max. If he is dealing with a bad ACL, that might be a whole different ball game, but if it is not fully torn, I believe they can repair it without having the same type of recovery time.

Just curious if any MRI results had ever been released for him?

I suspect that what has been reported - scar tissue needing to break up and causing pain in the meantime - is based on the MRIs. I would bet, though, that the pain makes it feel to Danny like something is continuing to be damaged when he plays, and he - and the team - are wanting to make absolutely sure that is NOT what is happening before he does something more permanent.

There's playing through pain and there's being able to convince yourself the pain doesn't signal things getting worse. The latter is essential for the former to make sense.

Foul on Smits
10-30-2012, 11:58 AM
I want to see Vogel just put Green in there and run and lob teams to death. Plumlee, Green, George, Young, Augustine, Team Toss It Up.

billbradley
10-30-2012, 11:59 AM
PG looked awful in preseason. Honestly, it looked like the "cute" play got worse.

I hope Danny can play soon, he can still make big shots.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 11:59 AM
BTW, when I was recovering from my knee injury last year, I had sharp pains all the time, so I can totally relate what to Danny is going to. It messes with your head so much. I am taking a middle of the road approach to this. I am mostly concerned for Danny, I think the Pacers will be OK either way, but I do want Danny to be able to play and I want him to be comfortable with what is going on with his knee.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:00 PM
I want to see Vogel just put Green in there and run and lob teams to death. Plumlee, Green, George, Young, Augustine, Team Toss It Up.

Team Toss it up would be team suck it up.

Heisenberg
10-30-2012, 12:00 PM
I want to see Vogel just put Green in there and run and lob teams to death. Plumlee, Green, George, Young, Augustine, Team Toss It Up.
Team Toss Up the lotto balls, sure.

yoadknux
10-30-2012, 12:01 PM
Some of you guys must really underrate Granger if you think we could still win 50+ wins with Granger out and believing Green/George combo could make up for it.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:02 PM
I don't mean to give the impression that this is nothing to worry about, it clearly is. But I'm not about to start thinking up trade scenarios either. Players miss time, it's not the end of the world or something.

Nobody is thinking about trade scenarios, I have given up on that already, I don't want to be mean but I don't think is crazy to think that Danny's value is close to 0 now.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:02 PM
I don't mean to be a jerk to Danny, as I am a huge fan and always have been on here, but at this point in his career what did Danny give us last year that we are sure Green could not?

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:04 PM
I think it's more surprising it took this long to hear this. Didn't he scrimmage on Sunday?

According to Vogel yesterday they had him practicing half day(sunday I think) but he didn't practice all day.

Foul on Smits
10-30-2012, 12:06 PM
I don't mean to be a jerk to Danny, as I am a huge fan and always have been on here, but at this point in his career what did Danny give us last year that we are sure Green could not?

Stop it. Come on. Defense for one. Leadership ( he's underrated imo ). Clutch play ( Another very underrated thing about Danny. He plays great in the 4th quarter when it counts. We saw it in the playoffs two years now ).

Green hasnt proven anything. I hope he does, but come on. Granger is a huge loss. Dont kid yourself.

yoadknux
10-30-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't mean to be a jerk to Danny, as I am a huge fan and always have been on here, but at this point in his career what did Danny give us last year that we are sure Green could not?
#1 scoring option, size, shooting, defense, rebounding, clutch scoring ...

Mad-Mad-Mario
10-30-2012, 12:09 PM
I refuse to panic unless they say he is out for the season. Sure this might mean a few less regular season wins. But we should still make the playoffs just fine, and if Danny comes back fresher late in the year that could be a big help.

Mourning
10-30-2012, 12:09 PM
SO OMGZ FRREAK OUT. DANNY NEVA GONNA PLAY AGAIN! AMNESTY!

:spitout: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

This seriously does suck though, but let's not jump to dramatic conclusions and refrain ourselves from jumping off a tall building... for now :).

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:09 PM
Some of you guys must really underrate Granger if you think we could still win 50+ wins with Granger out and believing Green/George combo could make up for it.

Funny that as the official "Danny Granger number 1 hater" I have to agree with this :) I know people have high hopes for Green and George but replacing Danny Granger is not an easy thing to do, they guy is a pretty damn good player, I don't see either guy on the Pacers able to replace him.

Foul on Smits
10-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Paul George is on the clock now.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:10 PM
Stop it. Come on. Defense for one. Leadership ( he's underrated imo ). Clutch play ( Another very underrated thing about Danny. He plays great in the 4th quarter when it counts. We saw it in the playoffs two years now ).

Green hasnt proven anything. I hope he does, but come on. Granger is a huge loss. Dont kid yourself.

1.) Defense: Danny was better last year, but I think Green has looked pretty good defensively. George and Hill is already a strong perimeter combo.

2.) Leadership: No doubt. Danny is a great leader and Green cannot replace that, but isn't it time for guys like Roy and Hill, and maybe even Paul to pick up some leadership slack? Specifically Roy, now is his time to take control of this locker room. Plus there is still West. I am not trying to diminish Danny as a leader, I think he is a great leader, but this team should have plenty of other leader capable people at this point. Two straight years in the playoffs, a series win, a tough series against the Bulls and the Heat. We should be tested well beyond Danny at this point.

3.) Clutch play: Danny is clutch, but West is clutch too. His pick and pop was one of the most dangerous late game plays in the NBA in his New Orleans years. Definitely wouldn't feel as comfortable with Green taking the last shot as Danny, but aren't they basically gonna be taking the same last shot? A three or some sort of pull up jumper? Green is a pretty good shooter...Also, hasn't the drum been pounded all offseason that we need Paul to become "that" guy.

So yeah, Danny is a loss, but I think it hurts our depth more than our top end expectations JMO though.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:12 PM
Here's the other thing, I think Paul will probably slide to the 3, so maybe when you look at it like Paul replacing Danny and Green replacing Paul it will start to make a little more sense here. Danny + Paul is better than Paul + Green, but how big of a difference is it really on the whole for a wing combo? Can anyone deny that Green plus Paul is significantly more athletic?

idioteque
10-30-2012, 12:12 PM
Well, if this relates to his earlier knee problems from college and significantly effects the trajectory of his career, at least we are only paying him big money through the end of next season and this won't turn out anything like a JO situation where it always seemed his was hurt right smack in the middle of his max deal.

I think there is somewhat of a silver lining here, it is now nut up or shut up for Paul George. If Danny misses significant time this year, we will know rather or not George is our guy.

PR07
10-30-2012, 12:13 PM
It's going to take a group effort to replace his production in terms of scoring, leadership, toughness, and defense. However, Gerald Green, Lance Stephenson, and Sam Young probably have the biggest shoes to fill.

ejwallace
10-30-2012, 12:14 PM
Full update....

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/granger-out-indefinitely

naptownmenace
10-30-2012, 12:15 PM
THE SKY'S FALLING! WE KNOW A WORD!

Seriously guys, let's at least wait a minute before we FLIP OUT!.

I don't think anyone is overreacting so far.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:16 PM
Full update....

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/granger-out-indefinitely

That is the weakest full update I have ever seen, why even publish that crap? Thanks for telling us absolutely nothing new Montieth.

Foul on Smits
10-30-2012, 12:17 PM
1.) Defense: Danny was better last year, but I think Green has looked pretty good defensively. George and Hill is already a strong perimeter combo.

2.) Leadership: No doubt. Danny is a great leader and Green cannot replace that, but isn't it time for guys like Roy and Hill, and maybe even Paul to pick up some leadership slack? Specifically Roy, now is his time to take control of this locker room. Plus there is still West. I am not trying to diminish Danny as a leader, I think he is a great leader, but this team should have plenty of other leader capable people at this point. Two straight years in the playoffs, a series win, a tough series against the Bulls and the Heat. We should be tested well beyond Danny at this point.

3.) Clutch play: Danny is clutch, but West is clutch too. His pick and pop was one of the most dangerous late game plays in the NBA in his New Orleans years. Definitely wouldn't feel as comfortable with Green taking the last shot as Danny, but aren't they basically gonna be taking the same last shot? A three or some sort of pull up jumper? Green is a pretty good shooter...Also, hasn't the drum been pounded all offseason that we need Paul to become "that" guy.

So yeah, Danny is a loss, but I think it hurts our depth more than our top end expectations JMO though.

You think Green looks good based on what 31games ? Really?

docpaul
10-30-2012, 12:17 PM
A tendon injury is a *lot* more reassuring than a joint injury.

This could have a good outcome.

Mad-Mad-Mario
10-30-2012, 12:20 PM
A tendon injury is a *lot* more reassuring than a joint injury.

This could have a good outcome.

Really? Any idea on recovery time?

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:21 PM
You think Green looks good based on what 31games ? Really?

Look isn't this what we all wanted, to eventually be at a point where Danny going down wasn't a death blow to the franchise? Well guess what I think we are there. Yes, it hurts us, I am not saying we are going to be better without Granger, but I still think we can win 50 games and I still think we can win the division. (And we still don't even know how long he is going to be down!) Danny was a net negative for at least 2 months of season last year, sorry to be that blunt but it is true, and that is what I am comparing this team too. That team last year was on pace for 50 wins in an 82 game season, and I think we can do that again with or without Danny. I hope it's minor and he is back by Saturday, but I am preparing to hear something worse, and I am being very realistic in what a lot of people thought anyway. This season's success or failure has never ever hinged on Danny to suggest anything else is suddenly revisionist history now that he has gone down hurt. It has always been about #55 and #24. I think they are both going to please quite a bit with their play on BOTH ends of the court. If Gerald Green can get us 14 or 15 PPG starting at the 2 guard (which is not at all ridiculous if he is playing 32-36 MPG) then that is completely fine production for that position.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:22 PM
Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
I'll be out of the loop for the next couple hours flying to Toronto. Losing Granger is a huge blow to the Pacers.
Expand

1h Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
I

Expand

1h Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Granger felt a "sharp pain" in his knee after a layup attempt against Chicago last Friday.
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1h Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Last season's opening night starting lineup only missed 11 out of 330 games for the Pacers.
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1h Mike Wells ‏@MikeWellsNBA
Pacers already hit with their first bit of adversity, as Danny Granger is out indefinitely with a left knee problem.

Slick Pinkham
10-30-2012, 12:24 PM
Strained / inflamed / stretched / partially torn tendons is a much better option than, say, lack of cartilage, ligament tears, or most other knee issues. It is by nature a pretty open-ended injury though. Tendons heal, slowly, with rest (by my understanding, not a doc though).

This doesn't sound like a chronic or career-threatening type of problem.

I will take a half step back from the ledge.

Ace E.Anderson
10-30-2012, 12:25 PM
Look isn't this what we all wanted, to eventually be at a point where Danny going down wasn't a death blow to the franchise? Well guess what I think we are there. Yes, it hurts us, I am not saying we are going to be better without Granger, but I still think we can win 50 games and I still think we can win the division. (And we still don't even know how long he is going to be down!) Danny was a net negative for at least 2 months of season last year, sorry to be that blunt but it is true, and that is what I am comparing this team too. That team last year was on pace for 50 wins in an 82 game season, and I think we can do that again with or without Danny. I hope it's minor and he is back by Saturday, but I am preparing to hear something worse, and I am being very realistic in what a lot of people thought anyway. This season's success or failure has never ever hinged on Danny to suggest anything else is suddenly revisionist history now that he has gone down hurt. It has always been about #55 and #24. I think they are both going to please quite a bit with their play on BOTH ends of the court. If Gerald Green can get us 14 or 15 PPG starting at the 2 guard (which is not at all ridiculous if he is playing 32-36 MPG) then that is completely fine production for that position.

I not only think that GG could average 14-15 ppg, but I think this gives PG a chance to finally be a more focal point of the offense. He HAS to be able to be a consistent perimeter threat for this team now, and he needs to be looking to score 16-18 ppg+ a night. If there were EVER a time for us to figure out what we have in PG, now is the time.

But anyone that doesn't think GG could easily average 14+ ppg, is crazy lol. That's just my opinion.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 12:26 PM
It's a huge blow if Danny is out, but I'm not going to dwell on it currently as he's seeking further opinions.

So, it appears he's day-to-day unless something official comes out.

Indefinitely could mean many things.

imbtyler
10-30-2012, 12:27 PM
Trying to get the fans/club to love DJ Augustin + Gerald Green? Hill and Granger rest "injuries" to let them start in place, prove themselves, and show out.

I smell conspiracy. Injuries are always a sensitive issue. Granger will be fine. Let's see what DJ and Green do for the starters. A killer instinct by both could be what these starters need to really assassinate other teams this year.

owl
10-30-2012, 12:27 PM
It seems like PG with his size would make a much better small forward defender than Green. Green looks small relative to some of the SF's he defended in preseason. Teams wanted to post him up constantly.
So PG at 3 and Green at 2 makes more sense to me. Of course PG has always played the SG so maybe they don't want to mess with that. I think PG needs to rebound well with Granger out. Post PG up and use his size more effectively on offense. Green would have much more flexibility to drive from the guard spot and better use his athleticism.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:28 PM
I really don't think this is going to be season ending, yes it's not good, and I feel for Danny having to go through this type of uncertainty, but if this second opinion ends up being season ending, whoever ended up clearing Danny to play in the last two preseason games under the advice that it was just scar tissue that needed breaking up is going to have to answer some serious questions from someone higher up in the Pacers org.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:28 PM
Trying to get the fans/club to love DJ Augustin + Gerald Green? Hill and Granger rest "injuries" to let them start in place, prove themselves, and show out.

I smell conspiracy. Injuries are always a sensitive issue. Granger will be fine. Let's see what DJ and Green do for the starters. A killer instinct by both could be what these starters need to really assassinate other teams this year.

I am under the impression that Hill will be starting tomorrow in Toronto.

owl
10-30-2012, 12:29 PM
If Green starts that reduces the offense in the second unit. That means Ian should be the primary scorer on the second unit.

duke dynamite
10-30-2012, 12:29 PM
I will take a half step back from the ledge.

I'm still on it. I honestly don't think we have enough to pick up his slack. Everyone is so high on Gerald Green filling in, that leaves our bench thinner. The bench is vital here. More so with Green on it. And what if PG doesn't step it up and only gives us 9 PPG?

The magnitude of this loss is more severe than some of you think. It's denial, I'm sure.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:29 PM
It seems like PG with his size would make a much better small forward defender than Green. Green looks small relative to some of the SF's he defended in preseason. Teams wanted to post him up constantly.
So PG at 3 and Green at 2 makes more sense to me. Of course PG has always played the SG so maybe they don't want to mess with that. I think PG needs to rebound well with Granger out. Post PG up and use his size more effectively on offense. Green would have much more flexibility to drive from the guard spot and better use his athleticism.

PG was already a better rebounder than Granger. His rebound rate from the 2 was off the charts.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:29 PM
If Green starts that reduces the offense in the second unit. That means Ian should be the primary scorer on the second unit.

no, Augustin.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:30 PM
I'm still on it. I honestly don't think we have enough to pick up his slack. Everyone is so high on Gerald Green filling in, that leaves our bench thinner. The bench is vital here. More so with Green on it. And what if PG doesn't step it up and only gives us 9 PPG?

The magnitude of this loss is more severe than some of you think. It's denial, I'm sure.

You guys are too focused on Gerald Green. If there is this little faith around here in Hill, Paul, West, and Hibbert being able to pick up their games for a bit, then we have much bigger issues as a team.

Also, Paul George's scoring average is going to go DOWN by 3 PPG? What are some of you on about?

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:30 PM
A tendon injury is a *lot* more reassuring than a joint injury.

This could have a good outcome.

I agree but why would they say that he is going to have pain on the knee pretty much for the rest of his career? I don't think tendons hurt forever, I had tendon injuries before and I wouldn't describe my pain as "sharp pain".

Foul on Smits
10-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Gotta go to bed. See you guys on the 32nd page.

BPump33
10-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Honestly, none of us know how this team will react to this. The good thing is we'll start finding out tomorrow.

duke dynamite
10-30-2012, 12:32 PM
You guys are too focused on Gerald Green. If there is this little faith around here in Hill, Paul, West, and Hibbert being able to pick up their games for a bit, then we have much bigger issues as a team.

Also, Paul George's scoring average is going to go DOWN by 3 PPG? What are some of you on about?

I failed to mention that. Really it all relies on PG.

CableKC
10-30-2012, 12:32 PM
Maybe this was why Vogel was running Young with the starting Line up during Training camp?

I am okay with Young in the Starting lineup as long as Green gets Starting Minutes off the bench. Young's role in the Starting lineup maybe that of a defender/5th scoring option...which is fine given that we have 4 other capable scorers in the Starting lineup.....but I think that with Lance, DJ, Hansbrough and Mahinmi in the 2nd Unit.....you need a Scorer like Green. Adding Young into the 2nd Unit would give us a fairly poor scoring 2nd unit. In the end....I don't think that Vogel will go with the "starting Unit In/Starting Unit Out" method of divying up minutes.....so I fully expect to see Green play with the primary Starters....I just think that it would make more sense for Green to play MORE with the 2nd Unit than Young does.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm still on it. I honestly don't think we have enough to pick up his slack. Everyone is so high on Gerald Green filling in, that leaves our bench thinner. The bench is vital here. More so with Green on it. And what if PG doesn't step it up and only gives us 9 PPG?

The magnitude of this loss is more severe than some of you think. It's denial, I'm sure.

It took a long time but we finally agree in something ;)

owl
10-30-2012, 12:34 PM
no, Augustin.

If Augustin is our number one option on the second unit be concerned.

Eddie Gill
10-30-2012, 12:34 PM
Funny that as the official "Danny Granger number 1 hater" I have to agree with this :) I know people have high hopes for Green and George but replacing Danny Granger is not an easy thing to do, they guy is a pretty damn good player, I don't see either guy on the Pacers able to replace him.

I don't think your official hater trophy is limited to just Danny Granger...:)

HC
10-30-2012, 12:35 PM
Other guys will step it up, and the team will be fine.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:35 PM
If Augustin is our number one option on the second unit be concerned.

You would rather it be Mahinmi? It will absolutely be Augustin he is the most skilled offensive player on the second unit when Green moves up. Unless you want it to be Tyler.

Eddie Gill
10-30-2012, 12:35 PM
Any chance a trip to Germany is in the cards for Danny?

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:36 PM
Any chance a trip to Germany is in the cards for Danny?

He already had the procedure done in LA.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:36 PM
This isn't 2008-2009. Danny is no longer our 'go to man', clearly best player, like he was back in those years with him and Mike before Mike got hurt. We're a team built on quality depth, and he plays the least important position on the floor. It hurts, but it's not the time to panic, either. Just means more touches for Paul, David, and Roy, and they (especially David/Roy) are capable of taking on that additional load.

Probably the biggest thing to worry about is bench scoring. I'm sure Green's minutes can go up a bit and he'll help, but the next guy up is Young, who is not a scorer or shooter.

This is the kind of thing that hurts a lot more in April than it does in November.

DGPR
10-30-2012, 12:37 PM
I blame the idiot writers that talked about how outrageously healthy we were last season, for saying we are due for a big injury. This sucks without a doubt but it's times like these that make other players step up their game big time. I'm looking at you Paul George.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:37 PM
He already had the procedure done in LA.

According to reports the procedure in Germany is different.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:38 PM
What's confusing to me is that I thought I read that Danny had that German knee procedure this summer that Kobe and others have had. My vague understanding of that procedure is it doesn't really heal the knee so much as it just makes it FEEL a lot better, so the fact that this has to do with sharp pain is confusing.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:38 PM
According to reports the procedure in Germany is different.

Hmm, I have no idea. Seems a bit misleading to call them the exact same thing then.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Thinking more about Paul George, it could be a good long-term turn of events IF this means he takes more shots and starts knocking them down. If that happens, it's a blessing in disguise if it means PG turns the corner with his offensive game.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:41 PM
Hmm, I have no idea. Seems a bit misleading to call them the exact same thing then.

Kobe and others went to Germany because they do something different that is not legal in the US, I don't know what it is but is a similar procedure but not the same.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:41 PM
What's confusing to me is that I thought I read that Danny had that German knee procedure this summer that Kobe and others have had. My vague understanding of that procedure is it doesn't really heal the knee so much as it just makes it FEEL a lot better, so the fact that this has to do with sharp pain is confusing.

Eh...

Sharp pains can result from a lot of things. I used to always get one when I was doing recovery right on my patella tendon if I wasn't stretched enough when I started activity. Would also often get one on the left side of my knee during rehab. I don't know if PRP can truly stop that. I am sure Danny is most likely just trying to cover all his bases. Why not? It's November. I'm more concerned for him, especially mentally.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:42 PM
Here's the thing everyone should be asking themselves at least for the regular season, do you think Gerald Green can score 16-18PPG on 40% shooting from the field if given Danny's minutes? If the answer is yes, then there is no reason the team should be much worse than last year if at all. In fact they should still be better if Mahinmi can be a big upgrade and if Roy can continue to improve along with Paul.

I happen to believe Green can definitely do that.

Yeah, that's the part I thought about mentioning, too; Danny wasn't exactly gangbusters last season. Although he did have his moments.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 12:42 PM
According to Vogel, it doesn't seem very serious to the point where he's out multiple games because of it.

Steagles
10-30-2012, 12:42 PM
Well end up playing
Augustin
Hill
PG
West
Roy


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:43 PM
Vogel says Green is starting at small forward...blah. I don't like that hopefully it is just in name only and Paul will still guard the 3. There's a video of it on Pacers.com apparently, but I can't watch it at work.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:43 PM
According to Vogel, it doesn't seem very serious to the point where he's out multiple games because of it.

Link? i'd really ask with something like this someone links it or at least says where they heard it from. Was it in the Pacers.com interview?

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers
"Gerald Green becomes our starting small forward." - video: http://on.nba.com/Pjoql0 - Coach Vogel discusses @dgranger33's injury.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 12:44 PM
Link? i'd really ask with something like this someone links it or at least says where they heard it from. Was it in the Pacers.com interview?

“It’s a limiting type of pain,” Vogel said. “He can run and jump and play, but he’s, like, limping and a little gimpy.

“He lacks explosiveness.”

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121030/SPORTS04/121030026/Pacers-will-open-season-without-leading-scorer-Danny-Granger?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:46 PM
“It’s a limiting type of pain,” Vogel said. “He can run and jump and play, but he’s, like, limping and a little gimpy.

“He lacks explosiveness.”

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121030/SPORTS04/121030026/Pacers-will-open-season-without-leading-scorer-Danny-Granger?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com


Those quotes don't exactly say "not very serious" and "won't likely miss multiple games because of it"... (I can't read the whole thing because I'm at my indystar quota for October.

Speed
10-30-2012, 12:48 PM
1.) Defense: Danny was better last year, but I think Green has looked pretty good defensively. George and Hill is already a strong perimeter combo.

2.) Leadership: No doubt. Danny is a great leader and Green cannot replace that, but isn't it time for guys like Roy and Hill, and maybe even Paul to pick up some leadership slack? Specifically Roy, now is his time to take control of this locker room. Plus there is still West. I am not trying to diminish Danny as a leader, I think he is a great leader, but this team should have plenty of other leader capable people at this point. Two straight years in the playoffs, a series win, a tough series against the Bulls and the Heat. We should be tested well beyond Danny at this point.

3.) Clutch play: Danny is clutch, but West is clutch too. His pick and pop was one of the most dangerous late game plays in the NBA in his New Orleans years. Definitely wouldn't feel as comfortable with Green taking the last shot as Danny, but aren't they basically gonna be taking the same last shot? A three or some sort of pull up jumper? Green is a pretty good shooter...Also, hasn't the drum been pounded all offseason that we need Paul to become "that" guy.

So yeah, Danny is a loss, but I think it hurts our depth more than our top end expectations JMO though.

Good stuff.

1.) I agree, but moreso against the big physical SFs in the league. Lebron of course, but even guys like Deng or even Evan Turner are stronger than Green and PG. Sam Young can match up some, but you loose much on the other end.

2.) Not to me, or at least not that much.

3.) Yes for sure, in years past. He can get a shot off with very little room, although the book is pretty much out on him, just stay on that right hand.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 12:49 PM
Those quotes don't exactly say "not very serious" and "won't likely miss multiple games because of it"... (I can't read the whole thing because I'm at my indystar quota for October.

I know he didn't say those exact words, but what I take from it is just that. The fact that he's actually able to do things is a plus.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 12:50 PM
I know he didn't say those exact words, but what I take from it is just that. The fact that he's actually able to do things is a plus.

I would watch his video on Pacers.com. I'm saying probably no Danny til December.

Eleazar
10-30-2012, 12:51 PM
You know, with Green starting I am oddly ok with the bench playing Stephenson ball. Just give it to him, clear out, and let him pretend to be Iverson for 15 minutes a game.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:52 PM
Well end up playing
Augustin
Hill
PG
West
Roy


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

I would be very surprised if this comes to pass as our starting 5; Vogel made a big deal about telling Hill to think about nothing but playing PG this season. Plus this needlessly makes Lance or Ben Hansbrough have to play time at the backup PG spot. Better to just play a tighter rotation at the wing with Sam Young filling in as needed.

BoomBaby33
10-30-2012, 12:53 PM
Similar circumstances to Peyton from a marketing and pr stance. Wait till the last minute to tell us something they already knew to sell more tickets - lol. :hmm:

Oh yeah, and i just bought a DG33 jersey this year, just like last year i bought a peyton jersey - blame it on me - lol.:cry:


Seriously i hope he is ok, and isnt out very long.

Hicks
10-30-2012, 12:56 PM
Vogel said the indefinite label is just there until after they get the second opinion(s), then he expects a time table after that is done.

Lance George
10-30-2012, 12:57 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/w00tdotcom/1337898337950.gif

Strummer
10-30-2012, 01:01 PM
That is the weakest full update I have ever seen, why even publish that crap? Thanks for telling us absolutely nothing new Montieth.

Seriously? I thought the interview with Vogel was great. I'm not sure what more you wanted him to say at this point. They'll know more when they know more.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 01:01 PM
I would watch his video on Pacers.com. I'm saying probably no Danny til December.

No one actually knows how severe it is so all of our takes can differ. As Vogel said, "indefinitely" can mean many things.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 01:02 PM
Seriously? I thought the interview with Vogel was great. I'm not sure what more you wanted him to say at this point. They'll know more when they know more.

The interview with Vogel was great. Montieth's write up told us absolutely nothing we didn't already know from previous Pacers reports. Granger was out indefinitely, he had this procedure this summer, he played in two preseason games, the end.

Coupe
10-30-2012, 01:04 PM
Indiana Pacers ‏@Pacers
"Gerald Green becomes our starting small forward." - video: http://on.nba.com/Pjoql0 - Coach Vogel discusses @dgranger33's injury.

daschysta
10-30-2012, 01:12 PM
I'm still on it. I honestly don't think we have enough to pick up his slack. Everyone is so high on Gerald Green filling in, that leaves our bench thinner. The bench is vital here. More so with Green on it. And what if PG doesn't step it up and only gives us 9 PPG?

The magnitude of this loss is more severe than some of you think. It's denial, I'm sure.

9 ppg? ***** , he averaged 12 in 28 minutes last year. Whose in denial?

Lance George
10-30-2012, 01:13 PM
I'm disappointed that Danny is out, but I'm excited to see what Gerald Green and especially Paul George can do with increased roles in the offense.

Erndog
10-30-2012, 01:15 PM
I've lurked on this forum for 2 years now - and this awful news is what prompted me to FINALLY register.

This is a big bummer. I know some people will scoff if off and say "oh well, this could be good. It's PG time!" and while that is true to an extent, no matter how you slice it losing your best player (and probably most respected player throughout the league) is never a good thing. I can't tell you how many times I hear the opposing teams broadcasters glowingly praise Danny throughout the course of a game. I live in Ottawa, Canada so I have to watch all my Pacers ball on the super sports package and I get the home teams' feed. Anyways, whether it's Sacramento, or Portland or LA or Toronto, it's always the same story. "You have to watch Danny," "You don't want Granger heating up here," "That's what makes DG such a great player", "You see what Danny did there?" etc.

Without a doubt this is a severe blow. His leadership, scoring, defense and shooting will all be sorely missed, but I think people are really ignoring what will be missed most.... his presense. No offense to the rest of the team (God love em), but I don't think opposing teams are sitting back worring too much about Hill/Green/George/West/etc. (Hibbert sure).

Looking forward to finally contributing to this board! Any other Canadian-Pacers fans around?

Major Cold
10-30-2012, 01:27 PM
This is a cause for concern. Nene is out indefinetly as well. These reports, to your best scorer, should never have you say, "No big deal".

Goyle
10-30-2012, 01:28 PM
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/w00tdotcom/1337898337950.gif

:laugh:

I'm pretty worried about this. I hope Lance is ready.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 01:40 PM
The worry Pacers officials had when they saw how Danny Granger was moving after going up for a layup attempt during the first quarter of last week’s preseason finale against the Chicago Bulls became a reality late Tuesday morning when the team announced that their leading scorer for the past five years will be out indefinitely with soreness in his left knee.

Granger said after the Chicago game that he felt a sharp pain in his knee when he landed on it following that play and that his knee was testing him.

The fact that Granger, who had plasma injected in his knee last month, made that comment was eyebrow raising because he has never been a player to complain about pain.

One person noticed a couple weeks ago that Granger wasn’t moving well during the little bit of practice time he was participating in. That became even more apparent during the game against the Bulls. On plays Granger would normally attack the basket aggressively, he was timid as if he was worried about his knee.

Now, a day before their season opener north of the border in Toronto, the Pacers will be without their leading scorer.

Say what you want about Granger not being a franchise player, but he’s the one player on the roster teams worry about going off for a 30-point game. The Pacers have suddenly become an easier team to defend.

Frank Vogel plans to start Gerald Green without Granger out.

Doing that doesn’t put as much scoring pressure on Paul George. Green can help score and George’s defense won’t have to suffer as much.

Vogel could have started Sam Young if he wanted to make George their top-scoring threat because Young can guard the opponent’s best wing player.

Granger’s knee problem is the reason why I slid the Pacers down to the fourth seed in the Eastern Conference. It’s not a given that they’ll win the Central Division if Granger’s out for an extended amount of time.

NBA TV’s Chris Webber wasn’t sold on the Pacers winning the Central even with Granger in the lineup.

“Indiana still has to go through Chicago, I don’t know if they can beat Chicago without (Derrick) Rose,” Webber said last week.

or all you fans who said the Pacers are better without Granger, we’re about find out if your notion is true.

Twitter.com/MikewellsNBA





http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2012/10/30/pacers-the-central-division-isnt-a-given-if-grangers-out-for-an-extended-time/

kent beckley
10-30-2012, 01:45 PM
:laugh:

I'm pretty worried about this. I hope Lance is ready.


With all due respect, wasn't he 'Born Ready'

Last year Paul averaged 14.5 and 7.8 rebounds in the four games Danny was out, which is pretty good. He did this while shooting 28% from the field. Uhhhhh, I am more than a little bit concerned.

duke dynamite
10-30-2012, 01:49 PM
9 ppg? ***** , he averaged 12 in 28 minutes last year. Whose in denial?

That was an exaggeration...

dal9
10-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Get him back to 100% a few weeks before the playoffs and no worries.

diamonddave00
10-30-2012, 02:01 PM
I figure David West can raise his avg to around 16, Paul and Gerald around 15, Hibbert 14, Hill 12 , Augustin 9 or 10 , Mahinmi 8 scoring shouldn.t be a huge problem.

Figure George, Green , Hill and Augustin play around 30 minutes per game with Young and Stephenson 12 that covers the sg, sf, pg minutes.

Hibbert and West 30 , Mahinmi 25, and Hansbrough 11 or so covers the bigs minutes.

Depth is a good thing to have on a no star team.

Pacergeek
10-30-2012, 02:06 PM
Paul and Lance will both have to step up and be team leaders

Derek2k3
10-30-2012, 02:06 PM
Here's the "glass half full" perspective:

Danny is out for a month or two, returns to limited minutes in January/February. At that point the Pacers have managed to hover around the 4th seed in the East.

Danny returns to full strength by April, and come playoff time is the most rested starter in the playoffs for a top 3 seed Pacers team. H'ed have half the minutes on his legs than the other guys, would have seen his team manage without him taking the entire scoring load (which dramatically improves PG/Hibbert's confidence) and prevents him from playing too much "hero" ball in the ECF against Miami, leading to Roy averaging 30ppg against a weak frontcourt.

That's the best I can do.


Regarding the short term, people are forgetting that we have guys that can absolutely dominate a game offensively.

Hibbert is good for 15-20ppg
West will need to adjust his mindset from a supporting role to a more assertive role like he had in NO. Put him down for another 15-20ppg.
PG will probably feel Danny's absence the most, as he now becomes our primary perimeter threat. again, 15-20ppg

Ultimately, each night a guy like DJ/Gerald/Tyler/Ian needs to step up and get us 15+, which can happen. This team is built around balance in scoring and great defense. That can still happen with Danny out, and Vogel has earned my trust.

Anyone think the FO may make a run at another scorer if this ends up being a longer term issue, like 10-12 weeks? Who would possibly be available/what would our cap limitations be?

Unclebuck
10-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Remember the Pacers were extremely fortunate last year when it came to injuries. They were one of the healthiest teams in the league and probably the healthiest Pacers team since the late 90's. So we should expect some injuries this year - just the law of averages.

The only player last year to miss anything close to a significant number of games was Hill and he only missed 16. I would bet that no other team had fewer injuries to their top 8 or 9 guys. Thunder I think we pretty good, but Maynor only played in 9 games.

NapTonius Monk
10-30-2012, 02:49 PM
If that is the reason it is kind of a stupid reason. I think the better reason to not start Green is to have a scorer coming off the bench.Isn't that technically the same thing Conrad is saying? He wants the continuity of Green coming off the bench as the primary scorer, and to get used to playing that role.

BlueCollarColts
10-30-2012, 03:11 PM
we have a deep team, with plenty of options to score, IMO if Granger comes back soon it could be a blessing inn disguise, it could make Paul George assert himself more on offense which could be a blessing for us, if Granger however misses a lot of time then we are in trouble, he is still our best player

Marlin
10-30-2012, 03:17 PM
Here's the thing everyone should be asking themselves at least for the regular season, do you think Gerald Green can score 16-18PPG on 40% shooting from the field if given Danny's minutes? If the answer is yes, then there is no reason the team should be much worse than last year if at all. In fact they should still be better if Mahinmi can be a big upgrade and if Roy can continue to improve along with Paul.

I happen to believe Green can definitely do that.

I don't. But I think Gerald can give us a solid 12-13 PPG for quite some time (which would be Paul's average last season), and that Paul himself can score the 16-18 PPG you mentioned. So, scoring wise, we could be fine.

Leadership, defense, chemistry, balls in the last minute...that's another thing. Hopefully it works out fine anyway.

Bball
10-30-2012, 03:21 PM
That is the weakest full update I have ever seen, why even publish that crap? Thanks for telling us absolutely nothing new Montieth.

Well... I got something new from it: Monteith has a job writing for the Pacers?

I didn't know that...

Peck
10-30-2012, 03:25 PM
Well... I got something new from it: Monteith has a job writing for the Pacers?

I didn't know that...

But you had to suspect it was coming. I mean come on Ol Buggeyes is back why would you not expect the bunny to be far behind? :)

PacerPenguins
10-30-2012, 03:27 PM
better now than the end of the season..... how did he hurt it anyway, was it during something in the off season?

MvPlumlee
10-30-2012, 03:30 PM
When one door closes another door opens.

I'm still optimistic like Frank. This is were not having a superstar comes in handy. We are deep with lots of options who get a chance to step it up now.
Let's go Pacers and get healthy Danny!

Strummer
10-30-2012, 03:45 PM
Well... I got something new from it: Monteith has a job writing for the Pacers?

I didn't know that...

He replaced Conrad Brunner earlier this year. You should go back and read some of Montieth's posts on Pacers.com. I've really enjoyed having him back. (but I like Conrad too). For example, I enjoyed this article on Warren Jabali.
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/montieth/ex-pacers-player-warren-jabali-soared-retirement

Oh, I should mention Danny so this doesn't seem off topic. It'll be interesting to see how Frank handles the substitutions. I'm thinking we need either Paul George or Gerald Green on the floor at all times. Unless Hill is going to sometimes play the 2 with Young at the 3.

NapTonius Monk
10-30-2012, 03:48 PM
Paul and Lance will both have to step up and be team leaders
I see no part of this that calls for Lance to lead our team in anything. I'll just settle for consistent production and call it a day with Lance.

Ace E.Anderson
10-30-2012, 04:10 PM
better now than the end of the season..... how did he hurt it anyway, was it during something in the off season?

There was a report that he hurt it in the Heat series. Was fine, and then re-aggravated the injury while working out in the summer.

mattie
10-30-2012, 04:20 PM
By the way, no matter how the coach, or the team labels the positions, Gerald Green will be playing the two, and Paul George will be playing the 3.

Simply because of matchups, PG will end up having to defend all the 3's, while Green will defend the 2's. Green still seems like he has a small frame and I assume a full game against a starting three would get himself abused. (and obviously Vogel won't let that happen)

I don't need the Spurs to tell me Duncan plays center, and I don't need the Pacers to tell me George will be playing 3.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 04:24 PM
While I would point out to everyone that like I said, indefinitely is never a good word, I would also say that projections that he will miss the entire season also would seem to be way out there at this point.

bballpacen
10-30-2012, 04:24 PM
Good stuff.

1.) I agree, but moreso against the big physical SFs in the league. Lebron of course, but even guys like Deng or even Evan Turner are stronger than Green and PG. Sam Young can match up some, but you loose much on the other end.

This...

I am not as concerned with replacing the production of DG, rather I am concerned with the match up problems that we are going to face night in on the defensive end... The difference from having a GG or even a PG in some cases guarding the opposing SF is going to be greater than the point production that we would have from those two instead of Granger...

However, this is still only the Oct/Nov we are talking about, and there is alot of ball left to be played... This team as constructed is designed to withstand short absenses from the core... Lets all just hope that this is going to be just that, a short absense...

mattie
10-30-2012, 04:28 PM
We'll see how Paul does, but I'm really hoping he put on the strength where he can handle opposing 3's, even the physical ones like 'Melo, LeBron and the like...

yoadknux
10-30-2012, 04:34 PM
I'm still on it. I honestly don't think we have enough to pick up his slack. Everyone is so high on Gerald Green filling in, that leaves our bench thinner. The bench is vital here. More so with Green on it. And what if PG doesn't step it up and only gives us 9 PPG?

The magnitude of this loss is more severe than some of you think. It's denial, I'm sure.
Just wait until bigger forwards start posting up Green or George, and then these guys who are thrilled to see the dunking George/Green duo will suddenly understand why having a bulky, boring SF like Granger is important

Green is so overrated here... People think he's at least an all-star... I don't think he can score 18 ppg at all... His sample size of 12 ppg had a lot to do with him playing with one of the best point guards in the league... Saying Green could fill in for Granger is like saying Morrow could fill in for Joe Johnson in Atlanta... How many of you would say that?

Eleazar
10-30-2012, 04:37 PM
Isn't that technically the same thing Conrad is saying? He wants the continuity of Green coming off the bench as the primary scorer, and to get used to playing that role.

No, what I said is about in game tactics and ignores continuity. Same results though, just one does it for real world reasons, and the other is just mythical BS.

pizza guy
10-30-2012, 04:38 PM
What was the story about a month ago that Paul didn't step up and take control on his high school team until the coach told him to? I see that happening here now. This definitely adds an interesting story to this season.

Eleazar
10-30-2012, 04:45 PM
Just wait until bigger forwards start posting up Green or George, and then these guys who are thrilled to see the dunking George/Green duo will suddenly understand why having a bulky, boring SF like Granger is important

Green is so overrated here... People think he's at least an all-star... I don't think he can score 18 ppg at all... His sample size of 12 ppg had a lot to do with him playing with one of the best point guards in the league... Saying Green could fill in for Granger is like saying Morrow could fill in for Joe Johnson in Atlanta... How many of you would say that?

Personally when I look at Green I see him as a SG, same with George. Neither have the build to be a starting SF. George may develop it one day, or may show he is skilled enough to over come it. Green on the other is mature both in skill and physically. He should be fine against back-up SF's who tend to not be as big and athletic, but I never want to see him guarding any of the top SF's.

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Just wait until bigger forwards start posting up Green or George, and then these guys who are thrilled to see the dunking George/Green duo will suddenly understand why having a bulky, boring SF like Granger is important

Green is so overrated here... People think he's at least an all-star... I don't think he can score 18 ppg at all... His sample size of 12 ppg had a lot to do with him playing with one of the best point guards in the league... Saying Green could fill in for Granger is like saying Morrow could fill in for Joe Johnson in Atlanta... How many of you would say that?


While I 100% agree with this, I'm also open to think that probably anybody is better than a handicap Danny Granger right? we are thinking about a healthy Danny but how do we know that he is going to be 100% healthy ever again? I guess I'm in the middle, yes nobody can replace a healthy Danny Granger but the part that we are forgetting is that he is not healthy.

BobbyMac
10-30-2012, 04:57 PM
I'm very sorry to see us lose our best player to an injury. However we need to have the team step up to the plate, not George, not Hill, not Hibbert but the team! I hope that Danny will be back soon.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 05:00 PM
Just wait until bigger forwards start posting up Green or George, and then these guys who are thrilled to see the dunking George/Green duo will suddenly understand why having a bulky, boring SF like Granger is important

Green is so overrated here... People think he's at least an all-star... I don't think he can score 18 ppg at all... His sample size of 12 ppg had a lot to do with him playing with one of the best point guards in the league... Saying Green could fill in for Granger is like saying Morrow could fill in for Joe Johnson in Atlanta... How many of you would say that?

I agree with you we need Granger playing ASAP to hold off opposing SFs and get the rotation back to where it should be.

I like Green. I think he'll do well here and bring things we've been looking for like the ability to create shots, but our strength as a team is having his energy and offense coming off the bench. He's not Danny Granger and I have a hard time seeing PG stepping up immediately.

We should be fine with PG and Green filling in for a short time and hopefully this isn't a lengthy absence for Granger.

mattie
10-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Obviously it is a no brainer that this hurts the Pacers a lot. Danny was a good defender that could physically matchup with any 3 in the league including LeBron. Paul obviously can defend any 2 in the game. This was a major asset seeing as Pacers had a top 5 wing combo defensively, along with Roy protecting the rim. This helped a lot.

However, theoretically, we could see improvements from the Pacers as a squad somewhat makeup for the loss of Granger. In the sense that the Pacers sort of maintain the success they had last year.

We could see Roy make some improvements and really establish himself as the best center in the East. That's a real possibility. He certainly has the skill to do it.

If Paul George makes a jump, and is able to defend the 3, and score the ball, than we could still see a pretty lethal wing combination in PG and Green. That is so long as we are able to "hide" (see Zach Lowe last week) Green on defense. If we can't honestly, I see Green getting abused like Dunleavy did a few years back.

With that said Green can score the ball without a doubt. He'll be a valuable scorer. But in the long run being able to hold your own on defense is much more valuable and so Green could end up being a liability out there. With Granger out, when the Pacers meet the Heat we already know that Wade will beat Green like a rented mule. That's going to be ugly.

But again, we hope the rest of the team makes progress, we hope Ian Mahinmi is a big contributor on the bench, and that George Hill is able to earn his contract.

All possibilities. Either way, there is no way this team is a contender without Granger obviously, but maybe they can still win 50 games. There is a lot of ifs for that to happen though.

McKeyFan
10-30-2012, 05:16 PM
Get him back to 100% a few weeks before the playoffs and no worries.
Except a year's worth of continuity.

xIndyFan
10-30-2012, 05:36 PM
Hmm, I have no idea. Seems a bit misleading to call them the exact same thing then.

docpaul can probably explain the difference between the procedure Danny had done in LA and the West German one, but here is the short version. In both cases, blood is removed from the patient and spun in a centrifuge to concentrate the platelets. In the US, the blood can then be re injected. What you cannot do in the US that you can do in West Germany is things like heating the blood. That is what they do in West Germany. They heat the platelet rich blood to make it work better.

Cousy47
10-30-2012, 05:50 PM
I'm not a stat geek, but how has that worked out during the preseason with Danny out? Hasn't PG had a green light from day one? I haven't seen anyone excited about his offense being much better this pre-season. I look for Danny's touches to be more divided between PG, Roy and West as the season starts, rather than a much higher usage rate of Paul.

