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Pacerized
09-15-2012, 07:11 PM
For the sake of discussion.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19951273/nba-offseason-power-rankings-the-big-market-tango


The offseason's over, players and GM's are finishing up their vacations and there's starting to be a buzz about the new season. So who helped their teams the most during the summer? Who didn't do much of anything?

These power rankings are not a reflection of team strength. We'll have those for you the Tuesday before the season opener. These rankings reflect only the events since Game 5 of the NBA Finals. They do reflect whether the team needed to improve or not. The Thunder and Heat get points for already being at a point where they needed very little. From there, it's based off the draft, trades, and free agency. Here's how the offseasons of all 30 teams stack up.

1. Los Angeles Lakers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/LAL/los-angeles-lakers): What, are you surprised? Look, only the Lakers could get two-time MVP, lead-the-league-in-assist-rate-for-players-playing-30-minutes-per-game, legendary point guard Steve Nash (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6715/steve-nash)... and it wasn't the best offseason move they made. They landed one of the league's best passers and an elite shooter, then turned around and acquired the league's best defensive force and center. It's the Lakers' world, we're all just living in it. And if these rankings were based on overall roster? The Lakers might still be here.

2. Brooklyn Nets (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/BKN/brooklyn-nets): Re-signed Deron Williams (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555987/deron-williams). Found him a running mate. The money doesn't matter because the owner is loaded. They brought back Brook Lopez (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622544/brook-lopez) and kept Gerald Wallace (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/240315/gerald-wallace), so the trade of their lottery pick wasn't worthless. They added to the bench and moved into the offices in Brooklyn. So yeah, they did allright. The Nets may not win a championship, but they moved way up the ladder in a single offseason.

3. Philadelphia 76ers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/PHI/philadelphia-76ers): The Sixers are like that friend who was living a safe, comfortable life as an accountant, nice two-bedroom townhouse in the burbs, driving a Volvo. Then one day he ups and starts his own business. Maybe he'll fail, but at least he tried. That's the Sixers, who swung for Andrew Bynum (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555938/andrew-bynum). Their other moves weren't even really good overall. But Bynum was a gamechanger and a bold move. They get points for that.

4. Denver Nuggets (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/DEN/denver-nuggets): Took a player who struggled last season in a bigger role, especially defensively, and a good role player with a lot of money left, and moved him for an All-Star that's one of the best complimentary players in the league. Nabbed a versatile wing in Evan Fournier (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992791/evan-fournier) and retained JaVale McGee (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622547/javale-mcgee) for a good but not outrageous contract. Huge summer for the Nuggets who didn't put their future on the table.

5. Miami Heat (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/MIA/miami-heat): Being already awesome is a bonus, but really this is how the Heat managed to make one big move and get that much better. Ray Allen (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6457/ray-allen) is such a phenomenal fit for what they do and what they need. The Heat needed every three-pointer Shane Battier (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/240265/shane-battier) made in the playoffs, but that's not something they can rely on. Allen givs them just such a weapon and for a good price, too. Sticking it to their rivals in Beantown warrants extra points as well.

6. Boston Celtics (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/BOS/boston-celtics): It wasn't the remodel we expected, and it wasn't a total win-now summer either. It was somewhere in-between. Boston replaced Allen with Jason Terry (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/139097/jason-terry), upping their trash talk quotient if nothing else. They ensured Kevin Garnett (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6581/kevin-garnett) would retire a Celtic, and made a gamble on Jeff Green (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231873/jeff-green). Even if that doesn't work out, they snagged Courtney Lee (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622542/courtney-lee) and drafted two promising rookies who each have problems, but also huge upside. Boston walked a delicate wire this offseason and seem primed for another strong season.

7. New Orleans Hornets (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/NO/new-orleans-hornets): They could have signed Stephon Marbury and it would have been fine after they drafted Anthony Davis (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992786/anthony-davis). Luckily for them, they didn't, they drafted Austin Rivers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992822/austin-rivers), who may love to shoot like Marbury but is... you know, not... that. (Though Marbury was fantastic at Rivers' age, too.) The Hornets would have had a great offseason with just the draft. Instead they brought in Ryan Anderson (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622525/ryan-anderson) on a solid deal and snagged Robin Lopez (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622543/robin-lopez). They didn't get a point guard, but it was still a phenomenal summer for the Hornets.

8. Los Angeles Clippers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/LAC/los-angeles-clippers) : Well, they didn't lose Blake Griffin (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1685213/blake-griffin), which is a nice start. They added Jamal Crawford (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/196316/jamal-crawford) as the veteran shooter/four-point scoring machine, and retained Billups. Snagging Grant Hill (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6615/grant-hill) is a nice pickup that's great for karma if nothing else, and Ronny Turiaf (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555979/ronny-turiaf) can play the Reggie Evans (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/372464/reggie-evans) roll well enough and actually defend. Good offseason for the Clippers, taken down mostly by how much better their roommates got.

9. Oklahoma City Thunder (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/OKC/oklahoma-city-thunder) : Re-signed Serge Ibaka (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622540/serge-ibaka) on a bargain. Kevin Durant (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231866/kevin-durant) and Russell Westbrook (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622555/russell-westbrook) got better. Drafted Perry Jones (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992802/perry-jones) III on a steal late in the first-round. What else do you want? The NBA title? Well, that's going to have to wait.

10. Dallas Mavericks (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/DAL/dallas-mavericks): They're docked twenty places for whiffing on Deron Williams and then Steve Nash. But the Mavericks acquired Darren Collison (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1685203/darren-collison), O.J. Mayo (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622546/oj-mayo), Elton Brand (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/139052/elton-brand) and Chris Kaman (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/400556/chris-kaman). That's a fine offseason, and it kept their options open for the future. They're going to be a weird team, but for one built on the fly on the backs of a lot of plan C's and D's, it's pretty impressive.

11. Memphis Grizzlies (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/MEM/memphis-grizzlies): Losing O.J. Mayo takes away some points, but the way that the Grizzlies managed to bolster their backcourt depth while retaining the same in the frontcourt makes them a better team overall.

12. Atlanta Hawks (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/ATL/atlanta-hawks) : Boldly went where so many are afraid to go, back to the drawing board. Liquidated the roster's biggest contract, erased the Marvin Williams (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555989/marvin-williams) mistake, mercifully, and set themselves up for the future while tossing Jeff Teague (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1685224/jeff-teague) the reins. Bold and beautiful.

13. Indiana Pacers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/IND/indiana-pacers): Dropping Collison hurts, and the draft wasn't great. They did keep Hibbert by matching his offer from Portland, but that's not enough to carry them forward. They got no worse, nor better.

14. Houston Rockets (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/HOU/houston-rockets): Swung and missed on yet another superstar. Will spend an unbelievable amount of money on Jeremy Lin (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1758395/jeremy-lin) and Omer Asik (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622527/omer-asik) in three years. But they put together a fun, quirky lineup that can be dimsantled and reconfigured at a moment's notice.

15. Toronto Raptors (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/TOR/toronto-raptors): I would have nausea if I were a Raps fan, just from the emotional swings this offseason. Giving Landry Fields (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1755226/landry-fields) that contract is "quitting the fanbase" worthy, but getting Kyle Lowry (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1113164/kyle-lowry) is "get a logo based on a movie from 20 years ago tattooed on me" territory. They add Jonas Valanciunas (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1831124/jonas-valanciunas) who didn't excel in the Olympics but will still give them the ability to work in space.

16. New York Knicks (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/NY/new-york-knicks): Oh, hey, Raymond Felton (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555943/raymond-felton)! Marcus Camby (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6505/marcus-camby)! Jason Kidd (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6652/jason-kidd)! Kurt Thomas (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/6822/kurt-thomas)! J.R. Smith (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/498313/jr-smith) on the cheap! Yeah, none of it matters because they let Lin walk and that looks crazy for that franchise. Maybe the team was in a no-win position with Lin, but that doesn't alter the result.

17. Washington Wizards (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/WAS/washington-wizards): The era of silliness is officially over, and the Wizards are now a veteran team with a young leader and a star rookie shooter. It's all on Wall and Beal, now.

