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Johanvil
09-20-2012, 06:48 PM
What player do you want/expect to be the most improved from last season.Personally,I'd go for Paul George.The talent is undeniably there but he needs to fix his rather awful handling,decision making at times and stop being so passive in some games.Next,I hope for Roy's improvement and make his presence even more felt on the offensive end.

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-20-2012, 06:50 PM
George has the most room for improvement for sure. But I expect to see Hibbert and Hill to be improved. Maybe even West with the lighter schedule and more time recovering from his injury.

And who knows, with the rate at which Green was improving prior to last year, he easily could have improved his shooting more this offseason.

Hypnotiq
09-20-2012, 07:23 PM
Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeejay Augustin.

Major Cold
09-20-2012, 07:26 PM
I am going on a limb here and say Danny will be more proficient and a better defender. You can now attempt to break that limb.

daschysta
09-20-2012, 07:53 PM
Roy will become a bonafide star center next season. Vogel will manage to have plays that can get the ball into him when we need him to have it and he'll have higher usage because of it, he'll also maybe play a minute or two more per game.

16 ppg
10.5 rpg
2.4 apg
2.2 bpg

32 mpg

52% from the field

72 percent from the line.

All Star. All NBA 3rd team.

Heard it here first.


Hopefully George's ball handling pays off, this team is pretty stacked with guys who can score 15+ ppg, but i'll predict-

14.7 ppg
6.5 rpg
3 apg
2 spg
.8 bpg

47% from the field
38 percent from 3
80 percent from the line

2nd team All Defense.handles and was on a bad team he could probably put up 18 ppg in that case, but no way here.


Predicting scoring is tricky here, if he really has improved his

Johanvil
09-20-2012, 08:23 PM
I honestly wanted to mention Tyler,but he was so bad last season that anything remotely decent will be an improvement.

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-20-2012, 08:32 PM
I honestly wanted to mention Tyler,but he was so bad last season that anything remotely decent will be an improvement.

Hopefully Hollinger was right that alot of it was playing next to amundson. Now he will be playing next to Mahinmi.

pwee31
09-20-2012, 09:01 PM
I think Tyler will play better. Most improved...Gerald Green. Seemed to be finding his game late last year in Jersey. Has had a chance to mature...now he has a chance to prove himself

cdash
09-20-2012, 09:06 PM
We all better pray that the answer to this by season's end is an emphatic, resounding "Paul George."

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-20-2012, 09:08 PM
We all better pray that the answer to this by season's end is an emphatic, resounding "Paul George."

Not necessarily. As long as Paul George improves greatly is all that matters. If Hibbert somehow improves even more thats just gravy.

And in regards to Green. If Green becomes the player that he looked capable of becoming when he got drafted. Then the league better watch out.

imawhat
09-20-2012, 09:44 PM
This is a tough question.

I think it'd be best for our team if it was Roy. If Roy's most improved, then we're significantly better and in the most important area.

I think Paul, Lance and Tyler have the most room/capability to be better than they were last season, especially Lance and Tyler.

I have no idea who it will be. Paul seems most logical only because that sort of thing is easiest measured by stat increases and he has the most room for growth. If Lance can stay in the rotation, stay healthy and focused then it's Lance.

More than anything, I hope we have the same player development this year that we had last year.

Rev. Colt
09-20-2012, 09:57 PM
Whoever plays the 1 for us. If it is Hill or Collison, I do not care. I just want this position to pick it up a notch. If it does, it will elevate the whole teams play.

DGPR
09-20-2012, 10:14 PM
I'm predicting a 5-6 ppg improvement for Paul George this coming season. I'm sure he has been putting in the work this offseason, plus he has been hanging around the likes of Lebron and company probably picking their brains in the process to get ideas for improvement.

jeffg-body
09-20-2012, 10:18 PM
I hope it is Tyler, but I wouldn't count Paul George out or Lance. My dark horse will be Hill.

sportfireman
09-20-2012, 11:16 PM
Lance

Strummer
09-20-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm going with Tyler. He's had all summer to work on learning West's counter moves.

I have a theory that one of the reasons we signed David West is because he has a grounded offense. The same kind of offense that Tyler could develop. They were hoping that Tyler could learn that offense. He spent the season observing it. This was his summer to learn it.

btw, my answer was influenced by a Conrad Brunner article (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/player-review-2012-tyler-hansbrough) from earlier this summer.


"Tyler needs an offseason," Coach Frank Vogel said. "He's a guy I'd like to work with more than any player on our team this summer. With the motor that he has, if he ever develops the game, the skill-set, the moves and the counter-moves someone like David West has, really the sky's the limit for what he can do.

