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View Full Version : Wallace DID NOT call Artest to apologize



Shade
11-23-2004, 12:56 AM
That's because he's a gutless punk. He represents his city well in that respect.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 12:59 AM
That's because he's a gutless punk. He represents his city well in that respect.

Feeling's mutual, Shade.

By the same token, I;m goign to judge you by everything Ron Artest has ever done. I've never done anything to you, but you seem to think its ok to insult me.

Not that you were eve the picture of objectivity to begin with.

SoupIsGood
11-23-2004, 01:06 AM
Big Ben is still one of my favorites. I can't blame him for not liking Ronnie.

sweabs
11-23-2004, 01:07 AM
I used to have a lot more respect for Ben before this incident. But like many others - I've lost quite a bit.

NewType
11-23-2004, 01:19 AM
BTW, is there anyone else sick and tired of Pistons fans claiming the feeling is mutual?

Kstat, I respect your normal post. But you have NO IDEA, I repeat, NO FREAKING IDEA how we feel and the anger and hatred that we have. I even feel disgusted about myself being living in Michigan right now.

Trsut me, in one month all "uproared" Pistons fans would be laughing at this incident when they are at a bar talking about how great of a chance they have getting their fourth championship while all Indy fans are left with this void probably till the end of the season.

For less than a year, Pistons fans have given us nothing but reasons for hatred. So don't ever say the feeling is mutual.

Besides, unlike Ben, who is the icon, if not being whorshiped as God, of Detroit, nobody ever claims Artest represents Indiana.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 01:29 AM
Trsut me, in one month all "uproared" Pistons fans would be laughing at this incident when they are at a bar talking about how great of a chance they have getting their fourth championship while all Indy fans are left with this void probably till the end of the season.

...and if thats what you really think we think, then you have NO FREAKING IDEA how we feel, either. So, in fact, the feeling is mutual.


Besides, unlike Ben, who is the icon, if not being whorshiped as God, of Detroit, nobody ever claims Artest represents Indiana.

two points:

- First of all, Ben Wallace is STILL an Detroit Icon, I'm upset at what he did, but he's been a model citizen and player for his entire career. He gets a 2nd hcance here.

-As for Artest, considering many fo you are throwing DONNIE WALSH AND MARK JACKSON under the bus in support of Ron, I don't see how you could say he DOESN'T represent what you believe in. Especially sicne this isn't ron's 2nd chance. Its his 346347th chance.

Hoop
11-23-2004, 02:01 AM
I've only seen a few decent Piston Fans on the net, most are idiot trolls. Kstat is OK most of the time and a border line troll some of the time and was a real @ss during the playoffs.

The Detroit fans that have came down to Conseco for Pacers games have been the worse of the worst, they are horrible human beings.

I had respect for several Pistons players especially Ben, but he has been one of the biggest jerks from the beginning of this whole mess and he is continuing it, I now have zero respect for him.

NewType
11-23-2004, 02:10 AM
[quote]
-As for Artest, considering many fo you are throwing DONNIE WALSH AND MARK JACKSON under the bus in support of Ron, I don't see how you could say he DOESN'T represent what you believe in. Especially sicne this isn't ron's 2nd chance. Its his 346347th chance.

I believe the general concent is we don't condone what he did and he should be punished accordingly, but not excessively. What he did is not the Pacers organization nor the people of Indiana stands for. However, as he is one of our own, we will support him.

Do you remeber your stand on the Zach Randolph's brother shooting incident? You said that Zach shouldn't sell out his brother since they are family. He should advise his brother to turn himself in but not simply selling him out. This is the exact analogy here.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:14 AM
[quote]
-As for Artest, considering many fo you are throwing DONNIE WALSH AND MARK JACKSON under the bus in support of Ron, I don't see how you could say he DOESN'T represent what you believe in. Especially sicne this isn't ron's 2nd chance. Its his 346347th chance.

I believe the general concent is we don't condone what he did and he should be punished accordingly, but not excessively. What he did is not the Pacers organization nor the people of Indiana stands for. However, as he is one of our own, we will support him.

Do you remeber your stand on the Zach Randolph's brother shooting incident? You said that Zach shouldn't sell out his brother since they are family. He should advise his brother to turn himself in but not simply selling him out. This is the exact analogy here.


The thing is, the Police doesn't represent family.

Donnie Walsh and Mark Jackson do not represent "police." both are beloved symbols of the Pacers. By siding with one over the other, you are effectively choosing one family member over another.

NewType
11-23-2004, 02:28 AM
The thing is, the Police doesn't represent family.

Donnie Walsh and Mark Jackson do not represent "police." both are beloved symbols of the Pacers. By siding with one over the other, you are effectively choosing one family member over another.

What the heck are you talking about? I'm talking about the "Detroit uproar", not DW or Mark Jackson. As for DW, his statement was pretty much a neutral stand and being the top of the management, what else do you expect him to say? As far as I can see, he is not condemning Artest at this point.

As for Mark Jackson, he is an analyst with ESPN and ESPN has a business relationship with the league. Do you think he will come out and say anything to **** the league off? Don't you think ESPN will make sure their analysts not to do anything to upset its business partner? To challenge the league's decision is like Dell asking Microsoft not to put IE as a bundle. How silly is that?

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:36 AM
As for any fan that threw ANYTHING, or any Piston player that EVER tries to go into the stands to attacka fan and embarrass his team- they're going to be left out to dry. In no way will I support, defend, or condone, ANY of that.

Ben Wallace is one of my favorite Pistons of all time. And if he did what ARtest did in the stands at ANY time- I'm going to be the first one to run him out of town.

Ben knows he has 30,000 Pistons fans depending on him and 13 teamates counting on him.

If he were to go after a fan-over a measly cup of soda- I'd be the first one to turn my back on him. Because by going after a fan, and KNOWINGLY sacrificing his season in the name of pride, he has already effectively turned his back on me.

NewType
11-23-2004, 02:46 AM
...and if thats what you really think we think, then you have NO FREAKING IDEA how we feel, either. So, in fact, the feeling is mutual.


Don't tell me deep down inside, you don't feel any joy out of the incident that you guys have one of your biggest obstacles to the championship cleared and a gurantee ticket to the Final.

We have three of our most important players out, that's almost 60 points of our offense and the core of our defense. Our team was gutted. Have that ever happened to your team? Have you ever felt that one promisig season down the drain?

About the bad rap Detroit is getting, it's not the first time and it' not going to be the last time. Just has you said about Artest, it's the 346347th time for the D.

NewType
11-23-2004, 02:52 AM
As for any fan that threw ANYTHING, or any Piston player that EVER tries to go into the stands to attacka fan and embarrass his team- they're going to be left out to dry. In no way will I support, defend, or condone, ANY of that.

Ben Wallace is one of my favorite Pistons of all time. And if he did what ARtest did in the stands at ANY time- I'm going to be the first one to run him out of town.

Ben knows he has 30,000 Pistons fans depending on him and 13 teamates counting on him.

If he were to go after a fan-over a measly cup of soda- I'd be the first one to turn my back on him. Because by going after a fan, and KNOWINGLY sacrificing his season in the name of pride, he has already effectively turned his back on me.


I guess we have to agree to disagree. I don't claim myself being the moral guidance for anyone. I admit I'm human and I don't see myself being all and mighty. I can't say I wouldn't have done the same as Artest did as I wasn't in his situation. Because of that, I have no right to condemn someone's act. It easy to criticize others when you are not involved.

Also, I doubt the KNOWINGLY part is accurate. Before Stern's statement, the majority of the media (baring any extreme ones) were talking about 30-50 games max.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:55 AM
...and if thats what you really think we think, then you have NO FREAKING IDEA how we feel, either. So, in fact, the feeling is mutual.


Don't tell me deep down inside, you don't feel any joy out of the incident that you guys have one of your biggest obstacles to the championship cleared and a gurantee ticket to the Final.

We have three of our most important players out, that's almost 60 points of our offense and the core of our defense. Our team was gutted. Have that ever happened to your team? Have you ever felt that one promisig season down the drain?

About the bad rap Detroit is getting, it's not the first time and it' not going to be the last time. Just has you said about Artest, it's the 346347th time for the D.