18. Minnesota Timberwolves (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/MIN/minnesota-timberwolves): Chase Budinger (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1685202/chase-budinger) and Alexey Shved (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/2009748/alexey-shved) are the bigger-name additions, but Dante Cunningham (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1685248/dante-cunningham) might make as much of an impact. Wolves got rid of some issues and improved with replacements. Oh, and they landed Andrei Kirilenko and Brandon Roy. The Wolves are primed to go forward.

19. Milwaukee Bucks (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/MIL/milwaukee-bucks): Nabbing John Henson (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992795/john-henson) looked awful at first, but after Summer League, it looks like drafting Larry Sanders (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1755189/larry-sanders)/signing Drew Gooden (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/307830/drew-gooden)/trading for Ekpe Udoh (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1755191/ekpe-udoh) was awful. Ersan Ilyasova (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555957/ersan-ilyasova)'s contract is a steal.

20. Golden State Warriors (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/GS/golden-state-warriors): Harrison Barnes (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992781/harrison-barnes) fills their need at wing and the roster is now a solid eight-deep. Now we'll find out what Mark Jackson can do with it.

21. Portland Trail Blazers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/POR/portland-trail-blazers): Not much they could do about the Pacers matching the offer for Roy Hibbert (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622538/roy-hibbert), but still a disappointment not to land him. But a terrific draft puts them in a great position going forward.

22. Charlotte Bobcats (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/CHA/charlotte-bobcats): Ben Gordon (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/498284/ben-gordon) is a huge talent upgrade for them, and even though they didn't get Davis, they landed a great wing and future elite defender in Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992805/michael-kiddgilchrist). Ramon Sessions (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231896/ramon-sessions) is at least a decent replacement for D.J. Augustin (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622492/dj-augustin), and they didn't hannd out any insane contracts. It's a long haul, but the Bobcats took a step forward this summer.

23. Phoenix Suns (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/PHO/phoenix-suns): Anytime you can pay $6 million a year to a guy who Rick Adelman couldn't get through to and pick up the tab on Luis Scola (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/307857/luis-scola) after a year he really started to show his age, and then splurge on Goran Dragic (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1622530/goran-dragic), banking on his ability to mesh with Marcin Gortat (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/555948/marcin-gortat) to develop a deadly combination... you know how this joke goes.

24. Utah Jazz (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/UTA/utah-jazz): Mo Williams (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/400581/mo-williams) is an upgrade on Devin Harris (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/498285/devin-harris) and the financial component is nice as well. An otherwise quiet summer leads into a big year for the Jazz.

25. Sacramento Kings (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/SAC/sacramento-kings): Hopefully Thomas Robinson (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992823/thomas-robinson) will come out better than he looked in Summer League. Aaron Brooks (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231858/aaron-brooks), yet another point guard, joins the team.

26. Detroit Pistons (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/DET/detroit-pistons): Andre Drummond (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992788/andre-drummond) was the biggest gamble in the draft, and that's after Dion Waiters (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/1992834/dion-waiters) went fourth overall. Flipping Ben Gordon for Corey Magette signals a move towards clearing the books with eyes on the trade deadline and the summer.

27. Chicago Bulls (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/CHI/chicago-bulls): Mailed it in and gave the fans Kirk Hinrich (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/players/playerpage/400550/kirk-hinrich) to ease the pain.

28. Cleveland Cavaliers (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/CLE/cleveland-cavaliers): Putting an awful lot of pressure on Dion Waiters to make the big jump in his rookie season. He was their only real upgrade over last season's team.

29. Orlando Magic (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/ORL/orlando-magic): Ranking hazy, try again later.

30. San Antonio Spurs (http://www.pacersdigest.com/nba/teams/page/SA/san-antonio-spurs) : (Crickets.) This is more of an "NA" than it is anything. It's not that the Spurs did anything bad. They just didn't do anything, period. How do you judge them against other teams when they made no significant moves?

PGisthefuture
09-15-2012, 07:18 PM
I think our moves are being very underrated.

PR07
09-15-2012, 07:20 PM
I think that's a bit low, we should be in the Top 10.

It's also not fair to say that this team didn't get better, they'll improve simply because they're a young team and guys will take some steps forward with their respective games.

Pacerized
09-15-2012, 07:23 PM
I think that's a bit low, we should be in the Top 10.

It's also not fair to say that this team didn't get better, they'll improve simply because they're a young team and guys will take some steps forward with their respective games.

I agree with your statement that we'll grow from within. However, the talent we brought in is overall no better then the talent we lost and that's a real crime considering the money our F.O. had to work with if they managed things right.

vnzla81
09-15-2012, 07:39 PM
I agree with your statement that we'll grow from within. However, the talent we brought in is overall no better then the talent we lost and that's a real crime considering the money our F.O. had to work with if they managed things right.

Exactly.

PGisthefuture
09-15-2012, 07:42 PM
I agree with your statement that we'll grow from within. However, the talent we brought in is overall no better then the talent we lost and that's a real crime considering the money our F.O. had to work with if they managed things right.

DJ Augustin will be a better facilitator than DC in my opinion, if not there won't be much of a drop off in talent there. Gerald Green and Sam Young combined are definitely an upgrade from Dahntay. Mahinmi is a better center than Amundson. Who knows what kind of player Orlando Johnson will be, Lance might actually be ready to contribute regularly. Barbosa was good and all, but his performance in the playoffs was just about horrendous. We also added another big body in Plumlee who has got to be better than Fesenko... I guess I might be being optimistic here, but I think we had some nice moves overall.

xBulletproof
09-15-2012, 07:58 PM
I'm not quite sure how we're not better. Gerald Green would have been our best bench player the way he played last year. Mahinmi is better than Amundson, and the only place on the bench that I think could be a wash is Augustin/Collison.

Our starters should be better with West a year removed from surgery, George, Hill, and Hibbert all a year older and more mature.

Guess I must just be missing something. :shrug:

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-15-2012, 08:12 PM
The Heat are 5th, sorta a joke right there

Pacerized
09-15-2012, 09:11 PM
I'm not quite sure how we're not better. Gerald Green would have been our best bench player the way he played last year. Mahinmi is better than Amundson, and the only place on the bench that I think could be a wash is Augustin/Collison.
Our starters should be better with West a year removed from surgery, George, Hill, and Hibbert all a year older and more mature.
Guess I must just be missing something. :shrug:

While I agree with a lot of what you say, you leave out Barbosa who won some games for us last year in spite of his playoff performance.
I'd say it is a wash between DC and Augustin with DC having just a slight edge overall. Ian should be an upgrade over Lou although a disapointment for a 4 year contract. Barbosa and Jones are much better overall then Green and the deep bench players we brought in.
At best this is a wash as the article states, we're no better, no worse.
The thing is it's not like we had nothing to work with other then the MLE. We should be a lot better and if the offseason were properly managed we would be.
Plug in Scola or Kaman for any of these players and we're a lot better.

Isaac
09-15-2012, 09:49 PM
This has to be a joke. It reads like it was written by a six year old and the top three are LA, Brooklyn and the Sixers. The Hornets are ranked ahead of OKC. Even Bleacher Report usually produces better than this.

EDIT: Didn't really realize this was only a rating of the offseason. I guess it isn't quite as ridiculous.

Ransom
09-15-2012, 10:41 PM
Meh, it's preseason polls. We have to put them out and argue over them but at the end of the day no one knows much of anything. Honestly this entire season for me may break down to A: if Dwayne Wade starts to deteriorate, and B: if having a training camp and a full season is enough time for Vogel to get our guards ready to get the ball to our big men against Miami Heat playoff perimeter defense.

Miller_time04
09-15-2012, 10:46 PM
LOL Hawks ahead of us? Man I dont agree with this at all. We are at least top 8-10

Pacerized
09-15-2012, 11:30 PM
As I read it, the ranking is just a grade for what a team did compared to what it needed to do. It must not take into account what they had to work with.
I don't like the Lakers and I'm not saying they'll be the best team but they did have the best off season. If you take into account the fact they only had the mini MLE to work with then it's not even close. I don't think that Atlanta should be ahead of us but if available cap space were factored in we'd be lower then 13th.

CableKC
09-15-2012, 11:40 PM
I don't get how they can dock the Spurs for being dead last in this poll for doing nothing and then gave the Thunder the #9 spot for extending Ibaka ( duh, like that wasn't going to happen since he's a RFA ) while drafting a Player that dropped for medical reasons. The Thunder have the same roster that they had before....just like the Spurs.

PR07
09-16-2012, 01:48 AM
I agree with your statement that we'll grow from within. However, the talent we brought in is overall no better then the talent we lost and that's a real crime considering the money our F.O. had to work with if they managed things right.

I'm not so sure. Gerald Green probably has more talent and upside than anyone on our bench last season not named Lance Stephenson. While players like Collison, Dahntay Jones, Barbosa, and Amundson were all solid role players in their own right, I don't see any of them getting much better. They've all leveled out to what they will be more or less. I think guys like Mahinmi and Green still have some room to improve and can, and Augustin may have just needed a change of scenery to take another step forward.

TMJ31
09-16-2012, 03:08 AM
Gerald Green and DJ Augustin don't even get MENTIONED in our blurb?

Lol, ok...

xBulletproof
09-16-2012, 08:39 AM
While I agree with a lot of what you say, you leave out Barbosa who won some games for us last year in spite of his playoff performance.
I'd say it is a wash between DC and Augustin with DC having just a slight edge overall. Ian should be an upgrade over Lou although a disapointment for a 4 year contract. Barbosa and Jones are much better overall then Green and the deep bench players we brought in.
At best this is a wash as the article states, we're no better, no worse.
The thing is it's not like we had nothing to work with other then the MLE. We should be a lot better and if the offseason were properly managed we would be.
Plug in Scola or Kaman for any of these players and we're a lot better.

The way Gerald Green played last year he was better than Barbosa. I'm not forgetting him at all. The question is will Green play that way again.

As far as Kaman goes, he wasn't going to come here to be a backup. It was Hibbert or Kaman, not both. I wish we had gotten Scola as well but we are awfully close to the luxury tax are even with the modest moves we made. I don't think we had as much room as people want to think. Then you also have to consider the Pacers expect Paul George to improve a lot and in 2 years to get a big payday. You have to plan for that to avoid luxury tax as well.

As it stands we are only 5 million or so from the luxury tax and probably need that room to fill out the roster. If we did make the big move people were hoping for we wouldn't be under the tax. Which was never a possibility.

Jrod Jones
09-16-2012, 09:24 AM
These power rankings are not a reflection of team strength. We'll have those for you the Tuesday before the season opener. These rankings reflect only the events since Game 5 of the NBA Finals. They do reflect whether the team needed to improve or not. The Thunder and Heat get points for already being at a point where they needed very little. From there, it's based off the draft, trades, and free agency. Here's how the offseasons of all 30 teams stack up.


I think a lot of people are overlooking the rankings... they are based on the OFFSEASON. I think that average-above average is about where we sit so the 10-15 range is about right. We didn't do anything drastic, but made a few interesting changes.

Pacerized
09-16-2012, 10:57 AM
As far as Kaman goes, he wasn't going to come here to be a backup. It was Hibbert or Kaman, not both. I wish we had gotten Scola as well but we are awfully close to the luxury tax are even with the modest moves we made. I don't think we had as much room as people want to think. Then you also have to consider the Pacers expect Paul George to improve a lot and in 2 years to get a big payday. You have to plan for that to avoid luxury tax as well.
As it stands we are only 5 million or so from the luxury tax and probably need that room to fill out the roster. If we did make the big move people were hoping for we wouldn't be under the tax. Which was never a possibility.

I really don't consider Kaman or Scola big moves, just good moves. Scola counts for no more then Ian against the cap so for the same money I think that should be a no brainer. It would have just required better time management from our F.O.
I think Kaman would have came here for the same money which would have still kept us under the L.T. and wouldn't have hindered our keeping PG since Kaman only signed for 1 year anyway. If the F.O. just told him he'd still get starters minutes playing both the 4/5, not just be Hibberts backup. You don't sign a player like Kaman to play him 15 minutes. Of course, we'll never know since we didn't put the offer out there. We were talking to Kaman much earlier and should have put the offer on the table as soon as Nash was gone.

vnzla81
09-16-2012, 11:02 AM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

Pacerized
09-16-2012, 11:17 AM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

I look at DC vs Augustin as a wash but I really don't think it's close when comparing the talent level of Barbosa to Green. Neither one are top players but Barbosa is considerably better. It seems like we shuffled the deck for the sake of it which would be o.k. but I don't think we needed to hand out long term deals to Green and Ian.

J7F
09-16-2012, 11:36 AM
I really don't consider Kaman or Scola big moves, just good moves. Scola counts for no more then Ian against the cap so for the same money I think that should be a no brainer. It would have just required better time management from our F.O.
I think Kaman would have came here for the same money which would have still kept us under the L.T. and wouldn't have hindered our keeping PG since Kaman only signed for 1 year anyway. If the F.O. just told him he'd still get starters minutes playing both the 4/5, not just be Hibberts backup. You don't sign a player like Kaman to play him 15 minutes. Of course, we'll never know since we didn't put the offer out there. We were talking to Kaman much earlier and should have put the offer on the table as soon as Nash was gone.

I fail to see how simply playing starter minutes while coming off the bench in Indiana is even slightly comparable to starting next to your legendary BFF in Dallas if you are Kaman... No chance in hell he signs that same contract with us...

Sparhawk
09-16-2012, 11:40 AM
I think that's a bit low, we should be in the Top 10.

It's also not fair to say that this team didn't get better, they'll improve simply because they're a young team and guys will take some steps forward with their respective games.

I think they should be higher, but truthfully, they didn't really get better on paper. However, because they are a young team, they should improve. There is a difference between improving through draft/FA, and improving cause your guys got better. I think their assessment was spot on, but they should still be higher.

76ers that high is a joke. They got a good C, but he's injury prone. Why is that a great move? They still lost their best player to get him.
Atlanta shouldn't be that high either. Yeah, they unloaded some contracts, but they are gonna be much worse.

Sparhawk
09-16-2012, 11:48 AM
I look at DC vs Augustin as a wash but I really don't think it's close when comparing the talent level of Barbosa to Green. Neither one are top players but Barbosa is considerably better. It seems like we shuffled the deck for the sake of it which would be o.k. but I don't think we needed to hand out long term deals to Green and Ian.

I disagree with you there on Green and Barbosa. Barbosa is only good cause of his speed. He's older and has already lost a step. His game is only going to get worse and fast. He is simply not a good enough shooter to compensate for losing his elite speed.

Green is still young & super athletic. He also showed that he's worked on his shot, shooting 39% from 3. Yeah, he's still a bit of an "if", but he can also still get better, unlike Barbosa.

And I really like the Ian signing. Yeah, I think the Pacers gave up too much just to sign him, but he should be a quality backup C. And he's making chump change. All big men get paid, and his contract is pretty reasonable. Robin Lopez is making $5M, so I think Ian at $4M is a steal.

J7F
09-16-2012, 11:56 AM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

And remind me who is currently out of the NBA between the two...

Teams that Barbs was quoted as saying were interested in him last week denied being interested in him...

Two years ago you are dead right... But look at last years stats... For the season Gerald was marginally better... Compare Barbs in Indy to Gerald in NJ and the stats are even more in Gerald's favor... And that isn't even taking Barbs' horrible postseason into consideration...

FlavaDave
09-16-2012, 12:26 PM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

So Travis Diener was better than Stephen Jackson back in 2006 because SJax spend time out of the league?

As another user pointed out, Green got snatched up immediately at the beginning of the offseason, and Barbosa is still teamless. Why? Well, Green scored more points per game at a better percentage than Barbosa last year. That's not good when Barbosa is a scoring specialist. Add in Green's superior size, defensive ability, and youth, and it seems crystal clear that Green is better than Barbosa.

xBulletproof
09-16-2012, 01:36 PM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

Remind me who isn't in the NBA as we approach camp. So, yeah. If he plays like he did in New Jersey, yes. And it's not even close.

Partially because of the way Vogel used Barbosa like he was Steve Nash.

vnzla81
09-16-2012, 02:32 PM
Remind me who isn't in the NBA as we approach camp. So, yeah. If he plays like he did in New Jersey, yes. And it's not even close.

Partially because of the way Vogel used Barbosa like he was Steve Nash.

I'm pretty sure that he has some NBA offers as well as some european and Brazilian league offers, at this point in Barbosa's career it's all about making as much as he can.

xBulletproof
09-16-2012, 06:57 PM
I'm pretty sure that he has some NBA offers as well as some european and Brazilian league offers, at this point in Barbosa's career it's all about making as much as he can.

And you believe his best chance at making more money was waiting until teams have their rosters set and have spent their money in free agency already?

:shrug:

Sollozzo
09-16-2012, 07:05 PM
This guy is right. Our offseason was a snoozer. We have a net gain of Mahinmi, Green, a rookie, and some training camp scrubs. Mahinmi is a backup big man and Green hasn't played a full NBA season since 2006-2007. He didn't even play in the league from 2009-2011. Collison and Augistin essentially cancel each other out, IMHO. I'd still give an edge to Collison because he has two years worth of chemistry with our players.

Sollozzo
09-16-2012, 07:10 PM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

No kidding.

Gerald Green's career games played:

05-06: 32
06-07: 81
07-08: 30
08-09: 38
09-11: Didn't play in the NBA for these two years
11-12: 31

He has had ONE season where he played the entire year, and that was 6 years ago. And as you mention, he was out of the league a couple of years ago. No wonder we got him on the cheap. I would love it if he could do what he did in 31 games with NJ last year for us over the course of the entire season, but I'm not hopeful. His track record is way too suspect.

daschysta
09-16-2012, 07:53 PM
How right or wrong this is depends on whether Green is able to replicate, or improve on his last year, or if it was a fluke.

12.9 ppg in just 25 mpg is really, really good, especially on 48/39.

He improved in the last 12 games of the year too, 15.1 ppg 4 rpg 2 apg in 28 mpg in april, on 46.4/41.

If he's that player at it wasn't an illusion we potentially got significantly better, if not we stayed about the same talent wise.

However, you can argue Dj is a better fit, and even if we're about the same talent wise David West will be healthy, and Hibbert and George should improve a decent amount, and hopefully GH can continue to evolve as a point guard.

So either way even if we're just about as "talented" we should be signifcantly improved as a team on pure internal improvement. None of our players really stand to decline if conventional knowledge holds.

As for Philly and ATL, ATL made absolutely great moves for their future, JJ is a good player, but that team is an also ran after so many years trying and he was a albatross contract, Philly i'm not high on. Yes, Bynum is a really good player, but they lost their top 2 players from last season, their leading scorer, and are relying on Turner way to much to improve. Turner is never going to be an above average scorer until he gets a jumpshot, Jrue has potential, but hasn't realized it yet. We'll see how they play, those two, and Bynum's health is key, and they haven't (Jrue/ ET) proven they can shoulder that kind of load yet.

vnzla81
09-16-2012, 09:56 PM
No kidding.

Gerald Green's career games played:

05-06: 32
06-07: 81
07-08: 30
08-09: 38
09-11: Didn't play in the NBA for these two years
11-12: 31

He has had ONE season where he played the entire year, and that was 6 years ago. And as you mention, he was out of the league a couple of years ago. No wonder we got him on the cheap. I would love it if he could do what he did in 31 games with NJ last year for us over the course of the entire season, but I'm not hopeful. His track record is way too suspect.

Yep, I was one of those guys that was in his bandwagon when he was in Boston but after five years I don't expect much out of him, he is probably a decent replacement for DJ and more athletic of course but after that I don't see the upgrade.

vnzla81
09-16-2012, 10:07 PM
And you believe his best chance at making more money was waiting until teams have their rosters set and have spent their money in free agency already?

:shrug:

I think he has some offers from some Brazilian teams, he is in a similar situation as AK47 when he went to Russia(he got a huge offer) he is probably playing in Brazil for a year to make as much money as he can and then come back to the NBA for veterans minimum somewhere.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the difference between Barbosa and Green is that Barbosa has more options, Green was in the D-league for a reason, is either NBA or bust for him when in Barbosa's case he can play anywhere.

PR07
09-17-2012, 12:27 AM
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the difference between Barbosa and Green is that Barbosa has more options, Green was in the D-league for a reason, is either NBA or bust for him when in Barbosa's case he can play anywhere.

I don't care much for the "there's a reason he was in the D-league". Tell that to Jeremy Lin or Marcin Gortat. The player that he was last year, the year before, whatever is not the same player he is today. In the present and future, I like Gerald Green more than I like Barbosa going forward.

Lance George
09-17-2012, 12:59 AM
Why are people bringing up years past as an argument for the present and the future? There's a reason why no one's rushing to sign Leandro Barbosa -- he t'aint what he use to be. He was below average for us in the regular season, and downright awful in the playoffs (if you look at his career (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barbole01.html), his play has always dropped off in the postseason).

Green may be a one-year-wonder, but there's no question he played at a higher level than Barbosa this past season, and is three years younger and five-inches taller to boot. I'd be surprised if there was a single team in the league who wouldn't take him over Barbosa.

komina12345
09-17-2012, 01:47 AM
How badly do we need a new PG right now? Does George Hill really match up to the level that the rest of the plays at?
I mean Hibbert, Granger, and David West all seem like they'll become very good players.
Paul George looks like he has extreme potential and can become a future superstar.
But what should Indy be willing to give up for a better point guard because I feel like this separates us from becoming a truly good team.

Ace E.Anderson
09-17-2012, 09:42 AM
I think he has some offers from some Brazilian teams, he is in a similar situation as AK47 when he went to Russia(he got a huge offer) he is probably playing in Brazil for a year to make as much money as he can and then come back to the NBA for veterans minimum somewhere.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the difference between Barbosa and Green is that Barbosa has more options, Green was in the D-league for a reason, is either NBA or bust for him when in Barbosa's case he can play anywhere.

Green played in Russia and China before he played in the D-League. He could play overseas again if he needed to. Also, it's not like we were the only ones trying to sign him. The Bulls, Nets, and Celtics were 3 other teams that were reportedly looking to sign Green at one point or another earlier in the summer. He MAY be a one yr wonder, but we aren't bringing him in to be anything more than an offensive weapon off the bench. Not too difficult for a player with really good talent and athletic gifts like Green possesses.

Constellations
09-17-2012, 10:06 AM
I do not approve of this.

vnzla81
09-17-2012, 10:12 AM
Green played in Russia and China before he played in the D-League. He could play overseas again if he needed to. Also, it's not like we were the only ones trying to sign him. The Bulls, Nets, and Celtics were 3 other teams that were reportedly looking to sign Green at one point or another earlier in the summer. He MAY be a one yr wonder, but we aren't bringing him in to be anything more than an offensive weapon off the bench. Not too difficult for a player with really good talent and athletic gifts like Green possesses.

He was waived in Russia and China, I don't think you can count that as "he can play overseas if he wants to".

PR07
09-17-2012, 11:25 AM
He was waived in Russia and China, I don't think you can count that as "he can play overseas if he wants to".

I think he could. There are far lesser players that play overseas currently. Just because it may not have worked out with two teams, it doesn't mean other teams wouldn't give him a shot. There's a lot of basketball on this planet.

Natston
09-17-2012, 05:42 PM
And you believe his best chance at making more money was waiting until teams have their rosters set and have spent their money in free agency already?

:shrug:

He's more than likely waiting to a role to open up, right now he has all freedom to choose. If he wanted money he would have rejected the trade and stayed in Toronto.

Mad-Mad-Mario
09-17-2012, 05:46 PM
So people are saying that Green is better than Barbosa? remind me who was out of the NBA not long ago? .....

Who is out of the league now?