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View Full Version : Website the keeps track of 5-man +/- Found!!



Hicks
02-12-2004, 06:32 PM
http://82games.com/0304IND2.HTM

That's the direct link to the Pacers' 5-man +/-.

That's an impressive website for stats. They keep track of every team, and you can actualy see the best 5-man lineups league-wide ranked there too.

Here's the link to that:

http://82games.com/comm12.htm

Our lineup of Tinsley Miller Artest O'Neal Foster is the 6th best.

Hicks
02-12-2004, 06:35 PM
More a-typical stats to wrap your brain around:

http://82games.com/0304IND5.HTM

ChicagoJ
02-12-2004, 06:44 PM
Great find (I'm off the hook *whew*)!

I also get a chuckle out of the units at the bottom of the list, but I didn't see them on here. Anderson, Miller, Artest, O'Neal and Pollard was such a bad combination that, even though they haven't really been on the floor together since the first week, they're still at/ near the bottom of the list for the Pacers.

Ragnar
02-12-2004, 07:54 PM
I found several things interesting in there. The lineup of

Tins
Miller
Artest
Oneal
Foster

is 6th but replace Tins with Anderson and you get the 8th rating. Thats pretty good. Now why is it that Anderson is not our primary backup?

Also the 5 man stats suport my theory that Johnson is sucking the life out of the Pacers when he is in the game.

For Example the same player just replace the pg and you get these numbers

1 Tinsley-Miller-Artest-O'Neal-Foster 287 586 468 +118 15 5 75.0

Thats +118 with Tins

2 Anderson-Miller-Artest-O'Neal-Foster 268 530 447 +83 14 7 66.6

+83 with Anderson instead of Tins

5 Johnson-Miller-Artest-O'Neal-Foster 99 200 172 +28 10 8 55.5

Only + 28 when you put in Johnson.

Now it is still a plus but how often does he play with those guys?

The combo's he has spent the most time with

3 Johnson-Miller-Artest-Harrington-O'Neal 105 207 212 -5 9 10 47.3

-5 MINUS 5

Johnson-Jones-Artest-Harrington-O'Neal 71 144 140 +4 13 9 59.0

+4

Johnson-Artest-Harrington-O'Neal-Foster 67 120 122 -2 11 12 47.8

-2

There is a minus 18 also but I am not going to blame him for Pollard and Cro.

Ok now why is he the primary backup over Anderson?

ChicagoJ
02-12-2004, 08:03 PM
Two more points:

If you add the minutes for JT+RM+RA+JF+JO to the minutes for KA+RM+RA+JF+JO (the two primary starting lineups we've had this season), you'll find that our starters play together much less everyone else's. Why? Foster plays so little.

Because AJ and Al come into the game together in the first and third quarters, we don't get a very good measure of the effectiveness of our "finishing" lineup of JT+RM+RA+AH+JO.

Kegboy
02-13-2004, 12:10 AM
Holy crap! I had to force myself not to look too close to that site. I'm going to have to devote my weekend to just going through everything.

Now, if only they kept ref stats, too. :devil:

Unclebuck
02-13-2004, 12:40 AM
is 6th but replace Tins with Anderson and you get the 8th rating. Thats pretty good. Now why is it that Anderson is not our primary backup?

Also the 5 man stats suport my theory that Johnson is sucking the life out of the Pacers when he is in the game.



Rag, I completely disagree . AJ is a better backup than Kenny.

And to suggest for one minute that AJ is sucking the life out of the Pacers is idiotic. That is a crazy notion. :mad:


General comment: Not directed at Ragnar.

When I look at the five man +/-, the only thing I see is the team is better when J.O and Artest is on the floor and when neither are on the floor the Pacers are not very good. But then again I could have told you that without all the stats

I have looked through a lot of the stats and if you go by the stats Foster should play more

Anthem
02-13-2004, 02:39 AM
What I wanted to see but didn't is the lineup of Tinsley-Artest-Harrington-Jermaine-Foster. Has this lineup really not played together at all?

So much for my lineup of the future.

Anthem
02-13-2004, 02:41 AM
Rag, I completely disagree . AJ is a better backup than Kenny.

Right... because Kenny has played backup SO MUCH to give you such a well-informed opinion.... :devil:

ChicagoJ
02-13-2004, 11:24 AM
What I wanted to see but didn't is the lineup of Tinsley-Artest-Harrington-Jermaine-Foster. Has this lineup really not played together at all?

So much for my lineup of the future.


Because Fred Jones has earned the majority of the backup 2-guard minutes, Ron isn't playing with Al, JO and JF very often.

Al at SF with JO and JF is pretty rare, and FJ is probably at SG as often and Ron is with that combo.

Ragnar
02-13-2004, 01:45 PM
Rag, I completely disagree . AJ is a better backup than Kenny.

And to suggest for one minute that AJ is sucking the life out of the Pacers is idiotic. That is a crazy notion. :mad:


General comment: Not directed at Ragnar.

When I look at the five man +/-, the only thing I see is the team is better when J.O and Artest is on the floor and when neither are on the floor the Pacers are not very good. But then again I could have told you that without all the stats

I have looked through a lot of the stats and if you go by the stats Foster should play more

I went a little overboard with the sucking the life out statement. But I was trying to be absurd to make my point. Kenny is the better pg than AJ. Thats why he was the starter before he thankfully got injured and Rick had no choice but to play Tinsley.

I am half affraid that Rick is not playing Kenny right now in case he gets an excuse to take Tins out of the lineup again. That way he could put Kenny back in as the starter and not alienate AJ in the process.

Thats just my paranoya talking mind you not anything else.

But back to the main point I want to see Kenny play some of the backup minutes to see whether or not he looses the regularly double diget leads like AJ does. Is it that the team lessens the pressure when they are up or is it that AJ just cant handle it?

I just want to see it in a game thats all. If Kenny looses the lead the same as AJ then fine let AJ be the backup.

Hicks
02-13-2004, 05:12 PM
I still think your whole theory of AJ losing the team leads is offbase. It's not like he's a clutz out there or misses tons of shots or throws a lot of turnovers. For whatever reason, leads slip with the second unit. I'm not convinced it's all (or even majorly) his fault.

Ragnar
02-13-2004, 05:43 PM
I still think your whole theory of AJ losing the team leads is offbase. It's not like he's a clutz out there or misses tons of shots or throws a lot of turnovers. For whatever reason, leads slip with the second unit. I'm not convinced it's all (or even majorly) his fault.

I think these 5 man +/- suport my theory.

Same people other than pg

Tins +118

Anderson +83

Johnson +28

That is a staggering difference. You go to the lineups that he spends the most time with and he is +4 and -5 so thats a -1

His individual stat is -8.7 as I said before I dont want to blame him for Pollard and Crosier so I will go with the -1 thats was off the pace of Kenny and Tins.


All I am saying is that like before when Tins was not playing I just want to see what happens if Kenny comes in as the second PG. If they simply try it for a couple of games I would be happy. (unless of course Kenny does freakishly well and then gets benched we would all be pissed)

Hicks
02-13-2004, 08:01 PM
I agree the 5 man +/- points to AJ.

But I wish someone could show me WHAT he's doing to cause it, 'cause I just don't know. :confused: