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View Full Version : Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"



daschysta
10-02-2012, 12:35 AM
Looks like Paul is shooting for the All-Star team this year, and is going to look to be much more aggressive!


http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/paul-george-aiming-be-all-star

Hicks
10-02-2012, 12:50 AM
Before anyone knocks him for that JO-ish quote, read what he said immediately afterward. Team more important.

Psyren
10-02-2012, 01:18 AM
If he wants to be an All-Star, I sure hope he REALLY improved those handles...

Goodness they were brutal to watch.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
10-02-2012, 01:45 AM
He could make the team, along with Roy, but only if he DRASTICALLY improves his ball handling and his scoring average.

oz_pacer
10-02-2012, 02:32 AM
He could make the team, along with Roy, but only if he DRASTICALLY improves his ball handling and his scoring average.
Thanks scoop

Mad-Mad-Mario
10-02-2012, 02:41 AM
I think I speak for Pacer Nation when I say, We want you to be an all-star too".

As long as its not to the detriment of the team. Which he seems to understand. Its a great thing he is setting his goals so high, since his ceiling is so high. He can't rest on his laurels.

Ace E.Anderson
10-02-2012, 08:22 AM
A lot of people are expecting me to really get out of the shadows of Danny Granger or Roy Hibbert or whatever. I'm ready for the task.

This quote is what got me excited. It almost seems like he wants to become the best player on the team so to speak. Whether he's able to back it up is the important part. But hey, gotta start somewhere. I like the attitude/confidence.

Unclebuck
10-02-2012, 09:41 AM
I thought this was the most interesting part of the article.

Note: The contents of this page have not been reviewed or endorsed by the Indiana Pacers. All opinions expressed by Mark Montieth are solely his own and do not reflect the opinions of the Indiana Pacers, their partners, or sponsors.


I never remember that disclaimer at the end of Brunner's articles

Hicks
10-02-2012, 10:50 AM
To go along with that article, here is Wells' article in today's paper:

Pacer guard Paul George: 'I feel like there's a lot riding on me'

http://www.indystar.com/article/20121001/SPORTS04/210020310/Pacer-guard-Paul-George-feel-like-there-s-lot-riding-me-?nclick_check=1



The message Indiana Pacers associate head coach Brian Shaw delivered to guard Paul George was brief, but to the point.

After George had finished one of his summer workouts at a Southern California gym, Shaw sat the third-year guard down and left him with something profound to ponder.

"I told him that the fact that everybody in the starting lineup is basically already who they are with the exception of him," Shaw recalled saying. "Whatever steps he makes are going to be the same steps the team will take."

Talk about pressure.

George looked like he was ready for that responsibility last season when he played at times like the team's best all-around player. But then there were occasions when he was the fifth best Pacer on the court.

That's in the past, according to George. Shaw's conversation is implanted in George's brain and he said he is ready to carry that load on his shoulders.

"I feel like there's a lot riding on me," George said on the eve of training camp opening today. "I like the pressure. I like to be in the situation I'm in. I worked hard the whole summer to get better at my game. I'm the 'X' factor."

The Pacers hope to see more performances like the one George had against Dallas last season (30 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists and 5 steals) than the timid play they got from him at times during the 2012 playoffs.

"The sky is the limit," Pacers forward Danny Granger said. "He's so gifted. He can go as far as he wants to go. He has the ability to do so many things on the court, especially on the offensive end. What he brings to us is really invaluable."

George sat in his agent's office in California and watched the team's series against Miami, which they lost 4-2, "seven or eight times" breaking down the mistakes he made while defending Heat All-Star guard Dwyane Wade in pick-and-rolls. George also struggled offensively, shooting 37 percent from the field.

George put the tape away and committed himself to the gym.

He hit the weight room so that he could get stronger, which in turn should help his low post offensive game.

He worked on his ball handling, which was atrocious at times last season.

He worked on his inconsistent jump shot.

And he stayed in constant communication with Shaw throughout the off-season, picking the brain of the person who played with and coached Kobe Bryant, one of George's idols growing up.

"He (George) is 22, so you can't rush experience," Shaw said. "There are expectations for him and he wants to live up to those."

George averaged 12.1 points and 5.6 rebounds a game last season.

No amount of time doing individual work inside an empty gym could top the knowledge he obtained in early July in Las Vegas and while on a trip to the Far East with some of the world's best players.

George played against players like Bryant, James Harden and Kevin Durant on a daily basis as part of the Team USA select squad that practiced against the Olympic team prior to heading to London.

George watched how the players on the gold-medal winning team worked out every day, what they ate and how they approached the game.

He was also able to talk frequently to LeBron James when they went to China as part of a Nike promotional tour.

"The USA thing helped a lot," George said. "You're playing against some of the best players in our league. They brought it to us every game and every practice was tough."

George carried the confidence he gained during the offseason to the team's workouts leading up to the start of training camp, which opens with two practices today.

He set the tone during their scrimmages by getting after it defensively. He and newcomer Gerald Green went back and forth at each other on a regular basis making the games even more competitive.

"We're very pleased with his development," Pacers coach Frank Vogel said. "Clearly to go from a rookie to what he was able to do last year was a huge step. We think he's ready to take another huge step on both ends of the ball."

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 11:44 AM
I'm excited.

mattie
10-02-2012, 11:52 AM
Could the Pacers have three All-Stars this year? Roy is most likely going to be back, many folks last year wanted Granger to be there only his early season slump really kept him out. Charles Barkley specifically said that was his position to lose... Which leads us to Paul George. If he scores anything over 16ppg I expect that to give him an All-Star appearence, because I have no doubt he is going to wreak havoc defensively this season..

naptownmenace
10-02-2012, 11:53 AM
I just want Paul George to improve and play consistently. I'd be happy is he only increased his average to 14 points a game as long as he didn't have nights where he just dissapeared offensively and failed to score in double-figures. Of course, I think he's better than that and for the Pacers to have a chance to challange the Heat and stay ahead of the Knicks, Sixers, and Bulls, they'll need him to take the next step.

My guess is he'll average 16 points per game, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 steals. He'll help the Pacers win a bunch of games but miss the All-Star game.

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 11:55 AM
If Paul George averages those stats on good shooting %'s we are going to be very good.

avoidingtheclowns
10-02-2012, 12:07 PM
"I feel like there's a lot riding on me...I like the pressure."

But does he make love to pressure?

BillS
10-02-2012, 12:09 PM
Roy being back as an All-Star depends on who the voters consider a center. It is almost impossible for a Pacer to be voted in, so with Howard in the West if Bynum is hyped and voted in then Roy is probably the coaches' choice. If someone else is voted in, then Bynum will be big compatition as the coaches' choice.

Hicks
10-02-2012, 12:15 PM
Could the Pacers have three All-Stars this year? Roy is most likely going to be back, many folks last year wanted Granger to be there only his early season slump really kept him out. Charles Barkley specifically said that was his position to lose... Which leads us to Paul George. If he scores anything over 16ppg I expect that to give him an All-Star appearence, because I have no doubt he is going to wreak havoc defensively this season..

My guess is we'll have 1 or 2, and if so it will be Roy and/or Paul.

Hicks
10-02-2012, 12:19 PM
Roy being back as an All-Star depends on who the voters consider a center. It is almost impossible for a Pacer to be voted in, so with Howard in the West if Bynum is hyped and voted in then Roy is probably the coaches' choice. If someone else is voted in, then Bynum will be big compatition as the coaches' choice.

Last year the centers were Howard and Roy. You'd think just swap Howard with Bynum, but they're starting Bosh at center this year and he's even publicly said already he should be on the AS ballot as a center.

If that happens, Bosh will likely get the fan vote at the 5, which means it could come down to Roy vs. Bynum for the only other C on the roster. BUT I think the last couple of spots on the roster can be wild cards, Iguodala is out west now, and it's not a lock the others from the 2012 roster make it back, either. Of course, new talent could also rise (including Paul George, maybe).

ilive4sports
10-02-2012, 12:59 PM
For all this talk on here, people worried that PG is all about "swag" and is "too immature" maybe you should actually listen to him. The kid gets it. And he's gonna be special for us.

I'm also really happy that we have Brian Shaw here. I think he is invaluable to both PG and Lance. Any time in practice he can just bring up the Kobe card. You want to take a break? Do you think Kobe is taking a break right now?

Damn I'm excited for this season!

vnzla81
10-02-2012, 01:07 PM
Roy being back as an All-Star depends on who the voters consider a center. It is almost impossible for a Pacer to be voted in, so with Howard in the West if Bynum is hyped and voted in then Roy is probably the coaches' choice. If someone else is voted in, then Bynum will be big compatition as the coaches' choice.

Roy is gonna have to compete against Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Horford, Tyson Chandler, Varejao and Nene, out of those players you can count Bynum, Chandler and Noah as Roy's biggest competition with Nene, Horford, Lopez, Varejao and KG from the outside looking in depending of their teams records and how healthy they are.

daschysta
10-02-2012, 01:15 PM
Roy is gonna have to compete against Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Horford, Tyson Chandler, Varejao and Nene, out of those players you can count Bynum, Chandler and Noah as Roy's biggest competition with Nene, Horford, Lopez, Varejao and KG from the outside looking in depending of their teams records and how healthy they are.

Our All-Stars depend on a few factors, the biggest being team performance. If we're a top 4 team at least 1 all-star is guaranteed pretty much, likely Roy, since he's seen as our biggest difference maker, and competition is weaker, it's unlikely that other than Bynum, and perhaps bosh, any center is going to significantly outperform Roy, and if two players are comparable, and one is on a better team, the guy on the better team typically will get the nod.

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 01:17 PM
Are we to assume Roy won't improve at all this year, but Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Chandler, Horford, Nene (lol), Varejao (lol), all will? Probably.

vnzla81
10-02-2012, 01:23 PM
Are we to assume Roy won't improve at all this year, but Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Chandler, Horford, Nene (lol), Varejao (lol), all will? Probably.

I didn't say that Roy wasn't going to improve, all I'm saying is that him been name to another all star is not as easy as many think here, lets remember that his numbers are not that great to begging with.

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 01:31 PM
I didn't say that Roy wasn't going to improve, all I'm saying is that him been name to another all star is not as easy as many think here, lets remember that his numbers are not that great to begging with.

13 and 9 basically with 2 blocks isn't shabby either. His defense is way underrated on this board for some bizarre reason. I agree it's not a walk in the park for Roy to get back, but I also think he's the favorite for one of the 2 spots at the moment.

BillS
10-02-2012, 01:35 PM
Are we to assume Roy won't improve at all this year, but Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Chandler, Horford, Nene (lol), Varejao (lol), all will? Probably.

Not to agree with vnzla :devil:, but in my case I am more concerned about who gets the "never mind how good he is" public vote (forgot about Chandler. I think Noah is off the radar with DRose out, I am not worried about Horford being a fan favorite though Nene might have place going for him) leaving someone actually comparable to Roy in the mix for the coaches' pick.

If it was at all possible for Roy to get to be a fan favorite we'd have a little more fair jockeying for position, but that wouldn't happen even if our national broadcast games came before the first of the year.

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Just out of curiosity what makes it impossible for Roy to maybe win the fan vote? He has been in the national news this summer.

Since86
10-02-2012, 01:38 PM
13 and 9 basically with 2 blocks isn't shabby either. His defense is way underrated on this board for some bizarre reason. I agree it's not a walk in the park for Roy to get back, but I also think he's the favorite for one of the 2 spots at the moment.

And to think that last summer Vnlza thought Nene's 14/8 was good enough to get a max contract. Now Hibbert's 13/9 "aren't that great."

Ace E.Anderson
10-02-2012, 01:41 PM
Roy is gonna have to compete against Bynum, Noah, Lopez, KG, Horford, Tyson Chandler, Varejao and Nene, out of those players you can count Bynum, Chandler and Noah as Roy's biggest competition with Nene, Horford, Lopez, Varejao and KG from the outside looking in depending of their teams records and how healthy they are.

He made it last season over all of those guys, so idk see why he couldn't again. I think a huge wild card would be Horford who will probably be the number one option offensively for the Hawks. They may not win as many games, but if he puts up really good numbers, with Bosh playing C and Bynum already seeming to be crowned the best C in the east, Roy may be the odd man out.

Outside of D. Wade and Joe Johnson, I'm struggling to think of other 2-guards that PG would have to challenge for that AS berth.

BillS
10-02-2012, 01:41 PM
Just out of curiosity what makes it impossible for Roy to maybe win the fan vote? He has been in the national news this summer.

That's not going to compete with the Miami Heat straight ticket voters or the Knick Connection. National news is good (especially when it is favorable), but it isn't the same as national hype. If Roy gets some highlights on ESPN slamming one down over Lopez or slapping it away from a driving LeBron, maybe. Stats alone just won't cut it with the fans who vote for the All-Star Game no matter how good they are, especially with teams essentially stuffing the ballot box with promotions and publicity (and, yeah, I hate when the Pacers do it, too.)

Trader Joe
10-02-2012, 01:42 PM
I think Roy has more of a national presence than we realize. He's been in the news, was on Parks & Rec, made the all star team last year

BillS
10-02-2012, 01:43 PM
And to think that last summer Vnlza thought Nene's 14/8 was good enough to get a max contract. Now Hibbert's 13/9 "aren't that great."

My pool entry for the reply:

Well, Nene was 14/8 on a contender. Hibbert was 13/9 on a team that shouldn't have even made the playoffs.

vnzla81
10-02-2012, 01:47 PM
And to think that last summer Vnlza thought Nene's 14/8 was good enough to get a max contract. Now Hibbert's 13/9 "aren't that great."

And Hibbert at 13/9 got the max .....

Since86
10-02-2012, 01:50 PM
And Hibbert at 13/9 got the max .....

My point has nothing to do with the dollar amount they're being paid, but rather is that when a player you want puts up 14/8, the Pacers should do anything and everything to get their services and when a Pacer player puts up pretty much identical production, you're dismissive of the Pacer player.

pizza guy
10-02-2012, 01:51 PM
I want Paul George to be an All-Star as well. Roy may not be a guarantee, but I think he's got a better than even chance to return to the ASG. Two All Stars (Roy, PG), plus two former All Stars (Danny, West), plus one of the most well-rounded players in the league (Hill) making up our starting five? Yeah, that sounds good to me.

Not that it hasn't been said, but I feel like the importance of the USA Select Team experience can't be understated for PG. He knew his performance in the playoffs wouldn't cut it, and he was given the opportunity to see how the world's best practice, prepare, and play; and I think he really tried to take advantage of that and use it to improve his game. I'm excited to see his progress this season. And like Shaw told him, the team's progress will likely mirror his personal progress.

vnzla81
10-02-2012, 01:56 PM
My point has nothing to do with the dollar amount they're being paid, but rather is that when a player you want puts up 14/8, the Pacers should do anything and everything to get their services and when a Pacer player puts up pretty much identical production, you're dismissive of the Pacer player.

I'm not dismissing anything, all I'm saying is that his numbers along are not going to put him over guys that have better numbers, it's not a giving that he is going to be an all star.

Since86
10-02-2012, 01:59 PM
No crap it's not a given he's going to be an All-Star. But pointing out that you think Nene's 14/8 is max worthy while Hibberts 13/9 "isn't that great" paints a pefect picture of how you compare non-Pacers with Pacers. You have a classic "grass is always greener on the other side" POV.

vnzla81
10-02-2012, 02:04 PM
No crap it's not a given he's going to be an All-Star. But pointing out that you think Nene's 14/8 is max worthy while Hibberts 13/9 "isn't that great" paints a pefect picture of how you compare non-Pacers with Pacers. You have a classic "grass is always greener on the other side" POV.

I'm done arguing with you, once again you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Pace Maker
10-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Just out of curiosity what makes it impossible for Roy to maybe win the fan vote? He has been in the national news this summer.

Roy is a well liked guy, but that will mean nothing compared to the giant bandwagon/Heat fanbase. Or even Philly if Bynum has a big year. Both players have much much bigger names than Roy.

MvPlumlee
10-02-2012, 02:25 PM
Our best player will have a good chance to make the A game, anyone else I doubt it.

Don't really care about it. Didn't even watched it last year. George making statements like these excites me a lot though. You the Man Paul! :)

billbradley
10-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Roy is a well liked guy, but that will mean nothing compared to the giant bandwagon/Heat fanbase. Or even Philly if Bynum has a big year. Both players have much much bigger names than Roy.

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.google.com/trends/embed.js?hl=en-US&q=roy+hibbert,+andrew+bynum,+chris+bosh&cmpt=q&content=1&cid=TIMESERIES_GRAPH_0&export=5&w=500&h=330"></script>

,,

SkipperZ
10-07-2012, 07:05 AM
No crap it's not a given he's going to be an All-Star. But pointing out that you think Nene's 14/8 is max worthy while Hibberts 13/9 "isn't that great" paints a pefect picture of how you compare non-Pacers with Pacers. You have a classic "grass is always greener on the other side" POV.

If you're a center having numbers that aren't that great are good enough to get you a max contract

hackashaq
10-07-2012, 09:29 AM
13 and 9 basically with 2 blocks isn't shabby either. His defense is way underrated on this board for some bizarre reason. I agree it's not a walk in the park for Roy to get back, but I also think he's the favorite for one of the 2 spots at the moment.

I think Tyson Chandler is pretty much a shoe-in for the coaches pick, considering he was snubbed last year. We've seen make up votes before. If he has a half decent healthy season, and the Knicks don't blow, he's an All Star.
So if Bynum is the starter, Chandler will be the backup imo.

Now the last two spots... idk. those are a crap shoot since anyone can be there regardless of position.

Steagles
10-07-2012, 08:39 PM
Just out of curiosity what makes it impossible for Roy to maybe win the fan vote? He has been in the national news this summer.

Hes not a superstar or teammate of. The all star game might as well be Celtics/Heat/Nets/Bulls stars vs LAC/LAL/OKC/SAS stars and Dirk every year.

focused444
10-07-2012, 09:12 PM
George watching the Heat series 7 or 8 times must have hurt in a good way, like growing pains. I've blocked out everything after game 3 and avoid it at all cost.

TheDavisBrothers
10-08-2012, 02:42 AM
At C, barring an injury to Bosh or Bynum, Hibbert's chances of making the All Star team are slim to none...

At SG, Wade is a lock to start, so it comes down to Johnson, Ellis, or George for the bench spot (unless one of the rookies, Beal, Waiters, or Ross has a huge season). Johnson will likely be on a really good team that gets a lot of attention with Brooklyn, but his numbers are declining as his age is rising. Ellis will be on a fringe playoff team without much exposure in Mil, but might get some sympathy votes due to his continual All Star "snubs". George, like Johnson is likely to be on a really good team, but like Ellis will not get much exposure.

There is also the chance that Hibbert or George could get one or both of the wildcard spots, but I just don't see them having a 3rd C on the All Star team, espcially concidering the type of game it is and the fact that Hibbert is likely not gonna be putting up the kind of eye catching numbers his competition is. As for George, I do think he has a decent shot at making it either as the backup SG or more likely one of the wildcards if he can score 16+ points a game and continue to have a strong impact on the other areas of the game, a la Iggy.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 07:08 AM
At C, barring an injury to Bosh or Bynum, Hibbert's chances of making the All Star team are slim to none...

At SG, Wade is a lock to start, so it comes down to Johnson, Ellis, or George for the bench spot (unless one of the rookies, Beal, Waiters, or Ross has a huge season). Johnson will likely be on a really good team that gets a lot of attention with Brooklyn, but his numbers are declining as his age is rising. Ellis will be on a fringe playoff team without much exposure in Mil, but might get some sympathy votes due to his continual All Star "snubs". George, like Johnson is likely to be on a really good team, but like Ellis will not get much exposure.

There is also the chance that Hibbert or George could get one or both of the wildcard spots, but I just don't see them having a 3rd C on the All Star team, espcially concidering the type of game it is and the fact that Hibbert is likely not gonna be putting up the kind of eye catching numbers his competition is. As for George, I do think he has a decent shot at making it either as the backup SG or more likely one of the wildcards if he can score 16+ points a game and continue to have a strong impact on the other areas of the game, a la Iggy.

keep in mind, fans and coaches vote for 'guards', not SG. And then there are 2 wildcards.
With Rose out, I think the starters are DWill and Wade.

Then you have Rondo.
Joe Johnson who I think will be fine. He's a decent creator but he was asked to do way too much for most of his Atlanta years; you could see an improvement last year with Teague and Smith taking some of the burden of creating the offense. Now imagine what DWill can do for him.
Kyrie Irving will get a big push.

These are the main contenders imo. 5 guys for 4 spots.

Then you have outside shots like Kyle Lowry. If Toronto improves by 10+ wins (very likely imo) I think he'll get consideration.
John Wall will be running a better team. The Wizards finished last year very well, and they've added talent since.
Milwaukee duo.

It will be very hard to get one of the 4 'guard' spots. Wild card seems a bit more likely.

mattie
10-08-2012, 09:45 AM
I forgot about Garnett. He's a center now. So center has Bynum, Garnett, Chandler and Bosh. Yeesh.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 10:00 AM
I forgot about Garnett. He's a center now. So center has Bynum, Garnett, Chandler and Bosh. Yeesh.

yeah... KG is likely too.
And I'd add Noah to that group as well. The Bulls stay solid - likely. They are still among the top defenses - likely too. If both are true, Noah will get considered.

I think this might be Danny time. East lacks forwards. Iggy's gone. Amare, Gerald Wallace time has passed, most likely.
LeBron/Melo will start. Deng/Pierce/Granger/Josh Smith for the 2 backup spots. Maybe Monroe or Nene, if they play forward and their teams are good.

I think it will be Pierce and a coin flip between Deng and Danny.

BRushWithDeath
10-08-2012, 10:05 AM
With Bosh being a center this year, it's going to be really hard for Hibbert to make the team barring injuries.

If Garnett is also a center, Hibbert certainly won't make it.

mattie
10-08-2012, 10:12 AM
yeah... KG is likely too.
And I'd add Noah to that group as well. The Bulls stay solid - likely. They are still among the top defenses - likely too. If both are true, Noah will get considered.

I think this might be Danny time. East lacks forwards. Iggy's gone. Amare, Gerald Wallace time has passed, most likely.
LeBron/Melo will start. Deng/Pierce/Granger/Josh Smith for the 2 backup spots. Maybe Monroe or Nene, if they play forward and their teams are good.

I think it will be Pierce and a coin flip between Deng and Danny.

That's going to be a tough sell too. Despite being the worst out of all 4, Deng is the current hipster pick favorite among coaches (those jackasses voted for him over Iggy all defense last season lol), Smith is the best out of all 4 and got snubbed last year, so he may be due for some makeup votes, and Pierce always has the tenured vote going for him.

vnzla81
10-08-2012, 10:14 AM
By looking at the whole team George Hill is the one that looks to me like the one player with the better chance to be an all star, Rondo and Dwill are in for sure but after that who? if Hill has some good numbers and the Pacers have a good record George Hill could probably make it.

mattie
10-08-2012, 10:17 AM
By looking at the whole team George Hill is the one that looks to me like the one player with the better chance to be an all star, Rondo and Dwill are in for sure but after that who? if Hill has some good numbers and the Pacers have a good record George Hill could probably make it.

It's guards not points, as was mentioned earlier, so if any guard on the Pacers is going to make it next season it would be Paul.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 10:24 AM
I guess I'm not a big fan of Josh Smith. I don't think he was snubbed last year, I think he was a marginal all star like several others.
This year, as long as Al Horford is fully healthy, he should be the 2nd best post player on his own team. And if Horford isn't fully back, that team won't be good. So I don't see him as a major threat.

I'm more worried about Deng, he'll have a big role on a team that should still make the playoffs.

Everything said... Best teams get rewarded with all star slots. I think it will be easiest to reward Danny this year, the same way it was easiest to reward Hibbert last year, even though he didn't deserve it over Tyson Chandler and KG.

vnzla81
10-08-2012, 10:54 AM
Josh Smith is pretty damn good, I get that many here hate his attitude but he averages 18.8 and 9.6 plays great D and can block shots too.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 11:03 AM
i don't care about attitude, it's his game I don't like. Obviously, you take attitude/leadership into consideration when building a team, but a good player is a good player.
But he takes way too many bad shots for me to consider him a clear All Star. A marginal All Star, sure.
The sad thing is that he keeps adding to his game every year. He works, he gets more versatile. Now he can even play some 5. But at the same time, he keeps taking more and more bad shots. I liked him 2 years ago more. He wasn't able to play 5, but he attacked the basket more.

CJ Jones
10-08-2012, 03:11 PM
That's going to be a tough sell too. Despite being the worst out of all 4, Deng is the current hipster pick favorite among coaches (those jackasses voted for him over Iggy all defense last season lol), Smith is the best out of all 4 and got snubbed last year, so he may be due for some makeup votes, and Pierce always has the tenured vote going for him.

Lol, who's the jackass? The guy that pushes a couple buttons on his computer to form his opinions or the the guy who spent nearly his whole life studying the game and earning his way to the top of his profession?

Fact is the numbers were nearly identical last year between Iggy and Deng. Deng actually held players to lower shooting percentages than Iggy, and the Bulls held opponents to the lowest fg% and ppg in the league so it's not crazy to see why Deng ended up with 1 more vote for the all defensive team (20-19).

That said I'd still take Iggy over Deng if I need 1 stop to end a game.

edit: what i can't explain is the Boozer vote. That must have been some kind of inside joke

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 03:36 PM
I think Deng deserved to be on the All Defense team, but Iguodala should've gotten Kobe or Ibaka's spot IMO.

re Deng-Ibaka, I'd probably take Deng on Melo, Kobe or Paul Pierce, someone big, great individually and with a solid post up game. But if I have to defend a smaller guy, and especially a playmaker (Wade, Harden, Rose) it's Iggy.
But tbh, you are fine just tossing a coin defensively, their offense is the difference. Do you want someone who will stretch the floor, or a far better creator.

dgranger17
10-08-2012, 03:58 PM
I forgot there were people who actually wanted Nene. Lol.

daschysta
10-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Josh Smith is pretty damn good, I get that many here hate his attitude but he averages 18.8 and 9.6 plays great D and can block shots too.

Agreed, Smith is an absolute handful, and could be one of the top players in the entire league if he played with a little more discipline and didn't fall in love with his jumpshot, which is more streaky than he treats it (not that it isn't devastating when it's going in, like in our last game vs. them)

I really disagree about Hill having a better shot at the ASG than Paul though. Hill is underrated here, and a very good combo guard, but George has more hype and momentum as a potential rising star, which shapes the perception of the player, and he simply has more raw talent. The fact that he's starting as the "2 guard" while Hill is starting as a 1 hurts Hill's shot too. Even though I look at Hill as just a "guard" he'll likely be competing with other point guards meaning he'd need to compete with

D Williams
R Rondo
D. Rose (if he comes back in time)
K Irving


Each of whom are significantly better than Hill

Also at least

J. Teague
J. Holiday
B. Jennings
J. Wall (though I expect a leap from Wall playing with some serious players like Okafor and Nene for a whole season to group 1)

Are comparably good and will probably have a larger role on their respective teams.

Paul though, competing against 2 guards, you've got-

D. Wade
J. Johnson
A. Afflalo (underrated, will get lots of shots on a terrible Orlando team and will get a look at the ASG if they are miraculously even just bad instead of terrible)

Is any other 2 guard head and shoulders better than PG in the East, especially if PG makes even a moderate leap next year?

I think the Pacers will get off to a very fast start (even you admit they are a very good regular season team, and have great chemistry), and will have at least 2 guys in the game, heck, we probably would have had 2 last year if Granger didn't lay an egg for the first quarter+ of the season.

His biggest comp will probably actually be Granger, since I don't see us with 3 All Stars.

If Granger recovers and is playing at anywhere close to his 2nd half of the season form, or really even the level of the 2 years before last (19-21 ppg 5-6 rpg on 43-45% from the field, 38-40% from 3) I see us getting Roy (14-15 ppg 9-10 rpg on 50% I don't think is unreasonable to expect from him since he was 13-9 last year and tends to improve each year and is still young) and Danny. If Danny is playing more like a 18 ppg 41-42% guy I think Paul has a great chance at the game if he is putting 14-15 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg 1 bpg 2-2.5 spg on his usual percentages while cementing his rep as a defensive stopper on one of the better teams in the conference.

We all know that PG has All-Star talent, I don't think him making the game next year is as pie in the sky as some think. Granger's 3rd year was the year he "made the leap" and PG is also a hard worker and is far more talented than Granger ever was, on both sides of the ball.

Our talent is pretty underrated, especially by those looking just at stats, afterall what other team ran such a balanced offense other than Memphis and Denver in the NBA?

You can argue that we have

Arguably the 2nd best center in the conference (opinions will vary, but Roy is comparable to Chandler, Noah, Lopez some put him at the top some put him below, the coaches put him above them all last season.) Bynum for now, is clearly the best as long as he is healthy of course.

Arguably the 3rd best Small forward in the conference (After LBJ/Melo he and Deng and Current Pierce are a crapshoot)

Arguably the 3rd best Shooting Guard in the conference ( I don't think it is crazy to say it gets muddy after Wade and J. Johnson)

I'm interested to see how West is with a full year between his rehab too, because the West that was with New Orleans would be a top 5 power forward in the conference pretty easily too, his 21-8 on 50% and great from the line years compare well to most of the 4 men in the East as well, though on this team he won't put up those numbers, he isn't far removed from some very, very good years with CP3 in New Orleans, he wasn't a 2 time all-star against the stacked big men in the West for nothing after all.

We need PG to make a leap to where he is inarguably the 2nd best 2 guard, who can at least contain Wade to really make the leap, but as a supporting cast for such a player we're pretty elite.

If we're on pace for a big season the coaches will give us at least 1 all-star, it's pretty much how it works, coaches reward players from winning teams, it is very tough to make it otherwise unless you're an anomaly like D-Will who is juts clearly a great player in a crap situation.

daschysta
10-08-2012, 04:04 PM
Hes not a superstar or teammate of. The all star game might as well be Celtics/Heat/Nets/Bulls stars vs LAC/LAL/OKC/SAS stars and Dirk every year.

Don't forget the Knicks, Melo is going to be in every year too, and Boston doesn't have a player that will win the fan vote any more. I doubt a Pacer is going to win the fan vote of course, unless they knock Miami out of the playoffs or something, but Roy has a decent national presence.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 04:09 PM
but voters vote for "guard", "forward" and "center". Then there are two position-less spots. And injury selections.
So Paul George isn't just competing with Afflalo, he's also competing with Rondo, Irving, etc.

daschysta
10-08-2012, 05:02 PM
Technically that is how it is, but in practice they tend to conform to positions except in cases wherein there aren't alternatives Joe Johnson is a, what 6 time all-star (not that he didn't deserve it some years, but in years where he was putting up 21 ppg on less than 53-54 TS% in more than 39 minutes per game, which covers basically the last 4 times he made the team you can bet he got a boost from the 2 guard position being weak behind Wade instead of the 3, or the 1). Jameer Nelson made the All-star game one year largely due to his position and team etc... It still matters, it's just they won't stick to it so closely that it means snubbing someone who is clearly superior. In the case of 2 comparable players though having less competition at the position can make a difference.

Paul George putting up 14-16 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg with 2 or so steals per game while maintaining his reputation as a defensive stud on a strong team will certainly benefit from playing the 2 guard, instead of the 3, for example and would have a very compelling case for the All-Star game when it comes down to the coaches vote. Ditto to Roy Hibbert and Danny Granger.

I also don't get the assertion that Roy didn't deserve his spot last year over Chandler, remember at the time of the All-Star game Roy Hibbert was averaging

13.8 ppg
9.6 rpg
1.7 bpg

.512 from the field in 30.8 mpg (16.4 ppg 11.44 rpg 1.98 bpg per 36 minutes) on one of the conferences top teams.

Whereas at the same point Chandler was averaging

11.7 ppg
9.5 rpg
1.3 bpg

on .703 from the field in 33.5 mpg ( 12.5 ppg 10.2 rpg 1.4 bpg per 36 minutes) on a team that was massively underperforming and was out of the playoff picture)

Hibbert was more productive in less minutes on a better team scoring more, blocking more and rebounding more even in terms of raw numbers in 3 less minutes per game. I don't see the how Roy didn't earn it over Chandler on his own merits, it wasn't a pity vote, or just a team accomplishment vote, he had a very strong case based on his merits. Chandler is the better defensive player, but Roy is a good defender too, and Roy is infinitely more valuable offensively, since you can actually run an offense through him, as opposed to Chandler who has no post game other than put backs or dunks gift wrapped from pick and roll action.

hackashaq
10-08-2012, 05:03 PM
Joe Johnson is a good player and was a top 5 guard in the conference for many years.

Naptown_Seth
10-08-2012, 05:14 PM
Curveball - Gerald Green makes the AS team instead.

Mind blown.

How? Good numbers paired with highlight dunks to get attention. The good enough numbers seem very unlikely of course, but since we are wildly speculating about the quality of every Eastern player next season before games are even being played...

Heisenberg
10-08-2012, 05:17 PM
Curveball - Gerald Green makes the AS team instead.

Mind blown.

How? Good numbers paired with highlight dunks to get attention. The good enough numbers seem very unlikely of course, but since we are wildly speculating about the quality of every Eastern player next season before games are even being played...

Danny's knee's worse than we think, misses the first half of the year. PG slides to the 3, Green plays 34 minutes a night at the 2...

Pacers Digest servers crash under the weight of DANNY'S HOLDING US BACK threads...

daschysta
10-08-2012, 05:28 PM
Danny's knee's worse than we think, misses the first half of the year. PG slides to the 3, Green plays 34 minutes a night at the 2...

Pacers Digest servers crash under the weight of DANNY'S HOLDING US BACK threads...

I think that I would have a conniption fit. Not because of GG, that would be awesome, but because of anti-danny threads.

To be fair it would be amazing for the team if GG really broke out and we could trade Danny+ other parts for a star point all while saving tons of cash on GG's steal of a contract, but the idea that Danny is somehow holding us back is both asinine and pervasive in this forum. Danny has his limits, but he and PG can absolutely play together. It isn't a coincidence that our starting 5 was so statistically dominant, and that Danny was by far our best player in terms of on/off. Even when he wasn't playing well in the Miami series people should be able to get the point when looking at how badly we got creamed when Danny left game 5 with his injury...

I think GG could open some eyes for sure though, kid has serious skills and was seen as a guy with star talent at one point, when he's on he can be so deadly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMOPNs_7kHs

mattie
10-09-2012, 12:54 AM
Also, for those only interested in numbers, 82games.com provides some numbers comparing the two players in question.

http://www.82games.com/1112/11PHI7.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11CHI9.HTM

If you scroll down, Iggy held opponents to an effective FG% of .404. Deng held opponents to an effective FG% of .456.

Everything else should have been in the form of a p.m., thank you

CJ Jones
10-09-2012, 02:08 AM
Really?

http://mySynergySports.com...

edit: come on now mods... if you're gonna tamper with my posts you can at least give me a reason why

FWIW mattie, i never called you a "jackass". That was your word describing NBA coaches. I just simply asked a question and left it up to the readers to decide.

CJ Jones
10-09-2012, 02:29 AM
I think Deng deserved to be on the All Defense team, but Iguodala should've gotten Kobe or Ibaka's spot IMO.

re Deng-Ibaka, I'd probably take Deng on Melo, Kobe or Paul Pierce, someone big, great individually and with a solid post up game. But if I have to defend a smaller guy, and especially a playmaker (Wade, Harden, Rose) it's Iggy.
But tbh, you are fine just tossing a coin defensively, their offense is the difference. Do you want someone who will stretch the floor, or a far better creator.

Yeah I think they both deserved it, there just wasn't enough room for both. The only reason I take Iggy over Deng is his ability to turn you over. You can't go wrong with either one though.

hackashaq
10-09-2012, 06:31 AM
82games assume that if you play at SF, your counterpart is the opposing SF, which isn't really true in case of stoppers who defend multiple positions. Deng did it, but especially Iggy did it, he defended the best 1-2-3.

hackashaq
10-09-2012, 06:36 AM
Yeah I think they both deserved it, there just wasn't enough room for both. The only reason I take Iggy over Deng is his ability to turn you over. You can't go wrong with either one though.

well, i looked at the votes yesterday when you guys started discussing it, and Kobe had several votes less than Iggy - but Iggy didn't get the spot because he's a "forward". Although in real life, he's as much a SG as he is a forward, and he'll play mostly SG this year.
It's a shame that the voting system lacks flexibility so much. They should've given the SG spot to Iggy, and SF to Deng.

CJ Jones
10-09-2012, 02:14 PM
82games assume that if you play at SF, your counterpart is the opposing SF, which isn't really true in case of stoppers who defend multiple positions. Deng did it, but especially Iggy did it, he defended the best 1-2-3.

I tend to agree with this, although fans of the site and I'm pretty sure the site itself claim they watch every play, but I have my doubts. Synergy's my stat website of choice.

hackashaq
10-09-2012, 04:52 PM
I tend to agree with this, although fans of the site and I'm pretty sure the site itself claim they watch every play, but I have my doubts. Synergy's my stat website of choice.

i don't know about fans, but the site is very open about it, it's written on the site somewhere.

CJ Jones
10-09-2012, 08:26 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/sam-young-strong-wing-defender-looks-prove-himself


Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well

Looks like we can put to rest the idea Paul's not strong enough to guard SFs in the league. As well as Danny's stats say he played last year the coach still recognizes Paul's our best option.

hackashaq
10-09-2012, 09:05 PM
Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well

Sam Young is by far the young-est player on this roster.

I think I'd still put Granger on LeBron or Paul Pierce types, strong/skilled guys who like to post up. But it depends on what George has done over the summer.

CJ Jones
10-10-2012, 02:58 PM
Sam Young is by far the young-est player on this roster.

I think I'd still put Granger on LeBron or Paul Pierce types, strong/skilled guys who like to post up. But it depends on what George has done over the summer.

Sam's 27

I agree about Danny's post D, but post play is nearly non existent these days for wing players. In nearly 80 games both Paul and Danny were posted up less then 1 time per game, and if you go back and watch them half of those are basically just post isos where the guy receives the ball in the mid post area then faces up to make his move. There were very few legit post plays where the offensive player overpowered Danny or Paul. Being able to defend in space and having the speed and quickness to play help D and still get back to your man (Danny's main weakness) is much more important for a wing then post D IMO.

Ace E.Anderson
10-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Sam's 27

I agree about Danny's post D, but post play is nearly non existent these days for wing players. In nearly 80 games both Paul and Danny were posted up less then 1 time per game, and if you go back and watch them half of those are basically just post isos where the guy receives the ball in the mid post area then faces up to make his move. There were very few legit post plays where the offensive player overpowered Danny or Paul. Being able to defend in space and having the speed and quickness to play help D and still get back to your man (Danny's main weakness) is much more important for a wing then post D IMO.

This is why Danny was more effective guarding D Wade and PG was more effective guarding Lebron. D-Wade lacks the explosivness that he used to inherit off the bounce, so now he normally just overpowers other 2-guards in the post, but he wasn't going to do that to DG. With Granger able to use his strength and length, he was also able to keep D-Wade in front of him for the most part.

Meanwhile, PG was able to back off Lebron a bit and still challenge his J, but still stay with Bron when he attacked from the high post area, looking to make a move to the basket (see that Ridiculous block off the backboard PG was able to make on Lebron)

hackashaq
10-10-2012, 03:19 PM
Sam's 27

I agree about Danny's post D, but post play is nearly non existent these days for wing players. In nearly 80 games both Paul and Danny were posted up less then 1 time per game, and if you go back and watch them half of those are basically just post isos where the guy receives the ball in the mid post area then faces up to make his move. There were very few legit post plays where the offensive player overpowered Danny or Paul. Being able to defend in space and having the speed and quickness to play help D and still get back to your man (Danny's main weakness) is much more important for a wing then post D IMO.

Young-est

re the main point - you have to keep in mind the particular subject. Defending the best small forwards, and in this case strong 3s who will post up. That's not someone you meet every game. help D, how often does it happen per game, what happened to George in those situations -- all of that works very differently if we are talking about LeBron vs. average small forward.