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obnoxiousmodesty
09-27-2012, 07:21 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ken-berger/20388749/new-policy-in-the-works-to-combat-nba-flopping

New policy in the works to combat NBA flopping


By Ken Berger | NBA Insider
<time class="storydate mBottom10" pubdate="" datetime="2012-09-27T22:46:33Z">September 27, 2012 6:46 pm ET

</time>ELIZABETH, N.J. -- The NBA is finalizing a new procedure to deal with flopping this coming season, with an off-court remedy expected to be in place before the start of the regular season.

After meeting with their newly revamped competition committee two weeks ago in New York, the league anticipates that incidents of flopping will be adjudicated on a postgame basis with fines assessed for the offenses, a league spokesman said Thursday.

"The procedures will likely involve a postgame review as opposed to calling it as an in-game infraction," the league spokesman said in a statement to CBSSports.com and other outlets.

The new policy does not need to be approved by the Board of Governors, which meets next month in New York, because it does not involve a rule change for on-court play. In that way, the new policy will be similar to a crackdown several years ago on so-called "respect for the game" rules violations, which resulted in a brief uptick in technical fouls.

The news came to light as the NBA's officiating department held its annual preseason camp, some of which was attended by sports writers and broadcasters who cover the NBA. It was the first such meeting under the leadership of Mike Bantom, who was appointed executive vvice president of referee operations earlier this month, replacing former U.S. Army Gen. Ron Johnson.<time class="storydate mBottom10" pubdate="" datetime="2012-09-27T22:46:33Z">
</time>

Strummer
09-27-2012, 07:26 PM
:applaud: Better than nothing.

xIndyFan
09-27-2012, 07:42 PM
surprised they didn't the same way the do flagrant's and technical's.

don't think fines are gonna fix it.

ChicagoJ
09-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Mike Bantom?!?

Wow.

On the 77-78 team, Mike Bantom was among the league leaders in personal fouls, but he had to work really hard to beat teammates Ricky Sobers and James Edwards to that distinction.

Imagine having a team today with four starters averaging 4.1 (Bantom), 4.0 (Edwards), 3.9 (Sobers) and 3.8 (Roundfield) FPG. That would cause just about any coach to lose thier mind.

That team might have been a lot better than 31-51, but Slick couldn't keep the players on the court. Amazing that Slick didn't have a heart attack that season.

Now, imagine that the radio play-by-play voice on WIBC is... Bob Lamey. And imagine that he gets frustrated -just a little bit- (!!!) with the foul troubles and officiating. Oh yeah, that's bound to get interesting. He's really calmed down over the years. Amazing that Lamey didn't have a heart attack that season.

And then there was 8-year old Jay@Listeningtotheradioathome and Jay's_Dad@Listeningtotheradioathome tuned in for most of the games... amazing they didn't have heart attacks that season.

:laugh:

daschysta
09-27-2012, 07:59 PM
It won't "stop" flopping during critical periods of the game, but it may well stop it from being such a common occurence if the NBA makes a few high profile fines levied against frequent offenders early on to give the impression to players that the NBA isn't messing around.

Which is infinitely better than what we have now. I'm optimistic. Also refs may not let flopping fly as often if they no the NBA is watching, because they know that the NBA is watching, and their performance will be put under scrutiny too. Yes, our team goes to the line alot too, but we also pound the ball down low more than almost every other team too, sure we flop sometimes, but we don't rely on it for calls like alot of other teams built around star wings do. Those guys are good enough to force a foul anyways, no reason to reward them further when they flop.

shags
09-27-2012, 08:20 PM
I think the best thing the league can do is come up with examples of players flopping, have officials travel to every team in the first week of training camp, and show the players a video of what is considered a flop and a fineable offense. That way the players know what they can and can not do.

Then the refs need to try their darnedest to not call the flops the players commit. I doubt the flopping fines will be significant. It'll probably be less than a technical (maybe $250 to $500 a flop, if that high). But commit several, and it will add up.

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-27-2012, 09:34 PM
Well Dwayne Wades efficiency just dropped if this policy actually gets enforced. That could help us in a playoff series.

BornReady
09-27-2012, 09:36 PM
FIRST thing that came to mind :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elz4DJZgVsE

Sparhawk
09-27-2012, 09:45 PM
Refs should def have a list of players that typically flop the most. Looking at you international players!

Naptown_Seth
09-27-2012, 09:46 PM
Dear Basketball God,

Please follow my advice. The ends justify the means.
When Wade is forced to put his arm around the murdering drug lord his fine money was donated to because of a flop, he'll start thinking about what flopping is really doing to his image.


BTW, which is worse, baseball steroids or NBA flopping?


And my theory on flopping is that when they took the game international you saw the Euro culture of soccer/basketball infiltrate the NBA, areas where flopping was already accepted as just part of the game and with no shame associated with it. What's next, flares tossed at the court. I mean we already had the riot. I think we are a bunch of yellow scarves away from a Premiere League match.

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-27-2012, 09:50 PM
I think steroids is worse, just because steroids is something they have been pretending to address for years, where as the NBA has a fine line to walk and can never be expected to get it right.

pacergod2
09-27-2012, 10:21 PM
I wonder if the league will look the other way when it is Lebron flopping like a b**ch all over the court like the stinky smelly fishy V*g*na he is.

Nope don't want to make LeDouche look bad.

pizza guy
09-27-2012, 10:41 PM
This will be an interesting thing to watch. How the NBA defines a flop and how they levy the fines. Hopefully this works out well and leads to a cleaner game with a little more integrity.

Sookie
09-27-2012, 10:43 PM
This is going to work out the way the NBA techs for expressive behavior worked out. Which is to say, I don't suggest Lou flop, but Lebron is unlikely to get fined for it.

Pingu
09-27-2012, 11:47 PM
Refs should def have a list of players that typically flop the most. Looking at you international players!

Yeah, all those floppers from overseas, like Wade or Bosh, had better be careful now!

rexnom
09-28-2012, 12:01 AM
Nobody wants to get fined. It'll be a great deterrent, assuming the fines are large enough. We will see a bunch of fines in the first year and then less flopping after.

Hicks
09-28-2012, 12:04 AM
I have my doubts as to how effective this will be, but I welcome it in any case.

LetsTalkPacers84
09-28-2012, 12:06 AM
In other words superstars still get away with it in game, which changes nothing. But we as fans are suppose to be a little more ok with it, because they have to pay a small fine out of their fat wallets. I'm sure this will stop the flopper chants all together.

But like the rest of you have said. Better than nothing.

spazzxb
09-28-2012, 01:48 AM
I think this could potentially be more effective than people are thinking. Everything is on video these days and stars are more under the microscope than anyone. Also opponents get angry when someone flops. In a big moment if it happens you can be sure the opposing team will be paying attention if there is a fine or not. If it isn't enforced fairly people will talk . If players just repeatidly pay the fine it won't be good for there image. How its enforce remains to be scene, but if Lebran gets away with free flopping on us I say we blow video of it up on twitter and demand mike wells assist.

Also auto backup is awesome(first time i needed it.)

Peck
09-28-2012, 02:29 AM
Man Reggie got out with his wallet in tact.:)

RLeWorm
09-28-2012, 03:13 AM
finally! I'm tired of players acting now. play the game its more fun and exciting to watch. Flopping hurts the game so much.

Speed
09-28-2012, 07:49 AM
FIRST thing that came to mind :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elz4DJZgVsE

The title says Foster, but I'm pretty sure its Deiner using his physical enforcer style of smashmouth intimidating basketball. I hope this makes a difference, its embarrassing watching Battier flop around.

Smits Happens
09-28-2012, 09:19 AM
In addition to a fine, they need to do something similar to what they do with technicals - you accumulate so many, you get suspended for a game. That would help crack down on it.

Brad8888
09-28-2012, 09:42 AM
Apparently, Oklahoma City is becoming a favored franchise. This should hurt both the Heat and the Lakers if it is enforced equally across the league. Unless, of course, the ownership of those franchises simply pay the fines for their players...

Hicks
09-28-2012, 12:46 PM
In addition to a fine, they need to do something similar to what they do with technicals - you accumulate so many, you get suspended for a game. That would help crack down on it.

This is the missing ingredient.

A-Train
09-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Then, get to enforcing the traveling rules. To me, this would be the biggest and best change they could make. Eliminate 5 step drives down the lane and make these guys dribble. Never happen, I know, just dreaming a little.

Eleazar
09-28-2012, 01:22 PM
This is the missing ingredient.

I mostly agree. It really just depends on how much they are willing to fine the players.

Rogco
09-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Then, get to enforcing the traveling rules. To me, this would be the biggest and best change they could make. Eliminate 5 step drives down the lane and make these guys dribble. Never happen, I know, just dreaming a little.

But if they did this then Durant wouldn't be nearly as good.

Rogco
09-28-2012, 01:24 PM
New flopping rule means nothing. The same star players will get the same star treatment. It just means that king floppers Dwayne and James will **** me off even more as flopping is called against the players that are guarding them, but not called on them for flops that are five times more flagrant.

