PDA

View Full Version : Report: Pacers to Sign Blake Ahearn



90'sNBARocked
09-01-2012, 12:02 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/report-pacers-to-sign-blake-ahearn-2/


Free agent guard Blake Ahearn and the Indiana Pacers have agreed to a deal. Ahearn, mostly known as a shooter, finished the 2011-12 season with the Jazz after getting called up from the D-League

Link to his bio
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3402/blake-ahearn

russkiy
09-01-2012, 12:07 PM
I hope this signee is just for the traing capm and preseason.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/report-pacers-to-sign-blake-ahearn-2/



Link to his bio
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3402/blake-ahearn

yoadknux
09-01-2012, 12:09 PM
Contenders!

J7F
09-01-2012, 12:11 PM
For being known mostly as a shooter this guy has HORRIBLE shooting percentages in his 19 games played over 3 seasons!

MillerTime
09-01-2012, 12:11 PM
Who???????????

Speed
09-01-2012, 12:19 PM
Pretty good NBDL numbers, for sure. 23.8 ppg, 5.1 assists.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/blake_ahearn/

Appears he can put the biscuit in the basket.

FlavaDave
09-01-2012, 12:26 PM
I didn't know a negative PER was possible. -7.17. Wow.

I'm never critical of these kinds of signings because they never have an impact on anything. Mostly, I'm hoping he is hilarious in interviews or develops an entertaining high five routine.

Goyle
09-01-2012, 12:34 PM
I didn't know a negative PER was possible. -7.17. Wow.

I'm never critical of these kinds of signings because they never have an impact on anything. Mostly, I'm hoping he is hilarious in interviews or develops an entertaining high five routine.

Yeah, I don't expect this dude to play. I hope he can keep up with Lance's cheerleading.

PGisthefuture
09-01-2012, 12:58 PM
Maybe he could be our Steve Novak.

pacer4ever
09-01-2012, 01:14 PM
No he won't play much but can be a solid 15th man smart player who has range for days. Makes me kind of sad love watching him every year in the Dleague. Travis Diener without the speed but has more size. We did need a shooter off the bench purely shooting he is the best out on the market. But brings nothing eles really. But I'm happy for him been watching this guy hoop for years looks like he could be the water boy but he can really play and knows his role.

Lance George
09-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Pretty good NBDL numbers, for sure. 23.8 ppg, 5.1 assists.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/blake_ahearn/

Appears he can put the biscuit in the basket.

He looks like he's pushing 50. Rough life.

D-BONE
09-01-2012, 01:29 PM
Mr. Irrelevant (Pacers version...and actually irrelevant)?

J7F
09-01-2012, 01:37 PM
No he won't play much but can be a solid 15th man smart player who has range for days. Makes me kind of sad love watching him every year in the Dleague. Travis Diener without the speed but has more size. We did need a shooter off the bench purely shooting he is the best out on the market. But brings nothing eles really. But I'm happy for him been watching this guy hoop for years looks like he could be the water boy but he can really play and knows his role.

Well I am a fan of bigger PGs... But usually because they can get to the basket well and can defend... Doesn't sound like this guy's skill set though...

vnzla81
09-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Finally the rebuilding proccess is over I smell a Championship :dance:

Dgreenwell3
09-01-2012, 02:07 PM
Blake ahearn can play...watched this kid at Missouri state he can ball

Nuntius
09-01-2012, 02:16 PM
Hey, I remember that guy. He played in the Utah Jazz SL team which played against the Pacers this summer. He had 11 points (3/4 shooting, 4/4 FTs), 2 assists and 1 booard.

I also recall that the announcers said that his nickname at college was "Auto" because he was automatic from the free throw line. They said that they shot over 95% at college. The D-League stats put him at 96.2% and in his NBA career he has hit 32 of his 33 FTs (97%).

Hey, I won't say no to someone who is so reliable at the line.

pacer4ever
09-01-2012, 02:21 PM
Well I am a fan of bigger PGs... But usually because they can get to the basket well and can defend... Doesn't sound like this guy's skill set though...

Not his skill set at all. At the NBA level he will be beyond bad on defense and not a great penetrator I think he actually plays a lot like Cabbages just a better teammate.

Sollozzo
09-01-2012, 02:28 PM
Who?

This offseason = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Pacer Fan
09-01-2012, 02:51 PM
I've watched him play over the years, good to see him get yet another chance with the big boys. The dude is a knock down shooter and handles the ball well, smart player. I think he could run an offense if on the right team and the defense doesn't pressure him to much, which he should be fine doing during a season. Playoffs or important season games is another story, so I don't see the point of signing him on our team. Prolly just a 10 day contract.

Heisenberg
09-01-2012, 02:57 PM
There are worse scrubs, but I'd still have preferred our last guy on the bench/first guy in a suit be a big guy. Oh well, whatever.

Merz
09-01-2012, 03:04 PM
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/super-duper-anchorman.gif

Pingu
09-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Finally, the great shooter Larry Bird promised us a few years back.

mousewilliams999
09-01-2012, 03:31 PM
I attend Missouri State, so naturally I welcome the new addition.

glazedham42
09-01-2012, 04:13 PM
If we have to fill a nearly meaningless 15th spot on the roster, then you might as well do it with a specialist. If someone goes down with a broken leg in the last second of game 7 of the finals and we have two free throws to win the championship, then you sub in this guy. Apart from that scenario I don't think he'll play much. I don't think having a 96% free throw shooter on your team could ever be bad though. This guy even makes Reggie look like a bad FT shooter.

Will Galen
09-01-2012, 04:47 PM
There are worse scrubs, but I'd still have preferred our last guy on the bench/first guy in a suit be a big guy. Oh well, whatever.


If we have to fill a nearly meaningless 15th spot on the roster, then you might as well do it with a specialist. If someone goes down with a broken leg in the last second of game 7 of the finals and we have two free throws to win the championship, then you sub in this guy. Apart from that scenario I don't think he'll play much. I don't think having a 96% free throw shooter on your team could ever be bad though. This guy even makes Reggie look like a bad FT shooter.

I thought signing Blake makes him our #14 player?

vnzla81
09-01-2012, 05:01 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_blake_ahearn.jpg

Hopefully he does not know how to dunk or Seth is going to have another man crush.

xBulletproof
09-01-2012, 05:10 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_blake_ahearn.jpg

Hopefully he does not know how to dunk or Seth is going to have another man crush.

He doesn't look like someone I would expect to be able to touch the net. :laugh:

Kemo
09-01-2012, 05:15 PM
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_blake_ahearn.jpg

Hopefully he does not know how to dunk or Seth is going to have another man crush.

haha dude looks exactly like Kevin Spacey hahaha
wow

wintermute
09-01-2012, 05:24 PM
http://hoopshype.com/articles/sierra/pacers-to-sign-blake-ahearn



Ahearn's deal with Indiana is a make-good training camp contract with some guaranteed money, the source said.


He has to make the team first, people.

vnzla81
09-01-2012, 05:25 PM
He doesn't look like someone I would expect to be able to touch the net. :laugh:

Well you never know, one behind the back pass and a dunk per game and you know Seth would fall in love with the guy :laugh:

billbradley
09-02-2012, 01:31 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wSB7w1py6LQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Brad8888
09-02-2012, 03:00 AM
Sounds like a solid stretch 15.

Goyle
09-02-2012, 03:17 AM
guys is it sad that I think I'm getting excited about having a good free throw shooter?

Trader Joe
09-02-2012, 04:06 AM
This guy played for a team USA team at any level?

Bball
09-02-2012, 04:56 AM
Who?

This offseason = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You got that right...
I don't want to hear anyone crying about the media (and fan) love the Colts are and will be getting. The Pacers made their bed with this BLAH off season. Hopefully the moves they made were the right ones because otherwise they haven't exactly stoked the fire any.

Heisenberg
09-02-2012, 05:07 AM
You got that right...
I don't want to hear anyone crying about the media (and fan) love the Colts are and will be getting. The Pacers made their bed with this BLAH off season. Hopefully the moves they made were the right ones because otherwise they haven't exactly stoked the fire any.
Yeah, I mean god forbid the Pacers win 60+% of their games while the Colts win 25%.

wintermute
09-02-2012, 07:05 AM
This guy played for a team USA team at any level?

Don't get too excited. It was the 2011 Pan-Am games when team USA couldn't send NBA players (or even NBA-bound players) due to the lockout. Instead, they sent a selection of D-League players, among them Ahearn. In fairness, Ahearn was a key player in team USA's bronze medal finish. And Greg Stiemsma from the same team did end up having a productive season with Boston, so there's that.

Hicks
09-02-2012, 10:05 AM
You got that right...
I don't want to hear anyone crying about the media (and fan) love the Colts are and will be getting. The Pacers made their bed with this BLAH off season. Hopefully the moves they made were the right ones because otherwise they haven't exactly stoked the fire any.

Who did you think was coming?

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 10:14 AM
Yeah, I mean god forbid the Pacers win 60+% of their games while the Colts win 25%.

.... And I'm more excited about the Colts season than the Pacers season, at least on the Colts you can see the light at the end of the tunnel unlike the Pacers.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 10:15 AM
Who did you think was coming?

Anybody better than what they got?

Sollozzo
09-02-2012, 10:30 AM
Eastern teams that had more productive offseasons than the Pacers:

Miami
Boston
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia

Miami and Boston were already better than the Pacers, but they improved their teams even more. Losing Lin could hurt New York, but Camby, Kidd, and Felton aren't exactly table scraps. That team is more talented than the Pacers. The only question with them is if they can put it all together and play as a team, and that's certainly a legitimate question. Philly added freaking Andrew Bynum to their team in a steal of a trade. If he can stay healthy for the year, then who knows how deadly he will be as the focal point of an offense? The Nets aren't better than us yet, but they added Joe Johnson. And keep in mind that Brook Lopez only played 5 games for them last year. They will be a very competitive team this season.

The Pacers had a far more lame offseason than any of the above teams. We at least did the right thing by keeping Hibbert and Hill, but we didn't do much to actually improve our roster aside from shaking the bench up a bit. And this was the year where we had the opportunity to make a big splash with our cap space. We won't have that luxury in future years. I still think this team will miss the energy that Collison brought. He had his moments in the playoffs. Remember game 5 against Orlando? Remember how well he was playing against Chicago in 2011 before tripping over that camera man? I do like DJ Augistin, but is he really any better than Collison? I'm sorry that Ian Mahinmi doesn't excite me. Nor does Gerald Green. Why should I be excited about a player whose career games played are as follows:

05-06: 32
06-07: 81
07-08: 30
08-09: 38
11-12: 31

He hasn't played a full NBA season in almost SIX years. It's no wonder that we were able to sign him so easily.

We seem to be completely content with where we are, and my question is why? None of the other upper level Eastern Conference teams seemed to be completely content, not even the world champion Heat.

Any way you slice it, this offseason was a giant snooze fest. Collison and Augistin cancel each other out, IMHO. So our offseason improvements essentially boil down to Mahinmi and Green. Yeah, I'm not going to do any cartwheels over that.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 10:44 AM
Eastern teams that had more productive offseasons than the Pacers:

Miami
Boston
New York
Brooklyn
Philadelphia

Miami and Boston were already better than the Pacers, but they improved their teams even more. Losing Lin could hurt New York, but Camby, Kidd, and Felton aren't exactly table scraps. That team is more talented than the Pacers. The only question with them is if they can put it all together and play as a team, and that's certainly a legitimate question. Philly added freaking Andrew Bynum to their team in a steal of a trade. If he can stay healthy for the year, then who knows how deadly he will be as the focal point of an offense? The Nets aren't better than us yet, but they added Joe Johnson. And keep in mind that Brook Lopez only played 5 games for them last year. They will be a very competitive team this season.

The Pacers had a far more lame offseason than any of the above teams. We at least did the right thing by keeping Hibbert and Hill, but we didn't do much to actually improve our roster aside from shaking the bench up a bit. And this was the year where we had the opportunity to make a big splash with our cap space. We won't have that luxury in future years. I still think this team will miss the energy that Collison brought. He had his moments in the playoffs. Remember game 5 against Orlando? Remember how well he was playing against Chicago in 2011 before tripping over that camera man? I do like DJ Augistin, but is he really any better than Collison? I'm sorry that Ian Mahinmi doesn't excite me. Nor does Gerald Green. Why should I be excited about a player whose career games played are as follows:

05-06: 32
06-07: 81
07-08: 30
08-09: 38
11-12: 31

He hasn't played a full NBA season in almost SIX years. It's no wonder that we were able to sign him so easily.

We seem to be completely content and where we are, and my question is why? None of the other upper level Eastern Conference teams seemed to be completely content, not even the world champion Heat.

Any way you slice it, this offseason was a giant snooze fest. Collison and Augistin cancel each other out, IMHO. So our offseason improvements essentially boil down to Mahinmi and Green. Yeah, I'm not going to do any cartwheels over that.

I thanked you because I agree with must of your post but I disagree that the Nets are not better than the Pacers, they are better and if the "click" it won't be even close.

Sollozzo
09-02-2012, 10:51 AM
I thanked you because I agree with must of your post but I disagree that the Nets are not better than the Pacers, they are better and if the "click" it won't be even close.


Yeah I can definitely see it if they have good chemistry and stay healthy. Great backcourt and extremely solid front court.

Hicks
09-02-2012, 11:00 AM
So what did you think was going to happen?

There's a difference between what would have been nice and what was really ever probable.

DangerGranger3pointranger
09-02-2012, 11:02 AM
I'm fine with the deal as long as we aren't spending much.

Sollozzo
09-02-2012, 11:05 AM
So what did you think was going to happen?

There's a difference between what would have been nice and what was really ever probable.

So the only probable result going in was a net-gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green?

Why was it that 5 other Eastern teams made very solid improvements to their rosters, while all the Pacers could do is add a backup big man and a player with a history of missing a ton of games in his career, and who didn't even play in the NBA in the two years before last season? Like I said, Augistin and Collison essentially cancel each other out.

Pacerized
09-02-2012, 11:07 AM
I know he's a free agent so I wonder if we could still find a way to trade a player for him.

Pacerized
09-02-2012, 11:34 AM
So the only probable result going in was a net-gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green?

Why was it that 5 other Eastern teams made very solid improvements to their rosters, while all the Pacers could do is add a backup big man and a player with a history of missing a ton of games in his career, and who didn't even play in the NBA in the two years before last season? Like I said, Augistin and Collison essentially cancel each other out.


That is close to how I see things. We didn't make any significant improvements but didn't get worse either. There was a lot of opportunity to improve that didn't involve landing a star player. Kaman at 1 year 8 mil would have been a huge improvement over what we did with Ian and I'd rather have seen the team spend the extra 4 mil for 1 year since they didn't' use it anyway. Managing the timing of the Hibbert/Hill signings to take advantage of amnestied players would have been a huge improvement over what we did. They were aware of who was available before the contracts were signed and that's all it should have taken. DW and Pritch should have done a lot better then they did with what they had to work with.

I will say it's a lot easier to improve a lesser team so of course the Nets made a bigger splash. I still think the Pacers are the 2cd. best team in the east but they should have closed the gap with Miami and didn't but the Nets, Knicks and Sixers aren't as good.
For the sake of the future I don't want any more moves made by DW that will have any long term ramifications. After this summer I don't trust the competence of our front office. I'd rather wait for player development this season and hope that Bird returns for free agency next summer.

Sparhawk
09-02-2012, 11:35 AM
Yawn

Hicks
09-02-2012, 11:41 AM
So the only probable result going in was a net-gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green?

Why was it that 5 other Eastern teams made very solid improvements to their rosters, while all the Pacers could do is add a backup big man and a player with a history of missing a ton of games in his career, and who didn't even play in the NBA in the two years before last season? Like I said, Augistin and Collison essentially cancel each other out.

I don't have all the answers as to why. What I do know is the players that wound up on the rosters of our rivals did not decide to come here. So the question is: Who did you believe was likely going to become a Pacer but ended up somewhere else?

Natston
09-02-2012, 11:48 AM
If we play like the Heat in here, we will lose to the Heat out there.

hoosierguy
09-02-2012, 02:18 PM
.... And I'm more excited about the Colts season than the Pacers season, at least on the Colts you can see the light at the end of the tunnel unlike the Pacers.

If by "light at the end of the tunnel" you don't mean winning games and making the playoffs then maybe I agree with you, because the Pacers are at the end of the tunnel.

hoosierguy
09-02-2012, 02:22 PM
So the only probable result going in was a net-gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green?

Why was it that 5 other Eastern teams made very solid improvements to their rosters, while all the Pacers could do is add a backup big man and a player with a history of missing a ton of games in his career, and who didn't even play in the NBA in the two years before last season? Like I said, Augistin and Collison essentially cancel each other out.

The Celtics didn't get better- they got older. If you think the Celtics are better than the Pacers now, then you must have thought they were better than the Pacers last season. Boston was lucky that Rose tore his ACL otherwise they don't sniff the ECF.

Philly- who knows? They lost their do-it-all star Iguodala to get a temperamental immature center with chronic knee issues. Brookyln added an over-the-hill grossly overpaid Joe Johnson. Sure, Lopez will be back but were the nets ever any good when he was healthy?

hoosierguy
09-02-2012, 02:24 PM
Why was it that 5 other Eastern teams made very solid improvements to their rosters, while all the Pacers could do is add a backup big man and a player with a history of missing a ton of games in his career, and who didn't even play in the NBA in the two years before last season? Like I said, Augistin and Collison essentially cancel each other out.

The Pacers have a very good starting five- the bench was the main weakness, especially in the playoffs against Miami. Roy and Hill were both FAs that had to be re-signed which used all the cap space. The bench has been upgraded with players that can score. Hibbert and George are young and still improving. Just because a team's roster didn't change doesn't mean the team won't get better. Do you think the Thunder aren't going to get any better this offseason?

Bball
09-02-2012, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I mean god forbid the Pacers win 60+% of their games while the Colts win 25%.

Exactly.... If the Pacers are winning at a good clip and yet nobody thinks they have a realistic chance to go deep in the playoffs because they didn't improve enough to beat the team(s) aheah of them and then the Colts' winning at a 25% clip is getting more media and fan buzz it's because the Colts are cultivating the idea they are on the upswing.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 02:43 PM
The Celtics didn't get better- they got older. If you think the Celtics are better than the Pacers now, then you must have thought they were better than the Pacers last season. Boston was lucky that Rose tore his ACL otherwise they don't sniff the ECF.

Philly- who knows? They lost their do-it-all star Iguodala to get a temperamental immature center with chronic knee issues. Brookyln added an over-the-hill grossly overpaid Joe Johnson. Sure, Lopez will be back but were the nets ever any good when he was healthy?

I love the typical comments of "The Celtics got older" while ignoring that two of the main Pacers players also got older(West, Danny) I also love the comments of people thinking that someway somehow West is going to be better even though he got a year older.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 02:44 PM
If by "light at the end of the tunnel" you don't mean winning games and making the playoffs then maybe I agree with you, because the Pacers are at the end of the tunnel.

I'm pretty sure the Colts goal is not just to make it to the playoffs.

Bball
09-02-2012, 02:44 PM
I don't have all the answers as to why. What I do know is the players that wound up on the rosters of our rivals did not decide to come here. So the question is: Who did you believe was likely going to become a Pacer but ended up somewhere else?

Taking themselves out of the running for the amnestied players is one thing but I think the draft is probably a big wet blanket on things unless they truly found something others missed. But that will have to be proven on the court because their pick isn't bringing any hype of a potential homerun with him.

Then just the general idea that Bird left because the team didn't want to be aggressive to take the next step. Maybe that's not true but it's a major feeling that is out there.

So we're back to the small market pity party to explain our off season. Meanwhile the Colts have the #1 pick in the draft and one of the most hyped players coming out of college in years.... and never play the small market pity party card.

hoosierguy
09-02-2012, 02:59 PM
I love the typical comments of "The Celtics got older" while ignoring that two of the main Pacers players also got older(West, Danny) I also love the comments of people thinking that someway somehow West is going to be better even though he got a year older.

Well, considering Pierce and Garnett are both over 35 and Granger is only 29 while West is only 32 the comparison is in no way valid. As for your comment about West- did you just completely forget that he was coming off an ACL injury last season? He will be fully re-habbed and healthy this season.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 03:08 PM
Well, considering Pierce and Garnett are both over 35 and Granger is only 29 while West is only 32 the comparison is in no way valid. As for your comment about West- did you just completely forget that he was coming off an ACL injury last season? He will be fully re-habbed and healthy this season.

KG and Pierce at 35 are still better than anything the Pacers have, they are Hall of Famers for a reason, and nope I didn't forget that West had an ACL surgery(the season before last season) and I don't expect that his lateral quickness, rebounding ability and defense gets any better, he is what he is at this point in his career(a 12ppg and 6rpg guy with bad D).

Sollozzo
09-02-2012, 03:14 PM
The Celtics didn't get better- they got older. If you think the Celtics are better than the Pacers now, then you must have thought they were better than the Pacers last season. Boston was lucky that Rose tore his ACL otherwise they don't sniff the ECF.



Jason Terry is younger than Ray Allen by two years, and has been in the NBA for three less seasons . Avery Bradley and Gerald Green are vital young cogs who didn't play against Miami last year (Green missed the whole year and Bradley get hurt against Philly).

Yes, I do think that the post-all break Celtics were better than us last year. They had three better players than anyone on our roster in Rondo, KG, and Pierce. How can you be better than a team that has three players who are better than anyone on your team?

As far as them getting "lucky" that Rose got hurt, that's just part of the game. Everyone else in the East got "lucky" when KG got hurt in 09. That 09 Boston team was the best team in the NBA before he went down and if he doesn't get hurt then they easily make the Finals. So don't look for Boston to send Chicago sympathy cards when they too have been devastated by an unfortunate injury. Plus, I think the Celtics could have beat the Bulls last year even with Rose. They certainly gave Miami all they could handle.

Nuntius
09-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Exactly.... If the Pacers are winning at a good clip and yet nobody thinks they have a realistic chance to go deep in the playoffs because they didn't improve enough to beat the team(s) aheah of them and then the Colts' winning at a 25% clip is getting more media and fan buzz it's because the Colts are cultivating the idea they are on the upswing.

So, you pretty much accept that your feelings towards a team are swayed due to hype. Because cultivating the idea that they are on the upswing is exactly that. Hype.

Sorry but I'm not going to fall for it. Hype does not matter. Results do.

I understand why a number of people are negative about this off-season. They had high (or even unrealistic) expectations that weren't realized. It's evident that most people do not trust the new FO. They probably do not trust Herb either. And they have every right to feel that way and express themselves accordingly.

However, you have to realize this as well. Your negativity is your right but it is also your problem. Those who create it will also have to live in it.

The rest of us can continue being happy and wait to see the results before they judge ;)

Hicks
09-02-2012, 04:58 PM
Taking themselves out of the running for the amnestied players is one thing but I think the draft is probably a big wet blanket on things unless they truly found something others missed. But that will have to be proven on the court because their pick isn't bringing any hype of a potential homerun with him.

Then just the general idea that Bird left because the team didn't want to be aggressive to take the next step. Maybe that's not true but it's a major feeling that is out there.

So we're back to the small market pity party to explain our off season. Meanwhile the Colts have the #1 pick in the draft and one of the most hyped players coming out of college in years.... and never play the small market pity party card.

So is the point that you and Sollozzo are mad at the Pacers or just frustrated by the universe? Because first of all the Colts situation is completely out of their hands and frankly the Colts were extremely fortunate to get Luck (no draft lottery, got the #1 pick after winning meaningless games, Luck happened to come out this year instead of previous years, and he appears to be the real deal after all), and on the NBA side of things, it's speculation that Bird quit for the reason you state, not established fact, and while I completely understand Miles Plumlee being picked, the amnesty thing is something one could only complain about after it was too late for the Pacers to do anything about it. It's not as if this was a huge concern amongst fans until we realized it wasn't possible (and it's not like the Pacers themselves know in advance these guys were going to be amnestied; they find out just barely before it hits the press, if that).

So if you want to complain about the Pacers taking Plumlee, go ahead. But the other stuff? Meh.

And I still want to hear what free agents you specifically felt like the Pacers could have gotten but didn't merely because the Pacers didn't want them.

Hicks
09-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Jason Terry is younger than Ray Allen by two years, and has been in the NBA for three less seasons . Avery Bradley and Gerald Green are vital young cogs who didn't play against Miami last year (Green missed the whole year and Bradley get hurt against Philly).

Yes, I do think that the post-all break Celtics were better than us last year. They had three better players than anyone on our roster in Rondo, KG, and Pierce. How can you be better than a team that has three players who are better than anyone on your team?

As far as them getting "lucky" that Rose got hurt, that's just part of the game. Everyone else in the East got "lucky" when KG got hurt in 09. That 09 Boston team was the best team in the NBA before he went down and if he doesn't get hurt then they easily make the Finals. So don't look for Boston to send Chicago sympathy cards when they too have been devastated by an unfortunate injury. Plus, I think the Celtics could have beat the Bulls last year even with Rose. They certainly gave Miami all they could handle.

I'm not particularly interested in a lengthy dialog of Boston, but I'll chime in once at least:

I can imagine Boston being better than us. I can also imagine them not being better than us.

Terry is younger than Allen, but we don't know if he'll bring enough to the table to completely replace that loss until we see how he fits in.
Bradley and Green have not shown (and can't until it plays out) how well they'll hold up (shoulders, heart) over the length of the season yet; there could be lingering issues there.
The wheels will eventually fall off on Garnett and Pierce, and it could very well be this season.

This also assumes none of our players have improved or that our new people won't amount to ****. I can envision a few of our guys being better and/or surprising your apparent expectations, and there's the question of if these pieces fit together than the '12 roster as well. Could go either way. I'm not trying to tell you they were exciting moves, just that they might work out well despite the lack of excitement.

Ichi
09-02-2012, 05:05 PM
I love the typical comments of "The Celtics got older" while ignoring that two of the main Pacers players also got older(West, Danny) I also love the comments of people thinking that someway somehow West is going to be better even though he got a year older.

Because 29 and 32 is comparable to 34 and 36. When Pierce has already started to show a sharp decline, especially on D.

Bball
09-02-2012, 05:55 PM
So is the point that you and Sollozzo are mad at the Pacers or just frustrated by the universe?

Re-read what I said. I'm not talking about 'me', I'm talking about casual fans and potential casual fans. If ticket sales aren't exactly flying out the door and ESPN and NBATV aren't constantly talking about the Pacers then anyone wondering why need look no further than the offseason.

So when the hard core fans, local press (if they pay attention at all), and PS&E start wondering where the fans are, when we start hearing cries of Indy being bandwagoners, we can't discount this offseason was very 'blah'. Nothing moved the needle. Even the good vibes of making the playoffs and winning in round 1 were negated by Granger's play and Miami's ability to get up off the mat early and easily take care of the Pacers. And make no mistake, the front office dysfunction that followed this season didn't help. This all following what was expected to be our opportunity to do something with cap space.

So, me myself, I'm interested to see how the pieces fit together but there's really been nothing done so far that has me thinking we're any more than at best a tough first round out and then 2nd round fodder. Opinion subject to change based on internal team growth...

But on the 'moved the needle' scale... the Pacers did nothing.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 06:11 PM
Because 29 and 32 is comparable to 34 and 36. When Pierce has already started to show a sharp decline, especially on D.

Pierce and KG are hall of famers, I take those two in wheels chairs if possible and they are still better than anything the Pacers have, not only that but you are saying that KG and Pierce are slowing down but you don't care to mention that Danny and West are slowing down too.

Bball
09-02-2012, 06:14 PM
This also assumes none of our players have improved or that our new people won't amount to ****. I can envision a few of our guys being better and/or surprising your apparent expectations, and there's the question of if these pieces fit together than the '12 roster as well. Could go either way. I'm not trying to tell you they were exciting moves, just that they might work out well despite the lack of excitement.

That is exactly true. But that's nearly all there is to hang your hat on. It might be enough for hard core, die hard fans... but it's not going to make a difference to the general populace that are needed to really fill the seats.

If it was a smart strategy it will pay off in the end. But it won't do anything for the beginning.

Trader Joe
09-02-2012, 06:22 PM
Saying that Pierce and KG are hall of famers and thus you would automatically take them over anyone on our roster is the silliest damn thing in the world. It'd be like the Pistons in 2004 saying they'd rather have Reggie over anyone on their roster because Reggie is the hall of famer.

Hicks
09-02-2012, 06:30 PM
Re-read what I said. I'm not talking about 'me', I'm talking about casual fans and potential casual fans.

Okay. So you're trying to convince us the all/most of the casual fans or potential fans were bored by our summer? Fair enough.

Now why would you or I care if they are or not? What's the point of this?


If ticket sales aren't exactly flying out the door and ESPN and NBATV aren't constantly talking about the Pacers then anyone wondering why need look no further than the offseason.

Or the fact that we didn't already have a roster that screamed 'hype'. There's that.

Paul George and Gerald Green could see us getting some more ESPN love, but we'll see.



So when the hard core fans, local press (if they pay attention at all), and PS&E start wondering where the fans are,

Are we going to be wondering? Get back to me in November/December at the very least. Your mind seems already made up over a future event.


when we start hearing cries of Indy being bandwagoners,

Are we going to start hearing cries about this? Again, you're acting like the future is set.


we can't discount this offseason was very 'blah'. Nothing moved the needle. Even the good vibes of making the playoffs and winning in round 1 were negated by Granger's play

Really? Really? I... I'll just agree to disagree, I guess. I don't see myself gaining anything by picking at this.

If what you're trying to say is watching that series didn't fire up the fanbase, then fair enough because I agree. I just never expect a first round series to do that unless we're an underdog upsetting someone else like we nearly did in 2002.


and Miami's ability to get up off the mat early and easily take care of the Pacers.

Is this how you think everyone else feels about that series? I can think of at least one fan who felt differently.....



And make no mistake, the front office dysfunction that followed this season didn't help.

I was one of the ones not happy with the change in the front office, but I would not call it dysfunction, either. A surprise, but not dysfunction. We didn't exactly re-hire Isiah Thomas to run things.

In any case, based on my experiences with people, they typically don't know or care much about the front office. Bird being a celebrity made it different, but at the end of the day people really care about players and team success. Unless they're getting bad press for crime and whatnot; that lingers.



This all following what was expected to be our opportunity to do something with cap space.

Actually, last summer was our first and best opportunity, then secondly we could have done something else big this summer. We used it last summer, we didn't this summer. I'll agree again that it's anything but exciting, but I'm not holding a razor to my wrist about it, either; we were already a good team with room for internal development. And we're not exactly doomed to 5 years of team salary hell in the coming years, either. Unless we feel liking throwing bags of money at Danny, David, and Paul when their times come, we will have opportunity and cap space to pursue new players starting in the summer of 2014.



So, me myself, I'm interested to see how the pieces fit together but there's really been nothing done so far that has me thinking we're any more than at best a tough first round out and then 2nd round fodder. Opinion subject to change based on internal team growth...

Okay. I'm not extremely different, but I'm just not gloomy about it like you appear to be. You're thinking they'll struggle to get out of the first round, I'm thinking struggle to get out of the second round. There's a lot left to be played out before we worry about the post season.

We were the equivalent of a 50 win team last season, we have a few players who could improve, and our new pieces, while not really better on paper (though I would argue all 3 are a tiny bit), may result in a team that is more well put together than last year's roster, which would also open the door to team improvement. So it's not exactly a Lars von Trier movie we're talking about here. Hope remains alive and well for a very fun year. Championship? Unlikely, but that's not the only fun scenario when following an NBA team. Just ask the 90's era.


But on the 'moved the needle' scale... the Pacers did nothing.

Okay. I guess I just don't care. There are reasons they might match or exceed last season's results, and if they do that the hype will take care of itself.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 06:34 PM
Saying that Pierce and KG are hall of famers and thus you would automatically take them over anyone on our roster is the silliest damn thing in the world. It'd be like the Pistons in 2004 saying they'd rather have Reggie over anyone on their roster because Reggie is the hall of famer.

Uh? What the 2004 Piston and Reggie have to do anything with what I'm saying? Are you trying to compare Detroit of 04 with the Pacers this year? and if you are I don't really know what to tell you...

Hicks
09-02-2012, 06:35 PM
That is exactly true. But that's nearly all there is to hang your hat on.

This mentality baffles me. Negative reduction for the sake of... feeling ****y, I guess?

Bball
09-02-2012, 07:44 PM
This mentality baffles me. Negative reduction for the sake of... feeling ****y, I guess?

It's not really negative though. It's just noting the situation. We upgraded the bench on paper (which in and of itself isn't going to make anyone take notice), and we made sure our core is back intact and hoping they can continue to show growth (or in some cases shake the swoon of the past season). That's the bullet we have in the chamber. I suppose if we'd really wanted to shake things up we could've improved the starting lineup and used the changes to then improve the bench. But that is neither here nor there.

Nuntius
09-02-2012, 07:46 PM
This whole Indy is a bandwagon town is starting to get tiring.

Yes, Indy is a bandwagon town. Most towns are just like that. Wanna know why? Because most towns consist of casual fans. And casual fans tend to jump on and off bandwagons. That's the whole reason that they are called casual fans.

Does it matter though? Is it bad that Indy is a bandwagon town? I'm not going to judge someone because he is just a casual fan instead of a hardcore one.

Why should we care about it?

We're here to discuss our Pacers. And our season is going to be fascinating. Why? Because we will keep improving. Because we can win our division. And if we end up winning our division, we can reach the ECF. And that would be an improvement upon our last season. And this improvement could be the first step for our next improvement.

You can start worrying when we stop improving. As long as we're steadily improving I don't see the reason for all this negativity.

Because, no matter what the media say, the Indiana Pacers are on the upswing!

Bball
09-02-2012, 07:51 PM
On the other post, really, we are agreeing more than we're disagreeing. As for the front office dysfunction, I'm talking about the leadup to Bird flying the coup. There was the Morway drama, the Pritchard question marks, the Bird comments about needing to know Herb was committed to spending to better the team, the oft-delayed Simon-Bird meeting, the Bird claim he was ready to return, the rumors swirling about Walsh's return... and finally things solidified and then the initial dysfunction was over with Morway gone, Bird gone, Walsh back, and Pritchard staying. But IMHO there was plenty of dysfunction at the end of the season.

Kemo
09-02-2012, 08:04 PM
I think some of you, your brain short circuits when there isn't anything negative to talk about so you make up crap with hollow arguments just to have something to "female dog" about

xBulletproof
09-02-2012, 08:51 PM
Sometimes, I feel like this place is a never ending whine-fest. People expect a superstar to be added to this team every season, and throw an online hissy fit when it doesn't happen.

If the players we added continue to play like they have now that they're on the Pacers, should we be better? Yes. If our young players improve should we be better? Yes. A combination of these things will make us quite a bit better. So, it's not a stretch to imagine this team is better than last year, and isn't that the goal of the off season?

Granted, I'm not one of the people who's screaming you have to do something NOW if you EVER want to win a title, or omg you're soooo not trying to win!! As long as you don't have a team full of Murphleavy contracts then opportunities will present themselves to get better.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 08:51 PM
I think some of you, your brain short circuits when there isn't anything super Positive to talk about so you make up crap with hollow arguments like the ones were the Pacers are going to win a championship and have improved so much so if people disagrees with you you just have something to "female dog" And cry about

Fixed

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 09:47 PM
Sometimes, I feel like this place is a never ending whine-fest.

It looks to me like the "cry and whine-fest" is done by those that all they want to hear is positivity coming out of people's a**.

There is not rainbows or balloons coming out of people's a** so let's complain, cry and b**** about how non-positive some people are, every single thread on this forum is getting hijacked by the crying, b***** and whining from the "positive group" but yeah it is the "negative ones" fault.....

Nuntius
09-02-2012, 09:57 PM
It looks to me like the "cry and whine-fest" is done by those that all they want to hear is positivity coming out of people's a**.

There is not rainbows or balloons coming out of people's a** so let's complain, cry and b**** about how non-positive some people are, every single thread on this forum is getting hijacked by the crying, b***** and whining from the "positive group" but yeah it is the "negative ones" fault.....

Actually, the hijacking starts from the negative posts.

Just look at this thread.

The Pacers are reported to have signed Blake Ahearn, a PG that will fill our 14th spot and is a great FT shooter.

Towards the end of the first page the first negative comments pops up (this off-season = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz). And the thread gets derailed from there on.

How long did we talk about the guy we signed? Not even for a full page.

Kemo
09-02-2012, 10:04 PM
and vnzla ALWAYS is either the ringleader or one of the main ones.. it gets real tiresome..

dal9
09-02-2012, 10:05 PM
How long did we talk about the guy we signed? Not even for a full page.
how much is there to say? it's a guy none of us has probably ever seen play, who has shot about .300 in the NBA.

Nuntius
09-02-2012, 10:13 PM
how much is there to say? it's a guy none of us has probably ever seen play, who has shot about .300 in the NBA.

Actually, we all have seen him play. If you watched the Pacers vs Jazz SL game then you have seen him.

As for his percentages, I will counter the .273 FG% with his .970 FT% ;)

And my point is not really to talk about Ahearn. Personally, I like it as a signing but I said all I had to say in the first page as well.

My point was that there's no need to derail a thread so much. Is this signing the reason that people don't like this off-season? I doubt it.

Bball
09-02-2012, 10:54 PM
Okay. So you're trying to convince us the all/most of the casual fans or potential fans were bored by our summer? Fair enough.

Now why would you or I care if they are or not? What's the point of this?

Below answers this-


This whole Indy is a bandwagon town is starting to get tiring.

Yes, Indy is a bandwagon town. Most towns are just like that. Wanna know why? Because most towns consist of casual fans. And casual fans tend to jump on and off bandwagons. That's the whole reason that they are called casual fans.

I hate the 'small market pity party, basketball Siberia discussions' and I hate the 'Indy sucks as a sports team because fans are fair weather, bandwagoners'. Indy is no different than most cities.

xBulletproof
09-02-2012, 11:25 PM
It looks to me like the "cry and whine-fest" is done by those that all they want to hear is positivity coming out of people's a**.

There is not rainbows or balloons coming out of people's a** so let's complain, cry and b**** about how non-positive some people are, every single thread on this forum is getting hijacked by the crying, b***** and whining from the "positive group" but yeah it is the "negative ones" fault.....

I know, I know. It's never you.

Except it is.

vnzla81
09-02-2012, 11:43 PM
I know, I know. It's never us the cry babies and the "victims"

Except it is.

Fixed.

rock747
09-02-2012, 11:59 PM
This signing really has me excited for the season to start.

J7F
09-03-2012, 12:24 AM
We had a really good team last year... They proved that they could compete with anybody... We got wins last season over every contender not named San Antonio... We had a series lead over the eventual champs... Our core is fairly young and improving... And the two starters that aren't still on the upswing of their careers are surly veterans with fire in their bellies that delivered good things for us last season... Though not perfect they are solid... We have Roy Hibbert who could be top 3-5 at his position this year... We have Paul George who is a near complete basketball player... He can do it all sans a few things... Namely ball handling, muscling up, and keeping focus... All fixable... He's your young high lotto talent that we didnt get in the rebuild years... If they redrafted that class today PG would be a top 5 pick... We have George Hill... A hometown kid that plays great D at the PG position and has ice in his veins in crunch time... All five of these guys are going to build on their cohesion from last year... They will have an advantage over the other teams for at least the first quarter of the season and beyond if they just keep building on it...

I don't see what major move that absolutely needed to happen this year didnt get done by management... Outside of praying that Steve Nash or Deron Williams would see the light that signing in Indy would be the best move for them... Well guess what guys... They obviously didn't see it that way... We move on... We should have been players for Elton Brand and Louis Scola... But the agents for Roy and GHill had set time tables for when we had to sign them... If we didn't abide Roy would have signed the Portland offer effectively holding our cap hostage until we matched (meaning no cap space for even Gerald Green, DJ Augustin, or Ian Mihinmi let alone Brand and Scola)... Or lost Roy for nothing or a bag of chips in a sign and trade... We would have then been left with cap space... But to sign who on the FA market that would have made an impact that Roy is capable of... We should have picked PJ33 (or any of about 5-7 second rounders some posters think will be miles better than Miles) over Miles... Miami traded away the pick immediately after ours for nothing... It was a serious crap shoot for any team picking in this range to pick up a serious value player... The people hating on our draft night performance act like we blew a high lotto pick or something...

People expected a fairy tale to happen in the offseason... Can't we just see how our current fairy tell ends? We are right in the middle of the ugly duckling... We had a roster full of middle first round draft picks and some terrible contracts to boot and in a short time turned into the 5th best team in the NBA who fought valiantly with the eventual champs... I don't think we've seen how this one ends yet...

And if it turns out that we aren't a swan THEN we start rebuilding this lineup...

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 12:34 AM
Below answers this-

I hate the 'small market pity party, basketball Siberia discussions' and I hate the 'Indy sucks as a sports team because fans are fair weather, bandwagoners'. Indy is no different than most cities.

Are you sure that you read what I wrote?

I wrote that Indy is a bandwagon city just like most cities. There's nothing wrong or unnatural in that. It's just what happens.

Casual fans tend to jump on and off bandwagons like no other. They follow the hype.

Why should we give a damn about it? That's what I don't get.

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 01:09 AM
Fixed.

vnzla, I didn't want to do this as I hate pointing fingers but your audacity is forcing me to do this.

Let's revisit this thread.

1st negative post:


Finally the rebuilding proccess is over I smell a Championship :dance:

2nd negative post:



Who?

This offseason = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

3rd negative post:



You got that right...
I don't want to hear anyone crying about the media (and fan) love the Colts are and will be getting. The Pacers made their bed with this BLAH off season. Hopefully the moves they made were the right ones because otherwise they haven't exactly stoked the fire any.


And it's only after Bball's post that people started responding to the negativity. Why? Because Bball's post is the first post that actually derails the thread by analyzing things that are off-topic.

So, once again you are wrong. It's you that started with the negativity. And then people responded.

Don't you like it when people respond to you? Do you feel that people are unjust to you and victimize you?

Here's an idea:

Stop stiring the pot each and every time you get the tiniest chance!

You cannot provoke people constantly and expect them to be ok with this.

To make matters worse, in this case it wasn't even you who made the biggest deal about it or derailed the thread so much. It's just that you tried to come out on top with those "fixes" of yours. That's the worst part.

Trader Joe
09-03-2012, 02:16 AM
How Vnzla keeps trapping you in some of his negativity fests never ceases to amaze me. We all know where he stands by now, what's the point of even beating your head into a wall over it? He will not be happy until our starting lineup is Russell Westbrook, Monta Ellis, Lebron, Blake Griffin, and Dwight Howard.

Trader Joe
09-03-2012, 02:17 AM
Uh? What the 2004 Piston and Reggie have to do anything with what I'm saying? Are you trying to compare Detroit of 04 with the Pacers this year? and if you are I don't really know what to tell you...

You would really take Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett over Roy Hibbert? If so, I don't know what to tell you. There is only one guy on that Celtics roster that is significantly better than anyone on the Pacers and he happens to maybe be the most well rounded point guard in the entire game of basketball. It's hilarious to me that when people defend the Celtics now they almost always bring up KG and PP before Rondo...uh, without Rondo, I think you'd be seeing a little different aging process for Garnett and Pierce.

What I'm trying to figure out is how by the time I checked the thread you guys had gone from discussing the 14th man on the roster to talking about how we compare to the Boston Celtics, that seems like it would take a pretty major leap of logic.

Bball
09-03-2012, 02:42 AM
Are you sure that you read what I wrote?

I wrote that Indy is a bandwagon city just like most cities. There's nothing wrong or unnatural in that. It's just what happens.

Casual fans tend to jump on and off bandwagons like no other. They follow the hype.



And I am agreeing with that and don't have an issue with it. I think it's natural and to be expected. I have a problem when people start putting down Indy fans as if most other cities' fans would be filling the arena whether their team was 10-50 or 60-0. That's not true.

With the way the season finished and the nature of the offseason I am predicting attendance won't be especially improved this season. And I expect the questions and comments about Indy's fickle nature, fairweather fans, bandwagoners to soon follow from some quarters. ...And I'm saying either accept that type of support as the way it is most everywhere or look at the team's offseason and tell me what was done to excite the casual fans.

As for the thread derail comment... the discussion about Blake was basically done and it led to some related paths. One thing I don't like about forums these days (not just here) is the old forum software versions you'd have a threaded view that would easily allow side discussions to follow their own path.

That's all this discussion has done- Pacers sign Blake this offseason... Here's who Blake is....Little more on Blake... Blake isn't very exciting... This offseason isn't very exciting...
It all ties together. It's not like someone posted about a '69 Mustang with no thread to tie it to the discussion.

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 03:01 AM
As for the thread derail comment... the discussion about Blake was basically done and it led to some related paths. One thing I don't like about forums these days (not just here) is the old forum software versions you'd have a threaded view that would easily allow side discussions to follow their own path.

That's all this discussion has done- Pacers sign Blake this offseason... Here's who Blake is....Little more on Blake... Blake isn't very exciting... This offseason isn't very exciting...
It all ties together. It's not like someone posted about a '69 Mustang with no thread to tie it to the discussion.

Well, I certainly think that all the in-between arguing could be avoided but fair enough.

wintermute
09-03-2012, 03:07 AM
What I'm trying to figure out is how by the time I checked the thread you guys had gone from discussing the 14th man on the roster to talking about how we compare to the Boston Celtics, that seems like it would take a pretty major leap of logic.

He's not even the 14th man yet... he's a training camp signee with a partial guarantee. Are we going to go through all this for every training camp invitee? Because that would be incredibly lame.

Look, I understand that people aren't happy with our offseason. I'm not all that thrilled either. But there are better places to make your views known. Like, how about an offseason report card thread? Or somebody had a "Pacers won't win a championship in the next 5 years" thread not too long ago. Go knock yourselves out. Just please don't crap all over the only thread with a bit of news; it drives the people who actually want to discuss the news up the wall.

Spare a thought for those of us who like to obsess over every scrub the Pacers sign to camp. Spoiler alert, none of these guys will be future All-Stars. Making the team will be achievement enough for them.

Bball
09-03-2012, 04:33 AM
Well, I certainly think that all the in-between arguing could be avoided but fair enough.

I agree about the arguing but if someone asks a question you have to figure someone will attempt to answer it.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 07:46 AM
vnzla, I didn't want to do this as I hate pointing fingers but your audacity is forcing me to do this.

Let's revisit this thread.

1st negative post:



2nd negative post:




3rd negative post:





And it's only after Bball's post that people started responding to the negativity. Why? Because Bball's post is the first post that actually derails the thread by analyzing things that are off-topic.

So, once again you are wrong. It's you that started with the negativity. And then people responded.

Don't you like it when people respond to you? Do you feel that people are unjust to you and victimize you?

Here's an idea:

Stop stiring the pot each and every time you get the tiniest chance!

You cannot provoke people constantly and expect them to be ok with this.

To make matters worse, in this case it wasn't even you who made the biggest deal about it or derailed the thread so much. It's just that you tried to come out on top with those "fixes" of yours. That's the worst part.

It's no negative if it's true, you guys are getting all mad because we are criticizing the Pacers and you can't understand how anybody can't be excited about signing a bunch of scrubs, they didn't even sign one decent player but is Ok so let's get excited about some fake bench improvement.

You guys are the ones crying and whining anytime somebody doesn't agree with you, we all have to drink the "championship or the bench is improved wine" or else, stop crying about it, it doesn't matter how hard you try to get us excited about Mahinmi or Green is not going to happen and the quickest you accept that the better is going to be for you.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 07:50 AM
How Vnzla keeps trapping you in some of his negativity fests never ceases to amaze me. We all know where he stands by now, what's the point of even beating your head into a wall over it? He will not be happy until our starting lineup is Russell Westbrook, Monta Ellis, Lebron, Blake Griffin, and Dwight Howard.

Yep because nobody is beating their "heads against the wall" when talking to the "positive" crowd.... and nope I don't want a team like that so stop with that BS once again.

xBulletproof
09-03-2012, 09:20 AM
It's no negative if it's true

That's the only thing you ever think is true. Negative. I hope the rest of your life doesn't mirror this or you've got to be one miserable person.

Last year you'd have never thought we'd have the NBAs 5th best record, but when we did you just maintained the negativity and preached that it was only because of the shortened season. Instead of being happy about something, you complain that it's just luck we had a lockout. It's like you don't know how to enjoy something even as its happening. That's just sad.

I've never met you but from what you convey here I picture some perpetually angry guy who gets mad about everything and does nothing but look for things to complain about. I hope I am wrong, because nobody can be happy that way. Yet, if you're not that way, why does it come across like that so strongly here? Language barrier maybe? I dunno.

And no, your negativity isn't always true.

Sollozzo
09-03-2012, 09:26 AM
You would really take Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett over Roy Hibbert?


Of course if you were building a team, you'd take Roy because he is a decade younger. But last season after the all star break, both Pierce and Garnett were better than Roy. Garnett averaged 19 points and 10 rebounds in 20 playoff games last year. Wake me up when Roy is ever able to dominate like that on the offensive end.

Sollozzo
09-03-2012, 09:31 AM
I don't have all the answers as to why. What I do know is the players that wound up on the rosters of our rivals did not decide to come here. So the question is: Who did you believe was likely going to become a Pacer but ended up somewhere else?


What some of us would have liked to have seen is some *effort* at going after free agents. When Phoenix wanted Eric Gordon, it was leaked that they gave him an offer sheet. When Dallas wanted Deron Williams, it was leaked that they were after him hard.

You never heard any such leak about the Pacers going after a player. If we were recruiting a player hard, then it would have been leaked to the press because the Pacers would have wanted to show the fans that they were willing to go out and get a free agent. But nothing like that happened. We never even tried. I would have liked to have just seen some effort at going after a solid free agent. A net gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green is about as lame an offseason as you can get.

We are a very solid team and will win our fair share of games. But teams all around us improved this offseason while we really didn't do much of anything. It's going to be a dogfight getting out of the first round.

J7F
09-03-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm still waiting to hear from one of you armchair GMs as to what moves the Pacers could have REALISTICALLY made that would have made this summer not so boring for you?

Come on... What moves did Donnie Do Nothing completely whiff on this summer that almighty GM of the year in-waiting, you, could have gotten done that would have pushed us even closer to sniffing a championship?

J7F
09-03-2012, 09:51 AM
What some of us would have liked to have seen is some *effort* at going after free agents. When Phoenix wanted Eric Gordon, it was leaked that they gave him an offer sheet. When Dallas wanted Deron Williams, it was leaked that they were after him hard.

You never heard any such leak about the Pacers going after a player. If we were recruiting a player hard, then it would have been leaked to the press because the Pacers would have wanted to show the fans that they were willing to go out and get a free agent. But nothing like that happened. We never even tried. I would have liked to have just seen some effort at going after a solid free agent. A net gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green is about as lame an offseason as you can get.

We are a very solid team and will win our fair share of games. But teams all around us improved this offseason while we really didn't do much of anything. It's going to be a dogfight getting out of the first round.

So your main complaint is that you didn't read our name associated with those guys on Hoopshype? It's not that we didn't get them... It's that you weren't titillated with an empty rumor? This seems like pretty backwards thinking to me...

Did Eric end up in PHX? Did Deron end up in Dallas?

Did you ever consider that our FO would have loved to have obtained either of those players and sent out feelers only to realize it would be a colossal waste of time as they were most likely going to stay put or sign somewhere else?

MvPlumlee
09-03-2012, 09:53 AM
Nets, Celtics, Knicks... I can smell their fear now that we are close to signing this guy.

Finals, here we come!

J7F
09-03-2012, 10:00 AM
Nets, Celtics, Knicks... I can smell their fear now that we are close to signing this guy.

Finals, here we come!

Yeah... Because 14th men often draw fear from opponents...

Pacerized
09-03-2012, 10:09 AM
I'm still waiting to hear from one of you armchair GMs as to what moves the Pacers could have REALISTICALLY made that would have made this summer not so boring for you?
Come on... What moves did Donnie Do Nothing completely whiff on this summer that almighty GM of the year in-waiting, you, could have gotten done that would have pushed us even closer to sniffing a championship?

I'm not a doom and gloomer over this season but I posted the answer to this earlier. There were better moves to be made and DW could have and should have tried for these. Kaman already had a meeting with the Pacers and I think he would have taken the same offer from us as he did the Mavs, at least we should have put an offer on the table to him the minute we knew we were out of the Nash sweepstakes that we never entered. That is a huge upgrade over Ian and yes the cap space was there at the time. Failing to land Kaman we should have forced the agents of Hibbert and Hill to wait a few more days so we could land Scola. All that would have taken was to get the players on the side of the front office to try to improve the team they would be returning to. I think they would have realistically waited a few more days to sign their contracts if it meant losing nothing and having a better team. At least the F.O. should have tried and I don't think they did. If they did try then they should be transparent with their attempts for the fans sakes. The Mavs know that Cuban tried to get better so they don't have to question the effort.
In all, I still say we'll be the 2cd. best team in the east but we had the cap space to close the gap with Miami and we didn't. Some of us are unhappy with the F.O. but still happy with the team.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 10:15 AM
Here's an idea:

Stop stiring the pot each and every time you get the tiniest chance!

You cannot provoke people constantly and expect them to be ok with this.


Quoted for emphasis. He lays it on thicker than a bad Family Guy joke.

A little would go a long way.

We used to literally begin (and conclude as well) the Rules of Pacers Digest with, "Don't be a jerk." Maybe I should never have taken it out because some people have forgotten.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 10:15 AM
That's the only thing you ever think is true. Negative. I hope the rest of your life doesn't mirror this or you've got to be one miserable person.

Last year you'd have never thought we'd have the NBAs 5th best record, but when we did you just maintained the negativity and preached that it was only because of the shortened season. Instead of being happy about something, you complain that it's just luck we had a lockout. It's like you don't know how to enjoy something even as its happening. That's just sad.

I've never met you but from what you convey here I picture some perpetually angry guy who gets mad about everything and does nothing but look for things to complain about. I hope I am wrong, because nobody can be happy that way. Yet, if you're not that way, why does it come across like that so strongly here? Language barrier maybe? I dunno.

And no, your negativity isn't always true.

This is actually how I picture you:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9pivrxLMH1rqtrtgo2_500.jpg


I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those guys that used to get 3rd place trophies and probably has a room full of them, I wouldn't be surprised if your life is miserable because not everybody agrees with you in real life, you must throw a fit anytime somebody disagrees with you.

And nope my life is not miserable, my life is actually great unlike some people here....

MvPlumlee
09-03-2012, 10:19 AM
Yeah... Because 14th men often draw fear from opponents...
It's my way of saying who?????

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 10:21 AM
Quoted for emphasis. He lays it on thicker than a bad Family Guy joke.

A little would go a long way.

We used to literally begin (and conclude as well) the Rules of Pacers Digest with, "Don't be a jerk." Maybe I should never have taken it out because some people have forgotten.

Yep some people have forgotten, including you.

Coopdog23
09-03-2012, 10:31 AM
Is he good or just a bench warmer

Hicks
09-03-2012, 10:34 AM
What some of us would have liked to have seen is some *effort* at going after free agents. When Phoenix wanted Eric Gordon, it was leaked that they gave him an offer sheet. When Dallas wanted Deron Williams, it was leaked that they were after him hard.

You never heard any such leak about the Pacers going after a player.

It was pretty obvious New Orleans was going to match anything, so I don't blame them for not wasting time with that. Keep in mind it would have also fudged with everything else that was in the air at the time by temporarily locking up cap space had he signed here.

Deron Williams made it clear be was choosing between two cities, neither of which was Indianapolis (not our fault, just his interests). Dallas WAS one of the two, so they rightly went after him hard. I thought there was at least one report early on that we probed into it to see if there was any interest before the writing was on the wall, but I'm not sure. In any case, that was a fantasy, and I think the Pacers knew it even before Willams's people likely affirmed it before the final decision was made. And let's not forget it wasn't Dallas that got him even with all of that going for them, by the way.


If we were recruiting a player hard, then it would have been leaked to the press because the Pacers would have wanted to show the fans that they were willing to go out and get a free agent. But nothing like that happened. We never even tried. I would have liked to have just seen some effort at going after a solid free agent. A net gain of Mahinmi and Gerald Green is about as lame an offseason as you can get.

So after the two day dreams above, who else specifically?

Don't say Nash because he was choosing between Toronto, possibly New York, and ultimately went for the trade exception loophole that got him in LA because he would be close to his kids. Another fantasy.

So then who?

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 10:37 AM
Of course if you were building a team, you'd take Roy because he is a decade younger. But last season after the all star break, both Pierce and Garnett were better than Roy. Garnett averaged 19 points and 10 rebounds in 20 playoff games last year. Wake me up when Roy is ever able to dominate like that on the offensive end.

I was going to post this but why even bother?

Hicks
09-03-2012, 10:37 AM
It feels like some of you are mad that the Pacers didn't go out in free agency and buy a Powerball ticket just because you happen to think they had a decent chance of winning the Powerball for some reason.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 10:38 AM
It feels like some of you are mad that the Pacers didn't go out in free agency and buy a Powerball ticket just because you happen to think they had a decent chance of winning the Powerball for some reason.

Nobody was asking for a powerball ticket so stop it, the Pacers didn't even get a ticket to play at the one penny machine.

Pacerized
09-03-2012, 10:43 AM
Don't say Nash because he was choosing between Toronto, possibly New York, and ultimately went for the trade exception loophole that got him in LA because he would be close to his kids. Another fantasy.
So then who?

You have to at least try, you can't just give up. The team should have put our full cap space offer in writing to Nash on day 1. Failing that, make an offer to Kaman and finally go after Scola via amnesty. None of this happened or at least if it did the fans don't get to know.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 10:54 AM
I'm not a doom and gloomer over this season but I posted the answer to this earlier. There were better moves to be made and DW could have and should have tried for these. Kaman already had a meeting with the Pacers and I think he would have taken the same offer from us as he did the Mavs, at least we should have put an offer on the table to him the minute we knew we were out of the Nash sweepstakes that we never entered. That is a huge upgrade over Ian and yes the cap space was there at the time.

He signed with Dallas for one year, for $8m, to be their starting center (which will help him earn his next contract next summer), and to play with his Team Germany buddy who also happens to be a modern NBA legend in Dirk Nowitzki. You really think we were worth the same contract to him to come here and backup Roy? I don't.

I would have loved to have him as our backup C, but I just don't see him choosing us over that situation.



Failing to land Kaman we should have forced the agents of Hibbert and Hill to wait a few more days so we could land Scola.

Okay. There's two big problems with this. Number one, teams can't force agents like that. Number two, they didn't know at the time that Scola was going to be amnestied. That surprised everybody. It threw a wrench in the gears. It was a total '**** happens' that it played out the way it did, timing-wise. If Houston had sprung that surprise a few days earlier, things might have been different, but that did not happen and it was a surprise. Everyone seems to forget that no one knew this was going to happen until it happened.



All that would have taken was to get the players on the side of the front office to try to improve the team they would be returning to. I think they would have realistically waited a few more days to sign their contracts if it meant losing nothing and having a better team.

I would love to be a fly on the wall during this communication between our front office and the players, but short of that I don't know why it doesn't work this way. But apparently doesn't. If we learned nothing else about the lockout, it's that agents tend to be the tail wagging the dog, so my somewhat educated guess is that the agents are only willing to wait a short bit before insisting things get done, and typically the players just listen to their agents and go on from there.

Walsh and Pritchard are very smart people. If they thought for a second they could enforce their will on that situation, I'm sure they would have. I really believe that. Before this played out, that's actually what I thought was going to happen. But I was wrong. So I have to conclude that it was just not going to happen in this case. I dreamed otherwise, but it was just fantasy.


At least the F.O. should have tried and I don't think they did.

It's just not possible to know because we aren't privy to all that is said and done behind closed doors and on the phone. Applying logic to what we do know suggests this conclusion of yours is unlikely the truth, unfortunately.


If they did try then they should be transparent with their attempts for the fans sakes. The Mavs know that Cuban tried to get better so they don't have to question the effort.

I agree that if they did make their efforts more transparent in cases like this, it would be pacifying for the fanbase. But at the same time, they certainly don't need to and it's not the kind of thing worth being upset about, either. Some teams like to keep this stuff in house when possible. Bird was often like that, too.

It's usually when a team makes a big push to a big free agent that it leaks out, like it did last year with us and Nene. Yet even David West didn't leak until it was practically done. If he had gone to Boston, we (the fans) may not have even known how close we (the Pacers) came to getting him.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 10:57 AM
You have to at least try, you can't just give up. The team should have put our full cap space offer in writing to Nash on day 1. Failing that, make an offer to Kaman and finally go after Scola via amnesty. None of this happened or at least if it did the fans don't get to know.

He didn't want to be here. He had better choices. Why does it bother you so much that in those circumstances we didn't do this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-j379JbL-xM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

???

Come on.

J7F
09-03-2012, 11:10 AM
I'm not a doom and gloomer over this season but I posted the answer to this earlier. There were better moves to be made and DW could have and should have tried for these. Kaman already had a meeting with the Pacers and I think he would have taken the same offer from us as he did the Mavs, at least we should have put an offer on the table to him the minute we knew we were out of the Nash sweepstakes that we never entered. That is a huge upgrade over Ian and yes the cap space was there at the time. Failing to land Kaman we should have forced the agents of Hibbert and Hill to wait a few more days so we could land Scola. All that would have taken was to get the players on the side of the front office to try to improve the team they would be returning to. I think they would have realistically waited a few more days to sign their contracts if it meant losing nothing and having a better team. At least the F.O. should have tried and I don't think they did. If they did try then they should be transparent with their attempts for the fans sakes. The Mavs know that Cuban tried to get better so they don't have to question the effort.
In all, I still say we'll be the 2cd. best team in the east but we had the cap space to close the gap with Miami and we didn't. Some of us are unhappy with the F.O. but still happy with the team.

I agree that logic would dictate that the players would have been serving themselves better to tell their agents to take a chill pill and let more unfold before signing the dotted line... But that obviously didn't happen or we would be sitting here with Brand and/or Scola on our roster... I wish they would speak out about it too... But only because the natives are obviously restless about it...

And I'm not so sure Kaman would have signed the same contract with us that he signed with Dallas... When we were in discussions with him Hibbert's status was still up in the air... Meaning at the time Kaman would have been slotted as our starting Center... But when Hibbert situation resolved Kaman was looking at a bench role with us... That makes a huge difference to a FA when deciding who to sign with... Start along side his HOF team Germany BFF in Dallas or be a sixth man at best in Indiana... For about the same money... Decisions... Decisions...

And despite my feelings that the most important move we needed to make this offseason (Behind praying for Nash or Williams) was to get major insurance at the backup Center spot (due to the fact that Roy can't play big minutes because of asthma and being the size of the incredible hulk... Along with the fact that he falls down 5 times a game and it always looks dangerous because a tree is falling)... So Kaman would have been a huge pick up IMO... But I am happier and more excited to see what the fresh blood of DJ/Lance/Green/Tyler/Mihinmi/Miles brings as opposed to a hypothetical DC/Lance/Dahntay/Tyler/Kaman/Miles combo...

I don't know... Maybe I'm more excited to see Green and DJ than some of you are... These guys still have lots of potential and have chips on their shoulders needing to prove themselves now or never...

Ian is a solid b/u C that somewhat satisfies my desire for C insurance... And we also picked up Miles who I think will be wet behind the ears but could show flashes of solid play... I think it's silly to expect much more from a late pick C...

pwee31
09-03-2012, 11:30 AM
I'll view this forum still, but very rarely post anymore as there's simply too many immature posters these days. You get tired of blocking everyone b/c every once in a while that person says something that's reasonable. I often wonder if some of you are actual Pacers fans with how often you complain about things as if you're the owner, and the ones spending millions of dollars on this team.

The funniest part is regardless of how well the team is doing, you pounce at the first opportunity to complain about something else instead of enjoying the teams success. I'm no admin, but some of you belong on ESPN or RealGM boards, and actually shouldn't have the privilege of posting on this site. Yes you can disagree with his ways, or opinions, but the way some of you treat Hicks is extremely disrespectful when you wouldn't even have this site if it wasn't for him.

beast23
09-03-2012, 11:40 AM
Quoted for emphasis. He lays it on thicker than a bad Family Guy joke.

A little would go a long way.

We used to literally begin (and conclude as well) the Rules of Pacers Digest with, "Don't be a jerk." Maybe I should never have taken it out because some people have forgotten.

The problem really isn't that he stirs the pot. The problem is that he doesn't get the fact that he constantly stirs the pot. He honestly believes that he is adding something through the actions he takes. He just doesn't get it and most of us don't get that he will NEVER get it. His defense mechanisms are that strong.

Sandman21
09-03-2012, 11:48 AM
He will not be happy until our starting lineup is Russell Westbrook, Monta Ellis, Lebron, Blake Griffin, and Dwight Howard.
You forgot Cheeseburger Boris Diaw coming off the bench.

Dr. Awesome
09-03-2012, 11:53 AM
This is actually how I picture you:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9pivrxLMH1rqtrtgo2_500.jpg


I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those guys that used to get 3rd place trophies and probably has a room full of them, I wouldn't be surprised if your life is miserable because not everybody agrees with you in real life, you must throw a fit anytime somebody disagrees with you.

And nope my life is not miserable, my life is actually great unlike some people here....
I'm 24 years old and I find this extremely immature. Hell, I probably would have found that immature when I was 17/18. Your profile is claiming you are 31. I call BS.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 12:53 PM
The problem really isn't that he stirs the pot. The problem is that he doesn't get the fact that he constantly stirs the pot. He honestly believes that he is adding something through the actions he takes. He just doesn't get it and most of us don't get that he will NEVER get it. His defense mechanisms are that strong.

Agreed. That's what I was trying to say when I said a little goes a long way. Stirring the pot once in a while is all well and good, but constantly applying these...

http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/999/112/236/1267171485592_hz_cnmyalibaba_web2_427.JPG

...to the pot is extreme and overkill.

Coopdog23
09-03-2012, 01:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 01:12 PM
I think is great to see that PD haven't change even with a new (less sensitive) administrator, the double standard here is at is highest, I get an infraction for posting a picture while nothing happens to the people pilling on and calling other people names.

I get it, the "PD clean up job" is at work at this moment, really sad.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 01:25 PM
I'm 24 years old and I find this extremely immature. Hell, I probably would have found that immature when I was 17/18. Your profile is claiming you are 31. I call BS.

Don't get mad at me if you were the recipient of those trophies.

ReginaldWayne
09-03-2012, 01:25 PM
What I am trying to understand is, if this person has over 18,000 posts of "you're too sensitive, you're too positive, you don't like when people disagree with you," and the bubble boy, along with completely invaluable opinions with no depth of basketball knowledge at all, then why are we not allowed to just toss him? His sole purpose on this site is to irritate people. Reminds me of when I was 15 and used to log on to my friends Redskins message board and say things just to **** people off. And no body likes this person, nobody. Save maybe one or two that I have seen. Why cant we make for a better message board and just toss him?

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 01:27 PM
What I am trying to understand is, if this person has over 18,000 posts of "you're too sensitive, you're too positive, you don't like when people disagree with you," and the bubble boy, along with completely invaluable opinions with no depth of basketball knowledge at all, then why are we not allowed to just toss him? His sole purpose on this site is to irritate people. Reminds me of when I was 15 and used to log on to my friends Redskins message board and say things just to **** people off. And no body likes this person, nobody. Save maybe one or two that I have seen. Why cant we make for a better message board and just toss him?

Nice to see that some people agree with free speech.....

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 01:28 PM
I agree about the arguing but if someone asks a question you have to figure someone will attempt to answer it.

No one asked a question, though ;)

ReginaldWayne
09-03-2012, 01:32 PM
I am not going to reply to your reply to this message as I dont want to participate in this beyond that. But I just don't get why you want to be somewhere where you aren't wanted. You are not wanted here. You aren't liked here. So why stay here(rhetorical).

xBulletproof
09-03-2012, 01:49 PM
It's funny I leave and come back and vnzla is making jokes about me and my willingness to be satisfied with 3rd place, because I went out with a friend and while we were there the friend who rarely (if ever) posts here was making sarcastic jokes about vnzla and his concepts about winning.

We ended up at Castleton Mall and he looked at it and went ... "Man, you can tell this is a Simon Mall, this place seems content to just sit here.". Then a train was driving kids around inside the mall, and he looks at me and goes ... "Well, I can tell this is a Simon Mall now .... here comes the train of contentment".

Rather ironic, actually. Even though I didn't do it. :laugh:

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 01:51 PM
Agreed. That's what I was trying to say when I said a little goes a long way. Stirring the pot once in a while is all well and good, but constantly applying these...

http://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/999/112/236/1267171485592_hz_cnmyalibaba_web2_427.JPG

...to the pot is extreme and overkill.

Overkill is the crying and whining from the "positive people", the you are either in our side or else is also overkill, there is a reason why I blocked you on twitter, I couldn't deal with the constant complaining and whining about how "negative" PD has become, it looks like everybody has to be in one side or you are getting removed from PD.

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 02:04 PM
It's no negative if it's true, you guys are getting all mad because we are criticizing the Pacers and you can't understand how anybody can't be excited about signing a bunch of scrubs, they didn't even sign one decent player but is Ok so let's get excited about some fake bench improvement.

You guys are the ones crying and whining anytime somebody doesn't agree with you, we all have to drink the "championship or the bench is improved wine" or else, stop crying about it, it doesn't matter how hard you try to get us excited about Mahinmi or Green is not going to happen and the quickest you accept that the better is going to be for you.

1) The truthness of a statement has nothing to do with said statement being negative or positive. Yes, it can be true and negative. Similarly, it can be true and positive. However, in that case we're merely talking about opinions. And opinions cannot be proven to be true or false. They are just that. Opinions. Some are positive and others are negative. It's as simple as that.

2) I can understand why some people cannot be excited about "signing a bunch of scrubs" as you put it. Of course, some people will never be excited about any signing but that's their own problem.

3) About the "fake bench improvement". Have you see the new bench play? No? Then how can you judge that it will be a "fake improvement"? Don't you think that we have to wait and see what happens before judging?

But no. Let's just criticize just for the sake of criticizing :rolleyes:

4) You have every right to your opinion. You have every right to disagree with me. I don't "whine and cry" about you having a "different" opinion. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm not trying to get you excited.

What I'm trying to say is this. Do you want to express how you feel that our off-season sucks? Do it in the right thread.

I came to this thread to talk about Blake Ahearn. Not to listen to your whining. So cut it off. It's annoying.

5) Oh, and about Gerald Green. Don't be a hypocrite. You were excited about him when he was on the Nets. You also liked DJ Augustin more than DC.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 02:19 PM
1) The truthness of a statement has nothing to do with said statement being negative or positive. Yes, it can be true and negative. Similarly, it can be true and positive. However, in that case we're merely talking about opinions. And opinions cannot be proven to be true or false. They are just that. Opinions. Some are positive and others are negative. It's as simple as that.

2) I can understand why some people cannot be excited about "signing a bunch of scrubs" as you put it. Of course, some people will never be excited about any signing but that's their own problem.

3) About the "fake bench improvement". Have you see the new bench play? No? Then how can you judge that it will be a "fake improvement"? Don't you think that we have to wait and see what happens before judging?

But no. Let's just criticize just for the sake of criticizing :rolleyes:

4) You have every right to your opinion. You have every right to disagree with me. I don't "whine and cry" about you having a "different" opinion. I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm not trying to get you excited.

What I'm trying to say is this. Do you want to express how you feel that our off-season sucks? Do it in the right thread.

I came to this thread to talk about Blake Ahearn. Not to listen to your whining. So cut it off. It's annoying.

5) Oh, and about Gerald Green. Don't be a hypocrite. You were excited about him when he was on the Nets. You also liked DJ Augustin more than DC.

Nobody wants to talk about Blake Ahearn stop it :laugh:

And yes I like Augustin over DC but the price paid to get him was to high in my opinion.

J7F
09-03-2012, 02:38 PM
I, personally, like VNZLA being a member of this board... I like to hear differing opinions to get me thinking... He actually keeps me a little more grounded sometimes because without his constant cynicism my naturally hopeful mind can really get my hopes up... For example: My natural thought is that we will easily be better than Boston this year... Mainly because I keep expecting age to really catch up to them... But maybe VNZLA could be right and Boston could delay their inevitable decline for another year... If it happens I might be slightly less let down thanks to his efforts... But I'm sure I won't enjoy his I told you so's if it goes down like that :)

There is just one thing that drives me crazy about him... If you refute him well he often just stops posting on the subject and defers to something or someone else... He rarely gives even the slightest hint that he might be thinking on the positive side of ANYTHING... It brightened my outlook on the Pacers only a few times towards the end of last season when I saw even VNZLA seemed hyped about our team... I'm happy for him to be happy with his real life because due to the nature of how things come across on a message board for a sports team I also picture him being a real negative person in life... That probably is not the case though...

I also think he has proven to be very good at adding news content to the board...

I wouldn't even consider putting him on ignore despite how he can drive me up a wall...

Pacer Fan
09-03-2012, 02:54 PM
I have read some of these post and I want to say, "what's new"? I guess some are bored right now!

Anyways, I do want to comment on something that bothers me a bit and I have been soaking on this awhile now... It's about the timing of FA, UFA's (our guys) and Amnesty. Some, including myself have done the numbers of Pacers cap and holds. The numbers don't lie and there was room to bid on Brand and Scola even with the signing of Hibbert and Hill. I also understand that Hibbert was force fed to the Pacers and that his contract needed to be signed promptly. However, Hill could have waited as no NBA team would have offered him what the Pacers signed him to and therefore, Pacers had all the time needed to sign Brand or Scola. This also would have allowed Pacers to sign another mid level contract as Hill's cap hold was under 4mil. and Pacers can sign there own being over the cap. Conclusion is obvious here, Simon don't want to spend the money to make this team a championship team. He doesn't want to go into luxury tax like the big boys! He is content with mediocrity for competition through conservatism. I don't hate him for this and I will continue to love and to watch our Pacers with a competitive spirit, but to all that want more (Vnzla81 & others)...You may be rooting for the wrong team as this never good enough attitude can't be healthy.

J7F
09-03-2012, 03:12 PM
I have read some of these post and I want to say, "what's new"? I guess some are bored right now!

Anyways, I do want to comment on something that bothers me a bit and I have been soaking on this awhile now... It's about the timing of FA, UFA's (our guys) and Amnesty. Some, including myself have done the numbers of Pacers cap and holds. The numbers don't lie and there was room to bid on Brand and Scola even with the signing of Hibbert and Hill. I also understand that Hibbert was force fed to the Pacers and that his contract needed to be signed promptly. However, Hill could have waited as no NBA team would have offered him what the Pacers signed him to and therefore, Pacers had all the time needed to sign Brand or Scola. This also would have allowed Pacers to sign another mid level contract as Hill's cap hold was under 4mil. and Pacers can sign there own being over the cap. Conclusion is obvious here, Simon don't want to spend the money to make this team a championship team. He doesn't want to go into luxury tax like the big boys! He is content with mediocrity for competition through conservatism. I don't hate him for this and I will continue to love and to watch our Pacers with a competitive spirit, but to all that want more (Vnzla81 & others)...You may be rooting for the wrong team as this never good enough attitude can't be healthy.

Honest question... Because I dont remember seeing someone break down the timeline... How much room did we have when the bidding happened vs what the winning bids for Brand and Scola were?

Can you maybe post a timeline of all the signings and their cap impacts at the time of signing?

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Honest question... Because I dont remember seeing someone break down the timeline... How much room did we have when the bidding happened vs what the winning bids for Brand and Scola were?

Can you maybe post a timeline of all the signings and their cap impacts at the time of signing?

Brand was like two hours and Scola was a day, Scola is going to make 3mil and Brand 2mil I think.

Bball
09-03-2012, 04:13 PM
Perhaps things would go smoother if there was less acceptance of the idea it's OK to beat up on the guy(s) who hold a negative opinion or make a negative comment?

If you want to challenge them then you have to assume there will be a reply. So why keep the challenges up?

EDIT: And BTW.... the thread is still open so anyone that wants to talk about Blake Ahearn is free to do so, so I don't understand the complaints that somehow people are being deprived of talking about him here.

:02:

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 04:17 PM
Nobody wants to talk about Blake Ahearn stop it :laugh:


You can laugh as you want but that's what this thread is about. To talk about Blake Ahearn.

Do you want to comment about the Pacer's off-season? You have every right to do it. But not in this thread.

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 04:27 PM
Perhaps things would go smoother if there was less acceptance of the idea it's OK to beat up on the guy(s) who hold a negative opinion or make a negative comment?


It's not OK to beat up on anyone.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 04:27 PM
You can laugh as you want but that's what this thread is about. To talk about Blake Ahearn.

Do you want to comment about the Pacer's off-season? You have every right to do it. But not in this thread.

Even if posted a comment on a thread made about the Pacers off-season I would get the same crying and whining reaction so stop acting like I got that reaction because I made a comment on the "whatever this guy name is" thread.

And also as Bball said you can still comment on the guy I don't see anybody blocking or holding you back.

Nuntius
09-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Even if posted a comment on a thread made about the Pacers off-season I would get the same crying and whining reaction so stop acting like I got that reaction because I made a comment on the "whatever this guy name is" thread.

And also as Bball said you can still comment on the guy I don't see anybody blocking or holding you back.

There's a huge difference, though. Want to know this?

The people who would post in the off-season thread would be interested to talk about it.

On the other hand, I have no interest to talk about the off-season.

By derailing the thread from Blake Ahearn to Pacers off-season you're shoving down peoples' throats topic that do not really interest them.

Strummer
09-03-2012, 04:53 PM
It's not OK to beat up on anyone.


I like that about Pacers Digest. But I think it's also a problem with Pacers Digest.

I've been mulling this theory for awhile.

Just like any forum we have our share of less stable posters. Since we aren't allowed to attack each other on this forum, they have to look for their kicks in other ways. They do it by attacking the team.

One will become the "I hate Danny" guy. Another will be the "Let's keep talking about the old coach guy". Another will be the "front office doesn't know anything guy".

So they play those roles over and over again trying to get the conflict they desire. It doesn't matter that the team greatly exceeded expectations last year. It doesn't matter that the team had one of their best seasons ever. It doesn't matter that we've made many positive moves over the summer to improve the team and take the next step.

None of that matters to them. They're just here for the conflict and since they can't attack other posters, they're going to attack the team. And we all suffer.

I've been thinking about suggesting that the forum go to two sections like "The Old Red Guard" cincinnati reds forum. One for veteran posters that know how to follow forum rules and are there for the right reasons. Another for newbies and everyone else that just likes to poke at people. I'd gladly trade my posting privileges for the ability to read the respected posters without all the clutter.

Clutter like this post of mine.

Oh, and I love the Ahearn signing. Lets see if he can become our new Joey Hasset!

J7F
09-03-2012, 05:06 PM
But did we even have 2 million to bid on either player after signing Hibbert and Hill? I thought that is what PF was saying? Or was he saying we just could have bid but not actually won it?

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 05:09 PM
There's a huge difference, though. Want to know this?

The people who would post in the off-season thread would be interested to talk about it.

On the other hand, I have no interest to talk about the off-season.

By derailing the thread from Blake Ahearn to Pacers off-season you're shoving down peoples' throats topic that do not really interest them.

Nobody was shoving nothing, the overreaction by a couple of no so positive posts and some jokes highjacked the thread, the "victim playing and crying" highjacked the thread.

Eleazar
09-03-2012, 05:13 PM
You have to at least try, you can't just give up. The team should have put our full cap space offer in writing to Nash on day 1. Failing that, make an offer to Kaman and finally go after Scola via amnesty. None of this happened or at least if it did the fans don't get to know.


These people are ****ing professionals, they get paid to go out there and try to get FAs to come here, and if they don't they don't have a job. To act like they didn't try is ridiculous. They never were just sitting on their asses twirling in their chairs counting the dollars going into their bank accounts. They were there working on getting players to come to the Pacers. Just because you don't see every little phone call, or action does not mean it does not happen. It just means you don't see it happen. It is far more likely that players like Deron Williams or Nash got a call from the Pacers than it was they didn't. Hell they even had a meeting with Gordon.

Stop acting like if it isn't in the media it didn't happen. Start using your brains for what it is there for. We aren't talking about a bunch of high school kids, we are talking about professionals.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 05:14 PM
Perhaps things would go smoother if there was less acceptance of the idea it's OK to beat up on the guy(s) who hold a negative opinion or make a negative comment?

Are you honestly contending that the only reason people say anything about vnzla81 is that his opinions are negative? Really? Really?

I can't speak for the others, but let me speak for myself: I often disagree with him, but that's not my problem with him.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
09-03-2012, 05:14 PM
never freaking heard of him.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Are you honestly contending that the only reason people say anything about vnzla81 is that his opinions are negative? Really? Really?

I can't speak for the others, but let me speak for myself: I often disagree with him, but that's not my problem with him.

And you finally admit it publicly that you have a problem with me, you always have, I've been telling Bills the same thing for years now.

Edit: and this prove my previous complaints of double standards in PD were whoever the administrators agree with are free to do whatever they want while those that they administrators don't agree with are always under the microcoscope and are always getting penalties for doing the same things other members(who the administrators like) do.

Coopdog23
09-03-2012, 05:45 PM
never freaking heard of him.

apparently he's from the d-league

Natston
09-03-2012, 05:48 PM
never freaking heard of him.

He's not KG or Paul Pierce apparently...

Bball
09-03-2012, 06:13 PM
Are you honestly contending that the only reason people say anything about vnzla81 is that his opinions are negative? Really? Really?

I can't speak for the others, but let me speak for myself: I often disagree with him, but that's not my problem with him.

Maybe I don't pay enough attention...

Cousy47
09-03-2012, 06:34 PM
So what did you think was going to happen?

There's a difference between what would have been nice and what was really ever probable.
This question was not for me, but I got really excited about the Steve Nash possibility. Unti I qut dreaming and realized that Nash had his choice of the NBA, wanted a real shot at a ring in the 2-3 years he intended to play and probably had no interest in helping an up and coming theam that was 3-5 years and a couple of players away. I also wanted to go after Kamen but IMO if we had told Hibbert to wait for us to sign a guy who very well might take his position Hibbs would be in Portland this year. First time poster, be gentle.

Trader Joe
09-03-2012, 06:36 PM
Don't get mad at me if you were the recipient of those trophies.

We all can't be as big a winner as you Vnzla that much is clear. You must have a room full of first place trophies.

Trader Joe
09-03-2012, 06:38 PM
Overkill is the crying and whining from the "positive people", the you are either in our side or else is also overkill, there is a reason why I blocked you on twitter, I couldn't deal with the constant complaining and whining about how "negative" PD has become, it looks like everybody has to be in one side or you are getting removed from PD.

How can you say this with a straight face after over 18K posts on this forum? You act like you are always getting banned or something.

For someone who always talks about being a winner you certainly are fantastic at playing the victim.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 06:41 PM
We all can't be as big a winner as you Vnzla that much is clear. You must have a room full of first place trophies.

Nope I don't have any trophies.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 06:44 PM
How can you say this with a straight face after over 18K posts on this forum? You act like you are always getting banned or something.

For someone who always talks about being a winner you certainly are fantastic at playing the victim.

I'm not always getting banned but I'm always getting infractions from bs other people do and don't get infractions for and nope I'm not playing the victim I'm not the one crying and whining about how "negative" other people are.

Trader Joe
09-03-2012, 06:46 PM
I'm not always getting banned but I'm always getting infractions from bs other people do and don't get infractions for and nope I'm not playing the victim I'm not the one crying and whining about how "negative" other people are.

How do you know if people are getting infractions or not? You are crying and whining right now by suggesting that you are punished for things other people get away with.

Anyway, I hope Blake Ahearn ends up making the team.

xBulletproof
09-03-2012, 06:51 PM
Maybe I don't pay enough attention...

I'm aware you share some/many of his views, but do I or anyone else talk to you the same as we do him? Of course not. There's a difference, and it's obviously not the views since you share some of them.

It's like the difference of having a conversation with someone in person who is intelligent and talks to you calmly (you), or a guy who follows you around for an hour after the conversation is over from room to room yelling unintelligible diatribe in your ear. You disagree with both, but one is just far more annoying about it.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 06:56 PM
How do you know if people are getting infractions or not? You are crying and whining right now by suggesting that you are punished for things other people get away with.

Anyway, I hope Blake Ahearn ends up making the team.

Well somebody called me not long ago dips*** and he is still posting, there is not doubt I would have been banned from PD if I do the same thing.

Hicks
09-03-2012, 07:08 PM
I'm aware you share some/many of his views, but do I or anyone else talk to you the same as we do him? Of course not. There's a difference, and it's obviously not the views since you share some of them.

Yep.

Sandman21
09-03-2012, 07:47 PM
Well somebody called me not long ago dips*** and he is still posting, there is not doubt I would have been banned from PD if I do the same thing.

And how do you know that he didn't get the same infraction you did?

Hypnotiq
09-03-2012, 08:20 PM
Well this thread has been ruined by a stupid petty argument

Pacerized
09-03-2012, 08:30 PM
These people are ****ing professionals, they get paid to go out there and try to get FAs to come here, and if they don't they don't have a job. To act like they didn't try is ridiculous. They never were just sitting on their asses twirling in their chairs counting the dollars going into their bank accounts. They were there working on getting players to come to the Pacers. Just because you don't see every little phone call, or action does not mean it does not happen. It just means you don't see it happen. It is far more likely that players like Deron Williams or Nash got a call from the Pacers than it was they didn't. Hell they even had a meeting with Gordon.

Stop acting like if it isn't in the media it didn't happen. Start using your brains for what it is there for. We aren't talking about a bunch of high school kids, we are talking about professionals.

Other teams are very public with their attempts. Fans of the Lakers, Mavs, and Celtics have no gripes because their teams are more transparant with their fans. If the Pacers can let it be publicly known that they have meeting with Kaman and Gordon then they can let the fans know of their efforts with other players if they make these efforts. They have nothing to gain by keeping things like that from the fans. I don't assume they made these efforts when I'm given no reason to. It would go so far to know that they even tried to hold off on Hibbert and Hill in order to land Scola but were told what to do by their agents. Scola was already waived before Hibbert and Hill were signed. It's the job of our front office to manage the timing of these signings and at the very least they did an imcompetent job of this.

Pacersalltheway10
09-03-2012, 08:36 PM
What's worse than being called out for optimism by a Pacers fan on a Pacers board is beign called out by a certain non-Pacers fan on a Pacers board. You can't say anything too positive without being attacked and you're supporsed to like the big name NBA stars no matter how much of a dick they are.

vnzla81
09-03-2012, 08:45 PM
And how do you know that he didn't get the same infraction you did?

Well if you get called and idiot and the first people that thanks the post are administrators I'm not expecting them to turn around and give that person an infraction.

Natston
09-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Other teams are very public with their attempts. Fans of the Lakers, Mavs, and Celtics have no gripes because their teams are more transparant with their fans. If the Pacers can let it be publicly known that they have meeting with Kaman and Gordon then they can let the fans know of their efforts with other players if they make these efforts. They have nothing to gain by keeping things like that from the fans. I don't assume they made these efforts when I'm given no reason to. It would go so far to know that they even tried to hold off on Hibbert and Hill in order to land Scola but were told what to do by their agents. Scola was already waived before Hibbert and Hill were signed. It's the job of our front office to manage the timing of these signings and at the very least they did an imcompetent job of this.

I am fairly certain that if the Pacers were rumored to be pursuing specific players and they ended up not aquiring them then this board would been burned down...

Hicks
09-03-2012, 09:05 PM
I am fairly certain that if the Pacers were rumored to be pursuing specific players and they ended up not aquiring them then this board would been burned down...

"Pacers failed / are failures"

Pacerized
09-03-2012, 09:55 PM
I am fairly certain that if the Pacers were rumored to be pursuing specific players and they ended up not aquiring them then this board would been burned down...

That is a good point when you consider the over reaction to the pursuit of Mayo, but I know I wouldn't have an issue with it. No one was too upset when Nene went a different direction. I was glad that Bird made the effort.

Natston
09-03-2012, 10:05 PM
That is a good point when you consider the over reaction to the pursuit of Mayo, but I know I wouldn't have an issue with it. No one was too upset when Nene went a different direction. I was glad that Bird made the effort.

I get what you are saying, but tptb shouldn't have to tell you that they are trying for you to know that they are.

Sandman21
09-03-2012, 10:12 PM
Well if you get called and idiot and the first people that thanks the post are administrators I'm not expecting them to turn around and give that person an infraction.

Except we're not talking about someone calling another an idiot, your example was an user calling you a dip****, which an admin DID NOT thank. (but I did report the post when it happened) Just because the amigo didn't get canned for that doesn't mean he didn't get away with it either.

k_lewis93
09-03-2012, 10:24 PM
you guys are dumb. it's called freedom of speech ever heard of it? Please let us leave the political comments at the front door, thank you......... :cry:

graphic-er
09-03-2012, 10:49 PM
you guys are dumb. it's called freedom of speech ever heard of it? ......... :cry:

Let me just remind you that the bill of rights refers to your relationship with government. Not individuals or businesses or organizations. So 1st amendment is saying that government can not impede your freedom to express yourself.

iogyhufi
09-03-2012, 10:56 PM
You know, someday, someone will look back in the archives of PD and say "Wow! We must really have been excited about a D-League player receiving a camp contract since we posted over 175 posts in a thread about him."

Bball
09-03-2012, 11:14 PM
When Blake Ahearn is going into the Hall of Fame someone will bump this thread. That will make Shade angry.

Dr. Awesome
09-03-2012, 11:16 PM
Don't get mad at me if you were the recipient of those trophies.

You keep trying to make points about no one here having a life, yet you've been here a few months more than me and have 16,000 more posts...

You should probably attack from a new angle.

Kid Minneapolis
09-04-2012, 09:19 AM
Looks like the Pacers got their Brian Scalabrine!!!!!! (Sorry, way late to the party..... but I'm PUMPED WOOOOO)

Tom White
09-04-2012, 09:20 AM
Other teams are very public with their attempts. Fans of the Lakers, Mavs, and Celtics have no gripes because their teams are more transparant with their fans. If the Pacers can let it be publicly known that they have meeting with Kaman and Gordon then they can let the fans know of their efforts with other players if they make these efforts. They have nothing to gain by keeping things like that from the fans. I don't assume they made these efforts when I'm given no reason to. It would go so far to know that they even tried to hold off on Hibbert and Hill in order to land Scola but were told what to do by their agents. Scola was already waived before Hibbert and Hill were signed. It's the job of our front office to manage the timing of these signings and at the very least they did an imcompetent job of this.

While I agree with the premise of your post, there is a flip side. If the team were to be that transparent, leaking word on every player they inquired about, guess which fans/posters would be saying "See, I told you so. No player actually wants to come to Indiana.".

Not that this would cause TPTB to lose sleep (Unless the outcry got to be huge), but it is much like being given a choice of which can of worms do you want to open, and knowing you have to open one of them.

I hope that made sense.

repole
09-04-2012, 10:20 AM
As resident Gerald Green expert, I watched a lot of DLeague last year and caught a number of Ahearn's games. Don't write him off entirely so fast, despite the pedestrian looking numbers in the 200 minutes or so of NBA action he's gotten.

Offensively the way he scores the ball is Nash-like (obviously not at that level, but stylistically). He's an EXCELLENT shooter, I believe he broke the professional basketball record for most consecutive free throws made last year. He's an alright distributor, nothing special in that regard but he can run an offense and generally handles the ball pretty efficiently. Defensively you're not going to get great stuff from him, but at the very least he's a high effort guy on that end.

pacergod2
09-04-2012, 11:41 AM
Wow, I haven't been around a whole lot this off-season, but DAMN.

A couple of points that most of you likely won't read because it will be too long of a post:

1. I love that Blake Ahearn is a camp invite for a small guaranteed portion of a contract. Great shooter off the bench with a limited role. Brings offense in a bench situation that calls for offensive players who can hit some shots. Smart player who can help push the guys in front of him to be better and won't be a locker room cancer. Great signing even if the role he will play is insignificant.

2. There is a lot of airing of grievances in this thread that I think people are more sick of the way Vzla81 responds. I always appreciate your candor and enthusiasm Vzla81 and you seemed to be a very nice person when I met you at one of the summer forum parties. One thing I ask you, is can you try to avoid the short sarcastic responses to other people. It is the sarcasm that rubs people the wrong way and then they get shi**y. I'm not asking you to change your opinions at all, but there are a lot of posts that add nothing but fuel to the fire. Those you can avoid. It's like fighting with a significant other.... it really doesn't need to happen.

3. As for the Pacers as an organization, there is a reason for a "Closed Mouth" approach. This really helps in negotiations to control what flows out of the front office. It can really negatively affect negotiations if rumors are spread that aren't necessarily are true. Also, the front office is pretty transparent in who we brought in to talk to. It is not as if we haven't heard most of the rumors. We are a small market and I can guarantee that for every player's agent we talk to about potentially coming here, we strike out more often than most teams do. So the amount of negative information that would flow from the front office would likely be a turn-off to an already small fanbase. It is the size of the fanbase that predetermines how we handle our business.

4. I love the signings of Ian Mahinmi, Gerald Green, and DJ Augustin. These are all kids in line with the upswing of our team. They are all improving significantly along with the rest of our roster. They make our second unit remarkably better than last year. They add length and athleticism. They add defense and versatility. There is no question in my mind that our front office has a mandate to stay under the LT and these signings were all in line with the long-term outlook of the franchise. We have to rememberto look a few years out and realize the kind of cap space is being held and the players who will need to be resigned.

5. Brand, Kaman, Nash, DWill... all of these players are pie in the sky type of signings. Kaman came in because we had money to spend and wanted a long-term deal that would be severely overpaying him and we wanted to know what kind of money he would cost us. It wasn't a fit clearly. Brand made it known to his agent that he wouldn't play for a lot of teams. We could have been one of them. Nash we made an offer to and he turned us down. DWill never even thought about coming here. It's like obsessing over why a girl who is completely out of your league won't date you. You have to do what fits to be successful. If she dated you, she'd leave you in worse shape than when she got there.

- Homey the Clown

BillS
09-04-2012, 12:08 PM
The numbers don't lie and there was room to bid on Brand and Scola even with the signing of Hibbert and Hill.

You misunderstand the bidding. Only teams under the cap can bid on amnestied players. Once Hibbert and Hill were signed, the Pacers were no longer eligible to bid - and, since they were scheduled to be signed before the bid period ended, the only way to bid would have been to defer the signings.

The only issue here is in not getting Hibbert and Hill (and their agents) to agree to wait for signing until the very end of the amnesty period. WE DO NOT KNOW if this was through an error by the FO or through insistence by Hibbert and Hill and their agents to get the signing done before a certain time. WE. DON'T. KNOW.

The bottom line, though, is that we were not eligible to bid on Scola by the end of the bidding period.

BillS
09-04-2012, 12:12 PM
I'm not asking you to change your opinions at all, but there are a lot of posts that add nothing but fuel to the fire. Those you can avoid. It's like fighting with a significant other.... it really doesn't need to happen.

This, this, a thousand times this. Sometimes names get flung in the middle of a post with substance, and those get missed by the admins because the substance is the major part of the post. OK, fine, folks that's what REPORT is for if it bothers you. The admins aren't perfect, and you also don't know who gets infractions or warnings because we don't post them publicly.

The point is, though, that a post whose sole reason for existing is to slam someone else is far more likely to get a reaction than a name used in the heat of discussion. In the latter case at least there is discussion going on. In the former case it is just a p***ing contest.

Pacer Fan
09-04-2012, 12:28 PM
Honest question... Because I dont remember seeing someone break down the timeline... How much room did we have when the bidding happened vs what the winning bids for Brand and Scola were?

Can you maybe post a timeline of all the signings and their cap impacts at the time of signing?

The timeline is posted by our post. All the PD'ers that where here during the whole FA timeline, this is all in other threads. It's not how much the Pacers salary was at the time of bids or winning bids. It's what could have been the salary at this time. It's what could the Pacers have done to have the room to sign another mid level player and / or an amnesty player.

Throwing 8 mil at Hill prematurely was like 4 mil against the salary cap vs cap hold. He should have not been signed on the 13th. Hibbert should have not signed till the following Friday, which would have freed up another 7 mil. A total of 11 mil under the cap, cap hold vs salary.

11 mil plus is plenty to sign amnesty and / or FA's, yet the big deal here is that by signing Hibbert and Hill after spending this 11 mil would have put the Pacers into Luxury tax by like 8 mil. vs them being under the cap by like 3 mil right now. This tax wasn't an option for them so they simply signed Hill and Hibbert to call it a done deal.

Roy and Hill signed contracts on Friday the 13th of July.

Amnesty had to be filed between 11-17 of July.

On July 6th, it was announced that Philly would amnesty Brand and on the 13th it was announce that Dallas won the bid for 2.1 mil.

On July 12th the Rockets filed Amnesty on Scola, yet it was known for several days earlier that the Rockets was going to amnesty him.

On Sunday, July 15th it was announced that the Suns won the bid for approx. 4.1 to 4.5 mil.

ECKrueger
09-04-2012, 01:04 PM
People saying this isn't stopping me from posting about Blake:

I agree it isn't stopping me from making a single point, but the argument is certainly impeding my ability to have a conversation about him.

If I make a post about him it'll get lost in arguing. Much as this likely will.

Hicks
09-04-2012, 01:52 PM
I'm not asking you to change your opinions at all, but there are a lot of posts that add nothing but fuel to the fire. Those you can avoid. It's like fighting with a significant other.... it really doesn't need to happen.

Well said.

I know vnzla81 insists it's about difference of opinion.

He, along with more than a few others, are what you could call the Eeyores of Pacers Digest. There's always something wrong, rarely something right, as far as they seem to be concerned; gloom and doom. And those kinds of posts do get really old and tiresome to read after a while. I'm not going to pretend that they don't.

However, not all Eeyores get this kind of treatment by the community, and do they all get the kind of response vnzla81 gets? Hell no. And there's a reason for that. My problem, first and foremost (by far), is the WAY IN WHICH he communicates his opinions. The unfriendly sarcasm, the unfriendly smartass comments, and beating us over the head with the same exact opinion in high volume over a short stretch of time. That is what I primarily take issue with. It's immature. It's disruptive.

There are constructive ways and destructive ways of getting your message out. Bball is someone who can often appear gloomy, but notice nobody jumps on him like this. It's because he's mature about how he posts.

And the funny thing is, I actually do enjoy it when I see vnzla81 in person at forum parties. He's a nice guy; easy to talk with. But on here, for whatever reason, it's like I'm reading a different person.

Eddie Gill
09-04-2012, 02:06 PM
I've lived in Missouri for the last 10 years and Ahearn's legend is almost on par with Hansbrough (albeit in a state not known for it's basketball products - I think the next guy on this list would be David Lee or Larry Hughes). From all the stories I've read about him and news segments he seems like a really great guy.

vnzla81
09-04-2012, 03:08 PM
Well said.

[QUOTE]I know vnzla81 insists it's about difference of opinion.

He, along with more than a few others, are what you could call the Eeyores of Pacers Digest. There's always something wrong, rarely something right, as far as they seem to be concerned; gloom and doom. And those kinds of posts do get really old and tiresome to read after a while. I'm not going to pretend that they don't.

I have said numerous times that I expect the Pacers to make it to the playoffs and probably make it to the second round(positive) but that they are not a Championship team("negative") then you guys focus on the negative and how dare I said they are not a championship team and "OMG", I said that JJ is better than Danny and then a bunch of people thought that someway somehow I said that Danny was garbage, your interpretations to the things I say are the things bothering you.


However, not all Eeyores get this kind of treatment by the community, and do they all get the kind of response vnzla81 gets? Hell no. And there's a reason for that. My problem, first and foremost (by far), is the WAY IN WHICH he communicates his opinions. The unfriendly sarcasm, the unfriendly smartass comments, and beating us over the head with the same exact opinion in high volume over a short stretch of time. That is what I primarily take issue with. It's immature. It's disruptive.

Nobody is beating you over the head with anything in fact I think is the other way around, "we(the "negative ones) better agree by force that this Pacers off season was a good off season or else" you guys keep beating us over the head that someway somehow we have to be happy with Mahinmi, Green, Augustin and Plumlee, it's hard for you and others to understand how somebody can be upset about not even getting a decent free agent and then you look for excuses in how and why the Pacers couldn't pull it off and if we don't agree with those excuses then you have to call us "negative" and a "bunch of whinners".

And the unfriendly sarcasm and smarta** comments, what do you expect me to do when I get a huge group of people pilling on on me just take it and say thank you?


There are constructive ways and destructive ways of getting your message out. Bball is someone who can often appear gloomy, but notice nobody jumps on him like this. It's because he's mature about how he posts.

I tried to be constructive until you, Kemo and Xbulletproof came out of nowhere with your "you are a negative bunch of whinners and all you like to do is bit**** about something comments", please tell me how you expect somebody to react to that?


And the funny thing is, I actually do enjoy it when I see vnzla81 in person at forum parties. He's a nice guy; easy to talk with. But on here, for whatever reason, it's like I'm reading a different person.

And I feel the same way about you.

vnzla81
09-04-2012, 03:17 PM
This mentality baffles me. Negative reduction for the sake of... feeling ****y, I guess?


I think some of you, your brain short circuits when there isn't anything negative to talk about so you make up crap with hollow arguments just to have something to "female dog" about


Sometimes, I feel like this place is a never ending whine-fest. People expect a superstar to be added to this team every season, and throw an online hissy fit when it doesn't happen.

If the players we added continue to play like they have now that they're on the Pacers, should we be better? Yes. If our young players improve should we be better? Yes. A combination of these things will make us quite a bit better. So, it's not a stretch to imagine this team is better than last year, and isn't that the goal of the off season?

Granted, I'm not one of the people who's screaming you have to do something NOW if you EVER want to win a title, or omg you're soooo not trying to win!! As long as you don't have a team full of Murphleavy contracts then opportunities will present themselves to get better.

Here are the posts I was talking about by the way and nope I wasn't beating anybody in the head with anything before that.

Since86
09-04-2012, 03:21 PM
My father used to say: "The first time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose, the second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk but the third time someone calls you a horse, well then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle."

pacergod2
09-04-2012, 03:23 PM
Vzla81, I really think our front office should have made one more move. I was really hoping to go get Brand. He fits our style of play perfect and I thought he could be had on the cheap. His one year of Amnesty cost would not have been prohibitive to our cap space either. I thought we made a major mistake not going after him, but I also think it may have been a directive from his agent to not come here, because the likelihood of us signing him long-term were minimal and he wanted to go somewhere his Bird Rights would do more for him.

Do I love the things we did, absolutely, but I also thought it could have been better. I support your views a lot. (I really liked Monta Ellis for us). Sarcasm is a ***** though. Your sarcasm is why you typically are a target for the attacks, sometimes baseless, sometimes not. Keep up the good work my friend.

Just don't become a Heat fan. :devil:

Peck
09-04-2012, 03:24 PM
I'm going to just put an end to this. This train wreck of a thread derailed on the very first page & I'm ashamed to say that we let it go on this long. Welcome aboard Mr. Ahearn & good luck to you. Everything else is just needless pointless back & forth.