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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

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  • #1

    Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

    ESPN.com - NBA - Walton: Punishment too light

    By Bill Walton
    ESPN Insider

    There's no other way to put it: I was stunned and flabbergasted by what I saw on the court at the end of the Detroit Pistons and Indiana Pacers game last Friday night, and I've been sickened and repulsed as I have looked back on the senseless violence that took place that night.

    I've been around the NBA now for 30 years and Friday night was without a doubt the low point.

    The foundation of the NBA took a cast of thousands decades to build.

    In one night, Ron Artest and others tore it all down.
    I've just been over-the-top saddened, embarrassed and struggling desperately and mightily to figure out ways to move forward. This is the NBA, professional basketball. It is supposed to be about fun. It is supposed to be about going to an event to have a good time. And as I consider what got us to this place, I'm reminded of the poster I have right here on my wall. It's got a big, beautiful eagle soaring above a majestic scene. The caption is, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    And now is a time for everyone to see.

    It is a privilege and an honor to play in the NBA, and many people in that game Friday night have abrogated those privileges and disgraced the honor of the NBA.

    This league has been built on the blood, sweat and tears of thousands upon thousands of people. The awful nature of the developments seen Friday night in Detroit -- players going into the stands, fighting fans -- has an incredible impact on every aspect of the game.

    Everybody who has ever been involved with the NBA is going to have to now go to great lengths to explain themselves. All the goodwill that has been built up over decades has been damaged. The NBA has always been at the forefront at dealing with problems through education. And while the NBA has made great strides to convince the public of the greatness of our game -- we're in an entertainment and public relations business, after all -- that is a battle that has to be fought and won every single day.

    That just is much more difficult now. The ability to attract fans -- what makes it fun, the experience, the atmosphere, the sense of happiness and joy and escape from real-world problems -- is the core aspect of the entertainment world. Now we have to start over. In just a few short seconds, to have it all come tumbling down, is a disgrace.

    These games are played for the fans, and for the fans only. It has nothing to do with the players. I cannot imagine a scenario that would come up that would cause a player to go into the stands after the fans, which is why I believe NBA commissioner David Stern was just too nice, and the penalties he handed out -- a season-long suspension for Ron Artest and long-term suspensions for Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal, among others -- were inappropriately light.

    To have this unprecedented level of violence, and then have the players' association and the players' agents coming out and trying to defend and make excuses for this atrocious behavior is just over the top. The excusers and enablers will say, "Well, when somebody throws a beer at you or yells at you, you're supposed to respond."

    I do not understand that mentality. People have been yelling and screaming at me my entire life. You deal with it appropriately. I can't say strongly enough how wrong all the players were for going after the fans.

    When you're dealing with antagonism, there are several approaches. When I was a player, people would be on my case, in my face, throwing things at me, yelling and screaming, and I always considered that inspiration. The only way to respond to a person so diametrically opposed to everything I'm doing, saying and stand for was to act with a level of class and dignity and professionalism. Ultimately, if you do that, the same person who was confronting you will come to respect you for doing your job.

    Looking back at the sacrifices of the thousands of ex-players and hundreds of current players who are outstanding citizens and behave themselves on a regular, day-by-day basis ... to have it all be dragged down by the senseless and foolish violence we saw Friday night is embarrassing and sad. The incentive is there now to go after the other teams' star players, to provoke and start these reprehensible acts. It all comes back to a player's professional responsibility to prepare himself for everything. The same way you prepare yourself for a game-winning shot, or step to the free throw line with the game on the line and everybody yelling at you, that's the same way you prepare for when violence breaks out. This is supposed to be a celebration of good times. Isn't that the whole reason we have sports? So people can settle their prideful differences without resorting to violence? There are no winners in this whole fiasco.

    Yes, the fans are tough. But that's no excuse. I don't think it's inevitable that an event like this would occur. The players need to start listening to the programs the NBA offers them, starting from rookie orientation, on how to deal with every single issue they could face. One of those issues is how to deal with out-of-control fans. It's the same way you do it out on the streets -- you call the authorities. We're supposed to have a civilized society here in the United States, where you don't just resort to vigilante justice. There are people who are well trained to deal with others who are out of control. People who are in the public arena and don't prepare themselves for these possibilities are doing themselves, the NBA and our culture a disservice.

    The impact on the court will be very tangible for the Pacers. It's going to be extremely difficult for Indiana to have any kind of season. This will stay with them and their players even beyond this season. Detroit is the best team in basketball, and will be able to recover from this. But this really creates an even greater opening for the Miami Heat, who now have an easier path and one less team to go through toward the Eastern Conference championship.

    But it's in the court of public opinion where the game is most damaged. I'm a very active member in the NBA retired players' association and I've spoken to hundreds of ex-players and coaches. The shock and dismay as to what went down on that court is astounding. The lives of professional athletes and entertainers are so tenuous, anyway. To have that delicate balance thrown so far out of kilter is disgusting and senseless.

    The season was off to a great start, from the momentum of the China games to the excitement of new teams and emerging stars, Grant Hill's return to terrific rookies. Friday's events make the past NBA nonsense of Latrell Sprewell and Alonzo Mourning and Ron Artest's requests for time off all look miniscule. Now everyone in the NBA family is in a position of having to start all over.

    We're just getting started in terms of how this will be addressed, but I do know that in the leadership, commitment and vision of David Stern, all of us in the NBA have a real chance of making it work. The fans have to believe in the credibility of the product, believe in the validity of the competition and believe that they can have a safe and entertaining time.

    Now, so many more dangerous and needless questions are being asked. Those will be forced into the equation of the fans' decisions as to how to spend their time and money.

    It's staggering, and just so depressing. I've had an extremely difficult time personally trying to move beyond this. This is all of our lives. The responsibility of the participants toward the ongoing promotion of the game itself, and the business of the game, cannot be taken lightly. We need to reclaim the game, and taking that responsibility seriously is the best place to begin.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

    Has one man every talked so much, and yet said so little?

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

      Originally posted by homedoggie
      ESPN.com - NBA - Walton: Punishment too light

      By Bill Walton
      ESPN Insider

      There's no other way to put it: I was stunned and flabbergasted by what I saw on the court at the end of the Detroit Pistons and Indiana Pacers game last Friday night, and I've been sickened and repulsed as I have looked back on the senseless violence that took place that night.

      I've been around the NBA now for 30 years and Friday night was without a doubt the low point.

      The foundation of the NBA took a cast of thousands decades to build.

      In one night, Ron Artest and others tore it all down.
      I've just been over-the-top saddened, embarrassed and struggling desperately and mightily to figure out ways to move forward. This is the NBA, professional basketball. It is supposed to be about fun. It is supposed to be about going to an event to have a good time. And as I consider what got us to this place, I'm reminded of the poster I have right here on my wall. It's got a big, beautiful eagle soaring above a majestic scene. The caption is, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

      And now is a time for everyone to see.

      It is a privilege and an honor to play in the NBA, and many people in that game Friday night have abrogated those privileges and disgraced the honor of the NBA.

      This league has been built on the blood, sweat and tears of thousands upon thousands of people. The awful nature of the developments seen Friday night in Detroit -- players going into the stands, fighting fans -- has an incredible impact on every aspect of the game.

      Everybody who has ever been involved with the NBA is going to have to now go to great lengths to explain themselves. All the goodwill that has been built up over decades has been damaged. The NBA has always been at the forefront at dealing with problems through education. And while the NBA has made great strides to convince the public of the greatness of our game -- we're in an entertainment and public relations business, after all -- that is a battle that has to be fought and won every single day.

      That just is much more difficult now. The ability to attract fans -- what makes it fun, the experience, the atmosphere, the sense of happiness and joy and escape from real-world problems -- is the core aspect of the entertainment world. Now we have to start over. In just a few short seconds, to have it all come tumbling down, is a disgrace.

      These games are played for the fans, and for the fans only. It has nothing to do with the players. I cannot imagine a scenario that would come up that would cause a player to go into the stands after the fans, which is why I believe NBA commissioner David Stern was just too nice, and the penalties he handed out -- a season-long suspension for Ron Artest and long-term suspensions for Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal, among others -- were inappropriately light.

      To have this unprecedented level of violence, and then have the players' association and the players' agents coming out and trying to defend and make excuses for this atrocious behavior is just over the top. The excusers and enablers will say, "Well, when somebody throws a beer at you or yells at you, you're supposed to respond."

      I do not understand that mentality. People have been yelling and screaming at me my entire life. You deal with it appropriately. I can't say strongly enough how wrong all the players were for going after the fans.

      When you're dealing with antagonism, there are several approaches. When I was a player, people would be on my case, in my face, throwing things at me, yelling and screaming, and I always considered that inspiration. The only way to respond to a person so diametrically opposed to everything I'm doing, saying and stand for was to act with a level of class and dignity and professionalism. Ultimately, if you do that, the same person who was confronting you will come to respect you for doing your job.

      Looking back at the sacrifices of the thousands of ex-players and hundreds of current players who are outstanding citizens and behave themselves on a regular, day-by-day basis ... to have it all be dragged down by the senseless and foolish violence we saw Friday night is embarrassing and sad. The incentive is there now to go after the other teams' star players, to provoke and start these reprehensible acts. It all comes back to a player's professional responsibility to prepare himself for everything. The same way you prepare yourself for a game-winning shot, or step to the free throw line with the game on the line and everybody yelling at you, that's the same way you prepare for when violence breaks out. This is supposed to be a celebration of good times. Isn't that the whole reason we have sports? So people can settle their prideful differences without resorting to violence? There are no winners in this whole fiasco.

      Yes, the fans are tough. But that's no excuse. I don't think it's inevitable that an event like this would occur. The players need to start listening to the programs the NBA offers them, starting from rookie orientation, on how to deal with every single issue they could face. One of those issues is how to deal with out-of-control fans. It's the same way you do it out on the streets -- you call the authorities. We're supposed to have a civilized society here in the United States, where you don't just resort to vigilante justice. There are people who are well trained to deal with others who are out of control. People who are in the public arena and don't prepare themselves for these possibilities are doing themselves, the NBA and our culture a disservice.

      The impact on the court will be very tangible for the Pacers. It's going to be extremely difficult for Indiana to have any kind of season. This will stay with them and their players even beyond this season. Detroit is the best team in basketball, and will be able to recover from this. But this really creates an even greater opening for the Miami Heat, who now have an easier path and one less team to go through toward the Eastern Conference championship.

      But it's in the court of public opinion where the game is most damaged. I'm a very active member in the NBA retired players' association and I've spoken to hundreds of ex-players and coaches. The shock and dismay as to what went down on that court is astounding. The lives of professional athletes and entertainers are so tenuous, anyway. To have that delicate balance thrown so far out of kilter is disgusting and senseless.

      The season was off to a great start, from the momentum of the China games to the excitement of new teams and emerging stars, Grant Hill's return to terrific rookies. Friday's events make the past NBA nonsense of Latrell Sprewell and Alonzo Mourning and Ron Artest's requests for time off all look miniscule. Now everyone in the NBA family is in a position of having to start all over.

      We're just getting started in terms of how this will be addressed, but I do know that in the leadership, commitment and vision of David Stern, all of us in the NBA have a real chance of making it work. The fans have to believe in the credibility of the product, believe in the validity of the competition and believe that they can have a safe and entertaining time.

      Now, so many more dangerous and needless questions are being asked. Those will be forced into the equation of the fans' decisions as to how to spend their time and money.

      It's staggering, and just so depressing. I've had an extremely difficult time personally trying to move beyond this. This is all of our lives. The responsibility of the participants toward the ongoing promotion of the game itself, and the business of the game, cannot be taken lightly. We need to reclaim the game, and taking that responsibility seriously is the best place to begin.
      F&^k Walton.......He talk's so much and say's nothing the whole time.....He was a big waste as a player....and an even bigger waste as a announcer....I really can't stand this big Dumb @$$!

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

        Bill Walton isn't even my favorite over-the-top announcer. Kevin Harlan is the man.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Walton: Punishment too light? (Typical Walton)

          Who else but Walton would use the word "abrogated"?

          It's pretty obvious when someone has purchased the "Verbal Advantage" set of tapes.

          Comment

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