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pacergod2
09-19-2012, 10:15 AM
OK, I know... I know... the reaction on here is probably going to be that I get lynched shortly after noon today for even proposing this.

Should we sign Kenyon Martin to a one year deal for our $2.5M Cap Exception and fill our 15th roster spot?

He says he won't sign for the Veteran's Minimum, which would be for $1.35M. He is as tough of a player as there is in the league. He brings an edge to the team and the locker room, which can sometimes be overbearing, granted. He can play against PFs or Cs and is a definite upgrade from Tyler. He fits the mold of the smashmouth style we want for our team and he's actually a very good teammate from what I've heard. He stands up for his teammates on the court for sure. He is a competitor and definitely plays to help his team win. He rebounds the hell out of the ball and plays very good defense. He is tenacious and can guard three positions. He guarded Kobe his last year in Denver, so four really. He can hit the mid range pretty effectively and finish around the rim. He might be a good older player to have with the younger leadership we have, as long as he doesn't try to overshadow Granger, West, and Hibbert. I don't know if he would be willing to be a rotation big, but I don't think that is a problem for him as long as we are competitive. He could play with any of our other bigs, especially West, Hibbert, and Ian.

It makes sense as long as he would be a positive contributor in the locker room. Plus, we would keep him away from teams like Boston, Miami, NY, Chicago, and Brooklyn who we will be competing against in the playoffs.

Unclebuck
09-19-2012, 10:39 AM
If he is healthy enough to play and wants to come here - then of course we should sign him.

I don't think he has ever been a problem within locker rooms - Not that I know of at least

Heisenberg
09-19-2012, 10:42 AM
Of course we should. But we clearly have no interest in using our room exception.

billbradley
09-19-2012, 10:49 AM
Look at the 49 second mark from this clip. K Mart runs over and does something weird to Tyler...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cz_XPlQKBng" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Unclebuck
09-19-2012, 10:59 AM
Look at the 49 second mark from this clip. K Mart runs over and does something weird to Tyler...

<IFRAME height=315 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cz_XPlQKBng" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Wonder if Tyler has. he's always getting picked on

naptownmenace
09-19-2012, 11:00 AM
I definitely think this team could use another veteran big, so I'm down. I think they should sign KMart and Sam Young and call it an offseason but I doubt they will.

xIndyFan
09-19-2012, 11:28 AM
Put me down for a no to kmart.

couple of reasons nothing to do with his locker room presence, but with his on-court value.

first, if this guy could play, then someone would be looking to pick him up. The teams that want him are teams desperate for bigs. and willing to pay only the vet's min. If anyone really thought this guy could play, they'd find a way to scrape together enough cap space to pay him a couple mill. no one has ----> no one thinks he can help their team -----> can't play.

second, kmart is undersized for a big, isn't he? and the word i keep reading about him is 'phony-tough'. A guy that acts tough, but really isn't. He just doesn't fit the needs the pacers have. Pacers need big, tough, athletic guys.

plus the exception can be used pretty much anytime. It is a good idea to wait and see what position, if any, needs to be strengthened. It would be a waste of cap space to carry an extra big if it turns out lance, OJ et al can't play the 2. Keeping the room exception for late in the season seems a better use than adding a guy the pacers don't really need right now.

Sparhawk
09-19-2012, 12:22 PM
Please, yes, sign Kenyon.

pacergod2
09-19-2012, 12:33 PM
Put me down for a no to kmart.

couple of reasons nothing to do with his locker room presence, but with his on-court value.

first, if this guy could play, then someone would be looking to pick him up. The teams that want him are teams desperate for bigs. and willing to pay only the vet's min. If anyone really thought this guy could play, they'd find a way to scrape together enough cap space to pay him a couple mill. no one has ----> no one thinks he can help their team -----> can't play.

second, kmart is undersized for a big, isn't he? and the word i keep reading about him is 'phony-tough'. A guy that acts tough, but really isn't. He just doesn't fit the needs the pacers have. Pacers need big, tough, athletic guys.

plus the exception can be used pretty much anytime. It is a good idea to wait and see what position, if any, needs to be strengthened. It would be a waste of cap space to carry an extra big if it turns out lance, OJ et al can't play the 2. Keeping the room exception for late in the season seems a better use than adding a guy the pacers don't really need right now.

A few points of contention:

The teams that could pay Kenyon more are not teams that really have a chance of winning anything. Who is under the cap that can offer him more than the $2.5M we could and is actually a contender? By my count, NO ONE.

Undersized? He is 6'9" and his arms are about as big around as my thighs. He is anything but "phony-tough". "Pacers need big, tough, athletic guys".... even at 34, Kenyon Martin fills your description to a T.

As for our positional depth, I would much rather carry Kenyon Martin than any of the guards we brought in to training camp. I'd love to keep Sam Young for sure, who also fits the bill of strong, tough, defensive players. Plus, on the wing, we have Danny, PG, Green, Young, Lance, and OJ on the roster. That's six people who are more than warm bodies. As for PGs Hill and Augustin won't surrender any minutes to anyone else, unless its garbage time. And even then Lance is a capable third PG. We have no need for an extra guard/wing with the players we have. It is why I shake my head a little bit at the Ahearn and Gaines signings. I think we need the extra big if we are trying to play smashmouth. If that is our mantra, bigger is typically better in that instance.

MvPlumlee
09-19-2012, 02:57 PM
I would have loved Kenyon Martin playing in a Pacers uniform, but at this moment of time, I don't think he is the right player for our team.
He is turning 35, relying a lot on athleticism and he barely brings any offense.

Hans and Miles are our future at PF and I rather see them battling it out to get those backup PF minutes.

billbradley
09-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Hans and Miles are our future at PF and I rather see them battling it out to get those backup PF minutes.

I think I have hit rock bottom as far as my faith in Tyler.

BRushWithDeath
09-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Hans and Miles are our future at PF and I rather see them battling it out to get those backup PF minutes.

If this is the case, we're screwed.

Speed
09-19-2012, 03:38 PM
I said this in another discussion about him. I love his oncourt prescence, guys aren't messing with him. His defense is physcial and he imposes his physical style. My fear is its just not on-court, that hes really a scary dude, in real life. I'm not sure thats condusive to what you want to develop here. Not passing judgement, but I know if a guy is a guy you think might really like kill you, well that might impact your focus. Maybe I'm out of line with this.

For some reason I remember reading about his parties, I think it was in Denver, where there were some real deal bad guys. Again, I could be wrong.

MvPlumlee
09-19-2012, 04:20 PM
I think I have hit rock bottom as far as my faith in Tyler.

If this is the case, we're screwed.
Not me, I'm confident.

pogi
09-19-2012, 06:00 PM
No. No. No. This guy is a big-mouth knucklehead. He'll be the guy that influences the younger guys into thinking/acting like thugs. Plus, I'm willing to bet he'll say "Start me, or don't even think about calling my agent."

There are things he's said and done over the years that makes me think 'spoiled wanna-be thug'.

Sollozzo
09-19-2012, 06:08 PM
I think I have hit rock bottom as far as my faith in Tyler.

Agreed, and I'm someone who used to be really high on him. I had large expectations for him going into last season. Everything that Naptown Seth said for three or so years turned out to be spot on last year.

In hindsight, I wish we could go back to the summer of 2011 and trade him. His value will likely never be higher.

Kemo
09-19-2012, 06:17 PM
Look at the 49 second mark from this clip. K Mart runs over and does something weird to Tyler...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cz_XPlQKBng" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

haha I remember that.... Apparently Tyler was 2 quarts low ... LMMFAO

Speed
09-19-2012, 06:26 PM
Griffin did that on purpose, i'm sure we all agree, he feel soooo hard he had to try to round house Tyler.

PR07
09-20-2012, 12:46 AM
I'd be fine with it, but my guess is the Pacers' brass wants to sink or swim with Tyler as the backup PF.

CableKC
09-20-2012, 12:59 AM
There is no way that Kenyon Martin isn't going to come to Indy unless he's the 1st Big Man off the bench. My guess is that he'll end up on one of the SuperStar Teams like NY.

billbradley
09-20-2012, 08:51 AM
Agreed, and I'm someone who used to be really high on him. I had large expectations for him going into last season. Everything that Naptown Seth said for three or so years turned out to be spot on last year.

In hindsight, I wish we could go back to the summer of 2011 and trade him. His value will likely never be higher.

Agree, we should of traded him.

Not to hijack the KMart thread, but it's really sad that I would rather have an old, washed up, malcontent backup over Tyler. Last preseason I thought Psycho T, the guy who held his own as a starter, was going to ABUSE second units off the bench. I'm sure it's been shown many times, but where is the guy that played this game...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LyQPtmy5FxQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I know we have theories that he's been figured out around the league and I hope that isn't the case since IMO there is almost zero chance we pick up a backup PF at this point. I'm hoping Mahini next to Tyler elevates his game at least back to average and Lou was just a bad fit. Or maybe I'm praying that's the case.

Pacer Fan
09-20-2012, 08:52 AM
Heck, let's just sign Kmart and AI and have a good old show.

Not!

BlueNGold
09-20-2012, 08:58 PM
I think with Tyler we have a player who could bull his way into the paint in the NCAA's...and it worked. Otherwise, there was never much more to his game. He had to reinvent himself...and he actually has made a little progress.

I still believe if he develops a good midrange shot, focuses on rebounding and learns to pass the ball some...he would be a solid backup.

Phree Refill
09-21-2012, 05:50 AM
Agree, we should of traded him.

Not to hijack the KMart thread, but it's really sad that I would rather have an old, washed up, malcontent backup over Tyler. Last preseason I thought Psycho T, the guy who held his own as a starter, was going to ABUSE second units off the bench. I'm sure it's been shown many times, but where is the guy that played this game...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LyQPtmy5FxQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

I know we have theories that he's been figured out around the league and I hope that isn't the case since IMO there is almost zero chance we pick up a backup PF at this point. I'm hoping Mahini next to Tyler elevates his game at least back to average and Lou was just a bad fit. Or maybe I'm praying that's the case.


A little off topic but I think of this play pretty often. Not because it was an impressive steal and dunk by Tyler, but I remember thinking "If he just makes this free throw we might just sneak out of here with a W and shock the league." Guess what. He missed it. We went on to score just 2 more points the rest of that game. Not Tyler's fault we lost the game by any means but its one of those types of plays from each season that I always look back and wonder "what if?" I honestly think that one missed free throw would have given us that little extra cushion to pull that game out. Absolutely pointless to waste time thinking about it now but I always can't help but wonder how some of our playoff series might have ended differently had we just made that one extra little play here or there.

Romsey31
09-21-2012, 07:37 AM
Agree, we should of traded him.

Not to hijack the KMart thread, but it's really sad that I would rather have an old, washed up, malcontent backup over Tyler. Last preseason I thought Psycho T, the guy who held his own as a starter, was going to ABUSE second units off the bench. I'm sure it's been shown many times, but where is the guy that played this game...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LyQPtmy5FxQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I know we have theories that he's been figured out around the league and I hope that isn't the case since IMO there is almost zero chance we pick up a backup PF at this point. I'm hoping Mahini next to Tyler elevates his game at least back to average and Lou was just a bad fit. Or maybe I'm praying that's the case.

cant believe we lost that game :censored:

DangerGranger3pointranger
09-21-2012, 04:32 PM
Even if this seems like a good deal, it will probably never happen

spreedom
09-21-2012, 07:28 PM
I think with Tyler we have a player who could bull his way into the paint in the NCAA's...and it worked. Otherwise, there was never much more to his game. He had to reinvent himself...and he actually has made a little progress.

I still believe if he develops a good midrange shot, focuses on rebounding and learns to pass the ball some...he would be a solid backup.


So basically, if he gets a lot better at the stuff he really sucks at?