Sparhawk
09-28-2012, 02:43 PM
At least flopping is getting the attention it needs to have. It's rampant and I honestly can't stand it.

Even if this doesn't do anything, I just hope it's just one step in the right direction with more steps to eventually come.

Sandman21
09-28-2012, 03:07 PM
but not called on them for flops that are five times more flagrant.
Which is where opposing fans let em hear it.... :D Remember when seemingly the ENTIRE Fieldhouse chanted "He's a Flopper" at Wade late in game 3? :D

Naptown_Seth
09-28-2012, 03:48 PM
Yeah, but I also had a 3rd row seat for Lebron's flop of the year when he bounced the dribble off his own face, then flailed backward and out of bounds with 2 feet of space between himself and the 2 defenders (West and Danny IIRC). So as much as the fans were letting them hear about it, they still pulled it off.

Another nasty one was a called flop by Spol where they had Chalmers flop on a screen to get a TO, as overheard by the guy sitting next to me at game 6.

Fan/peer pressure on the refs wasn't really having an impact.



Also - F the Heat, just saying. ;)

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-28-2012, 03:56 PM
Anybody else remember when Lebron climbed on David Wests back for a rebound, and they called the foul on West?

Or when Lebron whined about the call, and the refs actually changed the call for them?

BRushWithDeath
09-28-2012, 03:58 PM
The title says Foster, but I'm pretty sure its Deiner using his physical enforcer style of smashmouth intimidating basketball. I hope this makes a difference, its embarrassing watching Battier flop around.

It was Foster who got Spalding imprinted on his forehead.

Diener who threw the weakest hip check in sports history.

DangerGranger3pointranger
09-28-2012, 04:59 PM
It's about time this finally happened

Sandman21
09-29-2012, 04:56 PM
I love Fake Bill Walton:
http://notbillwalton.lockerdome.com/articles/101092379

Ichi
09-29-2012, 09:05 PM
Apparently, Oklahoma City is becoming a favored franchise. This should hurt both the Heat and the Lakers if it is enforced equally across the league. Unless, of course, the ownership of those franchises simply pay the fines for their players...

I don't see how this hurts the Lakers much.. More like the Clippers.

ReginaldWayne
10-03-2012, 03:28 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8457259/nba-establishes-new-anti-flopping-penalties-fine-players

Hicks
10-03-2012, 03:38 PM
I was happy to learn that these can eventually lead to a suspension, at least in theory.

Sandman21
10-03-2012, 03:52 PM
I'll believe it when Lebron and Wade are paying a 30k fine each a week into the season.

And if the league actually suspends them for flopping, I will **** rainbows and unicorns.

Mackey_Rose
10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
This is going to be brutal to enforce. I'm pretty skeptical this policy will do much of anything to curtail it. It's already become too much a part of the game.

Trophy
10-03-2012, 03:58 PM
The league cannot be lenient with this. They have it in place and it needs to be accessed fairly amongst those who do it.

Sandman21
10-03-2012, 05:51 PM
Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS

NBPA announces it will file grievance and unfair labor practices charge against #NBA over new flopping fines.

:picardriker:

Think we just got Lebron and Wade's response?

DGPR
10-03-2012, 06:49 PM
As a member of a union myself, I have to agree with the NBPA for filing this grievance. No company with union employees should be able to pass rules that impose financial penalties without first bargaining with the union. I don't agree with flopping, and actually despise it, but the NBPA wouldn't be doing their jobs if they weren't looking out for the financial well-being of its members.

LG33
10-03-2012, 07:01 PM
That's a lot of money for something so subjective.

Mad-Mad-Mario
10-03-2012, 07:05 PM
I'm sorry but there are some things the Union should agree is in the best interest of the league. This is shortsighted and stupid on the unions part. Stern is trying to restore some semblance of order to the game. Hes trying to get the NBA on par with MLB and the NFL in popularity by copying their model of "Any team can win it"

Building the brand that is the NBA is the best move for everybody. The players union should be embracing this. Instead they want to keep the trend of BS super star discounts that have helped contribute to a malaise in so many fanbases. Going into this season there are anywhere between 20-25 teams fanbases that absolutely know they aren't going to be able to win an NBA title. So of course the league is going to suffer.

Where as you look at MLB or the NFL and you can usually see the possibility of half or more teams managing to squeak into the playoffs. And from there anything is possible. You don't think that helps those leagues turn profits?

But no, the Players union should of course protect its over coddled superstar floppers with complete disregard to the 12th men and the financial viability of the league.

ChicagoJ
10-03-2012, 07:08 PM
That's a lot of money for something so subjective.


Flopping is hard to define, like porn? I know it when I see it?

Hicks
10-03-2012, 07:15 PM
I didn't think their definition was too vague. :shrug:

Mad-Mad-Mario
10-03-2012, 07:21 PM
Oh and if the NBA can't fine the players. Just have a flop count as a personal foul or a technical. Bet the guys will be a begging to pay a fine instead.

Sandman21
10-03-2012, 07:24 PM
Brian Mahoney @briancmahoney
A number of players express support for anti-flopping penalties, then union announces it will file a grievance over them.
36 minutes ago
Brian Mahoney @briancmahoney
Kobe likes the new rule. "Shameless flopping, that's a chump move," he says. Says Vlade "kind of pioneered it." #stoptheflop
about 2 hours ago

My respect for Kobe went up just a tad bit. Not a whole lot, but just a little. You know its Wade and Lebron leading this union outcry.

Kuq_e_Zi91
10-04-2012, 12:08 AM
Brian Mahoney @briancmahoney
A number of players express support for anti-flopping penalties, then union announces it will file a grievance over them.
36 minutes ago
Brian Mahoney @briancmahoney
Kobe likes the new rule. "Shameless flopping, that's a chump move," he says. Says Vlade "kind of pioneered it." #stoptheflop
about 2 hours ago

My respect for Kobe went up just a tad bit. Not a whole lot, but just a little. You know its Wade and Lebron leading this union outcry.

And Chris Paul. Isn't he on the board? I'm sure he's received some input from his teammates in Flop City as well.

RLeWorm
10-04-2012, 12:34 PM
hopefully it's actually enforced. This was a must cause flopping is getting out of hands. We see every flop now thankfully to replays. Players are making flopping a skill which is not real basketball. Even 2k13 put flopping into their game. wtf?

rel
10-05-2012, 09:05 PM
apparently this is the video that defines what will be fined/not fined.
Keyword is over-embellishment

http://dmmx2.nba.com/videourlredirect?&project=/bballops/bballops_Flopping_Video_10_3_12

The Clippers will be broke by midseason...

pizza guy
10-06-2012, 12:10 AM
apparently this is the video that defines what will be fined/not fined.
Keyword is over-embellishment

http://dmmx2.nba.com/videourlredirect?&project=/bballops/bballops_Flopping_Video_10_3_12

The Clippers will be broke by midseason...

Definitely helps to clear it up. Basically, if it looks like it's a natural basketball-related flop, or fall, without all the cheap theatrics, it'll still be safe. Hopefully when they review the tape, they will take into consideration how much contact was actually made, and not just how a player flails his arms or head.

If that's the official video, I definitely like the selection of flops. Parker, Wade, other big names used as examples of a fine-worthy flop. And the last example of a non-fine flop shows Paul George getting away with a savvy veteran "nudge" in the back.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2012, 11:06 PM
This will still be a challenge. When a 260-lb PF or C bumps into a 215-lb wing player, the forty-five pound difference is going to make it tough to determine if this is simply the physical consequence of mass and speed hitting a smaller mass (which may or may not have speed) or extra acting. Hopefully this process won't be subject to someone like Mike Breen - who's really bad at this as an announcer - declaring every time a bigger guy hits a smaller guy that the smaller guy is flopping.

If all announcers start getting this wrong the way Breen does, then I propose that we as fans get to watch a video tape of Breen taking small bumps from James, Shaq, and even medium-sized NBA players like Anthony and let's see if he goes flying (he will) and let's see if the small guys are always being accused of flopping going forward?

Obviously, the biggest thing this will help is when there is no contact and Manu (I love him anyway, get over it!) keels over like its a gunshot wound. And by no contact, I mean Ike Taylor how-the-heck-did-you-call-that-pass-interference? vs. Santonio Holmes types of no contact. Not a judgment call of "did he actually hit him that hard"?

gummy
10-06-2012, 11:29 PM
Flopping is hard to define, like porn? I know it when I see it?

+5 for the Supreme Court reference.

I love that we still seem to be under the skin of the Miami area media:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/06/3036848/miami-heat-players-react-to-new.html

"Reputation may play a big role in it,” Battier said.And that’s exactly what Indiana coach Frank Vogel is hoping will happen this season when the NBA begins administering its new “anti-flopping” rule."
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/06/3036848/miami-heat-players-react-to-new.html#storylink=cpy

Sandman21
10-07-2012, 12:08 AM
The league should let Jeff Van Gundy be in charge of reviewing the flops....:devil: