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MillerTime
08-15-2012, 12:23 AM
Big men in this league are always overpaid...look at the comparables...


Consider this...
Johan Petro $3,500,000
Mirza Teletovic $3,090,000
DeSagana Diop $7,372,200
Brendan Haywood $7,624,500
Chris Andersen $4,234,000
Jason Maxiell $5,000,000
Ryan Gomes $4,000,000
Joel Anthony $3,600,000
Kwame Brown $6,750,000
Brad Miller $4,752,000
Nazr Mohammed $3,750,000
Hakim Warrick $4,000,000
Chuck Hayes $5,250,000
Amir Johnson $5,500,000

looking back at it, his contact isnt that bad.

pacergod2
08-15-2012, 12:39 AM
I want to thank this 1,000 times.

imbtyler
08-15-2012, 01:48 AM
Short, sweet, to the point. I like it!

Pingu
08-15-2012, 03:22 AM
And to think we could have had Mirza Teletovic for only $3M/year...

pacersgroningen
08-15-2012, 04:29 AM
And to think we could have had Mirza Teletovic for only $3M/year...
Isn't he going to be something like Murphleavy without the rebounding and horrendous contract?

wintermute
08-15-2012, 05:59 AM
Big men in this league are always overpaid...look at the comparables...


Consider this...
Johan Petro $3,500,000
Mirza Teletovic $3,090,000
DeSagana Diop $7,372,200
Brendan Haywood $7,624,500
Chris Andersen $4,234,000
Jason Maxiell $5,000,000
Ryan Gomes $4,000,000
Joel Anthony $3,600,000
Kwame Brown $6,750,000
Brad Miller $4,752,000
Nazr Mohammed $3,750,000
Hakim Warrick $4,000,000
Chuck Hayes $5,250,000
Amir Johnson $5,500,000

looking back at it, his contact isnt that bad.

Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

(I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.

Sparhawk
08-15-2012, 07:19 AM
wintermute and I agree, plus he's using more recent contracts, and not last year's numbers.

Ian got a pretty fair contract to me.

The only thing I'm not too happy about is that he isn't a strong rebounder. West isn't a strong rebounder, Tyler isn't a strong rebounder, Ian not a strong rebounder. Hibbs, while not elite, is an above average rebounder.

I guess Plumlee is a strong rebounder, but he certainly didn't show it at Summer League.

Vogel has his work cut out for him and so he better be preaching and teaching guys to box out. Lack of rebounders could hurt.

Also, Hibbs and Ian are both foul prone. I could see Plumlee getting some minutes this year. If the Pacers don't bring in another PF, I would hope that Plumlee work his way into the backup PF if Tyler continues to struggle.

MillerTime
08-15-2012, 07:30 AM
Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

(I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.

I just used the numbers available at Shamsports

ballism
08-15-2012, 07:39 AM
I just used the numbers available at Shamsports

Shamsports gets updated about once or twice a year, as far as i've seen they aren't up to date now.

ballism
08-15-2012, 07:50 AM
Isn't he going to be something like Murphleavy without the rebounding and horrendous contract?

i think a copy of Tyler. a bit more range.

ballism
08-15-2012, 07:56 AM
re the general point - i agree, there's no reason to be upset about the contract.

the trade was the upsetting part.

the contract size is fine.
obviously, he'll have to live up to it. Brendan Haywood could've been had for 2 mil per, and Mahinmi didn't exactly outplay him last year.
but it's a solid bet. Mahinmi's young and solid.

Major Cold
08-15-2012, 08:09 AM
The OP and wintermute's post is an example of relativity.

graphic-er
08-15-2012, 08:14 AM
Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves

One of the best value contracts in the league if you ask me, and that should have been about where Mahinmi landed.

D-BONE
08-15-2012, 08:17 AM
To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.

Yep. We're out on a limb somewhat here. Yes, he's regarded as a Mr. P. But, now he has to realize it at least to the level of a regular second - line contributor. Otherwise, we'll have some egg on our face, at least in terms of contract length.

