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View Full Version : Who is the best coach in Pacers history?



Peck
08-23-2012, 04:38 PM
Just to give some type of balance to the who is the worst coach, and we've had some bad ones, I think we should state who was the best coach and we've had some great ones.

Give us who and why.

pacer4ever
08-23-2012, 04:55 PM
Rick is still my fav Nba coach. If I ever get into coaching his style is a lot like I see me being. He isn't narrow minded and takes win now vs build for future better than most. Main reason I like him and POP so much. Monty Williams is my 3rd fav he gets the best out of his young guys.

ChicagoJ
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
Slick. Three championships; 'nuff said.

But honorable mention goes to Larry Brown. Other than his wandering eye looking for the next job, he's still everything you want in a coach. And while he's the illustration of why Bird's three-year rule for coaches has validity, you get so much from him during those three years.

Bird gets credit because of his success. Not a tactician, probably terrible with x's and o's or working with players individually, but he could lead them and motivate them.

That's the Golden Three of Pacers coaches.

Trader Joe
08-23-2012, 05:03 PM
This thread is going to produce some knife fights....I gotta go with Slick for a lot of reasons, but mainly even when you listen to him now you can just tell he gets the game, and he seems like he would be good at handling players.

vapacersfan
08-23-2012, 05:20 PM
Two best from when I started following the NBA would be Bird and Carlisle.

Bird had the experience and the players listened. Not sure he was the best "coach" ever, but he know what he knew and more importantly he knew when to delegate. He could also still play which I think helped the players relate a lot.

Rick was a great coach, though his interpersonal skills held him back a bit IMO. I think we saw him grow a lot from Detroit to Indiana, and his work after the brawl was nothing short of spectacular.

Never saw Slick coach, but like another posters said above just listening to him you know he "gets it". Basically the polar opposite of Isiah Thomas. Oops, sorry, wrong thread :D

pacer4ever
08-23-2012, 05:39 PM
About coach Brown not a fan of his at all. I'm sure he was great with us a team that is ready to win. But what he did with the Kittes really soured me with him. When you have a young rebuilding type roster like he did with the Cats you don't play over priced vets who aren't part of the future instead of the kids and try to win 8th every year I doubt many top notch coaches would do that. You don't tank per say but you do what Monty did last year you play the kids see what you have and let the kids learn and play hard. Coaches like Larry Brown and JOB can't do that.

Eleazar
08-23-2012, 05:53 PM
I never saw Slick coach, too young.

Bird, this is just my opinion, but I don't think he has even close to the success he had without Carlisle sitting right next to him.

Brown, talk about an overrated coach if I have ever seen one.

That leaves Carlisle, from my incomplete experience, to be the best Pacer coach to date.

Sandman21
08-23-2012, 06:20 PM
Unfortunately, too young to have caught Slick, so I gotta go with Larry Legend.

vnzla81
08-23-2012, 06:23 PM
"JOB"

Signed by UNCLEBUCK.

Heisenberg
08-23-2012, 07:21 PM
"JOB"

Signed by UNCLEBUCK.

You've honestly become a troll with a lot of this JOB stuff.

Hoop
08-23-2012, 07:27 PM
I love Slick, but I don't really remember much about his coaching, so I can't pick him. He had to be good no doubt and I love his comments during games and how he believes basketball should be played. He bleeds Blue and Gold, how can you not love that.



Larry Brown was great, helped turn this franchise around. I can't over look Larry's constant unhappiness with his players no mater were he's coaching. He is a great coach, just don't let him make personnel decisions, he falls in and out of love with players to often. I still was not happy with him his last season here he gave up on the team and he has even said that himself. Some of the greatest times at MSA were with Larry Brown though, I'll never forget those times.



Larry Bird, I'm still not completely sure about as a coach. He obviously did a great job when he was our coach, seems to really know the game and how players think and what makes them respond (aka Jalen). He commands respect that few coaches will ever have, simply because of what he was as a player. I think he hired two great assistants and let them do their job, so does that make him a great coach, maybe, or a great leader yes, I really still don't know. Seems Bird has excelled at everything there is to do with Basketball, very impressive resume. Maybe we are still under estimating him?




I'll pick Rick
I just think Rick is a awesome coach, He was great at Detroit, still believe he is as responsible for their Championship as Larry Brown was. He set the stage, established a stye of play, they were doing worse under Larry the next season, till the Sheed give away. Billups always had nice things to say about Rick and he's the one guy from those Detroit teams I really respect.

Rick was even better here, he took some questionable rosters and preformed well over expectations IMO. The brawl season was about the best coaching job I've ever seen. He was not without flaws, he was supposedly distant and not very personable, but I think he worked on his weaknesses and improved, ultimately getting a much deserved Championship in Dallas.

I certainly would not be upset if he was ever brought back here, several years down the road.

cdash
08-23-2012, 07:32 PM
I can only vote on what I saw and witnessed, so while Slick is probably the pick here, my vote goes to Larry Brown. I think he is the guy who helped change the culture, took a slightly above average team and made them a contender, while setting them up for the success Bird enjoyed. Larry Brown is a fickle, fickle man, but he can coach.

wintermute
08-23-2012, 07:46 PM
I can only vote on what I saw and witnessed, so while Slick is probably the pick here, my vote goes to Larry Brown. I think he is the guy who helped change the culture, took a slightly above average team and made them a contender, while setting them up for the success Bird enjoyed. Larry Brown is a fickle, fickle man, but he can coach.

Close race between Brown and Carlisle for me but I'll go with that reasoning. I think Carlisle is brilliant with tactics though - on pure X&O's I think he'd be my top choice.



I certainly would not be upset if he was ever brought back here, several years down the road.

Interesting thought, and I agree. If Donnie can find his way back to the franchise, who's to say Rick won't? :) Though I expect he'll be in Dallas for a long, long time.

Strummer
08-23-2012, 07:57 PM
Has to be Slick. Championships. Coach & GM. On tv selling tickets during the telethon to keep the team in Indy. He was the face of the franchise. Couldn't have done any more.

Larry Brown is a great coach but he was never dedicated to the team (or any other team that he has been with). Larry Bird knew how to build and use his staff. But Slick did it all.

BillS
08-23-2012, 08:01 PM
"JOB"

Signed by UNCLEBUCK.

Come on, man. Find me a post where UB even came close to doing anything but defending JOB as an adequate coach for the Pacers who actually might have been good in certain areas. You need to stop equating defense with adoration, you really do.


To the topic at hand, it would be a toss-up between Slick's ABA days and Brown or Carlisle in the NBA days. Slick's NBA days are tainted by the lack of talent (and changing conditions) he was saddled with. Brown's behind-the-scenes problems grated on players but there is no question he took the team to another level, which is what you want a coach to do. Rick was skilled at the game but not so skilled with player interaction - remember that many of the locker room issues started when his player interaction assistant coaches moved on.

If I had to pick one, it would be Slick with Larry Brown a very close second.

Pacerized
08-23-2012, 08:14 PM
I voted for Slick for the same reason that I'd vote for Wilt at the greatest center of all time. I'm old enough to remember the aba but never went to a game and they were seldom televised where I lived so I can't vote for him from personal memory but his record speaks for itself.
For the NBA era I'd give it to Larry Bird. I realize that he had Carlisle but for that I just credit him to for being smart enough to surround himself with good people.

vnzla81
08-23-2012, 08:16 PM
You've honestly become a troll with a lot of this JOB stuff.

It was a joke.

Eddie Gill
08-23-2012, 09:08 PM
I'm too young to remember the ABA, the Coliseum, or the telethon, and my only memories of him involve listening to the radio, but I think Slick deserves this distinction. I don't understand the total dismissal of anything that happened in the ABA - a tendency on the part of casual fans and media to immediately discredit a very real and storied history.

