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View Full Version : Hamilton tried to get into the stands why wasnt he suspended?



Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:02 PM
I just noticed in one of the videos that Hamilton had to be restrained just like Jermaine. He was trying to go over the scorers table to get into the fight.

Since Stern made a point out of Jermaine trying to go into the stands and that whas why his suspension is so severe why didnt Hamilton get suspended for trying to do the same thing?

sweabs
11-23-2004, 04:04 PM
Well Rasheed was up there as well, same with Jones, Harrison, etc. I think Stern said that there were some people going to go up as peacemakers - and he recognized that.

Perhaps since Rip is on the Pistons, he felt he was only wanting to go up as a peacemaker.

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:08 PM
No Rip was clearly having to be held back by both his team mates and then by Larry Brown while he was trying to get into the fight.

sweabs
11-23-2004, 04:11 PM
What is happening in your avatar Ragnar? Is that Rip? Very interesting...

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:12 PM
That is him being restrained from going over the scorers table I took it from the video

Blizz
11-23-2004, 04:17 PM
Stern's claim on the point that JO would go into the stand and hurt someone is really weak.

His "go into the stand" claim "only" apply to JO. Hamilton and Tinsley too were trying to go into the stand; however, they were stopped by the security. I can't see how it is logical to assume that they both would not cause any troubles if they really did go into the stand.

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:23 PM
My point is that Jermaines suspension is 25 games and not way way less because he tried to go into the stands yet Hamilton clearly tried to go into the stands and if you watch the video it is clear that he is trying to get into the fight. Yet he got nothing. This is yet another insulting lack of a suspension.

Each time I watch the video of the fight I notice something new. For example the first person to actually throw a punch was not Ron. It was Jack and that guy who was hitting Ron from behind.

Natston
11-23-2004, 04:24 PM
It's because Rip is not a member of the Indiana Scapegoats, so IMO it's pretty logical that he didn't get suspended.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 04:29 PM
Yash, just like Freddie Jones and David Harrison are both Pistons too, otherwise they'd have been suspended for going into the crowd.

Oh, wait....

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:32 PM
Now wait a minute Kstat there is a huge difference. Freddie and David were doing the restraining and Hamilton was being restrained. It was Jermaine having to be restrained that Stern pointed out as the reason his suspension is so harsh. If that is the case then Hamilton should get 20 games.

Blizz
11-23-2004, 04:32 PM
It's because Rip is not a member of the Indiana Scapegoats, so IMO it's pretty logical that he didn't get suspended.

how about Tinsley?

He did try to get into stand at the score board and while JO was pulled to the tunnel. My point is Stern's claim only apply to JO in this incident.

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:34 PM
Tinsley was clearly trying to stop the fight. He tried to get in between Ron and Ben when the whole thing started.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 04:36 PM
Now wait a minute Kstat there is a huge difference. Freddie and David were doing the restraining and Hamilton was being restrained. It was Jermaine having to be restrained that Stern pointed out as the reason his suspension is so harsh. If that is the case then Hamilton should get 20 games.

two points:

-Jermaine did NOT get his suspension for INTENDING to go into the stands. He got it for going Jonny Cage on some fans on the floor, when he should have been letting security handle things.

For the record, I think JO was punished too harshly, and Jax got off WAY too easy. There should be more of a distinction between fighting on the court and in the stands.

I would have given Jax the same punishment as Artest, but JO I would have given 10 games max. You can't attack fans, wherever they are, but something should be said for him not going into the stands.

-Rip could have been going into the stands, as Rasheed did, to play peacemaker. We'll never know. He also NEVER LEFT THE BENCH, since officially he was still CHECKED INTO THE GAME.

sweabs
11-23-2004, 04:39 PM
two points:

-Jermaine did NOT get his suspension for INTENDING to go into the stands. He got it for going Jonny Cage on some fans on the floor, when he should have been letting security handle things.

For the record, I think JO was punished too harshly, and Jax got off WAY too easy. There should be more of a distinction between fighting on the court and in the stands.

I would have given Jax the same punishment as Artest, but JO I would have given 10 games max. You can't attack fans, wherever they are, but something should be said for him not going into the stands.

-Rip could have been going into the stands, as Rasheed did, to play peacemaker. We'll never know. He also NEVER LEFT THE BENCH, since officially he was still CHECKED INTO THE GAME.

Don't you find it odd that Stern assumed Jermaine was going up into the stands to just fight, and not play the role as "peacemaker" - and he assumes that Hamilton was going in as "peacemaker".

Natston
11-23-2004, 04:40 PM
The fact is that Rip tried to get into the original fight but had to be restrained. He also tried to go into the stands with Ron Artest caution before being restrained, then he tried to start **** after Ron and Jax had left the stands and he had to be restrained before being led to the lockerroom in a bear hug...

Unclebuck
11-23-2004, 04:43 PM
Ragnar is making a great point. Stern said one reason why J.O got 25 games is because he trie to get into the stands. So I think any player who tried to get into the stands should be penalized the same. Obviosuly only a portion of J.O's 25 games were because of "trying to go into the stands"

Kstat
11-23-2004, 04:46 PM
Don't you find it odd that Stern assumed Jermaine was going up into the stands to just fight, and not play the role as "peacemaker" - and he assumes that Hamilton was going in as "peacemaker".

He assumed that because JO was punching fans on the FLOOR. JO CERTAINLY wasn;t playing peacemaker on the FLOOR.

If Jo doesn't jack any fans in the face, he doesn't get suspended, reguardless wether or not he tried to get into the stands.

blanket
11-23-2004, 04:46 PM
Can someone explain to me the disparity between JO's 25 game punishment and Johnson's 5 game suspension? They both punched the same guy. Sure JO's punch looked harder and they guy didn't appear to be coming at him, but does that justify a 20 game difference for what is essentially the same act? Or is it just that JO's punch made a better highlight clip for the news shows, so he had to be punished more... :unimpress

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 04:50 PM
Kstat I have more pics of Rip being restrained by Brown and eventually drug out of the arena by security he was clearly trying to get into the fight. His team thought he was his coach thought he was and security thought he was. Only you think he was not.

I agree that Jermaine is partially being punished for hitting the fan on the floor. He should have recieved about 5 games for hitting a fan who came onto the floor to pick a fight. He got the other 20 for trying to get into the stands. Thats why I said Rip should have gotten 20 games.

Remember I think Ben should be gone for how ever many games Ron is gone because NO FAN THREW ANYTHING UNTILL BEN DID.

Blizz
11-23-2004, 04:51 PM
Don't you find it odd that Stern assumed Jermaine was going up into the stands to just fight, and not play the role as "peacemaker" - and he assumes that Hamilton was going in as "peacemaker".

First, punishment for what a person "might" do is odd in the first place.

Second, the claim of Hamilton or Tinsley try to go into the stand as a peacemaker isn't any stronger than the claim on JO.

Thrid, AJ hit the same guy and get 5 games suspension. So JO punch the same guy would get 5x5 = 25 games suspension.

Stern's reasoning on the suspension is really "interesting".

Vicious Tyrant
11-23-2004, 04:51 PM
-Jermaine did NOT get his suspension for INTENDING to go into the stands. He got it for going Jonny Cage on some fans on the floor,

Jonny Cage??? What's that?

Vicious Tyrant
11-23-2004, 04:55 PM
I forget what thats called (I learned it in my logic class) but its skewed. You cant say "A" happened cause of "B"


Property of the Undistributed Middle?

I have no idea what it means, but I'm pretty sure Prof Corduan used that phrase in logic class back in college twenty years ago.

Hope that helps....

Ragnar
11-23-2004, 05:01 PM
I forget what thats called (I learned it in my logic class) but its skewed. You cant say "A" happened cause of "B"

Any grown man who says "I threw this cup cause Ben, a player who is on the same level as Ron" threw a towel at him" has a lot of problems


As I have said I can not prove that no one would have thrown anything even if Ben had not. My point is that no fan did throw anything until RIGHT AFTER BEN DID. It was almost immediate.

My point does not meet the Undistributed Middle test as I did not say all Pistons fans acted because of Ben. The Property of the Undistributed Middle is when you say all terrorists are Arabs therefore all Arabs are terrorists.

My point is that the one fan may have and because of the immediacy of his act it is reasonable to assume that he did act in direct relation to Bens actions since he did the exact same thing immediatly after Ben did.

Blizz
11-23-2004, 05:04 PM
I forget what thats called (I learned it in my logic class) but its skewed. You cant say "A" happened cause of "B"

Any grown man who says "I threw this cup cause Ben, a player who is on the same level as Ron" threw a towel at him" has a lot of problems

There also an important logic call inductive.

If you claim "if B then A", you need to have enough proof to make it ture either.

One way to prove your claim is through inductive steps by showing when every time factor B exist, it would lead to result A.

Stern's claims never work in this logic.

Natston
11-23-2004, 05:09 PM
I guess I slipped in Logic becuase I couldn't figure out what was existential in life and what wasn't...

Blizz
11-23-2004, 05:10 PM
All this logic, now i remember why I hated that class :mad:

In *vapacersfan's* terms, David Stern = SUCKS

That's would be truth functionally trure as long as you are wrong always. XD

Alabama-Redneck
11-23-2004, 06:35 PM
Stern's logic is a little strange. When ask by reporters why Fred Jones was not suspended for being in the stands, he answered "Fred was in the game and therefore did not leave the bench and he was acting as a peacemaker". He also stated "If he had not been in the game, he would have been suspended."

My question is- useing the same set of rules, why was Harrison not suspended when he went into the stands and was not in the game??

It sounds like Stern's rules are written on a rubber sheet and can be stretch in what ever direction he wants.