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View Full Version : Odd thoughts from the Wolves....



Peck
11-26-2004, 02:54 AM
I'm going everywhere with this one people so be patient with me.

Pb777, ok Diamond Dave & myself were having a debate. You mixed "in the air tonight" (at least that's what I think the name of it is) by Genesis with something else. What other song was in that mix? The diamond one says you actually used the song itself as background as the drum roll in it was the same, but I think you put something else in there. If it's not a trade seceret I'd like to know what the heck it was. BTW, you got compliments on the call in show after the game. The ladies seem to love ya. :)

The fans. I'm amazed game after game. We have awoken from a 5 year sleep. Not since the finals have I seen the home town take to the team in such a way. There was one point in time in the first half that Min. made a run & the fans just gave energy to the team & to their credit they responded. I know we can't make the shots for them or steal the ball but I do think that the energy helps the guys on the floor.

This brings me to theory # 1.

Why do I enjoy watching this team more than I did the previous team. **U.B. you might want to skip this part.***
No, it's not because Ron Artest isn't on the floor. But it might have something to do with that & believe it or not J.O. A caller to Kevin Lee put into words what I was feeling. Even though we love J.O. & Ron (some of you anyway) & even Jackson the offense when they are on the floor is boring. It's the old inside out kick it to J.O. or Ron & let them run post moves till they either can't or they deny the entry. Then & only then does the ball move. With the team we have now we have no post up player. Harrison is about it but he is inconsistant (what you would expect from a rookie) Thus what we have right now is a team of slashers, shooters & passers. We have ball movement on the offensive end of the floor. I just find that more entertaining to watch. Now I will be the first to admit that the post up game is more important & eventually this will catch up with us, but for now I'm enjoying the heck out of this type of play. This is probably why I enjoy Cro on the floor more when J.O. is in there. Because there is more ball movement with him out there as he is another scoring option. I look forward to J.O.'s return but I hope that Carlisle keeps some of the ball flow going for the rest of the year.

Theory # 2.

I beleive I now have Donnie Walsh's opinion of the entire suspension. Again this goes to Kevin Lee the post game call in host. Just FYI I asked him a few years ago who his employer was while I was on the air. His answer is that he works for the Indiana Pacers. I guess he is subcontracted to WIBC, but it's safe to assume he is part of the P.R. department. Now the reason I said that was this. A caller asked him what he thought would happen with the appeals. I'm just paraphrasing here but this is the gist of what he said. He stated that he wasn't sure of what the process was but that he didn't feel that Artest suspension would be reduced & then he said the part that I knew was coming from Walsh. He then said that the suspension should not be reduced. That Ron has had previous problems & that this was a long time in coming. He also didn't think Jacksons would be reduced & didn't think it should be. He did think J.O. would get a reduction & that he could make a case for having his lowered. That's what he said. It's my opinion that Walsh shares this same thought & that Lee was just broadcasting what D.W. wants out. I could be totally wrong about this btw.

Theory # 3.

Austin Croshere must not be benched. I don't care if J.O. & Foster both come back at 100% tonight vs. the Bobcats. Austin has more than earned his starting spot. I'm going to go back tonight over my tivoed version of the game & try & count the % of time that Cro was on K.G. & I'm telling you it was close to 50% of the time he was on the floor. K.G. never burned him. In fact if I told you that one player had 25 points & 11 rebounds & the other had 23 points & 9 rebounds you probably suspect that J.O. was back & if not you would assume that the 25 & 11 person would have been the big ticket. You would have been wrong. Kids, it pays to practice your freethrows. 10-11 from the line helps you stay in the game at the end. This guy is so clutch I can't even find a better word to describe it. It's not just the F.T. shooting either. Did you see that rebound he got at the end you know the one that Wally fouled him on but they gave him a jump ball? Did you see how many people Austin went up & over & through to get that? I've said it for years now. If there is a tough rebound to get at the end of the game I will take Croshere over anybody on our team (other than J.O. & really sometimes it close between them). He just has that knack that Reggie has, that Dale had, that Travis sometime had. The bigger the moment the tighter the game the better he plays. You can't teach that.

Theory # 4.

I didn't feel confident we would win the game until sometime in the third quarter I saw JOneal7 turn his hat from the sideways crook to the reverse angle. I knew then that all was well in the world.

Theory # 5.

Jamaal Tinsley is the best point guard in the N.B.A. Try & deny it.

Theory # 6.

I know this is corny as hell but for some reason I am connected with this team. I've liked the team over the past few season, but for some reason this one resonates with me. Maybe I'm more of a traditionalist than I ever dreamed. God I'm getting old. But this no star peddle to the metal mentality is something that I am buying hook line & sinker. I would like to thank the fans of Detroit, they have provided us with the most inspired basketball we've seen in almost 10 years.

I'm curious as to how the injured vets. will fit in with this group when they all come back. Reggie will adapt & in reality it will be good for him. This will be his team until J.O. comes back aboard & I think he will thrive in the break neck pace we are running.

Look in all likelyhood reality will come crashing back down on us during this road trip, but as long as they display the same effort night in & night out they will have a fan in me for life.

P.S. could somebody please remind me again why we kept John Edwards & didn't sign Randy Holcomb at the begining of the season? This guy is such a dud that he cannot even get off of the bench when we are short handed & two players who signed that day played when he didn't. Will there ever come a time when Walsh doesn't have to have a 7' center who can't play but has potential because he is tall?

Suaveness
11-26-2004, 03:08 AM
Peck, you truly do write your best at 3 in the morning. Great post. Comments:

1. I agree with you that this team is a lot of fun to watch. It kinda reminds of me of our 90s years with our team being primarily offensive. That was always fun to watch, and I see a little of that in these guys. Put in the underdog factor and that it is us against the league, and that just makes for an exciting team. Winning doesn't hurt either.

2. That is a very interesting theory, and we will see what happens. Here's to having all of our players back ASAP.

3. I am still torn on this. I don't know what to think, I love Croshere so much, but I honestly don't know. I can't answer this right now.

5. With you 100%. Jamaal is just an amazing playmaker, and his vision of the court is unsurpassed by none in the league. This kid is incredible, and he makes this offense tick. Bird was right, he just may be an allstar. And if not, he should. Without question.

6. This ties in with 1, but because this so much like our late 90s team, it is so much fun to watch. People share the ball with no star, and it is so much fun to watch the offense like that.

Millerartest
11-26-2004, 03:44 AM
I agree whole heartedly that this Pacer team is the most fun that I have seen in years.

With Tinsely running the point, there is no reason why they should stop running when JO comes back. Tinsley still worries me with some of the decisions that he makes, and with his shooting, but overall he has really impressed me with his game. He is made to run point on a team that pushes the ball.

Croshere is finally getting the respect that he has deserved. I knew that there was no possible way that he would miss any of the free throws the end, just like I thought that Tinsley probably wouldn't be able to make both of his. Not to ride Tinsley, but it just goes to show how rare it is to have a player who can always drain 'em like Cro. And that rebound. Peck is right on the rebounding. Incredible.

I think what this shows is telling of the entire NBA. Why does it happen on teams that certain players are the ones to take the shots? Why do Artest and Oneal always take 30+ shots combined, while others are supposed to defer? What really separates a 20ppg scorer in the NBA, and bench players like the Jones tandem that rarely get the chance? I hate to say it, but I think somewhere along the line, people are given the entitlement, and that ego gets way too much in the way.

A writer I think on Yahoo made a comparison with this team and Argentina. I just don't understand why the NBA doesn't get back to team basketball instead of isolations and clear outs, as has proven to be more effective internationally. Imagine, for instance, if the Pacers played the same style of game, only it's Oneal dunking the ball in the paint instead of having it drop off Pollard's feet. Team basketball really works when it's played with immense energy as this team has shown. The style is fun, the style works, and it really opens up the long range game which is going to explode when Reggie comes back. Watch out Seattle.