Unclebuck
08-23-2012, 09:36 PM
Brown by a wide margin. He was a master. Wow was he great

BlueNGold
08-23-2012, 09:48 PM
I was too young to remember Slick all that well. Larry Brown was the best coach I have ever seen in Indy. His coaching actually made a positive difference. I would put Rick behind him and Larry third. Not sure where Slick would rank, but he's sure getting a lot of votes.

J7F
08-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Even though I never saw him coach I voted for Slicky Bobby... He's the only Pacers coach who earned a trip to the Hall of Fame based mainly on his time coaching the Pacers...

Rick would be 2nd for me...

Bird isn't even in consideration from me ever since I heard second hand from JO that Reggie felt like the vets ran that team with Larry being little more than a figure head...

Ransom
08-23-2012, 11:35 PM
I can't speak to have seen him, but for 3 ABA championships, I'll vote Slick.

If we included work outside the Pacers I'd give it to Brown though.

Bball
08-24-2012, 04:00 AM
Larry Brown set the stage for most of a decade of great Pacer basketball. Without Larry Brown I'm not sure what the team would've looked like in the 90's or how much Brown's impact seasoned Reggie's game. Just as Jonathon Bender should thank Donnie Walsh every day for his bank account, Donnie Walsh should thank Larry Brown for his prolonged career and reputation.

Unclebuck
08-24-2012, 08:51 AM
I think Larry Brown is widely regarded as the best in-game coach ever to coach in the NBA. That is what I hear all the time from many experts. Brown has some negatives - the biggest is that he wears out his welcome by the way he drives his players - they eventually tune him out. I contend he didn't leave all of his coaching jobs because he got restless, but because he could tell the players were starting to tune him out. So he had a short self-life. Maybe his personality is a little different - people who know him well, including Donnie Walsh, always said Larry is only happy when he is miserable.

Another negative is he runs hot and cold on players - he wants to trade players on a whim. Walsh also mentioned this (in a nicer way) several times. So you never want him being in control of personel. Also, Brown is by nature a negative guy, he never thinks his teams are good enough, never satisfied and he wants each player to b play perfectly. He'll stop practice over and over again if a player makes a mistake.

Another thing about Larry is he wasn't much of a film watcher himself. Supposedly he could watch a play live and remember every single thing that happened down to every detail.

He coached his team to be the best it could be. He didn't coach his team to "beat the other team" In many ways he is almost exact oppsite to Carlisle.

Granted these are generalities:

1) Carlisle sees his players as they are, puts them in positions to succeed, plays to each players strengths and coaches his team to beat the other team
2) Larry Brown teaches his players to be what they can become, teaches them to play the game, teaches them to be better at things they aren't good at.

Example - Carlisle and Brown both coached Ben Wallace. Carlisle asked Ben to rebound and defend - he never worried about getting him to be part of the offense. Brown asked Ben to expand his game, get better offensively, forced him to be part of the scoring offense.

Which approach is correct? Carlisle approach is more typical for NBA coaches.

I think the different approaches is why Brown's teams generally started seasons very slow, because he spent training camp trying to get the players better. Carlisle was trying to get the team ready to beat the opponents.

Another thing about Brown, supposedly he put in new offensive plays all the time as the season went along - not to suggest other coaches don't, but Brown much more often.

Back in Brown's first season here, if you watch how the Pacers developed from the first month to the last - it was remarkable how the team didn't look anything like it did earlier. That single season was the best single season coaching job I have ever seen.

Ownagedood
08-24-2012, 10:53 AM
I have to go with Bird because I'm too young for Slick and the Bird coaching years are my most fond as a Pacer fan.

Jackson, Rose, Miller, Davis, Mckey, Mullin, Smits. That was a nice team and the first time I got really familier with a Pacer team, so that team definitely sits in an important spot in my heart! It also helps that they made it to the Finals!

PR07
08-24-2012, 11:43 AM
I'd probably go with Slick Leonard, with Larry Bird in second place (due to the fact the longevity wasn't there).

ChicagoJ
08-24-2012, 11:47 AM
If we didn't have Larry Brown's fourth season, which is also known as The Season We Do Not Discuss, I think he'd be near-unanimous at the top of this poll.

For three seasons I absolutely loved him as the Pacers coach.

Over my half-season package that final season, I sat in MSA and watched the Pacers go 4-18 or something awful like that. Just maddening how bad those of us on that half of the ticket split had it.

BillS
08-24-2012, 12:14 PM
If we didn't have Larry Brown's fourth season, which is also known as The Season We Do Not Discuss, I think he'd be near-unanimous at the top of this poll.

I dunno, he'd still be fighting uphill battle against Slick's 3 ABA championships. It would definitely be even closer in an already tight race, though.

Unclebuck
08-24-2012, 01:15 PM
I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know. So I use the same principle as I do with players. Unless I watched them I cannot really comment

Kegboy
08-24-2012, 01:24 PM
I think quite a few people need to check the rafters the next time they're at the Bank.

To mirror my JOB/Isiah argument, Larry Brown may very well be the better coach, but Slick did a much better job coaching the Pacers.

As for the others in the poll, all I know is Bird and Carlisle were wildly outcoached by George Karl (with a major scouting assist from Rick Majerus) in the 1st round of the 2000 playoffs. Just embarrassing how outcoached we were. It took Reggie putting on a freaking superhero costume to even get us to game 5, let alone Travis' last shot (and yes, Dale's monster rebound assist.) It's really something to think how different the last 12 years would be if that shot hadn't gone in.

On that alone, it's a two man race as far as I'm concerned. And looking at the results, it's an easy choice to me.

Kegboy
08-24-2012, 01:27 PM
I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know.

I didn't have to live in the 1700's to know George Washington was pretty darn good.

Trader Joe
08-24-2012, 01:28 PM
I didn't have to live in the 1700's to know George Washington was pretty darn good.

Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

Unclebuck
08-24-2012, 01:39 PM
OK, I can say sure Slick did a great job. His championships prove it. But beyond that how do I really know.

I'm not being critical of Slick, but I don't feel qualified to have an opinion beyond stating the facts that he won championships.

BillS
08-24-2012, 01:39 PM
I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know. So I use the same principle as I do with players. Unless I watched them I cannot really comment


Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

I think at some point you can do research and make an objective evaluation to get a relative ranking of players, meaning having actually seen them isn't necessary. Usually, though, these kinds of things boil down to who do you LIKE best, and in that case the "haven't seen so-and-so play/coach" is perfectly valid.

Unclebuck
08-24-2012, 01:39 PM
Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

no, but I think they should mention they have never seen himplay and I think IMO that ends the debate right there. Lets debate players you have seen.

JMO

Trader Joe
08-24-2012, 01:47 PM
no, but I think they should mention they have never seen himplay and I think IMO that ends the debate right there. Lets debate players you have seen.

JMO

Well it is a different era now with the ease one can find old games even from the 70s.

Unclebuck
08-24-2012, 01:52 PM
Well it is a different era now with the ease one can find old games even from the 70s.

IMO watching a few tapes here and there isn't the same thing as being alive at the time and getting a much IMO better understanding of how good a player is

I don't see how I could possibly determine who was better Wilt or Shaq? I don't really look at stats, so what can base my judgment on.

But I can determine if Shaq was better than Kareem.

I mean if you want to just use stats or won loss records, we can do that, but where is the fun in that.

Ownagedood
08-24-2012, 02:12 PM
The reason why I think it's relatively unfair to automatically hand it to Slick because of his accomplishments of championships is because that was a whole 'nother time period. There were only 11 teams 2 of the years he won and only 10 teams the other year. Also he had superstars on his team, where as in this day and age we really don't get superstars in Indiana. I'm not taking away from all his great accomplishments, because I do love the guy, but he did have a lot more talent to work with and a lot less competition.

Ace E.Anderson
08-24-2012, 02:45 PM
Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

It's hard to give a true assessment of someone when you've never seen them play or coach. I've never seen Slick Leonard coach either, so in spite of his championships and other accolades, its hard for me to differentiate him from Carlisle, Bird, Brown, etc.

If you wanna gague off of wins and accolades (and championships) then obviously it's Bobby. If not, then it's a completely different ball-game. Though I was completely ready for him to leave here by the end of his tenure, I really liked what Carlisle brought to our team, especially defensively.

That post-brawl team of nobodys that was coached up by Rick; played their hearts out every game while our stars were suspended (Tinsley, Fred Jones, James Jones, Jeff Foster, Scot Pollard, etc) will always hold a special place in my heart.

ChicagoJ
08-24-2012, 04:29 PM
Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

I was in Springfield, MA last week at the Hall of Fame. Told Jay's_Daughter@Section222 stories of, in my opinion, the three best players ever: Wilt, Oscar, and Sabonis.

Did I ever see the first two play? No. But I did my research.

But lots of people dismiss those three from the best of all-time debates because we don't have enough televised games from the 1960s/early 70s to pick from or enough televised games from behind the Iron Curtain to pick from.

Doesn't diminish their accomplishments at all.

OlBlu
08-24-2012, 07:06 PM
I was in Springfield, MA last week at the Hall of Fame. Told Jay's_Daughter@Section222 stories of, in my opinion, the three best players ever: Wilt, Oscar, and Sabonis.

Did I ever see the first two play? No. But I did my research.

But lots of people dismiss those three from the best of all-time debates because we don't have enough televised games from the 1960s/early 70s to pick from or enough televised games from behind the Iron Curtain to pick from.

Doesn't diminish their accomplishments at all.

I saw Wilt and Oscar play a lot. I only saw Sabonis when he was past his prime. So, I agree with you about Wilt and Oscar but I would have added Bill Russell.......:cool: ...

OlBlu
08-24-2012, 07:09 PM
IMO watching a few tapes here and there isn't the same thing as being alive at the time and getting a much IMO better understanding of how good a player is

I don't see how I could possibly determine who was better Wilt or Shaq? I don't really look at stats, so what can base my judgment on.

But I can determine if Shaq was better than Kareem.

I mean if you want to just use stats or won loss records, we can do that, but where is the fun in that.

Let me help you with that. Shaq shouldn't even be mentioned with Kareem and Wilt, there was that much difference. If Wilt had been allowed to push and bang like, Shaq, he would have averaged 50 a game for his career.......:cool: ...

NapTonius Monk
08-24-2012, 08:29 PM
I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?

NapTonius Monk
08-24-2012, 08:34 PM
And slick will always be number 1! Primarily because I learn so much just from listening to him. Boom Baby!

ChicagoJ
08-24-2012, 11:28 PM
I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?

First season, Clark Kellogg got hurt right away, put the rookie Rifleman in the lineup and went from a low-20 win team to 0.500 and the playoffs. Chuck vs. Dominique was one of the highlights of the playoffs. You've probably seen the famous Dominique vs. Bird matchup on YouTube that took place in the next round. Second season, Reggie's rookie year - played sixth man - and what turned out to be Stipo's last season. Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again. Got off to an ugly 0-7 start and that was it.

Heisenberg
08-25-2012, 01:35 AM
First season, Clark Kellogg got hurt right away, put the rookie Rifleman in the lineup and went from a low-20 win team to 0.500 and the playoffs. Chuck vs. Dominique was one of the highlights of the playoffs. You've probably seen the famous Dominique vs. Bird matchup on YouTube that took place in the next round. Second season, Reggie's rookie year - played sixth man - and what turned out to be Stipo's last season. Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again. Got off to an ugly 0-7 start and that was it.Do you have notebooks full of Pacer facts? Seriously, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise's history. It's great.

ChicagoJ
08-25-2012, 02:19 AM
Nah. But Basketball-reference.com does help me recall some details. For example, this was my Facebook post a few weeks ago when Dan Roundfield drowned...



The first professional basketball game I ever attended, back in 1977, Dan Roundfield was the Pacers' starting C. And I believe they defeated the evil Bulls on that Sunday afternoon. Darnell Hillman, Billy Knight and Don Buse were also in the starting lineup that day. Sad news.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8243982/former-atlanta-hawks-star-dan-roundfield-drowns-aruba


Really what this means is I've just been to or watched a lot of games.

RWB
08-25-2012, 11:22 AM
Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again.
The Mrs. and I were at that game and it about killed me. Watching Stipos' semi layup just barely roll off the rim and New Yawk celebrating at center court. That's when I first had a dislike for the Knicks. Didn't get the hate till later of course, and that took a lot to push the Celtics to #2 on the list. :mad:

OlBlu
08-25-2012, 11:28 AM
I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?


Ramsay's biggest claim to fame is being JOB's father-in-law...... I'm just kidding. Dr. Jack has always been a great coach and spokesman for the game. :cool: ...

Peck
08-25-2012, 03:15 PM
The Mrs. and I were at that game and it about killed me. Watching Stipos' semi layup just barely roll off the rim and New Yawk celebrating at center court. That's when I first had a dislike for the Knicks. Didn't get the hate till later of course, and that took a lot to push the Celtics to #2 on the list. :mad:

I also was at that game & that was the very day I started calling Pat Ewing "Gladiator". He was a one man wrecking machine.

Coopdog23
08-25-2012, 10:20 PM
I'd say Slick by far, Bird second, Brown third

Pacer Fan
08-26-2012, 12:15 AM
I voted for Larry Legend cause he took us to the finals.

Rick proved nothing except that he took a very talented team and managed to destroy it. Fair or not, it happened on his watch and he had to be accountable.

Larry Brown had the most solid teams in Pacers History and couldn't get it done.

I couldn't vote for Slick cause his NBA years was horrid and well the ABA wasn't the NBA and we live in the NBA era. If you want to talk ABA separately, I'd put Slick as the best ABA coach ever.

Day-V
08-26-2012, 02:49 PM
I don't get the whole "I never saw Slick coach so I can't vote for him" excuse.

I never saw Red Auerbach coach, but that doesn't mean if someone asked, "Who is the best coach on this list: Red Auerbach, Mike Dunleavy Sr, or Jim O'Brien?" I'd not pick him. Hell, if we're gonna play that game, .....I never saw Bill Russell play, so therefore Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu were better players than him.

Slick won hardware here. Multiple pieces. Only 1 other guy came close to winning one, and didn't succeed.


Answer is a no-brainer.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
08-26-2012, 05:47 PM
This thread is going to produce some knife fights....I gotta go with Slick for a lot of reasons, but mainly even when you listen to him now you can just tell he gets the game, and he seems like he would be good at handling players.

Yeah, like when he chased Neto into the locker room with a broom.

WhoLovesYaBaby?
08-26-2012, 05:49 PM
I don't get the whole "I never saw Slick coach so I can't vote for him" excuse.

I never saw Red Auerbach coach, but that doesn't mean if someone asked, "Who is the best coach on this list: Red Auerbach, Mike Dunleavy Sr, or Jim O'Brien?" I'd not pick him. Hell, if we're gonna play that game, .....I never saw Bill Russell play, so therefore Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu were better players than him.

Slick won hardware here. Multiple pieces. Only 1 other guy came close to winning one, and didn't succeed.


Answer is a no-brainer.

You made me laugh when you mentioned Diogu.

BillS
08-27-2012, 09:46 AM
I don't get the whole "I never saw Slick coach so I can't vote for him" excuse.

I never saw Red Auerbach coach, but that doesn't mean if someone asked, "Who is the best coach on this list: Red Auerbach, Mike Dunleavy Sr, or Jim O'Brien?" I'd not pick him. Hell, if we're gonna play that game, .....I never saw Bill Russell play, so therefore Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu were better players than him.

Slick won hardware here. Multiple pieces. Only 1 other guy came close to winning one, and didn't succeed.


Answer is a no-brainer.

I understand your sentiments, but comparing Slick, Bird, and Brown isn't the extreme you are referring to. They are all coaches of very similar caliber and the choice isn't an All-Star vs. Scrub situation.

threein73
08-27-2012, 10:06 AM
Slick....PERIOD!

ChicagoJ
08-27-2012, 10:10 AM
Yeah, like when he chased Neto into the locker room with a broom.

Hockey stick.

Day-V
08-27-2012, 05:35 PM
Okay fine,

I never saw Bill Russell play, so therefore Reggie Miller and Ray Allen were better players than him.


Happy now?

Sandman21
08-27-2012, 05:42 PM
Hockey stick.

To be fair, he probably went after Neto with a broom too.

jrwannabe
08-27-2012, 05:42 PM
I am the same way as a lot of people, as I am too young to remember Slick. I want to say Rick is the best cause we had a solid team with excellent D, something we haven't had since. I choose Larry Brown cause he was the coach that took us from mid-level/bottom feeders to a contending team.

Hicks
08-28-2012, 07:30 PM
The first thing to do is agree on how to qualify them.

I mean if your #1 priority is final results, Slick has 3 titles.

If your #1 priority is pure knowledge of how to play and coach the game, I'm looking at either Larry Brown or Rick Carlisle.

You could also make the case that Larry Bird was great because he was wise enough to do what he knew how to do (lead, make the big decisions) while finding great people to delegate to with regards to what he wasn't able to do, and he successfully found two great people to do that for him (Dick Harter and Rick Carlisle). He gets major kudos from me for doing it that way rather than try to pretend to be something he was not, plus he got some pretty good results during his 3 seasons.

It seems impossible for me to give a definitive answer because I want to know more about the details of Slick's coaching. If he was the complete package (leader/motivator, decision maker, X's and O's, teacher), then it's no contest. If he had holes, then it becomes more debatable. You could also argue it was easier to win ABA titles than NBA titles back then, so we don't know how things would have gone if the Pacers were always an NBA team. No one likes to think about that, but I think there's truth to it.

ChicagoJ
08-28-2012, 07:58 PM
It seems impossible for me to give a definitive answer because I want to know more about the details of Slick's coaching. If he was the complete package (leader/motivator, decision maker, X's and O's, teacher), then it's no contest.

From what I can gather, its no contest.

Slick, at age 8,392, is still razor-sharp about basketball strategy and the technical stuff. You can tell that during every broadcast. Listen when his mike is turned off and he's have a conversation with a ref, or one of the players, or somebody else and you can hear it over Mark's microphone. He's sharp. In that era, being weak on strategy or x's and o's was a nonstarter. Coaches dealt with whatever roster they were given, or they got fired.

And there's no doubt that his team loved playing for him, drinking with him, smoking cigarettes with him, he was the patriarch of the Pacers family.

Could the modern players deal with him? I don't know, discipline was fairly important for him.

Complete package. He was Brown and Bird combined. Or a version of Rick Carlisle that the players didn't hate.

Pacergeek
08-28-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm going to go with Larry Bird. Even though he was only a coach for 3 years, I felt he got the most out of his players. Even though he wasn't an x's and o's type of coach, his leadership and motivational skills were excellent. Advancing to 3 ECF's in a row including a Finals appearance is impressive.

McKeyFan
08-28-2012, 08:46 PM
I was raised by a UCLA basketball player who taught me Wooden fundamentals all growing up. It was pretty much assumed you wouldn't find that in the NBA.

Then one day in the mid 90s I turn on an NBA playoff game and see the Pacers for the first time. I was entranced. These guys knew how to really play basketball.

It wasn't until about halfway through Bird's second year as coach that I realized I was actually a Larry Brown fan. Bird was a fine coach, but the differences, to me, were clear. However, by that time I had gotten attached to Pacer basketball, involved with the beginnings of an online forum, and caught up in the soap opera of an NBA franchise. So I remained a fan, and have checked into the forum on pretty much a daily basis for 15 years. That's Larry Brown's doing, ultimately.