"Since he's been drafted he hasn't had an offseason to work with the coaching staff whether it's injuries or the lockout or whatever. He has a tremendous area for growth in terms of developing his skill set and his moves."

PGisthefuture
09-20-2012, 11:45 PM
As for the guys left from last year's squad I think Roy will make the biggest improvement. I know he'll make it his job to show that he deserves that contract. For the new guys, I think DJ will have a nice year and average some nice assist numbers. Gerald Green is my next option.

Hicks
09-20-2012, 11:47 PM
I'd love for it to be Tyler Hansbrough, but that doesn't seem very likely. I'm going to go with Paul George. In any case, it's more important for Paul to improve than Tyler.

Johanvil
09-21-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm predicting a 5-6 ppg improvement for Paul George this coming season. I'm sure he has been putting in the work this offseason, plus he has been hanging around the likes of Lebron and company probably picking their brains in the process to get ideas for improvement.

That would mean 17-18 ppg.Although that would be great and welcomed of course,is something not easy to accomplish especially when you are in a team that has many scorers and not one go to guy.

DGPR
09-21-2012, 08:40 AM
That would mean 17-18 ppg.Although that would be great and welcomed of course,is something not easy to accomplish especially when you are in a team that has many scorers and not one go to guy.

If Paul's handles have gotten better than last year, I think the team will look to go to him as much as if not more than Granger when they need scoring.

Major Cold
09-21-2012, 08:48 AM
If Paul's handles have gotten better than last year, I think the team will look to go to him as much as if not more than Granger when they need scoring.

I disagree. PG is one of the worst mid-range starting SG in the league.

Trader Joe
09-21-2012, 09:04 AM
Why would Tyler suddenly improve now? The guy has been the same exact player since he was 21.

Ace E.Anderson
09-21-2012, 10:30 AM
Why would Tyler suddenly improve now? The guy has been the same exact player since he was 21.

I think people just want to see Tyler be smarter and more consistent. Improvement doesnt alwaus mean the advancement/developmemt of a new skill set.

For example; If he becomes money with that 15 ft J like he was two seasons ago, that alone would mark improvement.

Kid Minneapolis
09-21-2012, 10:41 AM
PG has a load of talent, but...... he has soooooooooooooooo much to work on, offensively. The reason I say that is because he is capable of doing anything; but his offensive game is pretty low-dimensional, as in, there's not a lot of skill or diversity in his skills. He mostly seems to be a free-ranger, winging it, and trying to find opportunities off other people's actions. He uses almost exclusively his athleticism, and lacks a lot of acquired skills, or moves. He's the opposite of David West, who is not athletic at all, but has a wide range of skills in the post and mid-range that he can use to his advantage. If PG could learn the low and mid-rang skills of David West and combine that with his own athleticism and range and defensive ability, you're talking an elite player. His game is mostly in 3 tracks --- the fast break, the 3 point line, and finishing around the rim. His game in between the rim and the 3-point line is damn near non-existent. But he has the ability to be very good. One thing he could be a beast at is posting up or even the high post. At 6'9" or 6'10", whatever you want to believe, there is no SG in the league that could guard him down there. It requires building a skillset down in the post, it's not something you can just wing, which is mostly how he plays. He just wings it. He needs some set moves, that he can string together randomly to create scoring opportunities.

Having better handles certainly helps that. But he seriously needs to work on his moves. There is no limit to what this kid can do, he just needs to work hard.

BRushWithDeath
09-21-2012, 10:53 AM
For example; If he becomes money with that 15 ft J like he was two seasons ago, that alone would mark improvement.

His effective FG% on jump shots was .408 two seasons ago.

Obviously significantly better than last year's .326 but not exactly "money".

He shot it a ton both years so you remember more makes two seasons ago but the rate of makes to misses was still really poor.

Eleazar
09-21-2012, 10:59 AM
I'd love for it to be Tyler Hansbrough, but that doesn't seem very likely. I'm going to go with Paul George. In any case, it's more important for Paul to improve than Tyler.

Don't underestimate what an improved Hansbrough could do for this team. Not having a post player who could consistently score off the bench was the biggest problem with the bench last season, and if Tyler was able to score consistently we would have had as good of a bench as everyone thought we did going into the season. With that kind of a bench we most likely would have been competing for the number 1 or 2 seed instead of striving for the number 3.

MillerTime
09-21-2012, 11:18 AM
West.

He playing amazing during the end of the season and playoffs. Now hes finally healthy again, and has a full training camp - I can see him having a great season

pacergod2
09-21-2012, 11:38 AM
I guess my thing for Tyler is this.... he goes back to NC in the off-seasons and so does David West. Why aren't they working out together? They literally live a short distance apart on the outskirts of Raleigh, NC. Maybe they do and I don't know. But there is no way David West doesn't teach Tyler these things if they are working out together. Why hasn't Tyler made obvious changes to his game in the off-seasons? Is he too busy playing against old NC players that are no longer in the league? Is he too busy pimping UNC co-eds? (I would be too, but I am not a professional basketball player). I just don't understand why we haven't seen Tyler as one of the first people back to training camp. It seems like he doesn't even like his teammates or something.

I think Hill will have the biggest imapct for us with improvement. He is money from deep, but if he improves his handles and our playbook improves, he should be the one that literally can improve our whole offense. I think ball movement is the single biggest thing we can improve on as a team and it all starts with Hill. I think Hill will have the biggest impact on our team with his improvement, but not necessarily the biggest improvement overall.

I think Hibbert's conditioning is a major area of improvement as well. A few more minutes per game from him would do wonders for us. We also have a better big rotation that won't make it as glaring of a problem when he goes out either. That is a key improvement area for me as well. For Hibbert, I think him having consistent confirdence would be his biggest area of improvement. Dominate Big Fella!

David West I just want to see improvement in his mobility. I think his early season issues had a lot to do with his lack of mobility. I think if he improved his flexibility and continued to work on his leg and hip strength, he will have a monster season for us and be much better defensively.

Granger just needs to be better at picking his spots on offense, and becoming a better defender. The biggest thing he could do for us next year is to bring the defensive intensity and efficiency from the SF position that will improve the team defense overall. Hibbert is a cornerstone on the block, but if we can get a more evenly spread scoring effort from everybody, it will allow Granger to be that much better on the defensive end. Granger and Paul could be a top three defensive pairing on the wing next year. That would be as important to our team as any scoring load he could add. He needs to work out of the post more as well, which I have been saying for years. The dude needs to add that as part of his arsenal and has yet to do it. I think it is because he is scared of going inside the three point line. :devil:

George has pretty much been covered and I think he will be in the running for the MIP award.

Our bench overall needs to be an improvement. We need more cohesiveness out of this group and there can't be such a drop off when our starters leave the floor. I think we improved our bench significantly this off-season. There needs to be a little less mass subs by Vogel next year as well. I think if our starters play a few more minutes with a couple of the reserves our eight man rotation come playoff time won't be so undermanned. I would like to see less of the five-on five-off type of substitutions. I'd like to see more of the eight or nine man rotations used throughout a game where it is four starters and a sub or three starters and two subs and we don't really see much of having four or five subs on the floor together. I really like the job Vogel is doing and really appreciated his substitution patterns last year, but I just didn't feel like our second unit took advantage of other teams enough by going with all five reserves at once. I can't wait to see what our bench is. The player I am most excited to see what they bring is Orlando Johnson. I think the kid could develop into a solid rotation player for us if he can earn the playing time with his defense.

Vogel, I think is a very good coach. I think the playbook improvement and general philosophy of how we get the ball into the post will be something he does address. I think his game management will be better, although that is not necessarily a weakness IMO. I really think as this guy gets comfortable, he will be a very good coach long-term.

The biggest improvement I think we can see as a franchise would be ATTENDANCE! This year we better be in the top third for attendance.

xIndyFan
09-21-2012, 11:45 AM
The guy I expect to have the biggest improvement will be either tyler or lance. Both kinda had down years last year and can improve their games with some minor fixes.

The guy I would like to be the Pacers MIP is Paul George. He is the guy with the highest ceiling. If he improves the most, he gives the Pacers another really good player to go with Danny, Roy and David. Best case scenario, Paul George becomes good enough to be a year in and year out all star.

PacersHomer
09-21-2012, 11:50 AM
I hope it's Paul but Hill would be my bet. I think we'll see him be more of a point guard this year than he was last year.

ChicagoJ
09-21-2012, 02:15 PM
Hill, because I understand that he's going to focus on just one of the guard positions. He's been pretty good as a combo guard playing PG, but I expect him to be a better PG when he focuses on that position.

LG33
09-21-2012, 02:19 PM
Why would Tyler suddenly improve now? The guy has been the same exact player since he was 21.

I see what you're saying, and I'd normally agree with you - a player that hasn't shown progress in six seasons should not be counted on to improve in his seventh. However, where I would disagree in Tyler's specific case, is that he hasn't really had to improve until now. His accomplishments at UNC made him one of the best college players of all-time and, after a vertigo-shortened rookie year, he had a pretty decent sophomore season. After this past season, he needs to change and improve his game to continue an NBA career. Will he do it? I wouldn't bet on it, but I could see it as a possibility.

Slick Pinkham
09-21-2012, 02:20 PM
I thought it might be Tyler, but then I ran the idea through my calculator.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/TI86_Calculator_DivByZero.jpg/220px-TI86_Calculator_DivByZero.jpg

ChicagoJ
09-21-2012, 03:25 PM
I thought it might be Tyler, but then I ran the idea through my calculator.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/TI86_Calculator_DivByZero.jpg/220px-TI86_Calculator_DivByZero.jpg


:nerd: Love it.

Strummer
09-21-2012, 03:53 PM
People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.

pacergod2
09-21-2012, 04:01 PM
People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.

I never said he doesn't work hard, but rather, he might be working hard toward a misguided direction. It's like working your butt off with no end goal in mind. Why hasn't he started shooting the ball with more arc? Has nobody told him that his jumper is too flat? Ican't imagine they haven't. Has no one told him or shown him how he needs to play effectively given his skill set against better competition than pick-up games that he can dominate? How does that help him? Why does David West have a similar skill set and be 100 times more effective than Tyler? Does Tyler not work on a floater? It would be a perfect shot for him to perfect working down from the high post. He struggles by getting too far under the basket and looking up to the trees that he can't shoot over. I really like Tyler. I love his hustle. I just don't understand how he hasn't worked on the most obvious things that could help his game out. I'm a freaking novice and I see it.

Kid Minneapolis
09-21-2012, 04:02 PM
I hope for Tyler to have a breakout too. What I saw last year sort of scared me however... it wasn't a lack of trying or hard work. It was an almost myopic intent of shooting an inaccurate jumper or going 1-on-4 in the paint and very little offensive cohesion, as in kicking the ball out after a rebound or any time really. It was more of a mental thing. He's gotta change his mentality and focus on making the proper play, and also he needs to rebound the ball way better. He's got a good physique for rebounding, and just doesn't utilize it 100%. His focus last year was just not where it should be.

This coming from a big Hansbrough fan, hell he's my avatar.

ChicagoJ
09-21-2012, 05:01 PM
People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.

One more year of West and I think he's going to be stuck to everything in Pacerland like glue, and I mean that in a good way. At this point, his toughness is too important and is currently not duplicated any where else on the roster. So of that money you just spent, you didn't spend any of it on toughness. I'd rather keep David and let all three of those guys walk (I don't really think we'd have to let Paul George walk anyway.)

wintermute
09-21-2012, 05:05 PM
His effective FG% on jump shots was .408 two seasons ago.

Obviously significantly better than last year's .326 but not exactly "money".

He shot it a ton both years so you remember more makes two seasons ago but the rate of makes to misses was still really poor.

He did shoot a respectable 43% from midrange (16' to 23') in 2010-11, which placed him 2nd on the team behind Dahntay Jones (who shot 49% from that region, but on a small sample size). 3rd on the team if you count West's 47% which he put up in NO.

Data from this old (but still good) 8p9s post: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2011/12/getting-into-the-season-pacer-hot-and-cold-spots/

Too bad they haven't done a similar post for 2011-12 yet. Hollinger's report mentioned that Roy lead the league in shooting % in the 3' to 15' area (with 47.9%, up from 40.7% the year before), so that would be nice to see.

cgg
09-21-2012, 05:39 PM
He did shoot a respectable 43% from midrange (16' to 23') in 2010-11, which placed him 2nd on the team behind Dahntay Jones (who shot 49% from that region, but on a small sample size). 3rd on the team if you count West's 47% which he put up in NO.

Data from this old (but still good) 8p9s post: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2011/12/getting-into-the-season-pacer-hot-and-cold-spots/

Too bad they haven't done a similar post for 2011-12 yet. Hollinger's report mentioned that Roy lead the league in shooting % in the 3' to 15' area (with 47.9%, up from 40.7% the year before), so that would be nice to see.

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=IND&type=pg&posi=%&yr=2012&gp=0&mins=0

Richard_Skull
09-21-2012, 06:02 PM
There seems to be two kinds of answers here. One where a player improve the most from last year and another where a players improvement is more important to the team.
So, for the player who's going to improve the most relative to last year, I'm going Tyler.
For the players whose improvement will be most important to the team, I'm going PG.

Strummer
09-21-2012, 06:05 PM
One more year of West and I think he's going to be stuck to everything in Pacerland like glue, and I mean that in a good way. At this point, his toughness is too important and is currently not duplicated any where else on the roster. So of that money you just spent, you didn't spend any of it on toughness. I'd rather keep David and let all three of those guys walk (I don't really think we'd have to let Paul George walk anyway.)

I like West but at 32 years old I think he's plan B. I'm sure he's going to be motivated to play well this year to earn his last big contract. But I'm going to be rooting for Tyler and Miles to make him expendable.

Pacer Fan
09-21-2012, 06:14 PM
If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the Pacers are in serious trouble!

MvPlumlee
09-22-2012, 01:57 AM
If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the opponent is in serious trouble!

MI though

hackashaq
09-22-2012, 04:55 AM
I think Danny will be back to the ASG game next year. He should've been there this year, but it's hard to do it as a forward if your stats aren't super big or efficient.

It takes these coach (*cough* intern *cough*) voters more time and especially playoff runs to take notice of improved defense, toughness, leadership and such. See: Aldridge and ZBO.

I think this year Danny's efficiency will be up a little with better backups / pass first point playing some minutes next to him + added experience for starter teammates.
Which will make him an All Star again.

LucasRL13
09-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Paul George
And Paul George will be an All Star this year, believe in me....

beast23
09-22-2012, 11:55 AM
I like West but at 32 years old I think he's plan B. I'm sure he's going to be motivated to play well this year to earn his last big contract. But I'm going to be rooting for Tyler and Miles to make him expendable.
I think the original thought was to get West for 2 years to give Tyler the time needed for improvement.

But with Tyler having a 4.2M qualifying offer coming up and possible 5M or more expected for his next contract, I just don't see him able to provide enough improvement to warrant that kind of contract. Personally, I see him traded before the end of the year.

I think the player likely to improve the most is Hill now that he is concentrating on PG only. I agree with what was said earlier about our offense having the best chance for a marked improvement relying on a similar improvement from Hill. Of course, we are all hoping Paul makes big strides.

I believe West will show improvement physically and with his leadership, that will make him very difficult to part with, regardless of the cost.

Next summer should prove to be even more interesting than this summer.

AugustinGrangerHill
09-22-2012, 01:42 PM
I think D.J. Augustin will be the most improved from his time in Charlotte to here, I think with better players around him, even on our bench, he will be the most improved. 2nd place I would give it to Paul George

PaceBalls
09-22-2012, 02:37 PM
I don't know about DJ Augustine. He brings nice passing, but he is possibly the worst defensive PG in the game. I think Frank will have a hard time keeping him on the court. The drop off from George Hill defensively will be very noticeable and there will be many problems on who can actually play with DJ because of his man driving right past him straight to the hoop. That will really put Roy and DWest in a tough spot.

Back to the OT I think we will see George Hill as MIP on the Pacers. He has the most room to grow into the PG role.

Pacer Fan
09-22-2012, 03:53 PM
If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the opponent is in serious trouble!

MI though


The reason I say the Pacers are in trouble if Hans is the MIP is for several reasons.

Paul should have a lot of improvement and from our side looking in, he should show the most since he has the most potential.

Hill, without a doubt should have a big year as he will jell with the team in the PG position.

Hibbert should show improvement in many different area's for many different reasons. (no need to go there).

West should have a lot of improvement and could see him get back to an All Star state since he should be stronger and mentally trust his knee.

Green should have his best season as a pro and we all know he has tremendous abilities and he seems to be maturing and figuring out how to play in this league. A full season with the Pacers should catapult him into the playoffs.

I'll stop here with these players and just say...

If Hans is MIP this year among this team when Hans has shown absolutely no sign of improvement and actually declined from 2010 to 2011 then what will the other player be like. West would have to be injured or just totally sux for Hans to get enough minutes to even have the opportunity of showing enough improvement to win a MIP. If, Hans just plays a backup role and does improve, then he sure shouldn't deserve MIP over starters or it means the starters didn't improve enough and that will sux. I just don't see Hans as the MIP unless someone sprinkles magic dust on him!

Added:
And I'm a huge Hans fan, I would love to see him just play out of his mind and go into a full beast mode with the ability to see his teammates for a dish and to see him drain his 15-18 ft jumper at 50%...Damn, I'd be freakin out!!!

MvPlumlee
09-22-2012, 11:24 PM
I understand what u mean, but there are 2 ways to look at it.

The probability that one of the players you mentioned will improve more than a bit, isn't small. If Hans can do better, it would imply that he would be a lot better than last year.
I don't care how terrible he was last year, if he is a lot better this year, our opponents have a problem. In terms of general fit, he is a better match with Hibbert IMO