Winning is the not the most important thing to me. Having fun, rooting for players with heart, and cheering for a team that has a chance to win is more than I can ask for.

Bball
11-26-2004, 04:06 AM
No comments about James Jones tonight and in particular whether he or Bender should be getting regular minutes when (IF?) Bender is ever back?

Count me amongst those who like the cutting, screening, and motion along with the energy and hustle this team is showing so far.

-Bball

pb777
11-26-2004, 04:23 AM
I'm going everywhere with this one people so be patient with me.

Pb777, ok Diamond Dave & myself were having a debate. You mixed "in the air tonight" (at least that's what I think the name of it is) by Genesis with something else. What other song was in that mix? The diamond one says you actually used the song itself as background as the drum roll in it was the same, but I think you put something else in there. If it's not a trade seceret I'd like to know what the heck it was.Snoop - "Drop It Like It's Hot" beat mixed with Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight"

That **** was crazy, I'm glad that you caught it

JOneal7
11-26-2004, 04:29 AM
lmao@the comment about my hat...I usually am tensed up and don't want people to see my eyes to well..that's why I do it...But i finally relaxed and really thought we had this one. BTW you tivoed it? TNT? Can you look for me on the final 30 seconds or so? someone on here said they saw me...if u could find a way 2 get a screen shot of it up here i'd be much appreciative..if not it's strait...

JOneal7
11-26-2004, 04:31 AM
btw PB i sit right in front of you...good job tonight man...you gone shout me out sometime? ROFL...T1 The MC ;)
lmao

pb777
11-26-2004, 04:35 AM
btw PB i sit right in front of you...good job tonight man...you gone shout me out sometime? ROFL...T1 The MC ;)
lmao
wtf does ROFL mean?

You had a JO all star on? I saw you i think.

T1 the mic????

Been in the club. tins came out, was a good night..!

JOneal7
11-26-2004, 05:23 AM
ROFL=Rollin on tha floor laughing...yea I had on the JO all star...naw T1 the M-C..Emcee ;)
lol
gimme a shout out sometime...

Bball
11-26-2004, 05:39 AM
wtf does ROFL mean?

You had a JO all star on? I saw you i think.

T1 the mic????

Been in the club. tins came out, was a good night..!

Whew... I thought maybe I was the only one that needed a translator sometimes for JO7! ;)

....I knew what ROFL means but T1 the MC still has got me! I can get the MC but not following the T1. :confused:

-Bball

JOneal7
11-26-2004, 05:56 AM
T1=My rap name...theres a meaning behind it ...but it's really 2 early over here to explain it..lol , and naw it don't have anything 2 do with an internet connection.

Peck
11-26-2004, 05:57 AM
Snoop - "Drop It Like It's Hot" beat mixed with Phil Collins "In The Air Tonight"

That **** was crazy, I'm glad that you caught it

Good to know my ears weren't fooling me.

BTW, I was dissapointed you didn't sing along with "We will Rock you". Nothing makes me more happy (well other than a Pacers W) than to hear you do the Ric Flair Wooooooooooooooo! during that song.

BTW, was that you that played Vinella Ice at the half?

Peck
11-26-2004, 06:01 AM
No comments about James Jones tonight and in particular whether he or Bender should be getting regular minutes when (IF?) Bender is ever back?

Count me amongst those who like the cutting, screening, and motion along with the energy and hustle this team is showing so far.

-Bball

I'm still on the James Jones train. Even though he didn't dominate he still played his third straight game without an injury. So right there puts him ahead in my book.

On that note, while I don't want to criticize a guy when it's hard to know how much pain he is in. How inspiring is it to watch Pollard litteraly limp up & down the floor wincing in pain the entire time & yet fight push & claw every min. he's on the floor. Is Bender really in more pain that Pollard? It's not for me to say, but I just find Scot inspiring at this point.

