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Professor S
07-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Via Mike Wells' Twitter account:

@MikeWellsNBA: The Pacers are matching Portland's 4-year, $58 million offer to Roy Hibbert, according to a source

(Mods feels free to delete, but I thought this deserved it's own thread)

MillerTime
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Great news.

Its a lot of money but big men are overpaid in this league.

Hes been a great team mate, hes done a lot for the community and hes getting a little better every season.

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:: dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::d ance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::da nce::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dan ce::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::danc e::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance ::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance: :dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:: dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::d ance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::da nce::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dan ce::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::danc e::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance ::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:

tmhall11
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
yes!... we better make a move or two before matching, though.

Bid on Brand, sign OJ, trade pick for Marshon Brooks... one of those would be a good thing to do before matching

Kstat
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
A no brainer decision, if true.

The Big Smooth
07-09-2012, 02:36 PM
Hib-Hib HooRoy!

trey
07-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Welcome back big fella!!!

90'sNBARocked
07-09-2012, 02:37 PM
damit

beat me to the bunch

Area 55 way to make it happen

you cant tell me all the love shown by this great group didnt help Roy feel good!

trey
07-09-2012, 02:39 PM
Now here's to hoping he keeps working hard and improving to show us he's worth that money.

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:39 PM
A no brainer decision, if true.

No kidding. Of course they are going to match. They have to. There isn't even a choice. I have not understood at all why people were so concerned about it.

ESutt7
07-09-2012, 02:39 PM
And we can finally calm down and worry about adding another scorer...Welcome back Roy!

Sparhawk
07-09-2012, 02:40 PM
If the Pacers match, does that mean that they have to work with the same deal that Portland gave or can they even it out a bit more (cause apparently Portland front loaded the contract)?

But yes, Pacerland rejoice!

DangerGranger3pointranger
07-09-2012, 02:40 PM
I literally flipped out when I heard the news. Roy is always improving and is one of the last well-rounded centers in my opinion. Great move by the Pacers.:dance:

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 02:41 PM
<img src="http://www.newoldschool.org/Welcome/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/the-very-best-of-the-success-kid-meme.jpg" />

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:41 PM
If the Pacers match, does that mean that they have to work with the same deal that Portland gave or can they even it out a bit more (cause apparently Portland front loaded the contract)?

But yes, Pacerland rejoice!

I hope it is front loaded.

Because we're not doing anything better this season with whatever additional cap space were to be had by evening it out.

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:41 PM
So happy to hear this, maybe less Roy threads now, but I am sure there will be a "did the Pacers overpay Roy" thread coming soon.... smh

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 02:41 PM
Good news...Pacers making a good decision... Hopefully, Roy isn't our entire off-season.

graphic-er
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
If the Pacers match, does that mean that they have to work with the same deal that Portland gave or can they even it out a bit more (cause apparently Portland front loaded the contract)?

But yes, Pacerland rejoice!

They have to match whatever Hibbert signs. They are free to try and negotiate their own deal in the mean time though.

diamonddave00
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
What is up with the report the 1st 2 years of the deal are front loaded at 19 million each? If so the Pacers have no cap room now.

Mackey_Rose
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
Thank Christ.

Why was this a seemingly difficult decision?

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
Welcome back, big fella. Hope you're still wanting to work hard and improve, because 12 and 9 isn't going to cut it on that contract!

MrHale
07-09-2012, 02:42 PM
was there any real doubt that he wouldn't?

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:43 PM
too bad he is already there though, if his flight got delayed, and Batum was on time, we might be able to save a couple of bucks, but oh well. lol

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:43 PM
So happy to hear this, maybe less Roy threads now, but I am sure there will be a "did the Pacers overpay Roy" thread coming soon.... smh

Obviously Roy is going to be overpaid. But the consequence of not re-signing him is significantly worse than what it will be for him to be somewhat overpaid.

graphic-er
07-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Let hope we don't see Hibbert come out with a hope they dont match statement.

J7F
07-09-2012, 02:43 PM
Yeah buddies! So happy to have Roy for at least 4 more!

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Let hope we don't see Hibbert come out with a hope they dont match statement.

Who cares? The ball isn't in his court.

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
What is up with the report the 1st 2 years of the deal are front loaded at 19 million each? If so the Pacers have no cap room now.
The Pacers don't have to match until July 14. They can negotiate and sign any free agents until then.

As for the front loaded-ness, I believe the extra money is just signing bonus money and won't count against the salary cap.

OlBlu
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Yes. It's like a store saying they ad match. He signed a deal with Portland and if Indiana matches that deal will be honored by the Pacers.

Does Roy have the ability to change that if the Pacers are offering a fifth year?

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
was there any real doubt that he wouldn't?

There shouldn't have been. This was a slam dunk.

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:45 PM
What is up with the report the 1st 2 years of the deal are front loaded at 19 million each? If so the Pacers have no cap room now.

I think they have to decrease by some percentage every year, do not think they can make a front loaded contract like that, so my guess is that it is false..

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
Does Roy have the ability to change that if the Pacers are offering a fifth year?

Yes, but only on the condition that he doesn't physically sign the offer sheet.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
The Pacers don't have to match until July 14. They can negotiate and sign any free agents until then.

As for the front loaded-ness, I believe the extra money is just signing bonus money and won't count against the salary cap.

It counts against the salary cap regardless.

J7F
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
Let hope we don't see Hibbert come out with a hope they dont match statement.

It would have happened by now... Definitely not in line with Roy's personality either...

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
Does Roy have the ability to change that if the Pacers are offering a fifth year?

I believe this can only happen if he does not sign the offer sheet for Portland, once he does that then it is set.

Mackey_Rose
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
There shouldn't have been. This was a slam dunk.

From all reports, the decision makers weren't nearly as sure.

Pacer Fan
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
What is up with the report the 1st 2 years of the deal are front loaded at 19 million each? If so the Pacers have no cap room now.

Now Pacers can trade Danny to have cap space. LoL!

Smits Happens
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
Does Roy have the ability to change that if the Pacers are offering a fifth year?

Whatever is on Portland's offer sheet is what his deal will be, whether it be with Indiana or Portland. There is no more negotiating with either team or anyone else at that point.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 02:46 PM
The Pacers don't have to match until July 14. They can negotiate and sign any free agents until then.

As for the front loaded-ness, I believe the extra money is just signing bonus money and won't count against the salary cap.

bonuses count verus the cap if they didn't every one would do them.


the bonus just counts over the 4 years like a base salary.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:47 PM
Good decision, but I never had a doubt.

I did adjust the thread title so people would know this is being reported.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
Thank Christ.

Why was this a seemingly difficult decision?


it wasn't

Speed
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
I really didn't realize I'd be this happy. Very cool, couldn't have happened to a nicer guy, now earn it.

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
It counts against the salary cap regardless.
Crap, well nevermind.

I guess if Simon wants to avoid luxury tax territory, this will might limit what the Pacers can offer free agents. Maybe that's why they were hesitant all this time.

billbradley
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
I wonder how Roy feels about it, he's going on the radio "Home of the Trail Blazers....


