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Nateorade
08-09-2012, 10:31 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8252042/sources-dwight-howard-los-angeles-lakers-four-team-deal-complete

Wanted to post because I didn't see it anywhere else. Bynum is a 76er now...

Thoughts on how it affects us?

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:32 PM
@SamAmicoFSO: May have already been reported, but my sources say Howard to Lakers deal is complete.

TMJ31
08-09-2012, 10:33 PM
:rolleyes: :bs:

joew8302
08-09-2012, 10:35 PM
I will believe it when it is signed, sealed and delivered.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:36 PM
Bynum in Philly makes them better too, trade makes non sense to Denver in my opinion and Orlando gets screwed.

*astrisk*
08-09-2012, 10:36 PM
I would say it actually improves our chances at a better record. No Dwight means Magic, No Problem... Bynum is not gonna make a big enough impact with the 76ers to offset loss of Iguodala and increase their odds against us, either... AND, he may not resign with them next year? Win for us!

Solomon Grundy
08-09-2012, 10:37 PM
It's championship or bust for the Lakers. I predict bust.

Dr. Awesome
08-09-2012, 10:37 PM
**** the NBA.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 10:38 PM
Sixers just made off like Bandits and are likely laughing hardest out of everyone who is not part of the Magic Organization. Not really sure about how good/bad it is for the Nuggets, but at minimum I can say they improved defensively. I have to wonder though, what made the Magic go through with this trade? I know the Lakers, Nuggets and 79ers give protected 1st round picks, but it just seems odd that this is deal that made the Magic go "Well we can't do better than this" or something to that degree.

Kstat
08-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Joke of a trade for orlando.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:39 PM
It's championship or bust for the Lakers. I predict bust.

Doubt it, Nash, Kobe, Artest, Gasol and Howard? = Championship.

Young
08-09-2012, 10:40 PM
I am just glad this clown finally got his wish and traded.

Solomon Grundy
08-09-2012, 10:41 PM
Doubt it, Nash, Kobe, Artest, Gasol and Howard? = Championship.

I could argue every player you just mentioned that is not named Dwight Howard is on the decline. And Howard has back issues...

*astrisk*
08-09-2012, 10:42 PM
What does worry me about this is that I believe that Bynum will likely end up in Atlanta next year, as he for all intents and purposes is beginning his free agency now. Don't like how Atlanta has positioned themselves to be players next year in free agency and it seems as if their might be motivation from around the league for players to exodus there. We will see

Dr. Awesome
08-09-2012, 10:42 PM
You know, **** like this is exactly why the NBA is losing more and more fans every year. There is no point to even watch the NBA if your a fan of smaller markets anymore. The NBA happily ****s over 27 teams for the benefit of 5.

I hate the NBA, I really do. However, I have this love for the Indiana Pacers. I can't not follow them, its sad. However, of all the sports, NBA is my least favorite. My love for a random team hundreds of miles away keeps me here and keeps me following every single game they play.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 10:43 PM
What does worry me about this is that I believe that he will likely end up in Atlanta next year, as he for all intensive purposes is beginning his free agency now. Don't like how Atlanta has positioned themselves to be players next year in free agency and it seems as if their might be motivation from around the league for players to exodus there. We will see

And end up with less $$$? I know Dwight has made multiple dumb moves and gutted his PR image, but even he knows it's all about the green.


You know, **** like this is exactly why the NBA is losing more and more fans every year. There is no point to even watch the NBA if your a fan of smaller markets anymore. The NBA happily ****s over 27 teams for the benefit of 5.

I hate the NBA, I really do. However, I have this love for the Indiana Pacers. I can't not follow them, its sad. However, of all the sports, NBA is my least favorite. My love for a random team hundreds of miles away keeps me here and keeps me following every single game they play.

NBA isn't screwing over anyone. The NBA owners and GMs are. They are the ones who make these deals that are questionable and make us all go "wtf?". They don't complain when bad deals like that happen, but when the Chris Paul deal was going through (It was fair for all three teams) you saw Dan Gilbert and some others crying it isn't fair that the Lakers get the good players. You can't knock the Lakers for actually being smart and sometimes lucky. It's why the Lakers, Celtics and Spurs are teams that for the most part are in contention multiple times during a decade. They will make bad deals every now and then, but you don't see them consistently making horrific deals over a long period of time.

I'm still wondering myself why the Magic went through with this as if it was the best thing they could get for Howard. I'm sure they could have done better.

Cactus Jax
08-09-2012, 10:44 PM
Waiting for Dwight to say he won't re-sign with the Lakers, and the whole trade to fall apart, hopefully that doesn't happen for all that is holy.

PR07
08-09-2012, 10:44 PM
At least he's out of the East, but I hate to see him end up on the Lakers.

However, Roy Hibbert has to be smiling. And yes, I think he can take Bynum.

HC
08-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Waiting for Dwight to say he won't re-sign with the Lakers, and the whole trade to fall apart, hopefully that doesn't happen for all that is holy.

Anything is possible with that guy.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:45 PM
I could argue every player you just mentioned that is not named Dwight Howard is on the decline. And Howard has back issues...

I can argue that those players even though they are in declined together make a badass team.

BRushWithDeath
08-09-2012, 10:45 PM
You know, **** like this is exactly why the NBA is losing more and more fans every year. There is no point to even watch the NBA if your a fan of smaller markets anymore. The NBA happily ****s over 27 teams for the benefit of 5.

The NBA isn't losing fans after the recent so called "super team" trend. They're gaining them. In droves. You may not like it, but the public absolutely loves it. This won't hurt the NBA's reputation in any way, shape, or form.

TMJ31
08-09-2012, 10:46 PM
The bigger they are... The harder they fall...

I can't wait.

Haywoode Workman
08-09-2012, 10:47 PM
*intents and purposes

Hicks
08-09-2012, 10:47 PM
I'll admit it: I'm jealous of Lakers fans. Can you imagine having your favorite team go through guys like Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Bynum, Gasol, and Dwight? Unbelievable. And that's just their centers.

I forget they also signed Antawn Jamison, so he may start at 3 for them. Nash, Kobe, Jamison, Gasol, Dwight. Ugh. At least they're old and out west. Playing against them in 2k13 will be a pain in the ***.

I do take Philly more seriously now. They just got a major upgrade at their weakest position for a guy playing the most disposable position in the NBA who, in a vacuum, probably never nets you a guy like Andrew. They probably won't challenge for the #2 seed, but they could be top 4, I think. If not, they just made the first round of the playoffs more dangerous for everyone else.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:47 PM
You know, **** like this is exactly why the NBA is losing more and more fans every year. There is no point to even watch the NBA if your a fan of smaller markets anymore. The NBA happily ****s over 27 teams for the benefit of 5.

I hate the NBA, I really do. However, I have this love for the Indiana Pacers. I can't not follow them, its sad. However, of all the sports, NBA is my least favorite. My love for a random team hundreds of miles away keeps me here and keeps me following every single game they play.

The NBA doesn't have the power to tell the Lakers not to screw every team and they for sure don't have the power to tell teams not to get screwed by the Lakers.

Nateorade
08-09-2012, 10:48 PM
I think it is actually a good trade for Orlando, they got 3 first round picks! Shed a bad contract and poised themselves to rebuild for the future. They are a small market and they have to do what they have to do. They could have taken everything NJ threw at them or this...I think this is probably better. Not to mention Al Harrington and Afflalo will be respectable.

ECKrueger
08-09-2012, 10:48 PM
The NBA isn't losing fans after the recent so called "super team" trend. They're gaining them. In droves. You may not like it, but the public absolutely loves it. This won't hurt the NBA's reputation in any way, shape, or form.

I'd speculate that they're just gaining more fans of the superteams than they are losing fans of small market teams. So while the number of fans total is going up, the people who actually enjoyed the NBA is going down, and they have more "casual fans" now.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 10:49 PM
I'd speculate that they're just gaining more fans of the superteams than they are losing fans of small market teams. So while the number of fans total is going up, the people who actually enjoyed the NBA is going down, and they have more "casual fans" now.

As long as the NBA is getting more $$$ every year, I sadly doubt they care what type of fan they get.

*astrisk*
08-09-2012, 10:50 PM
I edited my post. I was referring to bynum who will gain 40 million more by waiting to sign as a free agent...

rock747
08-09-2012, 10:50 PM
The NBA is just.... ridiculous.

PR07
08-09-2012, 10:51 PM
I'll admit it: I'm jealous of Lakers fans. Can you imagine having your favorite team go through guys like Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Bynum, Gasol, and Dwight? Unbelievable. And that's just their centers.


It would nice if that organization could develop their own great big man for once (and no I don't count Bynum). I'm getting tired of them stealing everyone else's.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 10:52 PM
At least he's out of the East, but I hate to see him end up on the Lakers.

However, Roy Hibbert has to be smiling. And yes, I think he can take Bynum.

:lmao:

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 10:54 PM
I'll admit it: I'm jealous of Lakers fans. Can you imagine having your favorite team go through guys like Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Bynum, Gasol, and Dwight? Unbelievable. And that's just their centers.


Yup, and I'm loving it. I get to watch the Pacers and Lakers hopefully dominate their respective conference. And a Pacers v Lakers NBA final? I'd be in heaven haha

Solomon Grundy
08-09-2012, 10:54 PM
I can argue that those players even though they are in declined together make a badass team.

I did forget about Antawn Jamison. They ARE a nice team on paper. I still think OKC and the Miami LeBrons are better teams...

PR07
08-09-2012, 10:56 PM
:lmao:

I never understand the infatuation with Bynum. He's good when he's not being a pouty baby which is like 50% of the time. Also, the double teams will come a lot more when he's not playing with Kobe or Gasol and is his team's primary scoring option. We'll see on this one.

xBulletproof
08-09-2012, 10:57 PM
The biggest step with the Lakers is who has the ball more often, Nash, or Kobe? If it's Nash, how does Kobe feel about that?

That's going to be huge.

HC
08-09-2012, 10:59 PM
The NBA isn't losing fans after the recent so called "super team" trend. They're gaining them. In droves. You may not like it, but the public absolutely loves it. This won't hurt the NBA's reputation in any way, shape, or form.

Majority of them aren't actually basketball fans, theyre just front runners. Once the show is over down there, most of them will disappear. You are right though, the NBA doesn't care as long as they are making money off of it.

MillerTime
08-09-2012, 10:59 PM
This is still premature...the teams have to call the NBA tomorrow to get their approval...we saw what happened to the CP3 deal...


A source tells Marc Stein that a trade call has been scheduled with the NBA league office for Friday morning.


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222914/Dwight_Howard_Trade_Call_Scheduled_For_Friday_Morn ing

NBA could reject the trade...it seems to good to be true for the Lakers...Lakers are reported to be traded away Bynum and a 1st rounder...we could do better by offering Granger, Hibbert and first rounder (which would have been rejected by the Magic)

HC
08-09-2012, 11:00 PM
I never understand the infatuation with Bynum. He's good when he's not being a pouty baby which is like 50% of the time. Also, the double teams will come a lot more when he's not playing with Kobe or Gasol and is his team's primary scoring option. We'll see on this one.

Who on the 76ers roster is gonna keep this guy in check? Doug Collins I guess.

*astrisk*
08-09-2012, 11:01 PM
*intents and purposes

You know, I always liked you as a player Haywoode... And you had the opportunity to call me an idiot and then correct me, but you didn't... You're a good man... I am not sure why my first thought was **** you! Just kidding bro, edited.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 11:01 PM
I never understand the infatuation with Bynum. He's good when he's not being a pouty baby which is like 50% of the time. Also, the double teams will come a lot more when he's not playing with Kobe or Gasol and is his team's primary scoring option. We'll see on this one.

The infatuation with him is that if he can get his act together and not be childish he easily will continue to be the 2nd best center in the NBA. He might never be called the best center in the NBA by a majority of people, but he has the ability to clearly make himself the #2 center in the NBA and by a wide margin. It's all about maturity with him at this point.

rock747
08-09-2012, 11:02 PM
I'd speculate that they're just gaining more fans of the superteams than they are losing fans of small market teams. So while the number of fans total is going up, the people who actually enjoyed the NBA is going down, and they have more "casual fans" now.

Which I think hurts them in the long run. When the casual fan draw is gone in a few years(L.A, Miami, etc)... the die hard small market fan bases that were disullisioned by their players jetting won't be there either. Hence, the only way for the NBA to be popular again is to have some big casual fan draw. I think we saw this after Jordan and the 90's with the early 2000's lack of interest in the NBA. The NBA has dug itself a hole where it needs the big show in order to survive and that's why I think there isn't going to be a rule change to fix what we currently see.

Sollozzo
08-09-2012, 11:02 PM
The biggest step with the Lakers is who has the ball more often, Nash, or Kobe? If it's Nash, how does Kobe feel about that?

That's going to be huge.


I'm sure 34 year old Kobe will be just fine with it. It might have been an issue with a 28 year old Kobe, but old Kobe will be just fine with letting Nash take over much of that task.

Good lord this LA team is stacked. The fact that they get to keep Gasol is huge. It looks like we may finally see that Kobe/Lebron Finals matchup that many have long wanted. Can you imagine the ratings that a Heat/Lakers finals would generate? Kobe, Nash, Howard, Gasol, Lebron, Wade, Bosh. It would just be obscene.

shags
08-09-2012, 11:03 PM
This is still premature...the teams have to call the NBA tomorrow to get their approval...we saw what happened to the CP3 deal...


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222914/Dwight_Howard_Trade_Call_Scheduled_For_Friday_Morn ing

NBA could reject the trade...it seems to good to be true for the Lakers...Lakers are reported to be traded away Bynum and a 1st rounder...we could do better by offering Granger, Hibbert and first rounder (which would have been rejected by the Magic)

David Stern isn't the de facto owner/GM of one of these teams. There won't be any "basketball reasons" stopping this deal.

Solomon Grundy
08-09-2012, 11:03 PM
I might be the only one on this thread who's interested in seeing what impact Iggy will have on the Nuggets. He isn't the pure scorer they need but he'll make them that much more entertaining to watch. Nuggets should be a fun team this year with guys like Iggy, Faried and McGee.

Dr. Awesome
08-09-2012, 11:03 PM
The Championship ratings have been going back up, but the regular season has been declining. Why? Because fans of small market teams no longer give a ****. A huge part of that is these players refusing to play for small market teams. I haven't noticed this problem in any other sport, at least not on anything close to the same scale.

ballism
08-09-2012, 11:06 PM
This is still premature...the teams have to call the NBA tomorrow to get their approval...we saw what happened to the CP3 deal...


http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222914/Dwight_Howard_Trade_Call_Scheduled_For_Friday_Morn ing

NBA could reject the trade...it seems to good to be true for the Lakers...Lakers are reported to be traded away Bynum and a 1st rounder...we could do better by offering Granger, Hibbert and first rounder (which would have been rejected by the Magic)
the league rejected that trade because they owned the Hornets and were responsible for running that organization.
they can't reject a trade because it makes some team better.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 11:06 PM
The Championship ratings have been going back up, but the regular season has been declining. Why? Because fans of small market teams no longer give a ****. A huge part of that is these players refusing to play for small market teams. I haven't noticed this problem in any other sport, at least not on anything close to the same scale.

Baseball might have something to say to that.

TMJ31
08-09-2012, 11:07 PM
Can you imagine the ratings that a Heat/Lakers finals would generate? Kobe, Nash, Howard, Gasol, Lebron, Wade, Bosh. It would just be obscene.

Count me as 1 household that would not be tuned in.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 11:07 PM
I still can't believe that Philly got the second best center in the NBA for Iguadola, damn.

shags
08-09-2012, 11:09 PM
The Championship ratings have been going back up, but the regular season has been declining. Why? Because fans of small market teams no longer give a ****. A huge part of that is these players refusing to play for small market teams. I haven't noticed this problem in any other sport, at least not on anything close to the same scale.

Um, no they're not. Regular season ratings are going up too.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/04/27/tnt-nets-highest-rated-and-most-viewed-nba-regular-season-network-garners-fifth-consecutive-season-of-viewership-growth/131201/

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012/04/nba-wrap-abc-has-highest-rated-most-viewed-nba-season-again/

Sollozzo
08-09-2012, 11:09 PM
I still can't believe that Philly got the second best center in the NBA for Iguadola, damn.


Yeah, that's the type of trade that you wish the Pacers could pull off.

HC
08-09-2012, 11:10 PM
Um, no they're not. Regular season ratings are going up too.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/04/27/tnt-nets-highest-rated-and-most-viewed-nba-regular-season-network-garners-fifth-consecutive-season-of-viewership-growth/131201/

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012/04/nba-wrap-abc-has-highest-rated-most-viewed-nba-season-again/

Maybe I'm wrong, but those are nationally televised games. Find the ratings for local sports networks.

shags
08-09-2012, 11:12 PM
I might be the only one on this thread who's interested in seeing what impact Iggy will have on the Nuggets. He isn't the pure scorer they need but he'll make them that much more entertaining to watch. Nuggets should be a fun team this year with guys like Iggy, Faried and McGee.

I agree with you. The Nuggets are going to be a real fun team to watch this year. Iguodala gives them a ton of flexibility with their roster, and they're real deep. How about a smallball lineup of Lawson, Miller, Iguodala, Gallinari, and McGee.

I think the Nuggets got better. They needed the extra roster spot to sign Quincy Miller, which was probably another reason for the trade.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 11:12 PM
Count me as 1 household that would not be tuned in.

I'll do that as the NBA counts the millions that do and David Stern goes "Yes....all according to plan" in his throne room.

HC
08-09-2012, 11:12 PM
Baseball might have something to say to that.

Idk, baseball is probably the least affected by this problem.

Ace E.Anderson
08-09-2012, 11:15 PM
Count me as 1 household that would not be tuned in.

Not a fan of watching the best players play in the finals?

*astrisk*
08-09-2012, 11:15 PM
I might be the only one on this thread who's interested in seeing what impact Iggy will have on the Nuggets. He isn't the pure scorer they need but he'll make them that much more entertaining to watch. Nuggets should be a fun team this year with guys like Iggy, Faried and McGee.

You are, infact, the only one who cares about that... BUT, you are right... Nuggets as a fringe play-off team were dangerous last year... Nice to see them bounce back from the enigmatic Carmello departure... They are sure to be a scarier defensive team than last years team. His stellar defensive prowess will no doubt offset the 2 buckets per game that Mcgee will put in the wrong basket... Maybe they got Iggy to defend Jevale after defensive rebounds..

Pacerized
08-09-2012, 11:15 PM
In 2 years at least 2 of these teams are going to be sorry they made this trade if not 3.
Philly made out if they can keep Bynum but in the short term they still aren't contending for a title and I have doubts if Bynum stays when you look at the core of that team. Denver is just plain stupid to make this trade. I'm honestly not that high on Iggy but he is a better player then Affalo as of now. In 2 years when their young team might really be coming around Affalo will be the better player. To give up a promising young player for an older player in the same position doesn't make any sense when you look at the stage Denver's team is in and then to throw in a pick is nuts.
L.A. makes out for a title run this year but if Howard goes to Dallas next year it would be great to see L.A. end up on the short end of the stick just once.
For the Magic to end up with Affalo and what will likely be a bunch of late 1st. round picks is less then I would have expected for them. When I think about it, there's a decent probability that in 2 years all the teams in this trade are losers.

TMJ31
08-09-2012, 11:16 PM
Not a fan of watching the best players play in the finals?

Nope.

TMJ31
08-09-2012, 11:16 PM
I'll do that as the NBA counts the millions that do and David Stern goes "Yes....all according to plan" in his throne room.

That may be, but I'll be able to sleep at night ;)

Sollozzo
08-09-2012, 11:17 PM
L.A. makes out for a title run this year but if Howard goes to Dallas next year it would be great to see L.A. end up on the short end of the stick just once.

Howard will retire a Laker.

Solomon Grundy
08-09-2012, 11:18 PM
I agree with you. The Nuggets are going to be a real fun team to watch this year. Iguodala gives them a ton of flexibility with their roster, and they're real deep. How about a smallball lineup of Lawson, Miller, Iguodala, Gallinari, and McGee.

I think the Nuggets got better. They needed the extra roster spot to sign Quincy Miller, which was probably another reason for the trade.

If they could find another big man who can score the ball they could be VERY interesting.

pizza guy
08-09-2012, 11:24 PM
Meh...same old story.

The Lakers, once again, look like favorites on paper. We'll just have to see what Mike Brown can do with that offense because he can no longer say, "Just give it to the best player and watch." They have three guys who have been the number 1 option on their teams for the majority of their career. How will they mesh? My guess is that Nash + Older Kobe will equal out to good team work. How do Howard and Gasol work together? Probably like one of the best front courts ever. No, I didn't mean for that to be in green.

A Miami vs. Los Angeles matchup in the Finals would break television rating records. WAAAYY too much star power in that one. Heck, just thinking about it myself, it would be incredible to watch. It's practically two Dream Teams going at it.

I'm no bigger fan of the "super team" trend than anyone else, but if they can get this to work out, there's potential for some seriously high quality basketball. Both teams can play amazing defense. Both teams have some of the best individuals in NBA history. If they can figure out the chemistry and teamwork, it'll be tremendous.

As for the NBA favoring some teams over the others, yeah, it bugs me too. LA and Boston are the cornerstones of the NBA, and they have some bit of good fortune, some bit of good management, some bit of good market, and some bit of being the favored sons. To me, it's what makes being a Pacers fan interesting. Once in a generation, we'll have a shot at making a run. When it finally happens and the pieces fall into place the right way, it will be the most incredible feeling as a fan. Like finding a diamond. There are only so many, and to find one in your backyard is way more exciting than seeing them in a jewelry store.

Blackhawk4
08-09-2012, 11:28 PM
That may be, but I'll be able to sleep at night ;)

I'll be sleeping very well if the Pacers and or Lakers reach the Finals :laugh:

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 11:30 PM
. To me, it's what makes being a Pacers fan interesting. Once in a generation, we'll have a shot at making a run. When it finally happens and the pieces fall into place the right way, it will be the most incredible feeling as a fan. Like finding a diamond. There are only so many, and to find one in your backyard is way more exciting than seeing them in a jewelry store.

Depression is kicking in in 3.... 2.....1 ... :sad:

croz24
08-09-2012, 11:31 PM
Makes me wonder if we could have been part of the deal instead of Philly had we offered up Granger and a couple of 1sts.

PR07
08-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Kareem...Shaq...Dwight. All of them spoonfed to the Lakers. Makes me sick.

Sollozzo
08-09-2012, 11:32 PM
If you're Orlando, how do you manage to get such a crap deal? I'd rather keep Howard to spite him than I would trade him for such a crappy package.

Lance George
08-09-2012, 11:35 PM
I find it incredible that Orlando held out this long only to settle for such a crummy deal. Afflalo's a nice role player, and Vucevic quietly had a solid rookie season, but this is by far the weakest return in all the recent superstar deals.

Philly now has the best center in the East (let's hope Roy can challenge for that title), and has Evan Turner to step into Iguodala's old role. Great deal for therm.

Denver gets an upgrade at shooting guard. Great deal for them.

L.A. gets the best center in the league and their next franchise player. Great deal for them.

Orlando gets table scraps and three low-to-mid 1st-round picks. :laugh:

PR07
08-09-2012, 11:37 PM
Orlando simply waited too long. It got to the point where Dwight's handful of suitors got narrowed down to pretty much just one team.

Brad8888
08-09-2012, 11:38 PM
The Finals might end up being the equivalent of dividing the Justice League of America and their super villain counterparts into two equal teams consisting of both super heroes and villains battling for supremacy of the Earth.

At least the Deciders now have a realistic fear of not winning it all next year.

Pacer Fan
08-09-2012, 11:41 PM
:lakers::dancingsager:




:76ers::mjpopcorn:



:nuggets::citizenkane:



:magic::nuclear:

Day-V
08-09-2012, 11:43 PM
It'll be interesting to see what the Lakers decide to do come NEXT year, when the Cap Penalties they'll have will be simply astronomical. Possibly in the high 8 digits.

vnzla81
08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
It'll be interesting to see what the Lakers decide to do come NEXT year, when the Cap Penalties they'll have will be simply astronomical. Possibly in the high 8 digits.

They don't care.

Sollozzo
08-09-2012, 11:58 PM
I really want to see a Kobe/Lebron Finals match-up before Kobe retires, but that's just me. Since Lebron entered the NBA, Kobe and Lebron have played in a combined 7 Finals, yet have never faced off against each other.

Day-V
08-10-2012, 12:00 AM
They don't care.

I'd normally agree with you in the 1:1 instances of before. But with Kobe taking up $30M alone next year, and the cap penalty being set at 2.5:1 for teams that go $10M-$15M over and then 3.25:1 for teams $15M+ over, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I think, and I'm sure most agree, that it means Gasol is gone before the 2013-2014 Season. If not, Kobe, Pau, and Nash alone are $58M. Howard would be roughly what? $15M? At least? That's a $48.75M penalty in itself right there, just for that year. Add on the $22.75M combined penalties for Steve Blake and Jordan Hill, and that's $71.5M in Penalties. PLUS, Artest has a Player Option worth $7.7M, so add an ADDITIONAL penalty of $25M for a total of $96.5 MILLION dollars in Salary Cap Penalties for 1 year of basketball.

And that's just 6-7 players. You still have to sign 6-7 more, and each one gets a 3.25x penalty.

CompACE
08-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Good lord... I just now heard about this. As a small-market team fan, this deal is soul-crushing.

As an aside, if you plan on getting NBA 2K13 when it comes out, expect a lot of Lakers vs. Heat online matches :)

Pacersalltheway10
08-10-2012, 12:20 AM
Words can't describe how ****ing pissed I am right now at how the NBA is now.

graphic-er
08-10-2012, 12:24 AM
Amazing trade. For those of you ******** all over it because its the Lakers, and just astounded that Philly pulled off some sort of heist. Pacers could have easily taken Philly's place in the deal with offering Granger, but we don't need Bynum. Center is not our weak position. Just don't sit there and pout that we didn't trade our best player for a Center that is going hit Free Agency next year.

You ought be more pissed that we didn't make any moves to pick up Scola, and blowing our flexibility on somebody like Ian Mahinmi too quickly.

Now as for Philly, very interesting pick up. I do believe that Jrich makes up for losing Lou Williams. Young can still play PF. But they are seriously putting their chips one Evan Turner to step up and be the type of player you expect from a #2 pick. THey easily have the best center rotation of any team though. Bynum and Hawes.

skyfire
08-10-2012, 12:34 AM
That is a truly horrible collection of players to acquire for Howard. The collection of whatever you could get from the Rockets would be better than that easily. They didn't even get rid of Turkoglu who has a much worse contract than Richardson.

graphic-er
08-10-2012, 12:43 AM
That is a truly horrible collection of players to acquire for Howard. The collection of whatever you could get from the Rockets would be better than that easily. They didn't even get rid of Turkoglu who has a much worse contract than Richardson.

Disagree, they are getting 3 first round picks. They will be middle to late picks but they will be able to package them to trade up in the draft.

Nobody was going to take Turkoglu. Nobody....Jrich has a bad contract but atleast he is an attractive player, who can really contribute.

skyfire
08-10-2012, 12:48 AM
Disagree, they are getting 3 first round picks. They will be middle to late picks but they will be able to package them to trade up in the draft.

Nobody was going to take Turkoglu. Nobody....Jrich has a bad contract but atleast he is an attractive player, who can really contribute.

Three non-lottery picks, meh.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 01:03 AM
@WojYahooNBA: Final Nets offer Orlando rejected in July: Lopez, Humphries (1 year, $9.6M), Brooks, 4 unprotected No. 1's for Howard, JRich, Duhon, Clark.


Amazing.

imbtyler
08-10-2012, 01:12 AM
I, too, am happy for Denver if this goes through. They still have their 13mil trade exception. They're definitely looking to be very exciting. Dre Miller, Iggy, Wilson Chandler, Kenneth Faried, Javale McGee. That's an intriguing lineup. If they can get one good passing point guard, that line-up will be the Mile-High Lob City. Good for the Sixers, too. Completely sucks for Orlando.

Oh, PS: **** the Lakers. Swear to God, I would hate Paul George if he decided to go there for the sake of hometown love. I wouldn't even care if he went to the Clippers. Just, straight up, completely and wholly, **** the Lakers.*



* except Josh McRoberts.

kidthecat
08-10-2012, 01:19 AM
I understand the frustration and/or anger over this trade, but one cannot deny how great this is for basketball. Before there were four playoff teams; now there is one legitimate title contender, two playoff teams, and one bottom-dweller. Much more interesting.

And now Miami is very much threatened by someone out west -- a team with HoF talent, experience, and the necessary size. I'm so excited for this season.

The league is better when the Lakers are great, despite the position in which that puts teams like the Pacers.

imbtyler
08-10-2012, 01:27 AM
Dear Entire Lakers Franchise:

IT'S NOT FAIR!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luh1tiM3ad1r1rdpa.gif


Dear Orlando Magic Front Office:

You spent all this time looking for a good trade, then go with this nonsense...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luh2mkqmCF1r1rdpa.gif


Dear Kevin Pritchard,

You're supposed to be the trade master! You couldn't get us anything for Tyler Hansbrough or something?!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx3omhMeB71qztuee.gif


Sincerely,
btyler

Peck
08-10-2012, 01:37 AM
Well at least Howard is out of the East. If I had to pick between playing Howard on the Nets or Bynum on the 76ers I'll take Bynum 10 out of 10 times.

However once again I can not express nearly in enough descriptive words how disgusted I am that once again the L.A. Lakers have gotten a franchise player who will be there for probably another 10 years. Yes I know it is irrational on my end but frankly I want Lakers fans to have to go through what every single other franchises fans have had to go through for a few years, losing.

Even the Celtics had a decade of being bad before they had their re-birth.

I'm sure glad we had that lockout last season so these super teams would stop being put together...

Sadly as much as all of us hate it this crap is actually good for the league's bottom dollar.

Hypnotiq
08-10-2012, 02:00 AM
I understand the frustration and/or anger over this trade, but one cannot deny how great this is for basketball. Before there were four playoff teams; now there is one legitimate title contender, two playoff teams, and one bottom-dweller. Much more interesting.

And now Miami is very much threatened by someone out west -- a team with HoF talent, experience, and the necessary size. I'm so excited for this season.

The league is better when the Lakers are great, despite the position in which that puts teams like the Pacers.

:laugh:

What the hell am i reading?

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 02:06 AM
Philly apparently swept in in like the last 2 days and got a 25 (when the season starts) year old C putting up 18/11/2 on a really good team for nothing but an overpaid wing. A really good one, granted, but that's outstanding for them.

Orlando should fire their new GM. So much for the theory that if he worked for the Spurs he's a genius.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 02:09 AM
Makes me wonder if we could have been part of the deal instead of Philly had we offered up Granger and a couple of 1sts.

No. Iggy's better. And Philly gave them Harkless too. Either way, why? So we can have 2 max Cs that can't play together?

King Tuts Tomb
08-10-2012, 02:10 AM
Gotta give the Lakers credit. They've had one lottery pic in the last decade and they picked the second best center in the league then traded him for the best center in the league. They're good because they maximize the opportunities they have. It's not luck and it's not because they're in LA. The Wizards, Cavs, Knicks etc are given chance after chance and squander them. The Lakers have one, and nail it.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 02:12 AM
It's not strictly because they're in LA, Kupchak is legitimately very good at his job.

But it's because they're in LA.

Hypnotiq
08-10-2012, 02:15 AM
Philly apparently swept in in like the last 2 days and got a 25 (when the season starts) year old C putting up 18/11/2 on a really good team for nothing but an overpaid wing. A really good one, granted, but that's outstanding for them.

Orlando should fire their new GM. So much for the theory that if he worked for the Spurs he's a genius.

He actually worked for the Thunder and has been absolutely horrendously BAD as a gm so far.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 02:16 AM
He actually worked for the Thunder and has been absolutely horrendously BAD as a gm so far.

He started with the Spurs. Followed Presti to OKC.

King Tuts Tomb
08-10-2012, 02:26 AM
It's not strictly because they're in LA, Kupchak is legitimately very good at his job.

But it's because they're in LA.

And so are the Clippers.

Being in LA helps the Lakers. Being a well run organization from top to bottom is how they win titles.

Hypnotiq
08-10-2012, 02:51 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8254353/nba-offseason-dwight-howard-deal-head-scratcher-magic

Someone with insider post this article please?

wintermute
08-10-2012, 03:16 AM
That is a truly horrible collection of players to acquire for Howard. The collection of whatever you could get from the Rockets would be better than that easily. They didn't even get rid of Turkoglu who has a much worse contract than Richardson.

Yeah absolutely horrible trade for Orlando. When Afflalo and Harkless are the biggest pieces coming back for Howard, you know it's a horrible return. And they got stuck with Harrington's contract too! They seriously couldn't get a better deal from Houston? Houston also has multiple first rounders, whose quality are on par with what the Magic are expected to receive. Houston also has the capacity to take on many more of Orlando's bad deals.

So Lakers turned Bynum into Howard, Sixers turned Iggy into Bynum, and Nuggets turned Afflalo into Iggy. And to balance that equation, Orlando absorbs a huge talent deficit. Why didn't they just keep Bynum for themselves? Bynum and the shooters that they have (and can't unload) should at least let them have another go at the playoffs.

On the bright side, most of the teams that improved are out west, and Philly's improvement is balanced by the Magic going into the crapper. Sixers are going to be interesting to watch, but they won't be dangerous right away, I think.

King Tuts Tomb
08-10-2012, 03:21 AM
Thursday, August 9, 2012
D12 deal a head-scratcher for Magic
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com

That's it?Wait, let me rephrase that.THAT'S IT????!?!?!?!?!?!?John McEnroe-like wonder fills me at the reported Dwight Howard (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2384/dwight-howard) trade to the Lakers. You cannot be serious! I keep hoping in vain for David Stern to intervene and void the trade for basketball reasons. Or any other reason.This deal makes a mockery of the new collective bargaining agreement's alleged fairness to small markets; Orlando is selling one of the best players in the NBA for pennies on the dollar, while the rich only get richer. (But the tax-paying Lakers can't sign-and-trade Matt Barnes (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1765/matt-barnes) -- that'll show 'em!)Mark my words: When we have our next lockout in 2016, this trade will be one of the flash points. The Lakers have a $99 million payroll, and will go over the century mark if and when Devin Ebanks (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4256/devin-ebanks) and Barnes re-sign. For the small-market owners, all they can do is count the luxury tax dollars from L.A. and golf clap over their 53-win glass ceiling. That's better than losing money, but they're still hermetically sealed off from a taste of the championship unless they're either incredibly lucky or incredibly brilliant. (Schedule alert: The Lakers don't visit the House That Dwight Built And Promptly Vacated until March 12.)To review the known details for each team in this complex deal, which is pending a Friday morning trade call:• The Lakers give up Andrew Bynum (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2748/andrew-bynum) and a protected 2017 first-round pick, and receive Howard.• The Nuggets give up Arron Afflalo (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3187/arron-afflalo), Al Harrington (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/308/al-harrington) and a protected first-round pick, and receive Andre Iguodala (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2386/andre-iguodala).• The Sixers give up Iguodala, Nikola Vucevic (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6478/nikola-vucevic), Moe Harkless (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6591/moe-harkless) and a protected first-round pick that can be no earlier than 2015, and receive Bynum and Jason Richardson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1018/jason-richardson).• The Magic give up Howard, Richardson, and receive Afflalo, Harrington, Vucevic, Harkless and the three protected first-round picks mentioned above.Basically, I like this deal for the other three teams ... and hate it for Orlando. Let's break it down for each one:
Orlando Magichttp://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/lrg/trans/orl.gif

I don't feel totally comfortable ripping them because I don't know what competing offers they had, but I have a hard time believing they couldn't do better than this. Suddenly, overpaying Brook Lopez (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3448/brook-lopez) doesn't sound so bad.The Magic didn't generate that much salary-cap savings, but they didn't really need to. They'll have max cap room heading into the 2013 offseason, and they'll be even further under the cap if they cut partially guaranteed deals belonging to Harrington and Hedo Turkoglu (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/862/hedo-turkoglu).But let's put it this way: The two players they received as salary ballast wouldn't have been my first two choices from the three other rosters in this deal.Afflalo is a halfway decent scorer who decided he was "The Man" last season and stopped playing defense. He's a hard-working, quality player, but he's also owed $31 million over the next four years and he'll be 27 years old by the start of this coming season.Harrington had a nice 2011-12, too, but Denver was wise to sell high. He is a Fluke Rule player (i.e., his stats can be expected to regress sharply next season), has a bad knee and is 32 years old. Just what you need to rebuild.Together, Afflalo and Harrington make nearly as much as Howard, and I'd argue that their two contracts have negative value going forward (although the Magic could cut Harrington after the season and save half the money since his deal is only 50 percent guaranteed).Oh, the Magic got some other things out of it, but it's all flotsam. They received three first-round picks, but they won't get much immediate help from those -- Philly's pick won't arrive until 2015 at the earliest, and the pick from the Lakers won't be available until 2017.The Magic also get two recent draft picks in the deal, Harkless and Vucevic, so they'll argue that they got five first-round picks for Howard. But they'll likely end up being five low-value firsts at the back end of the draft. In fact, they're guaranteed to be bad, since our Marc Stein reports that all three future ones are lottery protected. Of the other two, Vucevic is a solid backup center but nothing special, and I thought Harkless was a reach as a first-rounder.Instead, the only lottery pick Orlando gets out of this is its own, after what figures to be a 19-win season in 2012-13 leaves the Magic with a top-five pick.The amazing part, however, is what Orlando didn't get out of this: No Bynum. No Pau Gasol (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/996/pau-gasol). Not even an Iguodala. I have a hard time believing Orlando couldn't stick the Lakers with Harrington and Magic forward Glen Davis (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3200/glen-davis) in return for Gasol, given that the Lakers had no other realistic means of acquiring Howard.It appears Orlando wants to rip its roster down to the studs and emulate the Oklahoma City model -- after all, new general manager Rob Hennigan came from the Thunder -- and perhaps the Magic can pull it off. Now all they have to do is select an all-time great and two other All-Stars in the next three drafts, and they'll be all set to emulate the Thunder.
Los Angeles Lakershttp://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/lrg/trans/lal.gif

This is going to be so funny next summer when Howard spurns the Lakers to sign with the Hawks.(Wakes up.)Holy hell, it's good to be the Lakers. After somehow parlaying a pile of backyard trash into Steve Nash (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/592/steve-nash), they now have converted the very good Andrew Bynum into the absolutely dominant Dwight Howard. As reported, they somehow didn't have to give up Gasol or even take back any bad contracts. But I'm sure they're crying a river over the 2017 first-round pick they had to give up. You'll excuse the Spurs and Thunder for feeling like they're playing a game that's rigged against them.It leaves the Lakers with a bit of a Miami in 2010-11 scenario, in which the pieces don't quite fit and they have to figure out how to make them mesh. As it was with Miami, having pieces such as these means it probably doesn't matter.Process this: Pau Gasol is the fourth option. The Lakers are running the pick-and-roll with Nash and Howard, Gasol lifting for the midrange J, and Kobe lurking on the weak side? Good luck defending that.There is some risk that Howard will leave after the season, but it was equally present with Bynum. The new CBA gives players incentive to test free agency, so flight risk is part of the equation going forward. But again, when you're the Lakers, flight risk is much less of a problem than it is for, oh, say, Orlando.
Philadelphia 76ershttp://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/lrg/trans/phi.gif

I've been harsh on Philly's front office, but this is a heck of a deal for the 76ers. Players such as Bynum aren't going to just show up in Philadelphia, but between having his Bird rights and his growing up in nearby central Jersey, he's about as minimal a flight risk as they could hope to get.Suddenly, the Sixers have a building block in the middle, and it didn't even cost them that much. Iguodala is a heck of a player and will be missed, but the other assets they relinquished were fungible. And even though Richardson is on a bad contract, he isn't exactly dead weight -- especially with a big man to draw double-teams.Of course, this makes the preceding events of the summer only look more foolish. Elton Brand (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/91/elton-brand) would have been great next to Bynum, there's no need for Kwame Brown (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/981/kwame-brown) to play a minute on this roster (not that there was before), and Nick Young (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3243/nick-young) and Dorell Wright (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2423/dorell-wright) are redundant next to Richardson. Philly still has some work to do to get its roster shipshape for opening day. (Also, Philly: Any time you want to sign a backup point guard, go right ahead. Really.)But as for this trade? There's no way Philly couldn't do this deal. When you're one of the Other 25 in the league, you have to take chances on elite players when they come. The Sixers are taking a calculated gamble, and it should pay off. Their worst-case scenario is they get one year of Bynum and drop Iguodala's contract, which isn't necessarily a bad thing on its own.
Denver Nuggetshttp://a.espncdn.com/i/teamlogos/nba/lrg/trans/den.gif

I love this deal for the Nuggets. Loveitloveitloveit. Iguodala is a hellacious wing stopper, the perfect complement for Danilo Gallinari (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3428/danilo-gallinari), and his transition play will only be more terrifying surrounded by all that speed in Denver. The Nuggets are selling high on two players (Afflalo and Harrington) who might have peaked last season (especially Harrington) and move themselves a bit closer to making their no-stars model a viable one for getting beyond the first round of the playoffs.The only little fly in the ointment is that they helped the Lakers get Howard. Um, that's gonna be a problem. But Denver got better, too, and did so while actually improving its cap position, since Iguodala has only two years left on his deal. The Nuggets wriggle out of about $23 million in future money, or $16 million if you subtract the nonguaranteed part of Harrington's deal, and put themselves in position to be a cap team in 2014 if this doesn't work.As an aside, it also appears the Nuggets have become masters of what we'll call the "delayed sign-and-trade." After mild overpays of both Nene (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1713/nene) and Afflalo last summer, done to keep each from departing without compensation, Denver quickly moved them along before the deals came back to bite it. The race between Wilson Chandler (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3194/wilson-chandler) and JaVale McGee (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3452/javale-mcgee) to be the next one should be entertaining.In the meantime, a Denver club that was 19th in defensive efficiency likely will make a sharp jump with Iggy in tow. And as a side benefit, the Nuggets create some space on a roster that was getting dangerously overcrowded.

ilive4sports
08-10-2012, 04:13 AM
And so are the Clippers.

Being in LA helps the Lakers. Being a well run organization from top to bottom is how they win titles.
Well the Clippers historically haven't put money into the team, while the Lakers will spend as much as they can.

Steagles
08-10-2012, 05:59 AM
I'm glad this bullcrap is finally over. I think Denver is the clear winner, however I'm stunned that LA was able to swindle Dwight without giving up Gasol.


Sent from #ColtsNation using Tapatalk

pacers74
08-10-2012, 06:22 AM
@WojYahooNBA: Final Nets offer Orlando rejected in July: Lopez, Humphries (1 year, $9.6M), Brooks, 4 unprotected No. 1's for Howard, JRich, Duhon, Clark.


Amazing.

After seeing this, I have no clue why Orlando would take this deal now. I guess if they had to do it over they would have done that trade with New Jersey. Orlando got screwed. I am surprised they let the first round picks be lotto protected. They could of had 3 starters in Brooks, Humphries, Lopez, and 4 uprotected picks. Wow, they really screwed up by passing on that.

Mourning
08-10-2012, 06:39 AM
For the ones saying: "who doesn't want to see the best players in the finals?": FINE, but why keep with the BS that small market teams actually have a decent chance to win? They only win if: they get incredibly lucky in the lottery and don't make one friggin' mistake building their team.

I hate the "LA is brilliant"-talk. Sure, they have a very good front office, but they also have: HUGE wallets, a good climate, a huge commercial market, every player wanting to be there, etc.

WHAT's the point in following a smallmarket team in a league like this? I like rooting for the underdog, but I also would LOVE to see us actually WIN it sometime before the year 2050 aswell and it doesn't appear our chances of that happenning are good. At all.

Steagles
08-10-2012, 06:47 AM
For the ones saying: "who doesn't want to see the best players in the finals?": FINE, but why keep with the BS that small market teams actually have a decent chance to win? They only win if: they get incredibly lucky in the lottery and don't make one friggin' mistake building their team.

I hate the "LA is brilliant"-talk. Sure, they have a very good front office, but they also have: HUGE wallets, a good climate, a huge commercial market, every player wanting to be there, etc.

WHAT's the point in following a smallmarket team in a league like this? I like rooting for the underdog, but I also would LOVE to see us actually WIN it sometime before the year 2050 aswell and it doesn't appear our chances of that happenning are good. At all.

According to the commercial of ESPN (or is it NBA?) the Bobkitties win the title. That's never happening.

idioteque
08-10-2012, 07:07 AM
What a travesty of a trade for the Magic. Yeah, they got picks but man they are really spread out, they don't get the final one (2017) until after the next Olympics. And the best talent they bring back in Arron Aflalo (who I like, but damn).

I am incredibly low on Iggy, have never been a huge proponent of his game, so naturally I am shocked that in this center scarce era they got the second best center in the NBA for maybe 10th or so best SG/SF.

ballism
08-10-2012, 07:37 AM
What a travesty of a trade for the Magic. Yeah, they got picks but man they are really spread out, they don't get the final one (2017) until after the next Olympics. And the best talent they bring back in Arron Aflalo (who I like, but damn).

I am incredibly low on Iggy, have never been a huge proponent of his game, so naturally I am shocked that in this center scarce era they got the second best center in the NBA for maybe 10th or so best SG/SF.

i like Iggy a bit more, and I think he'll be awesome in Denver and might even end up an All Star again one day (after all, if you are going to reward no-superstar teams with AS spots, Denver is next in line).
But indeed. Everyone is basically feasting on the Magic misery here. Lakers, Denver, 76ers. Everyone gets better.

this brings me back to school, political history, how Russia, Prussia and Austria were basically holding meetings once in a while over the XVIII century and claiming best lands of this huge Poland/Baltics state and splitting it among themselves. No meaningful resistance, no way out. That's Magic.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 07:42 AM
Lakers have to be the favorites now.

Denver make out like bandits if you ask me.

Magic are complete idiots. They got little to no value for Howard. Unbelievable. How do you not trade with Houston for young promising prospects. Affalo? Really? And all 3 draft picks will be late ones. The Magic GM should be fired immediately.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 07:45 AM
I will say that I wasn't thrilled about the Pacers offseason when I know they could have done better, but they at least made the bench better and I do recognize that.

Magic fans have to be *****ing rabid right now with anger. They didn't get squat for the best C in the NBA. A complete ***** up on the Magic GMs part and a complete travesty. Thank God I'm not a Magic fan. How will they even have fans after this debacle? lol

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 07:47 AM
Hollinger says it wasn't Hennigan's show, it was President Alex Martins. Martins has been in Orlando forever off an on, but he's absolutely not a basketball guy, he runs the business side, tickets, marketing, that stuff. So hey, good call Orlando.

And if anyone doesn't think Bynum won't stay in Philly you're wrong. He won't sign an extension because becoming a FA gets him more money, but Philly can still give the most. This is the guy that said "there's an ATM in every city" when he got asked about free agency. The guy allegedly had Cleveland on a list of FA destinations he'd like. He wants to get paid, that's it.

I really do feel pretty bad for Magic fans. I don't see how they could not just feel like a farm team, and then this is the package they get for Howard. They must HATE LA, I bet a lot of them are ready to just give up on the league. At least it's finally over I suppose.

xBulletproof
08-10-2012, 07:48 AM
Man, I want to go to a Magic forum and collect some quotes. Bet they're Pissed.

Hypnotiq
08-10-2012, 07:48 AM
That list was BS though Bynum's agent said it was

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 07:53 AM
Also, I still think Philly did quite well for themselves, but it's not like it was a straight Bynum for Iggy swap now that I actually think about it. Iggy + Harkless + Vucevic + 1st would be a pretty fair offer for Bynum had it just been Philly and the Lakers, just trade value wise anyway.

Oh yeah, so what the hell's Houston do now? That roster's still a mess and they struck out.

funnyguy1105
08-10-2012, 07:59 AM
My trade breakdown:

Philly = Fair
Nuggets = Bandits
Lakers = King Bandits
Magic = Fleeced

Cubs231721
08-10-2012, 08:06 AM
I'd normally agree with you in the 1:1 instances of before. But with Kobe taking up $30M alone next year, and the cap penalty being set at 2.5:1 for teams that go $10M-$15M over and then 3.25:1 for teams $15M+ over, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I think, and I'm sure most agree, that it means Gasol is gone before the 2013-2014 Season. If not, Kobe, Pau, and Nash alone are $58M. Howard would be roughly what? $15M? At least? That's a $48.75M penalty in itself right there, just for that year. Add on the $22.75M combined penalties for Steve Blake and Jordan Hill, and that's $71.5M in Penalties. PLUS, Artest has a Player Option worth $7.7M, so add an ADDITIONAL penalty of $25M for a total of $96.5 MILLION dollars in Salary Cap Penalties for 1 year of basketball.

And that's just 6-7 players. You still have to sign 6-7 more, and each one gets a 3.25x penalty.

This isn't quite right. There is a maximum penalty for every 5 million exceeded up to 20 million. So a team 20 million over the luxury tax will pay 45 million in tax. The Lakers will likely be a little over that though, and there is no maximum after that. So it really depends how much over that they end up being. If they end up 25 million over, they would pay 63.75 million in tax. If they end up 30 million over the luxury tax, they would pay 85 million total in tax. 35 million over would bring a bill of 108.75 million. Here's the park of Larry Coon's FAQ that shows that:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

Howard's salary though will be way more than 15 million. He will get 105 percent of his current salary with a max extension, and that means the first year of his new deal would be a little over 20 million (there are at least 3 different figures for his salary now, so it's hard to calculate exactly). A 5 year deal with the Lakers would be worth between 115 and 120 million dollars.

pathil275
08-10-2012, 08:06 AM
Obviously a good trade for the Lakers that immediately makes them the favourite to win the championship next year. But still, OKC, San Antonio and the Clippers remain tough hurdles to overcome in the West. Also, Kobe and Nash aren't getting any younger, so I don't see them as a long-term contender (especially given the fact that they don't own any 1st round picks over the next 4 or so years and are already up against the cap).

The East just got substantially weaker I think. The Magic shouldn't be a playoff team anymore while the Sixers traded their defensive anchor for a nice young center but it remains to be seen if they can extend him. I'd say thei compete for the 3rd best record in the East.

All in all a terrible trade for the Magic who are now in total rebuild mode and left without a suitable center. Good luck finding one through the draft or FA.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 08:09 AM
The East just got substantially weaker I think. The Magic shouldn't be a playoff team anymore while the Sixers traded their defensive anchor for a nice young center but it remains to be seen if they can extend him. I'd say thei compete for the 3rd best record in the East.

All in all a terrible trade for the Magic who are now in total rebuild mode and left without a suitable center. Good luck finding one through the draft or FA.
They got Gustavo Ayon for Ryan Anderson and Vucevic in this deal. Sure, neither's probably a starter on a playoff team, but they're both decent players.

When's the CBA up again? 7 year mutual opt out right? That's gonna be a LONG lockout.

pathil275
08-10-2012, 08:11 AM
Okay, you are right, but the rumored Brook Lopez is certainly a cut above those two. They could have done better.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 08:16 AM
clearly. if I'm a Magic fan I'm probably in revolt right now. Orlando just opened a brand new, massively public financed I believe, arena like a year ago too. What a disaster.

Rogco
08-10-2012, 08:21 AM
The NBA isn't losing fans after the recent so called "super team" trend. They're gaining them. In droves. You may not like it, but the public absolutely loves it. This won't hurt the NBA's reputation in any way, shape, or form.

Not sure if the above is true. Basically, NBA popularity has been a bit in the crapper since Jordan retired (and the 1998-1999 lockout and subsequent horrible labor negotiations by the idiotic Stern). The NBA finals viewing figures are still less now than 1982, which is to say, bad, and the NHL averages more people at a game than the NBA. (In fact NBA is now fifth in the USA behind the NFL, MLB, MLS and the NHL).

The NBA is losing money, has pretty poor attendance, a poor public image, is covered in controversy for poor refing favoring stars and large market teams, has lower TV viewing figures than it did when it was considered in the crapper 30 years ago, and an incompetent maniacal *** as an overseer. I don't think fans are returning in droves.

However, I still find myself addicted to the Pacers (however if the Pacers aren't playing, I don't watch it)

ballism
08-10-2012, 08:25 AM
Also, I still think Philly did quite well for themselves, but it's not like it was a straight Bynum for Iggy swap now that I actually think about it. Iggy + Harkless + Vucevic + 1st would be a pretty fair offer for Bynum had it just been Philly and the Lakers, just trade value wise anyway.

Oh yeah, so what the hell's Houston do now? That roster's still a mess and they struck out.
i don't know. I like Vucevic, but he still hasn't proven much, and he displayed quite a bit of softness too.
there are issues and risks with Bynum, but all of them are fairly reasonable.
so basically Iggy and 3 mid-late #1s. for a marginal superstar center coming off his best year who's also more than 3 years younger.

Cactus Jax
08-10-2012, 08:30 AM
I'm thinking March 12th, Lakers @ Magic is going to end up on TV somehow. Probably will end up being Orlando's last game on TV in quite a while.

November 16th doesn't look so good ESPN, Orlando @ Detroit. When's the earliest the TV people have had to scramble to cover games, luckily they planned pretty ok for this kind of scenario, Orlando wasn't on much.

Ransom
08-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Of course this won't hurt the NBA. People will watch, hoping they lose, just like the Heat. Lakers/Thunder will be huge. This is like pro wrestling when the heel stable of wrestlers gets a new bad guy to challenge the good guys. Thunder are the darlings of the West right now, having a Laker team comprised of Kobe, Artest, and two new superstars challenge them? The NBA should charge PPV costs for that.

And don't blame the NBA for this. The Lakers have certain factors in their favor, their location, their well earned reputation, but at this point I wish people could admit that they just know how to manage their team better than 99% of the rest of the league's owners and managers. Like the Colts, Steelers, and Patriots in the NFL.

Pacerized
08-10-2012, 09:06 AM
What a travesty of a trade for the Magic. Yeah, they got picks but man they are really spread out, they don't get the final one (2017) until after the next Olympics. And the best talent they bring back in Arron Aflalo (who I like, but damn).

I am incredibly low on Iggy, have never been a huge proponent of his game, so naturally I am shocked that in this center scarce era they got the second best center in the NBA for maybe 10th or so best SG/SF.


The Nuggets have slowly became my second favorite team (although a distant 2cd.) I do see Iggy as an immediate upgrade but either I see a lot more potential in Affalo then others on here or a lot less in Iggy. The Nuggets are very young and Affalo is still an improving talent in the league who should peak at the same time as the rest of their young core. Iggy has declined each of the past 4 years and I don't think he'll be the player Affalo will be in 2 years when the Nuggets might be at a point of competing. I certainly don't see this as a Nuggets win. It's a short term gain long term loss for them. It's the exact opposite of what they did in moving Nene.
As a closet fan, I hate this move for the Nuggets. I'll be very interested in how a few of my local friends who are big Nuggets fans will be taking this.

Unclebuck
08-10-2012, 09:08 AM
How much better is Howard than Bynum? Howard is much better defensively. offensively they are about equal, although Bynum is probably better. Lakers are a little better, but they still cannot guard the Thunder.

Kid Minneapolis
08-10-2012, 09:13 AM
Lakers --- another huge g-- d--- impossible trade that lands them a superstar, F them...
Sixers --- I'm sorry, but Bynum is one of the most immature guys in the league... he's going to implode without some big Kobe-like egos to keep him in check, he's a timebomb waiting to happen. I predict horrible attitude and a steady decline from him from this point forward...
Orlando --- they're probly just happy to be rid of Howard, got a lot towards their future.
Nuggets --- I like Iggy, he's the one true porn star of this entire orgy ('sides Howard)

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 09:16 AM
i don't know. I like Vucevic, but he still hasn't proven much, and he displayed quite a bit of softness too.
there are issues and risks with Bynum, but all of them are fairly reasonable.
so basically Iggy and 3 mid-late #1s. for a marginal superstar center coming off his best year who's also more than 3 years younger.
Meh, guess it depends on how you value the guys involved, I like Iggy a helluva lot, see Vucevic as an eventual upper tier backup 5 that can give quality minutes, and Harkless reminds me a bit of PG. I do think Philly would still win if it was Bynum for that package, but it's at least a fair offer.


The Nuggets have slowly became my second favorite team (although a distant 2cd.) I do see Iggy as an immediate upgrade but either I see a lot more potential in Affalo then others on here or a lot less in Iggy. The Nuggets are very young and Affalo is still an improving talent in the league who should peak at the same time as the rest of their young core. Iggy has declined each of the past 4 years and I don't think he'll be the player Affalo will be in 2 years when the Nuggets might be at a point of competing. I certainly don't see this as a Nuggets win. It's a short term gain long term loss for them. It's the exact opposite of what they did in moving Nene.
As a closet fan, I hate this move for the Nuggets. I'll be very interested in how a few of my local friends who are big Nuggets fans will be taking this.Afflalo'll be 27 by next season, not sure how much growing he has left to do.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 09:24 AM
Magic beat writer says "Duhon's definitely in the deal"

https://twitter.com/JoshuaBRobbins/status/233916075367088128

hoopburners
08-10-2012, 09:26 AM
Magic just sent another "best big man" to the Lakers!

OlBlu
08-10-2012, 09:26 AM
Lakers --- another huge g-- d--- impossible trade that lands them a superstar, F them...
Sixers --- I'm sorry, but Bynum is one of the most immature guys in the league... he's going to implode without some big Kobe-like egos to keep him in check, he's a timebomb waiting to happen. I predict horrible attitude and a steady decline from him from this point forward...
Orlando --- they're probly just happy to be rid of Howard, got a lot towards their future.
Nuggets --- I like Iggy, he's the one true porn star of this entire orgy ('sides Howard)

Bynum is going to thrive in Philly. He is the second best center in the League and the sixers just got a LOT better. In fact, they just passed the Pacers......:cool: ... .

BRushWithDeath
08-10-2012, 09:28 AM
Not sure if the above is true. Basically, NBA popularity has been a bit in the crapper since Jordan retired (and the 1998-1999 lockout and subsequent horrible labor negotiations by the idiotic Stern). The NBA finals viewing figures are still less now than 1982, which is to say, bad, and the NHL averages more people at a game than the NBA. (In fact NBA is now fifth in the USA behind the NFL, MLB, MLS and the NHL).

The NBA is losing money, has pretty poor attendance, a poor public image, is covered in controversy for poor refing favoring stars and large market teams, has lower TV viewing figures than it did when it was considered in the crapper 30 years ago, and an incompetent maniacal *** as an overseer. I don't think fans are returning in droves.

However, I still find myself addicted to the Pacers (however if the Pacers aren't playing, I don't watch it)

1st, and most importantly, the NBA is not losing money. Not at all. Not even close.

To your other points, the ratings are lowing than in 1982 because there are exponentially more options now. The fall of the NBA popularity post-Jordan was not because of the lockout. It was because it was post-Jordan. Fans love stars. Fans love star teams. That is why the NBA was so popular in the late 80's. It's not a coincedence that it happened to revolve around the Magic-era Lakers and Bird-era Celtics. Those were the very epitome of "super teams".

Saying the NBA is 5th in popularity is just blantantly false. The NHL is not more popular than the NBA. Their total attendance at games is very slightly higher (182 a game) simply because Canadians are crazy. Comparing the NBA's attendance to to outdoor sports is just misleading. Of course they have better attendance. Their stadiums dwarf a basketball arena. But the NBA is only behind the NFL in television viewers. Everybody recognizes the NFL is king in this country. But the NBA has passed the MLB for second. The NHL a is distant, distant 4th and the MLS is even further down the totem pole.

OlBlu
08-10-2012, 09:29 AM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8252042/sources-dwight-howard-los-angeles-lakers-four-team-deal-complete

Wanted to post because I didn't see it anywhere else. Bynum is a 76er now...

Thoughts on how it affects us?

We move down one more spot in the East.......:cool: ...

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 09:32 AM
I can see why Howard wasn't traded to the Nets. Lopez just isn't that good and is paid a lot. Humphries, while good, isn't an impact player and is paid a lot. So you'd have two above average guys getting paid quite a bit that would never take you anywhere.

Seriously, Houston was throwing just about their whole roster out there to get Howard. I just don't understand how that wasn't the trade. All I can think of is that the Magic owner has a boner for the Lakers, cause that trade made no sense for the Magic.

Ransom
08-10-2012, 09:33 AM
How much better is Howard than Bynum? Howard is much better defensively. offensively they are about equal, although Bynum is probably better. Lakers are a little better, but they still cannot guard the Thunder.
This is the one thing that that I wonder about. Though I think Howard will benefit playing with Gasol and Nash feeding him the ball and drawing defensive attention. Heck even Kobe may benefit him, he can get more offensive rebounds *rimshot*

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 09:35 AM
Magic just sent another "best big man" to the Lakers!

Well, the Magic didn't trade Shaq if that is what you are implying. I had to look that up too cause I thought that. He just signed with the Lakers. But not getting anything for Shaq was also stupid. Magic are just a horribly run team. All you had to do was get some decent players to surround Howard and they kept putting a pile of **** around him.

Cactus Jax
08-10-2012, 09:37 AM
How much better is Howard than Bynum? Howard is much better defensively. offensively they are about equal, although Bynum is probably better. Lakers are a little better, but they still cannot guard the Thunder.

Howard has dealt with an Allen Iverson or Lebron James (Cleveland) type scenario his whole career. He's taken very mediocre teams besides him, and brought them to the NBA Finals once, and ECF at least once as well. Bynum has had Kobe his whole career so it will be interesting how he does being the man now, almost assured it won't be as good as Dwight. Bynum might slightly be better offensively, but Howard is many times better the defensive player.

I agree they can't stop Westbrook and Durant still. It'll be fun to see Thunder/Lakers WCF or whenever they meet in playoffs (baring injuries of course). Clippers aren't ready to make that step yet, nor is Memphis or Denver, and the Spurs' door was just about shut by the Thunder last season.

1. Thunder
2. Lakers
3. Spurs
4. Clippers
5. Grizzlies
6. Nuggets
7. Jazz (crap, it starts getting really bad here)
8. Mavs, but I could see 4 other teams here; Minnesota, Portland, New Orleans (if rookies do really well), Golden State

Suns, Kings, Rockets would surprise me if in contention

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 09:37 AM
David Stern must have the biggest smile. Lakers are almost a shoe-in for the finals with Nash, Kobe, Paul and Howard. I know Paul, Nash and Kobe are older, but those guys know how to take care of themselves and are fierce competitors.

My only hope is OKC.

Lakers vs Pacers final again? ;)

Kid Minneapolis
08-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Bynum is going to thrive in Philly. He is the second best center in the League and the sixers just got a LOT better. In fact, they just passed the Pacers......:cool: ... .

Ya, we'll see about that. I disagree wholeheartedly that he's the 2nd best center. He may be the 2nd most gifted, but he's a headcase that won't reach his potential and now he won't have Kobe to check him:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIWSKssJP2E

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 09:46 AM
I love the "small market team" excuse, again is not the Lakers fault small teams don't have the cojones to make anything happen, Cleveland had a chance to get Bynum but they didn't want to give up a pick or Zeller for him, "poor small market team", the Pacers had a bunch of money to make s*** happen but decided to use all their money to sign their own players and "fix the bench", "poor small market team", Denver was smart and turned Affalo and Harrington into Iguadola, "they are just lucky".

I remember Steven A saying that "small market teams" love to use the "small market team" card so they don't have the pressure to do anything, reading this thread and previous ones tells me that many fans buy this BS.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 09:49 AM
By they way Perkins just became more valuable to OKC, he is one of the few guys in the league that are able to guard Howard one on one.

Kid Minneapolis
08-10-2012, 09:51 AM
We move down one more spot in the East.......:cool: ...

Not. They lost Iggy, and Hibbert matches up well with Bynum. Indy still 2nd best in the East.

ballism
08-10-2012, 09:57 AM
Seriously, Houston was throwing just about their whole roster out there to get Howard. I just don't understand how that wasn't the trade. All I can think of is that the Magic owner has a boner for the Lakers, cause that trade made no sense for the Magic.

maybe they weren't offering that much. i don't remember, was there any specific rumor of what Houston was offering?
considering the money they spent on Asik, it probably wasn't an all-in for Morey.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 10:17 AM
Not. They lost Iggy, and Hibbert matches up well with Bynum. Indy still 2nd best in the East.

Is OlBlu even a Pacers fan? Dude is ridiculous.

Pacers and Celts will be fighting for 2 and 3.

who do the 76ers have? Bynum is going to be a #1 option now? That is not smart. Turner certainly isn't a #1 option nor is Holiday. Nick Young, one of the most inneffecient scorers? Blah, that team just lost the guy that kept the glue together.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 10:21 AM
maybe they weren't offering that much. i don't remember, was there any specific rumor of what Houston was offering?
considering the money they spent on Asik, it probably wasn't an all-in for Morey.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8162534/houston-rockets-eyeing-dwight-howard-trade-orlando-magic-release-luis-scola

The article doesn't specifically say, other than Houston has dangled a potential lottery pick acquired for Lowry and some young players.

xBulletproof
08-10-2012, 10:28 AM
Is OlBlu even a Pacers fan? Dude is ridiculous.

Pacers and Celts will be fighting for 2 and 3.

who do the 76ers have? Bynum is going to be a #1 option now? That is not smart. Turner certainly isn't a #1 option nor is Holiday. Nick Young, one of the most inneffecient scorers? Blah, that team just lost the guy that kept the glue together.

The main thing I am picturing, is what does that team look like when Bynum misses 40 games? The Lakers had the talent to get to the playoffs without him, and hope he was healthy during that time.

In Philly? If he misses 40 games, I don't know how they can win 15 of them. Nobody on that team besides Bynum can score.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 10:37 AM
The main thing I am picturing, is what does that team look like when Bynum misses 40 games? The Lakers had the talent to get to the playoffs without him, and hope he was healthy during that time.

In Philly? If he misses 40 games, I don't know how they can win 15 of them. Nobody on that team besides Bynum can score.

Yeah that's my only issue with Bynum, I'm not sure how healthy he is going to be, he needs to get some type of lubricant in his knees every six months.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 10:40 AM
Yeah that's my only issue with Bynum, I'm not sure how healthy he is going to be, he needs to get some type of lubricant in his knees every six months.

Heh, lube.

PR07
08-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Did Orlando simply pass on Bynum because he wouldn't sign an extension with them?

Also, as said, I'm interested to see how Bynum fares when he sees a lot more defenses without Kobe and Gasol there to keep defenses honest. He has a chance to either sink or swim as the guy now.

Regarding the Lakers, no doubt they've improved, but I'd like to see them add an athletic 3 on that roster (in the Trevor Ariza mold) they once had. I just think that backcourt is aging, and they could use some athleticism on the wings where Artest and Jamison simply don't get it done at this point. You're going to need some if you want to hang with the Durants and LeBrons of the world.

BillS
08-10-2012, 10:42 AM
The Championship ratings have been going back up, but the regular season has been declining. Why? Because fans of small market teams no longer give a ****. A huge part of that is these players refusing to play for small market teams. I haven't noticed this problem in any other sport, at least not on anything close to the same scale.

Pacer ratings were up last year.


@WojYahooNBA: Final Nets offer Orlando rejected in July: Lopez, Humphries (1 year, $9.6M), Brooks, 4 unprotected No. 1's for Howard, JRich, Duhon, Clark.


Amazing.

Wow. They rejected that deal and people are saying the Pacers could have been a player?


Dear Kevin Pritchard,

You're supposed to be the trade master! You couldn't get us anything for Tyler Hansbrough or something?!

Sincerely,
btyler

You have to be kidding, right? You aren't possibly equating Tyler to Iggy in terms of trade value?


Bynum is going to thrive in Philly. He is the second best center in the League and the sixers just got a LOT better. In fact, they just passed the Pacers......:cool: ... .

Not sure I understand this. They got better in the middle and worse at the wing. How does that leapfrog them 3 places in the East?

Nuntius
08-10-2012, 10:45 AM
Joke of a trade for orlando.

Seriously. The Nets package was wayyyyyyyy better. The Nets offered 4 unprotected picks along with Lopez according to Lopez. And they opted for this? It doesn't make any sense.

Oh well. This move is not good for the NBA but at least it's good for us that Howard is headed to the West.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Not sure I understand this. They got better in the middle and worse at the wing. How does that leapfrog them 3 places in the East?

I expect Turner to replace Iguadola just fine, Philly is just missing a power forward, a healthy Bynum as the main weapon is going to average close to 25 ppg and 11rpg.

Pacergeek
08-10-2012, 10:48 AM
The corruption in the NBA is at an all time high. The rich keep getting richer, and the other owners seem to be fine with it. I don't understand how the other teams involved could be ok letting Dwight go to the Lakers.

Pacergeek
08-10-2012, 10:50 AM
I expect Turner to replace Iguadola just fine, Philly is just missing a power forward, a healthy Bynum as the main weapon is going to average close to 25 ppg and 11rpg.

Philly also has Thaddeus Young, who will do just fine starting. Jrue Holliday, Bynum, Turner, and Young are a solid top 4

Cactus Jax
08-10-2012, 10:52 AM
The corruption in the NBA is at an all time high. The rich keep getting richer, and the other owners seem to be fine with it. I don't understand how the other teams involved could be ok letting Dwight go to the Lakers.

Well, Philly feels they've gotten better, and Denver feels they've gotten better, it's just Orlando who seems clueless. The other owners can't do a damn thing.

Pacergeek
08-10-2012, 10:57 AM
Well, Philly feels they've gotten better, and Denver feels they've gotten better, it's just Orlando who seems clueless. The other owners can't do a damn thing.

I would agree that Denver and Philly have improved, but not enough to seriously contend for a championship. The Lakers are the only team out of the four that are now in a serious position to win another ring.

Ace E.Anderson
08-10-2012, 10:59 AM
Philly will be improved, but Idk if they're automatically better than the Pacers as the resident negative posters have already suggested.

1. Outside of Young, they lack consistent 3-pt shooters. When you're playing with a big like Bynum, teams are going to double-team him. You NEED 3pt shooters, and The 76ers dont have many. EDIT: They added Jason Richardson--very good 3pt shooter

2. Is Bynum going to stay healthy now that he's the number one option, every night?
3. Is Bynum's immaturity going to allow him to be an EFFECTIVE number one option, night in and night out.
4. How well will Bynum (somewhat immature) and coach Collins (known for being a hard-a**) mesh
5. If Thaddeaus Young starts at the 4, who's coming off their bench?
6. Who's their consistent scoring from the wing coming from? Holliday, Turner and Nick Young are all pretty inconsistent.

A lot of ? marks for a team. All in all, I do think they're a bit improved, but are still one player away from comfortably being a top 3 team in the East.

xBulletproof
08-10-2012, 11:06 AM
I expect Turner to replace Iguadola just fine, Philly is just missing a power forward, a healthy Bynum as the main weapon is going to average close to 25 ppg and 11rpg.

I think Turners stays. Dorell Wright probably replaces Iggy. Not sure about his ability to score when you're not running your team like you're in a track meet though.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 11:10 AM
I expect Bynum to be named the best center in the NBA next year, Howard in LA is not going to average as many points as he was before, Philly's FO is going to look amazing for turning Iguadola into the NBA best center.

Banta
08-10-2012, 11:11 AM
The corruption in the NBA is at an all time high. The rich keep getting richer, and the other owners seem to be fine with it. I don't understand how the other teams involved could be ok letting Dwight go to the Lakers.

The NBA needs to just contract down to 20 teams and let all those teams be really strong all the way down the roster. At least it'd be a quality product to watch on the floor.

How can the NBA be the only pro BBall league around? There's no parity and the officiating is absurdly inconsistent and unpredictable.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 11:13 AM
The corruption in the NBA is at an all time high. The rich keep getting richer, and the other owners seem to be fine with it. I don't understand how the other teams involved could be ok letting Dwight go to the Lakers.

The more luxury tax money the Lakers pay the more money those teams under the cap make, some teams are just happy to get that big pay check every year.

PacersHomer
08-10-2012, 11:26 AM
The lockout in a few years is going to be very long.

ballism
08-10-2012, 11:31 AM
Philly will be improved, but Idk if they're automatically better than the Pacers as the resident negative posters have already suggested.

1. Outside of Young, they lack consistent 3-pt shooters. When you're playing with a big like Bynum, teams are going to double-team him. You NEED 3pt shooters, and The 76ers dont have many. EDIT: They added Jason Richardson--very good 3pt shooter

2. Is Bynum going to stay healthy now that he's the number one option, every night?
3. Is Bynum's immaturity going to allow him to be an EFFECTIVE number one option, night in and night out.
4. How well will Bynum (somewhat immature) and coach Collins (known for being a hard-a**) mesh
5. If Thaddeaus Young starts at the 4, who's coming off their bench?
6. Who's their consistent scoring from the wing coming from? Holliday, Turner and Nick Young are all pretty inconsistent.

A lot of ? marks for a team. All in all, I do think they're a bit improved, but are still one player away from comfortably being a top 3 team in the East.

And Dorell Wright can shoot. That problem should be solved now.

But indeed. They lost so many key players from last year. Not just this trade, earlier this summer too. A lot of their identity and chemistry will be gone. They are basically starting anew. No experienced backup PF. They will be spending 26 mil on Bynum, Hawes and Kwame this year, and probably over 30 mil next year.
It's messy.
They got younger and they have potentially much higher ceiling now.
But I won't be surprised if they are the same as last year short term, maybe even a bit worse.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 11:38 AM
Damn I forgot Philly got Jason Richardson, not a bad replacement for Iguadola if you ask me, he is actually a better scorer.


Edit: Ok so Philly's starting team is going to be Holiday, Turner, Wright, Young, Bynum? they are going to have Hawes and Jrich coming off the bench no bad.

shags
08-10-2012, 11:42 AM
Well, the new CBA made the following transaction restrictions on teams $4 million over the luxury tax.

1. Smaller MLE
2. Less flexibility for trades
3. No sign and trades (starting next season)

Those are the reasons, and not the more punitive luxury tax, that Mark Cuban opted for cap space last season, and basically decided to not defend the title seriously last season.

PaceBalls
08-10-2012, 11:55 AM
The corruption in the NBA is at an all time high. The rich keep getting richer, and the other owners seem to be fine with it. I don't understand how the other teams involved could be ok letting Dwight go to the Lakers.

It might be unfair to small market teams, but it isn't corruption... look to the NCAA for that.

Kid Minneapolis
08-10-2012, 12:01 PM
Damn I forgot Philly got Jason Richardson, not a bad replacement for Iguadola if you ask me, he is actually a better scorer.


Edit: Ok so Philly's starting team is going to be Holiday, Turner, Wright, Young, Bynum? they are going to have Hawes and Jrich coming off the bench no bad.

That line-up isn't doing much for me, really.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 12:16 PM
And Brooks is now going to have an excuse to play Perkins even more, nice............. :puke:

Sollozzo
08-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Damn I forgot Philly got Jason Richardson, not a bad replacement for Iguadola if you ask me, he is actually a better scorer.


Edit: Ok so Philly's starting team is going to be Holiday, Turner, Wright, Young, Bynum? they are going to have Hawes and Jrich coming off the bench no bad.


Yeah, great improvements to a team that took Boston to 7 last year and was already pretty solid.

Blackhawk4
08-10-2012, 12:23 PM
How much better is Howard than Bynum? Howard is much better defensively. offensively they are about equal, although Bynum is probably better. Lakers are a little better, but they still cannot guard the Thunder.

You're never going to stop superstars no matter who you have. They will never shut down the thunder, but they can slow them down even more now. The Lakers potentially can be much better offensively when you think about it. Who would you rather have if you're Nash running the PnR? Bynum may not be the fastest center in the league and could still run the PnR with Nash, but Howard would be a much better PnR player. Bynum will always be a better offensive player as a whole when compared to Howard, but he necessarily wouldn't be the better fit with Nash. Defensively they should be alot better (They were already a good defensive team statistically speaking last year).

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 12:26 PM
no one can really think Jason Richardson is a viable Iguodala replacement right?

Smits Happens
08-10-2012, 12:29 PM
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick
Sources say Orlando also gets Lakers forward Josh McRoberts in the Dwight Howard deal.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 12:31 PM
no one can really think Jason Richardson is a viable Iguodala replacement right?

Jrich is a better offensive player and that is what Philly needs, Iguadola is the better player for sure but Philly has few players that duplicate what he does, getting Bynum+Jrich for Iguadola and some young players is not a bad deal.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 12:32 PM
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick
Sources say Orlando also gets Lakers forward Josh McRoberts in the Dwight Howard deal.
Nevermind whatever else I said in this thread, Magic win the trade.

vnzla81
08-10-2012, 12:32 PM
Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick
Sources say Orlando also gets Lakers forward Josh McRoberts in the Dwight Howard deal.

Now we know why Orlando pulled the trigger, they just wanted a piece of "the next Lamar Odom" :lol:

pacergod2
08-10-2012, 12:33 PM
Let me be the one that speaks to some rationailty of what the Magic did:

First of all, they got Arron Afflalo, whose game I absolutely love. Terrific young two-way player who is an above average defender and can score not only in the mid range, but can take it to the hole and shoot from deep. Plus, he is a mature kid, who is exactly the type of person you want to build around if you are a young Orlando team. He's locked up for four years, so there is stability in getting this kid in return while the team takes a couple of years to rebuild. (Think Danny Granger).

Secondly, Nikola Vucevic is a highly touted big, who will get serious minutes in Orlando if they are smart. He is well rounded for a developmental center, which makes me think he is going to be good. He is strong, has good touch, rebounds well and seems to be fairly athletic given his frame. He needs to get minutes in Orlando for him to become a good rotational big, which he definitely has the potential for.

Moe Harkless is a super athletic SF. Very good defender. I am surprised that Philly gave him up while trading away Iggy, because I figured him to be the heir apparent. Now I wonder where Philly's wing defense is going to come from. Won't be Turner, N. Young, or Morrow. JRich is not nearly the defender he once was. Harkless is a big upside guy. He is a nice addition by the Magic.

As to the three first round draft picks, I love that they got the Lakers 2017 pick. Kobe, Nash, and Pau should be retired by then or at least close and then the Lakers first round pick will be much better than it figures to be the next three years. They won't get out of LT hell anytime soon either so I don't see them improving much, just getting older.The Philly pick is protected, which I don't really care for, but I don't know what the protection is so it is tough to know when the pick will be conveyed. The Denver pick will be a mid first rounder in 2014 whether it is the Knicks or the Nuggets, the Magic get the better pick of the two.

As for taking on Al Harrington, his deal is 50% guaranteed after this year. That to me, says that they will buy him out after this season. He is guaranteed 6.7M, 3.6M, and 3.8M over the next three. I bet they play him this year and use him as trade bait at the deadline or just buy him out afterwards. They could easily get their cap hit down to right about 2.2M and 2.3M the last two years at a buyout of exactly what the veterans minimums will be and might be able to get out of paying him more than that even. So they basically got out of paying for the final year of Jason Richardson's deal.

I am really surprised that they would give up Earl Clark in this deal. And I'm also surprised to see that they didn't trade Hedo somehow. But I guess you have to be happy with getting a surefire starter for the next four years, two prospects with a lot of upside, three first round draft picks, two early seconds, and a bunch of extra cap space. That's a pretty nice haul in terms of value to the direction of this team. It's surely not a straight up talent swap, because you never get talent value straight up for talent in this league.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
08-10-2012, 12:52 PM
Not too surprised/angry with this trade. Orlando got screwed but its their own fault for waiting so long. They severely limited their potential trade partners, no one was going to give up good players/draft picks for Howard with 1 year left on his contract and a guarantee he would leave to go to NJ/Dallas. Really they should have traded Howard a year or two ago.

But I have to say, with every trade/FA signing like this, contraction starts to make more and more sense. If the ratings flourish when teams get stacked, why not stack every team a little more by contracting?

CableKC
08-10-2012, 01:00 PM
I joined late......is there any mention of Dwight re-signing / extending his contract in LaLaLand?

or

Is this a potential rental for the Lakers?

wintermute
08-10-2012, 01:07 PM
The lockout in a few years is going to be very long.

This isn't really a cap issue though. Howard makes $19m while Bynum makes $16.5m. With McBob also going out for the Lakers, Lakers are actually close to salary neutral on this deal.

The transaction to be upset about is the Steve Nash S&T that added a ton of money to an already bloated Laker roster.


Well, the new CBA made the following transaction restrictions on teams $4 million over the luxury tax.

1. Smaller MLE
2. Less flexibility for trades
3. No sign and trades (starting next season)

Those are the reasons, and not the more punitive luxury tax, that Mark Cuban opted for cap space last season, and basically decided to not defend the title seriously last season.

Yup. And note that the third provision would have prevented the Nash to Lakers deal had it been in place this year. It's an important new provision, and Cuban is right to wonder how it would handcuff the big spending teams (Lakers, Knicks, and now the Nets) in the future. Of course they could still trade for disgruntled superstars, but I really don't see how you can put in rules to prevent that.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 01:08 PM
Not too surprised/angry with this trade. Orlando got screwed but its their own fault for waiting so long. They severely limited their potential trade partners, no one was going to give up good players/draft picks for Howard with 1 year left on his contract and a guarantee he would leave to go to NJ/Dallas. Really they should have traded Howard a year or two ago.

But I have to say, with every trade/FA signing like this, contraction starts to make more and more sense. If the ratings flourish when teams get stacked, why not stack every team a little more by contracting?

That's what I'm saying. Magic must have the most indecisive owner. And a horrible owner who can't hire a good GM. Just feel so bad for fans of the Magic.

Sparhawk
08-10-2012, 01:10 PM
The Pacers now just need to trade a future 1st and 2nd for either Terrance Jones/Royce White.

Or sign Andray Blatche.

And I do know NONE of those scenarios will happen.

PacersHomer
08-10-2012, 01:37 PM
The only way this can stop is if the NBA goes for an NFL-style hard cap which will sadly probably never happen.

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 01:47 PM
The only way this can stop is if the NBA goes for an NFL-style hard cap which will sadly probably never happen.

Eliminate max contracts. A bunch of these guy wanna team up, go ahead. But they'd have to turn down a LOT of money. More feasible than a hard cap. A "max contract" in a league with a soft cap is just counterproductive.

Rogco
08-10-2012, 02:09 PM
1st, and most importantly, the NBA is not losing money. Not at all. Not even close.

To your other points, the ratings are lowing than in 1982 because there are exponentially more options now. The fall of the NBA popularity post-Jordan was not because of the lockout. It was because it was post-Jordan. Fans love stars. Fans love star teams. That is why the NBA was so popular in the late 80's. It's not a coincedence that it happened to revolve around the Magic-era Lakers and Bird-era Celtics. Those were the very epitome of "super teams".

Saying the NBA is 5th in popularity is just blantantly false. The NHL is not more popular than the NBA. Their total attendance at games is very slightly higher (182 a game) simply because Canadians are crazy. Comparing the NBA's attendance to to outdoor sports is just misleading. Of course they have better attendance. Their stadiums dwarf a basketball arena. But the NBA is only behind the NFL in television viewers. Everybody recognizes the NFL is king in this country. But the NBA has passed the MLB for second. The NHL a is distant, distant 4th and the MLS is even further down the totem pole.

First and foremost, the NBA is losing money. At least that's what it keeps saying:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2012-02-26/adam-silver-says-despite-new-labor-deal-nba-still-losing-money

You can look it up elsewhere if you like. The second point, ratings are lower cause there are more options is crap (though still proves my point that it's not hugely popular). There are more options for the NFL too, but it's not having any problems with decreased viewing numbers. Never said the NBA was fifth most popular, I said it had the fifth highest attendance at games (professional only, doesn't include college football). And I agree, fans like stars, but they also like a good product. The league right now is star-studded, but the viewing figures can't even compete with a completely non star-studded 1982. Also, while Jordan was a huge reason the popularity declined, it would be insane to ignore the effect that the lockout had (remember they didn't start playing till February). And Jordan came back for a couple more years without a huge surge in Jordan popularity (and league numbers were still better in 1994 when Jordan "retired" than anytime since 1998)

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 02:12 PM
Honestly, I sort of which I were just a general NBA fan, no specific team. Obviously sucks that the Pacers aren't one of them but the top tier of teams for these next few years is a period of basketball that'll probably be remembered for a long time.

And if you're still a little skeptical and won't believe it til you see it;

https://p.twimg.com/Az9PIK-CcAAo-Kw.png

sportfireman
08-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Nevermind whatever else I said in this thread, Magic win the trade.
:laugh:

Unclebuck
08-10-2012, 03:56 PM
Eliminate max contracts. A bunch of these guy wanna team up, go ahead. But they'd have to turn down a LOT of money. More feasible than a hard cap. A "max contract" in a league with a soft cap is just counterproductive.

So you want them to be able to sign for whatever amount of money they want and that they can get a team to pay? I really don't think that is the answer.

Unclebuck
08-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Not sure if the above is true. Basically, NBA popularity has been a bit in the crapper since Jordan retired (and the 1998-1999 lockout and subsequent horrible labor negotiations by the idiotic Stern). The NBA finals viewing figures are still less now than 1982, which is to say, bad, and the NHL averages more people at a game than the NBA. (In fact NBA is now fifth in the USA behind the NFL, MLB, MLS and the NHL).

The NBA is losing money, has pretty poor attendance, a poor public image, is covered in controversy for poor refing favoring stars and large market teams, has lower TV viewing figures than it did when it was considered in the crapper 30 years ago, and an incompetent maniacal *** as an overseer. I don't think fans are returning in droves.

However, I still find myself addicted to the Pacers (however if the Pacers aren't playing, I don't watch it)

Everything you post here is false. They aren't losing money, ratings are much higher than in 1982 (although we need to come to a basis by which to judge that) attendance is not poor at all.

You are just wrong across the board. Not sure it is really worth going into all this, but if you want to I will.

don't have time right now.

But you do realize the NBA finals were on tape delay (except for Sunday afternoon games up until 1982. In fact the last tape delay game was a 1986 western conference finals between the lakers and Rockets - 2 hour tape delay.

during the 1983 regular season CBS televised 4 game. Yes four games the entire season. No, that is not a misprint - 4 games.

Are you are suggesting that 1982 and 1983 were the glory days? the league was this close to folding altogether.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_CBS

Heisenberg
08-10-2012, 04:13 PM
So you want them to be able to sign for whatever amount of money they want and that they can get a team to pay? I really don't think that is the answer.Yes. There's still a cap, even if it is soft. If a guy can make a max of 18 mil a year compared to 30 then he has to make a much tougher decision.

And the guys that'd be able to make that much would be getting a lot more fairly compensated as well.

Rogco
08-10-2012, 04:21 PM
Everything you post here is false. They aren't losing money, ratings are much higher than in 1982 (although we need to come to a basis by which to judge that) attendance is not poor at all.

You are just wrong across the board. Not sure it is really worth going into all this, but if you want to I will.

don't have time right now.

But you do realize the NBA finals were on tape delay (except for Sunday afternoon games up until 1982. In fact the last tape delay game was a 1986 western conference finals between the lakers and Rockets - 2 hour tape delay.

during the 1983 regular season CBS televised 4 game. Yes four games the entire season. No, that is not a misprint - 4 games.

Are you are suggesting that 1982 and 1983 were the glory days? the league was this close to folding altogether.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_on_CBS

Ok, we had this debate before. The ratings are nielson ratings for the finals. They are what they are, take them or leave them. As for the NBA losing money, that's straight from the NBA's mouth from 2012, see my post below and do some research. I'm also pretty sure that there were very few nationally televised games this year. As in 1983, they were mainly on cable channels. And plenty of the NBA playoff games weren't even available on TV to watch without some sort of extended sports package, which seems worse to me than a tape delay. The same mediums that make more games available are the same mediums that allow for more options. So while those of us who want to watch games have an easier time of it, less people are watching the games.

Oh, and the popularity has basically been in the crapper since 1998. So I'm confused what part of the above was false.

aamcguy
08-10-2012, 04:23 PM
Eliminate max contracts. A bunch of these guy wanna team up, go ahead. But they'd have to turn down a LOT of money. More feasible than a hard cap. A "max contract" in a league with a soft cap is just counterproductive.

LOVE this. I want to thank this post 50 times. "Winning a championship is the ultimate goal" is fine, but I doubt LeBron turns down 30 million a year with Cleveland to take his talents to South Beach, for example.

Blackhawk4
08-10-2012, 04:24 PM
I joined late......is there any mention of Dwight re-signing / extending his contract in LaLaLand?

or

Is this a potential rental for the Lakers?
He's going to play the season out and "explore his options" but the Lakers can give him the most $$$$ out of any team.

Rogco
08-10-2012, 04:30 PM
Just one last link since people don't seem to believe the NBA is losing money:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-13/NBA-on-track-to-make-profit/54267428/1

But they might make a profit next year!!!

CableKC
08-10-2012, 04:32 PM
He's going to play the season out and "explore his options" but the Lakers can give him the most $$$$ out of any team.
I guess its not that bad....Bynum was going to be a UFA anyway...so if you had to offer a huge contract to Dwight or Bynum...I'd take Dwight.

Does anyone know if the Nets are able to make a UFA MAX level offer to Dwight?

My thought is that they can't. I guess the Rockets reload and try to offer a MAX offer to him next season?

Dwight would be stupid to not want to stay in LaLaLand for at least 3 more seasons with Nash/Kobe/Gasol

shags
08-10-2012, 04:44 PM
The Lakers are spending more money now too. They just signed Jodie Meeks, a sorely needed shooter off the bench.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow/la-jodie-meeks-accepts-twoyear-deal-with-lakers-20120810,0,2545205.story?track=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=53297

Cubs231721
08-10-2012, 04:55 PM
I guess its not that bad....Bynum was going to be a UFA anyway...so if you had to offer a huge contract to Dwight or Bynum...I'd take Dwight.

Does anyone know if the Nets are able to make a UFA MAX level offer to Dwight?

My thought is that they can't. I guess the Rockets reload and try to offer a MAX offer to him next season?

Dwight would be stupid to not want to stay in LaLaLand for at least 3 more seasons with Nash/Kobe/Gasol

At their current salaries, the Nets can only offer Dwight the mini MLE and will be prohibited from signing and trading for him. They're pretty deep into the luxury tax themselves.

The Rockets could try that plan, but it would be unlikely for Dwight to be interested. He'd have to take less money to go to a worse team that he wasn't interested in going to in the first place. LA will easily be the best team who can sign him, and they'll also be able to offer the most money. Unless there is a huge fallout there, I don't see Dwight bolting.

hoosierguy
08-10-2012, 07:25 PM
Give me a break with this whole "the NBA is rigged" nonsense. It isn't and never has been. The big glamorous cities are attractive destinations for free agents which means that smaller markets need to draft well and develop players to be competitive- see Oklahoma City and San Antonio. And being in a big city doesn't guarantee success, it requires a good front office as well. The Knicks are a great example of this.

BlueNGold
08-10-2012, 08:13 PM
Give me a break with this whole "the NBA is rigged" nonsense. It isn't and never has been. The big glamorous cities are attractive destinations for free agents which means that smaller markets need to draft well and develop players to be competitive- see Oklahoma City and San Antonio. And being in a big city doesn't guarantee success, it requires a good front office as well. The Knicks are a great example of this.

The Lakers could have Mickey Mouse running their front office, and they would still draw great players. The destination and to some degree the history of the Lakers means everything.

BTW, I am happy the Lakers have Dwight now. Less chance for a LeWade repeat.

Pacerized
08-10-2012, 09:15 PM
At their current salaries, the Nets can only offer Dwight the mini MLE and will be prohibited from signing and trading for him. They're pretty deep into the luxury tax themselves.

The Rockets could try that plan, but it would be unlikely for Dwight to be interested. He'd have to take less money to go to a worse team that he wasn't interested in going to in the first place. LA will easily be the best team who can sign him, and they'll also be able to offer the most money. Unless there is a huge fallout there, I don't see Dwight bolting.

I'd say that Dallas is a serious threat to L.A. I agree that he'll likely stay in L.A. but it would be great to see L.A. lose a star for just once.

cdash
08-10-2012, 09:38 PM
The NBA is going to be so pissed off when the 2013 Finals are Oklahoma City vs. Indiana.

d_c
08-10-2012, 09:40 PM
The Lakers could have Mickey Mouse running their front office, and they would still draw great players. The destination and to some degree the history of the Lakers means everything.

BTW, I am happy the Lakers have Dwight now. Less chance for a LeWade repeat.

LA was never Dwight's first choice. It was Brooklyn. In the end, he just wanted out a of an incompetently run franchise. If you want anymore evidence of how badly the Magic are run, just take a look at what they got in return for one of the games best players.

I think OKC is still the favorite to come out of the west. Perkins (on the defensive end) is one of the league's better Dwight neutralizers. 39 year old Nash vs. Westbrook is ugly and Kobe is going to be an "old" 34 when the season starts.

Lakers now have a big advantage at the Heat's weakest points, but it may not matter for Lebron b/c Durant and co. will probably beat the Lakers for them (again).

J7F
08-10-2012, 09:57 PM
Give me a break with this whole "the NBA is rigged" nonsense. It isn't and never has been. The big glamorous cities are attractive destinations for free agents which means that smaller markets need to draft well and develop players to be competitive- see Oklahoma City and San Antonio. And being in a big city doesn't guarantee success, it requires a good front office as well. The Knicks are a great example of this.

I'm not necessarily advocating that the NBA is rigged but...

The trades that brought in Dwight, Pau, and Nash were all lopsided talent for talent at the time of the trade...

beast23
08-10-2012, 10:00 PM
So you want them to be able to sign for whatever amount of money they want and that they can get a team to pay? I really don't think that is the answer.

I've been of the opinion that there is only one solution. Do NOT limit max player salaries, but provide some form of contract benefits (duration and?) to continue encouraging players to re-sign with their present teams and most importantly, have a modest to moderate HARD cap. Unless some of these superstars are willing to take about half of the max they could earn elsewhere, this would prevent them from stacking up on a single team.

But allowing high individual salaries with a hard cap for all teams is the key.

xBulletproof
08-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Eliminating max players will just cause there to be no mid level paid players. You'd have stars taking up all the money teams can pay and a bunch of guys getting paid the minimum. So then teams like the Lakers would get all of the secondary players when all the offers are in the same vicinity.

I fail to see how that would help, really.

spreedom
08-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Just one last link since people don't seem to believe the NBA is losing money:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-13/NBA-on-track-to-make-profit/54267428/1

But they might make a profit next year!!!


You do realize that their "lost money" is actually just numbers quoted from a tax technicality that was passed into law that provides breaks to sports franchise owners? Not one single NBA owner has actually demonstrated that they operated at a loss last year or the year before that. The key is that the NBA players are all considered depreciating assets.

Romsey31
08-10-2012, 11:23 PM
I still can't believe that Philly got the second best center in the NBA for Iguadola, damn.

and jrich

Mad-Mad-Mario
08-11-2012, 01:04 AM
The NBA will never regain the dominance it once had until a commissioner is willing to step up and quit letting big market teams who can afford it(and already have the added bonus of being where players want to play) just sign players and or trade for players with little to no thought to the cap.

Players demanding trades and having all the leverage in the world isn't helping.

But the current system is set up so that unless a team gets a miraculous steal or two in the draft or embraces a philosophy other people are ignoring(The Spurs with foreign players, other teams used a few of them. The spurs built a team thinking of the game globally while other teams underrated foreign born players)

Now we are basically faced with a system where once every 10 years or so somebody squeaks in and wins a championship out of luck. But for the most part its, big cities that can attract the stars that have been winning them.

Where as in the 70s, I think there were 8 different teams that won titles.

The simple fact of the matter is that every year 22-26 fanbases who look objectively at the NBA see that their team has 0 chance of winning. And for the most part those teams don't even appear ready to make the moves necessary to compete.

Look at us for example. We are without a doubt, one of the better teams in the league I think everybody would agree top 10 and even we have almost no shot of winning the NBA title next year. Even if Roy, George, Hill, Green and Augustin all continue to develop and even 2 or 3 has a breakout year. We are still a longshot.

And knowing that fact, why would I watch Pacer game when there is an IU game on that same night?

The NBA got out attended by MLS last year, because 20+ fanbases knew they didn't have a shot. So why spend 100+ dollars on a family outing when you can catch a soccer game for half that. And until the NBA spreads the love around a bit, the NBA will never be dominant again.

I think the #1 thing the NBA needs to do is to eliminate sign and trades to teams over the cap. If the trade puts you over the cap, you can't do it.

MyFavMartin
08-11-2012, 01:22 AM
Lakers salary total: 97.9 million.

NBA needs a hard cap.

vnzla81
08-11-2012, 01:46 AM
Lakers salary total: 97.9 million.

NBA needs a hard cap.

The poor "small market teams" don't want a hard cap, they love that the lakers are giving them money, a hard cap wouldn't give money to those that are under the luxury tax because everybody would be under.

Sandman21
08-11-2012, 01:47 AM
I think the #1 thing the NBA needs to do is to eliminate sign and trades to teams over the cap. If the trade puts you over the cap, you can't do it.
Starts next summer.

imbtyler
08-11-2012, 01:54 AM
You have to be kidding, right? You aren't possibly equating Tyler to Iggy in terms of trade value?

Hell naw. But depending on the "why" Earl Clark was picked up, I was thinking something around the lines of Tyler for Clark.

Cactus Jax
08-11-2012, 02:34 AM
Where as in the 70s, I think there were 8 different teams that won titles.

Yeah and the NBA was so successful in the 70's....

Constellations
08-11-2012, 02:39 AM
McRoberts in Orlando... son of a mother!

Hypnotiq
08-11-2012, 04:08 AM
McRoberts in Orlando... son of a mother!

They scared now !!!

wintermute
08-11-2012, 07:30 AM
I've figured out Orlando's super secret master plan. They saw how good the Pacers were with a mostly non-lotto team, and decided to emulate us.

Pacers' 2011-12 by draft position:
George (10)
Hansbrough (13)
Granger (17)
Hibbert (17)
West (18)
Jones (20)
Collison (21)
Hill (26)
Barbosa (28)
Pendergraph (31)
Fesenko (38)
Stephenson (40)
Price (52)
Amundson (undrafted)

Orlando's 2012-13 roster (as of now):
Redick (11)
Harkless (15)
Turkoglu (16)
Vucevic (16)
Richardson (18)
Nicholson (19)
Nelson (20)
Harrington (25)
Afflalo (27)
Eyenga (30)
Harper (32)
Davis (35)
McRoberts (37)
O'Quinn (49)
Ayon (undrafted)

That's one less lotto pick than the Pacers last year! And just to be sure that they don't cheat the process, the Magic made sure that all the picks they're getting back in the trade are guaranteed to be non-lotto. You have to admire such a single-minded devotion to a vision of team-building ;)

Alas, the Pacers themselves don't follow the non-lotto philosophy faithfully. We added another lotto pick this year (Augustin, drafted #9), giving us 50% more lotto picks than last year. We're doomed I tell you :-p

beast23
08-11-2012, 08:26 AM
The poor "small market teams" don't want a hard cap, they love that the lakers are giving them money, a hard cap wouldn't give money to those that are under the luxury tax because everybody would be under.

That's simply not the case. Nearly all small market teams wanted a hard cap, along with some form of revenue sharing to offset the losses from the luxury taxes that would no longer be funneled to them.

Hoop
08-11-2012, 09:45 AM
The poor "small market teams" don't want a hard cap, they love that the lakers are giving them money, a hard cap wouldn't give money to those that are under the luxury tax because everybody would be under.
You are wrong. Bird certainly wanted a hard cap very badly, heard it out of his mouth in person.

vnzla81
08-11-2012, 10:08 AM
You are wrong. Bird certainly wanted a hard cap very badly, heard it out of his mouth in person.

... and Bird is not an owner.

Downtown Bang!
08-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Lakers salary total: 97.9 million.

NBA needs a hard cap.

What is the luxary tax hit on that amount going to be?

In the next 2-3 years is there is going to be some regret from several owners in regards to luxary tax dollars spent vs. the actual return on investment.

BlueNGold
08-11-2012, 10:20 AM
I'm not necessarily advocating that the NBA is rigged but...

The trades that brought in Dwight, Pau, and Nash were all lopsided talent for talent at the time of the trade...

Yes, that is an undeniable fact. Each were all-star players who came to the Lakers for chump change. I guess Bynum was an asset, but Dwight > Bynum. Dwight and Pau were both in their prime. This simply doesn't happen to the Pacers, Grizzlies and TWolves of the world. DWest was the closest thing to that, but he came to Indiana to rest his knee and rehab on what even he said was a deep team. It was a good fit for him in that case. If he had been healthy, he may be a Celtic right now.

vnzla81
08-11-2012, 10:21 AM
I've figured out Orlando's super secret master plan. They saw how good the Pacers were with a mostly non-lotto team, and decided to emulate us.

Pacers' 2011-12 by draft position:
George (10)
Hansbrough (13)
Granger (17)
Hibbert (17)
West (18)
Jones (20)
Collison (21)
Hill (26)
Barbosa (28)
Pendergraph (31)
Fesenko (38)
Stephenson (40)
Price (52)
Amundson (undrafted)

Orlando's 2012-13 roster (as of now):
Redick (11)
Harkless (15)
Turkoglu (16)
Vucevic (16)
Richardson (18)
Nicholson (19)
Nelson (20)
Harrington (25)
Afflalo (27)
Eyenga (30)
Harper (32)
Davis (35)
McRoberts (37)
O'Quinn (49)
Ayon (undrafted)

That's one less lotto pick than the Pacers last year! And just to be sure that they don't cheat the process, the Magic made sure that all the picks they're getting back in the trade are guaranteed to be non-lotto. You have to admire such a single-minded devotion to a vision of team-building ;)

Alas, the Pacers themselves don't follow the non-lotto philosophy faithfully. We added another lotto pick this year (Augustin, drafted #9), giving us 50% more lotto picks than last year. We're doomed I tell you :-p

Wow I feel bad for that team, I hope for their sake that they don't hire the clown.

wintermute
08-11-2012, 10:29 AM
Wow I feel bad for that team, I hope for their sake that they don't hire the clown.

They already hired a coach. Vaughn, ex-Spurs assistant.

Actually, Obie's teams had better talent on paper. Dunleavy (#3), Ford (#8), Rush (#13), Murphy (#14). Draft position is overrated ;)

Basketball Fan
08-11-2012, 11:53 AM
As bad as this was for Orlando they got more out of this than when they let Shaq bolt to the Lakers and got nothing.

But Denver got more athletic and the Sixers got more balanced I'm surprised Stern let this through to be honest. However I'm not too worried about this succeeding only because Mike Brown is coach and really I don't trust his abilities.

Now if it was Phil Jackson we'd be sizing up #12 right now.

rm1369
08-11-2012, 02:15 PM
Eliminating max players will just cause there to be no mid level paid players. You'd have stars taking up all the money teams can pay and a bunch of guys getting paid the minimum. So then teams like the Lakers would get all of the secondary players when all the offers are in the same vicinity.

I fail to see how that would help, really.

I completely disagree. The NFL doesnt have a max salary and they still have a middle class. A max player salary only helps those teams teams with the top 5-8 players. Eliminating it would spread the wealth some, but, most importantly, it would make teams with stars pay market value for the production they receive. Right now, teams with stars get such a discount that there is no way to truly compete with them. Eliminating that is the first step to competitive balance. I just don't believe the league wants it.

shags
08-11-2012, 02:42 PM
As bad as this was for Orlando they got more out of this than when they let Shaq bolt to the Lakers and got nothing.

But Denver got more athletic and the Sixers got more balanced I'm surprised Stern let this through to be honest. However I'm not too worried about this succeeding only because Mike Brown is coach and really I don't trust his abilities.

Now if it was Phil Jackson we'd be sizing up #12 right now.

Stern didn't have a choice. The trade fit within the requirements of the CBA, and that's all that matters.

Mad-Mad-Mario
08-11-2012, 05:52 PM
Yeah and the NBA was so successful in the 70's....

They managed to drive another league out of business and not get out attended by soccer.

jackinbox
08-11-2012, 06:38 PM
The NBA will never regain the dominance it once had until a commissioner is willing to step up and quit letting big market teams who can afford it(and already have the added bonus of being where players want to play) just sign players and or trade for players with little to no thought to the cap. I think too much is made of this "big market" team in terms of attracting superstars.

First off, Miami is the 16th largest TV market. Those guys didn't go there because of the market size. It had to do with the organization and other reasons. I'm always surprised to hear Miami referred to as "big market", because it isn't.

Golden State is a big market (#6) and they haven't done squat in decades. The Wizards are market #8 and even Michael Jordan couldn't do much to help them. The Knicks, Clippers and Bulls are in the top 3 markets and have had moderate success at best in the the last 10 years.

Meanwhile, OKC (#44) and the Spurs (#36) are in smaller markets than the Pacers (#26) and have had great success.

A small market team can succeed, and large market teams can fail pretty badly. It takes a smart organization to do well in the NBA.

MyFavMartin
08-11-2012, 07:39 PM
The poor "small market teams" don't want a hard cap, they love that the lakers are giving them money, a hard cap wouldn't give money to those that are under the luxury tax because everybody would be under.

The NFL succeeds with competitive balance. The NBA is more like the MLB.

xBulletproof
08-11-2012, 07:41 PM
I completely disagree. The NFL doesnt have a max salary and they still have a middle class. A max player salary only helps those teams teams with the top 5-8 players. Eliminating it would spread the wealth some, but, most importantly, it would make teams with stars pay market value for the production they receive. Right now, teams with stars get such a discount that there is no way to truly compete with them. Eliminating that is the first step to competitive balance. I just don't believe the league wants it.

Teams with stars will always get players at a discount that want to try to tag along to win a title. There's nothing you can do to change that, at all.

Also, comparing the NFL to NBA isn't even close. Cap wise, individual player impact wise or anything really. Entirely different monsters.

rm1369
08-11-2012, 11:13 PM
Teams with stars will always get players at a discount that want to try to tag along to win a title. There's nothing you can do to change that, at all.

Also, comparing the NFL to NBA isn't even close. Cap wise, individual player impact wise or anything really. Entirely different monsters.

Yes, teams with stars will have an slight advantage in acquiring lower level talent. Thats far different than being able to afford LBJ, Wade, and Bosh or Kobe, Howard, and Gasol. The current max salary allows you to fit several of those star players on one team. Pay LBJ his true value and that becomes significantly harder to do - unless guys want to pass on tens of millions of dollars to team up. If they want to pass on that kind of money there is nothing else you can do, but I would be surprised if anyone would.

You are correct - the NBA and NFL are completly different. The NFL has a salary structure that allows small market teams to compete on a nearly even playing field with large market teams. The NBA does not. The closest thing you have to look at is the other sports that have no max salary. I know both the NFL and MLB have a middle class. Besides no max salary, their structures are completly different from each other. In the NBA teams without stars would create and sustain a middle class by doing what the Pacers are currently trying to do - build a solid all around team. I've been critical of the Pacers strategy because in the current NBA I know it will not lead to a title. Remove the max salary and I believe it becomes a viable strategy. The max salary only benefits teams with a player who's true value is higher than that artificial ceiling. Everyone else, including the Pacers, is fighting an uphill battle to compete with those teams.

jeffg-body
08-12-2012, 01:48 AM
I am just glad he ended up out west. Bynum will make that Philly team much more balanced though as long as he can stay healthy.

15th parallel
08-12-2012, 03:57 AM
I'm kinda late in this party, but let me say my opinion on this trade:

1. While it looks like another unfair deal from the Lakers, I think the Lakers did offer a fair package to get Howard. Bynum is young and is a top center right now (excluding his immaturity and his potential injury-prone career), and they did release a 1st rounder. What I still can't get over with is the Pau Gasol trade, which no matter how much spin you put at it is still the most lopsided trade ever, of course favoring the Lakers. It still disgusts me at how little they offered to get Gasol, 3 trips to the finals, 2 championships, and Kobe's only MVP (it is still because of Pau, IMO).

2. Denver and Philly, as weird as it is, got better returns as compared to what Orlando got. Orlando released the best player on the trade, and got the worst package at the end of it? Such a waste.

3. Orlando definitely got better deals from other teams, but you got to question their judgment or motives on this trade. I'm not thinking of conspiracies but you got to look at how much teams like Houston and Brooklyn are willing to gut out their roster too much just to get Howard, and yet they accepted a deal that only netted them role players and future and probably late st rounders.

Well on paper, Lakers are currently championship contenders. But it's still not a guarantee on actual as the season has not yet started. Let's see how this season will unfold for every team involved and for the other 26 teams. Miami is still the team to beat.

Heisenberg
08-12-2012, 04:45 AM
If I'm Orlando I'd honestly have probably just preferred Bynum and a 1st and done it straight up with LA. Maybe they have a hard on for Andrew Wiggins or something. I honestly wouldn't blame em, but man, talk about the long game.

D-BONE
08-12-2012, 08:53 AM
I'm kinda late in this party, but let me say my opinion on this trade:

1. While it looks like another unfair deal from the Lakers, I think the Lakers did offer a fair package to get Howard. Bynum is young and is a top center right now (excluding his immaturity and his potential injury-prone career), and they did release a 1st rounder. What I still can't get over with is the Pau Gasol trade, which no matter how much spin you put at it is still the most lopsided trade ever, of course favoring the Lakers. It still disgusts me at how little they offered to get Gasol, 3 trips to the finals, 2 championships, and Kobe's only MVP (it is still because of Pau, IMO).



Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Yes, a grossly lopsided deal. Yes, Kobe earned his accolades and success. But, Gasol too often gets overlooked/underrated. Easily one of the top 5 bigs in the game. Certainly an elite offensive big man.

Unclebuck
08-13-2012, 08:27 AM
Ok, we had this debate before. The ratings are nielson ratings for the finals. They are what they are, take them or leave them. As for the NBA losing money, that's straight from the NBA's mouth from 2012, see my post below and do some research. I'm also pretty sure that there were very few nationally televised games this year. As in 1983, they were mainly on cable channels. And plenty of the NBA playoff games weren't even available on TV to watch without some sort of extended sports package, which seems worse to me than a tape delay. The same mediums that make more games available are the same mediums that allow for more options. So while those of us who want to watch games have an easier time of it, less people are watching the games.

Oh, and the popularity has basically been in the crapper since 1998. So I'm confused what part of the above was false.


It is a little difficult to have a discussion about the popularity when you say it has been in the crapper for 14 years. What can I say - no it hasn't. It has not been in the crapper. How can I prove it hasn't been a crapper.

The leagiue is in smuch, much better shape now than in 1983 - by every measure imaginable.

Not sure what else I can say

BillS
08-13-2012, 09:52 AM
What is the luxary tax hit on that amount going to be?

In the next 2-3 years is there is going to be some regret from several owners in regards to luxary tax dollars spent vs. the actual return on investment.

Not when it's a franchise that makes 3 times the luxury tax hit on their local TV revenue contract alone. At some point anything less than $100M is chump change.

Now, if the luxury tax was a PERCENTAGE of the team's income rather than a fixed amount ... hmm. That would allow the smaller market teams to overspend for less, which is more of an incentive to spend for a championship and is favorable to players for their salaries. I wonder if there would be a way to make that work.

Larry Staverman
08-13-2012, 11:56 AM
Not when it's a franchise that makes 3 times the luxury tax hit on their local TV revenue contract alone. At some point anything less than $100M is chump change.


Obviously the Lakers have gone all in this year but whether they win a title or not paying a $100 million payroll, the $65 million in luxury tax next year as well as an additional $50 million for the new revenue sharing deal is going to make any owner gag no matter how much their TV deal is.

Sandman21
08-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Obviously the Lakers have gone all in this year but whether they win a title or not paying a $100 million payroll, the $65 million in luxury tax next year as well as an additional $50 million for the new revenue sharing deal is going to make any owner gag no matter how much their TV deal is.

I agree with this. The Lakers are mortgaging their future right now with Kobe being a 33yr old with a lot of mileage and Nash already older than dirt. In a few years, assuming Dwight resigns (which I think he does) it's going to be his show with not much help coming in through the draft until at least 2018 (isn't that likely to be when the CBA comes up again?).

The Knicks blinked at Lin because of the luxury tax implications, so it is having an effect on the big market teams.

Heisenberg
08-13-2012, 01:53 PM
I agree with this. The Lakers are mortgaging their future right now with Kobe being a 33yr old with a lot of mileage and Nash already older than dirt. In a few years, assuming Dwight resigns (which I think he does) it's going to be his show with not much help coming in through the draft until at least 2018 (isn't that likely to be when the CBA comes up again?).

The Knicks blinked at Lin because of the luxury tax implications, so it is having an effect on the big market teams.The Lakers will have significant cap space the summer of 2014, which is right now a loaded FA class. They'll continue being the Lakers.

BillS
08-13-2012, 02:40 PM
Obviously the Lakers have gone all in this year but whether they win a title or not paying a $100 million payroll, the $65 million in luxury tax next year as well as an additional $50 million for the new revenue sharing deal is going to make any owner gag no matter how much their TV deal is.

I dunno, there's a HUGE gap between gagging on huge losses vs. small losses and gagging on huge profits vs. small profits. While I disagree with those who say owning a sports team is enough egoboo to lose money on it year after year, I DO agree that profits are icing on the cake. Owners of teams would be happy to break even, they aren't going to cry if winning a championship cuts into profits but doesn't cause losses.

cgg
08-13-2012, 02:50 PM
Winning championships is part of why they get that on their local tv deal.

vnzla81
08-13-2012, 02:52 PM
The Lakers will have significant cap space the summer of 2014, which is right now a loaded FA class. They'll continue being the Lakers.

Yep they will have Howard to build around.

BillS
08-13-2012, 03:03 PM
Winning championships is part of why they get that on their local tv deal.

Well, that and being in a huge local TV market that is second only to NYC.

We can play the "chicken or the egg" game, but if you go back far enough you'll find that the ways LA won those old championships simply aren't available to other teams today. Today, money matters. It's all well and good to demand billionaires lose money on your behalf, it's certainly better if those billionaires can make deals that mean they DON'T lose money.

Larry Staverman
08-13-2012, 03:12 PM
I dunno, there's a HUGE gap between gagging on huge losses vs. small losses and gagging on huge profits vs. small profits. While I disagree with those who say owning a sports team is enough egoboo to lose money on it year after year, I DO agree that profits are icing on the cake. Owners of teams would be happy to break even, they aren't going to cry if winning a championship cuts into profits but doesn't cause losses.


While Cuban, Dolan and even Simon might feel that way I believe that, other than some real estate investments that Jerry made money on many years ago, the Lakers are the main asset of the Buss family. While championships are the goal supporting Jerry and the dependents must be a priority so every dollar spent is coming directly out of the family's pockets.

Breaking even for them means Jerry Buss has to give up the gold diggers and Jim Buss has to give up the hookers.

CableKC
08-13-2012, 03:13 PM
I read that the Lakers will have about $90+ mil in Salary devoted to just 6 Players. How much LT are they going to owe to the rest of the NBA?

Sandman21
08-13-2012, 03:17 PM
The Lakers will have significant cap space the summer of 2014, which is right now a loaded FA class. They'll continue being the Lakers.

2014 is a LONG way out, I don't think that class is going to be as loaded as we think right now. Have to think the Big 3 stay in Miami, Melo gets another ton of money from the Knicks, Dirk, Pierce, and maybe even Amare will be aging if not retired already by that time. Pretty much that leaves their options to be Gasol and Bryant, who they already have (and will likely throw a huge amount of money at in Kobe's case), an aging Granger, Rudy Gay, and Darko Milicic.

Not that impressed to be honest. And assuming that Howard gets (which he will get)and signs a max deal with the Lakers as well.

shags
08-13-2012, 04:03 PM
I read that the Lakers will have about $90+ mil in Salary devoted to just 6 Players. How much LT are they going to owe to the rest of the NBA?

If the Lakers have are $30 million over the luxury tax, they'll be paying $85 million in luxury tax, if my calculations are correct.

pacer4ever
08-13-2012, 05:26 PM
I like the thinking by ORL would of traded for a similar package if I was GM. I just dont get why they couldn't get rid of Hedo or Big Baby. I would of had to know what the Rockets were offering. I like Moe Harkless but if I could of got Lamb and a few other spects and the lottery pick I would of done that. But if I was a magic fan I like the thinking of the FO. Completely rebuild from the ground up don't retool. If they can get Andrew Wiggins or a caliber of player like him in the next 5 years they should be good for a long time. 5 years of rebuilding is worth it if done correctly they will be able to keep their star if they do it right. Dwight had a reason to want to leave that FO was not good Otis Smith is terrible.

CableKC
08-13-2012, 06:07 PM
If the Lakers have are $30 million over the luxury tax, they'll be paying $85 million in luxury tax, if my calculations are correct.
Wow.......that's a huge chunk of change. next year, it will even be worse when they re-sign Dwight. They are at $61 mil with Kobe/Pau/Blake/Artest/Eyenga/Gaudelock.......that doesn't count Clark and Jamison.

Larry Staverman
08-13-2012, 08:30 PM
If the Lakers have are $30 million over the luxury tax, they'll be paying $85 million in luxury tax, if my calculations are correct.


According to Larry Coon you are correct. I was calculating $65 million on $25 million over. Either way with the revenue sharing it is a very large nut!

They will probably amnesty Gasol after this year which would save approx $59 million from the bill, $19 million salary + $59 million tax

Would you pay $78 million for Gasol??


RT @LarryCoon: Knicks salary + tax in 2006-07 was $162.1 million. Lakers 2013-14 will be about $185 million salary + tax if Howard re-signs

shags
08-13-2012, 09:22 PM
Wow.......that's a huge chunk of change. next year, it will even be worse when they re-sign Dwight. They are at $61 mil with Kobe/Pau/Blake/Artest/Eyenga/Gaudelock.......that doesn't count Clark and Jamison.

Well, just to clarify, that $85 million is for next year. This year it's still a $1 for $1 luxury tax penalty.

Heisenberg
08-13-2012, 09:40 PM
75% of the 08 Olympic Team are no in LA, NY, or Miami. Only ones that aren't are Prince, Boozer, and Redd.