Along the same lines, this seemed to be the main strategy for our three offseason (non-draft) acquisitions. Go for potential types and hope we get larger than expected returns. Mahinmi and Green both could feasibly develop pretty far beyond their established baseline performance. Agustin could recoup pre-injury, pre-abjectly awful Bobcats performance.

Only issue is, as we know, the "P" game is always a crap shoot. But, it's probably a good philosophy for us assuming that we were unfortunately never legit players for the FA big names.

jeffg-body
08-15-2012, 08:18 AM
Really, what is so bad about his contract? He is a solid young big with potential. Those don't come cheap these days.

Pacer Fan
08-15-2012, 08:55 AM
As the moment of the trade happened, I was and still thrilled we got him. Only he will disappoint now and I don't see that happening. Pacers have everything for paint presence that didn't have last year. Fantastic job FO.

Unclebuck
08-15-2012, 08:56 AM
I didn't know people were upset about his contract.

PGisthefuture
08-15-2012, 09:16 AM
As the moment of the trade happened, I was and still thrilled we got him. Only he will disappoint now and I don't see that happening. Pacers have everything for paint presence that didn't have last year. Fantastic job FO.

Agreed, I feel real good about our big men rotation.

Ace E.Anderson
08-15-2012, 10:32 AM
Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves

One of the best value contracts in the league if you ask me, and that should have been about where Mahinmi landed.

Stiemsma: 3pts, 2 rebs, 13 mpg regular season
1pt, 2 rebs, 7.5 min postseason

Mahinmi: 6pts, 5 rebs, 19 mpg regular season
7pts, 4 rebs, 17 mpg postseason

I don't think their production warrants a similar contract


To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.

Mahinmi WAS a core rotational player for the Mavs the past two years. He's improved every year he was there. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to put up similar if not increased production for the Pacers.

naptownmenace
08-15-2012, 10:36 AM
He's a better defender than anyone we had last year coming off the bench at Center or PF. He's proven he can be productive in limited minutes. He also has playoff experience.

In a lot of ways he's a poor man's Serge Ibaka.

BRushWithDeath
08-15-2012, 11:40 AM
I didn't know people were upset about his contract.

After signing a combo guard to be our starting point for the next 5 years at double the annual cost, I'm not sure how Mahnimi's contract would generate much vitriol.

Peck
08-15-2012, 11:47 AM
He's a better defender than anyone we had last year coming off the bench at Center or PF. He's proven he can be productive in limited minutes. He also has playoff experience.

In a lot of ways he's a poor man's Serge Ibaka.

Is he really better than Lou? I'm actually just asking because honestly I have no idea but for a backup I always thought Lou was pretty good.

cdash
08-15-2012, 11:51 AM
I didn't think it was the contract people were upset about. The trade to get him was worse than the contract.

Ace E.Anderson
08-15-2012, 11:53 AM
Is he really better than Lou? I'm actually just asking because honestly I have no idea but for a backup I always thought Lou was pretty good.

Honestly he's probably just as good as Lou, but about 4 inches taller and with better length/athleticism.

I think the bigger difference in the two players aside from their height is that Mahinmi is a good finisher around the basket. Lou would routinely miss a put back or alley-oop, where I think Ian will be able to just stuff it through the hoop.

Peck
08-15-2012, 12:10 PM
Honestly he's probably just as good as Lou, but about 4 inches taller and with better length/athleticism.

I think the bigger difference in the two players aside from their height is that Mahinmi is a good finisher around the basket. Lou would routinely miss a put back or alley-oop, where I think Ian will be able to just stuff it through the hoop.

How tall is he? Lou is 6'9" is he listed at 7'1"?

Edit: I just went and looked he is listed at 6'11" so he's only 2" taller than Lou.

Hicks
08-15-2012, 12:25 PM
Listed numbers being whatever they may, you will easily notice the difference in height and length between Lou and Ian when you see him play. It's a significant difference.

