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MillerTime
10-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Josh Smith plans to explore free agency at the end of next season, when he will be eligible to sign a five-year deal.

Smith is limited to a three-year extension if he re-signs with the Hawks before June 30



http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/223977/Report_Josh_Smith_Will_Not_Sign_Extension_With_Haw ks#ixzz29Ibbi8N2

MillerTime
10-14-2012, 02:14 PM
When West expires, would we be able to offer Smith money?

hackashaq
10-14-2012, 02:18 PM
When West expires, would we be able to offer Smith money?

we have money to offer, but i think it won't be nearly enough. He'll get overpaid.

cgg
10-14-2012, 02:19 PM
When West expires, would we be able to offer Smith money?

Not enough.

BlueNGold
10-14-2012, 02:33 PM
We've already gone this route. Let's not do it again. We already have Lance and Gerald Green. Yes, they may be cleaning up their acts, but let's not repeat the JO era...please.

vnzla81
10-14-2012, 02:41 PM
Pacers should go all in for Josh Smith, but if course they won't go for it....

hackashaq
10-14-2012, 02:42 PM
We've already gone this route. Let's not do it again. We already have Lance and Gerald Green. Yes, they may be cleaning up their acts, but let's not repeat the JO era...please.

basically. i love this Pacers team. if you are going to replace some guys, replace them with other smart, winning, coachable guys.

cgg
10-14-2012, 02:44 PM
Pacers should go all in for Josh Smith, but if course they won't go for it....

I don't see where they would get cap space for it either way.

hackashaq
10-14-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't see where they would get cap space for it either way.

they could sign and trade him for Hibbert, I think the Hawks would do it in a blink :-p
but i think i'd watch far less Pacers games if that happened

Brohan Cruyff
10-14-2012, 03:01 PM
I'd be interested-ish in him if we wouldn't have to massively overpay to get him. And he's not the kind of guy I want to overpay for, so, no.

QuickRelease
10-14-2012, 03:21 PM
How would signing Smith recreate the JO era?

Brohan Cruyff
10-14-2012, 03:25 PM
How would signing Smith recreate the JO era?

Good question, actually. Is there some kind of legal trouble he's had that I've missed? Unless by JO you mean Jim O'Brien, and this is a reference to jacking up three-pointers at every opportunity. Which is a thing.

vnzla81
10-14-2012, 03:57 PM
How would signing Smith recreate the JO era?

I have no idea, it's Smith meant to have knee issues from the time the Pacers get him?

xBulletproof
10-14-2012, 04:41 PM
No, he means putting talent above intelligence and character.

rexnom
10-14-2012, 05:11 PM
How would we go all-in on Smith? We won't be a FA player.

MillerTime
10-14-2012, 05:21 PM
How would we go all-in on Smith? We won't be a FA player.

Smith will be a FA in 2014....at that time Granger will expire, along with others. We'll only have $34.5 million in salary - though I'm sure we'll have others.

I don't think the Hawks will let Smith walk....they'll at least trade and get some asset(s) in return.

hackashaq
10-14-2012, 05:23 PM
He will be a free agent after this season.

CableKC
10-14-2012, 05:43 PM
Pass. He's talented....but I think that some Team is going to offer him an OVERPAID Near MAX Contract offer...which is more than enough reason for me to say no.

Mourning
10-14-2012, 06:33 PM
Maybe an interesting player for Dallas. He's not coming here because he very likely doesn't want to come here and I suspect management doesn't want him because of what B&G mentioned earlier in this topic aswell as having to sacrifice more then they will probably be willing to (like Danny).

pizza guy
10-14-2012, 06:39 PM
I don't see how we're going to have the money to get it done, but it would be an all-in type of move. This would be a swing for the fences type of move. I could get behind it and really get excited for it. I think there may be better options than Smith as far as his fit within our team identity, but he would make our team more dynamic on both ends.

CableKC
10-14-2012, 07:29 PM
I think that if the Pacers make a move to spend $$$ for a PF in the 2013-2014 Offseason...it will be to make an offer to Milsap...not Josh Smith.