John Canzano: BFT radio show will be a must-listen I Spencer, Hibbert, Larry Miller. See you there 3-6p on @750thegame

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz209WfN3w1

Here's a link to stream their radio show...

http://tunein.com/radio/The-Game-750-s26496/

_The_Future_
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
Good news, now lets focus on OJ.

Speed
07-09-2012, 02:48 PM
Anyone monitoring Roys twitter account?

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:49 PM
Obviously Roy is going to be overpaid. But the consequence of not re-signing him is significantly worse than what it will be for him to be somewhat overpaid.

That is fine, I just don't feel like seeing the thread, lol, and really no one knows if it is a overpayment until the contract is near it's end.

dal9
07-09-2012, 02:49 PM
We're sure this isn't @MikeWelllsNBA or @MikeWellsMBA or something?

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Why are people surprised about this news? I expected them to match it all this time.

Ace E.Anderson
07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
What are the chances we try and sign somebody else BEFORE we match the offer sheet to Roy/re-sign G.hill? We still desperately need depth on the wings and in our frontcourt.

On the positive side however, AREA 55 LIVES ON!!

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 02:50 PM
Anyone monitoring Roys twitter account?

Took a look. Nothing so far.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
From all reports, the decision makers weren't nearly as sure.


Whose reports?

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
From all reports, the decision makers weren't nearly as sure.

Meh. Rain Man could see that there was only one option. Our front office might be stupid, and I think they are quite often, but they would have to be entirely incompetent, on every level, not to match this deal.

I still don't understand all the handwringing.

Inca Street
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120709/SPORTS/120709036/Indiana-Pacers-will-match-Portland-s-contract-offer-Roy-Hibbert?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|IndyStar.com

bballpacen
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
It counts against the salary cap regardless.

I believe that it wont all count this next year, but will still be spread out over the length of the contract...

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:51 PM
We're sure this isn't @MikeWelllsNBA or @MikeWellsMBA or something?

Yeah cause I don't follow that guy...

Steagles
07-09-2012, 02:52 PM
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BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 02:53 PM
On another note, this should certainly put to rest the argument that Simon won't spend.

PacersHomer
07-09-2012, 02:54 PM
Good job on not messing up, front office!

Really?
07-09-2012, 02:54 PM
Why are people surprised about this news? I expected them to match it all this time.

I wasn't, I always said the only time I would worry would be if the Pacers offered another big a decent contract, they didn't so I never really worried about it. But many felt he might, when listening to the thoughts of many sports writers who's projections are only a guess. That is why I stopped reading most of the Roy threads, it started to become a headache of sorts.

FrenchConnection
07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Anybody gonna listen to Roy's appearance on Portland radio? Could be interesting.

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Isn't it possible that now Roy doesn't sign the Blazers offer? Couldn't the Pacers just agree in principal with Roy to match the terms and then that gives them more flexibility to sign other FA's?

avoidingtheclowns
07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Noam Schiller
Totally want the Blazers to turn around and immediately offer Brook Lopez a max deal. Just screw everybody, ya know?
1:52 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/noamschiller/status/222402740461121536)

Nuntius
07-09-2012, 02:55 PM
I'm happy :happydanc:happydanc:happydanc

Kstat
07-09-2012, 02:56 PM
Isn't it possible that now Roy doesn't sign the Blazers offer? Couldn't the Pacers just agree in principal with Roy to match the terms and then that gives them more flexibility to sign other FA's?

No.

He still has to sign portland's offer, and the pacers still have to file a notification to the NBA that they will match it.

If Roy doesn't sign the offer sheet, Portland will cut all ties with him and indiana will be able to low ball him with whatever contract offer they want.

BRushWithDeath
07-09-2012, 02:57 PM
Isn't it possible that now Roy doesn't sign the Blazers offer? Couldn't the Pacers just agree in principal with Roy to match the terms and then that gives them more flexibility to sign other FA's?

No. Roy is signing the sheet. End of story.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 02:57 PM
Can't wait for a "Roy's overpaid!" thread after every bad game

idioteque
07-09-2012, 02:58 PM
Anybody gonna listen to Roy's appearance on Portland radio? Could be interesting.

Listening right now, I am kind of suspicious about it, I mean unless he had something substantial to say why go on and shoot the breeze with a fanbase you'll never play for?

CableKC
07-09-2012, 02:58 PM
What I don't get is why the Pacers FO didn't wait to leak this until Saturday.

Other than really screwing with us here on PD....I am guessing that deciding not to formally announce that Hibbert would be matched....even to Hibbert himself...wouldn't have prevented the Pacers FO from making any other moves or negotiations. The only thing I can think of is keeping Kaman in a holding pattern until Saturday :shrug:

As TBird and many of us here have thought.....my preference would have been for the Pacers FO to "hem and haw" for another 6 days and really screw with the one Team that tried to pilfer one of our RFAs.

bballpacen
07-09-2012, 02:59 PM
Can't wait for a "Roy's overpaid!" thread after every bad game
Better than the unaviodable threads saying how we should have matched after every big game Roy had as a Blazer....

idioteque
07-09-2012, 02:59 PM
They are just talking about Mike Wells coming on Portland radio, not Hibbert, at least at this point.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:00 PM
Better than the unaviodable threads saying how we should have matched after every big game Roy had as a Blazer....
Well that's certainly true

CableKC
07-09-2012, 03:01 PM
Listening right now, I am kind of suspicious about it, I mean unless he had something substantial to say why go on and shoot the breeze with a fanbase you'll never play for?
Cuz Hibbert is still a nice guy and the Blazers fans gets to see what they will miss out on?

Any PR is good PR :shrug:

FrenchConnection
07-09-2012, 03:01 PM
What I don't get is why the Pacers FO didn't wait to leak this until Saturday.

Other than really screwing with us here on PD....I am guessing that deciding not to formally announce that Hibbert would be matched....even to Hibbert himself...wouldn't have prevented the Pacers FO from making any other moves or negotiations. The only thing I can think of is keeping Kaman in a holding pattern until Saturday :shrug:

As TBird and many of us here have thought.....my preference would have been for the Pacers FO to "hem and haw" for another 6 days and really screw with the one Team that tried to pilfer one of our RFAs.

The only thing that I can think of is that Wells' source is Roy himself. It might be a good idea to let him know, just for public relations reasons.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 03:01 PM
They are just talking about Mike Wells coming on Portland radio, not Hibbert, at least at this point.

listening to 750 the game in Portland Wells is about to be on next segment I listen on my Iphone with the Tune in app.

idioteque
07-09-2012, 03:02 PM
Wells on right now

idioteque
07-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Wells: affirmed the tweet, talking about the importance of team continuity, importance of Hibbert and how he would be hard to replace

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:03 PM
John Canzano's a columnist for The Oregonian newspaper

https://twitter.com/JohnCanzanoBFT/status/222379776923549696

Blazers offer to Hibbert is "so front loaded with money" that all are taking this seriously, source said. Pacers can still match.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Roy Hibbert is overpaid!!!!!1111111111111111

Nuntius
07-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Listening right now, I am kind of suspicious about it, I mean unless he had something substantial to say why go on and shoot the breeze with a fanbase you'll never play for?