Pacer Fan
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
This really sucks, Danny is the leader, the glue to this team. He brings the tough pills to the teammates. Some of you guys are fooling yourselves if you think that Green can bring what Danny does game after game or I'm wrong and Green is going to surprise the planet and I highly doubt this.

However, If Danny can get fixed and back by the break it should only strengthen the team. Danny will be able to fit right back in at a later date. This will give more opportunity for George and Green to prove themselves, but if they don't, it will be an ugly season without Danny. May be looking at a low seed going into the playoffs. God, I hope not!

I just pray that Danny's knee will be fine sooner rather then later!

xBulletproof
10-30-2012, 06:31 PM
Let's hope it just needs a scope!

Bball
10-30-2012, 06:41 PM
But you had to suspect it was coming. I mean come on Ol Buggeyes is back why would you not expect the bunny to be far behind? :)

With Monteith in place, a potentially chronic knee problem for Granger, and Walsh back in the front office all will be right in the world as soon as Walsh is able to offer Granger a max extension and complete the cycle.

jeffg-body
10-30-2012, 07:11 PM
I am curious to see PG and Green look on the court together. They might be pushed around some on one end of the court with the larger SF's in the league but they can create mismatch situations on the other end with their length and athleticism. I see DW taking the leadership role along with big Roy. It makes us weaker for sure overall but I hope they don't try to push Danny back too soon.

CJ Jones
10-30-2012, 07:23 PM
Personally when I look at Green I see him as a SG, same with George. Neither have the build to be a starting SF. George may develop it one day, or may show he is skilled enough to over come it. Green on the other is mature both in skill and physically. He should be fine against back-up SF's who tend to not be as big and athletic, but I never want to see him guarding any of the top SF's.

So is 6'10" 225-230 too big or small for a SF?

Paul will be fine. He'll guard the opposing teams best wing like he did the majority of last season. This is big test for him no doubt

It's an even bigger test for Lance IMO. I think he really needs to come out the gate playing well. Young will get wing minutes so we'll see what he can bring to the team, and if as I suspect, Young plays solid, it'll be hard for Coach to justify giving Lance minutes when Danny comes back if he's not at least playing as well as Young. Competition's always good, though.

We're not going to be as good without Danny, obviously. I'd like to know where Wells heard we would. I gotta feeling he heard it from some fool on twitter or made it up.

Coopdog23
10-30-2012, 07:33 PM
Big year for PG and Roy

danman
10-30-2012, 07:36 PM
Course not. But it's not the end of the world. It means what it means, indefinitely. I remain of the opinion that it's overblown.

The nonchalant thing is as bad as hysteria. They held Danny out all preseason, then tested it for all of 12 minutes, and it swelled. That is bad. In fact, it's exactly what Bender fought and lost.

When "rest" is tried and fails, you're in a bad place.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 07:40 PM
While I 100% agree with this, I'm also open to think that probably anybody is better than a handicap Danny Granger right? we are thinking about a healthy Danny but how do we know that he is going to be 100% healthy ever again? I guess I'm in the middle, yes nobody can replace a healthy Danny Granger but the part that we are forgetting is that he is not healthy.

How about the Danny we had for most of last year? Danny struggled for most of the season. I'm not saying we can completely replace him but i think we can come close with a team effort. Isn't that the whole point of this team's design. And we are not 100% sure how long Danny will be out. Hopefully we have a time table by Friday, good or bad, just so we know.

Trader Joe
10-30-2012, 07:45 PM
Also why is Paul too small too guard the 3? That is just as goofy.as saying he's not quick enough to guard the 2. Not.every SF is Melo or Bron. And heck those two might play the 4 for their teams

vnzla81
10-30-2012, 07:47 PM
How about the Danny we had for most of last year? Danny struggled for most of the season. I'm not saying we can completely replace him but i think we can come close with a team effort. Isn't that the whole point of this team's design. And we are not 100% sure how long Danny will be out. Hopefully we have a time table by Friday, good or bad, just so we know.

Yep I guess that many here(including me) sometimes forget that the Danny of last year was not that good either, I guess I'm gonna have to see how Green and George do for me to believe that either one of them can replace the "old Danny" not the broken down one, anybody can replace "broken down Danny".

BlueNGold
10-30-2012, 07:54 PM
This is going to hurt us...and I'm not a big Granger fan. He's a threat from deep and an important weapon on offense. His defense has also improved a little. He is probably the #2 guy on the Pacers in terms of needing him in the game...with Hibbert of course being #1.

We have several other options incluing PG, Hill and Green...but none of them are where Danny is. PG will need to take a huge leap this year to match Danny.

CJ Jones
10-30-2012, 07:56 PM
Also why is Paul too small too guard the 3? That is just as goofy.as saying he's not quick enough to guard the 2. Not.every SF is Melo or Bron. And heck those two might play the 4 for their teams

Yeah, I don't get. Paul guards those guys better than Danny anyway. Why someone worries about SFs posting up is beyond me. Even the ones that can rarely do.

BlueNGold
10-30-2012, 09:22 PM
Paul will be more capable of guarding the bigger SF's going forward...although LeBron is really too much for anyone. But let's not dig Danny's grave yet. He will probably be back well before the end of the season.

Isaac
10-30-2012, 09:35 PM
Everyone is focused on how PG and Green will fill in, but I think it's David West who will be asked to carry more of the scoring load. We're going to see him be our top scorer for the entire time Danny is out.

aamcguy
10-30-2012, 09:41 PM
Everyone is focused on how PG and Green will fill in, but I think it's David West who will be asked to carry more of the scoring load. We're going to see him be our top scorer for the entire time Danny is out.

I agree completely. I think there'll be more PnR for him, and I think there will be more possessions ultimately ending in post-ups. So I think Hibbert will also get an extra shot or 2 a night.

rock747
10-30-2012, 09:47 PM
This is disappointing news... hopefully this doesn't turn into something that lasts a long time.

cdash
10-30-2012, 09:50 PM
Everyone has to step up--not just one or two guys. The team needs to step up. Vogel needs to step up. We need to come out and show we are for real. This isn't a team built around one superstar, and one could make a very convincing argument that Danny isn't even our best player. I'm not saying he will be easy to replace, but one injury to a team based on balance shouldn't sink the ship. Let's just hope Danny has a speedy recovery and this isn't anything truly serious.

xIndyFan
10-30-2012, 09:52 PM
Pacers have a good team. Good enough, imo, to beat the bad teams in the NBA with or without Danny. or anyone else for that matter. But to beat the MIA, BOS, LAL, OKC, etc. the Pacers are going to need Danny. To be a 50 win team they need Danny.

Trophy
10-30-2012, 10:11 PM
Trying not to dwell on this too much. First game of the year tomorrow! :dance:

Isaac
10-30-2012, 10:12 PM
I agree completely. I think there'll be more PnR for him, and I think there will be more possessions ultimately ending in post-ups. So I think Hibbert will also get an extra shot or 2 a night.

Yup. We already have an offense predicated on feeding the post, but Vogel will be stressing this even more with Danny out. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's going to have a tremendously positive effect on the season; assuming Danny comes back healthy before the All-Star break, but misses at least all of November. The reason I say this is that our offensive philosophy has some inconsistencies when Danny is playing. Danny's our best scorer, but he isn't the focal point of our offense. Without Danny in the lineup, the philosophy matches the personnel. If we can rack up some wins in the first few months while getting West, Hibbert and Paul George going offensively then Danny can slide in and take the team to the next level.

I may be crazy but I think Danny missing the first month of two could increase our championship odds. The worst case scenario is Danny coming back in a week or so and still dealing with his knee. Let's shut him down until he is 100%. This team is still good enough to be top 4 in the East without him.

Derek2k3
10-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I don't get. Paul guards those guys better than Danny anyway. Why someone worries about SFs posting up is beyond me. Even the ones that can rarely do.

Yeah, that's not really true.

Danny was the only guy on our roster even semi-effective defensively against Bron, and was one of 2 that had success covering Melo (Dahntay was the other.)

Danny's defense against guys like that is one of the most underrated parts of his game. This team defends so much better when Danny is on the floor, that's what I'm concerned about.

aamcguy
10-30-2012, 11:06 PM
Paul George does his best defending against ball-dominant guards. But it's not like he is terrible at guarding more physical SFs, just up to this point it's not his strong suit. If Hibbert and PG weren't showing real signs of improvement, i would be more worried at the loss of Granger's defense. Even when he was shooting at 35% early last year, the team normally changed for the better when he came into the game and for the worse when he left.

That said, I think we're a much more mentally tough team this year.

clownskull
10-30-2012, 11:16 PM
Also why is Paul too small too guard the 3? That is just as goofy.as saying he's not quick enough to guard the 2. Not.every SF is Melo or Bron. And heck those two might play the 4 for their teams

well, i think it has to do more with his slight build. he is tall enough at 6-8/6-9ish to play most any sf in the game. if someone like lebron decides to post him up, paul will struggle but then again- who doesn't?
i think he could do the job fine enough.
although i would look to play him on whoever is the more dangerous of the 2 spots he can he play be it the 2 or 3.

Brad8888
10-30-2012, 11:30 PM
The way this is being handled is very familiar somehow. It seems very similar to what we were being told about Mike Dunleavy's knee, all the way down to trying to play him for a quarter in preseason where Dunleavy plainly couldn't move effectively and acted like he couldn't trust his knee, and I think that the team doctors were telling him to play through it to break up scar tissue that he had had on a chronic basis. They then finally figured out the calcification issue of his tendon and that led him to miss the next season and the first part of the following.

There is no actual basis for belief that the same thing is going on with Danny, but I still wonder about the chronic issue that he has had since college, which is something else he shares with Dunleavy.

CJ Jones
10-31-2012, 02:25 AM
Yeah, that's not really true.

Sorry, but Danny can't even slow those two guys down.

Here's Melo's career stats against Danny:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=grangda01&p2=anthoca01#stats::none

...and LeBron's:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=grangda01&p2=jamesle01#stats::none
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=grangda01&p2=jamesle01#stats_playoffs::none

I'll take Paul all day, at least he can stay in front of them. I thought he looked good defending them last year in limited time. Especially Melo

I see why people who love stats would think Paul might struggle against SFs, but I don't buy it yet. It's such a small sample size, and when he has defended SFs it's primarily been the better ones. He hasn't had the opportunity to pad his stats against the Kleizas, Delfinos and Turkoglus of the league, and there's quite a few of them at SF. Imagine these guys trying to put the ball on the floor against Paul... lol. Some of them wouldn't even be able to get a shot up. So, needless to say, I think he'll be fine guarding them now and in the future.

MvPlumlee
10-31-2012, 06:43 AM
Frank has literally said George is our best SF defender with Young the second best and I don't see how you can disagree with that.

If you think Gerald and Paul are much alike when it comes to guarding big SFs, I highly recommend you to watch the Bulls game (again) or tweet Deng.

The only reason Granger gets to defend Lebron and Melo is because he doesn't make those rookie or sophomore mistakes anymore and who else would he guard anyway? Wade?
George will keep playing the 2 to maintain continuity when Granger comes back.

CJ Jones
10-31-2012, 02:18 PM
Frank has literally said George is our best SF defender with Young the second best and I don't see how you can disagree with that.



The myth that Paul's too weak started last year with people who like Danny's game and don't want to see him replaced, and then it was carried on from there by the few on here that are blinded by statistics. Now it's infected the board to the point that it doesn't even matter what the coaches say because the stats don't lie!

pacers74
10-31-2012, 02:34 PM
I was just thinking that Sam Young should be able to do a good job backing up the SF spot. This opens up time for Lance at SG. It is now or never with Granger out. He is definelty one of the 4 wings tonight. I hope he steps it up.

Coopdog23
10-31-2012, 02:51 PM
Our post guys will have to be huge, but what I have seen of West and Hibbert, they should do fine.

Strummer
10-31-2012, 05:31 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Frank handles the substitutions. I'm thinking we need either Paul George or Gerald Green on the floor at all times.

You called it!


So to offset the loss of Granger, Pacers coach Frank Vogel plans to have at least Gerald Green or Paul George on the court as much as possible so that they can have a scoring option on the wing.

George and Green will start at shooting guard and small forward, respectively, in tonight’s season opener at Toronto. Lance Stephenson will back up George at shooting guard and Sam Young moves into the backup small forward position behind Green.

“We will stagger the rotation so that the second unit doesn’t all of a sudden become Lance and Sam Young out there together,” Vogel said. “They may see some minutes together, but I’ll try to keep Paul or Gerald on the court at one time.”
http://www.indystar.com/article/20121031/SPORTS04/121031029/Pacers-Granger-out-Vogel-says-George-Green-will-see-more-court-time

Trader Joe
10-31-2012, 06:30 PM
Watching the pregame I can't get any sort of a vibe on how long Danny is gonna be out when they talk about him. I have no idea if that is good or bad.

Anthem
10-31-2012, 09:57 PM
I watched Toronto's broadcast. Did the Indiana media team (TV or radio) say anything?

Erndog
11-01-2012, 02:47 PM
Any sort of update? What's the latest?

Anthem
11-02-2012, 10:08 PM
I didn't get to hear any Pacers commentary, my feed was from the Bobcats.

Was Granger's injury discussed at all today?

BlueCollarColts
11-02-2012, 10:47 PM
I didn't get to hear any Pacers commentary, my feed was from the Bobcats.

Was Granger's injury discussed at all today?
nope, just said that he is out indefinitely, we need his scoring

Cody.
11-02-2012, 10:52 PM
Yea we need Grangers scoring and leadership badly. This team doesnt look any better than a 7th or 8th seed team as of right now. Green just doesnt work well starting for the Pacers. I would like to see Stephenson start a couple of games to see how that works out. I doubt it happens though.

Anthem
11-02-2012, 11:02 PM
We don't need Lance with the starters, there's enough scorers there already and he seems to work best as the offensive focus. I'd be up for giving Young a run with the starters, and letting Green come off the bench to see if that settles his nerves.

Johanvil
11-03-2012, 06:11 AM
I'd be up for giving Young a run with the starters, and letting Green come off the bench to see if that settles his nerves.

Yeah I'm in for that and Young might be a better match for the starting 5.Any updates btw with his injury last night?

CJ Jones
11-03-2012, 06:38 AM
It didn't look good. I expect he'll miss some time.

Anthem
11-03-2012, 11:03 PM
It didn't look good.
Is that your analysis, or did somebody from the team say that?

Sandman21
11-04-2012, 03:15 AM
Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness

Vogel on @dgranger33: "it's going to be a couple days for them to gather all the information and make a decision on a course of action."
Retweeted by THE PACER MANIAC

rexnom
11-04-2012, 03:19 AM
Course or action? I don't like the sound of that.

McKeyFan
11-04-2012, 08:03 AM
Granger has received one "second" opinion and is due for more feedback before a decision is made. At this point it appears the possibilities range from a short recovery period to surgery.
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/stephenson-stepping-showing-improvement

1984
11-04-2012, 01:14 PM
For whom the bell tolls.

CJ Jones
11-04-2012, 01:36 PM
Is that your analysis, or did somebody from the team say that?

Sorry, I was replying to the Sam Young question.