The Pacers have shown interest in Milsap before and there are far less question marks when it comes to being a coachable Player that won't butt heads with the Coaching Staff and FO.

PacersHomer
10-14-2012, 07:31 PM
I'd love to have him but I doubt we can afford him.

yoadknux
10-14-2012, 08:59 PM
Josh Smith is a really really versatile and fun to watch player, but he doesn't fit our style of play. I know what he's capable of; I know that he's a great defender, great rebounder, outstanding shot blocker, good ball handler/passer, physical, can help with the scoring... But he's a knucklehead. Look beyond the stats and highlights. It's easy to see that he settles for jumpers and takes more threes than he probably should. He's also not really mature yet. I think he'd be a good #2 option next to a vet vocal superstar - like Kobe or Wade, guys who would make him better mentally and more focused. So yeah, he doesn't fit in our team

And well, lets face it, we can't really sign him unless we dump one of Hill, Granger or Hibbert and even if we do find some magical way of doing that we're gonna need to kiss George or Granger goodbye at some point.

ilive4sports
10-14-2012, 09:53 PM
Meh too far down the line right now. Let's get through this season and see how things go. Obviously keep an open mind on potential moves, but making a bid on a 2014 FA really is pointless to discuss at the moment. What if West puts up 16 and 8 this season along side Hibbert getting his? No reason for Smith then.

Cousy47
10-15-2012, 11:00 AM
If Atlanta decides along the way to let Josh walk, I would love to see a West, Tyler/Pender, DJA or whatever trade for him. JSmith, if he bought into Franks way of playing, is an almost unstopable 4. IMO, he would be an even better 3. His speed, ball handling ability and decent 3 ball would open the middle for Roy. He and Danny could rotate the 3 and 4 position as needed and/or give us a 3 man rotation along with PGeorge to be awesome, if we should find a true PF in IM or Plumlee. If we have a player/players that we could trade for JS, we would be silly to not go for it. That kind of ability just doesn't come along every day.

Sparhawk
10-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Would be nice to land Josh Smith. Dude has really matured his game last season without Horford.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 12:22 PM
Until he proves me wrong this season, I'd rather spend a more modest amount to keep David West, than spend an exorbitant amount to bring in Josh Smith.

Smith is the better player, he's younger, he's more athletic, and he'd probably be a better fit next to Hibbert, but I don't think his personality meshes with what they are trying to do. I also don't see it as a move that would put us into a tier, with the true contenders in the league, and thus not worth the investment.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 01:04 PM
There is not doubt that Josh Smith makes the Pacers contenders, he can be the player that can go head to head with Lebron, he can guard Lebron, he can block shots and he can rebound pretty well too(9.6rpg).


Edit: Imagine a team where you have Hill, PG, Danny, JS and Hibbert? :drool:

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Josh Smith is going to go head to head with Lebron James? I thought our problem right now is just that we were the Hawks all over again. If Josh Smith is that good why weren't the Hawks going head to head with Lebron James all these years?

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 01:20 PM
Josh Smith is going to go head to head with Lebron James? I thought our problem right now is just that we were the Hawks all over again. If Josh Smith is that good why weren't the Hawks going head to head with Lebron James all these years?

People love to ignore it but to me one of the biggest problems and why Atlanta was never able to do much was the inability of the front office to get a good coach, every coach they got wanted to play ISO ball, not only that but they never had a pass first point guard or a floor leader.

And yes Josh Smith is good enough to go head to head with Lebron, no saying that he is going to outscore Lebron but his productivity compared to Lebron can be pretty close.

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 01:23 PM
People love to ignore it but to me one of the biggest problems and why Atlanta was never able to do much was the inability of the front office to get a good coach, every coach they got wanted to play ISO ball, not only that but they never had a pass first point guard or a floor leader.

And yes Josh Smith is good enough to go head to head with Lebron.


My head just asploded.

bballpacen
10-15-2012, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't say the Josh Smith can go head to head with LBJ... But he can match up well against him...

And if you could get Smith while keeping Roy, DG and PG, then you do it... Defense has proven that it could win titles, and that would probably be the best defensive lineup in the Association... Further, you are more flexible with a Smith in the lineup who can bring the ball up the court for stretches...

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 01:43 PM
My head just asploded.

It's not as crazy as you think, Lebron is of course the best player in the NBA and the most efficient player in the NBA but guess what? Josh Smith is the 8th must efficient player in the NBA, just look at their numbers:

Lebron 27.1ppg 7.9rpg 6.2apg 1.9stpg 0.81bpg and 29.9 efficiency

Josh Smith 18.8ppg 9.6rpg 3.9apg 1.4stpg 1.74bpg and 22.1 efficiency


http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22011&conf=OVERALL&position=2&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 01:49 PM
Stats don't tell the whole story Vnzla

;)

Cousy47
10-15-2012, 01:57 PM
I never really thought about JSmith going head to head with LeBron as a reason to trade/sign hime. No one in the league can match head to head with LBJ at this time, IMO. The thing Smith can do is make Miami suffer for moving Bosh to the 5 and help clear the paint for Roy with his speed. The trade I suggested would give Atl. more salary cap and would only work if they are going to rebuild around Thornton or if they really believe Smith is leaving home.

ilive4sports
10-15-2012, 02:27 PM
LeBron James vs ATL last season:
27.3ppg 55% 10rpg 3apg 1spg .67bpg 2.7TOs

LeBron James vs IND last season:
avg: 24.5ppg 46% 8.8rpg 3.8apg 2.5spg .25bpg 3.5TOs

So LeBron scored less, shot worse, rebounded less and turned the ball over more against the team that didn't have Josh Smith, the player who can go head to head with him and guard LeBron.

For fun, here is Smith's stats vs Miami last season:
13.3ppg 37% 6.3rpg 4apg 1spg 1.67bpg 1 TOs

Head to head alright...

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 02:37 PM
LeBron James vs ATL last season:
27.3ppg 55% 10rpg 3apg 1spg .67bpg 2.7TOs

LeBron James vs IND last season:
avg: 24.5ppg 46% 8.8rpg 3.8apg 2.5spg .25bpg 3.5TOs

So LeBron scored less, shot worse, rebounded less and turned the ball over more against the team that didn't have Josh Smith, the player who can go head to head with him and guard LeBron.

For fun, here is Smith's stats vs Miami last season:
13.3ppg 37% 6.3rpg 4apg 1spg 1.67bpg 1 TOs

Head to head alright...

I bet that one team having Hibbert and the other team having Pachulia instead of Horford didn't have anything to do with it.........

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 02:45 PM
Getting a guy because "he can go head to head with Lebron," has got to be the most foolhardy argument anybody can make.

Nobody matches up with Lebron. If you are going to beat a Lebron-led team, you need to do it by outmatching them at the other 4 positions. Not by backing up the Brinks truck to an Ol' Blu's (read, senile old homeless man's) version of Lebron.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 02:51 PM
[Mackey_Rose;1510182]Getting a guy because "he can go head to head with Lebron," has got to be the most foolhardy argument anybody can make.


Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it foolhardy or whatever name you want to call it...


Nobody matches up with Lebron. If you are going to beat a Lebron-led team, you need to do it by outmatching them at the other 4 positions. Not by backing up the Brinks truck to an Ol' Blu's (read, senile old homeless man's) version of Lebron.

No s***......

ilive4sports
10-15-2012, 02:52 PM
Ok, fair enough. Although Horford did play in 1 game against the Heat last year. LeBron had 28, 7 and 6 on 61% shooting.

So lets look at 2011, when Horford was playing.

LeBron:
33.3ppg 51% 7.3rpg 5.3apg 1.7spg .25bpg

Smith:
13.3ppg 40% 6.3rpg 2.3apg 2spg 0bpg

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 02:59 PM
Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it foolhardy or whatever name you want to call it...

Foolhardy is not an insult. It's an adjective. Google it, or something.



No s***......





And yes Josh Smith is good enough to go head to head with Lebron, no saying that he is going to outscore Lebron but his productivity compared to Lebron can be pretty close.

WUT?

cgg
10-15-2012, 03:01 PM
Lebron can only make one of our players perform poorly at a time. If he was making that Josh Smith it wouldn't be Danny.

MillerTime
10-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Lebron can only make one of our players perform poorly at a time. If he was making that Josh Smith it wouldn't be Danny.

theres also Wade

yoadknux
10-15-2012, 03:03 PM
Edit: Imagine a team where you have Hill, PG, Danny, JS and Hibbert? :drool:
great NBA 2k13 team, but not one that will work out

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 03:25 PM
great NBA 2k13 team, but not one that will work out

I wouldn't say that. It's a very good team on paper. Should be easily a 50+ game winner. It isn't a contender.

Heisenberg
10-15-2012, 03:29 PM
Smith's not signing an extension because he could only get 3 years. He becomes an UFA he can get 5. It's one of the biggest problems with the new CBA.

BRushWithDeath
10-15-2012, 03:37 PM
Smith's not signing an extension because he could only get 3 years. He becomes an UFA he can get 5. It's one of the biggest problems with the new CBA.

Exactly. No player who is going to be attractive in free agency will sign an extension. Not only is there no incentive, there is an incentive not to.

It's exactly why all the handwringing over Dwight Howard's supposed snub of the Lakers by saying he wouldn't sign an extension was ridiculous. The same with Deron Williams and New Jersey/Brooklyn last summer.

If we make a thread about every player who refuses an extension under this CBA, we're going to get pretty tired.

BRushWithDeath
10-15-2012, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't say that. It's a very good team on paper. Should be easily a 50+ game winner. It isn't a contender.

It's closer than where we are now, but I agree.

Unfortunately, I don't see the player out there who turns us into a contender unless Chris Paul takes an enormous and extraordinarily unlikely leap of faith.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 03:46 PM
Foolhardy is not an insult. It's an adjective. Google it, or something.



WUT?

I know you understand what I'm trying to say.

My point is that in a game I expect a guy like JS to match at least 80% of Lebron's overall productivity(maybe more maybe less) unlike Danny or West, Josh Smith brings more to the table than either one of those guys, JS can also guard him, something that neither Danny or West can do, and yes Paul can do that too but who is going to guard Wade?

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 03:54 PM
I wouldn't say that. It's a very good team on paper. Should be easily a 50+ game winner. It isn't a contender.

They are closer to a contender with Josh Smith than they are right now, you don't think the Pacers beat Miami with Josh Smith instead of West or Danny last year? I do.

BRushWithDeath
10-15-2012, 03:57 PM
They are closer to a contender with Josh Smith than they are right now, you don't think the Pacers beat Miami with Josh Smith instead of West or Danny last year? I do.

No.

1000 times, no.

Since86
10-15-2012, 03:57 PM
You compared LeBron's efficiency rating and Josh Smith's efficiency rating in order to backup your point that Smith goes head to head with LeBron. Combine that with you saying that Smith needs to match 80% of LeBron's overall productivity.


Well, the efficiency stat that you used shows that Smith doesn't hit that 80% benchmark you just set.

LeBron efficiency=29.9
Smith efficiency= 22.1

22.1/29.9=73.9%

Now I'm sure that you're going to explain that your linked efficiency stats weren't the stats that you were trying to use, or that I'm not understanding you correctly, but it seems like your own arguments don't even add up.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 04:00 PM
They are closer to a contender with Josh Smith than they are right now, you don't think the Pacers beat Miami with Josh Smith instead of West or Danny last year? I do.

I think they have a better chance to beat them if it's Danny he replaces, instead of West. All in all, no, I don't think it makes a bit of a difference.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 04:05 PM
You compared LeBron's efficiency rating and Josh Smith's efficiency rating in order to backup your point that Smith goes head to head with LeBron. Combine that with you saying that Smith needs to match 80% of LeBron's overall productivity.


Well, the efficiency stat that you used shows that Smith doesn't hit that 80% benchmark you just set.

LeBron efficiency=29.9
Smith efficiency= 22.1

22.1/29.9=73.9%

Now I'm sure that you're going to explain that your linked efficiency stats weren't the stats that you were trying to use, or that I'm not understanding you correctly, but it seems like your own arguments don't even add up.

73.9% ok you win :laugh: ...

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 04:07 PM
Yes, but it is ridiculous to compare their stats in that way as if they actually mean anything.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 04:07 PM
I think they have a better chance to beat them if it's Danny he replaces, instead of West. All in all, no, I don't think it makes a bit of a difference.

I think he would have made a huge difference, defensively, rebounding, shot blocking,etc.

Do I think Battier was going to be able to stop Smith the same way he stopped West? No and 1000 times No!

BillS
10-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Problem is that it wouldn't be Josh Smith instead of Granger OR West. It would be Josh Smith instead of Granger AND West AND either PG or Roy.

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 04:11 PM
Problem is that it wouldn't be Josh Smith instead of Granger OR West. It would be Josh Smith instead of Granger AND West AND either PG or Roy.

2 of the 3, but your point remains, and is the biggest problem with this argument.

If we were going to get Smith (which I have advocated for before, so it isn't like I'm some anti-Josh Smith hater) it had to be as a trade for his current deal, while he was still locked in. It's too late now.

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 04:13 PM
I like Smith too, but I think it's funny after all of Vnzla's pining for a true superstar he's all hopped to go blow his load on Josh Smith.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 04:17 PM
I like Smith too, but I think it's funny after all of Vnzla's pining for a true superstar he's all hopped to go blow his load on Josh Smith.

A "true superstar" is not coming here and nope nobody is hopping to "blow his load" with Josh Smith, I think he could be had for a decent package, maybe the Pacers can do what Philly did when they got Bynum, who ever thought that Iguadola could have got Bynum for Philly? no me.

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Did you or did you not say you think we could beat the Heat with Josh Smith? That seems pretty excited to me.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 04:23 PM
Problem is that it wouldn't be Josh Smith instead of Granger OR West. It would be Josh Smith instead of Granger AND West AND either PG or Roy.

I bet this is what people in Philly said before they got Bynum or what people in LA said before they got Nash and Howard, or what the people in Dallas said before they got DC, so I guess my point is that you never know.

vnzla81
10-15-2012, 04:29 PM
Did you or did you not say you think we could beat the Heat with Josh Smith? That seems pretty excited to me.

People are saying(including you) that "the Pacers with a better bench can beat Miami" (last year and this one) but someway somehow I'm crazy for suggesting that a guy like Josh Smith could help the Pacers beat Miami? who is the crazy one?

Mackey_Rose
10-15-2012, 04:35 PM
People are saying(including you) that "the Pacers with a better bench can beat Miami" (last year and this one) but someway somehow I'm crazy for suggesting that a guy like Josh Smith could help the Pacers beat Miami? who is the crazy one?

You're all certifiable.

BillS
10-15-2012, 04:37 PM
You're all certifiable.

That's true but totally beside the point :D

Cousy47
10-15-2012, 05:15 PM
If we traded before the AS break wouldn't we be in the position to match whatever offer he recieved in FA, or would his Bird rights not come to us? My thought was, the only hope of getting JS, is if the Hawks are not going to do a max contract. With Ferry in charge there, who knows what direction they may be going. IIRC, Smith was born and raised about 40/50 miles north of Atl. His family is still there. The hometown lure is one big advantage the Hawks have of keeping him. Waiting until 2014 to try and make a move on a player of this caliber would make it impossible for the Pacers to resign West, George and Granger. This may well be the last year the Ps have a chance of trading for a "superstar" type player to team with PG and DG and Hibbs for a loooong time.

hackashaq
10-15-2012, 05:21 PM
If we traded before the AS break wouldn't we be in the position to match whatever offer he recieved in FA, or would his Bird rights not come to us? My thought was, the only hope of getting JS, is if the Hawks are not going to do a max contract. With Ferry in charge there, who knows what direction they may be going. IIRC, Smith was born and raised about 40/50 miles north of Atl. His family is still there. The hometown lure is one big advantage the Hawks have of keeping him. Waiting until 2014 to try and make a move on a player of this caliber would make it impossible for the Pacers to resign West, George and Granger. This may well be the last year the Ps have a chance of trading for a "superstar" type player to team with PG and DG and Hibbs for a loooong time.

Bird rights mean that you can go over cap to sign your player. You are thinking about restricted free agent rights. Those are different and apply to guys coming off rookie contracts (with a few exceptions, but basically, guys at the start of their careers).

Pacergeek
10-15-2012, 08:42 PM
If Josh could fall in line with the Pacers, and be a team guy, you would have to consider signing him as a free-agent with West's deal expiring

cgg
10-15-2012, 09:24 PM
Except we can't.

Young
10-15-2012, 10:11 PM
If Josh could fall in line with the Pacers, and be a team guy, you would have to consider signing him as a free-agent with West's deal expiring

Guys like Josh Smith are not going to change. Truth is people in general don't change that much throughout life. Sure people might change habits, basketball wise that would be watching film and putting in more time in the gym to improve. Personality wise? People really don't change much. (general speaking) I'd rather avoid players like Josh Smith regardless of talent.

Trader Joe
10-15-2012, 11:06 PM
People are saying(including you) that "the Pacers with a better bench can beat Miami" (last year and this one) but someway somehow I'm crazy for suggesting that a guy like Josh Smith could help the Pacers beat Miami? who is the crazy one?
I have not said that. Right now I don't think we can beat Miami ask anyone at the forum party if you don't believe me. Getting Josh Smith at the cost will take to get him will not do it either. I am upbeat about this season but I don't really see anyone beating Miami

Lance George
10-15-2012, 11:12 PM
he's all hopped to go blow his load on Josh Smith.

Is it wrong that this is the first thing I thought of when reading the above?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ab9aoQkMVls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mattie
10-16-2012, 02:43 AM
We shouldn't have the money to sign Josh Smith in the offseason. He doesn't look like much of an opportunity.

Anywho- Could the Pacers have beat Miami with Josh Smith instead of West last season? Yes, easily.

You have to remember Miami was severely undermanned once Bosh went out. Because they're such a top heavy team, they rely heavily on their top guys, and as much as people want to criticize Bosh, he is a really good player. This is the only reason why Indiana was able to get a 2-1 lead in the first place.

It's the only reason why Boston was able to get a 3-2 lead on Miami. The team was playing hurt and were not playing their best basketball.

Had Smith played instead of West, in an entirely unpossible hypothetical scenario, the Pacers could have dominated the boards, protected the rim even when Hibbert was on the bench, and forced LBJ to play the four against Smith. This would have helped Granger's scoring. Smith's presence would have helped the Pacers in nearly every facet simply because he would have been filling a need for the Pacers.

Had Smith replaced Granger in this ridiculous scenario, the results would have been identical to this years past postseason. Smith, like Granger would have just gotten beat like a rented mule by LeBron, and West would have once again gotten beat by Battier. No difference.

Heisenberg
10-16-2012, 02:47 AM
When we talk about beating Miami it really, really, REALLY needs to be mentioned that Bosh went down in Game 1. I don't care if we were up 6 at half. It screwed Miami's offensive sets to high heaven, it took them a couple games to adjust, and we all know the rest. People need to stop looking at Bosh going down like it was us losing Hansbrough or something.

I'll give us a puncher's chance against anyone, but Bosh getting hurt is the reason it even went 6.

BRushWithDeath
10-16-2012, 06:49 AM
Had Smith played instead of West, in an entirely unpossible hypothetical scenario, the Pacers could have dominated the boards, protected the rim even when Hibbert was on the bench, and forced LBJ to play the four against Smith. This would have helped Granger's scoring. Smith's presence would have helped the Pacers in nearly every facet simply because he would have been filling a need for the Pacers.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8iSD9lPVY6Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

Kstat
10-16-2012, 07:03 AM
I wouldn't mind us gong after him next summer, though ideally I think we could use a better outside shooter to replace tayshaun next summer.

Defensively, though....Smoove and Drummond? Dare to dream...

Hoop
10-16-2012, 08:24 AM
Josh Smith would drive most people on here crazy with that god awful ugly outside shot that he loves to put up with way to much regularity, and yes he shoots it much worse outside than Danny.

mattie
10-16-2012, 03:26 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8iSD9lPVY6Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

I'm quite aware that unpossible isn't a word. I use it frequently. Much like someone using "impossibru" I use it for effect.

Mackey_Rose
11-28-2012, 03:03 PM
Until he proves me wrong this season, I'd rather spend a more modest amount to keep David West, than spend an exorbitant amount to bring in Josh Smith.

Smith is the better player, he's younger, he's more athletic, and he'd probably be a better fit next to Hibbert, but I don't think his personality meshes with what they are trying to do. I also don't see it as a move that would put us into a tier, with the true contenders in the league, and thus not worth the investment.

David West may be proving me wrong. Josh Smith might not be the better player after all. West is getting better and better every game. I really hope this organization is willing to do what it takes to keep this guy. He is tougher than anybody we've had here since Peck's boy Double D.

Speed
11-28-2012, 03:21 PM
I wish he was 6 years younger, one of my favorite Pacers in a long time.

docpaul
11-28-2012, 03:23 PM
David West may be proving me wrong. Josh Smith might not be the better player after all. West is getting better and better every game. I really hope this organization is willing to do what it takes to keep this guy. He is tougher than anybody we've had here since Peck's boy Double D.

I agree. He's awesome. You can't put a price on mental fortitude and double-team busting strength in the post.

Just have to make the right assessment as to how much gas he has left in the tank given his age.

If we could get him into a higher salary shorter term contract, that'd be ideal. Another contract of the same size and length?

Given that it's his last big contract, he probably won't accept that.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:23 PM
5 years and 50 mil make it happen Walsh.........

Mackey_Rose
11-28-2012, 03:35 PM
5 years and 50 mil make it happen Walsh.........

The way he is playing now, he's a steal at $10 million per year. Unfortunately, he's already 32 years old, and he should be looking for more annual money, this summer. How much more, is the question.

Kstat
11-28-2012, 03:37 PM
I could see the pistons taking a stab at west if the market dries up for him elsewhere. They need a veteran big.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:39 PM
The way he is playing now, he's a steal at $10 million per year. Unfortunately, he's already 32 years old, and he should be looking for more annual money, this summer. How much more, is the question.

I wouldn't mind a younger West(I was a fan of younger West) but at 32 I hope they don't re-sign him, I hope somebody else offers him some crazy money and gets stuck with that contract ala Elton Brand/Boozer, I don't think is he is worth as much as you think.

Mackey_Rose
11-28-2012, 03:39 PM
Hopefully he's at the top of our wishlist next summer. We can outspend anyone besides Atlanta.

West and Monroe, with Drummond, would be an absolute nightmare.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 03:40 PM
Hopefully he's at the top of our wishlist next summer. We can outspend anyone besides Atlanta.

Let's hope so :pray:

Kstat
11-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Well, I think if they can't get Cody Zeller, they'll look hard at options in free agency for a third quality big, like boozer, smith or Millsapp.

West would be a longshot, but a possibility if things don't work out for both parties elsewhere.

Justin Tyme
11-28-2012, 04:25 PM
5 years and 50 mil make it happen Walsh.........


Sometimes I can agree with you and other times your statements just baffle me. Stop and think how old DWest will be the latter part of that 5 year contract. What's his health going to be? Just remember you were willing to sell the farm for Nene, and how did that work out for Denver? How's it working out for Washington? I'm not looking for WALSH to add anymore albatross contracts to the Pacers. Dunleavy and Murphy was more than I could stand for 4 years. I don'ty like Mahinmi or Green's guaranteed contracts. A 3 year deal is the most Walsh should even consider offering DWest. Bird got Dwest to sign for 2 years, but then Bird seems to have been a better negoiator than Walsh. Bird didn't make it a habit to get stupid overpaying to keep players.

How's EJ doing for the Hornets too? This isn't monopoly money. It's real money that can only go so far, and needs to be spent prudently and not foolishly.

Who is that player the Pacers need to make them a true competitor and how do you get that player w/o gutting the team or putting them in salarly hell? I truly don't know. It would make for an interseting thread, so someone should start a thread to discuss this very thing!

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
Sometimes I can agree with you and other times your statements just baffle me. Stop and think how old DWest will be the latter part of that 5 year contract. What's his health going to be? Just remember you were willing to sell the farm for Nene, and how did that work out for Denver? How's it working out for Washington? I'm not looking for WALSH to add anymore albatross contracts to the Pacers. Dunleavy and Murphy was more than I could stand for 4 years. I don'ty like Mahinmi or Green's guaranteed contracts. A 3 year deal is the most Walsh should even consider offering DWest. Bird got Dwest to sign for 2 years, but then Bird seems to have been a better negoiator than Walsh. Bird didn't make it a habit to get stupid overpaying to keep players.

How's EJ doing for the Hornets too? This isn't monopoly money. It's real money that can only go so far, and needs to be spent prudently and not foolishly.

Who is that player the Pacers need to make them a true competitor and how do you get that player w/o gutting the team or putting them in salarly hell? I truly don't know. It would make for an interseting thread, so someone should start a thread to discuss this very thing!

I was been sarcastic ;) I don't want West back even for two or three years, there is not point in doing that.

Cousy47
11-28-2012, 06:09 PM
If David continues to perform at the level he is now, I think we'll all be susprised at the money he'll be offered next year. The deciding factor may be the same as what brought him here in the first place. If the team continues to improves so he can play with a winner, and his family enjoys Indpls, he may give us a discount. If not, then money will probably be the deciding factor for him. 3 years, 35/40 million? Could we do it?

Dece
11-28-2012, 06:14 PM
A good management team would trade West by the all star break.

Speed
11-28-2012, 06:56 PM
The thing that messes me up when thinking about how much and how long that you should think about signing West for is this... Almost nothing he does is predicated on athleticism that you lose as you get into your mid 30s. It not speed or leaping ability. He'll actually get stronger, I think he already is much bigger stronger than a 26 year old version of himself. Then you have to price in injuries, but beside the knee, he doesn't miss games, at least not here. So, normally I'd be hesitant to want to do a longer term deal, but honestly I can almost talk myself into it. His toughness just epitomizes how this team is now. Its not just him, its George Hill and Danny, but this team would get punked routinely in its previous incarnations without him. Its not that way anymore. I think worse case he loses a step defensively and then you can work on getting your 'next' power foward and still give minutes to West at the center spot as he get slower, but again, probably stronger/bigger.

So ya, either way you fall on this one, I think you could turn out wrong.

Seth is right he is a B A M F, that goes a long way with me.

rexnom
11-28-2012, 06:57 PM
I was high on trading West as well. Now less so. There's value to be had but he provides several traits I think we lack that won't change with age--he's smart, he's tough, and he's a leader. Josh Smith provides none of these things. Not sure he would be a good alternative. Especially the smarts--not a lot of high bball IQ players in Indy. At points last night, he was literally directing the offense. He's a different type of "tough" guy.

Sparhawk
11-28-2012, 09:02 PM
A good management team would trade West by the all star break.

I agree on that sentiment.

vnzla81
11-28-2012, 09:37 PM
The thing that messes me up when thinking about how much and how long that you should think about signing West for is this... Almost nothing he does is predicated on athleticism that you lose as you get into your mid 30s. It not speed or leaping ability. He'll actually get stronger, I think he already is much bigger stronger than a 26 year old version of himself. Then you have to price in injuries, but beside the knee, he doesn't miss games, at least not here. So, normally I'd be hesitant to want to do a longer term deal, but honestly I can almost talk myself into it. His toughness just epitomizes how this team is now. Its not just him, its George Hill and Danny, but this team would get punked routinely in its previous incarnations without him. Its not that way anymore. I think worse case he loses a step defensively and then you can work on getting your 'next' power foward and still give minutes to West at the center spot as he get slower, but again, probably stronger/bigger.

So ya, either way you fall on this one, I think you could turn out wrong.

Seth is right he is a B A M F, that goes a long way with me.

Well he has to play D on the other side, the older he gets the worse he is going to be, championship teams need players that can play in both side at a high level, now if the goal is not to go for a championship then by all means lets use all the cap space next year on him.

CJ Jones
11-28-2012, 11:05 PM
Josh Smith is the perfect player to put next to Roy. Mattie and Vnzla have this one right.