Chances are that he was not aware that the Pacers would match the offer.

billbradley
07-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Wells talked to Roy.

idioteque
07-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Roy has been made aware Pacers are matching, Wells says Roy will "definitely" be back.

presto123
07-09-2012, 03:06 PM
The whole league is overpaid. Roy is over-overpaid:)

PacerPride33
07-09-2012, 03:06 PM
Still have enough money for mayo?

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:08 PM
Well I can definently see D. Jones being traded for cap space, and if the Pacers feel frisky trading Danny for a lower cap number as well. They definently wouldn't be able to do anything else this summer signing Hill and Hibbert. (at 19 mill for first 2 years)

The only thing the Pacers can pray for if they want to spend more this summer is for Portland to pull their offer knowing the Pacers will match and focus on Batum/Lopez, but I'm almost positive that won't happen.

The last 2 years of Hibbert will be nice, (around 10 mill a year if I got the numbers right) and just in time for Paul to get his new contract.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:08 PM
Roy is signing that sheet as quickly as possible so the Pacers can match in time with our other moves IMO. Makes sense allows us to play out on our place, would guess we already have a deal with one of the bench guards we'd be interested in.

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 03:08 PM
Still have enough money for mayo?


Now they don't have enough money for Miracle Whip

Kstat
07-09-2012, 03:09 PM
Still have enough money for mayo?

If my math is right, the Pacers will be over the cap after re-signing Hill and Hibbert, so they'll have the mid-level to spend, which may or may not be enough to get Mayo.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:10 PM
If my math is right, the Pacers will be over the cap after re-signing Hill and Hibbert, so they'll have the mid-level to spend, which may or may not be enough to get Mayo.

Couldn't Pacers sign Mayo before matching Hibbert and re-signing Hill?

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Couldn't Pacers sign Mayo before matching Hibbert and re-signing Hill?

That isn't possible Hibbert is signing his sheet at 12:01. Like Kstat says above I think his cap hold instantly goes to his new deal(im not sure how that works though) Hill would wait but there is no reason for Hibbert he will sign right away and for good reason.

Kstat
07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
Couldn't Pacers sign Mayo before matching Hibbert and re-signing Hill?

I'm never %100 sure about this, but I'm pretty sure Roy's cap hold is replaced by year 1 of his offer sheet once he signs it.

I think waiting to match it would be meaningless. The cap hit is the same either way.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
If my math is right, the Pacers will be over the cap after re-signing Hill and Hibbert, so they'll have the mid-level to spend, which may or may not be enough to get Mayo.

Well the Pacers can try and sign Mayo to a contract before matching Hibbert to sneak their way before matching the big number. Mayo may decide to wait for Phoenix and Houston though and then the Pacers wouldn't be able to get him.

Damnit beaten by TJ.

presto123
07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
Now they don't have enough money for Miracle Whip

Don't have enough for Sunny D either.

Hypnotiq
07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
So we cant add anyone?

great :rolleyes:

avoidingtheclowns
07-09-2012, 03:12 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

DGPR
07-09-2012, 03:13 PM
Technically at this very moment we only have Hill and Hibberts cap holds against us, so we can afford to pay Mayo still.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:13 PM
Don't the Pacers have about $7 million in cap with Roy's offer but before Hill signs? So even if Roy's offer sheet holds the cap, Hill could wait and you could sweeten Mayo's pot a little bit.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:13 PM
That isn't possible Hibbert is signing his sheet at 12:01 Hill would wait but there is no reason for Hibbert he will sign right away and for good reason.

They have 3 days to match the offer sheet on Hibbert, they could wait till the last minute to match it I would assume.

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 03:13 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

That would indicate he isn't going to sign it? Interesting development.

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 03:14 PM
So we cant add anyone?

great :rolleyes:

Yes we can ad a bench player.

PacerFan31
07-09-2012, 03:14 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

That's even better, letting him know we will match if we have to, but giving us the flexibility to sign another piece as well.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:14 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

Weird

billbradley
07-09-2012, 03:14 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

So WAIT A MINUTE, does that mean Roy ended up not signing the offer sheet like or broke the verbal agreement to speak with the Pacers?

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Technically at this very moment we only have Hill and Hibberts cap holds against us, so we can afford to pay Mayo still.
This. And their cap holds do not change until the contracts are signed.

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

So, what does this mean!? Could it be? Nooooooo... not possible

Speed
07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
It makes sense to not have him sign it and go through all of the mathcing etc. It's better for Portland too, so they can go after a lesser player, now. :)

Mac_Daddy
07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)

Maybe my POV is shot... But I think giving the exact terms as the other is the very definition of a "match."

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:15 PM
No. Roy is signing the sheet. End of story.

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.

I thought if the sheet was signed the Pacers had to match? Sounds like maybe Roy isn't "signing the sheet."

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
TRAID?

Speed
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
So, if its not a match, but a separate contract, as DA tweeted, they still have that money available, minus the cap holds, I would guess. Who knows, though.

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
David Aldridge has a slightly different take:

https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992



Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.


If true, that means Roy isn't signing Portland's offer sheet after all (hope he hurries back from Portland lol), but signing a new deal with the Pacers.

I know this is beating a dead horse, but at least it validated my view that Roy didn't HAVE to sign Portland's offer sheet :)

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
hmmm...


David Aldridge
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.
2:15 PM - 9 Jul 12 (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992)
Ah...
So if the Pacers have agreed to give Hibbert the same thing that Portland was offering and Hibbert's not going to sign Portland's offer sheet, that gives the Pacers much more time to go out and get free agents without Hibbert's deal hampering them.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:16 PM
Maybe they can get the cap hold a little lower the first 2 years, and give him that 5th year, who knows, but an interesting development regardless, I would say Roy would have definently burned his bridge with Portland if he doesnt sign offer sheet.

NM I forgot they gave the 5 year deal to Hill

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:17 PM
So WAIT A MINUTE, does that mean Roy ended up not signing the offer sheet like or broke the verbal agreement to speak with the Pacers?

Noooi... you think that too? Fall has just lost all credibility in the unbalanced... he will never get another deal for another client.../green

Since86
07-09-2012, 03:17 PM
So WAIT A MINUTE, does that mean Roy ended up not signing the offer sheet like or broke the verbal agreement to speak with the Pacers?

I hope not. I think the penalty for breaking a verbal agreement, since it cannot be done, is instant death and removal from all history books.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 03:17 PM
They have 3 days to match the offer sheet on Hibbert, they could wait till the last minute to match it I would assume.

as soon as he signs at 12:01 with Portland the cap hold would move from 7m to whatever his first year salary would be.

So it would do no good waiting.(as I understandd it I could be wrong and I cant find if it is true either way)

But this is strange if he really isnt gonna sign the sheet never heard of that after an agreement was in place.

FrenchConnection
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
Maybe my POV is shot... But I think giving the exact terms as the other is the very definition of a "match."

My understanding is that if he doesn't actually sign the offer sheet, his cap hold remains much lower so that the team can sign other players before having him sign his contract. He gets the same money, but gets to play on a better team in the process.

Speed
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
Portland doesn't want to go through the whole signing and losing him, it locks up their money in the process as well. If they still want to do it, it hurts them, just as much, right?

Pacerized
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
This is great news. Now let's get something done in free agency to improve this team and not just stand still while there's time.
FORGET MAYO or any other wing players. None of them are beyond mediocre and won't help this team.
We need a starting pg first but that's not happening.
We need an impact big man much more then we do another wing.
Sign Kaman or Humphries while we can.

diamonddave00
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
So if not technically a match - Roy hypothecially could wait to re-sign with the Pacers. Giving them time to sign another free agent first , since no pen meets paper in Portland , means no rush to complete it.

But will Roy risk even waiting one minute to sign 4 yr 58 mil deal?

Unclebuck
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Targaflorio
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
It makes sense to not have him sign it and go through all of the mathcing etc. It's better for Portland too, so they can go after a lesser player, now. :)

I agree. I wonder if upon hearing the Pacers will match, the Blazers decided not to give him the offer sheet so they don't have to waste potentially 3 days waiting for the Pacers to match. Gives them flexibility to go after someone else quickly without having money tied up in Hibbert's offer sheet.

Larry Staverman
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
I'm never %100 sure about this, but I'm pretty sure Roy's cap hold is replaced by year 1 of his offer sheet once he signs it.

I think waiting to match it would be meaningless. The cap hit is the same either way.


Don't have the tweet but Larry Coon said last week that cap hold was good until a team actually matches the offer sheet not when player signs it.

tmhall11
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
If hibbert were to sign right away, the pacers still have 3 days to match. Still time and cap space to sign an UFA.

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
That would indicate he isn't going to sign it? Interesting development.

Means 1 of 2 things IMO.

1. Roy wanted to stay all along and now wants to help us secure another piece.

2. Sign and trade on its way.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
I don't know if I want this Roy Hibbert fellow back now, he doesn't seem like he can be trusted.

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
Time for know it all PDers to start spinning

Aw Heck
07-09-2012, 03:19 PM
So if not technically a match - Roy hypothecially could wait to re-sign with the Pacers. Giving them time to sign another free agent first , since no pen meets paper in Portland , means no rush to complete it.

But will Roy risk even waiting one minute to sign 4 yr 58 mil deal?
If the Pacers screw over Roy and give him something lower than what they agreed to, Roy will probably go and sign with another team under the cap out of spite -- and I wouldn't blame him.

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! <--- 58 for each million on the contract. :D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/f_aM6nRXSCs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

CableKC
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
I am confused again.....

Can someone tweet Wells and ask if he has any insight into why the Pacers FO didn't wait until Saturday before leaking the info to him?

I'm curious as to why the Pacers FO didn't leave the Blazers FO hanging until the end of the week as a "screw you for going after our RFA".

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
as soon as he signs at 12:01 with Portland the cap hold would move from 7m to whatever his first year salary would be.

This isn't true. The cap hold is unchanged until we officially match it.

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
It's beginning to look like Roy and the Pritchard just played Paul Allen! That would be an awesome ending to this if that happens.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Not as far as dollars are concerned, but it does allow them to sign an O.J. Mayo or somebody before resigning Roy if they choose.

Speed
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Maybe they can wait to actually sign him and the cap hold would be the number counted against the salary cap, not the new contract amount. If it even works that way. If so, it would allow them to sign a FA, then sign Roy and Hill for that matter.

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
Could it be possible that they are signing him to 5 instead of 4 so they pay him a lower salary?

Tom White
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
<img src="http://www.newoldschool.org/Welcome/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/the-very-best-of-the-success-kid-meme.jpg" />

That's either "Success" or the kid is really constipated!

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Yes, I believe we don't have the cap hold of the new contract in that situation.

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
as soon as he signs at 12:01 with Portland the cap hold would move from 7m to whatever his first year salary would be.

So it would do no good waiting.(as I understandd it I could be wrong and I cant find if it is true either way)

But this is strange if he really isnt gonna sign the sheet never heard of that after an agreement was in place.

Exact same thing happened last year with Marc Gasol. Rockets gave him a max offer sheet, but he signed a new deal wth Memphis instead.

PacersHomer
07-09-2012, 03:20 PM
I don't know if I want this Roy Hibbert fellow back now, he doesn't seem like he can be trusted.

TRADE HIBBERT

RichardHawes
07-09-2012, 03:21 PM
That's either "Success" or the kid is really constipated!



LOL He looks exactly like Patton Oswald

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:21 PM
Wait, wait, wait...did we just get our first Pritch-slap? Have Portland tie up all their resources on Roy only to have him bail at the last second back to Indy?

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
Could it be possible that they are signing him to 5 instead of 4 so they pay him a lower salary?

That would eb really lucky, but I doubt that's the case.

The Sleeze
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
By not signing the offer sheet it allows him to be traded to Portland in the near future, where as signing it and then being matched would have prevented that for 4 years.

:stirthepo

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PW_MRXW7E8g/S0OH4Y-ftlI/AAAAAAAAAaA/CQW7j6nzrDg/s400/confused.jpg

Really?
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
If my math is right, the Pacers will be over the cap after re-signing Hill and Hibbert, so they'll have the mid-level to spend, which may or may not be enough to get Mayo.

It won't be, he already turned down a MLE....

Speed
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
This thread is blowing up, love it.

pacergod2
07-09-2012, 03:22 PM
He's doing what is in the best interest of the Pacers, because it technically frees our cap space. We will wait to sign Hill and Hibbert so we can use the other $10M in space.

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Could it be possible that they are signing him to 5 instead of 4 so they pay him a lower salary?

I sure hoped that would happen, but neither Wells nor Aldridge has indicated that's in the works.

billbradley
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
I hope not. I think the penalty for breaking a verbal agreement, since it cannot be done, is instant death and removal from all history books.

Not only that, according to kstat it's not even possible, ever, in any circumstance, to break a verbal agreement.

This entire story is a twisted joke.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Wait, wait, wait...did we just get our first Pritch-slap? Have Portland tie up all their resources on Roy only to have him bail at the last second back to Indy?

We need a Pritch-slap pic/gif cause it may be needed a few more times.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Let's sign Allen Iverson!

Slick Pinkham
07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Yes-- we retain his current cap hold until he signs with us, rather than Portland's year 1 figure. This lets us have more cap room to make another signing, and THEN sign Roy. That means we could exceed the cap more in the final analysis, but stay under the LT level.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
By not signing the offer sheet it allows him to be traded to Portland in the near future, where as signing it and then being matched would have prevented that for 4 years.

:stirthepo
...not sure it's the full length of the contract, but either way it's certainly true that a S&T's far easier now. Which is the scary part.

pacergod2
07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
That's either "Success" or the kid is really constipated!

I'd hate to be walking behind him on the beach!

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Maybe they can wait to actually sign him and the cap hold would be the number counted against the salary cap, not the new contract amount. If it even works that way. If so, it would allow them to sign a FA, then sign Roy and Hill for that matter.

I thought this is how it worked. By him not signing the sheet and allowing the Pacers to sign someone else first that allows the "Bird Rights" to go into effect for Roy and gives more cap flexibility.

purdue101
07-09-2012, 03:25 PM
If my math is right, the Pacers will be over the cap after re-signing Hill and Hibbert, so they'll have the mid-level to spend, which may or may not be enough to get Mayo.

We will still have room under the cap to make a deal. The commitments/terms to Hibbert and Hill are agreed to, however we won't finalize (submit the paperwork) until after we make our other intended FA moves using our cap space. We can then go over the cap when we finalize Hibbert/Hill via bird rights. Just b/c the media says a deal is done, doesn't mean it's signed, sealed, delivered and against our cap that very day. Teams handshake the deal and play/time the system to their advantage (as they should).

IMO the Pacers will tell Hibbert they will match but will wait the full 3 days to do so. HIll will likely get done the same time (around 7/14). Pacers now have 5 days to use their cap to get guys like Mayo, Brand, etc., and then go over the cap for Hibbert/Hill. My fear is that Mayo is going to hold out on PHX in hopes that NO matches and they throw big money his way.

Lance George
07-09-2012, 03:25 PM
That's even better, letting him know we will match if we have to, but giving us the flexibility to sign another piece as well.

What it suggests to me is that we have free-agent plans that exceed the MLE. Whether that's one fairly big signing, or multiple, smaller signings, we'll have to wait and see.

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Wait, wait, wait...did we just get our first Pritch-slap? Have Portland tie up all their resources on Roy only to have him bail at the last second back to Indy?

Actually, it's the opposite. Now that Roy isn't signing with them at all, Portland's money doesn't get tied up and they're free to pursue other FAs.


By not signing the offer sheet it allows him to be traded to Portland in the near future, where as signing it and then being matched would have prevented that for 4 years.

:stirthepo

Nah, the no trade rule is only for one year.

Cactus Jax
07-09-2012, 03:26 PM
I would lmao if they signed and traded Roy. (in a sad/bad way) All this optimism just crushed.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:26 PM
Yeah, but at this point you could argue Portland is well behind other teams in talking to FAs.

Also, SI saying Roy had at least 3 teams offer him the max?

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:27 PM
...not sure it's the full length of the contract, but either way it's certainly true that a S&T's far easier now. Which is the scary part.

Don't worry about it too much. I doubt Hibbert would agree to put off Portland's offer sheet if he was being S&T'd.

The Sleeze
07-09-2012, 03:28 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PW_MRXW7E8g/S0OH4Y-ftlI/AAAAAAAAAaA/CQW7j6nzrDg/s400/confused.jpg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rd1rXB0rGiE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Smits Happens
07-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Let's sign Allen Iverson!

Do you really think that's the Answer?

Naptown_Seth
07-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Via Mike Wells' Twitter account:

@MikeWellsNBA: The Pacers are matching Portland's 4-year, $58 million offer to Roy Hibbert, according to a source

(Mods feels free to delete, but I thought this deserved it's own thread)
Is that like a 90% chance Mike or what? ;)

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
No.

He still has to sign portland's offer, and the pacers still have to file a notification to the NBA that they will match it.

If Roy doesn't sign the offer sheet, Portland will cut all ties with him and indiana will be able to low ball him with whatever contract offer they want.

David Aldridge @daldridgetnt
Indy, per source, will give Hibbert the same terms that Portland was ready to give in offer sheet, & so won't technically "match" the sheet.

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
Not only that, according to kstat it's not even possible, ever, in any circumstance, to break a verbal agreement.

This entire story is a twisted joke.

Amen Bill... Egg looks pretty nice... when its on peoples face...

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
Don't worry about it too much. I doubt Hibbert would agree to put off Portland's offer sheet if he was being S&T'd.

That and apparently Wells got it straight from Roy's mouth. If a S&T was going down Roy'd obviously know.

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
Do you really think that's the Answer?

Heck yeah! And let's get Vin Baker to back up D-West! Spend them dolla bills!

troyc11a
07-09-2012, 03:29 PM
I would lmao if they signed and traded Roy. (in a sad/bad way) All this optimism just crushed.

I am not optimistic about paying an average player $14mill a year. Those kind of deals should go to players who have produced instead of players you hope might one day produce. Roy is an average player and now he is grossly overpaid. This was not a good situation for the Pacers to be in.

Really?
07-09-2012, 03:31 PM
Is there some advantage to the Pacers in Roy not signing the offer sheet?

Yes, a couple.

The one that intrigues me the most is that if it ends up being the same amount but not necessarily the same deal, that puts us in a much better situation for now and the years to come. It allows us to structure the contract with Roy so that we can pay him in a way that will allow us to target other FA's or sign back our guys in the future and not be locked up financially with a crazy contract.

And it seems like if Roy wants this team to continue getting better then he would do it.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:32 PM
Heck yeah! And let's get Vin Baker to back up D-West! Spend them dolla bills!
Baker'd never come here. No booze on Sundays.

Tom White
07-09-2012, 03:32 PM
No.

He still has to sign portland's offer, and the pacers still have to file a notification to the NBA that they will match it.

If Roy doesn't sign the offer sheet, Portland will cut all ties with him and indiana will be able to low ball him with whatever contract offer they want.

This must be why the Pacers let go of Morway. To make sure Roy's paperwork is filed on time. :laugh::D

RichardHawes
07-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Baker'd never come here. No booze on Sundays.



Maybe we can get Keon Clark as well...

The Sleeze
07-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Nah, the no trade rule is only for one year.

Once a player is matched he can't be traded to the team offering the contract for the duration of the contract (4 years), he actually can be traded in the first year, but the player gets veto power so he is able to turn down trades he doesn't like.

Here is a link to the explanation (first Q&A):
http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/07/04/hornets-cba-faq-part-two-buyers-remorse-gordon-sign-then-trade-cap-space-nick-collison/

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:34 PM
Maybe the Pacers are unloading Tyler :laugh:

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
It sounds like the Magic, Nets and Cavaliers have found a fourth team to facilitate their potential blockbuster deal.

tadscout
07-09-2012, 03:34 PM
He's doing what is in the best interest of the Pacers, because it technically frees our cap space. We will wait to sign Hill and Hibbert so we can use the other $10M in space.

This ^

We can wait to sign Hill and Hibbert to their deals till we are done using our cap space. Could be a couple day wait for them or 2 weeks.

Slick Pinkham
07-09-2012, 03:34 PM
So.... Eric Gordon does something similar and doesn't immediately sign his sheet, but tells NO that he won't play there, and he asks for a sign-n-trade to either Phx or Ind...

:stirthepo

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:34 PM
Maybe my POV is shot... But I think giving the exact terms as the other is the very definition of a "match."

Nope, it's an independent contract that has the same years & money; matching would only be Roy signing Portland's specific contract, and then Indiana saying, "We match, he's staying here," and it then becomes our contract. This is different.

Tom White
07-09-2012, 03:34 PM
Listening right now, I am kind of suspicious about it, I mean unless he had something substantial to say why go on and shoot the breeze with a fanbase you'll never play for?

Because he had already told them he would make an appearance? Just keeping his word to them?

OlBlu
07-09-2012, 03:35 PM
I am not optimistic about paying an average player $14mill a year. Those kind of deals should go to players who have produced instead of players you hope might one day produce. Roy is an average player and now he is grossly overpaid. This was not a good situation for the Pacers to be in.

Roy may be an "average player" but he is not an average 7'3" center. He is in top ten in the NBA in that regard so he is not overpaid. He is being paid his "market" value. Get over it.....:cool:

spazzxb
07-09-2012, 03:36 PM
So happy to hear this, maybe less Roy threads now, but I am sure there will be a "did the Pacers overpay Roy" thread coming soon.... smh

Thats up to Roy. I wouldn't debate it now. There is no way to know if he earns it or not until we see how he develops and produces. He needs to continue to improve every year.

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 03:36 PM
Maybe the Pacers are unloading Tyler :laugh:

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
It sounds like the Magic, Nets and Cavaliers have found a fourth team to facilitate their potential blockbuster deal.

That may not be as crazy as some would think. Tyler is an expiring, exactly what the Cavs are looking for.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:36 PM
Watch, Plumlee's going to go put up 20/10 here in an hour and half or so and this is magically going to be a great offseason all of a sudden.

Really?
07-09-2012, 03:37 PM
Maybe the Pacers are unloading Tyler :laugh:

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA
It sounds like the Magic, Nets and Cavaliers have found a fourth team to facilitate their potential blockbuster deal.

Sounds good but this should be in a different thread...

Trader Joe
07-09-2012, 03:37 PM
Watch, Plumlee's going to go put up 20/10 here in an hour and half or so and this is magically going to be a great offseason all of a sudden.

And then we will find a way to combine Eric Gordon and Paul George into the best shooting guard in the NBA through DNA synthesis.

diamonddave00
07-09-2012, 03:37 PM
If the contract is 19 mil a season for the first 2 seasons he'll be grossly over paid

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
That may not be as crazy as some would think. Tyler is an expiring, exactly what the Cavs are looking for.

I was about 90% kidding but in the back of my mind I knew there was a possibility. Something is going on - the timing of cutting AJ and the announcement of the match to Hibbert are not coincidental imho.

pacers27
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Just posted by Hollinger:

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

Tom White
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Now they don't have enough money for Miracle Whip

That has to be your best post in a long time. No offense to your other postings, just that this one is so funny!

Really?
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Thats up to Roy. I wouldn't debate it now. There is no way to know if he earns it or not until we see how he develops and produces. He needs to continue to improve every year.

Yup, that is what I feel, we will not know if it is a over-payment until near the end of his contract...

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
Could it be possible that they are signing him to 5 instead of 4 so they pay him a lower salary?

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

:cool:

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:38 PM
That's either "Success" or the kid is really constipated!

I think that face means he just took care of that particular problem.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 03:39 PM
Just posted by Hollinger:

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

so which is it?? If he signed wit POR would the cap hold jump or not?? This whole situation has me so confused.

Day-V
07-09-2012, 03:39 PM
<object width="640" height="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3GwjfUFyY6M?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3GwjfUFyY6M?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="640" height="480" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:40 PM
If the contract is 19 mil a season for the first 2 seasons he'll be grossly over paid

Couldn't front loading be a benefit for the team though? We have room the next 2 years to absorb a hit. After that PG's contract will be up and hopefully he will be a max type player.

wintermute
07-09-2012, 03:40 PM
Once a player is matched he can't be traded to the team offering the contract for the duration of the contract (4 years), he actually can be traded in the first year, but the player gets veto power so he is able to turn down trades he doesn't like.

Here is a link to the explanation (first Q&A):
http://www.hornets247.com/blog/2012/07/04/hornets-cba-faq-part-two-buyers-remorse-gordon-sign-then-trade-cap-space-nick-collison/

Interesting. It's reported a little differently on Larry Coon's FAQ:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q43


If the team matches an offer sheet and retains their free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to an offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction

Same detail on requiring player's consent on first year, but I read this as saying that the matched player can't be traded to the offer sheet team for one year. But I guess if you parse the sentence differently, you can take it as "for one year they cannot trade him without his consent" + "cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to an offer sheet".

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:41 PM
so which is it?? If he signed wit POR would the cap hold jump or not?? This whole situation has me so confused.

If Hibbert waits - he gets a 5th year and the Pacers get time to sign FA's.

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:41 PM
He's doing what is in the best interest of the Pacers, because it technically frees our cap space. We will wait to sign Hill and Hibbert so we can use the other $10M in space.

We won't use all of it. Gotta look ahead to make sure the books are bearable in the coming seasons. But I could see them spending 6 or 7 of it.

Since86
07-09-2012, 03:43 PM
John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

:cool:

Hollinger says nothing about lowering the salary, because Roy wouldn't do that. If he's going to get that 5th year, he's going to get paid for it with the raises just like the first 4 years. It won't save the Pacers any $$, atleast over the life of this contract.

vnzla81
07-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Hollinger says nothing about lowering the salary, because Roy wouldn't do that. If he's going to get that 5th year, he's going to get paid for it with the raises just like the first 4 years. It won't save the Pacers any $$, atleast over the life of this contract.

We don't know that yet.

ScrewTheHeat
07-09-2012, 03:45 PM
New member here, but I just gotta say this is a great move!


But I am somewhat confused about why it took as long as it did. Should have been a no-brainer.

Gamble1
07-09-2012, 03:45 PM
John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

:cool:
I thought we are only allowed one 5 year contract or are we allowed only one 5 year Max contract. Seems to conflict with Hills contract.

pacer4ever
07-09-2012, 03:45 PM
If Hibbert waits - he gets a 5th year and the Pacers get time to sign FA's.

we have had almost 2 weeks to sign guys how long is Hibbert gonna wait a month or two :laugh:


3 days before matching would of gave us time to sign someone as well. I guess I just don't get if Hibbert had an agreement to sign with POR why he would ever break his word. Now if they never agreed than I get it but from all reports he had agreed.

Tom White
07-09-2012, 03:46 PM
David Aldridge has a slightly different take:

https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt/status/222408589359316992



If true, that means Roy isn't signing Portland's offer sheet after all (hope he hurries back from Portland lol), but signing a new deal with the Pacers.

I know this is beating a dead horse, but at least it validated my view that Roy didn't HAVE to sign Portland's offer sheet :)

Possibly, the only thing Roy signs in Portland is a note to Paul Allen saying "Dear Paul, you've just been Pritch-slapped!"

Since86
07-09-2012, 03:46 PM
We don't know that yet.

Sure we do. If Roy wanted to play for the Pacers for less, he would have continued negotiating with the Pacers, instead of getting a deal else where and forcing their hand to pony up to the level that he wants.

tadscout
07-09-2012, 03:46 PM
We won't use all of it. Gotta look ahead to make sure the books are bearable in the coming seasons. But I could see them spending 6 or 7 of it.

We do have a potential of 20 mil coming of the books (potential in ie of renouncing our RFA (DC, Hans, Pendergraph), and letting West and Jones walk)... Obviously we will keep some those players (like maybe west for 7-8 mil)... but we do have wiggle room if it is needed.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:46 PM
so which is it?? If he signed wit POR would the cap hold jump or not?? This whole situation has me so confused.

No, it wouldn't. If he signed with Portland we'd only have the time between the 11th and 14th to use remaining cap. Doing it this way means we have basically until opening day, however long Roy's cool with waiting.

Really?
07-09-2012, 03:47 PM
so which is it?? If he signed wit POR would the cap hold jump or not?? This whole situation has me so confused.

No need to even worry about Portland any more, just think PACERS, lol

Matter of fact can we please delete all of the Portland threats, getting tired of seeing their name on this board :) :) :)

Slick Pinkham
07-09-2012, 03:47 PM
And then we will find a way to combine Eric Gordon and Paul George into the best shooting guard in the NBA through DNA synthesis.

Those "brundlefly" experiments always have unexpected consequences.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1jxQo3a9tWk/T7uHp6u1SYI/AAAAAAAAATg/neUMze9BRZ0/s1600/brundlefly-127-image.jpg

BrownBearCoffee
07-09-2012, 03:47 PM
I thought we are only allowed one 5 year contract or are we allowed only one 5 year Max contract. Seems to conflict with Hills contract.

5 year rule only applies to extensions. You can have as many 5 year base contracts as you want.

tadscout
07-09-2012, 03:48 PM
I thought we are only allowed one 5 year contract or are we allowed only one 5 year Max contract. Seems to conflict with Hills contract.

I'm not 100% sure but I think only the 5 year rule applies to max deals.

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 03:49 PM
we have had almost 2 weeks to sign guys how long is Hibbert gonna wait a month or two :laugh:


3 days before matching would of gave us time to sign someone as well. I guess I just don't get if Hibbert had an agreement to sign with POR why he would ever break his word. Now if they never agreed than I get it but from all reports he had agreed.

My guess is that it will take more than 3 days for the dominoes to fall. 1st the Nets/Howard fiasco has to go, then Gordon's dilemma needs to get settled and then Mayo or whomever else the FO is after will decide what they want to do. Very little will be done before those things happen. I can imagine Hibbert and the FO had a conversation to this effect in the very recent past and that is why he may be waiting to sign their offer.

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 03:49 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/h-LbvFckptY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

troyc11a
07-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Considering he just got a monumental pay raise for 12/6. He is already grossly overpaid. $14mill a year for a player who cannot take over a game on either end? Average offense and average defense gets you $14mill????? God bless the big fella!!!!

purdue101
07-09-2012, 03:50 PM
We won't use all of it. Gotta look ahead to make sure the books are bearable in the coming seasons. But I could see them spending 6 or 7 of it.

I could see them using all of it this year assuming some is on a 1 year expiring deal such as Brand and we stay under the LT. By my math, if we give Hibbert and Hill 22M this year and 1M to Plumlee, we still have appx 11M under the LT for Mayo/Brand. That "might" be enough for both. We could also salary dump Hansbroughs $3M for a late pick and we would then definitely have enough. West/Brand/DJ expire next year and Danny the year after, so flexibility remains.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:51 PM
Considering he just got a monumental pay raise for 12/6. He is already grossly overpaid. $14mill a year for a player who cannot take over a game on either end? Average offense and average defense gets you $14mill????? God bless the big fella!!!!
Roy hasn't put up 12/6 since his 2nd year in the league

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:51 PM
Just posted by Hollinger:

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

Look... Wrong!!!! You Removed don't seem to understand, a handshake agreement means that it is NOT even humanly possible to change the contract... Doing so would cause the agent to be flogged and stoned... A handshake agreement is a contract that is blood bound by knack standards... / green...

Ahhhhhhh.... just passed gas

tadscout
07-09-2012, 03:51 PM
we have had almost 2 weeks to sign guys how long is Hibbert gonna wait a month or two :laugh:


3 days before matching would of gave us time to sign someone as well. I guess I just don't get if Hibbert had an agreement to sign with POR why he would ever break his word. Now if they never agreed than I get it but from all reports he had agreed.

Not if Mayo is waiting to see if the Suns offer him more after NO matches Gordon... we would have chance at him then.

cinotimz
07-09-2012, 03:52 PM
John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
If Pacers sign Hibbert w/o offer sheet, can tack on non-guaranteed 5th year and time signing to use rest of cap space first.

:cool:

Geez...where have I heard this option before....but surely this cant really be an option as David Falk would take such a tremendous hit in his credibility that such is just preposterous...

Wheres Bulletproof & Kstat now?

Anyway...as a couple of us have been saying all along. There never was any chance they wouldnt match or re-sign Hibbert. None. Everything was posturing and negotiations. Period.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:52 PM
Look... Wrong!!!! You idiots don't seem to understand, a handshake agreement means that it is NOT even humanly possible to change the contract... Doing so would cause the agent to be flogged and stoned... A handshake agreement is a contract that is blood bound by knack standards... / green...

Ahhhhhhh.... just passed gasDude, get over it

PacerPenguins
07-09-2012, 03:52 PM
Now i can watch our summer league game knowing Plumlee is the backup

ECKrueger
07-09-2012, 03:54 PM
Any one who thinks Roy isn't worth it has issues I think. He isn't a max player, but he's a max center, and I would definitely say he's worth $10-12. He's going to get a little more just for being a real C.

I'm not one bit disappointed in this deal.

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 03:55 PM
Now i can watch our summer league game knowing Plumlee is the backup
Well, you hope

tadscout
07-09-2012, 03:55 PM
Gasol did the same thing with HOU last year... they were going to offer him an offer sheet, but ended up taking the same deal with MEM w/o signing the sheet.

This is nothing new folks...

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:57 PM
so which is it?? If he signed wit POR would the cap hold jump or not?? This whole situation has me so confused.

As I understand it:

If he signs with Portland, we're free to add pieces until we match within 3 days. As soon as we match, that cap space goes bye-bye. We could add, but we'd have a 3 day window before it closes.

If he does not sign with Portland because we're extending an identical offer (or perhaps including a team option for year 5), the window stays open until he signs, which could easily be more than 3 days.

CableKC
07-09-2012, 03:58 PM
Yes, a couple.

The one that intrigues me the most is that if it ends up being the same amount but not necessarily the same deal, that puts us in a much better situation for now and the years to come. It allows us to structure the contract with Roy so that we can pay him in a way that will allow us to target other FA's or sign back our guys in the future and not be locked up financially with a crazy contract.

And it seems like if Roy wants this team to continue getting better then he would do it.
Does this mean that the Pacers will not technically sign the contract offer that the Blazers sent him....but that he will sign a newly minted contract from the Pacers that gives him the same amount of $$$ ( if not more $$$ ) but is structured favorably over the course of 5 seasons?

jdw
07-09-2012, 03:58 PM
Considering he just got a monumental pay raise for 12/6. He is already grossly overpaid. $14mill a year for a player who cannot take over a game on either end? Average offense and average defense gets you $14mill????? God bless the big fella!!!!

Welcome to the Association, where a competent 7-footer can command $14 million a year....

Seriously though, look at the emotion in this thread. Roy's value to the Pacers goes beyond his on-court performance. Worth what he's going to get paid? Time will tell, but the franchise's popularity in the community is greater now than it was two hours ago.

Hicks
07-09-2012, 03:59 PM
We don't know that yet.

Roy's not stupid, nor is his agent.

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 03:59 PM
Dude, get over it

Heisenberg. Don't be mad... This is a happy day!

spazzxb
07-09-2012, 04:00 PM
Look... Wrong!!!! You idiots don't seem to understand, a handshake agreement means that it is NOT even humanly possible to change the contract... Doing so would cause the agent to be flogged and stoned... A handshake agreement is a contract that is blood bound by knack standards... / green...

Ahhhhhhh.... just passed gas

As long as any changes are good for Roy, there is no reason they couldn't add something or tweak something to benefit the team.

Sookie
07-09-2012, 04:00 PM
Good.

This was a no brainer.

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 04:02 PM
Does this mean that the Pacers will not technically sign the contract offer that the Blazers sent him....but that he will sign a newly minted contract from the Pacers that gives him the same amount of $$$ ( if not more $$$ ) but is structured favorably over the course of 5 seasons?

Yes

joew8302
07-09-2012, 04:03 PM
I am like a few others. I would have liked to have made Portland suffer a bit and let Roy sign while waiting to match. It would hurt them in getting Kaman, resigning Batum and then not getting Roy.

kielbeze
07-09-2012, 04:04 PM
Hib-Hib PAYROY!!
Fixed!

fwpacerfan
07-09-2012, 04:04 PM
Gotta love Roy - he just posted this:

Roy Hibbert ‏@Hoya2aPacer
Taking a look back thru my time line. A lot of people r getting blocked!

Heisenberg
07-09-2012, 04:08 PM
Gotta love Roy - he just posted this:

Roy Hibbert ‏@Hoya2aPacer
Taking a look back thru my time line. A lot of people r getting blocked!
Hope I'm not one. Didn't say anything but positive stuff, but I was probably annoying there for a bit lol

Really?
07-09-2012, 04:09 PM
Does this mean that the Pacers will not technically sign the contract offer that the Blazers sent him....but that he will sign a newly minted contract from the Pacers that gives him the same amount of $$$ ( if not more $$$ ) but is structured favorably over the course of 5 seasons?

It is just all speculation on my part, but that could be an option that the Pacers and Roy's party use to continue to make the team better, I hope it is not the same lopsided contract that the Blazers offered.

PacerDude
07-09-2012, 04:10 PM
Good.

I didn't want to change my avatar.

Tom White
07-09-2012, 04:10 PM
Gotta love Roy - he just posted this:

Roy Hibbert ‏@Hoya2aPacer
Taking a look back thru my time line. A lot of people r getting Hib-Slapped!

Fixed.

*astrisk*
07-09-2012, 04:12 PM
As long as any changes are good for Roy, there is no reason they couldn't add something or tweak something to benefit the team.

You are right spazz...

This is what is about... Roy is a good guy who wants to get paid... As soon as Pacers agreed to Portland dollars.... He figured that maybe signing that deal was gonna hurt our chances at Free Agency signings... He wants to win and get paid. Not cashstrap us...

ilive4sports
07-09-2012, 04:18 PM
Good news. Sure, he is getting overpaid, but unfortunately thats just the nature of things. Trying to fill his spot would have been incredibly difficult. Roy means a lot to this franchise both on and off the court. Can you imagine no more Area 55? No more Big Roy going straight up as someone drives the lane? Just wouldn't be right.

I am curious to see how things go from here. I would imagine some other announcements are gonna happen soon, which is why they said they will match today. Its an odd day to "decide" to match (well not match but make the offer). They have either heard yes or no from guys they are looking to sign and are in the clear to be able to afford Hibbert's contract.

Coach
07-09-2012, 04:21 PM
Great job by the FO. Roy is the type of person that you want on the team. He is big, he is a talent and still has potential to improve, and he is a person you can build around. I am a big believer in team chemistry and this team has the right type of chemistry. Do we have a Lebron on our team no. But we continue to improve each year. You never know when it is your time to make that run. So many things have to go right to help. I'm sure Rose getting hurt helped Miami get through. Don't know who would have won that series had the Bulls been fully healthy.

troyc11a
07-09-2012, 04:22 PM
Welcome to the Association, where a competent 7-footer can command $14 million a year....

Seriously though, look at the emotion in this thread. Roy's value to the Pacers goes beyond his on-court performance. Worth what he's going to get paid? Time will tell, but the franchise's popularity in the community is greater now than it was two hours ago.

No doubt! Below average 7's just got $8mill. I dont see anyway that this team will seriously compete for a title paying $28mill to two decent players (Roy/DG). Teams are not winning with max contract Centers anymore. Dont see how they are going to win with a soft center being paid $14mill.

pacers74
07-09-2012, 04:23 PM
I am satisfied now, but I hope we sign sixth man. Oj might end up out of reach, so hopefully we at least go for C.Lee or someone else.

troyc11a
07-09-2012, 04:28 PM
Trading a 1st rd pick for Marshon Brooks sounds great! Now that they have paid elite money to 2 mediocre players (Roy/DG), there probably is not enough money to go and get someone who can take over a game.
Bittersweet about the signing. Glad to have Roy back but sad the Pacers will not contend for a title.

xIndyFan
07-09-2012, 04:31 PM
Does this mean that the Pacers will not technically sign the contract offer that the Blazers sent him....but that he will sign a newly minted contract from the Pacers that gives him the same amount of $$$ ( if not more $$$ ) but is structured favorably over the course of 5 seasons?


Yes

anything is possible, but probably not.

the tweets posted seemed to indicate roy will sign a contract exactly like the one portland offered. Roy evidently wants to get paid as much as he can, which is ok. The use of a 5th year at a lower rate just defeats the whole point of going to portland in the first place.

The contact Roy signs is exactly the same as the portland contract. The time he signs it is different. That timing allows the pacers to make deals with only the cap hold on the books instead of the whole $13.6M.

5_7_Clash
07-09-2012, 04:42 PM
anything is possible, but probably not.

the tweets posted seemed to indicate roy will sign a contract exactly like the one portland offered. Roy evidently wants to get paid as much as he can, which is ok. The use of a 5th year at a lower rate just defeats the whole point of going to portland in the first place.

The contact Roy signs is exactly the same as the portland contract. The time he signs it is different. That timing allows the pacers to make deals with only the cap hold on the books instead of the whole $13.6M.

Maybe we'll put in a fifth year non-guaranteed to make up for the original low-ball offer? I don't know. Just sayin...

5_7_Clash
07-09-2012, 04:46 PM
What if Pritchard suspected all along that the Blazers would offer Roy the max in order to screw with us so we low-balled him, let him get the offer from Portland, and then WA-POW! PRITCH SLAP!

(Note: This post is a completely humorous fabrication on my part and by no means represents anything close to reality. Please do not run with this like it's got legs. That is all.)

PRITCH SLAP!!!

troyc11a
07-09-2012, 04:50 PM
What if Pritchard suspected all along that the Blazers would offer Roy the max in order to screw with us so we low-balled him, let him get the offer from Portland, and then WA-POW! PRITCH SLAP!

(Note: This post is a completely humorous fabrication on my part and by no means represents anything close to reality. Please do not run with this like it's got legs. That is all.)

PRITCH SLAP!!!

I bet you are right on the fact that Pritchard didnt want to sign Roy outright. Now, instead of being on the hook for 5 years at real max money, He is on the hook for 4 years and less money per year. If Roy doesnt pan out, he can be let go and is less of a financial hit.

4/58 >>>>>>>>> 5/76

imawhat
07-09-2012, 04:53 PM
This is great news, imo, even if Roy's overpaid. I'm very happy he'll be back with the Pacers. It sets a very good precedent that we'll reward players who work hard and contribute to the city.

I'm very glad to be wrong on this one. I thought the writing was on the wall about our spending. It still may be to an extent, but I didn't think we'd keep Roy.