No. None. I'm absolutely DISGUSTED that anybody would think I'd take any relief or please out of this, WHATSOEVER.

Also, from a basketball standpoint, the Pistons have no rivals left to drive them. To win championships, you always need a conference rival to drive you. The Pistons, especially coming off a championship, needed the Pacers to keep their killer instinct. I was happy as hell that Indiana embarrassed us friday night, because I knew it would light a fire under those guys that previous defeats really didn't.

As for if this has ever happened to me, every time I think of WIlliam Bedford, I feel the need to vomit. With him, I think we could have won two MORE championships. He was as good as almost any NBA center, and he was young. But he was such a headcase, he got himself banned from the NBA FOREVER.

I truly feel our 1991 season eneded without a title, because by that time William Bedford was supposed to be the dominant Center in the East, next to Patrick Ewing. That was the reason we never replensished our old roster with young talent. That spot was supposed to go to "Willie B," who absolutely stopmed over all our hopes.

Shade
11-23-2004, 12:26 PM
Feeling's mutual, Shade.

By the same token, I;m goign to judge you by everything Ron Artest has ever done. I've never done anything to you, but you seem to think its ok to insult me.

Not that you were eve the picture of objectivity to begin with.


The majority of Detroit's inhabitants are scum, Kstat. I have never attacked you personally, so quit trying to act like a martyr.

As for the Artest comparison, I'm also referring to our fans, who have never been anywhere near as boorish as yours were that night. If it was just the one guy who threw the beer -- fine, I can live with that. The fact that the fans dogpiled for no reaon just proves how scummy they really are.

Ben Wallace instigated everything, and led by example by throwing that towel. So in that respect, and the fact that he refuses to apologize, yes he is representing the city of Detroit. Hell, even your coach and CEO put the sole blame on our guys.

Reggie4Three
11-23-2004, 12:29 PM
Just ignore Kstat. He'll go away eventually.

canyoufeelit
11-23-2004, 02:25 PM
Let KStat troll all he wants. It'll just make the Pistons' eventual playoff elimination by the Miami Heat all the more delicious. The real shame is that it can't be us to do that. He can take pride in having his team win all of its championships due to injuries: In 89, Magic and Scott were hurt... In 2003, TJ Ford, Jason Kidd, Tinsley and O'Neal, and Malone were all hurt... And in 90, well, they played a Rick Adelman team. He's got to have some sort of head injury to coach the way he does, right?

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:30 PM
Let KStat troll all he wants. It'll just make the Pistons' eventual playoff elimination by the Miami Heat all the more delicious. The real shame is that it can't be us to do that. He can take pride in having his team win all of its championships due to injuries: In 89, Magic and Scott were hurt... In 2003, TJ Ford, Jason Kidd, Tinsley and O'Neal, and Malone were all hurt... And in 90, well, they played a Rick Adelman team. He's got to have some sort of head injury to coach the way he does, right?

Cant....find.....ROTFLMAO....smiley......

Um, take joy in it all you want, i supose. I waited 15 years for a 3rd championship, I can wait a few more for a fourth. Shoot, three titles and I'm still a young man? I'm spoiled as hell. Do you really think I'll be that upset if we don't win the title again? I'm a proud Pistons fan, wether you like it or not. I'm ashamed of my colleagues, but that doesn't mean I'm going to support my team any less.

This has certainly taken a lot of fun out of the season for me, but thats the breaks. I'm going to root and be proud of my team, win or lose.

canyoufeelit
11-23-2004, 02:35 PM
Just saying, Phil Jackson would give y'all an asterisk if he could. There is absolutely no way your guys repeat this season- and if they do - it's probably by accident, judging by history.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:38 PM
Just saying, Phil Jackson would give y'all an asterisk if he could. There is absolutely no way your guys repeat this season- and if they do - it's probably by accident, judging by history.

Phil Jackson give his mother an asterisk when there's a hair in her cooking......

No way we repeat? Darn.

I'm sure this is a lot like me going to a Lakers fan and putting them down by telling them that they have NO CHANCE of winning the title.....

I'm guessing I'd get the same reaction from him that you're getting from me.

Three titles? I'm already in dept to the Pistons for all they've given me.

If I complained now, I'd come off as a apoiled brat.

indygeezer
11-23-2004, 02:38 PM
Cant....find.....ROTFLMAO....smiley......

Um, take joy in it all you want, i supose. I waited 15 years for a 3rd championship, I can wait a few more for a fourth. Shoot, three titles and I'm still a young man? I'm spoiled as hell. Do you really think I'll be that upset if we don't win the title again? I'm a proud Pistons fan, wether you like it or not. I'm ashamed of my colleagues, but that doesn't mean I'm going to support my team any less.

This has certainly taken a lot of fun out of the season for me, but thats the breaks. I'm going to root and be proud of my team, win or lose.

Quite a change in tune from this time last year huh KSTAT??? Your were ready to slit your wrists then and become a Pacer fan. Ah well, hey it will all work out. As soon as Stern announces the added sanctions against the Pistons organization we Pacer fans will feel some vindication and ready to move on. Otherwise, you are our lightening rod. Take it with a thick skin and realize we are hurting.

Natston
11-23-2004, 02:40 PM
Just saying, Phil Jackson would give y'all an asterisk if he could. There is absolutely no way your guys repeat this season- and if they do - it's probably by accident, judging by history.

Phil Jackson puts an asterisk next to every team that wasn't being coached by him when they won the Finals...

Shade
11-23-2004, 02:41 PM
Quite a change in tune from this time last year huh KSTAT??? Your were ready to slit your wrists then and become a Pacer fan. Ah well, hey it will all work out. As soon as Stern announces the added sanctions against the Pistons organization we Pacer fans will feel some vindication and ready to move on. Otherwise, you are our lightening rod. Take it with a thick skin and realize we are hurting.

Must...resist...saying...OwNeD... :D

canyoufeelit
11-23-2004, 02:42 PM
Quite a change in tune from this time last year huh KSTAT??? Your were ready to slit your wrists then and become a Pacer fan. Ah well, hey it will all work out. As soon as Stern announces the added sanctions against the Pistons organization we Pacer fans will feel some vindication and ready to move on. Otherwise, you are our lightening rod. Take it with a thick skin and realize we are hurting.

Hey, don't give him good advice, I like trolling our resident troll :)

Kstat
11-23-2004, 02:45 PM
Quite a change in tune from this time last year huh KSTAT??? Your were ready to slit your wrists then and become a Pacer fan. Ah well, hey it will all work out. As soon as Stern announces the added sanctions against the Pistons organization we Pacer fans will feel some vindication and ready to move on. Otherwise, you are our lightening rod. Take it with a thick skin and realize we are hurting.

Um, I NEVER have been a Pacer fan. EVER. I simply conceeded that the Pacers, before the Pistons traded for Rasheed, were simply a better team.

I see now, that kind of humility was a mistake.

And if stern ever takes any sanctions on the Pistons, you can bet I won't take it out on every innocent Pacer fan I know, to make mself feel better. But, thats just me. Go ahead, take your best shots.

Shade
11-23-2004, 02:49 PM
Um, I NEVER have been a Pacer fan. EVER. I simply conceeded that the Pacers, before the Pistons traded for Rasheed, were simply a better team.

I see now, that kind of humility was a mistake.

And if stern ever takes any sanctions on the Pistons, you can bet I won't take it out on every innocent Pacer fan I know, to make mself feel better. But, thats just me. Go ahead, take your best shots.

Most of us are speaking in generalities, Kstat. You know that, but for some reason you seem to like being a martyr. :shrug:

Should we just say "The Pistons suck...except for Kstat. The Pistons fans suck...except for Kstat?" :confused:

Fool
11-23-2004, 02:54 PM
As soon as Stern announces the added sanctions against the Pistons organization we Pacer fans will feel some vindication and ready to move on. Otherwise, you are our lightening rod. Take it with a thick skin and realize we are hurting.


While I am not Kstat, I understand this and haven't commented on the multiple terrible threads posted in the last few days. I would just like you all to recall what you are doing and have done here (on this board) the next time you are looking down on the rest of the world's moral standards (something this place LOVES to do).

(This should be the only post I make till after Thanksgiving so "Happy Thanksgiving" to all of you.)

Shade
11-23-2004, 02:58 PM
While I am not Kstat, I understand this and haven't commented on the multiple terrible threads posted in the last few days. I would just like you all to recall what you are doing and have done here (on this board) the next time you are looking down on the rest of the world's moral standards (something this place LOVES to do).

(This should be the only post I make till after Thanksgiving so "Happy Thanksgiving" to all of you.)

All we want is fair treatment. We're not conding what the Pacers did, but we want fair punishment, and we want the others involved to be adequately punished as well. IMO, JO's and Ron's punishments are too harsh, while Jax's might be a little too light. But for Stern to allow things to get out of hand and then punish the victims when they do? That's the ultimate slap in the face in a long line of slaps in the face from that inept prick. :mad:

Shade
11-23-2004, 03:13 PM
Maybe Im just crazy, but Ill take any NBA title. I dont care if there is a astrick next to it, a naked man next to it, or a homeless man next to it.

We can all make excuses and say who should of or could have won, but I would take a "accidental" or "fluke" title any day.

Also, great post by Indygeezer

I've gotten to that point as well. I don't even care if we bring in Malone and Payton to do it anymore. I just want to stick it to that prick Stern any way I can, and the Pacers winning the title despite his best efforts to prevent it would be the ultimate "**** YOU!" :devil:

Coach
11-23-2004, 03:18 PM
KStat:
I have read many of your posts over the last year or so and I think that you have a good understanding of the game. I enjoy and appreciate your posts here as you give us an outside opinion of the pacers. I am not a huge supporter of Ron's and haven't been since the Isiah days. He should not have gone into the stands Friday but he is not the smartest decision maker on our team. You have to realize that there is a lot of frustration with the fans of the Pistons right now, and you are going to be the one that gets vented on. It is unfair that the actions of a fan led to the suspensions on the pacers team. For Ben not to take at least some responsibility for what happened does not make him look good. (And any pacer involved that doesn't take some responsibility for what happened does not make him look good). What should be fair? I don't know. But I would think that ANY piston fan that threw anything (even the ones tossing water on the pacers as they headed to the tunnel) should be PERMENANTLY banned from attending any NBA games for life. There is no room for that.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 04:18 PM
Most of us are speaking in generalities, Kstat. You know that, but for some reason you seem to like being a martyr. :shrug:

Should we just say "The Pistons suck...except for Kstat. The Pistons fans suck...except for Kstat?" :confused:

You should say that the Piston fans that threw beer were absolute scumbags....that's not very hard to do. Saying "Piston fans suck" is so general, I can't begin to explain.

There were 20,000 Piston fans friday night that conducted themselves with dignity and respect.Tis isn't about me. I've met hundreds of good piston fans who are good people, and would NEVER do this.

That's like me telling you, "The Pacers are jerks." Reggie Miller, Jamaal TInsley , David Harrison and Freddie Jones aren't jerks, but by saying that I'm grouping them in with Artest and Jackson.

Kstat
11-23-2004, 04:21 PM
KStat:
I have read many of your posts over the last year or so and I think that you have a good understanding of the game. I enjoy and appreciate your posts here as you give us an outside opinion of the pacers. I am not a huge supporter of Ron's and haven't been since the Isiah days. He should not have gone into the stands Friday but he is not the smartest decision maker on our team. You have to realize that there is a lot of frustration with the fans of the Pistons right now, and you are going to be the one that gets vented on. It is unfair that the actions of a fan led to the suspensions on the pacers team. For Ben not to take at least some responsibility for what happened does not make him look good. (And any pacer involved that doesn't take some responsibility for what happened does not make him look good). What should be fair? I don't know. But I would think that ANY piston fan that threw anything (even the ones tossing water on the pacers as they headed to the tunnel) should be PERMENANTLY banned from attending any NBA games for life. There is no room for that.


There are anywhere from 20-50 fans who are having their "piston fan" cards revoked right now. Its NOT EASY to identify everybody in an angry mob, but they're making progress. I hear about (5 of the beer-throwers have been positively identified.

If you want your pound of flesh from the fans, you'll get it soon enough.