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View Full Version : Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys



Hicks
09-25-2012, 10:24 PM
Lots of good teases here:

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/2012/09/25/pacers-granger-to-bring-brought-slowly-early-in-camp/

graphic-er
09-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Lets hope we dont' have a repeat of Grangers post all-star year where he tore his plantar fascia because they didn't let him rest the nagging injury. As we seen last year against Miami, Granger his still the heart and soul of this team.

imbtyler
09-26-2012, 12:31 AM
Some things I really liked:


Before we get to that, though, forward Danny Granger, the team’s leading scorer the past five seasons, will be limited some at the start of training camp after an issue with his left knee, which happened while working out in Los Angeles late in the summer, caused him to get an injection in it.

Besides mindfully resting his knee, I call shenanigans in saying that this is "Operation: How Does The Team Do Without Danny".


I ran into forward David West in the building and immediately noticed that he spent a lot of time in the offseason toning up his upper body.It helps that he was able to work on his entire body during the summer instead of just focusing on rehabilitating his surgically repaired knee like in the summer of 2011.

Good to know that West is making use of his time. And that he's focusing on his strength. The last thing the other 29 teams in the NBA need is David West looking even meaner.


Vogel said Lance Stephenson has the inside track to backup Paul George at shooting guard.
“Lance Stephenson has challenged for playing time for two years. Now he’s playing with more confidence than he ever has. So he’s going to challenge the starters.”

This seems to be the case with Lance. But if Vogel is impressed, then I can't wait to see how he does with the playing time he's given. Looks like he'll actually get plenty of chances this season.


Vogel on Gerald Green and D.J. Augustin:
“Gerald Green is doing things everyday I didn’t think was possible for human beings to do. D.J. has really blown me away in the limited time that he’s been here in terms of his ability to create and make others better. That’s a unique talent to have. Literally on almost every possession he makes somebody better with his passing.”

Apparently, Gerald Green is an alien. I should've called it a long time ago. I really hope that he does what he's supposed to for this team. He has a lot of potential. Also, it's good to know that DJ is making a name for himself in the facilitation department.


Vogel on Jeff Pendergraph:
“He might have had as good a September as anybody on our team. Donnie Walsh called him the MVP of the month. He’s going to be pushing for minutes.”

I was hoping Pendergraph would start pushing for minutes around the team. I'd be happy with JP, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Fez, Lou, and Jeff Foster fighting for backup minutes if it meant Hansbrough was getting fewer minutes. Not a blatant "hate remark", I'm just saying that I hope even Pendergraph can make Hansbrough fight for his playing time.


Vogel on Ian Mahinmi:
“We felt like Lou (Amundson) did a great job last year, but we also felt like we got lucky with injuries to (Andrew) Bogut, (Al) Horford, (Brook) Lopez and (Dwight) Howard. We think Mahinmi will size up and give us more depth against those elite centers better than Lou did.”

It's good that Vogel realizes that we got lucky with all the big man injuries this season. And I'm glad that Mahinmi was the solution for that problem (rather him that trusting Hansbrough to turn around).

Heisenberg
09-26-2012, 12:31 AM
Danny's had nagging knee stuff since college. Wonder if he's looked into the platelette spinning stuff Kobe and some other guys got done in Germany? If it'd even help.

If they say it's no big deal, then no big deal I guess. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried.

MvPlumlee
09-26-2012, 02:27 AM
So I guess I can already bury my hope for Granger not starting slow for a change.
Let's trade him.

Reading Franks and Pauls comments about Augustin, always reminds of Collison. To me, it reads like Darren almost didn't have any talent to make players around him better. Or perhaps I read it like that, cuz it's my personal opinion :confused:

Will Galen
09-26-2012, 06:17 AM
I was hoping Pendergraph would start pushing for minutes around the team. I'd be happy with JP, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Fez, Lou, and Jeff Foster fighting for backup minutes if it meant Hansbrough was getting fewer minutes. Not a blatant "hate remark", I'm just saying that I hope even Pendergraph can make Hansbrough fight for his playing time.


Jeff Foster's going to spend this year pushing Croshere for minutes. (grin)

Speed
09-26-2012, 07:44 AM
Cover your cheerios...

The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?

Of course everyone is undefeated headed into camp, so the optimism is rampant.

Eleazar
09-26-2012, 08:08 AM
Cover your cheerios...

The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?

Of course everyone is undefeated headed into camp, so the optimism is rampant.

You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.

Sparhawk
09-26-2012, 09:24 AM
You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.

I've always thought he had a decent game. Seems like he could at least be a plus rebounder and defender. He doesn't have much of a mid range game, so he can't stretch the floor...then again, Hans doesn't do anything well except give hard fouls. If Hans can hit that mid range shot at a high %, then he'll certainly have a place in the league for short bursts of minutes.

Sparhawk
09-26-2012, 09:27 AM
Really like what I'm reading/hearing about the Pacers. Just hope all the hard work pays off and we see the results. I really want this bench to not be a weakness. Really want Lance to earn more playing time, cause the talent is certainly there. He could be a huge lift for this team. With Green being the main go to guy off the bench, the offense could stagnate if teams double team Green often. DJ and Lance are gonna have to step up their offensive games.

Trader Joe
09-26-2012, 10:34 AM
I'm glad Lance is going to be at the two. That is all.

imawhat
09-26-2012, 10:46 AM
How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.

Major Cold
09-26-2012, 10:53 AM
You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.
Green- NO HE CLEARLY HAD A BAD SUMMER LEAGUE SO THAT MEANS HE IS USELESS!!!!

J7F
09-26-2012, 12:19 PM
How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.

I guess I kind of took it as he is more toned...

Anthem
09-26-2012, 12:29 PM
The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?
I don't think that's fair. I thought Penderwall shows some solid skills last year. On multiple occasions he'd make the pro-quality move but be unable to finish it. That could be a lack of skill, but it could also be a bad wheel.

A healed knee, plus another year of experience, plus a little more skill, could easily equal a decent backup big man for us. I'm not saying he's a Dwight-killer, but I could see him stealing Tyler's minutes.

Tom White
09-26-2012, 12:50 PM
From the blog - "....after an issue with his left knee, which happened while working out in Los Angeles late in the summer...."

I swear I remember Granger putting ice on his knees while on the bench during games this past season. Seems I recall it happening a lot. I wonder if the "happened while working out in LA" is really a continuation of some problems from the previous season.

Speed
09-26-2012, 12:55 PM
I don't think that's fair. I thought Penderwall shows some solid skills last year. On multiple occasions he'd make the pro-quality move but be unable to finish it. That could be a lack of skill, but it could also be a bad wheel.

A healed knee, plus another year of experience, plus a little more skill, could easily equal a decent backup big man for us. I'm not saying he's a Dwight-killer, but I could see him stealing Tyler's minutes.

Thats probably more fair. Seeing him in nut squad/garbage time last year, I thought he looked, okay, but its so hard to tell. Skill wise in the summer league, Mavunga looked better. Yep, just summer league, but looking bad or invisible in summer league isn't a good thing, especially against that level of talent. Especially when Plumlee looked like he belonged. Its a tough thing to look at, McBob looked all world, so theres that.

Its not a huge deal, other than to say he's vying for minutes seems like a stretch to me. Maybe he's really gotten physically healed and the lightbulb all went on at the same time. Even if Tyler is what we think he is (minus 40% shooting) I would still have trouble seeing Pendegraph getting his minutes.

I'm just skeptical with everything considered that he's a rotation type player on a good team, at this point, hopefully I'm wrong.

Tom White
09-26-2012, 12:57 PM
How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.

Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.

imawhat
09-26-2012, 01:22 PM
I guess I kind of took it as he is more toned...


Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.

Looking at the pic in Speed's avatar, it looks like there's only one direction 'toned' can go, and it ain't smaller.

Sparhawk
09-26-2012, 01:23 PM
So the chances of Granger getting off to yet another slow start just increased.

imbtyler
09-26-2012, 05:40 PM
I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.

I just really hope that this team is as good as it looks on paper. Our bench is definitely much stronger than last season, and a lot (if not all) of our guys will be getting better this year. I would even say that Hansbrough is going to improve, but let's take a quick look at our roster from the end of last season:

Hill/DC/Price
PG/Barbosa/Lance
DG/Dahntay
West/Hans/Pendergraph
Roy/Foster/Lou/Fez

Here is (roughly) what our roster will look like at the start of this season:

Hill/DJA/Gaines/Ahearn
PG/Lance/OJ
DG/GG/Young
West/Hans/Pendergraph
Roy/Mahinmi/Plum/Nevill

Those italicized are training camp pick-ups who may or may not earn a spot on the regular season roster.



Given that Augustin's facilitating and creating skills are far greater than Collison's, that is technical upgrade over last season (otherwise, DC would be more fit playing the 2).
Since we lost AJ Price, the third-string back-up point guard position is open, which is Ahearn's and Gaines' spot to lose. Given this is third-string we're talking about, this change is kind of a 0 in my book.
If Lance improves enough to earn his minutes backing up Paul, and his talent is any indicator, then he should be an upgrade over Barbosa last season (Leandro did well for us, but was streaky).
If Lance doesn't improve enough, Gerald Green will be the first wing off the bench behind PG and Granger. His much more consistent and explosive offense is an upgrade over Dahntay, but his defense has yet to be proven. Regardless, Paul's defense alone could be enough to counter what we lose without having Dahntay.
According to his stats, Sam Young (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngsa01.html#totals::none) would be a valuable second-string (and even starting) wing (G/F) on most other teams in the league (ATL, BKN, CHA, CHI, CLE, DET, HOU, LAL*, MEM, MIL, MIN, NOH, NYK, OKC, ORL, PHX, SAC, TOR, UTA, WAS, from my research). With that said, having Green and Young as the prime back-ups at the 2/3 would be an upgrade compared to Lance and Dahntay.**
It should be noticed that the addition of Mahinmi and Plumlee are the only additions in our frontcourt, having lost Fez, Lou, and Foster. Since Foster retired, and Mahinmi and Plumlee† both have height and skill over Lou and Fez (respectively), I would call these additions an upgrade. Because Lou was Roy's primary back-up, Fez received a grand total of 17 minutes in 3 games played last season. Therefore, directly comparing Mahinmi to Fez would not only be unfair, it would show that Mahinmi himself is a clear upgrade over Fez.


When breaking it down like this, our bench, as it stands, has been majorly upgraded, to the point that even our starting line-up could upgrade pending the seasonal development of some of these players. And even though it goes without mentioning, I am filled with anticipation for this upcoming season. We were #3 in the East last year, and #5 in the league. Some would call that a fluke, or pure luck, but this is our year to prove we belong in the presence of the Eastern giants.

The point I've been trying to make is that we are much better than we were last year, and there is no reason why we can't do much better than we did last year. Though there's a lot of sun shining through my post, there's also a lot of logic.

I believe in the 2012-13 Indiana Pacers, and you should too!
:gopacers:




* Jodie Meeks is listed as Kobe's back-up on Yahoo!'s depth charts. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/lal/depthchart) My statement implies that the teams listed have players in the 2/3 spot who are ≤ Young.

** This is implying that starting players from the mentioned seasons would not be backing up other positions. For example, Hill/PG/DG aren't considered to back-up 2/3/4, since they already start at 1/2/3. Because I'm discussing the bench, my statement stands that the values of non-starting back-up players (Lance, Young, Green, Dahntay, DJA, DC, etc.) are in consideration.

† Given that Plumlee has yet to prove himself on an official NBA court, it's hard to say that he will be an upgrade over Lou. Especially because Lou's contribution last season was far greater than we expected from him. However (I know this is a lot to ask for), if Plumlee mixed his own height and skillset with Lou's hustle, motor, and execution, as well as Hansbrough's fearlessness to get to the line, then we'd be even more upgraded than I imagine.

graphic-er
09-26-2012, 07:50 PM
I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.
.

WE have the same starting line up as last year, the same line up that absolutely melted when Granger got hurt. Until proven otherwise, Danny Granger is the Pacers. Roy Hibbert might have gotten the big contract, but he isn't the number 1 option on this team.

Hicks
09-26-2012, 09:33 PM
It's not like West was suddenly going to be faster. I'm fine with him adding more strength or mass.

Then again, tone could just mean he looks more cut.

mattie
09-26-2012, 09:37 PM
For the record, I'd say Gerald Green, role wise, replaces Barbosa, while Lance is replacing Dahntay Jones. Barbosa was the off the bench scoring threat, and that will also be Gerald Green's role if he can fill it. If Lance can simply play good defense and not be terrible on offense than our two new wing players should be a net positive over the former.

Peck
09-27-2012, 12:47 AM
I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.


Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.

Heisenberg
09-27-2012, 01:20 AM
I just hope if PG does step it up offensively we don't get a bunch of "see! Danny's scoring less and Paul's scoring more! We don't need Danny!" There's only so many buckets to go around, if you want George to get up to 16 points a night or whatever then someone's scoring's going to suffer and it'd probably be Danny. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I just hope people understand that.

rock747
09-27-2012, 02:19 AM
When's the Pacer's media day?

imbtyler
09-27-2012, 04:08 AM
Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.

I wasn't saying that we won't need Granger anymore or anything like that. What I was implying was, as a whole, I would like to see our team be able to function properly without Granger in the line-up. That way, if he goes down for a few games, or his knee starts acting up again, we can be sure that the rest of the team will still be able to pull out a win.

Truthfully, I'm still in the group of people who would prefer to have Paul and Granger playing together. Granger is now the longest-tenured Pacer on the squad. I'm not really an "either/or" guy when it comes to PG and DG. But, if a superstar-less team can win without their (arguably) best player, that's saying a lot for the team. And it's not so much to ask. If any team can do it, I think it's this one.

Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.

spazzxb
09-27-2012, 05:19 AM
Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.

Whatever you just hate his name:-)

McKeyFan
09-27-2012, 07:18 AM
Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
That was a nice overview of the roster in the previous post.

But I thought Ian and Plums were also supposed to play some four. If Hans continues to disappoint, I was hoping one of Ian and Plums, or both, could end up being the backup 4. Particularly, it seems more realistic that Ian might do this. Wasn't that in the discussion when we traded for him?

Come playoff time, when we shorten the roster, this "X man" could be the backup for the 4 and the 5.

Kegboy
09-27-2012, 09:25 AM
Whew. I was worried we weren't going to get the annual "Everybody's super-awesomely awesome" article before the end of September. Cutting it close, Wells.

Eleazar
09-27-2012, 09:31 AM
Personally, if Hansbrough doesn't make huge improvements, I am hoping that Plumlee is capable of beating him out for the backup position before the season even starts.

pacergod2
09-27-2012, 09:43 AM
I think that was being discussed about them playing minutes at the four next to Hibbert, which would make us exceptionally long in the front court. Two seven footers (ok Ian is only 6'11") playing at the same time, with two guys who can defend the four spot, makes us tough defensively. Offensively, I am concerned about these two knocking down the 12 footer. That is a big thing that West does for Hibbert. He consistently knocks down the longer-range shot, which opens up interior space for Hibbert.

As for West toning down, I inevitably gained a lot of weight after my knee surgeries since most aerobic exercise is not allowed and once I slimmed down to a normal weight, it made my mobility SOOOO much better. With West, if he is just as strong and going to play at 5-10 pounds lighter, it will make a huge difference for him. That is what I HOPE Wells meant by this.

The comments made about Pendergraph might be meant to push Hansborough harder. I really like Pendergraph's game. Ever since ASU. I think he has a much better skill set than he is getting credit for, because most people have only seen him in garbage minutes (including the garbage minutes in Summer League). I think he fits our smashmouth basketball as much as Tyler does and he finishes a hell of a lot better around the rim. He is a better leaper and gets up over other bigs much easier. He has solid back to the basket moves, as he was the focal point of ASU's offense in his time there. It might just be that Pendergraph is getting more and more confidence as he refines his game. I really liked the signing at the time and I still do. Pendergraph is strong enough to guard centers, but gives up height to them, which isn't really as much of a concern with the rest of the height our front court has now. I think Pendergraph and Lance will surprise us as they get comfortable with getting more minutes this year.

Most players ice down after games. Soem players focus on certain areas more than others and I am sure Danny putting ice on his knees is him just being proactive with his knees as he gets older.

Tom White
09-27-2012, 11:37 AM
WE have the same starting line up as last year, the same line up that absolutely melted when Granger got hurt. Until proven otherwise, Danny Granger is the Pacers. Roy Hibbert might have gotten the big contract, but he isn't the number 1 option on this team.

Just my opinion here, but I think Hibbert SHOULD be the first option. Of course that hinges on others being able to get the ball to him, in the proper position, and the proper time.

Tom White
09-27-2012, 11:44 AM
Most players ice down after games. Soem players focus on certain areas more than others and I am sure Danny putting ice on his knees is him just being proactive with his knees as he gets older.

I hope you are right about this. My observation of him icing down was DURING the games, when he would get a break on the bench. It seemed they were bothering him for a good amount of the season.

BillS
09-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Just my opinion here, but I think Hibbert SHOULD be the first option. Of course that hinges on others being able to get the ball to him, in the proper position, and the proper time.

A slow center is seldom going to be the true #1 option because he isn't going to get you any offense in transition. He might be your main option in the half court offense, but your wings are still going to have and create more opportunities to score overall.

Hicks
09-27-2012, 11:48 AM
I always assumed half court when I read people say '#1 option'.

Trader Joe
09-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Hibbert cannot be the number 1 option late in games. He just can't be. It is way too hard to get a true center the ball late in games. Even Shaq couldn't do it consistently.

BillS
09-27-2012, 12:07 PM
I always assumed half court when I read people say '#1 option'.

You would think, but then people seem to think the #1 option is the guy that is going to score the most. That can't be the case the way most teams play the game today, since too much of the offense is in transition.

Eleazar
09-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Hibbert should be the number one option not because he will score the most but because running the offense through him will make the whole offense better. We don't really have a wing player like Reggie who you could build the whole offense around, unless one of the young guys just explode this season, but we do have a starting 5 loaded with number 2's, and a number 3. Very few teams can say they have 5 starters who can score, and score well. Right now that is what we have. We have two borderline number one options in Hibbert and Granger, an excellent number 2 option in West, a borderline number 2 in George*, and a solid number 3 option in Hill. Only teams like Miami and the Lakers can claim to have as much or more fire power on offense. To top it all off we only have one weak defender in the group, and by weak I mean average.


*Put George on a team without as many scoring options and I am betting he would average 16 to 18 ppg last season. It isn't that he can't score, only that he doesn't have to score.

Coopdog23
09-27-2012, 12:28 PM
They'll be fine. Still have over a month until the season starts.

ilive4sports
09-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Hibbert should be the number one option not because he will score the most but because running the offense through him will make the whole offense better. We don't really have a wing player like Reggie who you could build the whole offense around, unless one of the young guys just explode this season, but we do have a starting 5 loaded with number 2's, and a number 3. Very few teams can say they have 5 starters who can score, and score well. Right now that is what we have. We have two borderline number one options in Hibbert and Granger, an excellent number 2 option in West, a borderline number 2 in George*, and a solid number 3 option in Hill. Only teams like Miami and the Lakers can claim to have as much or more fire power on offense. To top it all off we only have one weak defender in the group, and by weak I mean average.


*Put George on a team without as many scoring options and I am betting he would average 16 to 18 ppg last season. It isn't that he can't score, only that he doesn't have to score.
Excellent post and I couldn't agree more. The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best. Roy is a great passer from the post and took great strides in finishing at the rim last season and I expect him to be even better this season. The problem is getting Roy the ball. Hopefully we are improved in that area this season. Hill being a full time PG and Augustin coming off the bench inclines me to think we will be. Also Paul George and Danny can easily feed the post if needed as well. We really should be better at hitting West and Hibbert down low.

And we certainly have a high powered starting 5. Which means we need to make good passes and be sure to find the best shot, because all 5 guys are capable of putting up 20 points any night. I hope with a solid and steady starting 5, West and Hill returning for their second year, the chemistry will be even better. Lets not forget we were running a new offense last season with new pieces. Once Hill took over the starting role, our starting 5 really got going at the end of the year. I expect more of that. Also West is 100%.

Each of our starters could average more points if they were playing on a different team. But thats what makes our starting 5 so good. They don't care about individual stats. I'm excited to see what they have in store for us.

BillS
09-27-2012, 02:00 PM
The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best.

Technically doesn't that mean we want Roy to be the play initiator (i.e. the ball comes down court and goes to him then the halfcourt offense starts) as opposed to the number one scoring option (the majority of plays are built for Roy to score first and pass second)?

Eleazar
09-27-2012, 02:32 PM
Technically doesn't that mean we want Roy to be the play initiator (i.e. the ball comes down court and goes to him then the halfcourt offense starts) as opposed to the number one scoring option (the majority of plays are built for Roy to score first and pass second)?

If Roy is in a position to score, he should always look to score first. It is Roy scoring that makes him being the initiator work.

Unclebuck
09-27-2012, 02:38 PM
. The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best. Roy is a great passer from the post and took great strides in finishing at the rim last season and I expect him to be even better this season.

I would argue that the offense is much better when it goes through David West. He's more experienced, slightly better passer, much better ball handler, and has a real ability to make the correct pass.

Actually I think we saw the offense go through West more and more as the season went along, and especially in the playoffs.


Note: I'm not suggesting the offense needs to or even should go through West, but if it has to go through either West or Hibbert, I want it to go through West.

I loved Roy's role in the playoffs. Defender first, offensive player and scorer second. That is what we need from him.

Unclebuck
09-27-2012, 02:39 PM
When's the Pacer's media day?

Monday

Trader Joe
09-27-2012, 02:41 PM
I would argue that the offense is much better when it goes through David West. He's more experienced, slightly better passer, much better ball handler, and has a real ability to make the correct pass.

Actually I think we saw the offense go through West more and more as the season went along, and especially in the playoffs.

Definitely. The problem wasn't West though, it was often the other guy we frequently saw try to play a two man game with him in the playoffs, Barbosa.

Strummer
09-27-2012, 03:01 PM
I think Roy would have to work too hard if we tried to run the offense through him all the time. Sometimes he's just not going to get position. I'd like to see a nice balance to the offense. Plus I don't think Ian has the same skill set offensively as Roy. So everything would have to change when Roy sits down. We need a nice balanced offense.