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View Full Version : Current market size rankings. Portland larger than Indy



Unclebuck
08-20-2012, 01:17 PM
We discuss this topic quite a bit, so I figured lets see exactly what market size really is. Portland is a little larger than I figured. Keep in mind this is TV market.

Largest TV markets without NBA team.
Seattle - 12
Tampa - 14
St. Louis - 21
Pittsburgh - 23

Smallest markets with a team
New Orleans -52
Memphis - 49
OKC - 44
San Antonio - 36


http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/08/18/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates-for-2011-12/145310/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Tvbythenumbers+%28TVbytheNumb ers%29



<TBODY>

Local Television Market Universe Estimates






Estimates as of January 1, 2012 and used throughout the 2011-2012 television season




Estimates are effective September 24, 2011





Rank

Designated Market Area (DMA)

TV Homes

% of US



1

New York

7,387,810

6.444



2

Los Angeles

5,569,780

4.858



3

Chicago

3,493,480

3.047



4

Philadelphia

2,993,370

2.611



5

Dallas-Ft. Worth

2,571,310

2.243



6

San Francisco-Oak-San Jose

2,506,510

2.186



7

Boston (Manchester)

2,379,690

2.076



8

Washington, DC (Hagrstwn)

2,360,180

2.059



9

Atlanta

2,292,640

2.000



10

Houston

2,185,260

1.906



11

Detroit

1,842,650

1.607



12

Seattle-Tacoma

1,811,420

1.580



13

Phoenix (Prescott)

1,811,330

1.580



14

Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota)

1,788,240

1.560



15

Minneapolis-St. Paul

1,721,940

1.502



16

Miami-Ft. Lauderdale

1,583,800

1.381



17

Denver

1,548,570

1.351



18

Cleveland-Akron (Canton)

1,514,170

1.321



19

Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn

1,465,460

1.278



20

Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto

1,388,570

1.211



21

St. Louis

1,253,920

1.094



22

Portland, OR

1,190,010

1.038



23

Pittsburgh

1,171,490

1.022



24

Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle)

1,143,420

0.997



25

Charlotte

1,140,900

0.995



26

Indianapolis

1,109,970

0.968



27

Baltimore

1,097,310

0.957



28

San Diego

1,077,600

0.940



29

Nashville (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/tag/nashville-ratings/)

1,024,560

0.894



30

Hartford & New Haven (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/tag/haven-ratings/)

1,006,280

0.878



31

Kansas City

939,740

0.820



32

Columbus, OH

932,680

0.814



33

Salt Lake City

927,540

0.809



34

Milwaukee

907,660

0.792



35

Cincinnati

896,090

0.782



36

San Antonio

880,690

0.768



37

Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And

860,930

0.751



38

West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce

788,020

0.687



39

Birmingham (Ann and Tusc)

738,790

0.644



40

Las Vegas

737,300

0.643



41

Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York

729,440

0.636



42

Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk

722,150

0.630



43

Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws

718,750

0.627



44

Oklahoma City

712,630

0.622



45

Albuquerque-Santa Fe

710,050

0.619



46

Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem

691,200

0.603



47

Austin

686,830

0.599



48

Louisville

674,050

0.588



49

Memphis

669,940

0.584



50

Jacksonville

669,840

0.584



51

Buffalo

645,190

0.563



52

New Orleans

643,660

0.561



53

Providence-New Bedford

620,010

0.541



54

Wilkes Barre-Scranton-Hztn

590,740

0.515



55

Fresno-Visalia

574,800

0.501



56

Little Rock-Pine Bluff

571,630

0.499



57

Richmond-Petersburg

559,390

0.488



58

Albany-Schenectady-Troy

551,120

0.481



59

Tulsa

529,100

0.461



60

Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt)

527,930

0.460



61

Knoxville

527,790

0.460



62

Ft. Myers-Naples

504,240

0.440



63

Dayton

493,600

0.431



64

Lexington

488,850

0.426



65

Charleston-Huntington

465,030

0.406



66

Roanoke-Lynchburg

455,860

0.398



67

Wichita-Hutchinson Plus

454,590

0.397



68

Flint-Saginaw-Bay City

451,880

0.394



69

Green Bay-Appleton

445,760

0.389



70

Tucson (Sierra Vista)

442,020

0.386



71

Honolulu

434,730

0.379



72

Des Moines-Ames

431,300

0.376



73

Spokane

426,690

0.372



74

Toledo

426,280

0.372



75

Springfield, MO

423,010

0.369



76

Omaha

415,510

0.362



77

Columbia, SC

404,830

0.353



78

Portland-Auburn

401,370

0.350



79

Rochester, NY

398,790

0.348



80

Huntsville-Decatur (Flor)

394,010

0.344



81

Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg

393,330

0.343



82

Champaign&Sprngfld-Decatur

386,160

0.337



83

Shreveport

386,150

0.337



84

Syracuse

386,090

0.337



85

Madison

378,290

0.330



86

Chattanooga

366,790

0.320



87

Harlingen-Wslco-Brnsvl-McA

361,820

0.316



88

Waco-Temple-Bryan

353,190

0.308



89

Cedar Rapids-Wtrlo-IWC&Dub

344,150

0.300



90

Colorado Springs-Pueblo

343,160

0.299



91

El Paso (Las Cruces)

336,570

0.294



92

Savannah

335,080

0.292



93

Jackson, MS

334,530

0.292



94

Baton Rouge

333,010

0.290



95

Burlington-Plattsburgh

323,750

0.282



96

Tri-Cities, TN-VA

323,640

0.282



97

South Bend-Elkhart

322,090

0.281



98

Charleston, SC

311,260

0.271



99

Greenville-N.Bern-Washngtn

307,610

0.268



100

Davenport-R.Island-Moline

307,050

0.268



101

Ft. Smith-Fay-Sprngdl-Rgrs

301,120

0.263



102

Johnstown-Altoona-St Colge

294,770

0.257



103

Myrtle Beach-Florence

289,060

0.252



104

Evansville

287,880

0.251



105

Lincoln & Hastings-Krny

280,310

0.244



106

Tallahassee-Thomasville

272,520

0.238



107

Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd)

271,400

0.237



108

Reno

271,020

0.236



109

Ft. Wayne

267,710

0.234



110

Youngstown

263,850

0.230



111

Augusta-Aiken

262,560

0.229



112

Boise

261,810

0.228



113

Sioux Falls(Mitchell)

261,530

0.228



114

Springfield-Holyoke

257,080

0.224



115

Lansing

252,890

0.221



116

Peoria-Bloomington

247,850

0.216



117

Fargo-Valley City

246,780

0.215



118

Macon

245,910

0.214



119

Montgomery-Selma

245,100

0.214



120

Traverse City-Cadillac

244,050

0.213



121

Eugene

241,270

0.210



122

SantaBarbra-SanMar-SanLuOb

230,830

0.201



123

Yakima-Pasco-Rchlnd-Knnwck

230,010

0.201



124

Lafayette, LA

229,320

0.200



125

Monterey-Salinas

223,620

0.195



126

Bakersfield

221,920

0.194



127

Columbus, GA (Opelika, AL)

215,410

0.188



128

La Crosse-Eau Claire

213,660

0.186



129

Corpus Christi

203,550

0.178



130

Amarillo

195,650

0.171



131

Chico-Redding

194,590

0.170



132

Wilmington

190,730

0.166



133

Columbus-Tupelo-W Pnt-Hstn

189,910

0.166



134

Rockford

184,360

0.161



135

Wausau-Rhinelander

181,280

0.158



136

Topeka

177,710

0.155



137

Monroe-El Dorado

177,410

0.155



138

Columbia-Jefferson City

176,470

0.154



139

Duluth-Superior

173,710

0.152



140

Medford-Klamath Falls

170,670

0.149



141

Beaumont-Port Arthur

168,420

0.147



142

Wichita Falls & Lawton

160,540

0.140



143

Lubbock

160,160

0.140



144

Salisbury

159,640

0.139



145

Palm Springs

158,440

0.138



146

Erie

157,730

0.138



147

Sioux City

157,060

0.137



148

Anchorage

155,600

0.136



149

Joplin-Pittsburg

153,910

0.134



150

Albany, GA

151,620

0.132



151

Odessa-Midland

146,040

0.127



152

Minot-Bsmrck-Dcknsn(Wlstn)

145,480

0.127



153

Rochestr-Mason City-Austin

145,450

0.127



154

Terre Haute

142,780

0.125



155

Bangor

141,580

0.123



156

Bluefield-Beckley-Oak Hill

137,380

0.120



157

Binghamton

136,730

0.119



158

Wheeling-Steubenville

133,120

0.116



159

Panama City

132,120

0.115



160

Idaho Fals-Pocatllo(Jcksn)

128,940

0.112



161

Sherman-Ada

128,790

0.112



162

Biloxi-Gulfport

128,150

0.112



163

Gainesville

124,730

0.109



164

Abilene-Sweetwater

115,630

0.101



165

Missoula

114,590

0.100



166

Yuma-El Centro

112,850

0.098



167

Hattiesburg-Laurel

111,560

0.097



168

Billings

109,940

0.096



169

Dothan

109,080

0.095



170

Clarksburg-Weston

108,980

0.095



171

Quincy-Hannibal (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/tag/hannibal-ratings/)-Keokuk

104,790

0.091



172

Utica

104,750

0.091



173

Rapid City

100,120

0.087



174

Elmira (Corning)

96,600

0.084



175

Lake Charles

94,850

0.083



176

Jackson, TN

94,650

0.083



177

Watertown

93,090

0.081



178

Harrisonburg

91,620

0.080



179

Alexandria, LA

90,160

0.079



180

Marquette

85,230

0.074



181

Jonesboro

81,300

0.071



182

Bowling Green

79,990

0.070



183

Charlottesville

74,630

0.065



184

Grand Junction-Montrose

72,970

0.064



185

Laredo

72,060

0.063



186

Meridian

70,190

0.061



187

Greenwood-Greenville

67,730

0.059



188

Lafayette, IN

67,260

0.059



189

Butte-Bozeman

66,910

0.058



190

Great Falls

66,190

0.058



191

Twin Falls

65,800

0.057



192

Parkersburg

63,120

0.055



193

Bend, OR

62,620

0.055



194

Eureka (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/tag/eureka-ratings)

61,180

0.053



195

Cheyenne-Scottsbluff

56,640

0.049



196

Casper-Riverton

56,460

0.049



197

San Angelo

55,570

0.048



198

Mankato

53,720

0.047



199

Ottumwa-Kirksville

47,810

0.042



200

St. Joseph

46,690

0.041



201

Lima

39,350

0.034



202

Fairbanks

37,010

0.032



203

Zanesville

33,140

0.029



204

Victoria

31,540

0.028



205

Presque Isle

29,850

0.026



206

Helena

28,050

0.024



207

Juneau

25,500

0.022



208

Alpena

17,100

0.015



209

North Platte

15,180

0.013



210

Glendive

4,180

0.004




NSI Total U.S.

114,649,310

100.000


</TBODY>
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ballism
08-20-2012, 03:23 PM
I always found this chart interesting:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/45197280/SportsChart.pdf

I don't remember which organization made it, but it was used in an article on bizjournals site some time ago (before the Atlanta hockey team moved to Canada).

It basically shows availability (or lack) of money for sports in US/Canada markets.
It's based on average income in those markets, competing teams, and fairly basic formulas on what % of their income people spend on major league sports.

It's far from perfect (e.g., it doesn't take into account college teams or other entertainment options that may compete with major leagues, or the difference in living costs between markets). But still, the data is interesting.

vnzla81
08-20-2012, 03:25 PM
So why would the Pacers move to Las Vegas if their are smaller than Indiana? :stirthepo

ballism
08-20-2012, 03:41 PM
So why would the Pacers move to Las Vegas if their are smaller than Indiana? :stirthepo

i don't think the Pacers moving was ever a strong possibility.

but re the general idea of an [insert a small market team with no stadium and support] moving there... it's intriguing.
it's not a huge market, but it's very rich for its size (richer than Indianapolis) and it has no major league teams or super college teams. that's the pitch.
obviously that's just part of the story due to all the other entertainment options.

In the end, I suspect the NBA would prefer to let a minor league or a smaller league like MLS try it first and be the 'lab rat'.

BillS
08-20-2012, 03:47 PM
and it has no major league teams or super college teams. that's the pitch.


Well, there's UNLV, but they haven't been much of a powerhouse recently...

Heisenberg
08-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Well, there's UNLV, but they haven't been much of a powerhouse recently...

UNLV's going to be pretty good this year, in mens hoops anyway. Not Johnson/Augmon/Anthony, but they're on the way back. Still, while never being to Vegas, I always got the impression they became a big deal out west in the early 90s basically because there isn't a lot of other options sports wise and it was a style over substance thing for most as opposed to any deep seeded tie to the school.

MTM
08-20-2012, 04:40 PM
I was in Vegas (# 40 on the list) over the weekend and ran into a guy who appeared to be knowledgeable (but in Vegas, appearances can be deceiving) about their city's strong push to lure either NHL and/or NBA teams, based on their ability to draw large vendor/sponsor revenues from hotels and casinos. Apparently the NBA has suggested that if sponsor revenue can be guaranteed, Vegas would have an inside track for any re-location. He also suggested their metro market was well over 1 million, despite the smaller number for their Vegas market. Apparently there will be talk soon about a stadium being built. He suggested that Sacramento (# 20) is being targeted as the team.

If that happened, add that to the list of places Athletes would flock instead of Indy (whereas Sacramento is not currently that much of an issue).

Bball
08-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Vegas might be interesting in that they might be able to fill the arena, albeit it might be tourists doing it. OTOH, the team would be competing with a lot of other entertainment options and I think the NBA might learn that their business model doesn't exactly make them 'can't miss' viewing when multiple other options exist. But that is just my opinion.

So IMO it could backfire entirely with tourists not giving a dayum about the NBA versus other options and locals not being star struck at all with NBA entertainment and star power when you consider they live around that kind of thing daily and aren't an absolutely HUGE market like LA or NY.

Then the next thing to consider is TV.... What would the TV ratings be like in Vegas, especially once the honeymoon was over?

ilive4sports
08-20-2012, 04:58 PM
I was in Vegas (# 40 on the list) over the weekend and ran into a guy who appeared to be knowledgeable (but in Vegas, appearances can be deceiving) about their city's strong push to lure either NHL and/or NBA teams, based on their ability to draw large vendor/sponsor revenues from hotels and casinos. Apparently the NBA has suggested that if sponsor revenue can be guaranteed, Vegas would have an inside track for any re-location. He also suggested their metro market was well over 1 million, despite the smaller number for their Vegas market. Apparently there will be talk soon about a stadium being built. He suggested that Sacramento (# 20) is being targeted as the team.

If that happened, add that to the list of places Athletes would flock instead of Indy (whereas Sacramento is not currently that much of an issue).
I honestly believe that the Maloofs have been difficult about this new arena in Sacramento because of Vegas. They love Vegas and I think most people know that they want to be there.

Eleazar
08-20-2012, 05:32 PM
I don't know about you guys but I was surprised to see Ft Wayne is smaller than both South Bend and Evansville.

Bball
08-20-2012, 06:59 PM
I don't know about you guys but I was surprised to see Ft Wayne is smaller than both South Bend and Evansville.

I'm surprised Ft Wayne hasn't been bulldozed over and erased from the history books... but that might just be me... ;)

Eleazar
08-20-2012, 09:16 PM
I'm surprised Ft Wayne hasn't been bulldozed over and erased from the history books... but that might just be me... ;)

Haha, I don't care either way, just know that Ft. Wayne is the second largest city in Indiana and is bigger than Evansville and South Bend combined.

docpaul
08-20-2012, 11:11 PM
I find these numbers and groupings odd... as they don't bundle metropolitan areas together in some cases, and they do in others. For example, Fort Myers, FL and Naples, FL are bundled together in a single number despite being close to 60 min apart... But the Indy calculation doesn't account for the MSA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_metropolitan_area

Per these data, Indy MSA is >2,000,000

Peck
08-20-2012, 11:34 PM
I find these numbers and groupings odd... as they don't bundle metropolitan areas together in some cases, and they do in others. For example, Fort Myers, FL and Naples, FL are bundled together in a single number despite being close to 60 min apart... But the Indy calculation doesn't account for the MSA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_metropolitan_area


Per these data, Indy MSA is >2,000,000

Exactly what I was wondering. Orlando & Melbourne are almost 70 miles from one another if that is the case then Indianapolis should be able to include Anderson, Lafayette, Shelbyville and everything in between but for whatever reason it doesn't work like that.

Unclebuck
08-21-2012, 08:37 AM
OK, I always thought that TV market size refered to number of homes in the local TV market. IN other words if you live in Columbus Indiana and you get the Indianapolis local TV stations than you are within the Indianapolis TV market. And I still think that is the case. Remember the numbers listed above are TV homes. Meaning a family of 7 just counts as 1 TV home. Although I'm not sure that makes sense either

Maybe it gets difficult when certain cities/tiwns get more than 1 set of local TV stations.

I know for example Angola, Indiana gets Fort Wayne Stations, but also Kalamazoo, Lansing and maybe a couple more. I know South Bend has there own local TV market, but as you move closer to Chicago when does it become the Chicago market? So maybe if you live in a city that gets more than 1 set of local stations you aren't counted?

Major Cold
08-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Haha, I don't care either way, just know that Ft. Wayne is the second largest city in Indiana and is bigger than Evansville and South Bend combined.

Besides the Zoo, Tincaps, Komets, Mad Ants, and IPFW there isn't much. Couple of bars (if you are into that) and gentleman establishments (if you are into that). Really the biggest part of the city are the hospitals.

docpaul
08-21-2012, 10:47 AM
OK, I always thought that TV market size refered to number of homes in the local TV market. IN other words if you live in Columbus Indiana and you get the Indianapolis local TV stations than you are within the Indianapolis TV market. And I still think that is the case. Remember the numbers listed above are TV homes. Meaning a family of 7 just counts as 1 TV home. Although I'm not sure that makes sense either

Maybe it gets difficult when certain cities/tiwns get more than 1 set of local TV stations.

I know for example Angola, Indiana gets Fort Wayne Stations, but also Kalamazoo, Lansing and maybe a couple more. I know South Bend has there own local TV market, but as you move closer to Chicago when does it become the Chicago market? So maybe if you live in a city that gets more than 1 set of local stations you aren't counted?

Ah, you've made the key observation: TV homes do not equal individuals... I would presume that the 1.1 million TV homes refer to 3-4 million people. So it is likely largely the broader MSA, which includes Carmel, Noblesville, Fishers, etc etc.

gummy
08-21-2012, 07:49 PM
Besides the Zoo, Tincaps, Komets, Mad Ants, and IPFW there isn't much. Couple of bars (if you are into that) and gentleman establishments (if you are into that). Really the biggest part of the city are the hospitals.

Nah. Sometimes you have to dig a bit but there is more than that to be had, and it really just depends on what you want. For example, there are some nice art galleries/museums, a movie theater that shows independent films, a small local band scene, the botanical garden, and the central library is pretty nice (one of the largest genealogy collections in the country, among other things) for a city of that size. Having just gone back last month I was struck by how much more vibrant the place seems than it was when I grew up there in the 80s. People still ***** about there being nothing to do, but then they don't really look much either, as if they expect entertainment to just smack them in the face. That doesn't really happen unless you live somewhere like NYC, LA or Chicago.

Eleazar
08-21-2012, 08:01 PM
Nah. Sometimes you have to dig a bit but there is more than that to be had, and it really just depends on what you want. For example, there are some nice art galleries/museums, a movie theater that shows independent films, a small local band scene, the botanical garden, and the central library is pretty nice (one of the largest genealogy collections in the country, among other things) for a city of that size. Having just gone back last month I was struck by how much more vibrant the place seems than it was when I grew up there in the 80s. People still ***** about there being nothing to do, but then they don't really look much either, as if they expect entertainment to just smack them in the face. That doesn't really happen unless you live somewhere like NYC, LA or Chicago.

I am pretty sure everyone outside of NYC, LA, Chicago, and LV complain about there never being anything to do in their town/city.