Ace E.Anderson
08-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Listed numbers being whatever they may, you will easily notice the difference in height and length between Lou and Ian when you see him play. It's a significant difference.

I know the whole NBA "listed" height is a mystery to me, but (to me at least) Lou looked very small against many C's and even some PF's. Ian is definitely a legit 6'11

Heisenberg
08-15-2012, 01:38 PM
Lou was 6'7 1/4" at the combine. 6'8 with shoes. Can't find anything but the team measurements for Mahinmi, which are always questionable.

Rogco
08-15-2012, 01:45 PM
re the general point - i agree, there's no reason to be upset about the contract.

the trade was the upsetting part.

the contract size is fine.
obviously, he'll have to live up to it. Brendan Haywood could've been had for 2 mil per, and Mahinmi didn't exactly outplay him last year.
but it's a solid bet. Mahinmi's young and solid.

Trade upset me too, but heard it might have been done to help free up space for green and augustin? Been trying to give the FO some benefit of the doubt on that one.

Was also bothered that Landry was 2 year 8 mill. I'm not even a Landry fan, but for that I think he would have been a great addition.

Rogco
08-15-2012, 01:50 PM
Lou always looked a bit short to me (and, I know this is a weird way to say this, Hans looks really short for his size.)

fwpacerfan
08-15-2012, 02:03 PM
Of your list, Haywood, Andersen, Gomes are already amnestied, Brad Miller is already bought out, and the Kwame Brown and Nazr Mohammed info is outdated. Kwame and Nazr are now on much cheaper contracts, as listed below.

That list reads like a who's who of overpaid backup bigs in the NBA. I'm not at all proud that our new signing seems to fit right in with that bunch. The only names I like on the list are Hayes and Amir Johnson, but even I realize that their production don't match their contracts. Hayes especially has been disappointing on the Kings.

A fairer comparison would be to see how much other similar bigs signed for this offseason. Here's a (more or less) comprehensive list of such signings (ordered by annual salary):

Omer Asik, 3 years $25m, Rockets
Brandon Bass, 3 years $20m, Celtics
Spencer Hawes, 2 years $13m, Sixers
Jason Thompson, 5 years $30m, Kings
Robin Lopez, 3 years $15m, Hornets
Boris Diaw, 2 years $9m, Spurs
Marreese Speights, 2 years $9m, Grizzlies
Marcus Camby, 3 years $13m, Knicks
Ian Mahinmi, 4 years $16m, Pacers
Jordan Hill, 2 years $8m, Lakers
Carl Landry, 2 years $8m, Warriors
JJ Hickson, 1 year $4m, Blazers
Mirza Teletovic, 3 years $9m, Nets
Kwame Brown, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Lavoy Allen, 2 years $6m, Sixers
Greg Stiemsma, 2 years $5m, TWolves
Anthony Randolph, 3 years $6m, Nuggets
Reggie Evans, 3 years $5m, Nets
Vyacheslav Kravtsov, 2 years $3m, Pistons
Hamed Haddadi, 2 years $2.3m, Grizzlies
Hasheem Thabeet, 2 years $2m, Thunder
Nazr Mohammed, 1 year vet min, Bulls
Jason Collins, 1 year vet min, Celtics
Joel Przybilla, 1 year vet min, Bucks
Ronny Turiaf, 1 year vet min, Clippers
Chris Wilcox, 1 year vet min, Celtics

(I'm probably missing some vet min guys)

I've leave it up to the reader to judge for himself/herself whether Mahinmi's contract is good value in light of other teams' signings. I will point out though that his 4 year contract stands out - only Jason Thompson of the Kings got a longer contract. In terms of annual salary, the guys at the top are expected to start, while the guys at the bottom are obvious backups. Mahinmi's $4m annual salary would fall somewhere in the middle.

To me anyway, I think Mahinmi's contract comes up with raised expectations. He's being paid like a core rotation player, so I'm expecting him to be able to hold down a rotation spot at least.

I think looking at past contracts as well as current contracts are the only way to judge this contract. How does his contract compare to recent contracts of comparable players and also how does it compare to current peers.

Any way you look at it - his contract is not too bad. Now he just has to perform.

Heisenberg
08-15-2012, 02:07 PM
If they didn't give it to him I wouldn't have made these, so there's that

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5412/mahinmithumbsup.gif
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2959/mahinmibicepkiss.gif

He just seems like a fun, good natured dude, I think he's going to be a nice fit culturally at least.

pacergod2
08-15-2012, 02:49 PM
The way I look at it is that we traded DC and DJ for Ian and DJ. I think we upgraded two rotation positions. Do I think we could have gotten more "value" in trading DC, possibly, but "value" is in the eye of the beholder. I think we were doing DC a favor as much as anything since we knew we wanted to go in a different direction.

Ian is a well worth what we gave him. The thing I notice from that list are the people who have as much talent as Ian are either paid more or are head cases. Ian has a ton of raw talent that he has proven that he can grow as a player. I think we prioritize, when evaluating a player, their ability to grow. The four years is the most important part of the deal. We get stability from him and a chance to help him continue to grow. He is paid like a rotation player, but he also gets the security of a fourth year. I think the deal was brilliant and that made me go from scratching my head a little with that trade (from a cap standpoint) to being thrilled about.

Ian was a vastly improved player last year over previous years.

Hicks
08-15-2012, 03:00 PM
Lou was 6'7 1/4" at the combine. 6'8 with shoes. Can't find anything but the team measurements for Mahinmi, which are always questionable.

Making Tyler Hansbrough a full inch taller than Lou, which is pretty damning for Lou. Tyler is 6'8.25".

Ian is pretty clearly superior to both of them in terms of height. I see him listed in shoes at 6'10 or 6'11 depending on where you look. I can't pin down his measurements, but when Googling I did notice references to him having a good wingspan, which given his height and position I'm assuming that means it's probably no less than 7'2" or so.

Height certainly isn't everything, but typically more is better in this case. Physically speaking, I'd rather have an athletic 6'10/6'11 guy with a 7'2+" wingspan at backup 5 than an athletic 6'8 guy with a 6'11.5" wingspan.

I'll add that after watching Ian on SynergySports the other night, I'm confident he's more offensively skilled than Lou. A low bar to cross, but nonetheless he does cross it by a couple of notches. He's pretty rough himself, but compared to Lou he's Roy Hibbert.

BRushWithDeath
08-15-2012, 03:10 PM
Making Tyler Hansbrough a full inch taller than Lou, which is pretty damning for Lou.

I think Tyler looks so much smaller than his listed height because of posture more than anything. Meaning, he seems to actually be hunched over 95% of the time on the court. It's like he's slouching. It almost reminds me of a turtle or something.

It's why he can be an inch taller than Lou in a combine measurement but still look smaller in real life.

McKeyFan
08-15-2012, 03:49 PM
This just occurred to me, but it makes sense that Rick Carlisle would pick up the phone and call Larry if a solid potential player was available.

What I don't know, because I don't follow caps and LT and stuff, is whether Dallas was in some kind of position where Cuban was telling Rick that Ian would probably have to be sacrificed. If so, Rick calls his bud Larry and tips him off. Larry goes for it, because who knows better than the guy's actual coach if the "potential" thing is real or just idle talk?

Peck
08-15-2012, 05:10 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RGZxumR8RgY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.

Ace E.Anderson
08-15-2012, 05:25 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RGZxumR8RgY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.

The only thing I have against that lineup is the lack of frontcourt scoring/finishing ability. As much as we dislike Hans on this board, he still netted 8pts a game, and had been a double digit scoring season in the past. He at least provides a threat of being able to score. Lou is a complete nonfactor offensively and when he's struggling on defense as well, he's basically useless to have in the game. Also it's more than just 2" of height. It's length, and athleticism which we desperately lacked up front. He gives us a presence of size in the paint when Roy is on the bench, or potentially gives a twin towers type look when he plays alongside Roy.

I get your point Peck and I like Lou a lot and we will miss his energy, but he hamstrung us a few times because of his shortcomings.

MvPlumlee
08-15-2012, 06:02 PM
This just occurred to me, but it makes sense that Rick Carlisle would pick up the phone and call Larry if a solid potential player was available.

What I don't know, because I don't follow caps and LT and stuff, is whether Dallas was in some kind of position where Cuban was telling Rick that Ian would probably have to be sacrificed. If so, Rick calls his bud Larry and tips him off. Larry goes for it, because who knows better than the guy's actual coach if the "potential" thing is real or just idle talk?
It woudn't surprise me if something like that happened. Although it helped the Mavs were still looking for a decent starting PG.

CableKC
08-15-2012, 06:14 PM
I think Tyler looks so much smaller than his listed height because of posture more than anything. Meaning, he seems to actually be hunched over 95% of the time on the court. It's like he's slouching. It almost reminds me of a turtle or something.

It's why he can be an inch taller than Lou in a combine measurement but still look smaller in real life.
Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.

If he could learn to play more like Glen Davis, then that would be better. Hansbrough is strong.....but can't really leap very high. If he was able to establish very good positioning...it may help his defense.

Heisenberg
08-15-2012, 06:36 PM
Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.

If he could learn to play more like Glen Davis, then that would be better. Hansbrough is strong.....but can't really leap very high. If he was able to establish very good positioning...it may help his defense.Davis has great feet though and is pretty quick and nimble, obviously Tyler has none of that. It'd be great, and Hans could learn a lot from watching tape of guys like Davis, he just doesn't have the physical advantages that Davis has.

Yes. Tyler Hansbrough doesn't have the physical advantages of Glen Davis. I just said that.

Cactus Jax
08-15-2012, 08:18 PM
Lou was terrible against Miami, completely useless. He's a decent regular season big when teams don't plan for him, but in the postseason his weaknesses can be exploited much easier. I'd rather have Lou/Ian as well but Tyler is negative value atm. They wouldn't have done this deal for Ian, had they been able to get rid of Tyler for anything, a 2nd but they needed the roster spots to get Green and Augustin.

Noodle
08-15-2012, 09:00 PM
Add in that Hansbrough doesn't have much of a vertical leap....it doesn't help him on the offensive or defensive end.

Griffin’s 35.5 inches
Hansbrough's 34 inches
Westbrook's 36.5 inches

What was that about vertical leap again? Dude has T-Rex arms. Vertical and athleticism is not a crutch of Tyler's.

cdash
08-15-2012, 09:04 PM
Griffin’s 35.5 inches
Hansbrough's 34 inches
Westbrook's 36.5 inches

What was that about vertical leap again? Dude has T-Rex arms. Vertical and athleticism is not a crutch of Tyler's.

Terrible defense and being a complete black hole on offense are, unfortunately.

Didn't your avatar have some crazy vertical number?

spreedom
08-15-2012, 09:09 PM
TBH the only thing about the Mahinmi contract that would bother me as a Pacers fan is the fact that Indy could have signed him outright to an identical deal without trading away Collison and Inferno. As a Mavs fan, I'm glad that the FO didn't go that route.

Noodle
08-15-2012, 09:14 PM
Terrible defense and being a complete black hole on offense are, unfortunately.

Didn't your avatar have some crazy vertical number?

40.5" I believe. Why?

cdash
08-15-2012, 09:24 PM
40.5" I believe. Why?

I was just curious. You always hear all the "amazing measurables" chatter surrounding Plumlee, but that number alone doesn't mean much to me unless it is lined up against others. Impressive number.

vnzla81
08-15-2012, 09:27 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/RGZxumR8RgY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

All I know is that Lou was responsible for 3 of the top 10 plays of the year & was in there for another one. I just hope we didn't lose anything for 2" of height. I've watche Ian on mysyngy as well and right now I think he is going to be a better offensive player than Lou but I don't think he will be nearly as physical.

I don't mind a better backup big man but I guess IMO we upgraded the wrong backup. I'd rather have Ian & Lou than Ian & Tyler.

I rather have Lou for 2mil a year than Ian for that contract, the upgrade is not that big I don't think, not only that but they gave DC away to get him.

Pacerized
08-15-2012, 09:40 PM
The only fair comparison for Ian's contract would be to other new cba contracts and as such I think we overpaid somewhat and didn't have to offer so many years. He's been in the league for 5 years now and has been able to work with 2 of the best big men in the game in Duncan and Dirk yet hasn't really done much yet so I think a 4 year commitment is a stretch.
Having said that I'm not highly upset over his contract, the trade upsets me more. We had cap space and so did Cuban. I think it says something that Cuban would rather have Kaman and DC then Ian. We didn't use all our cap space anyway so I'd much rather have signed Kaman for 8 mil then Ian for 4 mil. especially when looking at the length of their contracts.

Ace E.Anderson
08-15-2012, 09:41 PM
TBH the only thing about the Mahinmi contract that would bother me as a Pacers fan is the fact that Indy could have signed him outright to an identical deal without trading away Collison and Inferno. As a Mavs fan, I'm glad that the FO didn't go that route.

They did so in order to free up a roster space and cap room to sign Green and DJ.

Noodle
08-15-2012, 10:03 PM
I keep hearing, "It's not the money, it's the trade I hate so much". Personally I like the contract. It is fair for a servicable, back-up, big man. Seriously, many of the same posters who are mad about the trade also couldn't stand Collison. I was one of those who felt that Collison was a major disappointment, and a complete defensive liability. So, I will reserve my feelings about the trade once the season begins. I like the fact that we made room to sign Gerald Green, and got a quick, solid, temporary replacement in Augustin.

Hicks
08-15-2012, 11:39 PM
Griffin’s 35.5 inches
Hansbrough's 34 inches
Westbrook's 36.5 inches

What was that about vertical leap again? Dude has T-Rex arms. Vertical and athleticism is not a crutch of Tyler's.

Tyler's running vertical is fine, but his standing vertical stinks, which is why he gets in trouble around the rim.

Trader Joe
08-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Tyler's running vertical is fine, but his standing vertical stinks, which is why he gets in trouble around the rim.

He also keeps the ball too low. even if you were the best leaper in the world holding the ball at your groin constantly is going to result in a lot of messed up opportunities.

xIndyFan
08-16-2012, 04:16 PM
Tyler's running vertical is fine, but his standing vertical stinks, which is why he gets in trouble around the rim.

jeff foster was like that when he was still a young player. given a running start, he could get up pretty high. but not standing still. maybe it's something in the water in mid-america. :laugh:

Trader Joe
08-16-2012, 04:18 PM
jeff foster was like that when he was still a young player. given a running start, he could get up pretty high. but not standing still. maybe it's something in the water in mid-america. :laugh:

Well again go back and watch old video of Jeff, he always kept his arms up when the ball was heading towards the rim, that's a natural advantage for rebounding, Jeff was also pretty good at keeping the ball high when he did grab it or receive it. Tyler is really bad at both of these things.

xIndyFan
08-16-2012, 05:02 PM
Well again go back and watch old video of Jeff, he always kept his arms up when the ball was heading towards the rim, that's a natural advantage for rebounding, Jeff was also pretty good at keeping the ball high when he did grab it or receive it. Tyler is really bad at both of these things.

no argument here. jeff did a lot of things that tyler doesn't. which is too bad.

i always thought the way jeff jumps as unusual. he jumped so high on the move, mainly in rebounding on the move. but couldn't block a shot worth a dam. tyler kinda jumps the same way.

OlBlu
08-16-2012, 10:08 PM
Nice observation......:cool: