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View Full Version : Darren Collison: "I can't tell you how much of a chip I have on my shoulder"



billbradley
09-17-2012, 10:46 AM
Didn't see posted...

http://hoopshype.com/videos/videos/darren-collison-i-cant-tell-you-how-much-of-a-chip-i-have-on-my-shoulder

Hicks
09-17-2012, 10:55 AM
I wish him well.

Sollozzo
09-17-2012, 10:55 AM
We are going to regret trading him.

Unclebuck
09-17-2012, 11:01 AM
We are going to regret trading him.

He's a nice guy and a good NBA backup point guard. Nothing more

Major Cold
09-17-2012, 11:06 AM
In talking about he, Mayo, and Jones.

"I hope we can bring success to this team"

http://www.sneakerfiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/what-the-dallas-mavericks-wore-sneakers-to-win-2011-nba-championship.jpg

PR07
09-17-2012, 11:13 AM
He's a nice guy and a good NBA backup point guard. Nothing more

This.

Plus, I don't see him getting much better than he is right now due to some of his physical limitations.

Natston
09-17-2012, 11:33 AM
I am thrilled we got DJ because we couldn't go on carrying three quasi-SG point guards.

pacergod2
09-17-2012, 11:36 AM
I have always said, and stand by this, that he is the best backup PG in the NBA. Longer term he is going to lose his quickness and his skill set won't be able to carry him. He is a small PG, who gets taken advantage of by bigger, better PGs. His quickness is a great advantage, but quickness being your biggest attribute is the one thing that fades the quickest. Ironic, eh? Size, shooting, ball-handling, decision-making, those are not things that fade. While, he is a solid ball handler and decent shooter, the other aspects are not strengths of his. He gets lost in the trees way too often, which to me is terrible decision making. His size kills him defensively, so he is above average at one end of the floor and below average at the other, which screams "Back-Up!". He thrives against lesser competition and is only mediocre against starters, typically. He does well against guys that his speed hurts, like Lowry. Lowry outmuscles him like crazy though. His speed is good against lesser ball handlers. Rondo and most other bigger PGs are able to pass right over him which offsets his speed defensively. And he doesn't do a great job of contesting shots, not because he doesn't put himself in position to, but because he can't get a hand up high enough to effect the shooter. For as good as he is, he has so many limitations, that paying him starter money is tragic to a franchise. No team should pay a backup PG $5+. Especially on a long-term deal, where you will pay him the most when his best attiribute is the worst in a fourth or fifth year.

IMO, I think our front office made the right move. They did right by him by sending him somewhere that he should have a starting job and who is a mature enough team that he will be a good fit for them. And we got a legitimate backup PF/C for a backup PG and a backup wing. To me that is a win, regardless of how some people value Collison.

MillerTime
09-17-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm much happier having Hill start at PG and having DJ as his back up.

We'll get a lot more consistency from Hill than we did from Collison. IMO Collison had nothing more than half a good season (while on NO).

His size is really going to hurt him

ChicagoJ
09-17-2012, 11:46 AM
He's better than Travis Best, offensively. He could be as good as Travis defensively when he plays defense.

He's better than TJ Ford.

Yep, that's pretty much the definintion of a backup PG.

I had higher hopes for him, but in retrospect I shouldn't have.

billbradley
09-17-2012, 11:49 AM
I have always said, and stand by this, that he is the best backup PG in the NBA.

I think I just realized DC reminds me of Bobby Jackson.

Ace E.Anderson
09-17-2012, 01:15 PM
He's better than Travis Best, offensively. He could be as good as Travis defensively when he plays defense.

He's better than TJ Ford.

Yep, that's pretty much the definintion of a backup PG.

I had higher hopes for him, but in retrospect I shouldn't have.

That's sort of how I feel too. When we traded for him, I envisioned a potential all-star who would be able to carry the load as our cornerstone at the PG position. I think a lot of us on this board over-valued him when he was traded here.

And that's not to say he isn't any good. He's an above average PG who has a good mid-range game and wont turn the ball over too much. In all honesty, a team like Dallas (that has Dirk to run pick and roll with all day) is probably a bit of a better fit than the post heavy Pacers.

focused444
09-17-2012, 01:22 PM
my favorite thing about collison was in the playoffs when we utilized his quickness & let him put full court pressure on the opposing pg. He is built for that imo & it sucks we couldn't do that more with him during the regular season. He also seemed to embrace big moments which is another great quality. What killed me about him was his lack of vision, it's just unacceptable at his position. Good kid, & I wish him well (just not against us)

Natston
09-17-2012, 01:26 PM
The fact that we only gave up Murphy for him should have been all we needed to know about DC's limitations and question marks...

Eleazar
09-17-2012, 01:31 PM
The fact that we only gave up Murphy for him should have been all we needed to know about DC's limitations and question marks...

That isn't quite fair to him or the situation. We were able to get him for so little is three fold. The most important it was a 3 way trade, so the Hornets weren't giving up Collison for Murphy, they were giving up Collison for whoever they got in return. Secondly, Collison was playing behind possibly the best PG in the game right now. Finally+ Murphy was a large expiring contract which upped his value.

I was never that high on Collison, but come on you don't need to create revisionist history here.

Unclebuck
09-17-2012, 01:40 PM
He's better than Travis Best, offensively. He could be as good as Travis defensively when he plays defense.



Offensively? Yeah OK, I can agree with you - although I might be able to make a decent case in Best's favor. But defensively? No way not even close. Best was very strong, quick and an excellent defender. Collision is none of those things.

vnzla81
09-17-2012, 01:46 PM
That's sort of how I feel too. When we traded for him, I envisioned a potential all-star who would be able to carry the load as our cornerstone at the PG position. I think a lot of us on this board over-valued him when he was traded here.

And that's not to say he isn't any good. He's an above average PG who has a good mid-range game and wont turn the ball over too much. In all honesty, a team like Dallas (that has Dirk to run pick and roll with all day) is probably a bit of a better fit than the post heavy Pacers.

You are right about that.

Unclebuck
09-17-2012, 02:09 PM
I think I just realized DC reminds me of Bobby Jackson.


Bobby Jackson was a better defender IMO.

billbradley
09-17-2012, 02:14 PM
Bobby Jackson was a better defender IMO.

Agreed. I think Jackson was better all around, but similar in ways they attack.

Sollozzo
09-17-2012, 02:42 PM
Is DJ Augistin really any better? I haven't watched many Bobcats games over the years, so I really don't know the answer

At least Collison has two years worth of chemistry with our players.

Kid Minneapolis
09-17-2012, 02:50 PM
He never seized his opportunity here, as many chances as he was given. I guess part of that could have been the system, but at some point in time your abilities should rise above the system. I think we all were waiting for more from him, because he certainly showed promise, but too many tmes he proved to be inconsistent in his play and at times one-dimensional.

He's a nice guy, I wish him well, hopefully he decides to seize the opportunity in Dallas. Otherwise he'll get out-played by someone on that roster, also eventually and do the same thing when he's traded again.

Trophy
09-17-2012, 02:53 PM
I get the impression he's talking about replacing Jason Kidd. Nothing directed towards the Pacers.

billbradley
09-17-2012, 02:56 PM
Is DJ Augistin really any better? I haven't watched many Bobcats games over the years, so I really don't know the answer

At least Collison has two years worth of chemistry with our players.

I think Augistin is slightly better, but more of what the Pacers need. From what I've seen sitting pretty close for a few Bobcats games, even if Augustin isn't playing well he plays with a lot of intensity. I loved DC, but he would get down on himself and kind of check himself out of the game IMO. You can tell in the interview here that DC does not want to be a backup. Augustin could of looked for a starting role, but chose to backup Hill and be on a winner.

Nuntius
09-17-2012, 03:10 PM
I wish him well and I hope he proves his doubters wrong.

But as I've said earlier I like the trade.

Natston
09-17-2012, 03:16 PM
That isn't quite fair to him or the situation. We were able to get him for so little is three fold. The most important it was a 3 way trade, so the Hornets weren't giving up Collison for Murphy, they were giving up Collison for whoever they got in return. Secondly, Collison was playing behind possibly the best PG in the game right now. Finally+ Murphy was a large expiring contract which upped his value.

I was never that high on Collison, but come on you don't need to create revisionist history here.

I never said that they were traded straight up for each other, you don't need to be condescending here. I don't always flesh out my posts but my point is that the trade was glossed over in all actuality we unloaded an expiring contract for a second year point guard who was picked late in the first round. I liked DC but he clearly had his limitations and wasn't Chris Paul Jr, but that was unfortunately the hype.

Ace E.Anderson
09-17-2012, 03:21 PM
Is DJ Augistin really any better? I haven't watched many Bobcats games over the years, so I really don't know the answer

At least Collison has two years worth of chemistry with our players.

Augustin is a different PG in that he has above average vision and passing skills. He "runs" a teams offense really well, and is a very good open court passer (alley-oops, passes to cutters, etc) He's also more likely to shoot from behind the arc as opposed to try and go inside with the trees.

DC is more athletic and probably a better full court defender (when he decides to do so). He's always shot a better % because he knows how to work to get off that mid range 18ft J he likes to shoot.

All in all, they're about the same, just with different skill-sets. (Though I like Augustin's game better)

pacergod2
09-17-2012, 03:37 PM
I think Augustin is a more appropriate fit. I think that is the big difference between the two for us. Augustin is an exceptional passer. He will pick up his defensive intensity here I am sure. I also think that our team is capable of hiding his defensive flaws much better than the Bobcats were. I don't know that I would say that one is so much better than the other, but its more that Augustin is better for us. I think that Augustin also will be happier as a backup here than DC would have been going forward, so any potential locker room issues will be avoided. Augustin from what I know is a great guy to be around. I don't know him, but that is the sense I get from the things I have heard. So we don't lose out on character by going away from DC.

I really hope that our new guys mesh well together. This second unit I am looking forward to see what they can do...

Augustin
Young/Stephenson
Green
Hansborough
Mahinmi

I hope that each and every one of these guys comes in having worked on their games this off-season. I'm really interested to see what Mahinmi and Hansborough have done. I would love to see this second unit defensively, assuming that Young gets the nod over Stephenson.

Stephenson, well, is always the wild card. I just hope to see that his game is more mature than last year. Hopeful for :-o

ChicagoJ
09-17-2012, 03:47 PM
Offensively? Yeah OK, I can agree with you - although I might be able to make a decent case in Best's favor. But defensively? No way not even close. Best was very strong, quick and an excellent defender. Collision is none of those things.

Against the dribble, sure? But -I- could shoot over Travis. He was too small to successfully and consistently defend anything but the other smallest players in the league.

PGisthefuture
09-17-2012, 03:50 PM
One think I'll miss about DC is his heart. He just wasn't a good fit for this team. I hope he has a good career as a Maverick.

McKeyFan
09-17-2012, 04:00 PM
He's also got a couple of chips in front of his eyes.

Ace E.Anderson
09-17-2012, 04:11 PM
Against the dribble, sure? But -I- could shoot over Travis. He was too small to successfully and consistently defend anything but the other smallest players in the league.

Travis was one of those PG's that disrupted the dribbler--he was very good at constant ball pressure. Sure you could shoot over him, but it was hard to get into a position to get your shot off because of his defensive pressure.

.....now if only he didn't waste 18 seconds of the shot clock dribbling lol

Sookie
09-17-2012, 04:46 PM
I'm much happier having Hill start at PG and having DJ as his back up.

We'll get a lot more consistency from Hill than we did from Collison. IMO Collison had nothing more than half a good season (while on NO).

His size is really going to hurt him

Really depends on what kind of offense Frank wants to finally get to initiate. Hill's best assets are 1. Defense, 2. Scoring, 3. Intelligence. He's not a point guard. We run the triangle, he'll be fine. We play a "ball stays in the point guard's hands" type of offense, and Hill's going to be in trouble.

I also think people forget that there is something between backup point guard and all star point guard. Is DC Rondo, Chris Paul, or Nash? No. But he's better than Jimmer, Jose, Jennings, Chalmers too. He's solidly a middle of the road starting point guard. You could do better and you could do worse.

Hicks
09-17-2012, 05:48 PM
He's also got a couple of chips in front of his eyes.

In front, or along the outside corners of his eyes... like horse blinders?

Noodle
09-17-2012, 06:44 PM
In front, or along the outside corners of his eyes... like horse blinders?

:laugh:

ChicagoJ
09-17-2012, 07:37 PM
Travis was one of those PG's that disrupted the dribbler--he was very good at constant ball pressure. Sure you could shoot over him, but it was hard to get into a position to get your shot off because of his defensive pressure.

.....now if only he didn't waste 18 seconds of the shot clock dribbling lol

One-on-one defense, yes. But if you were being guarded by Travis, and made a pass then made a cut and got the ball back then Travis was exposed defensively and you were in a good position to score. His off the ball/ team defense was as much of a liability as his on the ball defense was a strength. Not that he didn't try, but he didn't have a NBA body or NBA size and got exposed.

Pacer Fan
09-17-2012, 08:18 PM
With his shooting ability, speed and having Kaman, Brand, Dirk, Marion, Mayo...he will average 15 PPG... 9 APG... 5 RPG... 2 SPG ...

Well, he does have a chip on his shoulder now, he was just cruisin before yea know!

If you watch the video real close you'll see that he grew at least an 1" during that interview, I swear, I saw it!

Pacerized
09-17-2012, 10:06 PM
I'm a big fan of a traditional pg so DC did frustrate me at times. He was however a solid player for us and he handled things with class when he was demoted while out on an injury. Most players would have handled that much worse. I expect his #'s to really improve this year on that team. Cuban fleeced us on that trade but we'll look worse for it by the end of the year even though we will have the better record.
I wish DC nothing but the best and I'll be rooting for him this year.

Ace E.Anderson
09-17-2012, 10:13 PM
I'm a big fan of a traditional pg so DC did frustrate me at times. He was however a solid player for us and he handled things with class when he was demoted while out on an injury. Most players would have handled that much worse. I expect his #'s to really improve this year on that team. Cuban fleeced us on that trade but we'll look worse for it by the end of the year even though we will have the better record.
I wish DC nothing but the best and I'll be rooting for him this year.

I actually don't think his numbers will improve too much. He prob won't get taller or develop better court vision all of a sudden. With Dirk, Kaman, Mayo, Marion, he'll still be a number 3 or 4 option offensively.

vnzla81
09-17-2012, 10:27 PM
By the way I don't think DC can see the ship he has on his shoulder, his vision was never that good.

Hicks
09-17-2012, 10:29 PM
It's been so long since we've had a true PG I don't even remember what that looks/feels like.

Natston
09-18-2012, 12:26 AM
Report: Dallas doctors are set to remove a chip from Collison's shoulder and to rehab his voicebox...

Heisenberg
09-18-2012, 02:22 AM
Good for DC, sincerely, he seems like a good dude. But whatever, no one's about to be scared of Darren Collison.


It's been so long since we've had a true PG I don't even remember what that looks/feels like.
Honestly, I think Jackson sort of spoiled us. I know he did me, watching him growing up he pretty much became my definition of a "true PG." But when you look around the league, how many "true PGs" are there, in that classic sense? Nash still is, Kidd's walking on borrowed time now but he still is. Obviously Rondo. Rubio might be eventually, he's the only young guy I think fits that stereotype. I'm sure there're guys I'm forgetting, but the role of PGs is just different now. That's not good or bad, it's just different. And I think we all need to sort of realize that, the "true PG" is pretty much a dying breed so we should stop griping about not having one, not many teams do.

Roaming Gnome
09-18-2012, 05:32 AM
I thought "Good Jamaal" was fitting the bill pretty well until he had problems keeping his head screwed on strait...

Heisenberg
09-18-2012, 06:38 AM
I thought "Good Jamaal" was fitting the bill pretty well until he had problems keeping his head screwed on strait...
Who? Just...depressing to think about.

Seriously though, Tinsley showed every ability to really be the next Mark Jackson. That rookie year was gorgeous. Then, well, we all know. Tinsley's going to go down as an all time what coulda been for me. I'm still waiting to see a guy that can handle the ball better.

Coopdog23
09-18-2012, 08:33 AM
He has every right to say that. Pacers traded him away like he was nothing. Hope he has a great season in Dallas

billbradley
09-18-2012, 08:45 AM
He has every right to say that. Pacers traded him away like he was nothing. Hope he has a great season in Dallas

The Pacers traded DC away like he wanted a starting gig, and that's what they got him.

naptownmenace
09-18-2012, 09:21 AM
I think the Pacers missed the boat when they didn't re-sign Jerrett Jack. I feel that it was a bigger mistake than trading Collison. However, I don't think it was necessary to trade him and thought that they could get a decent backup Center without trading him. He was on the last year of his rookie contract and they could've just let him walk at the end of the season.

I wish him the best. He was a player that I liked enjoyed watching. If he can develop a quicker release on his jumper, he could be a top-notch scorer at the PG position.

Ace E.Anderson
09-18-2012, 10:04 AM
Good for DC, sincerely, he seems like a good dude. But whatever, no one's about to be scared of Darren Collison.


Honestly, I think Jackson sort of spoiled us. I know he did me, watching him growing up he pretty much became my definition of a "true PG." But when you look around the league, how many "true PGs" are there, in that classic sense? Nash still is, Kidd's walking on borrowed time now but he still is. Obviously Rondo. Rubio might be eventually, he's the only young guy I think fits that stereotype. I'm sure there're guys I'm forgetting, but the role of PGs is just different now. That's not good or bad, it's just different. And I think we all need to sort of realize that, the "true PG" is pretty much a dying breed so we should stop griping about not having one, not many teams do.

I've been saying this for a while. PG's nowadays are called upon to score a lot more, and to simply "initiate" the offense, as opposed to having the primary objective of creating for others first and scoring 2nd. Guys like CP3 and D Williams are pretty close to being "true PG" but even they are looked at to be aggressive scorers for their teams.

BillS
09-18-2012, 10:17 AM
DC's biggest problem on defense is screens and picks. I swear he could have gone to Carmel and stopped at a drive-thru for fries he went around some of them so wide and slow.

ChicagoJ
09-18-2012, 10:41 AM
DC's biggest problem on defense is screens and picks. I swear he could have gone to Carmel and stopped at a drive-thru for fries he went around some of them so wide and slow.

:lol:

Trader Joe
09-18-2012, 10:54 AM
No offense, but DC can conjure up all the motivation he likes, but he got exactly what he wanted, a starting job on a likely playoff team. It's not like we traded him to Charlotte. So he can try to act like there is something here that has created a chip on his shoulder, but I frankly don't see what it is.

Wish him all the luck in the world, but these words seem pretty empty to me.

Naptown_Seth
09-18-2012, 11:12 AM
I think Augistin is slightly better, but more of what the Pacers need. From what I've seen sitting pretty close for a few Bobcats games, even if Augustin isn't playing well he plays with a lot of intensity. I loved DC, but he would get down on himself and kind of check himself out of the game IMO. You can tell in the interview here that DC does not want to be a backup. Augustin could of looked for a starting role, but chose to backup Hill and be on a winner.
I agree. For the Magic game where I had the next-to-bench seats there was one point when they come over at a timeout, DC sat down next to me and when I looked over at him he had the most dejected look you could imagine. I felt kind of sorry for him, especially given JOB's coaching (just days before he was dumped).

And I've been close for some DJ games as well and to me he's deceptively quick, quicker than I thought coming out of Texas. And he uses that quickness and change of dribble speeds to very effectively penetrate and create off of PnRs. Charlotte spent A LOT of time using DJ and Kemba as their attack points, basically letting every play just start with them beating their man and then letting it go from there.

I liked DJ's mentality coming out but thought of him as an undersized Bayless which to me meant he wouldn't be an advantage point in most NBA games. But he's proven to be craftier in the NBA than I thought he would.

No defense, sure, but I think he'll be a definite improvement in the quality and style of his offense.



And really who didn't enjoy DC's time here. We weren't crying for his departure. We just aren't devastated by it either. I don't think he has any need to feel dismissed by the Indy fanbase, and maybe he doesn't.

Trader Joe
09-18-2012, 11:14 AM
Augustin was the only guy on those Bobcat teams that played every night. Maybe Kemba too, but Augustin doesn't back down from anyone.

BornReady
09-19-2012, 01:47 AM
Just gonna throw this out there but every bball plays with a chip on their shoulder. Or at least claims to.

Nuntius
09-19-2012, 06:10 AM
We just aren't devastated by it either.

I was a bit. Same with Dahntay :(

I'm happy we got Ian though :)

pacergod2
09-19-2012, 09:57 AM
I was a bit. Same with Dahntay :(

I'm happy we got Ian though :)

Ian will be better for us long-term than either Collison or DJones would have been. You'll be smiling longer this way.

Nuntius
09-19-2012, 01:04 PM
Ian will be better for us long-term than either Collison or DJones would have been. You'll be smiling longer this way.

I certainly hope so :D

docpaul
09-19-2012, 05:53 PM
If DJones chose to turn down his player option year, we wouldn't have traded Collison like we did. This was mostly a combination of moving on from two players not in our long term plans, making some cap space for a big, and wanting to do right by Collison in "rewarding" him for being a good team-first guy. He clearly wasn't going to start for us next season, but I still remained befuddled by the size and length of GHill's contract.

To me, the Dallas trade was a small, early example of a "win now" move. An outlier from the norm of the past 5 years.

We would have been in an analagous position with DC as we were with JJack... at least we got some form of trade "value" out of him, even though we treated him essentially as an expiring contract.

Also disappointed in the short length of Augustine's contract.. would have loved to see a 3/3 deal as we have with Green. He clearly thinks he's worth more.

pogi
09-19-2012, 06:05 PM
The Pacers traded DC away like he wanted a starting gig, and that's what they got him.

Exactly! He pretty much made it clear, that whomever team he's on, HE WANTS TO START. He may of accepted his role last year after losing his starting position; but, I'm willing to bet that halfway through this season he'd ask for a trade if he wasn't starting.

Sookie
09-19-2012, 06:37 PM
And really who didn't enjoy DC's time here. We weren't crying for his departure. We just aren't devastated by it either. I don't think he has any need to feel dismissed by the Indy fanbase, and maybe he doesn't.

DC was probably the most criticized player (for his play) on this board for a majority of the time he was here. And although some of it was deserved...it went way overboard.

He was/is a better player than most give him credit for. He just wasn't the All Star that some seemed to have thought he would be, that and the fact that he played point guard made him an easy target.

I hope he does well. I feel really bad for him considering the assistant coach situation :P I think anytime a player loses his starting job because of an injury, there's going to be a "chip on his shoulder." But I do hope he doesn't feel "entitled" to a starting spot. Because as much as I've gone on record in saying he's a solid, middle of the road starter, he could be beat out at that position (Although unlikely in Dallas) fairly.

NapTonius Monk
09-19-2012, 07:03 PM
DC was probably the most criticized player (for his play) on this board for a majority of the time he was here. More than Danny?

BlueNGold
09-19-2012, 09:42 PM
Offensively? Yeah OK, I can agree with you - although I might be able to make a decent case in Best's favor. But defensively? No way not even close. Best was very strong, quick and an excellent defender. Collision is none of those things.

Wow, isn't that the truth. When you compare DC to Travis Best, I am certain that Travis starts over him just on the basis of excellent defense. He was also quite effective offensively

PR07
09-20-2012, 12:45 AM
That's sort of how I feel too. When we traded for him, I envisioned a potential all-star who would be able to carry the load as our cornerstone at the PG position. I think a lot of us on this board over-valued him when he was traded here.

And that's not to say he isn't any good. He's an above average PG who has a good mid-range game and wont turn the ball over too much. In all honesty, a team like Dallas (that has Dirk to run pick and roll with all day) is probably a bit of a better fit than the post heavy Pacers.

He gave us hope, something that we hadn't had at the PG for a long time. Yes, we probably overvalued him, but justifiably so.