Also back on topic. Again I thought James played great defense. He split time between Wally & Spree & I thought he did excellant on each.

JOneal7
11-26-2004, 06:15 AM
James jones hit some big shots tonight I thought!
He came up big...but tinsley is really impressing me now more than ever...

Bball
11-26-2004, 06:21 AM
I'm still on the James Jones train. Even though he didn't dominate he still played his third straight game without an injury. So right there puts him ahead in my book.

On that note, while I don't want to criticize a guy when it's hard to know how much pain he is in. How inspiring is it to watch Pollard litteraly limp up & down the floor wincing in pain the entire time & yet fight push & claw every min. he's on the floor. Is Bender really in more pain that Pollard? It's not for me to say, but I just find Scot inspiring at this point.

Also back on topic. Again I thought James played great defense. He split time between Wally & Spree & I thought he did excellant on each.

I've been impressed with Pollard myself and believe me, I was ready to put him in any trade that was ever possible this summer including trading him for a beer and a bucket of popcorn. This is not the same Pollard we saw last year.

James Jones seems to me, so far, to be playing Bender right on down the bench. I have no idea what the extent of Bender's injury might be. I have no idea whether other players could or would play thru similar. What I do know is James Jones is a player who is showing up, able to play, playing with confidence, and seemingly 'getting it'.

I'm already on record as saying I think we are seeing the final chapter in Bender's career. Last year they started using words like 'chronic' in describing his problem. This year we are hearing it stems from HS.
Bender brings nearly 'zero' in the intangibles department and with the Pistons setting the bar for a championship last year I just don't see Bender able to withstand the physical nature of the game or maintain the defensive pressure we need. And I question his ability to ever be fundamentally sound on the court.

In any case, we are getting MORE from JJones than I think we could ever hope for from Bender even if he could stay healthy.

-Bball

Grant
11-26-2004, 08:32 AM
Theory # 5.

Jamaal Tinsley is the best point guard in the N.B.A. Try & deny it.





Tins has been impressive. To his credit, he has always been a pass first/shoot second PG, but it looks like he knows he has to help with the scoring and you get a sense that this is his team right now, and that he has put them on his back. If he had played the Orlando game, they might very well be 3-0 since losing Ron/Steph/Maine

ABADays
11-26-2004, 09:43 AM
I don't think I've got much to add. Yes, Austin should be on the floor. Most everyone should be grinning a little sheepishly about Pollard. The guy brings what he's got all the time. Keep screaming Scot. Tins has become big league. JJ and FJ are going to be awesome off the bench - what an asset. Bender's career with the P's is over. Aside from the word chronic I think the word journeyman is going to apply to him - although a rich one.

Seems to me we are playing a game out there the other teams don't recognize. I'm lovin' it.

Unclebuck
11-26-2004, 10:10 AM
1) I can agree that maybe this "offense" is more exciting to watch. But it won't be as effective as the old offense. I'll take effective over exciting anytime.

2) Peck, I agree and as I suggested a few days ago I think the Pacers and the NBA{A should right now go to David Stern and make the case that we will drop all appeals, thus making his life easier, we will drop all appeals if he agrees to reduce J.O's suspension 15 games. I don't see why Stern would not go for that.

3) Croshere has played well, but he is phyaically about at the end of his rope. He will be gratefull to have his minutes cut back to about 28 or so. He physcially cannot keep this up.

Tinsley has been amazing , fun to watch him with a green light.

Something is starting to bother me though as the games progress and the fans fall in love with this team. Perhaps I am reading too much into things, but it seems to me that many fans are making the suggestion that this team is playing harder than the old team. Maybe they are playing tgoether better, or making they are playing as hard as they possibly

Ragnar
11-26-2004, 10:38 AM
I am officially in the I am glad Pollard is a Pacer camp. For those of you who were not on the board last year that is like UB demanding we trade Ron.

sixthman
11-26-2004, 10:41 AM
P.S. could somebody please remind me again why we kept John Edwards & didn't sign Randy Holcomb at the begining of the season? This guy is such a dud that he cannot even get off of the bench when we are short handed & two players who signed that day played when he didn't. Will there ever come a time when Walsh doesn't have to have a 7' center who can't play but has potential because he is tall?

Darn, you ruined a positively great post with this comment.

The NBA is about developing talent cheaply. The Pacers 2 mil investment, or so, in Primoz Brezec would have obviously paid dividends had the need to fill an expansion team roster not intruded.

If you'll remember, Edwards was kept because both Pollard and the big rookie Harrioson were ailing at the start of the season. Then Foster went down. We needed depth at center and not at forward.

At forward we thought Jon Bender was coming back and with Cro and Bender, along with Foster, Harrison and Pollard, we were loaded with guys who could fill in at forward, if JO missed some games.

Randy Holcomb was the better player now but it was felt he had little upside.

Now regarding John Edwards. Think Primoz Brezec. The Pacers apparently believe Edwards can become an NBA center. That makes him more vluable than Randy Holcomb who will never be anything more than a marginal forward.

shockedandchagrined
11-26-2004, 11:37 AM
John Edwards equals big practice body. The Pacers are still in need of that right now. Speaking of Edwards, does anyone know what kind of contract he signed? Is he just getting repetitive 10-day contracts, or did he sign something longer.

As for this being Miller's team when he returns, I don't think so. This is Tinsley's opportunity. Hopefully, this is going to become his team. This is the type of agressiveness he needs to play with even when O'neal and Jackson finally return.

Croshere's rebirth has really been something to behold. I've always thought he could still be a contributor, despite never being worth his salary. However, I never thought he earned more minutes than he was given over the past few years. It seems pretty obvious now that he benefits from a team makeup in which the ball moves, instead of getting stuck in the low post all the time.

James Jones is unflappable. The guy's out there playing like ho-hum, just another day at the office. I've done this a thousand times.

I think what is so appealing to everyone about the team right now is that to a man, everyone just knows how to play basketball. They're basically all 4-year college guys (I know Harrison only stayed 3, but...) who have never relied soley on any physical talent, but understand how to play the game.

Also, does anyone get the feeling that teams don't want to play the Pacers right now? Orlando, Boston and Minnesota all displayed a strange body language, like they have nothing to gain by beating this squad. I'm not meaning to take anything away from the Pacers because they've been outstanding, but it's been strange watching the opposition.

Hicks
11-26-2004, 12:17 PM
Also, does anyone get the feeling that teams don't want to play the Pacers right now? Orlando, Boston and Minnesota all displayed a strange body language, like they have nothing to gain by beating this squad. I'm not meaning to take anything away from the Pacers because they've been outstanding, but it's been strange watching the opposition.
A little bit. One theory I have is we're used to seeing everyone be pumped up to give their best effort vs us because we're a contender, and now that we're not (right now), they're giving us their average game?

Roy Munson
11-26-2004, 01:04 PM
Something is starting to bother me though as the games progress and the fans fall in love with this team. Perhaps I am reading too much into things, but it seems to me that many fans are making the suggestion that this team is playing harder than the old team. Maybe they are playing tgoether better, or making they are playing as hard as they possibly

While it's debatable as to whether they are playing harder, I think it is obvious that they are playing SMARTER.

For all his good attributes, Ron Artest is not a smart basketball player. He takes too much on himself, he takes too many bad shots, he fails to involve his teammates at times. Sometimes it looks like he thinks that the only way the Pacers are going to win a game is for him to do it himself. It looks like he doesn't trust his teammates to get it done.

Cactus Jax
11-26-2004, 01:06 PM
I'd say right now Tinsley is the best PURE PG in the east. Nash is probably the best pure PG in the NBA, and Wade is the best PG overall in the east, along with Francis, and Marbury so there's pretty much no way he's going to be an all-star.